Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 8867

1 Thursday, 25 July 2002

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Madam Registrar, you can call the case.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour, this is the case number,

7 IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav Brdjanin and Momir Talic.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Mr. Brdjanin, good afternoon to you. Can you

9 hear me in a language that you can understand?

10 THE ACCUSED BRDJANIN: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your

11 Honour. I can hear you and I understand you.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you.

13 General Talic, good afternoon to you. Can you hear me in a

14 language that you can understand?

15 THE ACCUSED TALIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.

16 I can hear you in a language that I can understand.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you, you may sit down.

18 Appearances for the Prosecution.

19 MR. CAYLEY: Good afternoon, Your Honours. My name is Andrew

20 Cayley. I appear on behalf of Prosecutor with my learned friend Joanna

21 Korner and our case manager Denise Gustin. Thank you.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you.

23 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.

24 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. I'm John Ackerman

25 with Milan Trbojevic and Marela Jevtovic. Thank you.

Page 8868

1 JUDGE AGIUS: And good afternoon to you.

2 Appearances for General Talic.

3 MR. ZECEVIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Slobodan Zecevic,

4 Natasha Ivanovic-Fauveau for General Talic.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you. And good afternoon to you too.

6 Any preliminaries before we start the re-examination? No.

7 We can draw the curtains down, bring the witness in.

8 And Mr. Cayley, how long do you anticipate your re-examination to

9 last? Just to regulate ourselves.

10 MR. CAYLEY: I think at the most two hours.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: At the most two hours. Yes. That would still

12 require us to have a break, Madam Registrar. No? Yes.

13 Anyway, let's bring the witness in. Yes. We'll go into closed

14 session.

15 [Closed session]

16 [redacted]

17 [redacted]

18 [redacted]

19 [redacted]

20 [redacted]

21 [redacted]

22 [redacted]

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24 [redacted]

25 [redacted]

Page 8869

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Page 8941

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.

2 --- Recess taken at 5.37 p.m.

3 --- On resuming at 5.57 p.m.

4 [Open session]

5 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, can I just return briefly to this

6 topic. It's this: In the particular, BT21 has just finished giving quite

7 comprehensive evidence about what happened in Sanski Most. In order not

8 for him to be here for weeks and weeks there are a number of documents

9 which are relevant to his evidence but which we haven't gone through

10 and which still remain in the binders. I would like very briefly just to

11 go through them. That's my application.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] Mr. Ackerman. I don't

13 know who's --

14 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, there are probably 17 places in the

15 transcript where I've made my feelings about this known, and I think it

16 will be of very little use for me to go any further with that. I still

17 have great confidence in Your Honours' ability to read. And if you're

18 going to let her read, I again repeat that I'd ask to be excused. And

19 the other thing I would say about it is if -- if there's ever any hint

20 that what she's making is a submission as opposed to reading documents,

21 then I would ask that she not be permitted to make a submission at the end

22 of her case.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: And Mr. Zecevic.

24 MR. ZECEVIC: Your Honours, we are joining with what my learned

25 friend John Ackerman has already said.

Page 8942

1 JUDGE AGIUS: [Microphone not activated] And not for the moment.

2 What I suggest we do is this --

3 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Oh, yes. I apologise. Let's try to find a halfway

5 solution to this. I do understand definitely, Ms. Korner, that in that

6 binder you do attach particular importance to particular documents, at

7 least more than others. Equally I do appreciate Mr. Ackerman's

8 acknowledgment of our ability to read or the continuation of that

9 ability. I think what we need to know is this: I certainly will not stop

10 you from indicating to the Bench which documents you would like to point

11 out in particular. Definitely not. But it's -- also you don't need to

12 explain -- because last time we did this, we sat here, and what we -- what

13 we had -- I mean, we bypassed the obstacle of not having to read the

14 document, but we also had to engage into an exercise of having explained

15 to us what the document is all about. I think we could have equally

16 scored the points if you had told us the Prosecution would like to lay

17 emphasis on these particular documents. You don't even need to tell us,

18 "Please read them," because we will read them. I can assure you of

19 that.

20 What we would rather be interested in, more than anything else, is

21 if there are any documents in that binder which initially you were

22 attaching importance to and you are no long their much interested in, if

23 that is the case. I mean, I do not take it for a moment that that is the

24 case. But if that is the case, then obviously -- I mean, if we could sift

25 the wheat from the chaff, that would be useful. But I definitely -- we

Page 8943

1 have discussed this. We definitely do not intend to stop you if you

2 want to indicate which documents you want to attract or draw our attention

3 to in particular.

