Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 5961

 1                           Friday, 12 June 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning.

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  Good morning, Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan, I hear there's been some success with

 8     the exhibits.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  That's correct, Your Honours.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  I'm told 15 that are to be marked for

11     identification are to be admitted, 50 public documents are to be admitted

12     by consent, and 3 admitted by consent but under seal.

13             MS. GOPALAN:  That's correct, Your Honours.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  If those figures are right, there will be a

15     general order that the court officer will process those and will issue a

16     memorandum with the exhibit numbers.

17             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Does that save you a lot of reading.

19             MS. GOPALAN:  Indeed.

20                           [Trial Chamber and registrar confer].

21             JUDGE PARKER:  What I said was ambiguous.  The 15 marked for

22     identification will be marked for identification, not admitted as

23     exhibits.

24             MS. GOPALAN:  I believe they are part of the motion to add

25     exhibits.

Page 5962

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

 2             Now, ready for the next witness.

 3             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, I am, Your Honours.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 5             Mr. Djurdjic, you've got some of yours agreed to.  12, is it?

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour.  First

 7     of all, I would like to notify you that in the end I accepted all the

 8     documents of the Prosecution, and they failed to note that.  So

 9     regardless of whether they are the police documents or not, I accepted

10     them because I believe that in this trial if there is no doubt about a

11     document, we need to have them and exhibit them and show them to the

12     witness so that they explain to us what this is all about.  And we will

13     at one point come to a stage where we will be able to do that outside of

14     the trial itself, the hearing itself.

15             The Prosecution agreed with the list of documents that we

16     submitted to the court deputy, and I would like to move that those

17     Defence documents that the Prosecution has not objected to also be

18     admitted into evidence.  Thank you.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Those documents will also be admitted and there

20     will be a memorandum published by the court officer indicating the

21     exhibit numbers.

22             Now, after the slow pace of the last witness for good reason, we

23     hope we can have a couple of quick-pace witnesses.

24                           [The witness entered court]

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Good morning, sir.

Page 5963

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Would you please read aloud the affirmation which

 3     is shown to you now.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I declare that I shall say truth,

 5     the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

 6                           WITNESS:  SAMI PARASHUMTI

 7                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, please sit down.  Ms. Gopalan has some

 9     questions for you.

10                           Examination by Ms. Gopalan:

11        Q.   Good morning, sir.

12        A.   Good morning.

13        Q.   Before we begin, I would just like to check if you've got your

14     spectacles with you this morning, because we may be needing it in the

15     course of the proceedings.  That's wonderful.

16        A.   Yes, I do.

17        Q.   Please could you state your full name for the record.

18        A.   Sami Parashumti.

19        Q.   Thank you.  And how old are you?

20        A.   54.

21        Q.   Sir, where were you born?

22        A.   I was born on the 13th of August, 1955, in Gjakove.

23        Q.   And where do you live now, sir?

24        A.   I still live in Gjakove.

25        Q.   Thank you.  I'd now like to ask you some questions about your

Page 5964

 1     statements.  Now, do you recall that you gave a statement to members of

 2     this Tribunal on the 30th of January, 2000?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Sir, have you recently had the opportunity to review the

 5     statement?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7        Q.   Sir, I understand that having reviewed the statement, you wish to

 8     make some corrections to it?

 9        A.   Yes, that's correct.

10        Q.   I will now take you through the corrections and if you could let

11     me know if you agree with the corrections.  Let's begin.

12             In the English page 2, paragraph 3, the B/C/S is the same

13     reference.

14             MS GOPALAN:  And for the Court's information, this is

15     65 ter 05182.

16        Q.   You say:

17             "I observed the home of Dardan Riza being set on fire."

18             The correction you wish to make is as follows:

19             "I saw flames from Dardan Riza's house.  I learned from one of my

20     neighbours that Dardan Riza's house had been set on fire."

21             Is that correct?

22        A.   Yes, it is correct.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

24             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  If we can

25     correct the statement in this manner, well, then, I think that the

Page 5965

 1     witness is the one who should do it, not the Prosecution.  If the

 2     correction is not made in the course of the evidence.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  This is a matter of form rather than substance,

 4     Mr. Djurdjic.  The witness is in his evidence agreeing to these changes,

 5     and it saves time if the matter is not obviously contentious.  We'll

 6     proceed on that basis.

 7             Carry on, please, Ms. Gopalan.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 9        Q.   Sir, I'll take you to the second correction wish to make to your

10     statement that is page 3, paragraph 2, of both the English and the B/C/S.

11     The 7th sentence.  Currently your statement reads:

12             "I noticed two dark blue armoured vehicles parked near the Vejsa

13     home and also four dark blue jeeps parked around the corner near the

14     store."

15             The correction you wish to make is as follows, and I'll read it

16     out now:

17             "I noticed one dark blue armoured vehicle parked near the Vejsa

18     home, and I heard the noises of other vehicles.  I later learned from my

19     neighbours that there were also four dark blue jeeps."

20             Is that correct, sir?

21        A.   Yes, it is true that I only saw one.  The other neighbours saw

22     the others.  However, I did hear the noise of the engines, of the other

23     cars, that is.

24        Q.   Thank you, sir.  And finally, you wish to highlight another

25     correction that you made to the statement, that's statement of the

Page 5966

 1     30th of January, 2000.  And this correction is already set out in your

 2     supplemental statement of the 15th of March, 2002.  This is also part of

 3     65 ter 05182.  And I will just read out the correction that you made in

 4     your statement of March 2002:

 5             "Because of the darkness and my state of fear, I am not sure that

 6     the two policemen, Dragan Shipanoviq and Nenad Raqeviq whom I mentioned

 7     in my statement really were present, but I suspect it was them."

 8             That's the end of the correction.

 9        A.   Yes, it is correct, and true.

10        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, having made these corrections to your

11     statement of January, 2000, sir, one of which is set out in your

12     supplemental statement of March 2002, are you satisfied that both these

13     statements are true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and

14     belief?

15        A.   Yes, they are.

16             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honour, I seek to tender this exhibit into

17     evidence; it's 05182.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00903, Your Honours.

20             MS. GOPALAN:  I will now read out the witness's in-court summary.

21             The witness is a Kosovo Albanian male who lived in Millosh Giliq

22     in Djakovica in 1999.  The witness will testify that on the 2nd of April

23     around midnight he saw Serb police knocking on doors along Millosh Giliq

24     street.  He saw smoke rising from the Riza house and subsequently learned

25     from a neighbour that it had been set on fire.  He also heard gun-shots

Page 5967

 1     from the area of the Vejsa family residence and children screaming "they

 2     are going to kill us."  Approximately 15 minutes later, he heard more

 3     gun-fire coming from the Vejsa house.

 4             The witness escaped to the roof of his house and saw flames from

 5     the homes that were on fire.  From that vantage point, he also observed

 6     12 policemen in his yard, and he describes the uniforms of those

 7     policemen.

 8             He also saw approximately 50 policemen along the street and one

 9     dark blue armoured vehicle parked near the Vejsa home.  The witness will

10     testify that he saw policemen coming out of the Cana house with Januz

11     Cana's daughter, Shpresa.  He saw them take her into a tunnel by the

12     house.  He saw that one policeman had a knife, and shortly after he heard

13     Shpresa scream.

14             The witness then saw his house was on fire and fled to nearby

15     houses.  He then joined a convoy heading to Albania with his family and

16     crossed the border into Albania.

17             That's the end of the summary.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

19             MS. GOPALAN:

20        Q.   Sir, I now have a few questions for you about the events on these

21     early hours of the 2nd of April.  Sir, in your statement, you say - and

22     this is at page 2, paragraph 3 of the English, and the B/C/S is the same

23     reference - you say that on the 2nd of April, at approximately 12.05

24     a.m., the Serb police started knocking on doors along

25     Milosh Gilic Street.  Sir, how did you know that these were policemen,

Page 5968

 1     those that were knocking on the doors?

 2        A.   Yes, one could hear the noise of the doors.  Some doors were iron

 3     doors others were wooden so that when the doors opened a lot of noise

 4     could be heard.  And we were able to conclude that attacks against us

 5     were beginning.  It was a very quiet night and even the lightest of the

 6     noises could easily be heard.  And so this started coming from the other

 7     houses to our own because we happened to be in the corner at the end of

 8     the street.

 9        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, let's go back to the question.  How did you

10     know that those who were knocking on the doors were policemen?

11        A.   I know because when I was sitting on the roof-top and trying to

12     assess which way I'd be able to make my escape without the presence of

13     policemen, I was able to see near a corner a car that had stopped and

14     policemen emerging from it.  Some were hiding behind, others were almost

15     in the courtyard of Xhemil Caka's house.  They had weapons, and they were

16     leaning against fences and giving commands right left and centre as to

17     which way people were to go.

18        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Let me just stop you there to clarify what you

19     have said, but before we move on to you being on the roof, I'd like to

20     take you back to when you were in Januz Cana's home, and this was after

21     the police started knocking on the doors.  I'd like to ask you some

22     questions about Januz Cana.  Who was Januz Cana?

23        A.   Januz Cana was one of our neighbours, next-door neighbours.  My

24     house and his house are adjacent.

25        Q.   Thank you, sir.  And you say that while you were standing by

Page 5969

 1     Januz Cana's front door, you heard gun-shots coming from the area of the

 2     Vejsa family residence, which is located across the street.

 3             This is paragraph 3 of the English, page 2, and the same in the

 4     B/C/S.

 5             I'd like you to identify --

 6        A.   Correct.

 7        Q.    -- some of the homes that you have mentioned.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Could I call up 65 ter 275, please.

 9        Q.   Sir, shortly there should be a photograph appearing on your

10     screen.  Sir, do you recognise this photograph?

11        A.   Yes, I do.  Yes.

12        Q.   What does this photograph depict?

13        A.   This photograph shows the Vejsa family house from above.

14        Q.   I will ask you, if you can, to mark on the photograph the Vejsa

15     family home, and the usher will assist you with this.  Could you please

16     put the letter A beside the Vejsa family home, and circle the Vejsa home,

17     please.

