Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 4414

1 Friday, 31 August 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.

6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. It is a pleasure to see you at a

7 distance.

8 May I remind you, sir, that the affirmation you made at the

9 beginning of your evidence still applies.

10 Now Mr. Saxon.

11 MR. SAXON: We'll take that as a compliment, Your Honour.

12 JUDGE PARKER: It is intended to reflect upon the cosiness of our

13 normal courtroom.


15 [Witness answered through interpreter]

16 Re-examination by Mr. Saxon: [Continued]

17 Q. Mr. Toskovski, I'm not going to explore with you further the

18 extent of the injuries you that you observed on Atulla Qaili when you

19 interviewed him on the night of 12th, 13th August. However, I do want to

20 explore with you another aspect of Mr. Qaili's case that Ms. Residovic

21 raised with you yesterday.

22 At page 4376 of the transcript, Ms. Residovic explained to you

23 that, according to one witness, police officers came twice to the home of

24 the brother of Mr. Atulla Qaili, and Ms. Residovic asked you: "Would that

25 indicate that probably your colleagues from other departments were trying

Page 4415

1 to learn a bit more about the actual death of Atulla Qaili."

2 And you responded: "Yes, yes. It is correct. Other colleagues

3 and also us from the operative department in the Cair police station

4 repeatedly tried to gather information not only on Atulla but also on the

5 other persons, but the route to cooperation was closed by the villagers so

6 we had no opportunity to get at any information."

7 Do you recall that exchange yesterday with my colleague

8 Ms. Residovic?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Help us please understand something, Mr. Toskovski. How would the

11 police have located the brother of Atulla Qaili and the brother's address?

12 A. I don't understand your question. Could you please clarify it.

13 Q. Well, yesterday Ms. Residovic told you that police officers went

14 to the home of the brother of Atulla Qaili to ask him some questions. And

15 so I'm asking you how the police would have found the brother, where would

16 they have gone to look for an address, how would they have learned that

17 Mr. Qaili had a brother. Where does this information come from?

18 A. I don't know about this concrete case, but from various sources

19 such information can be obtained. In this concrete case, I do not know

20 from where the police obtained this information.

21 Q. Can you tell us, please, more specifically what you mean

22 by "various sources"? What kinds of sources, which sources?

23 A. These are, above all, the official records, then friends in the

24 village or in the city, and similar sources.

25 Q. When you say the "official records," again, please, just so that

Page 4416

1 we understand you, can you be more specific? What kind of official

2 records?

3 A. There's an ID database with information about all persons of age

4 who hold an ID in the country.

5 Q. And so as part of a police investigation they would look at such

6 databases. Is that correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Can you tell us, Mr. Toskovski, which of your colleagues went to

9 the house of Atulla Qaili's brother?

10 A. I don't know which colleagues went there.

11 Q. Do you know the specific reasons why your colleagues went to the

12 home of Atulla Qaili's brother?

13 A. I don't know the concrete reasons, but I presume that this was

14 about what we talked about earlier, to obtain some information in regards

15 to the case.

16 Q. Do you know the results of the visit? Do you know what was said

17 between your colleagues and Atulla Qaili's brother?

18 A. I have not seen this report, so I don't know.

19 Q. All right. You talked about how police repeatedly tried to gather

20 information about Atulla Qaili during this time. Did the police check the

21 medical records for Atulla Qaili at Skopje City Hospital, or speak with

22 the doctors who treated Mr. Qaili there?

23 A. I don't know this.

24 Q. Well, if this had happened, would you have received the

25 information to include it in your report?

Page 4417

1 A. I presume that this would have been so.

2 Q. Do you know whether the police reviewed the autopsy report for

3 Atulla Qaili? An autopsy was performed on him -- I can't be specific, it

4 was either the 13th or the 14th of August.

5 A. Police does not look at these results. These result from the

6 autopsy are submitted to the public prosecutor and the investigating

7 judge.

8 Q. Well, could the police speak with the doctors at the Forensic

9 Institute in Skopje who performed the autopsy?

10 A. I do not know, but I presume that for the unit for violent crimes

11 spoke with him about this. He should have done that.

12 Q. And if that was done, where would the record of such a

13 discussion be, where would we find that?

14 A. In the analytics sector.

15 Q. All right. I'm going to come back to the analytics sector in a

16 moment.

17 Yesterday at page 4368, you explained to my colleague that when

18 you submitted your criminal report about the ten arrested persons who were

19 being detained at Mirkovci police station, you were still waiting for the

20 results of paraffin glove tests to arrive. Do you recall that?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Can you recall the results of these paraffin glove tests for those

23 ten persons who were detained at Mirkovci?