4 MS. KORNER: Well, Your Honour, it's not -- and let me make it

5 absolutely clear. And I know Your Honours don't seriously think so and

6 nor does Mr. Ackerman that I doubt Your Honours' to read. The difficult

7 we all know is that there are so many competing claims on one's time with

8 other matters. And I know that all Your Honours are involved in other

9 cases in this building, as we are as well, that it sometimes helps when a

10 matter is current to just look through the documents which does take maybe

11 a little bit of time.

12 Your Honour, I think what I'll do is because I got Ms. Gustin to

13 do the exercise for me today -- is in fact the majority of the documents

14 in the Sanski Most binder have already been gone through with witnesses --

15 JUDGE AGIUS: More or less.

16 MS. KORNER: I think I counted up there's something like -- I will

17 give Your Honours and obviously my learned friends as well the list and I

18 will star the ones that -- all of them are important. We did a cull and

19 we've done even a greater cull than Kljuc. I will star the ones that I

20 would draw -- ask Your Honours' attention to be drawn to.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And what I also do, I think, it's only fair

22 that I not reveal but at least I inform you about this: Let's take this

23 last witness that we had. When Mr. Cayley started his direct, you will

24 recall that I asked Mr. Cayley which documents will you be referring to in

25 the course of your examination-in-chief, and he said all the Sanski Most

Page 8944

1 documents, to which, of course, I cannot retort because he has a right to

2 refer to all the documents. But in actual fact, what at least I do and I

3 know that the other Judges more or less do the same thing, is that I mark

4 in my records through my secretary all the documents that you initially

5 say you may be referring to. I mark those which you make use of, and I

6 also mark those which you do not make use of not because of any intention

7 or plan or desire not to attach any importance to those that are not made

8 use of but for the record I think it is necessary for us to know that as

9 far as that particular -- or this particular witness is concerned, you

10 asked us in the first place to have a look at all those documents.

11 Now, some of those documents are also made use of -- for example,

12 if I take any one of these documents here and I put down which witnesses

13 have been asked to refer to that document. So more or less we have a

14 continuous exercise along that line. Each and every document that there

15 is in the Banja Luka, in the Sanski Most, et cetera, has got indicated

16 upon it which witnesses have given testimony upon it and documents on --

17 which have not been referred to any of the -- of the witnesses are also

18 not classified, but we have a record of them.

19 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I -- yes, I take Your Honour's point.

20 My -- it's just my gut feeling through, I suppose, years of practice that

21 if one doesn't deal with documents and look at the contents at the time

22 when it's relevant, it tends to disappear into the great pit. But I take

23 Your Honour's point.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: I come from a jurisdiction where -- I don't know if

25 I have told you this, but when at a very young age as a budding lawyer I

Page 8945

1 went to plead one of my cases and I started referring -- had documents,

2 case law and whatever, and I asked the judge for permission to quote

3 from -- he told me, "Give us the reference. We know how to read." And in

4 our jurisdiction, you never try to read from either a case law or

5 judgement or authors or whatever. I mean, it's -- it's something which we

6 all know we shouldn't do. I mean -- so when I come here and I'm asked,

7 "Let's sit down and go through these documents," it -- it's something

8 to -- that I am not used to. I mean, it's -- putting it simply.

9 MS. KORNER: Well, I --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: But I can assure you, Ms. Korner, that I wish I

11 could actually -- and one I probably will -- I will invite you to my

12 chamber to see how everything is catalogued and how each and every

13 document, exhibit, is catalogued directed at a point or at a particular

14 witness, because that's the way I have been trained to work and that's how

15 I -- how I do it. This is a large case, a humongous number of

16 documentation, and it's important to do that as an ongoing process in

17 order not to get lost. But say tomorrow I'm going to Malta. I'm coming

18 here in the morning to pack a number of what I consider to be documents

19 which are more relevant and more important than others which I will

20 photocopy, take with me, and stay reading during my hours of sunshine

21 in -- so I can assure you that we do read what -- what you feed us,

22 definitely.

23 MS. KORNER: I've got a lot more things to deal with.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't think she is finished.

25 MR. ACKERMAN: On this subject.

Page 8946

1 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't think Ms. Korner has finished.

2 MS. KORNER: On that subject I am.

3 MR. ACKERMAN: On this subject.

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. All right. Yes, Mr. Ackerman.