18        A.   [Marks]

19        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please put the letter B beside your own

20     home or on your own home.

21        A.   My house.

22        Q.   And could you please put a letter C on the Cana home, please.

23        A.   [Marks]

24        Q.   Thank you, sir.

25             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I'd like to tender this document into

Page 5970

 1     evidence, please.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 3             MS. GOPALAN:

 4        Q.   Sir, in your statement you say after you returned to your home --

 5     oh, sorry.

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned P00904, Your Honours.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you.

 8        Q.   Sir, you say approximately 15 minutes later - and this is at

 9     paragraph 3 of the English, page 2, and B/C/S page 2, paragraph 3, so the

10     same reference - you say you heard a second burst of gun-fire coming from

11     the Vejsa home.  Now, you've just marked the Vejsa home for us on the

12     map.  Could you tell us, did you learn what was the -- what happened in

13     the Vejsa home on that day?

14        A.   We learned of it when we were in Albania that there were about

15     members of four families who died.  We didn't see anything when we were

16     there.  All we heard was the gun-shots.  And they say that the first of

17     the attacks was the shop and Hisen Gashi was killed in his courtyard and

18     then uninterrupted gun-fire could be heard in the areas as well as the

19     screams of women and children.  And after the uninterrupted burst of

20     gun-fire, no more noises could be heard.  No one was alive.

21        Q.   Thank you.  Sir, I'd now like to move on to what you saw from the

22     roof.  You mentioned this earlier.  In your statement you say:

23             After hearing the Serbs trying to enter the Cana house, you tried

24     to escape by proceeding to the roof of your house.

25             Could you tell us what you saw from the roof of your house?

Page 5971

 1        A.   With my own eyes -- may I make a point, references to where I was

 2     and what kind of vantage point I had?

 3        Q.   Yes, you may.  If you could mark with a D where you were on the

 4     roof of your house.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  Perhaps we could call up P275 -- sorry, 65 ter 275

 6     again, please.

 7        Q.   Could you mark for us, sir, where you were on the roof.

 8        A.   [Marks]

 9        Q.   Thank you.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] On the previous document we

12     admitted, I believe the witness already drew this roof D, and he is now

13     again drawing it on the new document.  Because when he said "may I," he

14     was told he may, but perhaps we should check.  I believe there's another

15     D already on that document.  Maybe we'll have a surplus.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  I only saw A, B, and C, Mr. Djurdjic.  But if it's

17     marked twice, it doesn't matter.

18             Carry on, please, Ms. Gopalan.

19             MS. GOPALAN:

20        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, from the point that you marked now on this

21     photograph, please tell us what you saw.

22        A.   There was a police van, a blue one, here.  May I mark where it

23     was?

24        Q.   Not for the moment, please.  Could you just tell us what you saw

25     after you saw the police van.

Page 5972

 1        A.   The van stopped, the lights were off, and the policemen came out.

 2        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, in your statement you say that you saw or

 3     you observed 12 policemen in your yard and that some of them were wearing

 4     blue camouflage.  And this is at the English page 2, paragraph 4.  B/C/S

 5     pages 2 to 3, also paragraph 4 for page 2.

 6             Now, sir, what were the rest of the policemen wearing?  You said

 7     some were wearing blue camouflage, what were the rest wearing?

 8        A.   Three of them were wearing blue uniforms.  Oh, I'm sorry, they

 9     were wearing green uniforms.  Three of them.  While the other ones were

10     all wearing blue uniforms.

11        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Are these the policemen who you observed in your

12     yard, the men that you have just described?

13        A.   Yes.  These three in green uniforms were in my own yard.  The

14     other ones went close to our wall, but they were looking towards the Cana

15     family home.  They wanted to climb the wall or what they wanted to do, I

16     don't know.

17        Q.   Thank you, sir.

18             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to tender the markings on the screen into

19     evidence, please.

20             JUDGE PARKER:  It's merely the D.

21             MS. GOPALAN:  That's right, sir.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  You don't want the position of the vehicle?

23             MS. GOPALAN:  I could ask the witness to identify the vehicle.

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

25             MS. GOPALAN:

Page 5973

 1        Q.   Sir, early on, you mentioned that you saw a police vehicle.

 2     Could you mark for us with an E where that vehicle was located, please.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Thank you.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd now like to tender the document.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  And I'd like to call up P831, please.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  And the marked version, Your Honours, will be

 9     assigned P00905.

10             MS. GOPALAN:

11        Q.   Sir, shortly on your screen there will appear some patterns of

12     uniforms, and I'd like you to tell us, if you can, if any of those

13     patterns were similar or the same to what you saw the policemen you

14     mentioned wearing.

15        A.   As far as I remember -- may I write the number of the ones that I

16     saw?

17        Q.   If you could just identify them for us.  There are four samples

18     there.  There's one on the top left-hand corner, top right-hand corner,

19     bottom left, and bottom right.  If it's easier, you can also mark the

20     ones that you saw with a tick or some sort of marking.

21        A.   There were three wearing this kind of uniform.  There were 12

22     wearing this one.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  For the record, the witness has marked

24     the top right with a horizontal dash and a number 3 in the margin next to

25     it, and has marked the top left pattern with a dash and the number 12 in

Page 5974

 1     the margin next to it.

 2             MS. GOPALAN:

 3        Q.   Sir, where did you see these policemen?

 4        A.   I saw all of them.  I think I made a mistake earlier.  There were

 5     12 altogether, and 3 of them who were wearing green uniforms were in my

 6     own yard.  And there were 9 wearing the blue uniforms.  Earlier I made a

 7     mistake, the total number was 12.

 8        Q.   In that case, could you scrub off, you could cancel off the 12,

 9     and replace it with I think what you have said is that you saw 9 of them

10     wearing the blue uniforms.

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   Thank you, sir.  You also say in your statement that you saw

13     another 50 policemen on the street.  And this is at page 3, paragraph 2,

14     English and B/C/S is the same reference.  Now, what were they wearing, if

15     you remember?

16        A.   All of them were wearing this colour.

17        Q.   Thank you.

18             MS. GOPALAN:  Let the record indicate that the witness has marked

19     the top left-hand corner camouflage pattern.

20        Q.   Thank you, sir.  And what were these policemen doing?

21        A.   They were far away from where I was staying at the Caka family

22     home; but I could hear that orders were being given, and they were

23     leaning against the fence.  There was a wire fence and they were giving

24     orders left and right.  I couldn't hear the voices there, but I could

25     hear the voices of the people who were closer to my home, and I could

Page 5975

 1     hear that they were speaking in Serbian and also in Russian.  There was a

 2     language I could not understand.  I mean, spoken by the people who were

 3     close to where I was.

 4             I was -- they were right in front of the balcony about a couple

 5     of metres from my balcony.  That's where the 12 were.  And then I could

 6     see that more policemen were coming close to the Caka family home.  They

 7     were about 50.  I'm not sure exactly how many, maybe 45 or 50, but I

 8     could see them.

 9        Q.   Sir, just going back to your answer when you say that you could

10     hear orders being given and they were leaning against the fence, did you

11     see --

12        A.   Just a second, please.  I've got a problem.

13             [In English] Thank you.

14        Q.   Let me just repeat my question, sir.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

16             MS. GOPALAN:

17        Q.   Just going back to the answer that you gave earlier that you

18     heard orders being given, do you remember what orders they were?

19        A.   I can hardly remember.  I could hear people saying things:  go

20     left, go right, go to this house, or go to this direction, and search the

21     houses.

22        Q.   Thank you, sir.

23             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd like to tender this exhibit into evidence,

24     please.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

Page 5976

 1             MS. GOPALAN:  And I'd like to call up P318, please.

 2        Q.   Sir, early on, you marked for us -- I'll wait.

 3             THE REGISTRAR:  And the marked version, Your Honours, will be

 4     assigned P00906.

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  Thank you.  I'd now like to call up P318, please.

 6        Q.   Sir, earlier on in your testimony you marked for us and you

 7     mentioned of a vehicle that you saw.  Do you remember that, a vehicle

 8     that you saw by the Vejsa home?  Now, on your screen there are

 9     photographs of a number of vehicles.  If you are able to identify any of

10     these vehicles as the one that you saw by the Vejsa family home, please

11     let us know which number that is.  Now, on page 1 there are four

12     photographs.  Did you see any of these vehicles by the Vejsa family home?

13        A.   I did not see these ones.

14        Q.   Let's move on to the second page then --

15        A.   I did not see them near the Vejsa home only.

16             MS. GOPALAN:  Could we have the second page, please.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.  May I mark?

18             MS. GOPALAN:

19        Q.   If you could just read out the number for us, please.

20        A.   Number 7.  But not in this colour.  It was blue, the police

21     colour.

22        Q.   Thank you, sir.  I'd now like to move on to when you left your

23     home.  You say at page 3, paragraph, 5 of the English:

24             "I noticed that my house was on fire and that I had better

25     leave."

Page 5977


 2             MS. GOPALAN:  The B/C/S is pages 3 to 4 beginning with

 3     paragraph 4.

 4        Q.   And then you also say that around 7.00 a.m. those in the Krasniqi

 5     home including yourself departed for Albania.  Sir, how many of you were

 6     gathered in the Krasniqi home?

 7        A.   There were about 300 of us.  300, even more.  I'm sure about 300

 8     though.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  And, sir, you then say that you departed for Albania.

10     Why is it that you departed for Albania?

11        A.   We departed because both on the right-hand side and left-hand

12     side of the neighbourhood all the houses were burned.  We did not have

13     anywhere to stay, only the Serb houses were not burned.  And some of the

14     Albanian houses were not burned because they were next to the Serb

15     houses, and if they had burned the Albanian houses, then the Serbs would

16     have suffered as well.

