1 Monday, 1 October 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good afternoon to everybody in court today.

7 Mr. Registrar, can you please call the case.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case number

9 IT-04-83-T, the Prosecutor versus Rasim Delic.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Could we have appearances,

11 please, starting with the Prosecution.

12 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President. Good afternoon, Your

13 Honours, counsel and everyone in and around the courtroom. For the

14 Prosecution, Daryl Mundis and Aditya Menon, assisted by our case manager,

15 Alma Imamovic.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. And for the Defence.

17 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good

18 afternoon to my learned friends from the OTP, to all those in and around

19 the courtroom. Vasvija Vidovic and Nicholas Robson for the Defence of

20 General Delic, with assistant Lana Deljkic.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Good afternoon, sir.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Would you please make the declaration.

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I solemnly declare that

25 I will speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

1 WITNESS: SAFET SIVRO

2 [The witness answered through interpreter]

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. You may be seated.

4 Mr. Mundis. Mr. Mundis -- Menon.

5 MR. MENON: Thank you, Your Honour.

6 Examination by Mr. Menon:

7 Q. Mr. Sivro, can you please state your full name for the record?

8 A. Safet Sivro.

9 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please be asked to speak closer

10 to the microphone. We can hardly hear him.

11 A. Safet Sivro.

12 MR. MENON:

13 Q. And what is your date of birth, Mr. Sivro, and your place of

14 birth?

15 A. I was born on the 9th of June, 1958, in Poculica.

16 Q. And in which country is Poculica?

17 A. Poculica is in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Sivro. What is your current occupation?

19 A. Pensioner.

20 Q. Thank you. Mr. Sivro, were you ever a member of the Army of

21 Bosnia and Herzegovina?

22 A. Yes, from the very beginning of the war.

23 Q. And were you ever a member of the Command Staff of the 3rd Corps?

24 A. Yes, I was a member of the 3rd Corps of the Command Staff.

25 Q. And can you identify the position or positions that you held in

1 the 3rd Corps Command Staff and the time period or periods in which you

2 occupied those positions?

3 A. From late April 1994, I was in the Staff of the 3rd Corps, in the

4 Operations Centre.

5 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please be asked to repeat the

6 latter part of his answer?

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Sivro, the witnesses can't -- I beg your

8 pardon. The interpreters are not able to hear you. Could you please

9 speak a little louder and try to speak directly to your microphone so that

10 they can hear you. And will you please repeat the answer you just gave,

11 because they didn't hear you.

12 A. In late April 1994, I came to the Command of the 3rd Corps, where

13 I was assigned to work in the Operations Centre of the Staff and in the

14 Department for Planning and Observing Combat Activities.

15 MR. MENON:

16 Q. And, Mr. Sivro, when you came to the Operations Centre, what was

17 role, what was your position?

18 A. I was a desk officer in the Operations Centre.

19 Q. Thank you. And you've referred to the Operations Centre. Within

20 which department of the 3rd Corps Command Staff is the Operations Centre

21 situated?

22 A. The Operations Centre is in the Staff of the 3rd Corps.

23 Q. But is it in a particular department within the 3rd Corps Command

24 Staff or is it not?

25 A. It forms a constituent part of the Staff. The Operations Centre

1 had its office where the chief of the Operations Centre was located as

2 well as I, and a special part of the Operations Centre was an office where

3 the duty officer was located.

4 Q. Mr. Sivro, are you familiar with the Department for Operations and

5 Training within the 3rd Corps Command Staff?

6 A. In the Staff of the 3rd Corps, we didn't have a Department for

7 Operations. Rather, we had an Operations and Training Department or

8 Section.

9 Q. And was the Operations and Training Department comprised of

10 individual units?

11 A. It was the constituent part of the Staff or the headquarters which

12 functioned in different sections. One was the Operations Department,

13 another one was training, and the third one was monitoring of combat

14 activities.

15 Q. And these different sections that you've referred to, were they

16 all underneath the Operations and Training Department?

17 A. No. The Training and Education Section was a separate unit in the

18 Staff of the 3rd Corps.

19 Q. Okay, thank you very much. Mr. Sivro, going back to -- you'd

20 mentioned that you were a desk officer. Can you -- in the Operations

21 Centre. Can you explain what your responsibilities in that position were?

22 A. For the most part, I received reports from subordinate units. That

23 was the gist of our job. We produced daily orders of the commander for

24 duty shifts and so on and so forth.

25 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Sivro. And, Mr. Sivro, when you joined

1 the 3rd Corps Command Staff, I believe you mentioned it was late April of

2 1994, who was the commander of the 3rd Corps at that time?

3 A. Sakib Mahmuljin was the commander of the 3rd Corps.

4 MR. MENON: Thank you.

5 I would ask now that the witness now be shown Exhibit P02464.

6 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the page in front of you?

7 A. I do.

8 Q. To what kind of document would this page belong?

9 A. This is the logbook of daily orders of the IKM, that's to say the

10 forward command post of the 3rd Corps.

11 Q. Thank you very much. If we could just move on to page number 2 of

12 the English and B/C/S.

13 Mr. Sivro, do you see the initials "SS" on this document?

14 A. I do. I do.

15 Q. To whom do those initials belong?

16 A. These are my initials.

17 Q. And why do your initials appear on this document?

18 A. Because I drafted this, I wrote this. I'm the author.

19 Q. And I want to direct your attention to section 1(a) of this

20 document. What does that section provide for?

21 A. On the 26th of August, 1995, duty operations officer shall be

22 Major Mensur Brkic and his assistant shall be Lieutenant Suad Grcic. That

23 means the duty officer on that day would be the above-mentioned major, and

24 his assistant was to be the person mentioned there on that date in the

25 Staff of the 3rd Corps.

1 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Sivro. What were the responsibilities of

2 a duty operations officer? Are you familiar with those responsibilities?

3 A. The duty officer was charged with providing security to the IKM,

4 to maintain the premises, and was responsible for receiving orders from

5 subordinate units.

6 Q. And there's a reference to an assistant. What would the role of

7 the assistant be?

8 A. The role of the assistant was to step in for the duty officer when

9 he was asleep. The duty officer was on duty until 2400 hours, and then he

10 was replaced by his assistant, who would be on duty for the night until

11 6.00 in the morning.

12 Q. And how were people selected for the duty officer position?

13 A. The duty officer's highest rank was captain, whereas the assistant

14 duty officers were of lower rank.

15 Q. And for how long would a person be assigned to the duty officer

16 position?

17 A. The duty officer was on duty for 24-hour shifts.

18 Q. Okay, thank you very much. Mr. Sivro, in response to a question

19 that I put to you in terms of how people were selected for the duty

20 officer position, you said that the duty officer's highest rank was

21 captain. I'd refer you to the page in front of you. It appears that the

22 person assigned as the duty officer on the 26th of August, 1995, was a

23 major. Can you clarify your answer, in light of -- in light of the

24 passage that I've just referred you to?

25 A. No, you misunderstood me. I said that the duty officer was the

1 rank of a captain and above, whereas assistant duty officers were officers

2 holding lower ranks.

3 Q. Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Sivro. Were you ever

4 assigned as the duty officer -- duty operations officer? Excuse me.

5 A. Yes, on several occasions.

6 MR. MENON: Thank you. Your Honour, I would ask that this exhibit

7 be tendered into evidence at this stage.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

9 please be given an exhibit number.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 510.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

12 MR. MENON: I would ask now that the witness be shown Exhibit

13 P02463, and I also have the original of that document, and so perhaps it

14 would be best if we pull up the electronic version of that document, but

15 at the same time if the witness could refer to the original hard-copy

16 version of the document which I have in my hand.

17 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may. If I may ask

18 that should the Prosecutor ask that the document be tendered, for the

19 document to be admitted after my cross-examination. I don't want to go

20 into extensive explanations before the witness.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon.

22 MR. MENON: That's -- that's fine with me. I'd still like to lay

23 the foundation for admitting the document, and so I'll go through it with

24 him.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay, thank you.

1 MR. MENON:

2 Q. Mr. Sivro, I'd just like to refer you to the front -- front of

3 that page, and there should be a reference number on the top of it. It's

4 01855061. Can you tell me what kind of -- you've got a diary in your

5 hand -- what kind of diary this is, or booklet?

6 A. This is the operations diary of the 3rd Corps.

7 Q. And what's the purpose of this particular diary?

8 A. The purpose of this diary is for the duty officers to make note of

9 the most important events taking part during his duty shift.

10 Q. And just for clarification, who's primarily responsible for

11 maintaining this particular diary?

12 A. Those responsible for maintaining the diary or, rather, the person

13 responsible was the duty officers -- the duty operations officer.

14 Q. If you could -- if you could turn to the first page in that -- in

15 the diary, Mr. Sivro. It's got a reference number 01855061, and on the

16 e-court version it's page 2 of the B/C/S and page 2 of the English.

17 Have you found the reference -- the page with the reference

18 01855061, Mr. Sivro? Excuse me, 5062, I believe it is.

19 A. Yes, I've found it.

20 Q. Can you describe what's set out on this page?

21 A. This is the instruction for keeping an operations diary, providing

22 for the way in which the duty operations officer is to keep the diary.

23 Q. Okay. And there's a reference to -- there's an "F" on the upper

24 right-hand corner of the document, of the page in front of you. What

25 is -- what does that relate to?

1 A. Farz.

2 Q. And if we could just go to page 2 -- the following page of the

3 English, so I guess that would be page 3 of the English, leave it on the

4 same B/C/S page in the screen. Mr. Sivro, if you keep looking at that

5 same document, there are initials "SS" at the bottom left-hand corner of

6 the document. To whom to those initials belong?

7 A. These are my initials.

8 Q. And why do your initials appear on this page?

9 A. Because I'm the author of the instructions.

10 Q. Thank you. Now, if we could go to page 20 of the B/C/S and

11 English version -- excuse me. The English translation is going to be on

12 ETO1855080. It's page 20 of the e-court B/C/S.

13 And, Mr. Sivro, if you could find the page with the reference

14 01855080.

15 A. I see that.

16 Q. Have you found --

17 A. I've found it.

18 Q. Thank you. I'd refer you to the entry marked as "309". Do you

19 see that?

20 A. I do.

21 Q. Now, above that entry there are some markings. Can you explain

22 what the significance of those markings are?

23 A. I don't understand. What are you referring to?

24 Q. I'm referring to -- there's a signature there, two signatures

25 above that entry, and then there are two statements, "Duty handed over by"

1 and "Duty received by." If you could just explain the significance of

2 those markings.

3 A. This means that Major Halilagic transferred his duty to Captain

4 Mrkaljevic who took over.

5 Q. And took over in what position?

6 A. The duty officer's shift.

7 Q. Now, if I could refer to you entry number 309, whose signature

8 would appear beside that entry?

9 A. Under "309", I can't say whose signature that is.

10 MR. MENON: I'll move on, Your Honour. Thanks.

11 Now, if we could move on to page 8 of the B/C/S, and the English

12 is going to be 01855068.

13 Q. And, Mr. Sivro, if you could find also in the book in front of you

14 the reference -- or the page with the reference 01855068.

15 A. I can see that.

16 Q. Okay. If I could refer you to entry number 70, Mr. Sivro. Do you

17 recognise the signature beside that entry?

18 A. I do.

19 Q. And to whom does that signature belong?

20 A. Mine, it's my signature.

21 Q. And I just have a clarification question for you. Why is it that

22 your signature appears beside the first three entries and it would seem

23 that these entries relate to the date of the 1st of September, 1995, and

24 that another signature appears for the remaining entries for that

25 particular day?

1 A. Probably I was stepping in for the duty operations officer at the

2 time, whether he was --

3 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter couldn't catch what the witness

4 said.

5 A. He must have -- I must have been replacing him at the time in

6 the Operations Centre.

7 MR. MENON: Thank you very much.

8 Your Honour, that's all I have for the witness on this particular

9 document. Obviously, I won't be tendering it now, but following the

10 Defence's cross-examination we would like to tender this into evidence at

11 that point. So for now, I'd just ask that it be marked for

12 identification.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence as marked

14 for identification. May it please be given an exhibit number.

15 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 511

16 marked for identification.

17 MR. MENON: I'd ask now that the witness be shown Exhibit P02465

18 [Realtime transcript read in error "P04265"].

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is it P02465 or P04265?

20 MR. MENON: It's 2465 [Realtime transcript read in error"4265"],

21 Your Honour.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. I just saw that the transcript was showing a

23 different number.

24 MR. MENON:

25 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the document in front of you?

1 A. I do.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, the transcript still shows the wrong

3 number. It's 2465, not 4265.

4 MR. MENON: Thank you for that, Your Honour.

5 Q. Mr. Sivro, what type of document is this?

6 A. This is the war diary of the 3rd Corps.

7 Q. And are you familiar with this particular diary?

8 A. I am.

9 Q. And why is it that you're familiar with this particular diary?

10 A. I believe that I kept some war diaries of the 3rd Corps at the

11 IKM.

12 Q. Did you keep this particular diary?

13 A. I don't remember. I would have to look at the contents to be able

14 to tell you that.

15 Q. Very well. We'll look at the contents in just a second. But

16 before we do, I just have one further question for you. Generally, what

17 was the purpose of a war diary?

18 A. The purpose of a war diary was to set out in it the most important

19 elements of the events of the day in the Staff of the 3rd Corps, in the

20 subordinate units, whether there were any combat activities or not, and

21 such like.

22 MR. MENON: And if we could just move to page 15 of the B/C/S and

23 English now.

24 Q. Mr. Sivro, there are two entries on this particular -- on the page

25 in front of you. I would refer you to the upper entry. Did you make that

1 entry?

2 A. I did.

3 Q. And I would like to refer you to the third bullet point, and the

4 sentence begins: "The commander of the El Mujahedin Detachment," and

5 there's a reference there to "IKM 1". Can you tell us what IKM 1 is?