24 A. I think that it was positive.

25 MR. SAXON: Can we show the witness, please, what is Exhibit P46,

Page 4418

1 page 45.

2 Q. This is a document dated the 14th of August, 2001. It's sent to

3 the SOI, Skopje, OKT. Can you tell us, Mr. Toskovski, what these

4 abbreviations mean, SOI Skopje, OKT?

5 A. SVR sector for criminal techniques.

6 Q. The subject is analysis of fire-arm residues related to your act

7 dated 12 August 2001. And this document from an expert named Silvija

8 Kunovska and the head officer, Miroslav Uslinkovski. Says that "Regarding

9 your letter, where you are looking for information whether there's a

10 presence of a gunpowder residue on the delivered pieces of foils related

11 to the withdrawn tests on the hands of the follows persons," and then we

12 see the names of the ten persons who were detained at Mirkovci, "We would

13 like to inform you that because of the existence of an immense

14 contamination (dirtiness of various natures) found at the delivered foils,

15 we are not able to perform the examination you have requested. Actually,

16 we cannot apply any proper methods in order to find out, that is, detect

17 whether there is presence of gunpowder particle on the hands of the

18 accused."

19 Can we agree, Mr. Toskovski, that, actually, there were no test

20 results confirming the presence of nitrates on the hands of the ten

21 persons who were detained at Mirkovci police station?

22 A. I would not agree with this. I received oral information that

23 most of the tests tested positive. I don't know whether all of these

24 persons are those from the criminal reports.

25 Q. These persons are the persons that are on the criminal report that

Page 4419

1 you at least began to draft on the 13th of August, persons who you

2 interviewed at Mirkovci police station on the night of 12 and 13 August.

3 A. I think there were additional investigations and that there was a

4 positive paraffin glove test.

5 Q. And where would such a positive result be located?

6 A. They were submitted to the public prosecutor.

7 Q. I see. At page 4386, yesterday you explained to Ms. Residovic

8 that between the 12th and 31st of August when you submitted your report

9 about the events in Ljuboten you and your colleagues were constantly

10 trying to find more information about what happened at Ljuboten.

11 My question for you is this: Do you recall whether you reviewed

12 the daily log-books of the Cair and Mirkovci police station to see if the

13 log-books might provide you with additional information?

14 A. The daily log-book in Mirkovci I have seen this one to see whether

15 such persons were registered, the persons that were detained in Mirkovci

16 were registered.

17 Q. Did you review this log-book to give you any indication of which

18 members of the Macedonian police might have been in Ljuboten on the 12th

19 of August?

20 A. I have not seen such an information.

21 Q. Do you recall whether you spoke with your superior, Ljube

22 Krstevski, about finding information about which police officers were in

23 Ljuboten on the 12th of August?

24 A. I did not have such a conversation with him.

25 Q. Do you know a man named Dragan Jakimovski?

Page 4420

1 A. I do not know such a person.

2 Q. Yesterday at page 4387 you told Ms. Residovic that you reviewed

3 the information that came into the analytical sector at Cair police

4 station with respect to the events in Ljuboten.

5 Help us understanding something, sir. After information comes

6 into the analytical sector at Cair police station, where does that

7 analytical sector send the information? Where does it go from Cair?

8 A. Such information go to the analytical centre of SVR Skopje, of the

9 city.

10 Q. And then from there, where would that information go?

11 A. In the analytical centre of the Ministry of Interior, on the level

12 of the state.

13 Q. I see. And that would be in Skopje?

14 A. You mean in the city?

15 Q. Yes.

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And at the level of the state, does the analytical sector maintain

18 an archive for all this information?

19 A. I don't understand your question.

20 Q. Well, when the state, the sector for analytics at the state level

21 receives all this information, does that department, that unit, keep the

22 information in some form, in some place?

23 A. I don't know their technology of work. I presume that this would

24 be so, but I'm not certain.

25 Q. After you finished interviewing the ten arrested persons on the

Page 4421

1 night of 12 to 13 August, about what time did you leave the Mirkovci

2 police station?

3 A. In the morning of the 13th? Around 3.00.

4 Q. Yesterday at page 4374 of the transcript you told my learned

5 colleague that if an investigative judge had information about

6 mistreatment of a detainee they would have undertaken an investigation.

7 Let me ask you this: Suppose an investigating judge had

8 information indicating that detainees might have been mistreated but did

9 not investigate further. What conclusion would you draw from that?