17             And there was nothing else for us to do but leave the

18     neighbourhood because there was this foul smell.  I can't describe it to

19     you what kind of smell it was.  Horrible.

20        Q.   And, sir, you mentioned houses being burned.  Do you know who

21     burnt these houses?

22        A.   Their houses -- these houses were burned by the people who

23     entered the yards.  There was nobody else to burn them.

24        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, during your journey to Albania, what, if

25     anything, happened to your identity documents?

Page 5978

 1        A.   Yes.  When we left the neighbourhood and were on our way to

 2     Albania, Besim Bokshi was leading the way; he was the first in the convoy

 3     and we followed him.  We went along the Dan Leshi Street and then went to

 4     the Main Street close to the courthouse.  Behind me there were about 200

 5     or 300 people, and a bus attacked us, a bus of the Lasta company.

 6        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Just because I'm running out of time, I'd just

 7     like to take you to my question early on where I asked what, if anything,

 8     happened to your identity documents.  Did anything happen to your

 9     identity documents?

10        A.   I did have my ID card, and I handed it over.  On the outskirts of

11     town there are two bridges, the old and the new one.  At the old bridge,

12     there was -- there were three policemen, and we had to show the ID card

13     to them and then we had to drop it on the ground.  After that, we had the

14     right to proceed towards Albania.

15        Q.   Thank you.  And what about the others who were in your group,

16     what happened to their identity cards or other identity documents?

17        A.   Everybody was asked to show their ID cards.  The ones that did

18     not have their IDs were stopped there.  I don't know what happened to

19     them because we continued on our way to Albania.

20        Q.   Sir, could you tell us which route you took to Albania?  What

21     towns did you pass?

22        A.   Yes.  After we passed the Tabako [phoen] bridge, we went to

23     Brekoc.  This is an outlying village.  The second village is Vugova.  The

24     third one Zhubi.  At Zhubi, the army was stopping the refugees and loaded

25     them on tractors to go towards Albania.  We were not able to walk after

Page 5979

 1     Zhubi; we had to get on tractors and go to the border.

 2             When we got to the border, the elderly men and women that were

 3     there were helped by the Yugoslav Army.  They were taken towards the

 4     Albanian border.  The disabled people, the sick and elderly, were helped

 5     by the army.

 6        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, you mentioned refugees in Zub.  Do you

 7     remember how many refugees there were in Zub?

 8        A.   When we got there we found about 250 of them there.  When our

 9     convoy got there, there were about 800 altogether.  There were other

10     convoys coming from elsewhere, from other directions.  I could not see

11     the end of the convoy, but there were a large number of people, about

12     800.  And then we were told to get on tractors in groups and we were

13     directed towards Albania and the Albanian border.

14        Q.   And in which town or at which point did you cross over into the

15     Albanian border, if you remember?

16        A.   We crossed at Qafa e Prushit through the mountains, because the

17     main road where the customs offices of Albania and Yugoslavia were had

18     been mined, so the army directed us towards this other road and to the

19     border there.

20        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Just to finish off, I'd like to go back to your

21     return to Djakovo.  You've already spoken a little bit about this.  Could

22     you tell us, if you remember, when it is that you returned from Albania

23     back to your neighbourhood.

24        A.   I returned to my neighbourhood in Gjakove on the

25     25th of June, 1999.

Page 5980

 1        Q.   Thank you, sir.

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd now like to call up 65 ter 275 again, please.

 3        Q.   Sir, you've already mentioned the -- what you smelled when you

 4     returned to your neighbourhood and the condition of some of the homes.

 5     You said that homes had been burned but some homes -- you also said that

 6     some homes had not been burned, Albanian homes, because they were

 7     adjacent to Serb homes.  Now, in this picture that you've already seen,

 8     could you mark for us -- could you circle the homes that were not burned?

 9        A.   Yes.

10             MS. GOPALAN:  Could the usher please assist.

11        Q.   If you could just circle the homes that were not burned.

12        A.   The Serb houses that were not burned, you want me to mark them,

13     to put a circle?

14        Q.   Yes.

15        A.   This is Xhemil Caka's house and -- or Dan Caka's house.  This one

16     was not burned.

17        Q.   Sir, could you put a circle around the Serb houses that were not

18     burned.  I know that you've put a marking, but I am afraid it's not

19     clear.

20        A.   Like this?

21        Q.   Yes, thank you.  And whose house was that?

22        A.   The first one was the house of an elderly Serb woman.  Her

23     children were living in Serbia; I don't know what town.  She was living

24     there on her own.

25        Q.   Could you put a number 1 beside that house, please.  This house

Page 5981

 1     that you mentioned belonging to the elderly Serb woman.

 2        A.   Number 1.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  And how about the second circle --

 4        A.   There was another one that belonged to a Montenegrin.  This one

 5     here.  Mat Buriqi's house.

 6        Q.   You marked that house with a number 1, but I'd like you to put a

 7     number 2, please, Mat Buriqi's house.

 8        A.   Here, number 2.

 9        Q.   And how about the circle in the middle that you haven't given a

10     number to, who did that house belong to?

11        A.   This is Xhemil Caka's house, and this other one --

12        Q.   What was his ethnicity?

13        A.   Albanian.

14        Q.   From the photograph it appears that his house was not burned, do

15     you know why that's the case?

16        A.   Xhemil Caka's house was not burned because it was next to the

17     Serb woman's house, and it would burn if the Albanian's home would burn.

18        Q.   Thank you.

19        A.   This other house belonged to Ketar Kastrati and that house was

20     not burned as well because it was next to the Montenegrin's house.

21        Q.   Thank you, sir --

22        A.   Next to house number 2.

23        Q.   Before we finish, could you please put a number 3 on Xhemil

24     Caka's house.

25        A.   That's it.

Page 5982

 1        Q.   Thank you.

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  Sir, at this stage I have no further questions for

 3     you.

 4             I'd like to tender this document into evidence, please.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 6             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned P00907, Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you, Ms. Gopalan.

 8             Mr. Djurdjic, are you now ready to cross-examine?

 9             Would you like a break now or are you able to continue?

10             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can continue.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.

12             Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

13                           Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:

14        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Parashumpti, my name is Veljko Djurdjic, and I'm

15     a member of the Defence team representing the accused Vlastimir

16     Djordjevic.  And I am here in the courtroom with Ms. Marie O'Leary who is

17     also a member of the Defence team.  Are you feeling okay?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   Now I would like us to continue in the same vein as you did with

20     Ms. Gopalan.  I would like you to look at the transcript and when you see

21     that the cursor has come to a stop, then please start answering the

22     question, because I speak rather fast.

23             Mr. Parashumti, you were born in Djakovica, was your father also

24     born in Djakovica?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 5983

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And in 1999, who were you living with in the house

 2     that you showed us?

 3        A.   I live in a flat.  It's 54 square metres all in all.  Before the

 4     24th of March, somewhere around the 20th, I returned to my parents' house

 5     because of the fear that on account of about 50 per cent of Serbs living

 6     in the neighbourhood, I would not feel quite safe.

 7        Q.   Thank you.  And could you tell me who did you -- who were you

 8     with when you came to your parents' house?

 9        A.   We split in two groups.  My wife, my second daughter, and the

10     little son went by the in-laws.  Me and my eldest daughter and my biggest

11     son went to my parents, and this because we were afraid to be all

12     together.  At least if one lot were to be killed, at least the others

13     would survive.  This was our thinking.  She stayed at the in-laws for

14     three days and then she returned with the two children where we stayed at

15     my parents house, from her own parents house, and we stayed there until

16     the 2nd of April when we departed to Albania.

17        Q.   Thank you.  And could you tell me who lived in your parents'

18     house when you came in March 1999?

19        A.   My father who died two years ago, my mother who died a year ago,

20     my brother, and his wife.  Four people altogether.

21        Q.   Thank you.  How many brothers did you have, brothers who were

22     alive, in March 1999?

23        A.   We are four brothers.  Two of us live abroad and two have lived

24     in the Gjakove city.

25        Q.   And you are one of the two that lived in Djakovica?

Page 5984

 1        A.   That's right.

 2        Q.   Well, can you tell me whether the two brothers who were abroad

 3     remained there during the war in 1999?

 4        A.   Yes, one has been living abroad for 38 years.  The other brother

 5     used to live there and he returned two years -- he had left Kosova two

 6     years earlier, and he was there during the war.

 7        Q.   Abroad?

 8        A.   Yes, yes.

 9        Q.   Whenever you can, please answer by just saying yes or no.

10             And I see here that you said that you had four or five children.

11     Could you please tell me what -- how old were they in 1999?

12        A.   I have four children.  I never said I had five.  I have four.

13     Two daughters and two sons.  The eldest daughter was 16.  The second

14     daughter was 15.  My eldest son was 13.  And the little son was 3.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Parashumti, I can see that you did your national

16     service.  What colour uniform did you wear when you were in the army?

17        A.   Blue.  It was the colour of the army, and I served my military

18     service in Slovenia.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Were you perhaps in the border patrol?

20        A.   No, I was a driver.  I had my instruction to Rijeka, but the

21     appointment was given to me at Tulmin near Nova Gorica.

22        Q.   Thank you.  And can you tell me whether you served in the reserve

23     force once you returned from your national service in the army?

24        A.   Yes, I have.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And did you have any insignia on the uniforms, and if

Page 5985

 1     yes, what kind of insignia?

 2        A.   Yes.  Can you please repeat because I did not quite understand.

 3        Q.   Yes, yes.  I asked you if you had any kind of insignia on the

 4     uniform, or if you didn't, perhaps if other people did, if they had some

 5     rank that you didn't have?

 6        A.   Do you mean my uniform or somebody else's uniform?  My uniform

 7     was the simple soldier's uniform.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  And did the officers have any kind of insignia on

 9     their uniforms; and if yes, do you remember what kind of insignia and

10     where were they?