6 A. I can't remember exactly IKM 1 and 2. There were IKM Klek and --

7 THE INTERPRETER: -- another one The interpreter didn't catch.

8 A. Probably this one is the IKM Klek.

9 MR. MENON:

10 Q. Can you -- you referred to two IKMs and the interpreter didn't

11 hear what the second IKM was. Can you repeat the names of the two IKMs

12 that you just referred to, Mr. Sivro?

13 A. One was IKM Luke, the other one was IKM Klek. And the elevation

14 point was triple 7.

15 Q. And what did triple 7 relate to, to which IKM?

16 A. I assume that it was the IKM 1.

17 Q. Okay. And what was the function of the IKM Klek?

18 A. At IKM Klek, we were up there, a number of officers, before the

19 beginning of the Farz operation.

20 MR. MENON: If we could move on to page 17 of the B/C/S and

21 English. If we could scroll to the bottom of the document.

22 Q. Mr. Sivro, were you responsible for making this particular entry?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And now I'd refer you to the last four lines of the page, and it's

25 the same for the English, it's the last four lines of the English version

1 as well. And I believe there's a -- I'm just going to have the witness

2 read that out, because I believe there's a slight translation error. So

3 for the benefit of the record, I'll just have the witness read out the

4 last four lines.

5 Mr. Sivro, could you read out the last four lines of the text, and

6 it begins -- the sentence, I think, begins with: "During the day ..."

7 A. "During the day, the IKM of the 3rd Corps, 1777, was visited by

8 commander of Visoko, Mr. Halid Cengic and Brigadier General Rasid Zorlak."

9 MR. MENON: Thank you. Your Honour, I would just ask that we be

10 allowed to submit a revised translation specific to this particular text.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm not quite sure what you're saying, Mr. Menon.

12 What do you mean, provide a revised translation specific to this

13 particular text?

14 MR. MENON: Well, the text that the witness read out, there's a

15 slight translation error on the English version. It refers to an IKM 3,

16 and it's lacking the word "was," actually, so it's more a grammatical

17 error. Obviously, this is just for the benefit of the Trial Chamber. If

18 the Trial Chamber doesn't see any utility in it, then we obviously won't

19 do it, but just to make the language as clear as possible.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well, I hear that, we will probably do that,

21 Mr. Menon, but I see that on the translation that we have just been given

22 now, there doesn't seem to be mention of the person called Commander Halid

23 Cengic. Is that also a correction?

24 MR. MENON: Are you referring to the translation that the

25 witness --

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: The translation on the transcript now.

2 MR. MENON: On the transcript, I actual -- I see one. I do see

3 the reference to Halid Cengic. It's at line -- it begins at line 24,

4 actually, 14.24.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: What I see here at page 14, line 21, it

6 says: "During the day, the IKM of the 3rd Corps, 1777, was visited by the

7 commander in Visoko" -- oh, Halid Cengic. I beg your pardon. Sorry.

8 And GLOC, what's become of GLOC, Visoko GLOC?

9 MR. MENON: I think -- I mean I can certainly have the witness

10 clarify that, but I think he was obviously elaborating on the word "GLOC."

11 But I could have him clarify that for the benefit of the Trial Chamber.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay, go ahead.

13 MR. MENON:

14 Q. Mr. Sivro, what does "GLOC" refer to?

15 A. Major Logistical Operations Centre.

16 Q. Thank you. And, Mr. Sivro, what positions did Rasid Zorlak and

17 Halid Cengic occupy within the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina?

18 A. This first one was the commander of the GLOC, and the second one

19 was the Brigadier General Rasid Zorlak who was in the ABHO, something in

20 that sense, the atomic, biological, chemical weapons. He was probably the

21 chief.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes.

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness was just

24 looking at me, and I noticed the translation into Bosnian, we are not

25 getting at this moment. There is something wrong.

1 Is that correct, Witness?

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: It looks like we're not getting translations from

3 the Bosnian booth. Was there a problem there?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It's all right now, it's all right

5 now.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] That was a problem, but right now we

7 are getting the interpretation.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Madam Vidovic.

9 Mr. Menon.

10 MR. MENON: Thank you, Your Honour.

11 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you recall whether Mr. Zorlak and Mr. Cengic visited

12 anybody from the 3rd Corps Command during this particular visit that's

13 referred to?

14 A. They were with Commander Sakib --

15 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not get the last name.

16 MR. MENON:

17 Q. What was the last name of the person that you just referred to,

18 Mr. Sivro? The interpreter didn't hear you.

19 A. Commander Sakib Mahmuljin.

20 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would ask that this document be -- this

21 exhibit be tendered into evidence.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May the

23 please be given an exhibit number.

24 THE REGISTRAR: That's Exhibit number 512.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

1 MR. MENON: If the witness could now be shown Exhibit P02649,

2 02649.

3 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you know what this document is?

4 A. I don't.

5 Q. There's a reference to Postojna. Do you see that on the left-hand

6 column? Does that assist you in understanding what kind of document this

7 is?

8 A. Can you please repeat your question? I didn't hear it.

9 Q. There's a reference to Postojna on the left-hand column, and I was

10 wondering whether that would help you in recollecting what this document

11 is.

12 A. It should be the operations diary, but it doesn't look like an

13 operations diary. It hasn't been done the way it should be. Columns 3

14 and 4 -- actually, column 3 should say that it was operations, but it

15 should not state who it's from. Actually, it should say who the report

16 was received from, and at the bottom it should say who received it, but

17 from here you can't really see that. It looks like something that could

18 be an operations war diary, but I don't know.

19 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would just ask that this document be

20 marked for identification. I'll move on.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is marked for identification.

22 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon. The document is marked for

24 identification. May it please be given an exhibit number.

25 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, that will be MFI 513.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

2 MR. MENON: If the witness could now be shown Exhibit P02648.

3 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you know what type of document this is?

4 A. This is a regular combat -- a daily -- a regular daily combat

5 report.

6 MR. MENON: And if we could go to page 7 of the English version of

7 this document and page 3 of the B/C/S version of the document.

8 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the initials "SS" on the page in front of

9 you?

10 A. I do.

11 Q. To whom do those initials belong?

12 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not understand what the

13 witness said.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can you repeat yourself, please, Mr. Sivro. The

15 interpreters didn't hear what you said.

16 A. If this is a regular combat report, these are my initials, "SS,"

17 but there were other officers who were on duty and who also had the

18 initials SS.

19 Q. Mr. Sivro, while you were at the Operations Centre, did you have

20 the responsibility of preparing regular combat reports?

21 A. Only if I was the duty operations officer.

22 MR. MENON: If we could just go to page 1 of the B/C/S and English

23 again.

24 Q. Mr. Sivro, I would note for the record that this document is dated

25 the 22nd of September, 1995. Were you responsible for preparing this

1 particular document?

2 A. Yes, if I was the duty operations officer.

3 MR. MENON: Thank you very much.

4 If we could go to page 4 of the English and page 2 of the B/C/S

5 version of the document.

6 Q. Mr. Sivro, I would refer you to the section -- if we could scroll

7 down a little bit on the English version, just a little bit. Thank you.

8 Do you see the section marked "37th dKoV"? Do you see that

9 section?

10 A. I do, I do.

11 Q. If you could just read to yourself the sentence immediately above

12 that section.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, it would be very good

15 if the witness were to read this sentence out loud instead of silently,

16 because I actually see a very wrong translation of this sentence. So

17 perhaps the witness could read it out loud, with your permission.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon.

19 MR. MENON:

20 Q. Mr. Sivro, if you could read that sentence out loud.

21 A. "Units and commands of the 34th Corps --"

22 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter cannot see where the witness is

23 reading from.

24 MR. MENON: He's reading from the sentence immediately above the

25 section marked as "37th dKoV.

1 Q. Mr. Sivro, could you re-read that sentence again?

2 A. "Units and commands of the 3rd Corps today during the day were

3 visited by commander of the GSS and ARBiH, General Rasim Delic."

4 Q. Mr. Sivro, and I don't want you to speculate on this, I only want

5 you to tell me if you know, but do you know which units and commanders

6 Mr. Delic visited that day?

7 A. I don't know.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can I just understand? I thought the witness was

9 asked to read the writing under the heading "37th dKoV," but it looks like

10 he read the writing above "37th dKoV."

11 MR. MENON: Perhaps I misspoke, Your Honour, but that was my

12 intention, to have him read the sentence above.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Perhaps I misread.

14 MR. MENON: Yeah.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay.

16 MR. MENON: I would ask now that this document be tendered into

17 evidence, Your Honour.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if just we can keep

19 the note that the document needs to be corrected. Instead of the

20 words "were visited," the words here are "were inspected."

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, the interpretation by the witness

22 said "visited."

23 MR. MENON: Yes, that's fine with us, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: We note that. Thank you very much. The document

25 is admitted into evidence. May it please be given an exhibit number.

1 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 514.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

3 MR. MENON: If the witness could now be shown Exhibit P02662.

4 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the document in front of you?

5 A. I do.

6 Q. Can you tell us what type of document this is?

7 A. It's an analysis of the combat readiness of the 3rd Corps.

8 Q. And what was the purpose of these -- of this analysis document?

9 A. The purpose was to compile an analysis at the end of the month and

10 to present it to the higher command about the state of the units of the

11 3rd Corps.

12 Q. And when you say "higher command," which -- can you be a little

13 more specific?

14 A. The Army General Staff of the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

15 MR. MENON: Thank you. And if we could go to page 14 of the

16 English and page 27 of the B/C/S.

17 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the initials "NP" on the document in front

18 of you?

19 A. I do.

20 Q. And to whom to those initials belong?

21 A. Nermin Pesto from the Operations Centre.

22 Q. And what was Mr. Pesto's position within the Operations Centre?

23 A. He was the chief of the Operations Centre.

24 Q. And so in that case he would be your superior, wouldn't he?

25 A. For a time, yes.

1 Q. Now, did you ever have a role in preparing documents such as this

2 one?

3 A. Sometimes.

4 Q. And when you did have a role in preparing these analysis

5 documents, can you describe how you would go about carrying out that role?

6 A. I would compile reports from subordinate units and from sections

7 within the 3rd Corps, and then I would put them together.

8 MR. MENON: Thank you.

9 Your Honour, I would ask that this document be tendered into

10 evidence.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

12 please be given an exhibit number.

13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 515.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

15 MR. MENON: If we could look at Exhibit P02690.

16 While the English is coming up:

17 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the document in front of you?

18 A. I do.

19 Q. Sorry for interrupting you. What type of document is this,

20 Mr. Sivro?

21 A. It's an analysis of the implementation of the monthly plan for --

22 for the whole year, actually, specifically here for September 1995.

23 Q. And can you explain what the purpose of a document like this would

24 be?

25 A. The purpose of a document like this would be to make an analysis

1 of the implementation of the monthly plan for a specific month, meaning

2 what the organs within the 3rd Corps did and to see how many tasks were

3 resolved in the course of that month.

4 Q. And I just want to clarify one point. Would this document relate

5 to the monthly plan of the 3rd Corps?

6 A. Yes, the monthly plan of the organs and sections of the 3rd Corps.

7 MR. MENON: And if we could go to page 20 of the B/C/S and page 35

8 of the English.

9 Q. Mr. Sivro, the document appears to be signed by -- and it hasn't

10 come up on the English as yet, but now it has. The document appears to be

11 signed by Haso Ribo. Would you agree with me?

12 A. Yes, the signature is of Haso Ribo, and the document was signed by

13 Nermin Pesto, because he's the one who drafted this text.

14 Q. Now, Mr. -- excuse me.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I just understand.

16 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I please understand the previous answer. It

18 says at page 24, line 4: "Yes, the signature is of Haso Ribo, and the

19 document was signed by Nermin Pesto."

20 MR. MENON: I'll clarify that with the witness, Your Honour.

21 Q. Mr. Sivro, you referred to the document being signed by Nermin

22 Pesto. Was this document -- is the document in front of you signed by

23 Mr. Pesto?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And where does Mr. Pesto's signature appear?

1 A. It's signed for Haso Ribo. Where it says "for the head of the

2 Department for Operations and Training, Haso Ribo," the document was

3 actually signed for him by Pesto.

4 Q. Now, the position -- the document states that Mr. Ribo was the

5 head of the Department for Operations and Training. What was the

6 relation -- what was the functional relationship between the Operations

7 Centre and the Department for Operations and Training?

8 A. Haso Ribo was the deputy chief of the Staff for Operations and

9 Training. He was not -- he was the assistant chief for Operations and

10 Training, but as part of that there was an operation centre for the

11 monitoring of combat activities and for the planning of combat activities.

12 Q. So was the Operations Centre within the Department of Operations

13 and Training?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And you worked within the Operations Centre?

16 A. Yes, for a while I did.

17 Q. And now back to this document. Would you have a role in preparing

18 documents such as this?

19 A. Yes, sometimes I did that, sometimes Pesto did.

20 Q. And can you explain what your role would be?

21 A. Our role at the time was to compile, from the other sections and

22 departments, reports on the implementation of the monthly training plan.

23 We would put all of that together and we would send it to the headquarters

24 or the commander for them to review.

25 Q. And the commander of what?

1 A. Mostly to the chief of Staff, but sometimes the Corps Commander

2 also would take a copy and read it.

3 Q. And you're referring to the 3rd Corps commander, are you not?

4 A. Yes, commander of the 3rd Corps.

5 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would ask that this document be

6 tendered into evidence.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

8 please be given an exhibit number.

9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 516.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 MR. MENON: If the witness could now be shown Exhibit P06166.

12 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Menon.

13 MR. MENON: Yes.

14 JUDGE HARHOFF: Would it be too much to ask you if eventually you

15 will give us a clue as to the purpose of showing these documents to the

16 witness?

17 MR. MENON: Yes, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE HARHOFF: It would be very helpful. That would be very

19 helpful.