5 MR. ACKERMAN: I just wanted to say because I need to make it a

6 matter of record that -- in my view, permitting the Prosecutor to at this

7 stage in the case to identify those exhibits which she considers to be

8 more important than others is in the nature of a submission.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: It's not being suggested in the nature -- to be done

10 in the nature of a submission. But in the nature of documents or exhibits

11 which have not been put to witnesses, documents on which witnesses have

12 not been asked to put clarifications, that nonetheless the Prosecution

13 wants to bring out to the attention of the Tribunal. It's not a

14 submission. I mean, it's --

15 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, Your Honour, I'm not -- I'm not going to give

16 up the point. If I say to you, "Your Honour, now, this document I think

17 is really important and I'd like you to pay particular attention to it,"

18 I am making a submission. That is a submission in my mind. That is

19 my objection. And you know, of course, you rule as you want but I'm just

20 making it for the record.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: It's not being taken as a submission. It will be us

22 who eventually will decide the importance of each and every document,

23 and -- but it obviously -- if there are documents that need to be looked

24 at in spite of the fact that they have not been referred to a witness,

25 they are going to be looked at in any case. But if they are pointed out

Page 8947

1 to us, it's -- it helps.

2 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, I could do the same exercise by simply

3 calling Mr. Inayat in and going through a really tedious exercise and

4 getting him to confirm where this document is coming from and then look at

5 the contents.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

7 MS. KORNER: So in one sense it's not a submission. It's merely a

8 shortcut.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: No. We are not taking this -- I haven't discussed

10 this with my two colleagues here. But at least I personally am not taking

11 it as a submission. In fact, it's an appeal that I am making for

12 assistance, help, from your part. I will do the same when it comes to

13 your documents later on. I will probably come forward and ask

14 Mr. Ackerman, Mr. Zecevic, there are a number of documents that you have

15 tendered that you have, however, not made use of. What importance do you

16 expect us to give to those documents?" Because there may be some

17 documents to which -- in which you are no longer interested. And more or

18 less this is what I'm suggesting. Because I am pretty sure that there are

19 documents which I have already seen which are a replication -- one is a --

20 almost a replica of the other. And once you have possibly scored the

21 point with one document, there may be a case of not needing the rest of

22 that particular subject matter. So this is what I am suggesting.

23 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, yes. Well, I'll do as I suggested and

24 we'll supply to Your Honours the list of the ones that were not gone

25 through. As I say, it's actually quite a small list.

Page 8948

1 Your Honour, can I move then to the next subject I have. And it's

2 back to Rasula's diary. Two things. The first is this -- and I don't

3 think Mr. Ackerman can have meant this seriously. There's a complete

4 difference in law between testimony from a witness who is familiar with

5 the handwriting which is the subject of potential dispute and a person

6 wholly unfamiliar with the handwriting of the person that they're

7 attempting to show, Your Honours, may be a forgery, as is the case with

8 Mr. Ackerman's attempts in respect of what I call the Draganovic

9 signatures. And I know that Mr. Ackerman knows the law as well as I do.

10 But if necessary, we will make submissions to Your Honour on the law. But

11 however, in respect of this diary, Your Honour will recall when it was

12 raised by Madam Fauveau when she was asking the witness questions about

13 it, at the end of what she had to say she announced that although it was

14 more or less agreed that Rasula might have written some or most of it,

15 there were in it phrases which had been inserted in the Defence's opinion.

16 Your Honour, I'd be grateful now for an order that by the 26th of

17 August we are supplied with a list of the alleged phrases - Madam Fauveau

18 will have her chance in a moment - that it is alleged are inserted in

19 some way a copy or forged of his handwriting so that we can deal with the

20 required handwriting analysis.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.

22 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the position

23 of Defence is that this could -- that part of the diary could be the

24 original diary of Mr. Rasula and similarly it's possible that it isn't his

25 original diary. We quite -- we don't know. We contest the totality of

Page 8949

1 this diary. We contest its authenticity.

2 MS. KORNER: [Previous translation continues] ... Your Honour, I

3 think we really must sort this out, because we're about to leave Sanski

4 Most and we cannot leave this position unresolved. It is no good simply

5 saying we contest out of the air. There must be a basis when we have

6 evidence from this witness and I believe other witnesses to say this is

7 this man's handwriting and we've got confirmation of some of the events.

8 If, as was suggested yesterday, or the day before, I think it was,

9 it is suggested that certain parts of that diary have been inserted, then

10 the Defence must let us know.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Let -- yes, Mr. Ackerman.