11        A.   Yes, I do remember.  And even asking about that could lead us

12     into who we were and what kind of soldiers they had.  Vukusic, Mario, who

13     was mine and my platoon's commander.

14        Q.   Do you understand what I'm asking you?  I'm asking you whether

15     the commander of whatever platoon, company, battalion, had any insignia;

16     and if you do, what kind of insignia, do you remember that?  I'm not

17     interested in the persons names.

18        A.   The commander was a four-star rank officer.

19        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me where was your apartment in

20     Djakovica?  What street?

21        A.   My apartment?

22        Q.   Yes.

23        A.   At the outskirts of the town way out of the city on the way to

24     Prizren near the police station.  There is a building which is called

25     Skenderbeu number 12.

Page 5986

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And can you tell me how far is it from your parents'

 2     house, that apartment?

 3        A.   About 5 kilometres, 4 and a half, 5.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And could you tell me how long had you lived in that

 5     apartment of yours?

 6        A.   I got into that place in 1989, and I still live there, after this

 7     year that is, 2009.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  And can you tell me, your wife and your two children

 9     went to her parents place, is this in the same area, in the

10     Milosh Gilic Street or was it in some other neighbourhood in Djakovica?

11        A.   My wife went to Cabrat.  It's a neighbourhood which is called the

12     Qyli neighbourhood which from the main road takes you to Cabrat.

13        Q.   Thank you.  And where was Afrim Berisha's house?

14        A.   Afrim Berisha's house was behind mine, about 35 metres away.

15     There is an empty space, like a road, there's the wall and then it's his

16     house.  So it's behind me and Januz Cana's houses.

17        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me your parents' house, where was the

18     entrance to the house, on what side?  I mean, what side of the street,

19     were they from Milos Gilic Street or some other street?

20        A.   There were two entrances because we lived with our uncle as well,

21     so he had his own entrance and we had ours on the side, on the

22     Fehme Agani side of the street.  We also had two back entrances, my

23     uncle's as well as ours.  The doors were smaller, though.  They are not

24     the same size as the front doors on the Fehme Agani side of the house.

25        Q.   Thank you.  And in 1999 was the street called Fehme Agani Street,

Page 5987

 1     or did it have some other name?

 2        A.   Forgive me, it was called Millosh Giliq at that time.  It is now

 3     called Fehme Agani.  I suddenly confused the two eras.  But in the old

 4     days it was certainly called Millosh Giliq.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Can you tell me -- well, I saw on the photograph the

 6     first house from the street, was it your brother's house and then your

 7     house was behind it, or were the two houses side by side?

 8        A.   My uncle's house and my house shared the same roofs.  It was the

 9     same big house split in two, which is the same to this day.  We haven't

10     finished --

11        Q.   Sorry, I got mixed -- I got mixed up.  Could you please just tell

12     me whether they were deeper into the courtyard, or were they on the

13     street itself?

14        A.   They were deeper.  There was a yard in front.

15        Q.   Thank you.  You must know how wide and how deep this plot of land

16     was?

17        A.   It's about 5 acres altogether.  I think it's 14 metres wide; I

18     don't know how deep it is though, but I know that the surface area is

19     about 5 acres.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And could you tell me, from the street, from the gate

21     at the entrance to the yard and -- how far was it from the house?  So

22     from the street to the house, what was the distance?

23        A.   I understand, I understand.  About 20 metres, but I can't be

24     certain.  It could be 22, it could be 23; I'm not certain.

25        Q.   Yes, of course you can't.  I'm asking you to give me an

Page 5988

 1     approximation.  And the yard itself, was there a wall around it?

 2        A.   On two sides of the house there was wall.  However, between my

 3     uncle's house and ours, we had a gate.

 4        Q.   Thank you.  And how high was the wall and what was the wall made

 5     of?

 6        A.   It was built of building blocks, concrete.  The height, I don't

 7     understand.  Do you mean how high it was, the wall?

 8        Q.   Yes.

 9        A.   I think roughly 1.60 metres.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And the gate, what was it made and how high was it?

11        A.   The doors at my place and the uncle's place were iron made.  It

12     was at a distance of 22, 23 metres up to the balcony of the house.  I

13     could be wrong by roughly 2 or 3 metres.

14        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please describe the house where you

15     were.  What did the house look like?

16        A.   Just like a normal house, a one-storied house.

17        Q.   Does that mean that it had a ground floor and then the first

18     floor, and that's all?

19        A.   One story, it had a single roof.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And could you tell me how high the house was?  How

21     high could you get, for instance?

22        A.   Do you mean the wall or do you mean the entire height of the

23     house?

24        Q.   Not the height of the house.  I mean the height from the ground

25     to the place where you can stand on or in your house.  What was that

Page 5989

 1     height?

 2        A.   The height of the walls was around 2 metres, and I have no idea

 3     how high the roof was.  Was it 4 metres, 3 and a half metres?  I'm not a

 4     builder.  I really don't know, and I can't guess.  I can't.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Let me ask you this:  The houses around this house,

 6     were they all the same height, were those standardised houses, all the

 7     same?

 8        A.   Thank you.  The whole neighbourhood had the same architecture

 9     more or less, it was the same height, it could be a difference of 20, 30

10     centimetres, with the exception of the newest houses which were built

11     later according to some sort of international plan.  Our houses, however,

12     were built on old designs based on the laws of former Yugoslavia at the

13     time.  So the whole neighbourhood had to build the -- exactly the same

14     model of the houses, that was the law, and they were of the same height.

15        Q.   Thank you very much, Witness.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it's time

17     for our break now.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  We have a break now of half an hour, and we will

19     continue at 11.00.  The court officer will show you out.

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

21                           [The witness stands down]

22                           --- Recess taken at 10.29 a.m.

23                           --- On resuming at 11.01 a.m.

24                           [The witness takes the stand]

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Djurdjic.

Page 5990

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 2        Q.   Mr. Parashumti, in your statement it says that you arrived at the

 3     house of your parents on the 1st of April; is that correct?

 4        A.   No, on the 20th of April.

 5        Q.   It's paragraph 2 of your statement of 2000.  It says you arrived

 6     on the 1st of April, and first you went to see your colleague, an

 7     Albanian and his wife, and that Albanian was killed and then you decided

 8     to go to your parents' house?

 9        A.   Yes.

10             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the Prosecution is on

11     their feet.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

13             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I wonder if the witness would like a

14     copy of his statement if reference is being made to it.  I do have a hard

15     copy to spare, or it could be called up on the screen, if necessary.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Well, either you or Mr. Djurdjic can help me to

17     find the passage to which Mr. Djurdjic is referring.  I can't find it.

18             MR. DJURDJIC: [No interpretation]

19             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The first page of the statement,

21     paragraph number 2:

22             "After the NATO bombing started on the 24th of March, we did not

23     leave our home."

24             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, I now have it.  Thank you.  Now, are you

25     going to be asking questions about the statement, further questions?  If

Page 5991

 1     so, it could be useful for the witness to have a copy.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I agree, but there will be other

 3     documents as well.  If the witness can confirm something from the

 4     statement, I don't see why -- but anyway, it's P903.  We can call it up

 5     on the screen.  The Albanian version, page 1.  We have it in English.  We

 6     don't need the Serbian, but we need the Albanian.

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Can I say that I don't read the statement the way

 8     you read it with your last question.  It's not saying he moved to the

 9     house on the 1st of April.  I think the statement is merely speaking of a

10     visit to the house, whereas the witness's evidence was that he moved with

11     his parents on the 20th of April.

12             It may be an issue of the translation, but this reference in the

13     statement appears to be to a visit with his wife on the 1st of April to

14     the house of a friend.  It's not talking about him moving in with his

15     parents on the 20th of April.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Witness, in the second paragraph of your statement you say:

18             "After the NATO bombings started ... on the 24th, we did not

19     leave our home."

20             Which home do you mean?

21        A.   I'm sorry, but I did not understand you.  At the beginning?

22        Q.   Do you see in the second paragraph of the statement in front of

23     you -- can you read the sentence starting with "Prej fillimit."

24        A.   That's correct, that we did not leave our home.  But on the 1st I

25     just wasn't to the Cana's home because there was a death in the family, a

Page 5992

 1     relative of Cana had been killed.  He was a lawyer by profession.  He

 2     remained -- his body remained in his yard for three days and then he was

 3     taken into the house --

 4        Q.   Thank you.

 5        A.   -- and buried there.

 6        Q.   My question was about the end of this sentence, namely that you

 7     did not leave your home when the bombings started on the 24th of March.

 8     Which home -- which building do you mean when you say that?

 9        A.   I mean Januz Cana's home.

10        Q.   Witness, let's clear this up.  You had your apartment where you

11     explained at the exit from the town, and you had a house together with

12     your uncle.  Do you mean your apartment or your father's house when you

13     say we did not leave our home?

14        A.   When I speak about the 24th of March, there were no movement at

15     that time by people in the neighbourhood, and we went to this neighbour

16     to offer our condolences, and we risked our lives to go there.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  When you went to this family friend to express

18     your condolences, you went with your wife?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I went together with my wife.

20     He was an in-law of him.  He lived in another neighbourhood.  But his

21     wife and other women in the neighbourhood went to find the body and to

22     bury him.  I don't know how he died.  I know that he was killed.  And for

23     three days his body was lying in the yard.  He was a very well-known

24     person in Gjakove.  He was a lawyer.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  I wonder whether you could help us to understand,

Page 5993

 1     that was on the 24th of March.  On that day, where were you living with

 2     your wife?

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation]  On the 24th of March, I was at my

 4     father's together with my two children.  My wife and the other two

 5     children were at her parents.  In fact, her father was deceased, but her

 6     mother was there; and she stayed there together with the children until

 7     the 27th.  And then because part of the Cabrat neighbourhood was burned,

 8     they left the area there and came to my father's house on the

 9     27th of March.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you for that.