20 MR. MENON: Unfortunately, I mean, with the time constraints

21 obviously on this particular examination, it hadn't been my plan to go

22 through the particular substance of this document with this witness, but

23 certainly the substance of this document contains information which has

24 either been discussed in other -- by other witnesses or will be discussed

25 by future witnesses. And so at this point I did not plan on going through

1 the substance of this document with this witness. Obviously, to the

2 extent that -- if it were the case that the substance of this document was

3 never discussed by any witness, then that would obviously go to the weight

4 of the document, the weight that the Trial Chamber would attribute to the

5 document. But in terms of my plan for this specific -- for this specific

6 witness, I hadn't planned on discussing the contents of this document with

7 him, but merely to identify it and have him describe what exactly it was.

8 JUDGE HARHOFF: Well, bear in mind then, please, that if you are

9 under time pressure, then you should consider not bringing documents to

10 the witnesses of which the Chamber will have no use, because unless you

11 are sure that there is something substantial in the document that you want

12 the Chamber to be notified or to see or to take into account, then I don't

13 think you should waste your time in bringing it to the witnesses.

14 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I certainly didn't intend to try and have

15 a document admitted that would never be discussed by a witness. My -- the

16 only point that I was making was simply that it is certainly my

17 expectation that the contents of this document will be discussed by a

18 future witness and that the contents of -- certainly some aspects of this

19 document have been discussed by other witnesses. I mean, the witness --

20 this witness has identified this document as a summary of work performed

21 by 3rd Corps departments and units, and so we've already had testimony

22 relating to the operation of the 3rd Corps in this particular time

23 period. And so that's why -- and that is part of the reason why I thought

24 it sufficient to have this document admitted, without getting this

25 particular witness's explanation of the substantive content.

1 JUDGE HARHOFF: I understand. But I would then suggest that you

2 wait to bring the document before the witness until you do it in front of

3 the witness who will actually testify to its substance.

4 MR. MENON: I'll keep that in mind. Thank you, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE HARHOFF: Please do, because it's very confusing for us, not

6 knowing what the documents are intended to show.

7 MR. MENON: Okay. Thank you for that, Your Honour. I will keep

8 that in mind.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic, you were on your feet.

10 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I rose to my feet at

11 the point when His Honour Judge Harhoff started speaking. I was just

12 about to raise my objection, and I didn't manage to before it was

13 admitted.

14 If the Prosecutor could attempt to link up the documents and the

15 witnesses through which the documents are admitted, because we don't

16 really see why Mr. Sivro is testifying to this document rather than the

17 witness who will be taking the stand tomorrow and whose signature is on

18 this document. And my same objection applies to all the other documents.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: I see you're up, Mr. Mundis.

20 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President. I hate to rise to my feet

21 when one of my colleagues is leading a witness, but let me again simply

22 indicate that what we're trying to do is bring in witnesses who can

23 authenticate documents, the contents of which have either been the subject

24 of prior testimony or will be the subject of subsequent testimony.

25 With all due respect, it seems as though the Prosecution is in a

1 bit of a situation where we're between a rock and a hard place. We

2 could -- we could take the approach of trying to tender documents without

3 any witness to testify about them. That is in many instances

4 problematic. What we're simply trying to do is have the person who dealt

5 with this document, in many instances wrote the entries in the document,

6 come in and explain that and serve as a conduit through which the logbooks

7 or other documents can be admitted into evidence, with the full

8 expectation either that prior witnesses have testified as to the contents

9 or future witnesses will testify about the contents.

10 When we have logbooks -- when certain witnesses have produced them

11 and other witnesses who can talk about the contents, it's our view that we

12 need both of those witnesses in order to get both the logbook in and for

13 the Chamber to hear about the actual contents of the documents, and that's

14 simply all we're trying to do. If we need to bring witnesses in to do

15 that, then unfortunately that's what we have to do. We've tried doing a

16 similar exercise through Rule 92 ter. That was rejected by the Trial

17 Chamber. We're simply trying to get a situation where the logbooks come

18 in and we have witnesses who can talk about the contents of what's in the

19 logbooks. Those are not always one and the same person, and that's simply

20 what we're trying to do with this procedure.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you able to comment on the specific point

22 raised by Madam Vidovic, that this witness is now being used to tender a

23 document that appears to have been authored by Nermin Pesto, who is yet to

24 be called? And the question really is: Why couldn't this document wait

25 for Nermin Pesto to come and be tendered through him?

1 MR. MUNDIS: Again, Your Honours, Nermin Pesto, we expect to

2 testify, is listed also for one hour. There are a large number of

3 documents that we will be seeking to tender and admit into evidence by way

4 of that witness. What we're trying to do is move as expeditiously as

5 possible with the witnesses we have, in the time available, given the

6 large number of documents that we believe Your Honours need in order to

7 fully assess this case.

8 Similarly, with respect, for example, to the logbooks, there are

9 numerous persons whose names and initials appear in those documents.

10 We're not in a position to call all of those witnesses. We're simply

11 trying to link the exhibits through witnesses who can testify as to their

12 authenticity and the way in which they were produced.

13 It's easy to find a certain example here or there where we could

14 have selected a different witness to testify about those documents, but

15 clearly what we're trying to do, with the limited time that we have

16 available, is to get these documents that we believe are relevant and have

17 a certain degree of probative value before Your Honours so that you have

18 all the evidence that you need to reach the conclusions that you must at

19 the end of this case.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. Okay. Did you tender the document?

21 MR. MENON: I asked that it be tendered, Your Honour.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

23 please be given an exhibit number.

24 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

1 You may proceed, Mr. Menon.

2 MR. MENON: Thank you, Your Honour.

3 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you see the picture in front of you?

4 A. I do.

5 Q. Do you recognise anybody on this picture?

6 A. I do.

7 MR. MENON: And I would just ask if the usher could assist the

8 witness. I'm going to have him make some markings on the document.

9 Q. Can you tell us whom you recognise on this particular -- on the

10 picture?

11 A. The late President Alija Izetbegovic.

12 Q. Any other people?

13 A. Commander Sakib Mahmuljin.

14 Q. Anyone else?

15 A. Colonel --

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you asking us to make markings?

17 MR. MENON: I will, once he's mentioned the names, Your Honour.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: You're going to go back again to say, "Okay, mark

19 so-and-so," "Mark so-and-so"?

20 MR. MENON: I take your point. I'll ask him to mark as he goes

21 along.

22 Q. Mr. Sivro, you've mentioned Mr. Izetbegovic. Can you place a "1"

23 on Mr. Izetbegovic?

24 A. Here [marks]?

25 Q. That's fine.

1 A. Shall I write 1.

2 Q. That's fine.

3 A. 2 is Commander Sakib Mahmuljin. 3 is Colonel Ribo, Haso. 4 is

4 Fadil Hasanagic [Realtime transcript read in error "father"].

5 Q. Do you recognise anyone else on that picture?

6 A. I don't.

7 MR. MENON: Thank you very much. I would ask that this document be

8 tendered into evidence.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

10 please be given an exhibit number.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 517.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

13 MR. MENON: And I'm just -- I'm looking at the transcript, and it

14 says "4 is Father."

15 Q. Mr. Sivro, who did you mark with the number 4?

16 A. Fadil Hasanagic.

17 MR. MENON: If the witness could now be shown Exhibit P02466

18 [Realtime transcript read in error "P04266"].

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: P02466, not 4266. 2466, please. Thank you very

20 much.

21 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

22 Mr. Registrar informs me that the markings for Exhibit 517 have

23 been lost. Could we mark them again, please.

24 MR. MENON:

25 Q. Mr. Sivro, could you mark the people that you've just referred to,

1 and mark them with the same numbers. And as you go along, please repeat

2 the names that you've -- that you've marked and the numbers that you've

3 marked.

4 A. Number 1 is the state president late Alija Izetbegovic. 2 is the

5 commander of the 3rd Corps, Sakib Mahmuljin. Number 3 is Colonel Haso

6 Ribo, and number 4 is Fadil Hasanagic.

7 MR. MENON: Thank you. If we could capture that as an exhibit.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: I guess we've got it now. We can go to P02466.

9 Mr. Menon.

10 MR. MENON: If we could bring up P02466 on the screen, please. If

11 we could just go to -- if we could go to page 3 of the English and B/C/S.

12 Q. Mr. Sivro, what type of document -- what type of document is this,

13 the one that's in front of you?

14 A. This is the mail delivery or dispatch logbook of the 3rd Corps.

15 Q. And who within the 3rd Corps was responsible for maintaining this

16 particular dispatch delivery book, as you referred to it?

17 A. The headquarters administration.

18 Q. Thank you. And how would the documents listed in this particular

19 booklet have been sent to their recipients?

20 A. As for --

21 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please repeat his answer?

22 MR. MENON:

23 Q. Mr. Sivro, you need to speak up. The interpreters didn't hear

24 your answer.

25 A. This was sent by courier.

1 MR. MENON: Thank you.

2 Your Honour, I would ask that this document be tendered into

3 evidence.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

5 please be given an exhibit number.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 518.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

8 MR. MENON: I would ask now that the witness be shown Exhibit

9 P02417, 2417.

10 Q. Mr. Sivro, I would like you to just take a look at the page in

11 front of you, and then if we could move to page 15 of the B/C/S and page 2

12 of the English.

13 And now if we could move to page 16 of the -- can we get the whole

14 B/C/S page onto this screen?

15 Do you see that page in front of you, Mr. Sivro?

16 A. I do.

17 Q. Look at page 16 of the B/C/S and stay on the same page in

18 English. Do you see that in front of you, Mr. Sivro?

19 A. I do, but not clearly.

20 MR. MENON: Can we zoom in on it a bit?

21 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you know what type of -- what type of documents this

22 is?

23 A. I don't know.

24 MR. MENON: I would simply ask that this document be marked for

25 identification, Your Honour, and I'm finished with this witness. This

1 particular document --

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is going to be dealt with by somebody else?

3 MR. MENON: This is a register of mail, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is marked for identification. May it

5 please be given an exhibit number.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be MFI 519.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: And you said that brings you to the conclusion of

8 your examination-in-chief?

9 MR. MENON: Yes.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 I guess that's a convenient time to take the break. Can we take a

12 break and come back at 4.00.

13 Court adjourned.

14 --- Recess taken at 3.30 p.m.

15 --- On resuming at 4.00 p.m.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic.

17 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

18 Cross-examination by Ms. Vidovic:

19 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Sivro. My name is Vasvija Vidovic, and today

20 I will be examining you on behalf of the Defence for General Rasim Delic.

21 A. Good afternoon.

22 Q. Since both of us speak the same language, I urge you to make a

23 small break before answering my question and to speak up, please, because

24 the interpreters had difficulty hearing you.

25 You will be able to answer most of my questions with a yes or no.

1 However, if you feel that you need to provide an explanation, since I

2 think that your testimony can help a great deal in clarifying matters, I

3 ask you and invite you to provide an explanation, if you feel you have to

4 or if the Trial Chamber calls upon you to do so.

5 Mr. Sivro, would you tell the Trial Chamber what sort of schools

6 you completed?

7 A. I completed the technical/chemical high school, and then I

8 completed a further two years of higher schooling, which was common under

9 the Yugoslav system at the time.

10 Q. You have no military education whatsoever; is that the case?

11 A. I completed a course for squad leader in the army.

12 Q. But I am right, am I not, in saying that before performing the

13 duties of the chief of staff of the brigade or, rather, the operations

14 officer, you had not been trained for these duties at all?

15 A. I was not, I had not been.

16 Q. You did not attend any courses or training enabling you to handle

17 information of military character in a proper manner, did you?

18 A. No, I did not.

19 Q. You said not in the course of the war, but let me ask you this:

20 You did not complete the relevant schools for that sort of duty, did you?

21 A. No, I didn't.

22 Q. What is true, is it not, that the Army of Bosnia-Herzegovina,

23 throughout the war, did not have schooled officers of the sort, and you

24 had to accept this job; is that right?

25 A. Yes. Well, yes, I accepted it.

1 Q. I'm interested in your work in the Operations Centre, that's to

2 say in the planning section. Before I move on to that, let us clarify one

3 matter.

4 In your evidence, you stated that you were not the only person

5 who, in the course of 1995, was on the roster of operations duty officers

6 in the Command of the 3rd Corps, bearing the initials "SS."

7 A. Yes, you're right. There were two more officers who had the same

8 initials as I did.

9 Q. Very well. These were Senad Selimovic and Sead Sejman [phoen]; is

10 that right?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. In other words, when we see the initials "SS," this does not

13 necessarily mean that you provided the documentation or that you drafted

14 the document?

15 A. Well, if it concerns the Staff, if it concerns documents from the

16 Operations Centre and documents concerning combat readiness, then they

17 must be mine.

18 Q. So this refers to the Operations Centre documents?

19 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please repeat his answer?

20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

21 Q. Thank you for the clarification.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry. Witness, you're asked to repeat your

23 answer, please.

24 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Let me put the question to you

25 again. Perhaps it's easier this way.

1 Q. If the document concerning Operations Centre bear the initials SS,

2 this means that you produced them; is that right?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was that the gist of the answer you gave a moment ago?

5 A. Yes. For a while, I worked also in the combat activities section,

6 so there are documents I produced there, too.

7 Q. Could you please speak slowly and enunciate more clearly, because

8 I didn't even understand you in Bosnian. Can you please repeat your

9 answer slowly?

10 A. Yes, I will. I worked in the Staff of the 3rd Corps, in the

11 Operations Centre for a while and in the section for planning and

12 monitoring combat activities, too.

13 Q. You mean this is the Section for Planning and Monitoring Combat

14 Activities, is it not?

15 A. Yes, and if my initials appeared there in such documents, too,

16 then it means I drafted them.

17 Q. Thank you, very well. Let us clarify matters further.

18 In the Section for Planning and Monitoring Combat Activities, if I

19 understood you well, you worked there starting from April 1994. Am I

20 right?

21 A. From April 1994 through to the end of the war, I changed sections,

22 and I can't really give you specific time limits. I know that for a while

23 I worked in the Operations Centre, and for a while I worked in the

24 planning and monitoring of combat activities.

25 Q. At any rate, my understanding of your evidence is that you were

1 acting as duty officer only occasionally. Is that right?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Only twice monthly; is that right?

4 A. Twice monthly, perhaps more often if needed, but that was the

5 average.