12 MR. ACKERMAN: Well, that almost takes my breath away. If I say I

13 will not concede the authenticity of a document, that ends it. It's the

14 Prosecutor's job to prove its authenticity to the satisfaction of the

15 Court.

16 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't think that is contested by --

17 MR. ACKERMAN: It's never my job to prove why I say it's not

18 authentic. Never.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. But let me explain it in simple legal terms,

20 because this is something which is fundamental. The onus of proving the

21 authenticity of a document tendered in evidence by the Prosecution lays

22 with the Prosecution. There is no question about it. You have that --

23 you have that onus.

24 Now, I think even those lawyers that come from a jurisdiction

25 which is -- which is not the common law - and I am familiar with those

Page 8950

1 jurisdictions - the situation -- the legal situation that can arise is

2 that as one goes along, there are suggestions that a document may not be

3 authentic after all. Does the onus of proof shift from the Prosecution

4 onto the Defence to prove that a document is -- which is tendered by -- as

5 evidence by the Prosecution is not authentic? No. The onus of proving

6 the authenticity of the document remains with the Prosecution. So what

7 the position ultimately boils down to is as these doubts or as attempts

8 are made to introduce doubts as to the authenticity of the document arise

9 or occur, it's up to the Prosecution -- it's certainly not up to the Trial

10 Chamber to take the initiative and say, "At this point in time, there are

11 too many questions asked. We are going to appoint an expert, without

12 being asked to appoint an expert." We are definitely not going to take

13 the initiative.

14 The point is very -- very simply put in legal terms is that

15 ultimately -- I mean, you don't have to prove anything. If there is doubt

16 as to the authenticity, the Prosecution ought to be exercising their mind

17 on the subject and know what the position is in their opinion. It's not

18 in our opinion. If at any time you feel that the burden -- or the

19 responsibility you have of proving the authenticity of a document has been

20 prejudiced to an extent that you need to proceed any further, then if you

21 want to ask for whatever you think is necessary to have in support of your

22 onus that you carry, to prove the authenticity of the document, you will

23 get the support of the Tribunal. I can guarantee you that. But beyond

24 that, it's a question of -- if you maintain the position that you have

25 taken so far. You have a diary -- and this is apart from the relevance or

Page 8951

1 otherwise of bits and pieces in that diary which may or may not be

2 authentic or definitely written -- it's -- that is another issue. But

3 forget that for the moment. But if the situation continues to obtain in a

4 way in which there is a document, 759.1, which you maintain is authentic

5 and you bring forward witnesses who need not -- I mean, don't expect

6 witnesses to be experts in handwriting -- but if you continue to bring

7 witnesses to prove the authenticity of that document and they continue to

8 try and shed doubt on that, and the matter is left at that, at the end of

9 the day what's going to happen? We are going to decide whether you have

10 satisfied the onus that you carry under the law or whether on a balance of

11 probability there has been inserted a doubt such as to render the

12 authenticity or the -- but that's it.

13 MS. KORNER: All right. Can I -- can I -- I take Your Honour -- I

14 see where Your Honour is going. But can I make this point. First of

15 all, I raised this because of what Madam Fauveau said yesterday. And

16 that's one the troubles, the continually changing and shifting of ground

17 on this.

18 But the first thing is, as Your Honour knows, all counsel owe a

19 duty to act responsibly. That means making suggestions not purely because

20 you don't like the video, the diary, the whatever, but with a foundation

21 for those suggestions which are instructions for evidence. Now, that's a

22 rule of thumb that I think applies in every jurisdiction.

23 The reason I'm raising it -- because as I explained yesterday, the

24 cost of sending this diary in Cyrillic for handwriting analysis -- there

25 are very few labs that will deal with that. I can assure Your Honour

Page 8952

1 we've made inquiries over other documents. So if the suggestion was

2 purely limited to what Madam Fauveau said yesterday, that it was some

3 lines that were alleged to be forged - and I don't know how she came by

4 that, if it's not her position today - then we would have arranged for

5 that to happen, as, if you like, the final crunch, because that, we could

6 have done. We will be saying at the end of the day - I make this

7 absolutely clear - that we have called witness after witness who can

8 attest to this handwriting being that of Rasula through knowledge of his

9 handwriting, which is in our submission --

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Not only that, it's --

11 MS. KORNER: Plus other events.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: The other bits and piece --

13 MS. KORNER: Exactly. But Your Honour, I just want to try and get

14 the general principle clear, that of course we will always assume the

15 burden of showing Your Honour, that it's authentic. But it is not

16 conducive to good order and the good running of this case, which is also

17 to the benefit of the accused, if these sort of allegations are made

18 without any explanation or, as far as we know, any foundation. For

19 example, we contest the authenticity of the video of Rasula standing there

20 congratulating the 6th Krajina Brigade. Your Honour, that's the point I

21 make. I see Madam Fauveau is on her feet again.