11             Mr. Djurdjic.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

13        Q.   Witness, I'm interested in this time, in the Serbian translation

14     I've got 12.05, that is just after noon.  Tell me, what time was it on

15     the 2nd of April when you saw the police knocking on doors?  That's

16     paragraph 3:

17             "On the 2nd of April at approximately 12.05..."

18             Why don't you tell me what time it was?

19        A.   It was at night.  12.05 midnight.  Around midnight.  It was 2405

20     as I can express it another way.

21        Q.   Now, I'd like to come back to the 1st of April when you were

22     going back home with your wife.  You were confronted by three policemen.

23     Will you tell us what these policemen were doing.  Where were they?

24        A.   Januz Cana's wife and his son saw us off up to the gate.  There

25     was also Ganimete Cana with us.  And my wife saw the policemen when she

Page 5994

 1     was at the gate and said, There are three policemen there.  And we went

 2     back.  We stayed there for about several minute, maybe 4 or 5 minutes;

 3     and then Fatmir Cana said, You can go now, they won't do anything to you.

 4             He was not afraid, he was a student in France, he lived and

 5     studied in France for about ten years, he did not know what fear was.

 6     But we were afraid because we lived with fear.

 7             Fatmir went ahead of us.  The three policemen stopped at my

 8     garage.  There is a tree there.  He took out his gun, but he did not

 9     shoot.  Thank God we were able to go home and Fatmir stayed there and

10     watched us until we got home.  This is what happened.

11        Q.   Thank you.  I forgot to ask you before, were you employed at the

12     time?

13        A.   No.  Nothing was working at the time.  No factories.  There was

14     only one tile factory that was still operational, all the others were

15     closed down.  From 1990, nothing was happening and nobody was working.

16     Not because they didn't want to work, but because we were not allowed to

17     work.

18        Q.   Thank you.  But before you stopped working, were you on sick

19     leave?

20        A.   Could be.  From 1981 I have been ill, yes.

21        Q.   Will you tell us why you went to see a doctor?

22        A.   I suffer from prostate and my kidneys as well.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Did you take sick leave now and then, or were you

24     in -- on sick leave for a long time beginning with 1990?

25        A.   We were not working in 1990 because everything was closed down.

Page 5995

 1     Nothing was being produced.

 2        Q.   Thank you.  Just tell me, how long were you on sick leave?

 3        A.   After 1981 up to 1990 I had health problems, and I was away from

 4     work for two or three weeks at a time.  I took medication for my

 5     condition and so on.

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Did you continue to be ill after 1990?

 7        A.   [No interpretation]

 8        Q.   On that first of April, what time was it when you saw the

 9     policemen outside your gate?

10        A.   It was about 2.00 to 3.00 in the afternoon.  1500 hours.

11        Q.   And why did you not dare approach those policemen standing

12     outside your gate?

13        A.   We couldn't speak to them.  It wasn't possible.  It would be

14     dangerous.  It would be dangerous to look them in the eye, let alone

15     speak to them.

16        Q.   Thank you.  Was the gate open?

17        A.   Yes.  At that time, they were open.  During day-time we would

18     leave them open, at night we would close them.  The whole neighbourhood

19     did the same thing, they would lock the doors at night.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Did the policemen go into your yard, into your house?

21        A.   These ones, the three on this occasion, no, no, I apologise, no,

22     they did not enter my yard.

23        Q.   And did you watch them standing outside your gate all that time?

24        A.   After we went back home, we did not see them anymore, and we did

25     not venture out.  There was a garage there and that's where we saw them.

Page 5996

 1     When we were trying to get out of Januz Cana's house, we saw them, they

 2     were at the garage.  Then we went into our yard.  They were not in my

 3     yard; they were on the main road in front of the garage.

 4        Q.   Could you just explain, when you come in from the street, do you

 5     come straight into the garage, the one you are talking about?

 6        A.   There is a sidewalk about 3 metres wide and then you can see the

 7     gate to the garage.

 8        Q.   And where is the entrance gate relative to the garage?

 9        A.   About 1 to 1.20 metres from the garage.

10        Q.   What kind of uniform were those policemen wearing?

11        A.   Blue.  All three of them.  They were single coloured blue.

12        Q.   How far were you from them when you saw them?

13        A.   When I was going into my yard, I was about 2 metres from them.

14        Q.   Thank you.  Did they have any insignia on the uniforms?

15        A.   No, nothing.  Just uniforms, no emblems or insignia.

16        Q.   And did they wear anything in terms of head-gear?

17        A.   Police caps.

18        Q.   What does that police cap look like?

19        A.   The caps were similar to the military ones.  The ones that they

20     used to have before.  Not the ones that the traffic police wear.

21        Q.   Thank you.  Was that the same model of the cap like the one you

22     wore in the army?

23        A.   Yes, yes, similar.  The colour was different.

24        Q.   Could you please tell me your date of birth.

25        A.   I was born on the 13th of August, 1955.

Page 5997

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] May I now call up P904.  It's

 2     already an exhibit.

 3        Q.   Witness, this B is the house of your father; correct?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  And could you mark the house --

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, will you please

 7     instruct me if I may continue using this drawing and ask the witness to

 8     make additional markings, or do you want me to take a new blank

 9     photograph for the new markings?  What is better?

10             JUDGE PARKER:  A blank would be better, yes.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Then I would like the

12     65 ter document 275.

13        Q.   Could you please just mark the house where you were in the

14     evening of the 2nd of April.

15        A.   My close family stayed in the basement of my uncle's, which is

16     here.  This is the entrance to the basement.

17        Q.   Could you please listen to what I'm asking you to do.  Could you

18     mark the house, your father's house, and put number 1 next to that one.

19        A.   [Marks]

20        Q.   And could you please put number 1 next to it, or rather, in the

21     middle --

22        A.   [Marks]

23        Q.   -- of the square, yes, thank you.  Now, could you please mark

24     your uncle's house with number 2.

25        A.   [Marks]

Page 5998

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like you to mark Cana Januz's house and

 2     mark it with number 3.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Could you please just put number 3 in there.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Now, I would like you to mark Naser Rudi's house.

 7        A.   [Marks]

 8        Q.   And could you please mark it with number 4.

 9        A.   [Marks]

10        Q.   Now, I would like you to mark Dardan Riza's house?  Very well.

11     And then if we look at this photograph, don't make any markings because

12     it's not on the photograph.  Where is Dardan Riza's house?  It's not on

13     the photograph, but is it to the left, to the right, behind the road,

14     behind the houses that we can see here, on this side, or on the other

15     side where we are?

16        A.   It's on our side some 2, 3, 4, 5, the 6th house in our

17     direction -- house down in our direction, on our side.

18        Q.   So it's opposite the street behind your house, the house that

19     belonged to your father and to your uncle, is that what you are trying to

20     tell us?

21        A.   They are all in a row.

22        Q.   Well, if they are all in a row, is it then to the left or to the

23     right?

24        A.   To the left.

25        Q.   Behind house number 4?

Page 5999

 1        A.   Yes.

 2             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's remark:  Could the speakers,

 3     please, not overlap.

 4             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 5        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  So Behar Haxhiavdia's house, do you know where

 6     that one is?  Can we see it on the photograph?

 7        A.   No, it is not.  It's his wife's family.  He lives in another

 8     neighbourhood, but his wife had sought shelter here.

 9             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours.

10             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Ms. Gopalan.

11             MS. GOPALAN:  Please could we briefly go into private session.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Private.

13                           [Private session]

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24                           [Open session]

25             THE REGISTRAR:  We are in open session, Your Honours.

Page 6000

 1             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   Now I would like you to mark Lulzim Vejsa's house.

 3        A.   [Marks]

 4        Q.   Thank you.  Now, could you please mark it with number 5.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like to ask you to draw Dardan Riza's

 7     house.

 8        A.   In this direction to the left, but it can't be seen.  It's to the

 9     left, a bit higher.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Well, here where you put the red line, could you

11     please mark it with number 7.

12        A.   [Marks]

13        Q.   But inside the photograph.  And I do apologise.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This black part here, will we see

15     it on the photograph or not?  Will it remain like this?

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] We can go on then.

18        Q.   Could you please -- well, how far is this house?

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] for the record, number 7 --

20             JUDGE PARKER:  You've already asked that, Mr. Djurdjic.  The

21     witness has told you all of this about that house.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23        Q.   The Krasniqi house, could you please mark that one.

24        A.   The Krasniqi's house cannot be seen here.  The Berisha's,

25     however, can be seen, the Krasniqis are further down.  Not the first,

Page 6001

 1     second, or -- the third one belongs to the Krasniqis.  It's in this

 2     direction, but it can't be seen.

 3             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]  Is this inside the photograph?  I

 4     need the assistance -- I need to know that.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  I don't understand what you are asking,

 6     Mr. Djurdjic.  You are told that the Krasniqi house is not on the

 7     photograph.

 8             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, you can see the red

 9     marking at the bottom of the photograph.  I'm merely asking whether it's

10     visible, whether it will remain visible, whether it's part of the

11     photograph; and then we can mark it with a number or else we can just ask

12     him to describe and tell us that this is the direction in which the

13     Krasniqi house is.  So whether this will be saved as part of the

14     photograph.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  It won't be saved where he has marked.  For the

16     record, the witness has indicated the Krasniqi house is off the picture

17     on the bottom of the photograph.  So it doesn't need to be marked,

18     Mr. Djurdjic.

19             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

20        Q.   Witness, sir, how far is your father's house from the Krasniqi

21     house?

22        A.   It must be around 60 metres.  I'm not 100 per cent certain

23     though.  50 to 60 metres, approximately.

24        Q.   Thank you.  And now could you mark the police car that you saw.

25     Just put a dot where that car was.

Page 6002

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Could you please make the dot a little bigger, and mark it with

 3     number 8.

 4        A.   [Marks]

 5        Q.   Very well.  Thank you.  Apart from that car, while you were up

 6     there, did you see anything elsewhere that place where you were standing?