6 Q. Generally speaking, the documents you saw and the documents you

7 were shown by the Prosecutor today, you can only comment upon the

8 information contained therein if you were the one presenting the documents

9 in drafting them; is that right?

10 A. Yes, only if I included them in these documents, if I entered them

11 in these documents.

12 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the Judge, please.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry. I just didn't understand what you were

14 saying, Madam Interpreter. You say, "If you were the one presenting the

15 documents in drafting them." I don't understand what that means. And when

16 you say "only if I included them in these documents," I didn't understand

17 what that means. It doesn't seem to answer the question put.

18 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter meant "only if I entered the

19 information in the documents as I was drafting them."

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's much better. Thank you so much.

21 You may proceed, madam.

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

23 Q. Witness, in your testimony today, you touched upon the question of

24 forward command posts. They are mentioned in the documents, aren't they,

25 specifically in document presented to you by the Prosecutor today, the

1 operations logbook of the IKM, the forward command post; is that correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Can you please tell the Trial Chamber how many forward command

4 posts the 3rd Corps had during the Farz operation in September 1995, if

5 you recall all of them?

6 A. There was an IKM at Luke. Then there was an IKM at Klek, at

7 elevation 777. There was a forward command post at Stavci and another one

8 in Trepca. There was another one in Maglaj at Natron.

9 Q. We will just clarify for the transcription. You mentioned the

10 IKM, Luke, then Klek, then Stavci, Natron and Trepca. Very well.

11 Also, there were observations posts for the commander; is that

12 correct?

13 A. Yes, there was an observation post of the 3rd Corps at the time of

14 the operation, and it was at the triple 7 location, the Klek. That was

15 the observation post of the 3rd Corps commander.

16 Q. I just want to clarify that. All right.

17 Now, what I want to ask you is the following: All the command

18 posts functioned at a specific time period, let's say, of a month; is that

19 correct?

20 A. More or less for about a month, yes.

21 Q. Would you agree that telephone connections at that time were not

22 constantly working; do you recall that?

23 A. We used induction telephones.

24 Q. Is that the field telephone?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. Do you agree that when you were working in the Operations Centre,

2 reports were reaching you which contained incorrect data as well; do you

3 recall that?

4 A. Well, I cannot say whether the data was correct or incorrect. If I

5 read a regular report, of course it was possible that there was some

6 inaccuracies or untruths there or that unit commanders were exaggerating

7 things in the report and so on.

8 Q. Do you recall that in August 1995, a thematic briefing was held in

9 the morale and personnel section of the 3rd Corps, attended in person by

10 Commander Delic, and he pointed to the problem of false information; do

11 you recall that?

12 A. No, I cannot remember that.

13 Q. All right, very well. Thank you. I will ask you something else.

14 From what I understand of your testimony, you said that you

15 received reports at the Operations Centre from subordinate commands. Is

16 that correct?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Then you summarised those reports into one report, and then you

19 would forward that to the superior command; is that correct?

20 A. Yes.

21 Q. When we're talking about reports by the 3rd Corps, would you agree

22 that they were always drafted in segments; for example, for morale,

23 aggressor forces, our forces, morale, logistics, Military Security

24 Service?

25 A. Yes, that's how the reports were drafted.

1 Q. And would you agree that those parts of the report were done by

2 the assistant commander for that section, each dealing with their own

3 topic?

4 A. Yes. The assistant for morale, logistics, legal affairs and so

5 on.

6 Q. So this is for the Trial Chamber to understand how this worked. So

7 as part of the 3rd Corps, the assistant for morale would summarise the

8 information that had to do with morale, and then the assistant for

9 military security would do that for the security part, and then you would

10 put all of those topics together into one report; am I correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Now, I'm correct, am I not, if I say that there was a duty shift

13 logbook which recorded each day exactly who was on duty?

14 A. Yes, that is correct.

15 Q. So we can say exactly who the operations duty officer was and who

16 was responsible for collating these reports or putting them into one

17 report?

18 A. Yes, that's correct.

19 Q. Let me ask you something about operations centres. You worked in

20 the Operations Centre in the course of 1994 and 1995, and you know where

21 these reports were sent, when we say "superior command." A moment ago,

22 you said that the reports were sent to the superior command, to the

23 General Staff. This is my question: Do you know of the existence of the

24 command post of the General Staff in Sarajevo, that's to say the Command

25 in Sarajevo; do you know that?

1 A. Yes, I do.

2 Q. Also, there was a Supreme Command Staff at the Kakanj command

3 post; do you know that?

4 A. Yes, I do.

5 Q. That is correct, isn't it?

6 A. Yes, it is. There was a command post at Kakanj.

7 Q. Please, when you say, "We submitted documents to the superior

8 command, to the Supreme Command Staff," would you please tell the Trial

9 Chamber where the 3rd Corps forwarded these reports? I'm thinking here of

10 the regular daily combat reports and interim reports.

11 A. Both of those reports, the regular and the interim ones, we would

12 be sending to the Staff in Sarajevo.

13 Q. In Sarajevo?

14 A. Yes, for a time.

15 Q. Actually, perhaps I made a mistake. I'm talking about the period

16 after the Supreme Command Staff in Kakanj was established. I'm not

17 talking about throughout the whole war. I'm talking about the period from

18 1995. I'm talking about the period of 1995.

19 A. I don't know about a specific time. For example, during the Farz

20 operation, I was not the duty operations officer, so I don't know who the

21 reports were sent to. There were --

22 Q. All right. I'm going to show you some documents regarding this

23 operations logbook, so we will come to that.

24 Before that, I just want to ask you this: You told us earlier

25 that the operations logbook was supposed to have been kept in accordance

1 with specific instructions, and we saw those instructions; is that

2 correct? And you can see that the instructions were given by the chief of

3 Staff, General Jusuf Khadr [phoen]; is that correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. But the paper we saw was not signed; is that correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Now, can you please tell the Trial Chamber what actually was that

8 operations logbook? Would you agree that that was a document of record?

9 A. The operations logbook was a document that mostly described --

10 that described what was going on at the Zenica Command Centre. The

11 operations officer would enter into the logbook the main events, what he

12 felt needed to be entered into the logbook.

13 Q. Now I would like to ask you the following: It is correct, isn't

14 it, that operations logbooks were not examined by the corps commander or

15 the chief of Staff?

16 A. No, it was looked at only by the duty officers, those who were

17 relieving each other in the shift.

18 Q. So the duty operations officer would assess which information of

19 those that were entered would be conveyed to the commander or the corps

20 commander, the chief?

21 A. Yes, if something was important and he felt that the chief of

22 Staff or the commander needed to know that, then he would go to their

23 cabinet and inform them about this.

24 Q. Before we move to the documents that I mentioned that I wanted to

25 show to you before, I want to ask you something else that has to do

1 something with the forward command posts of the 3rd Corps.

2 It's correct, isn't it, that they were formed for specific

3 assignments of shorter or longer duration; is that correct?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. For example, there was a command post Orahovo; would you agree?

6 A. Yes, there was such a command post.

7 Q. Would you agree that Orahovo was formed for activities that had to

8 do with the Sarajevo operation or the attempt to deblockade Sarajevo in

9 July 1995?

10 A. Yes, I agree.

11 Q. You know that this operation was -- bore the code signal "T"; do

12 you recall that?

13 A. Yes, I do.

14 Q. Kamenica-Luke, the forward command post, was formed for the Farz

15 operation specifically; is that correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. I would just like to ask you to clarify some codes or call signs

18 that appear in documents, because these documents come from the Operations

19 Centre.

20 Mr. Sivro, the abbreviation used "OKM" means the basic command

21 post, osnovno komandno mjesto; is that correct?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. KM, K-M, means command post, istureno komandno mjesto?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. All right. In connection with these numerous forward command

1 posts that you mentioned before and we added this one from July 1995, the

2 one in Orahovo, would you agree for each of these command posts people had

3 to be secured? I'm thinking about the officers and soldiers, in order for

4 these command posts to be able to function?

5 A. Yes, I agree.

6 Q. You needed communications equipment?

7 A. Yes, communications, logistics.

8 Q. Documentation?

9 A. Documentation.

10 Q. Can you please tell Their Honours how many of you were in the

11 Operations Centre, operatives, in 1995?

12 A. Which period are you thinking of, during the Farz operation?

13 Q. I'm thinking of the July-October 1995 period.

14 A. There were very few at the Zenica command post. I was up there at

15 the IKM. Pesto was at the Operations Centre.

16 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not understand what the

17 witness said.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. And how many operatives were there in total, if you can remember?

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: The interpreter did not understand what the witness

21 said.

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] The witness said "very few."

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There were very few of us during the

24 operation, any given operation, at the command post. Mostly, I was in the

25 field. I was not at the Operations Centre. Pesto was in the centre, and

1 everybody else was out in the field. One from combat training would

2 remain behind.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. The gist of my question is this: The Operations Centre had very

5 few people in order to cover such a number of forward command posts and

6 command posts; am I correct?

7 A. Yes, you are. Yes, you are. The Operations Centre only had two

8 officers, the chief and the desk officer. In this case, it was Pesto.

9 Q. That is why I want to ask you this: Do you agree, then, that it

10 was very difficult to check any information? Did you check at all

11 anything once you wrote it down, whatever you received?

12 A. If it was of significance, then it would be checked. Depends on

13 the importance of the information. Regular operations reports that we

14 received from the units would be important. That would be the basis for

15 us to draft our own reports. The reports that came from the units, we

16 would look at them, we would see what that was about, and then we would

17 draft our own reports. If anyone were to ask, for example, something for

18 logistics, then we, as the duty officers, would convey that to the morale

19 or the logistics section. That would be that.

20 Q. Mr. Sivro, I want to ask you this: When you received the

21 information from the subordinate unit, would you check its accuracy or

22 would you just simply copy it?

23 A. We had to write it down, copy it into the operations report.

24 Q. You would write it in, but you didn't check it?

25 A. No, we did not.

1 Q. All right, very well. I want to ask you this: If the operations

2 logbook of the 3rd Corps contained the following, connections checked with

3 everyone, with all units, meaning communications were checked, am I

4 correct if I believe that actually communications were checked with the

5 first subordinate unit with those who were directly connected to the Corps

6 Commander at that particular time?

7 A. As duty operations officer, it was our assignment to check the

8 units, to have all the subordinate units report back to us; not all of us,

9 but this would be throughout the day, maybe at 9.00 or 10.00 in the

10 morning, if we were at the command -- at the forward command post. If an

11 operation was underway, then the commander there would do that, check the

12 connections with the subordinate units.

13 Q. I'm talking about the first subordinate units to you, for example,

14 divisions.

15 A. For example, yes, if something was wrong, I would call the

16 operations group, or actually it was already the division, the 35th

17 Division, "Is everything all right, are the communication functioning,"

18 and that's what I would do. I didn't call the 318th, the 320th and so on.

19 Q. All right, thank you very much. That is the gist of my question.

20 Now, when you mentioned field telephones, induction telephones,

21 you remember during these operations, it's correct, isn't it, that in

22 August 1995 there was a shortage of cables and other spare parts? Do you

23 recall that?

24 A. I don't recall specifically for August, but let's say at the start

25 of the offensive or, actually, at the beginning of the operations, I

1 recall that there was a shortage of induction telephones because that was

2 something that was mentioned in the briefing by the communications or the

3 signals chief, but I don't recall everything.

4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right, thank you.

5 Your Honours, I would like the witness to look at document P2453

6 now.

7 For the transcript, that is the monthly analysis of the 3rd Corps

8 for August 1995.

9 Can we please have the witness look at page 10 of the document.

10 Actually, that is page 14 of the English version, Your Honours.

11 Q. Can I please ask you to look where it talks about problems. Can

12 you look at that?

13 A. Can we zoom in a little bit?

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Your Honours, it's above the

15 heading, in the English version, the heading "Deployment," just above

16 that.

17 Q. Can you please look? It says the problem, lack of PTK cable,

18 manual UHF stations, spare parts for repair of radio equipment, because a

19 quick way to repair materiel and technical equipment has not been solved,

20 so MTS is material and equipment.

21 Do you recall anything about this, Mr. Sivro? If you don't --

22 A. No, I don't know anything.

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right.

24 Your Honours, can this document be marked for identification? I'm

25 not going to spend more time on it.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is marked for identification. May it

2 please be given an exhibit number.

3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be MFI 520.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

5 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Let me go back to the information we spoke about a moment ago.

7 You said that you received information from subordinate units, and

8 I'm referring to the information that is subsequently entered into the

9 operations diaries, and then if somebody reported to you on something at a

10 later date, you would include that information, too?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. Based on your own assessments, you would draft a report for your

13 own commander and superior command; in other words, you were in a position

14 to assess which information to include?

15 A. Yes, that was the information that we wrote.

16 Q. Very well. You received reports from all subordinate units of the

17 3rd Corps on a regular basis; is that right?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Let me ask you specifically about the El Mujahedin Detachment.

20 You were located in the Operations Centre. This is my question: Did you

21 ever take in your hands a report sent directly to the 3rd Corps from the

22 El Mujahedin Detachment in the period while you worked in this Operations

23 Centre?

24 A. No, I never received a report from them, either when I was in the

25 Operations Centre or at the IKM. They placed a telephone call -- they

1 placed a call two or three times, I don't know what it was about, but I

2 made note of it. In other words, I never received a report from there.

3 Q. We will come back to how they introduced themselves to you later

4 on. Did you ever receive such reports from any other units of the 3rd

5 Corps?

6 A. Yes, from those who were in direct communication with the 3rd

7 Corps, we did. Sometimes it so happened that we wouldn't receive a

8 report, but normally we received regularly these reports.

9 Q. And that was almost on a daily basis?

10 A. Yes, on a daily basis.

11 Q. Mr. Sivro, please look again at the document that was shown to you

12 by the Prosecutor today. That's P518. That's Exhibit P518.

13 Mr. Sivro, you saw this logbook, didn't you?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Before you testified about this logbook, when you were being

16 proofed for this testimony, did you have a good look at this book?