10 A. I would not comment the work of the investigating judge.

11 MR. SAXON: Your Honour, I have no further questions.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

13 Sir, you will be pleased to know that that concludes the questions

14 to be asked of you. The Chamber would thank you for your attendance here

15 in The Hague and the assistance you have been able to give and the court

16 officer will show you out.

17 Thank you, indeed.

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19 [The witness withdrew]

20 JUDGE PARKER: And would you bring in the next witness.

21 Mr. Dobbyn, good morning. The name of your next witness, please?

22 MR. DOBBYN: Good morning. Is Ejup Hamiti, H-a-m-i-t-i, formerly

23 known as Ejup Ametov.

24 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

25 [Trial Chamber confers]

Page 4422

1 [The witness entered court]

2 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

4 JUDGE PARKER: Would you please read aloud the affirmation on the

5 card that has been given to you.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


9 [Witness answered through interpreter].

10 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much. Please sit down.

11 Now Mr. Dobbyn has some questions for you.

12 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you, Your Honour.

13 Examination by Mr. Dobbyn:

14 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hamiti.

15 A. Good morning.

16 Q. Now, Mr. Hamiti, do you recall giving a statement to the Office of

17 the Prosecutor on 9 February 2003?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Do you recall that on 19 November 2005 the statement was certified

20 by an officer of the Tribunal?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. At that time, did you have an opportunity to read the statement in

23 your native language?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And did you have an opportunity to make any corrections and

Page 4423

1 additions to that statement?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Were those corrections and additions handwritten into your

4 statement and also included in an addendum to the statement?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And are you satisfied that the content of your statement with

7 these corrections and the addendum is accurate and correct?

8 A. Yes.

9 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honours, at this time I would seek to tender the

10 statement and the addendum which bears the ERN N002-1977 N002-1987,

11 pursuant to Rule 92 bis.

12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Mettraux.

13 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

14 Simply to have a clarification from Mr. Dobbyn on this point. We

15 had understood in the past that the Prosecution would not seek to tender

16 the comments made by the witness in relation to particular documents and

17 in this particular case it would seem that the comments are attached to

18 the addendum, so if Mr. Dobbyn could simply indicate that, in fact, they

19 only seek to tender the clarification and correction made by the witness

20 as opposed to the comments which he made about certain documents, I would

21 be grateful.

22 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honour, the addendum I am referring to does not

23 contain any comments to documents. The ERN of that particular addendum is

24 N002-1985 to N002-1986. It was made on 19 November 2005.

25 MR. METTRAUX: I'm grateful to the Prosecutor, Your Honour. We

Page 4424

1 have a different version, whether to connect it together. We're grateful,

2 thank you.

3 JUDGE PARKER: The statement with the addendum will be received.

4 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P417, Your Honours.

5 MR. DOBBYN: And at this time with Your Honour's permission I will

6 read a summary of that particular statement.

7 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

8 MR. DOBBYN: The witness, Ejup Hamiti, formerly known as Ejup

9 Ametov is a Ljuboten resident of Albanian ethnicity. Between 10 and 12

10 August 2001 Ljuboten was targeted with gun-fire and shelling. On 12

11 August the witness saw a neighbour's house and barn burning and a

12 neighbour himself injured during attack. The witness took cover by a

13 river, along with a large number of other villagers. The witness intended

14 to return to the village but was informed that the police had entered

15 Ljuboten and that it was unsafe to return. The witness then joined other

16 villagers fleeing towards Skopje.

17 As they approached a check-point on the road to Skopje, the

18 witness and others were approached by a policeman who abused them and then

19 signalled a number of Macedonian civilians who were gathered in the area

20 to beat the witness and other Ljuboten villagers. The witness and another

21 villager, Dilaver Fetahovski, started running away towards Radisani. Two

22 policemen ordered them to stop before opening fire on them. The witness

23 was hit in the forehead by a bullet and fell unconscious.

24 The witness was subsequently admitted to intensive care at Skopje

25 City Hospital where he under went emergency surgery. Once he regained

Page 4425

1 consciousness his legs and hands were tied as were those of the other

2 Ljuboten villagers he saw at the hospital. The witness was released from

3 hospital on 17 August 2001 but continues to suffer health problems as a

4 result of his head injury.

5 Q. Now, at this point Mr. Hamiti, I'm going to be asking you a few

6 questions and I would just ask that you listen very carefully to the

7 question and provide an answer to that question.

8 MR. DOBBYN: I would like to call 65 ter number 199.21. This is a

9 photograph which is also on page 15 of the court binder.