 7     I'm not talking about people.

 8        A.   No.  I heard other voices, and I heard the voices of other

 9     cars -- I heard, sorry, the sound of other cars.  I heard cars that made

10     a louder noise, but I was not able to see them.

11        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like you to mark the location where you

12     saw three policemen with another dot.

13        A.   [Marks]

14        Q.   Now, could you please put number 9 next to it.  Above the dot,

15     please.

16        A.   [Marks]

17        Q.   Thank you.  Could you tell me what uniform did those three police

18     officers wear?  What kind of uniforms?

19        A.   They wore hats.  They had green uniforms on.

20        Q.   Thank you.  And were you able to see any other details on the

21     uniforms?

22        A.   I can't remember.  It was dark.  It was pitch dark, and I can't

23     remember.  I remember that there were three of them.  There was the

24     flickering of the flames lasted only seconds, and then there was deep

25     darkness.  And the wind was blowing in the direction of the flames.

Page 6003

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, I would like to ask you to mark with an X very

 2     carefully the place where you were standing, but I don't want us to ruin

 3     this photograph, so could you please just mark it very neatly and

 4     carefully with an X.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please put number 10 above it.

 7     Number 10 above this X that you put in.

 8        A.   [Marks]

 9        Q.   Excellent.  Thank you very much.  Now, I would like you to tell

10     me, I don't want us to ruin the photograph, the other people who came

11     into your yard, where were they?  Where did you see them?

12        A.   Here.  Do you want me to mark it?  That's the dot near that wall.

13        Q.   Yes, but please -- thank you.  I don't want you to ruin the

14     photograph.  Mark it, but let's not ruin the markings that we already

15     have.

16             Now, Witness, I didn't see whether you marked the location where

17     the other three policemen were or not.

18        A.   Yes, here.  Where the number 9 is.

19        Q.   Please, is this the second dot that you put on the left?

20        A.   To the left.

21        Q.   Excellent.  Then mark it with number 11.

22        A.   [Marks]

23        Q.   Thank you.  Now, could you tell me, the other policemen that you

24     marked with number 11, when you saw them did you see what colour

25     uniforms --

Page 6004

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  Sorry, that is not policemen.  The witness has

 2     said they were people.  He was asked to mark where people were in his

 3     yard.  Do you want him to say whether they are police or not?

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] They were policemen in uniform.

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Now the records tells us.  Thank you.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

 7        Q.   But I wanted to ask you if you could see from the place where you

 8     were what colour uniforms they were wearing?

 9        A.   Blue.

10        Q.   Thank you.  And could you please tell me, you say that you saw

11     Dragan Shipanoviq and Nenad -- I assume it's Nenad Raqeviq and two other

12     policemen exiting Cana's house.  Can you tell me, where did they go out?

13        A.   That is true.  I saw four policemen there.

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

15             MS. GOPALAN:  I'd just like to point out that the corrections

16     that --

17             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, we know that.

18             MS. GOPALAN:  Okay.  Thank you.  Your Honours.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  The point of the corrections is that the witness

20     says he is not sure about the names.  He is sure there were four, but he

21     is not sure that they were the two names that you have mentioned.  He

22     suspects it was them.

23             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Very well.  I'm not interested in

24     the names.  I merely put them in for easier reference.

25        Q.   So these people that you saw, I'm interested in the other part.

Page 6005

 1     Where were they going to when they left?  So these people that you say

 2     that they were policemen in Cana's yard, why did you see them?  They

 3     passed through what?

 4        A.   They went out together with Januz Cana's daughter.  Two were

 5     holding her by the shoulders and were heaving her, and then they tore her

 6     pyjamas apart.  There were two following behind, one had a torch, an

 7     electrical torch, and was showing it towards the tunnel which links to

 8     the main road.

 9             From one of the policemen, from the light of the torch one could

10     see that one of the policemen had a knife in his hand.  Then they pulled

11     her by the hair and a scream was heard.  She screamed in Serbian, she

12     said, "You killed my father."  I was not able to see her father being

13     killed, but that's what she said, that her father had been killed.

14             Before the entrance to the tunnel, there was this scream.

15     However, when she went into the tunnel - and I remember because I was

16     very scared - I really heard an awful scream, just like, you know, the

17     screams that you get when you slaughter animals.  And from that moment

18     onwards I just descended; I was unable to stay there because I felt very

19     scared.

20        Q.   Witness, where is this tunnel on this photograph?

21        A.   May I mark it?  Do you want me to put a dot?

22        Q.   Yes, okay.

23        A.   [Marks]

24        Q.   Thank you.  And could you mark it with number 12.

25        A.   [Marks]

Page 6006

 1        Q.   Thank you.  And can you tell me, the numbers marked -- the

 2     numbers 9 to 11, does this mark the wall between the yard that belonged

 3     to your uncle and your father and Cana's yard?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Do you have to go out into the street in order to be

 6     able to get into Cana's yard?

 7        A.   Only from the main road.  There is no entrance.

 8        Q.   Thank you.  I beg your pardon, but did I ask about

 9     Afrim Berisha's house?  To tell you the truth, I can't recall right now

10     whether I did or not.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  No, you did not.

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Afrim Berisha's house can be seen

13     very, very little.  It's on the side.  However, Naim Berisha's house, his

14     uncle's son, can be seen.  Do you want me to mark Naim's house because

15     Afrim's cannot be seen here in this picture.  Only a little bit can be

16     seen there.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   So you can't see it at all?

19        A.   You can see just a little bit.  Only a little bit.  Just a

20     corner.  Do you want me to mark it?

21        Q.   So could you please just mark the corner.

22        A.   No need to mark.  Yes, this bit can be seen.  This belongs to the

23     uncle's house.  The whole of it.  Once Afrim's house cannot be seen, just

24     a bit of it.

25        Q.   But where, where is that small part?  I didn't really understand

Page 6007

 1     what you were saying.

 2        A.   The corner that can be seen belongs to Afrim Berisha's house,

 3     while the full house belongs to his uncle's son called Naim Berisha.

 4        Q.   I just don't understand what part of the picture are you

 5     referring to, to the left, to the right, up, down?

 6        A.   Forgive me, but you asked about Afrim Berisha's house, and it's

 7     off the picture.  I was born here and lived there, but I can't see Afrim

 8     Berisha's house there.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  But you told me that only a little part was visible,

10     but if it's not visible, then it's okay.  But in what direction was his

11     house?

12        A.   I mean this one which can be seen only a little bit, to the

13     bottom, towards the bottom of this picture.  Only a tiny bit of the house

14     can be seen there.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Thank you.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Now I would like to tender this

17     into evidence.

18             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

19             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned D00220, Your Honours.

20             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Could we get again

21     65 ter 275.

22        Q.   Witness, this first white house on the right-hand side, whose

23     house was that?

24        A.   You mean this one here?  Do you mean this one?

25        Q.   Yes, yes, the white house.  There is a roof covering two houses.

Page 6008

 1     No, up there.  You see the angle of the house and another house next to

 2     it.

 3        A.   Yes.  This is Lulzim Vejsa's house.

 4        Q.   Will you put number 1 there, please.

 5        A.   [Marks]

 6        Q.   Thank you.  And deep down behind that house we can see another

 7     house.  Whose house was that?

 8        A.   That was a coffee shop, a cafeteria.

 9        Q.   Please listen to me carefully, Witness.  You've just told me that

10     a tavern was located in this house number 1?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   Thank you.  I'm asking you about the house at the top of the

13     picture, the roof of which we can see in the right-hand top corner.

14        A.   Here, you mean?

15        Q.   If you see that roof, put a mark there.  To the extreme right, a

16     large house, the top of the picture.

17        A.   This one here?

18        Q.   Whose house was that?

19        A.   Lutfi Nuci's.

20        Q.   Thank you.  Put number 2 there, please.

21        A.   [Marks]

22        Q.   What about the house right next to number 2, to whom did it

23     belong?

24        A.   This was Lul Vejsa's house.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Put number 3 there, please.

Page 6009

 1        A.   [Marks]

 2        Q.   Next to number 2 on the right there is a house with a roof.

 3     Whose house was that?

 4        A.   His son's house, Enver's house.

 5        Q.   Please put number 4 on the roof of that house.

 6        A.   [Marks]

 7        Q.   To the right we see again another roof next to number 4.  Whose

 8     house was that?

 9        A.   This is a long garage.  It's Xhemil Caka's.

10        Q.   Thank you.  Put number 5 there, please.

11        A.   [Marks]

12        Q.   In front of number 5, the roof that is four sided, whose house

13     was that?

14        A.   This is Xhemil Caka's house.

15        Q.   Thank you.  Put number 6 there.

16        A.   [Marks]

17        Q.   The house next to number 5, to the right, whose house was that?

18        A.   This is Fetah Kastrati's house.

19        Q.   Seven.

20        A.   [Marks]

21        Q.   And the house behind number 7?

22        A.   This is Mat Buriqi's house.  He is a Montenegrin.  Mato Boric.

23        Q.   Thank you.  Put number 8, please.

24        A.   [Marks]

25        Q.   And what about house -- the house behind number 7, to the right

Page 6010

 1     of number 5?

 2        A.   The two-story house, the big one you mean?

 3        Q.   Yes.

 4        A.   This is Fetah Kastrati's brother's house, Ramiz Kastrati's house.

 5        Q.   Thank you.  Mark it with 9, please.

 6        A.   [Marks]

 7        Q.   Now, let's move to the other side of the street.  The first house

 8     in the street opposite the car, whose house was that?

 9        A.   With the red-tiled roof?  Two families lived there.  On the left

10     a Serb elderly woman lived there.  On the right there was someone of the

11     Roma ethnicity, and he still live there is.

12        Q.   Please mark the house of the Serb lady with 10, and the house of

13     the Roma with 11.

14        A.   [Marks]

15        Q.   Thank you.  Now, let's move to your side of the street.  Do you

16     see, opposite the car, this tiled roof?

