1 Monday, 22 April 2002
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam Registrar, could you call the case, please.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,
7 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you hear
9 me in a language that you can understand?
10 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your
11 Honours. Yes, I can hear you and understand you.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.
13 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a
14 language that you can understand?
15 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
16 I can hear in a language I can understand.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.
18 Appearances for the Prosecution.
19 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, Joanna Korner and Ann Sutherland for the
20 Prosecution. Ann Sutherland is not well today because she's temporarily
21 playing the part of case manager in the absence of Ms. Gustin.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.
23 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours, and good Monday to
25 you. I'm John Ackerman, I'm with Tania Radosavljevic and Marela Maglov,
1 who I'd like to introduce to the Chamber. Thank you.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Ackerman. Good afternoon to you.
3 Appearance for General Talic.
4 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours, and
5 Mr. President. Michel Pitron and Natasha Fauveau for General Talic.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon.
7 Yes, Mr. Ackerman.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honours, I must make a correction. I am --
9 Marela Maglov got married. Her name is Marela Jevtovic. And I keep
10 forgetting that.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Ms. Korner.
12 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, then very briefly before we go back to
13 the witness and those in the public gallery are told that they can't watch
15 JUDGE AGIUS: This is what I was telling the guard. You know, I
16 mean -- it's a pity. I see so many students, I presume, here in the
17 gallery. And very soon you will see curtains dropping right in front of
18 your faces, and you won't be able to follow anything. You came in the
19 wrong courtroom today.
20 Yes, Ms. Korner.
21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the first matter is this: Witness 7.35.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
23 MS. KORNER: That caused so much trouble last week. The reality
24 is clearly he can't be called. Mr. Koumjian, I know, will make an
25 application today for release of the transcripts. But my clear
1 understanding is that he has to return to his home the day after tomorrow,
2 and therefore it's quite impossible to call him. The likelihood is we
3 shall be making an application to tender his evidence under Rule 92 in
4 full with no cross-examination, but that will be discussed at a later
5 stage. But there is absolutely nothing else we can do about that.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you, Ms. Korner, and we've taken note
7 of what you've just said.
8 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the other matter is simply this, and it
9 was the query I raised last Friday about May the 17th. We do need to
10 organise our witnesses, and I wonder whether Your Honour had --
11 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I tried to see Judge Schomburg this morning,
12 but we just couldn't tie up.
13 MS. KORNER: I don't think it's so much Judge Schomburg as --
14 JUDGE AGIUS: I know. But in other words, since we are talking of
15 Trial Chamber II, in any case, we are trying to make sure that there will
16 be a standard -- we adopt the same standard measures. I mean, in other
17 words, it's not ...
18 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I think there's a slight confusion. All
19 I was asking was whether this Court will be sitting on May the 17th. Do
20 you remember it appeared on the Court calender as not sitting. And Your
21 Honour was going to make some inquiries --
22 JUDGE AGIUS: We did, actually, make an inquiry.
23 MS. KORNER: Yes.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: That is a decision that has been taken that there
25 will be no sittings - any Chamber - on May the 17th, for certain internal
1 reasons that I don't think I am allowed to divulge.
2 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, that's why I was --
3 JUDGE AGIUS: However, there is a slight possibility that some
4 Chambers may actually decide to sit. And this is what I -- I want to make
5 sure of.
6 MS. KORNER: Oh, I see. Well, Your Honour, may I say that it
7 would assist from the point of view of trying to organise witnesses if
8 when Your Honours made a decision, you could let us know as soon as --
9 possibly --
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Actually, I had thought that I would be in a
11 position to tell you today.
12 MS. KORNER: Oh.
13 JUDGE AGIUS: But I missed Judge Schomburg this morning. I had
14 other things to do. And -- but you will certainly -- I will certainly let
15 you know by tomorrow morning.
16 MS. KORNER: I'm very grateful, Your Honour.
17 MS. SUTHERLAND: If not today, then by the end of the sitting.
18 MS. KORNER: And can I confirm that we're sitting in the -- was
19 it --
20 JUDGE AGIUS: No. Tomorrow we are sitting at half past 1.00.
21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we all got a message saying on Tuesday
22 we were sitting in the morning.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, you had that correct too. There were two
25 MS. KORNER: And we never got the correction.
1 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I think I had told you that in the morning, we
2 are --
3 MS. KORNER: Yes.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: The three of us are going to attend the plenary.
5 MS. KORNER: Yes.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: And that we will miss the plenary, then, in the
7 afternoon to concentrate on the sitting. But the sitting will start at
8 1.30, instead of 2.15. And if we can start at 1.15, we will start at
9 1.15, we'll let you know. And hopefully we will finish by -- by quarter
10 to 6.00 or something like that.
11 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I'm grateful. Obviously I know we
12 discussed it with you, and then after the Court rose we received a message
13 -- you're sitting in the morning.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: You are right. Because I received it too. But it
15 was corrected.
16 MS. KORNER: It wasn't corrected to us, I'm afraid. It may have
17 been corrected to other people.
18 However, Your Honour, I'm grateful. So it's 1.15, 1.30 tomorrow.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. One last thing, Ms. Korner. Now, that 7.35
20 will not be giving evidence this week, as planned for tomorrow, I hope
21 that you have made the necessary adjustments to your schedule.