10 And, I'm sorry, before I forget, Your Honours, we have prepared

11 witness binders for Your Honours and also for the witness.

12 Q. Mr. Hamiti, in your statement you describe being beaten by

13 Macedonian civilians at a location near a police check-point on the way to

14 Skopje. On the photograph which is on the screen in front of you, can you

15 see where that check-point was located?

16 A. Yes. Right here.

17 Q. Sorry.

18 MR. DOBBYN: Could I ask for the usher's assistance at this point.

19 Q. Mr. Hamiti, with the assistance of the usher, would you be able to

20 draw a circle in the area where that check-point was located?

21 A. Approximately here.

22 Q. And could you draw the number 1 above that circle, please.

23 A. Inside or outside the circle?

24 Q. Outside the circle, please.

25 A. [Marks].

Page 4426

1 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, can you locate an area known

2 as Buzalak?

3 A. Yes. Buzalak of Ljuboten is here approximately; and down here you

4 have Buzalak of Radisani.

5 Q. And could you draw circles around those locations, please.

6 A. [Marks].

7 Q. I see you have drawn two circles. The one on the left, what is

8 the name of that area?

9 A. Buzalak of Radisani.

10 Q. And could you put the number 2 above that, please.

11 A. [Marks].

12 Q. Thank you. And the area to the right, what is that known as?

13 A. Buzalak of Ljuboten.

14 Q. And could you put the number 3 above that, please.

15 A. [Marks].

16 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, are you able to see a location

17 known as Kodra e Zajmit?

18 A. No.

19 Q. In relation to this photograph, can you tell us where Kodra e

20 Zajmit is located?

21 A. Kodra e Zajmit is on the left side of this road, 200 to 300 metres

22 on the left side of the road.

23 Q. Thank you. Could you draw an arrow in the direction of Kodra e

24 Zajmit, please.

25 A. [Marks].

Page 4427

1 Q. Thank you. And could you put the number 4 above that.

2 A. [Marks].

3 Q. And can you tell us, sir, that in relation to this photograph,

4 which direction is Skopje?

5 A. Behind the arrow which is on the road under number 4, this is the

6 road taking to Skopje.

7 Q. Thank you. And on this photograph, can you see the location where

8 you, your friend Dilaver Fetahovski and his father were beaten by the

9 Macedonian civilians?

10 A. No. It's more in the inside, here approximately.

11 Q. So am I correct in understanding that it's very close to that

12 location but not actually visible in the photo?

13 A. Yes. It's nearby.

14 Q. Thank you. Could you put the number 5 above that circle, please.

15 A. [Marks].

16 Q. Thank you.

17 MR. DOBBYN: At this time, Your Honour, I would seek to tender

18 this photograph.

19 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Dobbyn, as I've understood the evidence, both

20 the markings 2 and 3 are of Buzalak of Radisani. Is that correct?

21 MR. DOBBYN: My understanding, Your Honour, was that number 2 is

22 Buzalak of Radisani; number 3 is Buzalak of Ljuboten.

23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.

24 MR. DOBBYN: If I could just clarify.

25 Q. Is that correct, Mr. Hamiti?

Page 4428

1 A. Yes.

2 JUDGE PARKER: [Microphone not activated].

3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P418, Your Honours.

4 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you for your assistance, Mr. Usher.

5 Q. Mr. Hamiti, the policeman who signalled to the civilians to beat

6 you that you described in your statement, what was he wearing?

7 A. Police uniform.

8 Q. And could you describe that uniform?

9 A. Approximately, I don't remember very well, when I saw beating

10 them -- when started beating them, I lost my consciousness. I only saw

11 that they were wearing police uniforms. They had the patch writing

12 police. Afterwards, they started beating us, and this is it. Like this

13 uniform.

14 Q. Sorry, could you please not look at that photograph just yet,

15 Mr. Hamiti. We'll be coming to that at a certain time.

16 A. I'm sorry.

17 Q. Now, at this time I would like to call up Exhibit P00015. This is

18 also photograph A from page 23 of the Prosecution's Court binder. And it

19 is in tab 2 of this witness binder.

20 If could you please look at tab 2 of the binder, Mr. Hamiti.

21 Do you recognise this photograph?

22 A. Yes. They wore these kind of uniforms.

23 Q. Now, apart from the policeman who signalled to the Macedonian

24 civilians to beat you, did you see any other policemen that day, the 12th

25 of August, 2001?