17        A.   It is between two houses.

18        Q.   You see on your side of the street two houses one next to

19     another, both of them have a roof.  Whose houses were they?

20        A.   This is the new house of Januz Cana.

21        Q.   Please mark it with a 12.

22        A.   [Marks]

23        Q.   And the left one also belongs to him; right?  Never mind then.

24     Now, to the right of the tree at the entrance to your yard, there is a

25     house with a tiled roof.  What is that structure?  Was that someone's

Page 6011

 1     house?

 2        A.   This is a small building.  It was a garage.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  What about the house behind this large roof?

 4        A.   This was a shop.  It is a grocery shop.

 5        Q.   It's a bit deeper inside, behind the garage.  If it was a grocery

 6     store, tell us.

 7        A.   This was Xhevdet Muhaxhiri's.

 8        Q.   Mark Xhevdet's shop with 14, please.

 9        A.   Fourteen.

10        Q.   And the roof below 14, who was the owner?

11        A.   This is Xhevdet Muhaxhiri's house where he lived.  It is his

12     house in fact, but he lived in America.  Now he lives in Gjakove.

13        Q.   Could you please mark it with 13.

14        A.   [Marks]

15        Q.   Now, in the right-hand-side corner of the picture we see another

16     roof.  Whose house was that?

17        A.   This is Agron Nagavci's house.

18        Q.   Thank you, will you put number 15 there, please.

19        A.   [Marks]

20        Q.   Thank you, Witness.  And what about the house at the bottom of

21     the picture with the roof, below 15?

22        A.   Blerim Nagavci's, his brother.

23        Q.   Will you put number 16 there, please.

24        A.   There are four brothers living there.  Two live in the front part

25     of the house, the other two live in the lower part of the house.

Page 6012

 1        Q.   Thank you.  Now, when you go from 16 to the left, there is a

 2     structure with a roof on it.  Was that an outhouse, or did someone live

 3     in there?

 4        A.   Well, I think it was a house, the number 16 was a house, yes.

 5        Q.   That's not what I asked you.  You marked it already.  But when

 6     you go to the left, I want to be fair and to ask you about all the houses

 7     with roofs.  We see another roof, was that a residential building or an

 8     auxiliary structure, an outhouse?

 9        A.   That was an auxiliary structure.  They kept their food there.

10     They did not live there.

11             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.  Your Honours, I would

12     like to tender this document.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] May I now call up D002-5109,

15     please.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  And that, Your Honours, will be assigned D00221.

17             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   Witness, could you tell me, which uniform design did you see that

19     night, the night of the 1st or the 2nd?

20        A.   The blue one.  This one here.

21        Q.   Please put a circle around it, please.

22        A.   [Marks]

23        Q.   And mark it with number 1.

24        A.   [Marks]

25        Q.   Did you see any other design?

Page 6013

 1        A.   Yes, only three.  This one here.  It looks like it.

 2             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to tender this

 3     document.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 5             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned D00222, Your Honours.

 6             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]

 7        Q.   Witness, in the statement you gave in 2000 and in your

 8     corrigendum, or rather, supplemental information of the 15th March, 2002,

 9     you did not mention that anyone seized your documents; is that correct?

10        A.   Can you repeat the question, please.  I did not understand it.

11        Q.   In your 2000 statement and in the supplement you made in 2002,

12     you did not mention that anyone asked for your documents, your IDs, and

13     that you had to turn them over when you were leaving Djakovica; right?

14        A.   I can't remember.  I know that I've told the truth and the truth

15     is that they did not allow anyone to proceed towards Albania without

16     handing over their documents.  It could be that I did not mention it, but

17     that is the truth, that I had to give up my document, my ID.  The other

18     documents that were in my flat, they are still there.  The one that I had

19     on me on that day, I had to give it to them because otherwise I wouldn't

20     be allowed to go to Albania.

21        Q.   Thank you.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you Witness, I have no

23     further questions for you.

24             Thank you, Your Honours.  I have completed my cross-examination.

25             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.

Page 6014

 1             Ms. Gopalan.

 2             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I do have some re-examination.  I

 3     wonder if it's possible for the break to be taken now and for me to

 4     resume with my re-examination after, or I could begin immediately as

 5     well.

 6             JUDGE PARKER:  You expect to take more than seven or eight

 7     minutes, do you?

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, I do, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  We will resume at 10 minutes to 1.00.

10                           [The witness stands down]

11                           --- Recess taken at 12.23 p.m.

12                           --- On resuming at 12.55 p.m.

13                           [The witness takes the stand]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. Gopalan.

15                           Re-examination by Ms. Gopalan:

16        Q.   Good afternoon, sir.

17        A.   Good afternoon.

18        Q.   I just have a few questions for you today before you complete

19     your testimony.  Now, sir, towards the end of the last session, Defence

20     counsel asked you some questions about your identity documents.  You

21     said, and I quote.

22        A.   Right.

23        Q.   "... I've told the truth and the truth is that they did not allow

24     anyone to proceed to Albania without handing over their documents."

25             Sir, when you said "they did not allow anyone to proceed to

Page 6015

 1     Albania," who were you referring to when you say "they"?

 2        A.   They means the two policemen who were stationed at that little

 3     building that looked like a small shop.

 4        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, I'd like to ask you some questions about

 5     the three policemen you were confronted by.  You spoke about this in your

 6     testimony today at page 33.  You say that Januz Cana's wife and his son

 7     saw you off to the gate, and that his son -- sorry, her son, Fatmir Cana

 8     was not afraid but "We were afraid because we lived with fear."  Could

 9     you explain to us what you meant when you said you were afraid because

10     you lived with fear?  What were you afraid of?

11        A.   We were afraid of the police.  The uniform instilled terror.

12        Q.   And why is that, sir?

13        A.   If you were not somebody in their eyes, they could play around

14     with you.

15        Q.   And what do you mean by "play around with you"?

16        A.   We were afraid that should we not stop, they would kill us.

17        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, on that evening, what happened to

18     Fatmir Cana, if you know?

19        A.   That day in the evening, in the late hours of the evening, it

20     might have been 1.40, 1.45, when I heard gun-shots coming from within his

21     house.  I couldn't see anything.  Everybody heard the gun-shots, not only

22     me.  Throughout the neighbourhood we were able to hear shooting.

23        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, do you know what happened to Fatmir Cana?

24     If you don't, we can move on.

25        A.   I don't know anything.  I know that he is not alive, but I did

Page 6016

 1     not see anything.  I didn't see what happened to Fatmir or Januz or

 2     Ganimete, the only thing I know is what befell Shpresa.

 3        Q.   Now you mentioned Januz and Gamimete, could you remind us who

 4     they are, Januz and Ganimete?

 5        A.   Januz was the head of the household, a teacher by profession.

 6     Ganimete was his wife.  Shpresa is the eldest daughter, Fatmir being

 7     their son.

 8        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, after the incident in April that you

 9     described, did you see Januz and Ganimete again?

10        A.   I saw Januz in the evening when I knocked on the door to ask him

11     to leave the house.  Because by that time police cars were being -- were

12     audible and police started emerging in the main road even though they had

13     not started coming into our yards.  And I told them to leave the house.

14     Januz emerged from the window to say he would not abandon his house, if

15     people were to come they would be welcome, I haven't done anything to

16     anybody.

17        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, when you returned to your neighbourhood in

18     June, did you see Januz and Ganimete again?

19        A.   I returned on the 25th of June.  We arrived late in the evening,

20     in the afternoon, in the evening.  However, the next day on the 26th we

21     were unable to get into the Vejsa's because of the foul smell, but we

22     were unable to see anything.  We got in, but we saw a charred house.  And

23     the whole house, every room was full of tiles because the beams had

24     burned down and everything had collapsed.

25             I haven't seen anything with my own eyes, but I heard there were

Page 6017

 1     two bodies found inside.  I heard that the bodies had been retrieved

 2     before the 25th, but I don't know -- two of them -- two of those bodies

 3     were inside the room.  People were able to see them, but I myself never

 4     saw any bodies.  That's the truth.

 5        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Now, just to clarify your answer, I would like

 6     to ask you about Januz and Ganimete specifically.  I think you testified

 7     earlier that they were your neighbours.  Did you see your neighbours in

 8     their home after you returned to your neighbourhood?  So this was in

 9     June.

10        A.   No, no, I did not.  Neither did I see them alive, nor did I see

11     their bodies.  I saw their grave-site though, the grave of the four

12     family members.

13        Q.   And where was this grave-site of the four family members?

14        A.   Their grave-site was near --

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

16             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I think that I was patient enough

17     regarding Ganimete and Januz.  The witness responded, he said everything,

18     and now we go back to the beginning and the witness said that he didn't

19     know.  I think that the question -- that the answers were quite specific

20     and I -- nothing in my cross-examination has given rise to this kind of

21     re-examination.

22             JUDGE PARKER:  The last point, Ms. Gopalan.

23             MS. GOPALAN:  I would simply refer counsel to page 33, I believe,

24     where reference is made to the events that took place in the Cana

25     household where the individuals I've asked about were mentioned.

Page 6018

 1             JUDGE PARKER:  The point is that the questioning in

 2     cross-examination does not warrant you going now into this extended

 3     evidence about these people.  Is there something you would like to put

 4     about that?

 5             MS. GOPALAN:  Simply that I can stop at this stage, Your Honours.

 6     I believe that --

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Very good, that will be a satisfactory response.

 8             MS. GOPALAN:

 9        Q.   Sir, you were also asked some questions about the -- your

10     neighbourhood, and you marked a number of locations on the neighbourhood,

11     if you recall.  Do you remember making those markings on the photographs

12     that set out your neighbourhood?

13        A.   Yes, I do.

14        Q.   Thank you.  If you know, sir, based on the condition of the

15     houses on that photograph that you saw, are you able to tell us when that

16     photograph is from, if you know?

17        A.   Up until the 2nd of March, the whole neighbourhood was intact.

18     However, these pictures are ones which I haven't seen before.  I saw them

19     only today for the first time, but that's reality.  Everything was burned

20     down.