22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Madam Fauveau.

23 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I was quite

24 clear yesterday. The sentence started: [In English] "[Previous

25 translation continues] ... from Rasula." I did say maybe. I don't know.

Page 8953

1 So I'm contesting the totality of this document because it has been

2 altered. The document that we saw is not the original document. Someone

3 added a few lines. So that gives me the absolute right to think that

4 certain other phrases were added or that the entire document was written

5 on the basis of Rasula's handwriting and that someone could have imitated

6 it. And it is for this reason that I contest the authenticity of the

7 entire document.

8 As far as the video is concerned, it's a video in which there is

9 in fact this part that concerns the 4th Battalion of the 6th Brigade. But

10 nevertheless the second part of this cassette, which obviously wasn't

11 shown here in front of the Tribunal, it shows proceedings which took place

12 in front of this Tribunal. And I don't know how this part is on the

13 cassette. I don't know where this cassette comes from and I don't know

14 who the author is. So obviously I contest its authenticity.

15 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, sorry. It's the one where Rasula is

16 standing there --

17 JUDGE AGIUS: No, no. The second part. We haven't seen that.

18 MS. KORNER: Correct. No, because it's on the video, as

19 Mr. Cayley explained to Your Honours. There's matters wholly irrelevant

20 to this case.

21 Your Honour, there's a fundamental, I think, misunderstanding here

22 that simply because you don't know where something comes from, that means

23 you contest it. It is -- does your client -- does the accused say to you,

24 "This is incomplete. This never happened," or whatever? But anyhow,

25 I've made the point about the diary, and --

Page 8954

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

2 MS. KORNER: I see now that what Madam Fauveau said yesterday

3 about the phrases being inserted is not meant to be taken literally.

4 Your Honour, can I move then, please, to the next topic. The --

5 can I just confirm so that there's no doubt about it that all the

6 documents that were contained in the Sanski Most binders and those that

7 were admitted on top through witnesses have formally been entered into

8 evidence?

9 JUDGE AGIUS: They are -- any objection on the part of -- save --

10 save what has been put on record as being objected to as we went along,

11 because there are some documents which Madam Fauveau definitely objected

12 to.

13 MR. ACKERMAN: And we've made blanket objections at the very

14 beginning of the case.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.

16 MR. ACKERMAN: Regarding certain documents -- the character of

17 certain documents. And we certainly are not waiving those at this point.

18 But otherwise, no problem.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. So all the documents existing in the

20 binder are being so admitted, if they haven't been admitted already.

21 MS. KORNER: Well, they had. We looked at the transcript. But

22 the registry didn't seem to think so.

23 JUDGE AGIUS: In order to avoid any international

24 misunderstandings and clashes at this point in time just before the

25 holidays, we say they are being admitted.

Page 8955

1 MS. KORNER: Right.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: And -- even if they have been admitted before.

3 MS. KORNER: All right. Then can I move to the Kljuc binders,

4 please. Your Honour, they -- Your Honours -- I want to confirm this.

5 Your Honours have been given two -- I'm sorry, three, I think.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Three.

7 MS. KORNER: Three binders of documents with the index prepared by

8 Mr. Inayat. Again, can I ask the question: Is it required for Mr. Inayat

9 to testify at the beginning of the proceedings on the 26th of August to

10 confirm the sourcing document?

11 JUDGE AGIUS: The last time we dispensed -- yes, Madam Fauveau.

12 MS. FAUVEAU-IVANOVIC: [Interpretation] I stand by my position,

13 that is to say, Mr. Inayat can confirm -- can certify where the documents

14 came from into -- how they got to the OTP but he can't say how the

15 documents arrived in the organ that transmitted these documents to the

16 Prosecutor. So I don't really see what the relevance of his testimony

17 would be.

18 JUDGE AGIUS: So in actual fact, you don't require him, if -- if

19 he's not going to say anything that you consider relevant.

20 Mr. Ackerman, I see that -- does not require Mr. Inayat to come

21 forward.

22 MS. KORNER: Fine. In that case, Your Honour, can I ask now so

23 that it's clear before we begin the Kljuc evidence that all the documents

24 in the binders be admitted into evidence subject to the caveats that --

25 the standing caveats, if I can put it that way?