Page 4429

1 A. Yes, we saw.

2 Q. And where did you see these other policemen?

3 A. While running towards Radisani I saw two policeman. Then I lost

4 my consciousness when I was hit by the bullet.

5 Q. Okay. Thank you. What were those policemen wearing?

6 A. They were too far away. I just could see that they were

7 policemen. They had automatic rifles as well.

8 Q. Before the 12th of August, 2001, had you passed through any

9 check-points around the village of Ljuboten?

10 A. Yes. We regularly went through the check-point I signalled

11 there. I was a student and I had to go regularly through that

12 check-point.

13 Q. And what uniforms, if any, did the policemen at these check-points

14 wear?

15 A. This kind of uniforms, the uniforms that are on the picture.

16 Q. Thank you.

17 MR. DOBBYN: At this point, Your Honours, I would like to show a

18 video-clip. This 65 ter number 309, the ERN is V000-3494. The clip I

19 would like to show starts at 1 minute 50 seconds and runs until 2 minutes

20 20 seconds.

21 Q. Mr. Hamiti, I would ask to you look very carefully at the screen.

22 A video-clip will be coming up and I would ask to you watch that very

23 carefully.

24 [Videotape played]


Page 4430

1 Q. Mr. Hamiti, do you know which date this video recording was made?

2 A. The day the events occurred, on August the 12th.

3 Q. And what does this video show?

4 A. The video shows us running away. Then it shows when they fired

5 upon us and when I was hit and when I fell down. The video shows this

6 very well.

7 Q. You say that "the video shows us running away." Who is the other

8 individual who's running down the hill with you?

9 A. Dilaver Fetahovski.

10 Q. Do you know whether or not there video has been shown on

11 Macedonian television?

12 A. I don't know.

13 MR. DOBBYN: Your Honours, at this time I would seek to tender

14 this evidence.

15 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

16 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P419, Your Honours.


18 Q. Mr. Hamiti, in the Albanian language version of your state it says

19 that you were shot on the right side of your forehead, while in the

20 English language version it says you were shot on the left side of your

21 forehead. Could you clarify this and tell us what side of the forehead

22 the bullet hit?

23 A. The left side.

24 Q. And, Mr. Hamiti, could I ask you to lift up the fringe of your

25 hair.

Page 4431

1 Thank you.

2 MR. DOBBYN: And, Your Honours, for the record I'd ask it to

3 reflect that is shown the witness has lifted his hair, revealing a, for

4 want of a better word, a crater on the left side of his forehead.

5 Q. Now, the injury that you've just shown us, Mr. Hamiti, was this

6 caused by the bullet that struck you on 12th August 2001?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. In your state you describe after being hit by the bullet falling

9 unconscious and then when regaining consciousness finding yourself in

10 Skopje City Hospital.

11 MR. DOBBYN: And at this time, I would like to call up exhibit

12 P 00192 and I'd like to see page 6 of this exhibit which is ERN

13 N000-5719. And there is also in tab 4 of the witness binder.

14 Q. So if you would like to look at the document in tab 4, Mr. Hamiti.

15 A. [In English] Okay.

16 Q. This is a medical report from Skopje City Hospital. Mr. Hamiti,

17 do you see your name on the upper left-hand corner?

18 A. [Interpretation] Yes, I do.

19 Q. And the first line states: "On 12 August 2001 Ejup Ametov was

20 admitted to the clinic as an urgent case with a head and brain injury

21 caused by a projectile." Is this an accurate description of when you were

22 admitted to the hospital and the reason for your admission?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And in your statement and in the addendum to your statement you

25 have described the health problems that you have suffered as a result of

Page 4432

1 your head injury. You've stated that you faint every now and then.

2 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Mettraux.

3 MR. METTRAUX: I apologise, Your Honour, I didn't mean to

4 interrupt the question but it seems that the document is not the correct

5 document on the screen. I simply wanted to indicate that to my colleague.

6 MR. DOBBYN: Thank you for pointing that out, Mr. Mettraux. I was

7 actually looking at the document I had in tab 4. Thank you.

8 I believe we need page 6 to be shown on the screen, page 6 of that

9 particular exhibit.

10 JUDGE PARKER: This exhibit has only one page, Mr. Dobbyn. You

11 may have a wrong number.

12 MR. DOBBYN: Sorry, Your Honour, I understand it's my fault. I

13 asked for Exhibit P192 to be shown. I should have been asking for P220.

14 I apologise.

15 As the witness has spoken to that document, I will move on.

16 Q. Mr. Hamiti, you have stated that you faint every now and then. Do

17 you have a medical diagnosis for this condition?