17 A. Well, yes. This book is more or less well known to me. Sometimes

18 I signed something that concerned me, but otherwise it concerned the

19 headquarters administration. I didn't have much business to do with them.

20 Q. This is the gist of my question: The dispatch book is a document

21 of the headquarters administration, and you didn't have any dealings with

22 it, did you?

23 A. No. I would receive a report once every one or two months or

24 something like that.

25 Q. Do you agree, in principle, that all types of documents such as

1 this one had to be certified before they are logged, and I mean certify

2 with a stamp.

3 A. Every document, we used to refer to logbooks such as this one as

4 documents, had to contain an instruction at the very beginning, the number

5 of pages, and then at the end of that logbook the accuracy of this

6 document would be certified with the chief of -- by the chief of Staff

7 with a stamp.

8 Q. In other words, it would be certified thus?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Please look at page 2 of this document. Look at this. It

11 says "the new bridge Seliste." Does this mean anything to you?

12 A. No.

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] We want the Trial Chamber to see the

14 next page, too.

15 Q. This is a place name, is it not? Can you make any inferences from

16 this?

17 A. No, none.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, can we turn to page 3

19 now.

20 Q. Mr. Sivro, look at this. On the face of it, does this document

21 indicate that it is a document of the 3rd Corps? Did you see any

22 references to the 3rd Corps or anything of the sort?

23 A. No, there's nothing to that effect.

24 Q. Mr. Sivro, look at the columns in this log.

25 Your Honours, I wish to make a correction for the record. Can the

1 witness please read the columns out, since they were not properly

2 translated into English?

3 Q. Mr. Sivro, can you please read for the Bench what the headings of

4 these columns are? The first one is date. Can you read them through, one

5 by one?

6 A. "Date of receipt and delivery," "Type of mail -- reference number,

7 type of mail," "sender," "receiver," and the signature of the receiver.

8 Q. Can you read column number 3 once more, slowly?

9 A. "Type of dispatch." It says here, as far as I can see, "Sum."

10 Q. "Sum"?

11 A. That's at least how I read it, yes. A monetary amount, a sum.

12 Q. Mr. Sivro, it seems that the interpreters don't understand. Can

13 you -- will you agree if I read? "Type of package" or "shipment," and

14 beneath it, it says "Monetary amount"; is that correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. That was the gist of my question, and I didn't see that in the

17 record. Next follows some columns and figures. Please, let's look at

18 something which wasn't translated into English. In the top right-hand

19 corner, do you see -- agree that it says "Form KP-6"?

20 A. Can it be enlarged, please? "Form KP-6".

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, first of all, may this

22 translation be corrected?

23 Q. Mr. Sivro, let me ask you this: Do you agree that it is common

24 knowledge, if you know, that the KP-6 form is a purely financial document,

25 if you know?

1 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please repeat his answer?

2 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. If you look at --

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can the witness please repeat his answer?

5 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] He said, "I don't know."

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know about a KP-6 being a

7 financial form.

8 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you agree that this type of document is not the type

10 of dispatch logbook normally produced by the 3rd Corps? Why would it

11 contain this reference to a monetary amount, and can you tell us what this

12 book is about? Can you state whether it is a 3rd Corps logbook?

13 A. Only on the basis of the receiver can I conclude that, because

14 there I see that 3rd Corps units are listed, and it's only on that basis

15 that I could conclude that it is of the 3rd Corps.

16 Q. Very well. But you did not have any dealings with this type of --

17 A. No, no. With this type of dispatch log, no.

18 Q. Of the dispatch logbook. Mr. Sivro, can you please speak more

19 slowly and clearly, because not everything you say is being recorded.

20 You said to us a moment ago that the logbooks of outgoing mail and

21 incoming mail had to bear a stamp, had to be certified by a stamp and had

22 to be signed at the end; this is something you told us, right?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. If they are filled out to the full, they always had to contain the

25 exact number of pages. The person keeping the records had to note down

1 how many pages the logbook had in order to avoid any additional pages

2 being added to it?

3 A. Yes. As I said, in the beginning the book had to say how many

4 pages it had, and at the end you had to have the stamp of the Staff or

5 whoever was the one keeping the record.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, can we look at page 21

7 in the B/C/S and page 15 in English.

8 Q. Do you agree that judging by what we see, one would conclude that

9 this is where the document ends; is that right?

10 A. Yes, yes, this is where it should end.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well.

12 Your Honours, may we turn to the following page.

13 Q. Do you agree that this document isn't certified at all?

14 A. Well, if this is the last page, then it is not.

15 Q. Do you agree that it does not contain the total number of pages,

16 either?

17 A. No, because it would normally have the page number in the top

18 right-hand corner.

19 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] I have no further questions in

20 relation to this document. If we could remove it, please.

21 I want the witness to be shown MFI 519. Very well.

22 Q. I want to remind you that you testified about this logbook of the

23 3rd Corps IKM today.

24 A. I remember that.

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Can this document please be removed

1 now. I want the witness to be shown document D439. I want to explain to

2 you that this is a set of documents. Due to the fact that we picked out

3 only relevant pages for the Defence and the operations diary that the

4 Prosecution wanted to have admit, it was not translated fully. This was

5 why we had to prepare an exhibit differently.

6 At this time, Your Honours, in order for you to be able to follow

7 my examination, I believe it best to distribute copies of this document.

8 Otherwise, it will be quite difficult to follow my questions. Can copies

9 please be distributed to the witness, the Bench and learned friends from

10 the Prosecution.

11 Q. Witness, please commit to your memory this strictly-confidential

12 number that you see here.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Which strictly-confidential number?

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, in the corner of the

15 Bosnian version, the upper right-hand corner, it says: "Strictly

16 confidential 02/3-1-381" and you have it in the upper right-hand corner of

17 the English version, too.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

19 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. Witness, am I right in believing that this strictly-confidential

21 number relates to the IKM logbook and that subsequent numbers registered

22 in the logbook would follow up on this one; am I right?

23 A. Which one?

24 Q. Please look at this number. Yes, that one. This is the number of

25 this particular logbook, is it not? These are numbers that the documents

1 in this logbook are given, or rather it is on the basis of this number

2 that the documents referenced in the logbook are numbered, it's just

3 another digit that is added to this; is that right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Let me remind you of what we talked about a moment ago when you

6 said that documents were sent to the General Staff.

7 I want you to turn to page 5 of the Bosnian version, which is page

8 3 of the English version, Your Honours. This is an excerpt from the 3rd

9 Corps IKM logbook, entry for the 15th of September.

10 Can you please have a look at that.

11 A. Which page, page 5?

12 Q. Yes, page 5. Let me just observe that it was copied in such a way

13 that the page was split.

14 Look at the entry for the 15th of September, please. I'm speaking

15 about the portion in the last column, where it says: "Regular BI GS ABH,"

16 that's to say the General Staff of the BH Army, and then IKM of the 3rd

17 Corps, and then "A/A"; is that right?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Now I would like you to look at the previous. Can you please

20 find -- can you look at the previous page to see which logbook number was

21 given to this entry. And you will -- previous page, Mr. Sivro, number

22 313; is that correct? Would you agree that this number, 313 --

23 A. Yes, yes.

24 Q. So 313 refers to the entry of the 15th of September; is that

25 correct?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And you can see that it says the General Staff of the BH Army, it

3 doesn't say "Sarajevo." It doesn't say "Sarajevo" or "Kakanj" here in

4 this column that you were looking at before.

5 A. Yes, "BH Army" and" OKM of the 3rd Corps." It does not

6 say "Sarajevo."

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Which column are you referring to, Madam Vidovic?

8 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm thinking of the

9 last column in the English version.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Column number 10?

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, number 10, yes.

12 Q. And now I would like to ask you this: Do you agree that this

13 number, 313, must be added to the number that we had on the cover page,

14 and that is how we get the number of the document; am I correct?

15 A. Yes.

16 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Can we now please look at page 6 of

17 this set of documents, Mr. Sivro, page --

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before we leave this page, I just want to

19 understand what the title "Designation" in column 10 is supposed to mean.

20 Do we designate the recipient of the document or the -- what's being

21 designated there?

22 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour, you are right.

23 It's designated -- actually, the person the witness is -- the person the

24 document is being sent to or the person that receives it. I'm sorry, I

25 thought we were talking about the witness.

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This document is dispatched to the

2 units that are entered here.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: The General Staff of the Army of the Republic of

4 Bosnia and Herzegovina Main Staff at OKM 3K basic command post. Thank you

5 very much.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Not the forward command post but the

7 basic command post in Zenica.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, basic command post, and then also sent to

9 archive. But we must also make a note that Zenica is not mentioned in

10 that column.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Correct, Your Honour.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The main command post was in Zenica,

13 so mostly those who wrote it would not write down "Zenica." It was known

14 which command post -- or the basic command post was at Zenica.

15 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. Can you just read what Their Honours are asking you?

17 A. Yes, yes.

18 Q. Can we now look at page 6 of this set of documents.

19 Your Honours, that is page 4 of the English version.

20 Do you see that, Mr. Sivro? You can see it here and you can also

21 have it on the screen.

22 A. Yes, I can see it's a regular combat report.

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, could we please zoom

24 in on the top part in English and in B/C/S.

25 Q. Mr. Sivro, I am now asking you to look at the following. Do you

1 agree that this is a document of the 3rd Corps, from most probably -- you

2 mentioned the paragraphs earlier -- as the forward command post. I'm now

3 just asking you to look at this number of this document, and do you

4 agree -- look at the number on the operations logbook, in the notebook.

5 This number, 313, that this corresponds to this number that we saw for the

6 15th of September, 1995.

7 A. Strictly-confidential number 02/3-1-381-313. That's that.

8 Q. So do you agree that that is the number of the document that has

9 been entered for the 15th of September, 1995?

10 A. Yes, I agree, and it was sent from the forward command post of the

11 3rd Corps.

12 Q. Can you please look at to whom the document was sent to. Can you

13 read that?

14 A. It was sent to the General Staff of the Army of Bosnia and

15 Herzegovina, Kakanj, the basic command post of the 3rd Corps, for their

16 information, and the forward command post of the 2nd Corps, Kuburic.

17 Q. And now do you agree -- so earlier you saw that in the operations

18 logbook -- can you please now look again at the entry for the 15th of

19 September so you can compare that.

20 Your Honours, you also have that on page 3 of the English version.

21 And can you please look at page 5 again, and I'm just, please,

22 asking you to compare what it says in the logbook and to look at and see

23 what is written in the document. Do you agree that it just says the

24 General Staff of the army, and the person who would open the logbook would

25 not know whether it was sent to Sarajevo or to Kakanj, am I correct,

1 according to your operations logbook?

2 A. This is the logbook.

3 Q. So according to the logbook, you would not see where the document

4 had gone to; do you agree? It says "The General Staff," and you before

5 told us that this was Sarajevo. But can you see that the document

6 actually went to Kakanj, please?

7 A. Well, all right. Whoever was doing the entries in the logbook was

8 not doing that job properly.

9 Q. Yes, that is why I wanted that. Can you look at something else?

10 Do you agree that the document was also sent to the IKM of the 2nd

11 Corps of Kuburic and that this was not entered in the logbook at all?

12 A. Yes, it wasn't written, and I repeat, the person who was making

13 the entries of the logbook from the IKM of the 3rd Corps was not doing

14 their job correctly.

15 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right. And now, Your Honours,

16 if the witness can look at page 10 of this set of documents. This is page

17 10 of the English version also.

18 And you have it here. You can see the entry before last, and it's

19 on the screen at the moment.

20 Q. We see the same thing, the General Staff of the Army of the BiH,

21 OKM of the 3rd Corps, GLOC-Visoko, and a slash, a regular combat report.

22 You could see that's how that entry was made; is that correct, Mr. Sivro?

23 A. Yes.

24 MS. VIDOVIC: And now I would like you to just look at the

25 previous page of the Bosnian version, and that is still page 10 of the

1 English version, Your Honours. I just want you to see.

2 Q. Do you agree that for this date, the number 326 was entered, 327?

3 A. Yes, 327 is entered.

4 Q. All right. And now, please, number 327, can you please check, it

5 refers to strictly confidential for the 16th of September; is that

6 correct?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Very well. So this number, strictly confidential, would need to

9 have the number 02/3-1-381/327, this number that is added here; is that

10 correct?

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. And now I would like to ask you to look at page 11 of this set of

13 documents. This is page 11 in the English version, Your Honours. The

14 document has the title. Can you please look at that?

15 A. "Regular Combat Report."

16 Q. All right. And you can see the number can be seen clearly here?

17 A. "327", the last number.

18 Q. Do you agree that is the number we earlier found in the logbook?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And do you agree that there it just said "Sent to the General

21 Staff," and if you look here, would you agree that the document was again

22 sent to the General Staff of the Army of Bosnia and Herzegovina, KM

23 Kakanj, and can you please look at the other addressees of this document?

24 And particularly pay attention here to this third thing. It says: "Sent

25 to the GLOC at Visoko, to Halid Cengic personally"?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And could you please look at the previous page?

3 A. Regular combat report sent to the General Staff of the Army of

4 Bosnia and Herzegovina, main -- or basic command post of the 3rd Corps,

5 GLOC-Visoko.

6 Q. Thank you very much. I ask you not to shout at me. I am doing my

7 job here. I'm sorry, Witness and Your Honours.

8 I would ask you, Witness, now to look at this. So this document

9 has been sent to the GLOC-Visoko, to Halid Cengic personally. Would you

10 agree that this, to Mr. Halid Cengic personally, is not something that is

11 mentioned, do you agree, in the logbook?

12 A. Yes, it is not mentioned in the logbook of the IKM of the 3rd

13 Corps.

14 Q. And do you agree that these logbooks actually do not provide a

15 precise picture or that they give imprecise information about where the

16 documents are actually dispatched, do you agree, on the basis of what we

17 have seen?