Page 8956

1 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Anything against? They are so being -- being

2 so admitted. Madam Registrar -- it remains on record that they have been

3 admitted today.

4 MS. KORNER: Your Honour, the first witness, as I think Mr. Cayley

5 confirmed yesterday.

6 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

7 MS. KORNER: Will be 7.106.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Correct. This is a protected witness.

9 MS. KORNER: This is a protected witness. He's not asked for

10 closed session. Your Honour, it's a pseudonym and image distortion.

11 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

12 MS. KORNER: We'll just have to see when we look at it how

13 difficult it is to keep going in and out of private session when he

14 mentions details which may identify him.

15 Your Honour, my -- the difficulty, of course, in relation to this

16 witness, or rather, advance notice, can I put it this way, is that he's

17 only coming in the weekend before. I will be calling the witness. And

18 therefore, I won't be seeing him until that weekend, so I cannot give, as

19 it were, any further advance notice of the documents than the Monday

20 morning.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: We'll probably arrive on the weekend all of us,

22 so --

23 MS. KORNER: Yes.

24 JUDGE AGIUS: I don't think there will be time to read much of the

25 documents.

Page 8957

1 MS. KORNER: No.

2 JUDGE AGIUS: Before we start on Monday. I'll be arriving on

3 Friday, precisely so that if there is anything that I need to read, I will

4 do that. But probably end up ...

5 MS. KORNER: Yes. Well, Your Honour -- then instead of giving the

6 usual advance notice, because of the holiday.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

8 MS. KORNER: All I can do is supply to the Defence the documents.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay.

10 MS. KORNER: Of the list in the morning. But as I say, he's

11 likely -- again, he's one of the witnesses who is going to give an

12 overview of the municipality. So he's likely to be a little time in

13 chief. Not, I hope, as long as some of the witnesses have been in Sanski

14 Most.

15 Your Honour, that's the -- I think the last of the matters that I

16 wanted to deal with.

17 JUDGE AGIUS: That's good.

18 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, can I just ask -- Your Honour said you

19 were leaving tomorrow.

20 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.

21 MS. KORNER: We do have -- and I say this now in open court -- an

22 ex parte application we want to make to Your Honour. We're not prepared

23 to give any further details -- which we can get to Your Honour tomorrow

24 morning.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I will be here tomorrow morning. Late, but I

Page 8958

1 will be here.

2 MS. KORNER: Thank you.

3 JUDGE AGIUS: I will be here part of the afternoon too, so ...

4 MS. KORNER: We're grateful then. Thank you very much.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ackerman.

6 MR. ACKERMAN: Your Honour, I'm -- I frequently rise at the end of

7 the day to say something critical about the translators. And I think it's

8 also appropriate when I observe that they have been uniquely excellent in

9 their translations that I should also say it. And my observation today is

10 that they have really done a smashing job, and we should congratulate them

11 for it.

12 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. And I think this part of the transcript ought

13 to be isolated and transmitted to the head of the Translation Unit as a

14 sign of appreciation. I suppose I can speak on behalf of everyone here --

15 as a sign of appreciation of the dedication and work that the interpreters

16 do, which is heavy, difficult. We do appreciate that it's a difficult job

17 to carry out. And that's perhaps our sign of appreciation at this point

18 in time before we rise for our summer recess. Thank you, Mr. Ackerman.

19 MR. ACKERMAN: And I should also point out that these kind remarks

20 have been translated perfectly.

21 JUDGE AGIUS: Thank you. I also should like to thank the rest of

22 the crew, the technicians and everyone, clerical staff. It has been a

23 long session, difficult, tiring, but I think we have worked together in a

24 smooth way. And our rest is well deserved, I think. Thank you.

25 See you on the 26th of August. On that day we will probably need

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Page 8960

1 to discuss a little bit the schedule, because there may be some changes in

2 the schedule as far as December is concerned. It may well be that we will

3 not finish on the 13th. There may be some changes. But the decision has

4 to be taken by the bureau further down the road, and we will let you know

5 accordingly.

6 MS. KORNER: And Your Honour is going to accommodate

7 Mr. Morrison's trip to The Hague I noticed the other day.

8 JUDGE AGIUS: Why not.

9 MS. KORNER: I thought we could do it afterwards.

10 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you. No, it coincides with -- thank

11 you.

12 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

13 at 6.33 p.m., to be reconvened on Monday,

14 the 26th day of August, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.

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