18 A. Yes. After the injury, I got epilepsy and I go regularly to

19 medical checks every second or third month. And I pay all the bills

20 myself.

21 Q. Have you been told whether or not your epilepsy is related to your

22 head injury?

23 A. Yes, I have. It was caused by the injury.

24 Q. Since the 12th of August, 2001 until today, have you ever been

25 contacted by anyone from the Macedonian police or the Macedonian

Page 4433

1 government and asked about what happened to you and what took place in

2 Ljuboten on 10 to 12 August 2001?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Have you taken any steps yourself against the Macedonian police or

5 the Macedonian government to have someone held accountable for what

6 happened to you?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. And could you please explain what you have done.

9 A. I have taken the state to court, because injustice was inflicted

10 to me.

11 Q. By saying you have taken the state to court, could you explain

12 further?

13 A. I filed charges against the state because on the photograph it can

14 be clearly seen that I was a civilian, and the documents, all the

15 documents of it, I have taken also from the hospital, everything comes up

16 very clearly and have I filed charges against them, and it is in judicial

17 procedure now.

18 Q. Thank you.

19 MR. DOBBYN: I have no further questions at this time, Your

20 Honour.

21 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Dobbyn, the document on the screen, I'm told is

22 not an exhibit. It's part of the 65 ter Exhibit 220. Do you want it to

23 become an exhibit in the trial?

24 MR. DOBBYN: Yes, Your Honour, I apologise, I do.

25 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.

Page 4434

1 Just this one page?

2 MR. DOBBYN: Yes.

3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P420, Your Honours.

4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Dobbyn.

5 Mr. Mettraux.

6 MR. METTRAUX: Thank you, Your Honour.

7 Cross-examination by Mr. Mettraux:

8 Q. Good morning, Mr. Hamiti. My name is Guenael Mettraux and

9 together with my colleague Edina Residovic I'm appearing on behalf of

10 Mr. Boskoski.

11 Mr. Hamiti, we have been given a copy of your statement already

12 and I do not wish to go over the entirety of the information which you

13 have provided to the Prosecution and the Court. There is a number of

14 matter which I would like to clarify about the circumstances in which you

15 received this grave wound.

16 Am I correct to understand that because of the circumstances at

17 the time, the fear and also the commotion around you, you were in a great

18 of stress. Is that correct?

19 A. When arrived at the check-point, I saw these civilians and when I

20 saw them beating the people with -- together with the policemen, this is

21 why I started running. I started running towards Radisani, but instead of

22 going -- of taking the road, I went to Radisani. When I started running,

23 I didn't know where I was going. This is the truth.

24 Q. Is that correct as you were running your friend Dilaver Fetahovski

25 was a few metres behind you, 20 or so metres behind you?

Page 4435

1 A. As I told you, I was very confused. I don't know whether Dilaver

2 was behind me. I can only speak of myself. I started running. I

3 couldn't even see whether there was someone running behind me. I don't

4 know how much you can understand me.

5 Q. Is that correct because of the state of excitement you were not

6 able at the time to see where the shot had come from, the shot that hit

7 you?

8 A. No, that's not correct. When I saw Dilaver being beaten up and

9 his father being beaten up, I was very frightened and confused. I started

10 running. I saw two policemen from my left side. When they started

11 shooting, I just heard the shot from automatic rifles. I couldn't hear

12 the bullet that hit me. I just fell on the ground and for two hours I

13 stayed there in this -- in this situation of coma.

14 Q. And these two policemen which you have just indicated, those are

15 the same policemen as you had mentioned to the Prosecution when you gave

16 your statement on the 9th of February of 2003. Is that correct?

17 A. Yes, they were.

18 Q. And in your statement, I believe you have indicated that those

19 people who you believe to be policemen were about 50 metres or so away

20 from you. Is that correct?

21 A. Approximately. As I told you, I cannot be precise. It was

22 approximately 50 metres. As I told you, I was very confused. I could

23 only see that they were policemen and they were carrying automatic rifles.

24 Q. I suppose that you will agree with me that Dilaver was running

25 behind you would also have been in a position to see these two men. Is

Page 4436

1 that correct?

2 A. Sir, I was telling you about myself. I couldn't see Dilaver and I

3 was in a state of coma for two hours. I'm describing to you my state.

4 And then the ambulance came and took me to the hospital in the town and I

5 was -- and I underwent an urgent surgery.

6 Q. Perhaps I can ask it to you that way. Was there any impediment or

7 any reason why Dilaver would not have seen these two policemen, in so far

8 as can you say?