18 A. On the basis of what we have seen, I agree.

19 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] So they missed the delivery to

20 IKM 1, Kuburic, then the name of the person that it is being sent to in

21 the GLOC-Visoko. And, Your Honours, we here have a series of documents,

22 but there is no need. I think if you believe that it is necessary, I can

23 demonstrate each document of the General Staff that is included in this

24 document refers to Kakanj. I think that I have demonstrated sufficiently,

25 and these documents here are a part of this exhibit. But if you believe,

1 I can continue to elaborate, because this is very important for the

2 Defence.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please don't give closing argument, Madam Vidovic.

4 Just carry on, do what you have to do.

5 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well, Your Honours. I just

6 wanted to cut things short. Perhaps the demonstration of these kind of

7 documents -- the demonstration of these type of documents. But, all

8 right, very well, I will continue.

9 Q. Please, can you look at page 15 of this document, or, rather, page

10 16 of this document or of this set of documents, or rather page 15. I

11 apologise. Page 15.

12 And, Your Honours, that is on page 16 of the English version.

13 Can you look at that again, please?

14 A. Yes, just one moment.

15 Q. Please answer.

16 A. I've seen it.

17 Q. This last entry?

18 A. Regular combat report dispatched to the General Staff of the Army

19 of Bosnia and Herzegovina, GLOC is the basic command post of the 3rd

20 Corps.

21 Q. And now I would like to ask you to look at page 14 of the Bosnian

22 version of the set of documents.

23 Your Honours, that is page 16 of the English version.

24 I would like to ask you to remember this number. Do you agree

25 that the reference number is 549 for the 2nd of October?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. All right. Therefore, this document of the 2nd of October, 1995,

3 would have the number strictly confidential 02/3-1-381/549; would you

4 agree?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And now I would like you to look at again page 16 of this set of

7 documents.

8 And that is page 17, Your Honours, of the English version. And if

9 we can look at the front part of the document, if we can zoom in on that

10 part.

11 Can you see, Mr. Sivro, this number here 02/3-1-381/549 of the 2nd

12 of October; do you agree that that is that number? It has 549 that you

13 saw earlier in the logbook, and please can you check once again?

14 A. I checked. Yes, that is the number.

15 Q. And can you please now look at where this document was delivered?

16 A. In the logbook, it says it was sent to the General Staff of the

17 Army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, GLOC main command post of the

18 3rd Corps.

19 Q. And who is it dispatched to here?

20 A. It's dispatched to the General Staff of the Army of the Republic

21 of Bosnia-Herzegovina, Kakanj, for information purposes of the 3rd Corps

22 and the forward command post of the 2nd Corps, Kuburic, the Command of the

23 7th Corps, GLOC-Visoko, personally to Mr. Alija Cengic.

24 Q. Do you agree again that this document or this logbook gives

25 imprecise and unreliable information to whom exactly the documents were

1 delivered?

2 A. The date is incorrect, it's incorrect.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right, thank you very much.

4 Your Honours, can this document be given an exhibit number,

5 please.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

7 please be given an exhibit number.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 521.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

10 Madam Vidovic, your hour seems to be up.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, with your permission,

12 I don't have many more questions, but I really believe that it's important

13 for the witness here to clarify. So if I can be given a little bit more

14 time, please.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Proceed, madam.

16 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honours.

17 I would now like the witness to look at document D441.

18 Your Honours, I apologise. I have decided to cut short my

19 questioning even more.

20 Can we please look at MFI 511. MFI 511.

21 Q. Do you recall seeing this document?

22 A. Yes, I do.

23 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Can it be, please, removed now?

24 Can the witness be shown D444, entitled "Operations Diary."

25 Your Honours, we made excerpts from the diary because of

1 incomplete translation. Only small portions of this document were, in

2 fact, translated as PT. I will ask that hard copies of the document be

3 distributed again.

4 Q. While this is being handed down, I will ask you the following,

5 Mr. Sivro, to save time: You said that you kept the operations diary in

6 the month of September of 1995; is that right? You recall that?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Very well. Before you started testifying here, or rather during

9 proofing, did you have a good look at this document from the beginning to

10 the end?

11 A. Well, not from the beginning to the end. Only to the part that

12 concerned me. I only looked at the parts that I wrote.

13 Q. Very well. Please look at page 3 of the document now.

14 This is page 2 of the English version, Your Honours.

15 Can you please confirm for us that the starting date of this

16 diary, with number 1, starts on the 26th of August, 1995; is that right?

17 Am I right, Mr. Sivro? Please have a look.

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. Please look at the bottom of the page, too. We can always see who

20 handed the duty shift over and to whom, who received the duty shift at the

21 end of each day; is that right?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Please look at the penultimate page of the document, which is page

24 34 of the Bosnian version and page 3 of the English version, Your Honours.

25 Do you agree that the last entry here is number 560; is that

1 right?

2 A. Yes.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Please look at the following page.

4 Your Honours, perhaps this should be a good moment to make a

5 break. I will not have too many questions after the break.

6 The witness says that it would be good to have a break now.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. We'll give you a break, sir.

8 We'll take a break for 30 minutes and come back at quarter to

9 6.00.

10 Court adjourned.

11 --- Recess taken at 5.15 p.m.

12 --- On resuming at 5.47 p.m.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

15 Q. Witness, we left off dealing with this document that you have

16 before you, the excerpt from the operations log. We stopped at page 34 in

17 the Bosnian version, which was page 3 of the English version.

18 You saw and said that the last number was -- the last number of

19 the entry was 560. Please turn to the following page, that's to say page

20 35 of the Bosnian version.

21 Your Honours, that's page 4 of the English version.

22 Please look at what the document says. Can you see it on your

23 screen?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. Do you agree that it says that this notebook has 95 sheets, and

1 this is certified by Colonel Ribo; do you recognise this person?

2 A. Yes. This was the chief of Department for Operations and

3 Training, Colonel Haso Ribo.

4 Q. And the number of the book is 35, the reference number; is that

5 right?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. And this is something you discussed when testifying about

8 different types of logbooks and diaries, where you said that this type of

9 document had to have this certification and the sum total of pages?

10 A. Yes. I said that both at the beginning of the logbook and at the

11 end, it had to state the number of pages in total and there had to be the

12 name of the person certifying this.

13 Q. Mr. Sivro, I asked my learned friend from the OTP to bring over an

14 original. I believe you have the original of this document now with you.

15 Can you please have a look at it.

16 I'm asking my learned friends to confirm whether this is indeed

17 the document that the witness has before him now. Yes, thank you very

18 much.

19 Mr. Sivro, have a look at this. Do you agree that the document

20 states that there are 95 sheets, it says, that's pages?

21 A. Ninety-five sheets.

22 Q. Please, can you check and see how many sheets the document has? I

23 managed to count 35.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: You've asked that question, Madam Vidovic, and the

25 witness said, "Yes, this has the chief of -- this was the chief of

1 Department for Operation and Training, Colonel Haso Ribo." At page 69,

2 line 19: "Do you agree that it says that this notebook has 95 sheets and

3 this is certified by Colonel Ribo; do you recognise this person?"

4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Ninety-five pages.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes. You said "95 sheets" there.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: But I'm saying you're asking the same question

8 again.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm not. I'm asking

10 the witness to double-check the number of pages and see how many sheets

11 there are, in fact. I did the checking, but I'd like the witness to check

12 that, too.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: But you were not asking to double-check, because at

14 line 13, page 70, you say: "Mr. Sivro, have a look at this. Do you agree

15 that the document states that there are 95 sheets?" That's when I

16 interrupted you. You were not saying, "Can you double-check?"

17 Okay. If you're double-checking, double-check, Madam Vidovic.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Perhaps

19 this was not included in the interpretation you received, but this is what

20 I meant.

21 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you understand my request of you to check the number

22 of pages?

23 A. Yes. This book was finished at one point, and it should have been

24 written that it was ended there. We can see that some pages were torn,

25 and in fact it does not have as many pages as is stated here, it doesn't

1 have 95 pages.

2 Q. In other words, pages are missing?

3 A. Pages 19 to 91 are missing. These were probably blank pages that

4 were torn off by someone. Perhaps they needed the paper. But at any

5 rate, they should not have done that.

6 Q. This is what you believe happened, but in fact you don't know what

7 happened to the missing pages?

8 A. No, I don't.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry, Madam Vidovic, if I may interrupt.

10 Sir, you say pages 90 to 91 are missing, but in the copies that we

11 are given, I do have 90 and 91.

12 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the witness is looking

13 at the original of the diary.

14 Q. Witness, can you tell us once more, for the sake of the

15 transcript, which pages in the original -- from which page to which page

16 are missing?

17 A. There is page 19, and after page 19 --

18 Q. Yes.

19 A. After page 19, the pages are missing until page 91. These were

20 blank pages.

21 Q. Do you agree that where the entries in the diary end, this is

22 where it should be stated that the book ends there; do you agree with me?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. You don't know what happened to the missing parts of it, you don't

25 know about that?

1 A. No, I don't.

2 Q. Thank you.

3 MS. VIDOVIC: This is the reason why I opposed the admission of

4 this document into evidence, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: I have a problem with what has been going on right

6 now, and I would like you to please clear me.

7 Mr. Witness, is the first page of this document not a cover page

8 like that? I'm sorry. That's what I have. Can we put this cover page on

9 the screen, please. Right. Isn't that the beginning of the book, the

10 cover page of the book from the beginning, sir? Look at your monitor.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, this is the start of

12 the operations logbook.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's right. Now, can you read the number of that

14 page, please. No, no. Look at the screen, sir, and read the number of

15 that page. 01855061. It starts at page 61.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Now, when you say that pages 19 and some other

18 number are missing, I don't understand you, because it doesn't seem to me

19 like page 19 would be part of this book.

20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, if I may be of

21 assistance. The witness has the original version in front of him. All of

22 us have a photocopy. And the witness is referring to the pages as seen in

23 the original.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic, I understand that. All I'm saying

25 is this page 61 is a cover page of the book.

1 [Trial Chamber confers]

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: ... and that is the --

3 THE INTERPRETER: The witness, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: No, I'm still trying to talk to Judge Harhoff.

5 [Trial Chamber confers]

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Witness, there are two types of numbers on this

7 book. I would like to know which numbers are you talking about. There is

8 the number that I've just referred you to, 01855061. There is the number

9 in our photocopy, the second page after the cover page. It's a page which

10 I think you testified to and said was instructions, and it was drafted by

11 you.

12 The third page, there is a 1 that's written by hand. Now, I don't

13 know when you say page 19, are you starting from this one or are you

14 starting from this 61? I would like you to tell us what is it -- which

15 numbers are you talking about here before I carry on with my questions?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'm talking about the

17 operations logbook or diary, which was certified by the chief of Staff for

18 Operations and Training, and I'm referring to the numbers of the pages

19 contained in this notebook. The document was kept from page 1, which was

20 handwritten, to page 17 and 18, which are there, and then the pages up to

21 91 are missing, they are blank. We probably relocated to a different IKM.

22 I'm not receiving interpretation.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: You say pages after 18, pages up to 91 are missing,

24 they are blank. Now, which is which; are they missing or are they blank?

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They are blank. This diary is

1 complete, it's finished.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. So those pages are there, but they are not

3 written on?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They are blank, but they are missing

5 here. This operations logbook was finished.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Wait a minute, wait a minute. You see, why do we

7 conduct a trial with books that are not the same? We should have here

8 what he has there. If we don't have that, then I can't accept this book.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this is why I wanted

10 to look at the original. If I can assist by putting a question to the

11 witness, and perhaps I can clarify this situation and assist by asking a

12 question of the witness.

13 Q. Witness, please, when you count the blank pages that exist there,

14 are there a total of 95?

15 A. If the pages were there, there would be 95.

16 Q. But I'm asking are there, are those pages there?

17 A. No, they are not. They are missing.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Perhaps Your Honours can also look

19 at the original.

20 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. Mr. Sivro, in connection with this one last question, is it not

23 allowed, in this type of document, to have blank pages before

24 certification because anyone can then enter whatever they want into such a

25 book?

1 A. That's how it should be, yes.

2 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] All right, very well.

3 Your Honours, I just have one small group of questions now, if I

4 may proceed.

5 Can the witness at this point look at D442, please. D442.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic, what are we supposed to do with

7 D444?

8 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Can we

9 please have the document be given an exhibit number.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: D444 is admitted into evidence. May it please be

11 given an exhibit number.

12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 522.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Mr. Sivro, before we get the document, I just want to put two

16 questions like this to you, please: We have the operations diary and we

17 have the war diary. Both of these documents are documents with --

18 documents of record?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. If one and the same event is recorded in the war diary and in the

21 operations diary, it would have to contain the same information; is that

22 correct?

23 A. If it's recorded and if the information is all right, then, yes,

24 it would have to be like that.

25 Q. So if it's one event that happened at one point in time and it's

1 the same, it has to be presented in the same way both in the war and the

2 operations diary; am I correct?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. All right. Now I would like to ask you, please, to look at this

5 document. First of all, it contains an excerpt from the operations diary

6 for the 26th of the 19th, or actually for the 26th of September, at 1810

7 hours, and I would like you at this point in time to look at a note from

8 the operations diary bearing the number 433 and 433 for the 26th of

9 September. That is the second page of the Bosnian and the English

10 version. Second page, please.

11 I would like to draw your attention here, Witness, please, to this

12 event that occurred at 1810 hours under number 433. Can you see that it

13 says "1810 hours," the 26th of September is the date, and it says -- can

14 you please follow the data carefully, and it says:

15 "Major Enes Dolic reported that two Chetnik rocket projectiles

16 were fired around 1800 hours from the villages Radnja-Vitkovci in the

17 direction of Zenica, and then at 1820 hours the commander of the 3rd Corps

18 ordered that three artillery projectiles be fired on the town of Doboj due

19 to the firing of Chetnik rockets on Zenica". Do you see that?

20 A. Yes, I do.

21 Q. All right. Can we please have you remember this information and

22 now I would like to ask you to look at page 3 of the document. This time,

23 it's an excerpt from the war diary. This was the operations diary, and

24 now here comes the excerpt from the war diary of the 3rd Corps Command,

25 which also is marked with "F," and that would indicate "Farz"; is that

1 correct?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Can you please look at page 4 of the document, page 4 of the

4 document. Can you please look -- the English version is all right, too.

