130404IA

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1 Thursday, 4 April 2013

2 [Initial Appearance]

3 [Open session]

4 [The accused entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 3.31 p.m.

6 JUDGE BAIRD: A very good afternoon to you all.

7 Mr. Registrar, call the case.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you, and good afternoon, Your Honour. This

9 is the case number IT-95-5/18-R77.3, the contempt case of

10 Radislav Krstic.

11 THE INTERPRETER: The speaker is kindly requested to repeat

12 because nothing could be heard because of the feedback.

13 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, good afternoon, Your Honour. This is case

14 number IT-95-5/18-R77.3 in the contempt case of Radislav Krstic.

15 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you.

16 I am Judge Melville Baird, a Judge of Trial Chamber (iii), and I

17 have been designated to hear this Initial Appearance of Mr. Krstic. I

18 would like counsel appearing for Mr. Krstic to now introduce himself.

19 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. I am

20 Tomislav Visnjic representing General Radislav Krstic in these

21 proceedings.

22 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you very much indeed. For the record, I know

23 that the Chamber has decided to prosecute this matter itself pursuant to

24 Rule 77(D)(ii).

25 Now then, Mr. Krstic, are you able to hear me in a language that

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1 you understand?

2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. I can hear

3 you --

4 JUDGE BAIRD: And are you --

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] -- and understand you.

6 JUDGE BAIRD: And are you receiving the interpretation in your

7 own language?

8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

9 JUDGE BAIRD: Very well.

10 I must now go through certain formalities. I must first ask you

11 to state your full name and date and place of birth for the record.

12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I am Radislav Krstic. I was born

13 on the 15th of February, 1948, in Vlasenica, the

14 Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

15 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you. I would like to check that you have

16 received a copy of the Order in Lieu of Indictment, dated March 27, 2013,

17 in your own language and that you have understood its content.

18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I did receive it in my

19 language and I have understood the substance of the case.

20 JUDGE BAIRD: Now you are representing here today by Mr. Visnjic.

21 Are you satisfied with your representation here today?

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I am, Your Honour.

23 JUDGE BAIRD: Now then, Mr. Krstic, you are charged with one

24 count of contempt for having refused to comply with the Chamber's

25 subpoena of October 23rd, 2012, and the addendum to the subpoena, dated

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1 7th November, 2012. The Chamber, having found that there were no medical

2 reasons which amounted to good cause for you not to comply with the

3 subpoena held that there was sufficient reason to believe that you

4 knowingly and wilfully interfered with the administration of justice and

5 therefore may be in contempt of the Tribunal.

6 Well, at this stage I would ask whether it is still your position

7 today that you are not willing to testify in the Karadzic proceedings?

8 Now, if you would prefer, we can go in private session so that the public

9 will not hear -- will not be able to hear what you say.

10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] For medical reasons, health reasons

11 exclusively, I am not able to testify in the case of Mr. Karadzic before

12 this Tribunal.

13 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you. Now then, you are entitled to have the

14 Order in Lieu of Indictment read out to you in court today, but you may

15 choose to dispense with that.

16 Now, do you wish it to be read now or do you waive that right?

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, it is up to you to

18 decide. I have read the Order in Lieu of Indictment, studied it, I have

19 understood it completely, so as far as I am concerned there is no need

20 for it to be read again.

21 JUDGE BAIRD: All right. So in effect you have waived that

22 right, in effect. Yes?

23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you. Now pursuant to Rule 62(A)(iii) of our

25 Rules of Procedure and Evidence, you can enter a plea to the charge of

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1 contempt set out in the Order in Lieu of Indictment today, if you so

2 choose, or you can decide to postpone your plea for a period of up to ten

3 days in accordance Rule 77(E).

4 Now, did you discuss this with your counsel?

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I did not discuss this particular

6 matter with my counsel.

7 JUDGE BAIRD: Would -- Mr. Visnjic?

8 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I think that this

9 refers only to the dead-line. At least as far as I understood from my

10 conversation with the General, he is prepared to plead today.

11 JUDGE BAIRD: All right. Well, let me -- let me get it from

12 him.

