Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 4716

1 Monday, 22 April 2002

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 2.19 p.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Madam Registrar, could you call the case, please.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. This is the case number,

7 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you hear

9 me in a language that you can understand?

10 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your

11 Honours. Yes, I can hear you and understand you.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

13 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a

14 language that you can understand?

15 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

16 I can hear in a language I can understand.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. You may sit down.

18 Appearances for the Prosecution.

19 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, Joanna Korner and Ann Sutherland for the

20 Prosecution. Ann Sutherland is not well today because she's temporarily

21 playing the part of case manager in the absence of Ms. Gustin.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.

23 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.

24 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours, and good Monday to

25 you. I'm John Ackerman, I'm with Tania Radosavljevic and Marela Maglov,

Page 4717

1 who I'd like to introduce to the Chamber. Thank you.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, Mr. Ackerman. Good afternoon to you.

3 Appearance for General Talic.

4 MR. PITRON: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours, and

5 Mr. President. Michel Pitron and Natasha Fauveau for General Talic.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon.

7 Yes, Mr. Ackerman.

8 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honours, I must make a correction. I am --

9 Marela Maglov got married. Her name is Marela Jevtovic. And I keep

10 forgetting that.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Ms. Korner.

12 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, then very briefly before we go back to

13 the witness and those in the public gallery are told that they can't watch

14 anything.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: This is what I was telling the guard. You know, I

16 mean -- it's a pity. I see so many students, I presume, here in the

17 gallery. And very soon you will see curtains dropping right in front of

18 your faces, and you won't be able to follow anything. You came in the

19 wrong courtroom today.

20 Yes, Ms. Korner.

21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the first matter is this: Witness 7.35.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

23 MS. KORNER: That caused so much trouble last week. The reality

24 is clearly he can't be called. Mr. Koumjian, I know, will make an

25 application today for release of the transcripts. But my clear

Page 4718

1 understanding is that he has to return to his home the day after tomorrow,

2 and therefore it's quite impossible to call him. The likelihood is we

3 shall be making an application to tender his evidence under Rule 92 in

4 full with no cross-examination, but that will be discussed at a later

5 stage. But there is absolutely nothing else we can do about that.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you, Ms. Korner, and we've taken note

7 of what you've just said.

8 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the other matter is simply this, and it

9 was the query I raised last Friday about May the 17th. We do need to

10 organise our witnesses, and I wonder whether Your Honour had --

11 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I tried to see Judge Schomburg this morning,

12 but we just couldn't tie up.

13 MS. KORNER: I don't think it's so much Judge Schomburg as --

14 JUDGE AGIUS: I know. But in other words, since we are talking of

15 Trial Chamber II, in any case, we are trying to make sure that there will

16 be a standard -- we adopt the same standard measures. I mean, in other

17 words, it's not ...

18 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I think there's a slight confusion. All

19 I was asking was whether this Court will be sitting on May the 17th. Do

20 you remember it appeared on the Court calender as not sitting. And Your

21 Honour was going to make some inquiries --

22 JUDGE AGIUS: We did, actually, make an inquiry.

23 MS. KORNER: Yes.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: That is a decision that has been taken that there

25 will be no sittings - any Chamber - on May the 17th, for certain internal

Page 4719

1 reasons that I don't think I am allowed to divulge.

2 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, that's why I was --

3 JUDGE AGIUS: However, there is a slight possibility that some

4 Chambers may actually decide to sit. And this is what I -- I want to make

5 sure of.

6 MS. KORNER: Oh, I see. Well, Your Honour, may I say that it

7 would assist from the point of view of trying to organise witnesses if

8 when Your Honours made a decision, you could let us know as soon as --

9 possibly --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Actually, I had thought that I would be in a

11 position to tell you today.

12 MS. KORNER: Oh.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: But I missed Judge Schomburg this morning. I had

14 other things to do. And -- but you will certainly -- I will certainly let

15 you know by tomorrow morning.

16 MS. KORNER: I'm very grateful, Your Honour.

17 MS. SUTHERLAND: If not today, then by the end of the sitting.

18 MS. KORNER: And can I confirm that we're sitting in the -- was

19 it --

20 JUDGE AGIUS: No. Tomorrow we are sitting at half past 1.00.

21 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we all got a message saying on Tuesday

22 we were sitting in the morning.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: Well, you had that correct too. There were two

24 messages.

25 MS. KORNER: And we never got the correction.

Page 4720

1 JUDGE AGIUS: No. I think I had told you that in the morning, we

2 are --

3 MS. KORNER: Yes.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: The three of us are going to attend the plenary.

5 MS. KORNER: Yes.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: And that we will miss the plenary, then, in the

7 afternoon to concentrate on the sitting. But the sitting will start at

8 1.30, instead of 2.15. And if we can start at 1.15, we will start at

9 1.15, we'll let you know. And hopefully we will finish by -- by quarter

10 to 6.00 or something like that.

11 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I'm grateful. Obviously I know we

12 discussed it with you, and then after the Court rose we received a message

13 -- you're sitting in the morning.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: You are right. Because I received it too. But it

15 was corrected.

16 MS. KORNER: It wasn't corrected to us, I'm afraid. It may have

17 been corrected to other people.

18 However, Your Honour, I'm grateful. So it's 1.15, 1.30 tomorrow.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. One last thing, Ms. Korner. Now, that 7.35

20 will not be giving evidence this week, as planned for tomorrow, I hope

21 that you have made the necessary adjustments to your schedule.