5 And can you please look at the bottom of the page. You will see, around

6 1810, can you see, it says: "Around 1810 Major Enes Dolic informed that

7 two projectiles were fired around 1800 hours from the Chetnik military

8 positions in the direction of Zenica."

9 Do you recognise this information, this information of the 26th of

10 September at 1810 hours? Do you see that, do you recognise it?

11 A. Yes, I see it.

12 Q. All right. And now it says: "Due to the mentioned activity of the

13 aggressor, the commander of the 3rd Corps issued an order to fire three

14 Howitzer shells on the command post of the Operative Group Doboj."

15 And now, please, I would like to ask you the following: Do you

16 agree that both of these documents, both of these excerpts, excerpts one

17 from the operations diary and the second from the war diary, talk about

18 the call of Major Enes Dolic and the order of the commander of the 3rd

19 Corps, Mahmuljin at 1810 hours? Please, do you agree that here in the

20 first it says that two projectiles were fired in the direction of Zenica,

21 and that here in this last part an order was made to fire a military

22 target, the command post of the Operations Group Doboj?

23 A. Yes, yes, I see that.

24 Q. Please, according to the operations diary, you saw that it said

25 fire three projectiles from artillery weapons on the town of Doboj; do you

1 understand the difference, Mr. Sivro? You're a soldier.

2 A. I understand the difference.

3 Q. How can you explain that?

4 A. The operations diary was probably -- the entry was made by the

5 duty officer, and the war diary was written by somebody else.

6 Q. By somebody less educated or trained?

7 A. Well, the person who wrote into the war diary is more trained,

8 because he wrote that military targets were being fired at.

9 Q. Thank you very much for the explanation. Perhaps I wasn't clear

10 enough.

11 Now, please, do you now understand these two documents as

12 indicating, isn't it, a different, completely different essence? In one,

13 the commander of the 3rd Corps orders an attack on a legitimate target,

14 the commander of an operations group, and in the second one it says fire

15 on the town of Doboj. Please, is that the same?

16 A. No, it's not the same. This major here did not understand the

17 order of the commander and the person who recorded the entry in the war

18 diary probably spoke with the commander and he knew what the commander

19 meant.

20 Q. Do you then agree that one very crucial fact here would indicate

21 that the corps commander could be sent to prison for firing on the town of

22 Doboj. Do you understand that this type of document is such that the

23 reliability of the facts cannot be established on the basis of the entries

24 here?

25 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please repeat his answer.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Witness, you're asked to repeat your answer.

2 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. Can you please repeat your last answer, Mr. Sivro?

4 A. I agree. I agree that information that individual duty officers,

5 especially those who did not have any particular experience, did not make

6 the entries in the way that it actually happened.

7 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

8 Your Honours, can this document please be given an exhibit number.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it

10 please be given an exhibit number.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 523.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, at this point I have

14 no further questions for this witness.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Madam Vidovic.

16 Any re-examination, Mr. Menon?

17 MR. MENON: Yes, Your Honour. If I could just have a second to

18 get the podium up.

19 JUDGE HARHOFF: Madam Vidovic, sorry, before the Prosecution

20 starts, can I just follow up on one little question relating to your last

21 question to the witness.

22 Just exactly where was the aggressor's command post located? Was

23 it in Doboj town or outside?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The command post of the operations

25 group of Doboj, as far as I know, was in Doboj. It was in Doboj.

1 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, it was in Doboj. But, Your

2 Honours, if you permit me just one question.

3 Q. Do you agree that it's not the same to issue an order to fire at

4 the Command of the operations group and to fire at the town of Doboj?

5 A. Of course, it's not logical to issue an order to fire at the town

6 of Doboj.

7 Q. And do you agree that we have two different pieces of information

8 on the same event? Do you agree with that?

9 A. Yes, I do.

10 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I wanted to know one thing.

11 Doboj, was the city of Doboj attacked, together with its civilian

12 population?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We were attacked from the town of

14 Doboj. We, when I say "we," I mean the B and H Army.

15 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] But as far as defence operation

16 is concerned, did you attack only the enemy, the militaries, or did you

17 respond by also attacking the civilian population?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. The Army of the Republic of

19 Bosnia and Herzegovina never attacked civilians, only military targets.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon, any re-examination?

21 MR. MENON: Yes, Your Honour.

22 I would ask -- we had marked Exhibit PT2463 as being marked for

23 identification. I would ask that that be tendered into evidence at this

24 point. I think I had laid a foundation for the admission of that

25 document.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: PT?

2 MR. MENON: It was PT -- P02463. It had been marked for

3 identification as 511.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: PT2463 or 2063?

5 MR. MENON: It was 2463, Your Honour.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: 2463.

7 MR. MENON: Yeah.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: And it was marked for identification as what?

9 MR. MENON: 511.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, am I correct if I

12 assume that this is the most recent document that we discussed, that the

13 witness looked at? Your Honours, I would like it for the transcript to

14 record that I oppose the introduction of this document. I dispute the

15 authenticity of the document, because the witness has already finished,

16 and that the Prosecution did not establish a sufficient basis for the

17 document to be admitted into the case file.

18 MR. MENON: Your Honour, if I may. I marked that -- I marked this

19 document for identification as a courtesy to the Defence. I certainly

20 felt that at the time that I had the foundation to admit the document, so

21 I certainly do think it is an appropriate time for the document to be

22 admitted.

23 In terms of the authenticity of the document, I was listening very

24 carefully during the course of Madam Vidovic's cross-examination, and I

25 don't think her cross-examination touched upon the contents of the

1 document certainly as it exists in -- as an exhibit in this case. Whether

2 there were pages missing or not, certainly that's not -- we wouldn't use

3 the fact that there were pages missing to prove a point. We were using

4 the contents of the document, what was in the document and what was shown

5 to the witness to make our point.

6 [Trial Chamber confers]

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm going to ask, perhaps not today but during

8 final arguments, the parties to give guidance to this Court as to what to

9 do with documents that are marked for identification, are used for

10 leading, are used for cross-examination, and then we are supposed not to

11 admit them. I just don't know. It's a very strange procedure, this. A

12 document that is not being admitted should not be discussed on the

13 transcript. It should be stopped from word "go" and be thrown out

14 completely.

15 Now, I want to know, what are we going to do with that part of the

16 transcript, Madam Vidovic, that you used to attack this document if this

17 document is not part of the record.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think and the

19 practice that I have had so far, is that that part of the transcript by

20 any means does remain. Simply, the document is not admitted. This is

21 according to the practice that I have followed so far on this Tribunal.

22 The document is not admitted unless the party that -- unless the party

23 that is asking for it to be admitted has not provided sufficient arguments

24 or the other side is more persuasive, but the transcript remains. At

25 least that was the practice in the case before this Tribunal that I was

1 involved in before. That is the practice that was followed by the Trial

2 Chamber.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: My question, then, is: What impact does that

4 transcript have on the case? Because my understanding of not admitting a

5 document or an exhibit is that it is not here, we haven't spoken about it,

6 its existence is not reflected on the transcript. Now, you have

7 cross-examined, you have lead all this information --

8 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon. And I'm just asking for

10 guidance. What do we then do with that part of the transcript when the

11 document is not there for us to say -- to make a determination at that

12 stage?

13 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I may, it is my

14 position that the transcript should reflect precisely what happened in the

15 courtroom. It should be evident that the party, either the Prosecution or

16 the Defence, attempted to have the document admitted, that contrary

17 arguments were given, and the Chamber simply decided this or that. But I

18 think that the transcript remains intact and that that should not -- and

19 this should not have any effect on the transcript. The transcript should

20 reflect the entire discussion that took place before the Trial Chamber.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Menon, do you have anything to contribute on

22 this point?

23 MR. MENON: We concur, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon?

25 MR. MENON: We concur, Your Honour, with Madam Vidovic's position

1 on the record and whether the -- whether exhibits not admitted into

2 evidence should be -- whether the portion of the record that relates to

3 that exhibit should be -- should remain on the record, we concur with

4 that.

5 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] But I have a problem. We marked

6 for identification document 511, and you're asking for its admission. It

7 is a copy of the original which we saw during the cross-examination.

8 That's what it is, isn't it?

9 MR. MENON: Yes. I'm sorry, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Now, during the

11 cross-examination, Defence asked for the admission of the original. No?

12 Is it what you did? Thank you.

13 But in any case, we are now discussing whether to admit a copy of

14 the original document and not the original document itself. So on the

15 transcript, you are contesting the authenticity -- challenging the

16 authenticity of the document because there's no certification at the end

17 of the document. That is on the transcript.

18 Thank you, I think I got the explanations. I was a bit confused,

19 but now everything is straight.

20 MR. MUNDIS: If I may just interject on this one point concerning

21 the issue of whether the original or the electronic version goes into

22 evidence if the Chamber decides to admit what's been marked as P -- or

23 what's been marked as 511 for identification.

24 When the Office of the Prosecution seized original logbooks from

25 the archives of the Army of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, assurances

1 were given that those original logbooks would be returned to those

2 archives. I would respectfully ask that the electronic version be

3 substituted for the original so that at the completion of this case, to

4 include the appeal, those original materials may be returned to the

5 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. If they were to remain as part of the

6 evidence, they would remain with the Registry for an indefinite period of

7 time, perhaps to be archived with the material from this Tribunal, in

8 which case they would not be returned to the government of Bosnia and

9 Herzegovina in accordance with the agreement that was reached when we took

10 the original hard copies of these logbooks.

11 So that's my limited submission. It's clear from the record and

12 the fact that Your Honours have looked at this logbook, that there are

13 pages missing, and we would strongly suggest that the electronic version

14 be substituted for the original, which is a chain-of-custody document,

15 needs to go back into the evidence vault, and ultimately, pursuant to the

16 assurances given to the government of the Republic of Bosnia and

17 Herzegovina, we would ask that that material go back to where it

18 rightfully belongs, which is in the archives of the Army of the Republic

19 of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I could just say

22 something briefly. You saw clearly that actually this copy does not

23 correspond to the original. If a photocopy of the original is made and

24 even if there are blank pages, then the page that states that this is an

25 entire document needs to be copied and included in the copy of the

1 document, and this is why, in the practice before this Tribunal, I had the

2 following situation: A document was admitted like this, which had a blank

3 page, and then suddenly at one point in the proceedings another copy of

4 the document appeared, and that page that had previously been blanked was

5 now filled in, and we had considerable problems because of that.

6 What I want to say, Your Honours, is because of that, each

7 document that is being admitted as a photocopy of the original, then it

8 must be a photocopy of the original. In this case, it obviously is not.

9 At the end, it says it has 90 pages. You saw for yourself that it does

10 not have 90 pages, and then there are blank pages there. And that is why

11 I do not believe that this actually is a photocopy of the original

12 document.

13 JUDGE HARHOFF: Madam Vidovic, your point is well taken, but there

14 could be some sort of meaning to be elicited from the document.

15 If you look at the last page of the photocopy, which appears to be

16 the right side of page 16 or maybe the left side of page 16, there are two

17 signatures after the entry number 560, down at the bottom of the page.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] By your leave, Your Honour, yes, but

19 you have that on each page. You can ask the witness about this, Your

20 Honour. These are signatures which state duty shift handed over to and

21 duty shift received by.

22 Q. Witness, can you help us with this?

23 A. I've seen this. Under item 560, we have who took over the duty

24 shift, and we also have who handed the duty shift over to that other

25 person, and then it goes on like that.

1 JUDGE HARHOFF: So if I understand the witness correctly,

2 actually, the logbook should have gone on, because there was someone who

3 took over. My question was only related to the fact that these signatures

4 might have implied -- that these signatures might have implied the closure

5 of the logbook. But your view is that this is not the closure, that the

6 logbook actually went on.

7 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Witness, please, could you

8 explain something else? You told us something in passing. You

9 said, "Unless we changed IKM." At one point in time, you said that this

10 logbook had pages missing, and then you said, "if this is not correct,

11 unless --" I wish I could find it in the transcript. You said "unless."

12 Sir, could you please explain? Do you remember that you said that, you

13 said "unless" at one point in time, "unless we change something"? Do you

14 remember when you said that?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do remember that. This diary is

16 closed. This means that the IKM was moved to a different location, and

17 this logbook or diary was closed, although it was not done properly,

18 because the person from the Operations Centre should have noted down that

19 the entries in that logbook were finished with such-and-such an item, and

20 then it should have been signed.

21 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] So it's a question of procedure

22 that was not done correctly. Someone was incompetent along the line?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

24 JUDGE HARHOFF: Witness, the issue is: How can you be so certain

25 that the logbook was closed at that time?

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, on the basis of the fact that

2 there are no more entries.

3 JUDGE HARHOFF: But there could have been. I don't think we can

4 pursue this matter much further.

5 Let us deliberate on it

6 [Trial Chamber confers]

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Rule 89 of the Rules says a Chamber may admit any

8 relevant evidence which it deems to have probative value. The decision

9 adopting guidelines on the admission and presentation of evidence and

10 conduct of counsel in court has attached to each of those guidelines and

11 paragraph (l) of those guidelines is headed "Tendering of Exhibits Through

12 Witnesses."

13 It says: "Where one of the parties seeks the admission of a

14 document through a witness, it must demonstrate to the Trial Chamber the

15 relation between the witness and the document. The Trial Chamber may not

16 allow the admission through that particular witness of documents which

17 lack such relation." I think the relation with this witness has been

18 demonstrated. The document is admitted.

19 May it be given an exhibit number.

20 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 511.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

22 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would just like to clarify that that

23 was the electronic version and not the original version of the exhibit.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, that's what has been tendered.

25 MR. MENON: Okay, thank you.

1 If we could have the document, the original version back, because

2 we have to return it to the evidence vault.

3 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

4 MR. MENON: Your Honour, if I could add something.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Menon.

6 MR. MENON: If I could add something. The B/C/S version, I think,

7 of the Defence document is the same as the B/C/S version of our exhibit.