9 A. I apologise, but I cannot speak in Dilaver's name. I can only

10 speak in my own name and describe to you my state and what I went

11 through. If you have questions for him, maybe it's better to ask him

12 directly.

13 Q. Is that correct, sir, that the reason you believed that these two

14 men were police officers were because of their uniforms, the uniforms they

15 were wearing. Is that correct?

16 A. You could see their uniforms very well. And I saw them with

17 automatic rifles. I don't know how clear I am, but they had automatic

18 rifles.

19 Q. Is that also correct that on that day you've indicated to the

20 Prosecution that you only saw one man wearing what you believe to be a

21 police patch and that was in the vicinity of the check-point? Is that

22 what you told the Prosecutor?

23 A. Just a moment, please. I will explain in detail.

24 This one policeman, this is the one who took us from Buzalak of

25 Radisani up to the Macedonian civilians. This is the one -- when we were

Page 4437

1 running in the direction of Radisani, these two persons were other

2 policemen, not the same with the one I mentioned before.

3 Q. That's correct, sir, that this is the way the matter was

4 understood as well.

5 Is that correct then that you have indicated to the Prosecution

6 that you only saw one man wearing a patch which you identified as a police

7 patch or police insignia and that was in the vicinity of the check-point?

8 In other words, you did not identify any patches or insignia on the two

9 other policemen which were by your side as you were running. Is that

10 correct?

11 A. They were far, but I saw them carrying automatic rifle, and you

12 can tell police uniforms. The police that was with us at Buzalak of

13 Radisani, he was there and he was also wearing automatic rifle, but his

14 patch, I could see, and "policija" was written on his patch.

15 Q. Is that correct, sir, that you were interviewed by representative

16 of the Prosecution earlier that year in June, in the village of Ljuboten.

17 Is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And do you recall the representative of the Prosecution showing

20 you a number of pictures during that interview?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. And do you recall that one of the pictures that were shown to you

23 were pictures of patches, police patches. Do you recall that?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And do you recall saying this to the Prosecution upon being shown

Page 4438

1 those pictures: "I can see these are police patches but I cannot be

2 certain that these are the same as the patch I saw on the policeman

3 uniform on the day I was shot."

4 Do you recall that?

5 A. Just a moment, sir. These two policemen that I mentioned, they

6 were far, quite far, 50 to 100 metres far, and I could not see their

7 uniforms clearly, but the policeman who was with us previously, he was

8 very near, and I could see his patch and what was written on it.

9 Q. And is that correct, sir, that in fact are you not certain whether

10 the two men who you saw by your side were policemen or members of the

11 Macedonian army. Is that correct?

12 A. I couldn't tell whether they were soldiers or policemen, but they

13 were wearing uniforms and I described you my state of mind when I started

14 running. I was completely confused and out of myself and I couldn't tell

15 clearly.

16 Q. Sir, do you know a person named Saqir Fetahovski, do you know him?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And Mr. Fetahovski is a fellow villager. Is that correct?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And on that day he was also present with you near to the

21 check-points which you have indicated earlier today. Is that right?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And he would have also seen you run away from this check-point.

24 Is that correct?

25 A. I don't know. Ask him.

Page 4439

1 Q. If Mr. Fetahovski were to say that the people whom you saw shoot

2 in your directions were soldiers and not police officers, you would have

3 no reason to disbelieve him. Is that correct?

4 A. I told you that I wasn't quite conscious about my deeds. I could

5 only see them wearing uniforms, police uniforms. Maybe he was in position

6 to see them better than me, but I doubt, because he was quite severely

7 beaten too.

8 Q. Is that correct, sir, however, that are you not certain that the

9 shot that hit you had in fact come from either of these two men. Is that

10 correct?

11 A. I don't know precisely who fired, but I could hear the sound of

12 the shot. I don't know how clear I am. I could hear the shot coming from

13 the automatic rifle.

14 Q. But you are not certain that the shot in question came from either

15 of those two persons. You did not have the time to look whether it could

16 have came from elsewhere. Is that correct?

17 A. Of course.

18 MR. METTRAUX: Well, Your Honour, I think in that case, I have no

19 further question.

20 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Mettraux.

21 Mr. Apostolski.

22 MR. METTRAUX: And I'm grateful to the witness. Thank you.

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

24 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours, good

25 morning, Witness.

Page 4440

1 Cross-examination by Mr. Apostolski:

2 Q. [Interpretation] My name is Antonio Apostolski, and with my

3 colleague Jasmina Zivkovic, I appear for Mr. Johan Tarculovski.