22 MS. KORNER: Yes, we have.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: So we don't waste any time.

24 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, we -- subject to a few tidying up

25 matters, which I need to discuss because effectively this witness

Page 4721

1 completes the Banja Luka witness evidence. The witness who will start

2 thereafter is 7.77. I have various documents relating -- in other words,

3 a list of the documents. I know that Your Honour said that you've been

4 given this overall rather confusing list, which I'm going to hand to Your

5 Honours' legal officer at the break and discuss. But there are copies of

6 everything for Your Honours, and I've handed them to the Defence already.

7 And he's the witness, Your Honour, who will take a lengthy

8 time, but he's really effectively the last of the major lengthy witnesses

9 in every municipality and will cover effectively nearly all the events and

10 the documents. After that, the -- we anticipate the witnesses will become

11 much, much shorter.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Good. There is the other problem that you had

13 mentioned to me last week or the week before about that particular

14 witness, whoever, young age, supposedly witnessed a murder in a garage.

15 What's the position: I have read -- I have gone through the response of

16 General Talic relative to your application to have the statement

17 admitted under 92.

18 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the situation at present is that there

19 are two members of the family supposed to be testifying live before this

20 Chamber, and one Rule 92. And there was no objection to the Rule 92

21 witness, subject to somebody coming along to give evidence. The situation

22 at the moment is that we are making attempts, which we don't know yet will

23 be successful or not, to persuade them. Although we understand that they

24 do not wish to give evidence, that in the light of things, we would wish

25 them to give evidence. I don't know what the upshot would be, but we'll

Page 4722

1 let Your Honour know.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I thank you, Ms. Korner. I think we can now

3 go into closed session before we bring the witness in.

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Page 4794

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18 [Open session]

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

20 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, Mr. Inayat has, as Your Honour knows --

21 because I think you've been given copies -- done his usual stroll through

22 the exhibits. Madam Fauveau delivered this morning -- no, yesterday, I

23 think -- no? Monday? Tuesday? Yes. Whatever day. This morning. I've

24 lost it now -- a letter in which she listed again the exhibits to which

25 objection is taken to the admissibility, based on the lack of signature or

Page 4795

1 stamp. The only question I have is whether Your Honour wishes me to

2 formally put Mr. Inayat back into the witness box to confirm his schedule

3 and then for me to apply to admit, or whether we can simply dispense with

4 that. It's really a matter for the Trial Chamber and Defence counsel.

5 Thank you.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.

7 I think we can proceed as we proceeded -- as we did last time and

8 we dispensed from --

9 MS. KORNER: No, we didn't, actually, Your Honour. We called

10 him.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: That was the first time. The second time he did,

12 but we didn't go through the same exercise as before.

13 MS. KORNER: No. That's what I mean. It was very short.

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, exactly. I mean -- that's what I mean. He may

15 just come -- show up, confirm, and practically exit --

16 MS. KORNER: Well, that's why I'm asking whether Your Honour wants

17 that done. Because if so, he'll come in before --

18 JUDGE AGIUS: I think so. I think I don't even need to ask the

19 Defence for that. I mean, it's safer. It's safer.

20 MS. KORNER: Yes. Very well.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.

22 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I really

23 don't see any use in bringing this witness once again, because the

24 objections I have made are ones that he cannot respond to. We are not

25 contesting that the exhibits were found where he says they were found and

Page 4796

1 that they were put on the list given by the Prosecutor. What we are

2 contesting is that those sources are not reliable sources where they were

3 found. The places where they were found are not reliable places.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: So at that point, Ms. Korner, if you don't want to

5 bring Mr. Inayat forward, you might as well decide to do that. So it's up

6 to you.

7 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, I'm content, if -- clearly

8 Madam Fauveau is content -- Mr. Ackerman hasn't troubled this time round.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: No. But Mr. Ackerman has never raised the issue

10 before. I mean --

11 MS. KORNER: He has actually, but very early on he raised the

12 issue.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: No, no, no. Not after it was settled -- not after

14 Mr. Inayat was produced the first time.

15 MS. KORNER: No.

16 Well, in that case, Your Honour, I don't see a necessity. As I

17 say, Judge Draganovic is going to be such a long witness we might as well

18 get on with him. So in that case, Your Honour --

19 JUDGE AGIUS: And you just mentioned his name, and I think --

20 MS. KORNER: He's not a protected witness.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: He's not protected. I see. Okay. Yes, you are

22 right. He's not a protected witness.

23 MS. KORNER: No.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: You don't insist on Mr. Inayat being here, Mr.

25 Ackerman No?

Page 4797

1 MR. ACKERMAN: I rather enjoy his presence, Your Honour, but I

2 don't need him.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Exactly.

4 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, then tomorrow there are a few

5 matters I want to move on with before we move on to Sanski Most. But I'll

6 apply to Your Honour to formally admit the two folders as exhibits.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Tomorrow the sitting will start at 1.30 here,

8 in Courtroom III. Okay? And the Sanski Most documents, we'll have them

9 admitted tomorrow.

10 MS. KORNER: Yes.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.

12 MS. KORNER: Yes, thank you.

13 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, the schedule says Courtroom I. Is it

14 Courtroom III?

15 JUDGE AGIUS: It is Courtroom III, yes. Right, exactly.

16 MR. ACKERMAN: All right.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you and wish you good evening, and we'll

18 meet tomorrow.

19 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

20 at 6.30 p.m., to be reconvened on Tuesday,

21 the 23rd day of April, 2002, at 1.30 p.m.

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