8 However, we've translated certain portions into English that they haven't,

9 and that's the difference between the two exhibits.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: What are you saying? The B/C/S version --

11 MR. MENON: I believe Your Honours were discussing Exhibit -- I

12 think Defence Exhibit 444 and -- or Court Exhibit 522 and the exhibit

13 which I just tendered.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, we are doing that, but don't talk about that.

15 Just carry on with your re-examination.

16 MR. MENON: Okay. Thank you, Your Honour.

17 I would ask that the witness be shown Exhibit 518. 518. And if

18 we could go to page 2 of the B/C/S and English. Excuse me, page 3 of the

19 B/C/S and English. I misspoke.

20 Re-examination by Mr. Menon:

21 Q. Mr. Sivro, you see the document in front of you, don't you?

22 A. I do.

23 Q. And I was wondering, do you know where or how logbooks such as

24 these would be acquired? And I'm speaking of the blank, before they were

25 actually written into, where they were purchased.

1 A. I don't know. This was the job of the headquarters

2 administration.

3 MR. MENON: Okay, thank you.

4 If the witness could now be shown Exhibit 521.

5 Q. Mr. Sivro, do you remember this document? I believe you had spent

6 some time discussing the contents of this document during the course of

7 cross-examination.

8 A. I remember that.

9 Q. And if you could just look at the strictly confidential number and

10 keep that in mind.

11 Now if the witness could be shown the document marked as MFI 519.

12 Mr. Sivro, would you agree that this document is the same as the

13 one you just looked at?

14 A. The same, as far as I can see.

15 MR. MENON: Your Honour, I would ask that MFI 519 be tendered into

16 evidence. And the reason I do that, in addition to the Defence exhibit

17 which is already in evidence, is because obviously some of the

18 translations that we have done, we have different pages translated than

19 the Defence and their exhibit.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, let us clarify the

22 following: What the Defence showed to the witness were portions, pages of

23 this document, definitely not the entire document.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes.

25 MR. MENON: Your Honour, the document is a logbook, so

1 essentially, I mean, though the specific entries may differ, the form in

2 which it appears is very similar. Now, this witness spent a considerable

3 amount of time discussing the form of the document, discussing specific

4 entries in the document, and so certainly I think that a sufficient

5 relation has been established between the witness and the document.

6 Certainly, if he can discuss a particular entry which is -- which the

7 Defence felt that he could discuss, then I think he can discuss any number

8 of entries. And I'm not going through that with him in the interest of

9 time, but I do think that through the Defence's cross-examination, a

10 relation has been established.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Now, I'm not quite sure I'm following you. I must

12 be confused here. You said in the beginning that you are tendering it,

13 notwithstanding the fact that it is the same document as the one that was

14 tendered by the Defence. Which one was tendered by the Defence?

15 MR. MENON: Exhibit 521 is the Defence exhibit, Your Honour.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: And you say it's the same thing as 519?

17 MR. MENON: 519, exactly. It's just that we've translated

18 different excerpts than the Defence translated, but the document itself is

19 the same.

20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, my apologies. It's

21 not that it's not the same. We combined parts of the logbook with other

22 documents, if you recall, with reports and so on and so forth. That's why

23 the document isn't similar at all. It only contains some portions of this

24 logbook. If you remember, I compared some documents which were indeed

25 sent with the pages of the logbook, so we can't say that it's one and the

1 same document. There must have been have been an error somewhere.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: If it's not one and the same document, maybe then

3 that's one of the reasons we should admit both of them, because they speak

4 to different topics. Okay, the document is then admitted, and may it be

5 given an exhibit number.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 519.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

8 Yes, Mr. Menon.

9 MR. MENON: No further questions, Your Honour.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 Judge.

12 [Trial Chamber confers]

13 Questioned by the Court:

14 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Witness, I have one question. I

15 don't know if this is complicated, but I would like you to be very clear.

16 You've told us that you would receive reports stemming from all units, all

17 subordinate units subordinate to the 3rd Corps. You've also told us that

18 you personally, as far as your function goes, you had never seen a report

19 from the El Mujahedin Detachment. I am not challenging this statement of

20 yours, but I would just like to know, when you are referring to a certain

21 period, I would like to know what period you're referring to.

22 We are referring to 1994, you started -- rather, correction. We

23 are not concerned by the year 1994, when you started working, but what we

24 are interested in is 1995. Therefore, when we talk about 1995, the El

25 Mujahedin Detachment, was it always subordinated to the 3rd Corps?

1 A. The El Mujahedin Detachment, I don't know about that detachment.

2 Never showed up -- nobody ever showed up from that detachment, as far as I

3 was able to see in the 3rd Corps. I never saw those men. I only had

4 contacts with them on two occasions, as the logbooks indicate, when a

5 person called on their behalf. I never received any reports from this

6 unit, and had I received any, there would have been a record of that

7 somewhere.

8 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I understand, Witness, but I

9 would like to know if, by any chance, the detachment was subordinated to

10 another unit. Could it be that they were sending their reports to other

11 units but not to the 3rd Corps? And I'm specifically referring to

12 operations going from July to September of 1995. Would it be possible

13 that they would have sent their reports to a division, a different

14 division, that would have sent you the reports in turn? Maybe you did not

15 see their reports, the detachment reports, for that particular reason?

16 I'm just wondering. Could it be the case?

17 A. As duty operations officer in the Command of the 3rd Corps, I

18 received reports from subordinate units, and from among others, there were

19 reports from the 35th Division and some other divisions. None of these

20 units mentioned in their report the El Mujahedin Detachment, and that's

21 why I don't know anything about them.

22 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Any questions arising from the Judge's questions,

24 Mr. Menon?

25 MR. MENON: Yes, Your Honour.

1 If the witness could now be shown Exhibit 394. And if he could go

2 to page 4 of the B/C/S and page 5 of the English. And actually it's

3 the -- I neglected to mention, but it's the second translation in e-court,

4 the second English translation that I want to bring up, so it should be

5 marked as 0185-5153-2.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm getting confused. When you say "the second

7 translations of Exhibit 394", are you suggesting that two translations

8 have been admitted into evidence?

9 MR. MENON: Well, they are two duplicates. One is a shorter range

10 and one is a longer range. They are both partial translations of the

11 B/C/S version, it's just that one is more comprehensive than the other.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay, let's see it then and see what happens.

13 Further re-examination by Mr. Menon:

14 Q. Mr. Sivro, I'd like to refer you to entry number 19. Did you make

15 that entry?

16 A. I did.

17 Q. And from whom are you receiving the information noted in entry

18 number 19?

19 A. From someone who introduced himself as the El Mujahedin

20 Detachment, being from that detachment.

21 Q. And that entry is -- the time of that entry, 6.20 a.m., if we

22 could just go to the previous page. That would be page 3 of the B/C/S and

23 page 4 of the English.

24 And would you agree with me, Mr. Sivro, that that's dated the 10th

25 of September, 1995?

1 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please speak into the

2 microphone.

3 MR. MENON:

4 Q. Mr. Sivro, would you agree with me that that's dated the 10th of

5 September, 1995?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Now if we could go back to page 4 of the B/C/S and page 5 of the

8 English.

9 Mr. Sivro, I refer you to entry number 21, and on the English it

10 continues on to page 6. Mr. Sivro, from whom did you get the information

11 contained in entry number 21? And if we could go to page 6 of the English

12 and we can see the continuation of that. Mr. Sivro, from whom did you get

13 the information set out in entry number 21?

14 A. I received the information from an officer from the Staff, and I

15 can't recall who it was from. Probably someone from the Staff who was

16 dealing with that.

17 Q. And who contacted the person at the Staff?

18 A. I wouldn't be able to tell you that. I don't know.

19 Q. Did you not write here: "Aiman called the 3rd Corps commander"?

20 A. I wrote it that way: "Aiman called the commander of the 3rd Corps

21 and reported that the El Mujahedin Detachment seized the facilities

22 Paljenik and Ravno Ivlje. And it was someone who called me, relayed that

23 information to me, and that's how I put it down.

24 Q. Thank you for that clarification, Mr. Sivro, and the time of that

25 is 6.34?

1 If we could move on to page 5 of the B/C/S and page 6 of the

2 English. We're actually on page 6, so if we could stay on that page. And

3 I refer you to entry number 25, Mr. Sivro. The time of that is 7.12.

4 A. I don't understand. Which number?

5 Q. It's entry number 25, Mr. Sivro. In that entry, where is the --

6 the information that's set out in that entry, where does that originate

7 from?

8 A. At the time, I was at the commander's observation post.

9 Q. But how was that -- I'm sorry, go ahead, continue.

10 A. I was at the observation post of the commander, and I wrote down

11 what was going on. Somebody -- some of the officers entered and said that

12 this was what transpired, and I wrote it down. That's it.

13 Q. But the information, how is it acquired by the 3rd Corps Command?

14 A. The commander of the 3rd Corps was reported to by someone from the

15 Staff. I'm -- someone who I'm writing about.

16 Q. Does it not say the El Mujahedin Detachment informed the

17 commander?

18 A. Yes, that's what I wrote. However, as far as I know, the

19 commander was in my immediate vicinity, or rather I was immediately close

20 to him, and --

21 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness please repeat the last part of

22 his answer.

23 MR. MENON:

24 Q. Can you repeat the last part of your answer, Mr. Sivro?

25 A. I was at the observation post, together with the commander, and I

1 did not hear anybody calling from the El Mujahedin Detachment. It must

2 have been someone from the Communications Service who reported this, and

3 this is how I wrote down. Matters unfolded so quickly that I did not

4 really pay that much attention to what I was writing down.

5 MR. MENON: If we could move on to page -- well, stay on page 5 of

6 the B/C/S and move on to page 7 of the English. And I refer you to entry

7 number 29, Mr. Sivro.

8 Q. How is the -- how is the 3rd Corps Command obtaining the

9 information in that particular entry?

10 A. Well, probably either from the neighbouring units or this someone

11 Aiman must have called again and given this information.

12 Q. You made this entry, did you not?

13 A. Yes, yes.

14 MR. MENON: Thank you. If we could go to page 6 of the B/C/S and

15 page 8 of the English.

16 Q. And I refer you to entry number 35, Mr. Sivro. How is the 3rd

17 Corps obtaining the information set out in that entry?

18 A. I don't know. I have no idea. I don't know.

19 Q. Did you not produce this entry?

20 A. Well, I did, I wrote it, but it wasn't down to me to check up on

21 the information or to go off to persons to see what this was about. I

22 was -- I wrote whatever I was ordered to write, either by my superiors or

23 my colleagues, officers who were engaged in communications. I was engaged

24 in writing this down.

25 Q. And what you wrote down says: "El Mujahedin Detachment reported

1 that the detachment forces had joined at the bridge over the Krivaja

2 River," does it not?

3 A. "El Mujahedin Detachment reported that the detachment forces had

4 joined at the bridge over the Krivaja River right before the entrance to

5 the village of Stog."

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you going to be much longer?

7 MR. MENON: I'm actually finished, Your Honour, I'm done.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic.

9 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I will only have one

10 question for the witness. Can we have D445 shown to the witness.

11 Further cross-examination by Ms. Vidovic:

12 Q. Before that, let us clarify this, Witness. You were a person who

13 wrote down a piece of information that you heard from someone; did I

14 understand you correctly?

15 A. Yes, yes.

16 Q. In other words, you don't know in what way the information reached

17 that person?

18 A. I was not out in the field. I was at the IKM, at the observation

19 post, and I made note of whatever was said to me by some of the officers

20 or someone else.

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, can the witness look at

22 page 2 of the document. This is an excerpt from the same operations

23 logbook. Can we turn to page 2 in the English as well.

24 Q. Mr. Sivro, can you look at entry number 70 for the 12th of May?

25 A. Can you please zoom in on this bit?

1 Q. That's all right. It says: "Aiman, commander of the El Mujahedin

2 Detachment, sought the commander of the 3rd Corps via communications

3 links."

4 Is it right that you wrote this, Mr. Sivro?

5 A. Yes, that's what I wrote. That's -- he introduced himself. I

6 don't know who he was.

7 Q. You know so well, you're so familiar with the El Mujahedin

8 Detachment that you know that this Aiman is a commander?

9 A. Well, he introduced himself as the commander. Whether he was a

10 commander or not is something I don't know. He -- anybody could have

11 introduced himself as the commander of the unit, anyone who I didn't know,

12 and I would have written it down that way.

13 Q. I'm sorry. The record doesn't seem to reflect what we were

14 discussing at all. Something's wrong with the transcript. I believe

15 everything is fine now. I couldn't see any of this on my screen, Your

16 Honour.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you done with your questioning?

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, Your Honour. I have no

19 further questions.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

21 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] I have a problem with the

22 transcript, page 94, line 25. I said -- or rather I did not

23 say "regarding operations from July to September," I said "operations from

24 July and from September of 1995." Thank you for correcting the

25 transcript.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Judge.

2 Mr. Sivro, thank you so much for coming to testify. This brings

3 us to the conclusion of your testimony. We understand that you have taken

4 time off to come and -- yes, madam.

5 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Microphone, Madam Vidovic.

7 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, document D445, can

8 that be given an exhibit number before we finish? Yes, if possible, thank

9 you.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 Document D445 is admitted into evidence. May it please be given

12 an exhibit number.

13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, Exhibit number 524.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

15 Mr. Sivro, thank you very much. I was still saying that this

16 brings us to the conclusion of your testimony, and we just want to thank

17 you for having come to testify at the Tribunal. You are now excused, you

18 may stand down, and please have a pleasant journey back home.

19 Thank you very much.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you. Thank you, Your Honours.

21 [The witness withdrew]

22 [Trial Chamber confers]

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

24 And may I just say thank you to the interpreters and other people

25 for staying beyond the time. I'm sorry, we were challenged to complete

1 this witness.

2 Court will adjourn, and we'll reconvene in Courtroom II tomorrow

3 afternoon at quarter past 2.00.

4 Court adjourned.

5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.09 p.m.,

6 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 2nd day of

7 October, 2007, at 2.15 p.m.

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