13 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] But perhaps we can ask him again.

14 JUDGE BAIRD: Indeed. Indeed.

15 Pursuant to Rule 62(A)(iii) of our rules of procedure, you can

16 enter a plea to the charge of contempt set out in the Order in Lieu of

17 Indictment today, if you so choose, or you can decide to postpone your

18 plea for up to a period of ten days in accordance with Rule 77(E).

19 Now then, do you understand this?

20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I do.

21 JUDGE BAIRD: And how --

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I do understand.

23 JUDGE BAIRD: And how do you wish to proceed?

24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I understand. I would like to

25 plead today.

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1 JUDGE BAIRD: Mr. Krstic, rise please.

2 [The accused stands up]

3 JUDGE BAIRD: You are charged with contempt of Court under

4 Rule 77(A)(i) of the Tribunal's Rules of Procedure and Evidence. How do

5 you plead?

6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Not guilty, Your Honour.

7 JUDGE BAIRD: You may sit down. Thank you.

8 [The accused sits down]

9 JUDGE BAIRD: In light of the nature of the charge against you

10 and all the circumstances, the Chamber would like to have this matter

11 resolved as quickly as possible. Given your plea, this means setting a

12 date for the trial. At the end of all the evidence, the Chamber will

13 issue its judgement.

14 Now, at the trial you would be entitled to call witnesses and you

15 may choose to testify yourself. This is for you to discuss with your

16 counsel. I would therefore like to ask you, through your counsel, how

17 long you consider you will need to prepare for this trial?

18 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, without going into too

19 much detail, I believe that we will be ready in 30 or 35 days. We need

20 to obtain some documents, and taking into account the translation and

21 everything I think we are talking about a period of 30, 35 to 40 days to

22 be ready.

23 JUDGE BAIRD: There is no question of a figure below that at all?

24 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] If we obtain the documents. We are

25 clear about what we need to obtain, but there are two ways to proceed.

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1 Perhaps we can shorten the trial time, which is why we would prefer to

2 perhaps get written evidence rather than calling a live witness. The

3 second path would be obtaining documents from a foreign country, so if we

4 embark on that right now it's possible that we would obtain that without

5 the use of Rule 54, which would be a direct request for documents. We

6 are talking about a transcript of a trial, so we are hoping to get this

7 as soon as possible. However, I have still have not any kind of date by

8 which we would be able to obtain that. So this is why I set the period

9 of 30 to 40 days.

10 If we obtain the documents within the next two weeks, I can

11 inform you about that, and then you could proceed to issue an order

12 setting the date for the trial if things should happen that way.

13 JUDGE BAIRD: The whole question of your Defence is entirely in

14 your hands.

15 Now, as this is a contempt case, I do not believe that there

16 might be issues of disclosure or that these proceedings should be

17 prolonged unnecessarily. Am I right?

18 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.

19 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you. If you wish to file any preliminary

20 motions, you are ordered to do so within ten days from today in

21 accordance Rule 77(E). Now, once these deadlines have passed, the

22 Chamber will consider the court schedule and set a date for trial as soon

23 as possible thereafter. Thank you.

24 Now, Mr. Krstic, I am aware that you have certain medical

25 conditions, and I wish to ask you whether your medical condition has been

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1 adequately provided for in the United Nations Detention Unit and whether

2 you have any other concerns with respect to the Detention Unit. Should

3 you wish to mention any private details concerning your medical

4 situation, we can of course go into private session so that those details

5 remain confidential.

6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have nothing to say

7 regarding my status and also my treatment by the medical staff in the

8 Detention Unit.

9 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you very much indeed.

10 Now, Mr. Krstic, and indeed you, Mr. Visnjic, do you have any

11 other matter which you wish to raise at this time?

12 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. Not at this time,

13 other than wanting to say that I am going to inform you in writing about

14 our endeavours to obtain these documents for purposes of planning the

15 beginning of the trial.

16 JUDGE BAIRD: Indeed. Thank you very much indeed.

17 All right. This being the case, without anything further to be

18 raised, the hearing is now adjourned.

19 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.46 p.m.

20 sine die