22 MS. KORNER: Yes, we have.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: So we don't waste any time.
24 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we -- subject to a few tidying up
25 matters, which I need to discuss because effectively this witness
1 completes the Banja Luka witness evidence. The witness who will start
2 thereafter is 7.77. I have various documents relating -- in other words,
3 a list of the documents. I know that Your Honour said that you've been
4 given this overall rather confusing list, which I'm going to hand to Your
5 Honours' legal officer at the break and discuss. But there are copies of
6 everything for Your Honours, and I've handed them to the Defence already.
7 And he's the witness, Your Honour, who will take a lengthy
8 time, but he's really effectively the last of the major lengthy witnesses
9 in every municipality and will cover effectively nearly all the events and
10 the documents. After that, the -- we anticipate the witnesses will become
11 much, much shorter.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Good. There is the other problem that you had
13 mentioned to me last week or the week before about that particular
14 witness, whoever, young age, supposedly witnessed a murder in a garage.
15 What's the position: I have read -- I have gone through the response of
16 General Talic relative to your application to have the statement
17 admitted under 92.
18 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the situation at present is that there
19 are two members of the family supposed to be testifying live before this
20 Chamber, and one Rule 92. And there was no objection to the Rule 92
21 witness, subject to somebody coming along to give evidence. The situation
22 at the moment is that we are making attempts, which we don't know yet will
23 be successful or not, to persuade them. Although we understand that they
24 do not wish to give evidence, that in the light of things, we would wish
25 them to give evidence. I don't know what the upshot would be, but we'll
1 let Your Honour know.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you, Ms. Korner. I think we can now
3 go into closed session before we bring the witness in.
4 [Closed session]
12 Pages 4723-4793 – redacted – closed session
18 [Open session]
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
20 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, Mr. Inayat has, as Your Honour knows --
21 because I think you've been given copies -- done his usual stroll through
22 the exhibits. Madam Fauveau delivered this morning -- no, yesterday, I
23 think -- no? Monday? Tuesday? Yes. Whatever day. This morning. I've
24 lost it now -- a letter in which she listed again the exhibits to which
25 objection is taken to the admissibility, based on the lack of signature or
1 stamp. The only question I have is whether Your Honour wishes me to
2 formally put Mr. Inayat back into the witness box to confirm his schedule
3 and then for me to apply to admit, or whether we can simply dispense with
4 that. It's really a matter for the Trial Chamber and Defence counsel.
5 Thank you.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.
7 I think we can proceed as we proceeded -- as we did last time and
8 we dispensed from --
9 MS. KORNER: No, we didn't, actually, Your Honour. We called
11 JUDGE AGIUS: That was the first time. The second time he did,
12 but we didn't go through the same exercise as before.
13 MS. KORNER: No. That's what I mean. It was very short.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, exactly. I mean -- that's what I mean. He may
15 just come -- show up, confirm, and practically exit --
16 MS. KORNER: Well, that's why I'm asking whether Your Honour wants
17 that done. Because if so, he'll come in before --
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I think so. I think I don't even need to ask the
19 Defence for that. I mean, it's safer. It's safer.
20 MS. KORNER: Yes. Very well.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.
22 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I really
23 don't see any use in bringing this witness once again, because the
24 objections I have made are ones that he cannot respond to. We are not
25 contesting that the exhibits were found where he says they were found and
1 that they were put on the list given by the Prosecutor. What we are
2 contesting is that those sources are not reliable sources where they were
3 found. The places where they were found are not reliable places.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: So at that point, Ms. Korner, if you don't want to
5 bring Mr. Inayat forward, you might as well decide to do that. So it's up
6 to you.
7 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, I'm content, if -- clearly
8 Madam Fauveau is content -- Mr. Ackerman hasn't troubled this time round.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: No. But Mr. Ackerman has never raised the issue
10 before. I mean --
11 MS. KORNER: He has actually, but very early on he raised the
13 JUDGE AGIUS: No, no, no. Not after it was settled -- not after
14 Mr. Inayat was produced the first time.
15 MS. KORNER: No.
16 Well, in that case, Your Honour, I don't see a necessity. As I
17 say, Judge Draganovic is going to be such a long witness we might as well
18 get on with him. So in that case, Your Honour --
19 JUDGE AGIUS: And you just mentioned his name, and I think --
20 MS. KORNER: He's not a protected witness.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: He's not protected. I see. Okay. Yes, you are
22 right. He's not a protected witness.
23 MS. KORNER: No.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: You don't insist on Mr. Inayat being here, Mr.
25 Ackerman No?
1 MR. ACKERMAN: I rather enjoy his presence, Your Honour, but I
2 don't need him.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Exactly.
4 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, then tomorrow there are a few
5 matters I want to move on with before we move on to Sanski Most. But I'll
6 apply to Your Honour to formally admit the two folders as exhibits.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Tomorrow the sitting will start at 1.30 here,
8 in Courtroom III. Okay? And the Sanski Most documents, we'll have them
9 admitted tomorrow.
10 MS. KORNER: Yes.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.
12 MS. KORNER: Yes, thank you.
13 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, the schedule says Courtroom I. Is it
14 Courtroom III?
15 JUDGE AGIUS: It is Courtroom III, yes. Right, exactly.
16 MR. ACKERMAN: All right.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and wish you good evening, and we'll
18 meet tomorrow.
19 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned
20 at 6.30 p.m., to be reconvened on Tuesday,
21 the 23rd day of April, 2002, at 1.30 p.m.