4 Is it correct that you completed your primary education in your

5 own village, Ljuboten, and in your mother tongue, in Albanian?

6 A. Yes, that's correct.

7 Q. After that you completed your secondary education in Skopje?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. When you gave your statement to the Office of the Prosecutor, you

10 were a student at the pedagogy faculty in Skopje. Is that correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Can you please tell me when did you enrol in this faculty?

13 A. Yes. I enrolled in the academic year 2000/2001.

14 Q. Is it correct that you carried out your studies in the Albanian

15 language?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Thank you.

18 You said that you passed by several check-points. Is it correct

19 that there was a check-point on the last bus-stop of bus number 57 in

20 Radisani neighbourhood?

21 A. Excuse me, sir, but I'm not speaking about Radisani. I'm talking

22 here about the road that links Ljuboten and Skopje. On this road, there

23 was only one check-point and this check-point was located at Cezma e

24 Rizvanit, and you may very well now about this location because this

25 check-point was set up well ahead before the Ljuboten events.

Page 4441

1 Q. I'm not asking you about your statement but in general,

2 considering the fact that you travelled a lot in that region, is it

3 correct that there was a check-point at the last bus-stop of bus number 57

4 at Radisani neighbourhood? Are you familiar with this fact?

5 A. I went by car through our road. I didn't travel on bus and that's

6 why I am not familiar where this check-point was. I'm not ...

7 Q. Witness, I'm asking in general terms, not about the concrete

8 dates. I'm asking you about the whole period, July, August, since you

9 travelled frequently from Ljuboten to Skopje. During this period of time,

10 did you see this check-point?

11 A. And I think I'm explaining it very well. Maybe you are familiar

12 with the road that links Ljuboten and Skopje, not the road, the old road

13 that links Ljuboten with Skopje through Ljubanci. And this was the only

14 check-point that I saw on that road, and we regularly passed by this

15 check-point. I never went to Radishan and I always travelled by car. I

16 don't know how clear I am, and I'm speaking about the year 2001.

17 Q. Okay. Thank you.

18 MR. APOSTOLSKI: [Interpretation] I have no further questions.

19 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Apostolski.

20 Mr. Dobbyn.

21 MR. DOBBYN: Just briefly, Your Honours.

22 Re-examination by Mr. Dobbyn:

23 Q. Mr. Hamiti, you described the check-point on the road between

24 Ljuboten and Skopje. And what name did you refer to that check-point by?

25 A. We used to call the check-point Cezma e Rizvanit. There is a water

Page 4442

1 fountain nearby called Cezma e Rizvanit. And that's how we called this

2 check-point.

3 Q. And is this the same check-point that was in the photo earlier

4 that you were approaching on the 12th of August when you were beaten?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. So am I correct in my understanding that this check-point is

7 located in an area which is between Buzalak and between Kodra e Zajmit?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. And you also described earlier that you passed through this

10 check-point on several occasions before the 12th of August as you

11 travelled to Skopje for school.

12 A. Yes, I was a student, and I regularly attended school.

13 THE INTERPRETER: Lectures, correction.


15 Q. On these occasions when you passed through the check-point, who

16 manned the check-point? Was it police or was it army?

17 A. The police. The police and reservists that were there.

18 Q. Thank you.

19 MR. DOBBYN: I have no further questions, Your Honour.

20 Q. Thank you for your time, Mr. Hamiti.

21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Dobbyn.

22 You will be pleased to know, Mr. Hamiti, that that concludes the

23 questions that will be asked of you. The Chamber is very grateful indeed

24 for your assistance, for the trouble you've been to come here and give

25 evidence, and you are now, of course, able to leave and return to your

Page 4443

1 home and normal activities.

2 We will be adjourning shortly and then the court officer will show

3 you out.

4 So thank you, indeed.

5 If there is no other matter.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

7 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Saxon is standing with purpose.

8 MR. SAXON: The only purpose, Your Honour, is to simply confirm

9 that the Prosecution did not anticipate that this witness would go so

10 quickly and therefore we do not have another witness to call this morning.

11 JUDGE PARKER: We anticipated that from what you had said,

12 Mr. Saxon, and we therefore continue on Monday.

13 The Monday session, I believe, has been moved to the afternoon at

14 2.15, in case everybody had not caught up with that.

15 So we adjourn now and resume on Monday.

16 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 10.17 a.m.,

17 to be reconvened on Monday, the 3rd day of September,

18 2007, at 2.15 p.m.