21        Q.   And what was it that happened on the 2nd of March up to which the

22     neighbourhood was intact?

23        A.   The 2nd of March?

24        Q.   It could be a mistranslation.  Let me just read out what the

25     transcript says.  It says:

Page 6019

 1             "Up until the 2nd of March, the whole neighbourhood was intact."

 2     Is that what you said?  Is March correct?

 3        A.   The neighbourhood was intact on the 2nd of March, but from the

 4     1st or the 2nd of April, things changed and that's where the change

 5     occurred throughout the neighbourhood.

 6        Q.   Thank you, sir.

 7             MS. GOPALAN:  Your Honours, I have no further questions for the

 8     witness but one issue to raise with you.  An exhibit that was marked

 9     during testimony today does not seem to reflect the full markings made by

10     the witness, and with your leave, I would like to call up the exhibit

11     again so that the complete marking can be reflected in the document that

12     was tendered into evidence.  I'm referring to P905 where the marking E

13     which related to the vehicle that Your Honours requested to be marked has

14     been omitted from the admitted exhibit.

15             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.  Yes.

16             MS. GOPALAN:  Could I call up --

17             JUDGE PARKER:  It's on the screen.

18             MS. GOPALAN:

19        Q.   Sir, I would like you to make a marking on the photograph on the

20     screen before you.  You've already made this marking before, but it

21     wasn't captured correctly.  Now, I believe you placed an E in the past to

22     where --

23        A.   I think so.

24        Q.    -- you identified the location of the vehicle that you saw.

25     Could you please place an E to mark the location of the vehicle that you

Page 6020

 1     saw.

 2        A.   [Marks]

 3        Q.   Thank you very much, sir.

 4             JUDGE PARKER:  Could you please mark an E in that location as

 5     well.

 6             THE WITNESS:  [Marks]

 7             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.  Do you now tender that --

 8             MS. GOPALAN:  Yes, please, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE PARKER:  -- in that completed form?  It will be received.

10     It will be received as Exhibit P905, so that it is complete.

11             Mr. Djurdjic.

12             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  I don't

13     want you to be too strict but perhaps I -- I didn't mark it correctly or

14     I didn't note it down correctly.  I thought it was P905, that's what I

15     noted down and not 904 because in 904 I have A, B, C and in the other one

16     I have D, and E.  If that could be checked.  I don't have any objections.

17             JUDGE PARKER:  We are in complete agreement, Mr. Djurdjic.  We've

18     just corrected Exhibit P905.

19             Sir, you'll be pleased to know that that concludes the questions

20     for you.  The Chamber would like to thank you for being able to come to

21     The Hague and for the assistance that you have been able to give.  We

22     will be looking at this in due course when we've finished all the

23     evidence, but we are grateful for the patience that you have shown and

24     the assistance you've provided.

25             You may, of course, now return to your normal activities and the

Page 6021

 1     court officer will show you out.

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 4                           [The witness withdrew]

 5             JUDGE PARKER:  Are you taking the next witness, Ms. Gopalan?

 6             MS. GOPALAN:  I'm not, Your Honours.  The next witness will be

 7     taken by Ms. D'Ascoli.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 9             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, the next witness is

10     Mr. Beqir Krasniqi, and his evidence relates to paragraph 25 to 32 of the

11     indictment.  And I think he is ready and can be brought in.

12             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

13                           [The witness entered court]

14             JUDGE PARKER:  Good afternoon, sir.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon to you.

16             JUDGE PARKER:  Do you solemnly declare that the evidence you will

17     give will be the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth?

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, I do.

19                           WITNESS:  BEQIR KRASNIQI

20                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Would you please sit down.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  Ms. D'Ascoli, you have some questions for

24     Mr. Krasniqi?

25             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yes.

Page 6022

 1                           Examination by Ms. D'Ascoli:

 2        Q.   Good morning, witness.

 3        A.   Good afternoon.

 4        Q.   Could you please state your full name for the record.

 5        A.   Yes, I am Beqir Krasniqi.

 6        Q.   Thank you, sir.  And could you also state your date and place of

 7     birth, please?

 8        A.   I was born in 1939, on the 5th of January.  I was born in

 9     Pusto Selo.

10        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Where are you currently living?

11        A.   I live in Pusto Selo.

12        Q.   What do you do, what is your occupation?

13        A.   I am a farmer.

14        Q.   Thank you, sir.  Mr. Krasniqi, yesterday during proofing, you

15     indicated sometimes you have difficulty understanding proper Albanian

16     when spoken fast or with complex words.  So I would please ask you, just

17     interrupt me and ask me to repeat or to go slower if you feel that you

18     haven't understood something, and the same applies for the Albanian

19     translation that you hear, if there's any problem with that, please just

20     let us know.  Okay.

21             Mr. Krasniqi --

22        A.   Okay.  Thank you very much.  Thank you.

23        Q.   Did you provide a statement to the Office of the Prosecutor of

24     this Tribunal in January 2000?

25        A.   Yes, I did.

Page 6023

 1        Q.   And did you also provide a second statement to the

 2     Office of the Prosecutor of this Tribunal in May 2008?

 3        A.   I did.

 4        Q.   Did you have the opportunity to review both statements recently;

 5     were these statements read back to you?

 6        A.   Yes, yes.

 7        Q.   And I understand you wanted to make some corrections to this

 8     statement.  So I will take you through these corrections.  Okay?  And I

 9     can start with the statement of 2000 which is the 65 ter number 05136.

10             Mr. Krasniqi, at page 3 --

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  And for the record this is in both versions in the

12     English and the B/C/S.

13        Q.   You indicated that you have a problem with what is described in

14     paragraph 5, in particular with the colours of the uniforms mentioned

15     there.  Do you remember?

16        A.   Yes, exactly.

17        Q.   And can you -- are you able to tell the Court what the problem is

18     with regard to this paragraph and the colours?

19        A.   Well, I don't -- I'm not able to show you the colours.  I cannot

20     see them very well.  But if you can show me them, I can point them out.

21        Q.   What do you mean --

22        A.   I cannot name them very well.

23        Q.   Okay.  So the problem is with the name of colours or with the

24     colours as you see them?

25        A.   Yes, exactly.  I can point them out if I see them.

Page 6024

 1        Q.   Okay.  So you are able to recognise colours, but you have

 2     difficulties --

 3        A.   [No interpretation]

 4        Q.   Okay.  And you have difficulties with what?

 5        A.   Yes, I am able.

 6        Q.   Okay.  Because -- if I can help you, in proofing you indicated to

 7     me that you have trouble understanding, for example, the meaning of the

 8     words blue or green that were mentioned in that part of the statement; is

 9     that correct?  Is that the problem?

10        A.   Yes.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  I see my learned colleague on his feet,

12     Your Honours.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

14             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Well, I don't understand this

15     examination about the circumstances of the proofing.  I simply don't

16     understand.  To my mind it would be better to admit the statement into

17     evidence and then to ask the questions about it to clarify.  Now the

18     witness is being asked questions that relate to the proofing session, and

19     then he is providing answers.

20             MS. D'ASCOLI:  May I reply, Your Honour?

21             JUDGE PARKER:  You may, Ms. D'Ascoli.

22             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yes, that's what I'm going to do, but when the

23     witness was reviewing the statement, he had had a problem specifically

24     with this paragraph.  I felt it was fair to point it out; and I'm later

25     going, of course, like, into the proper questioning.  And I will show

Page 6025

 1     some photographs to him to overcome this problem.  But I felt I had to

 2     address this issue.

 3             JUDGE PARKER:  The Chamber has noted that the witness is not

 4     satisfied that the paragraph reflects his true understanding, and it's to

 5     do with the colours that are shown of uniforms and that this may be

 6     partly to do with his visual recognition and partly to do with the

 7     language difficulty of which we've been aware in this trial about the

 8     colours blue and green.  Now so far that's what we know.

 9             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.  I can move on.

10        Q.   Mr. Krasniqi, there are then a number of small corrections that

11     you made, and I will just -- in order to save time, I will read them and

12     ask to confirm the corrections.  Okay.

13             At page 4, paragraph 7, for the record.  Do you remember there's

14     a sentence which says:  "I gave the money to my uncle."  And you said

15     that it was Tahir who gave the money to your uncle; is that correct?

16        A.   Yes, that's correct.

17        Q.   Okay.  In the same paragraph there is a sentence which mentions

18     Ali:

19             "... Ali, happened to know one of the Serbs who was a policeman

20     from Klina.  The person from Klina knows the name of the policeman?"

21             Is that correct that you indicated that you didn't know whether

22     in fact this person from Klina knew the name of the policeman?  Is that

23     correct, sir?

24        A.   I didn't know that.

25        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  Same paragraph, last sentence:

Page 6026

 1             "Ali left us and went in the direction where the women and

 2     children had gone."

 3             Sir, is it correct that you indicated that you don't remember

 4     about Ali going away?  That's correct.  I don't remember.

 5        Q.   Okay.  The last point, it's at page 6, paragraph 5, you indicated

 6     that your uncle Hadji Jemin Krasniqi was 88 years old, and not 84 as

 7     indicated; is that correct?

 8        A.   84.

 9        Q.   You said that he was 88 years old.  84 is what is written in the

10     statement, sir, which is the correct one?

11        A.   He was 88 years old on the night when he was killed.

12        Q.   Thank you.  Now, briefly, the second statement, this is from

13     May 2008, and it's the 65 ter number 05137.

14             MS. D'ASCOLI:  First of all, there's just a material error,

15     Your Honours, this is at page 2, paragraph 3.  The date of the end of the

16     paragraph should be the 31st of March, 1999 clearly, not 2008.  This is

17     just a material error.

18        Q.   Then page 3, paragraph 12, Mr. Krasniqi, this paragraph says that

19     you believe Ali knew the police officer because he was released unlike

20     all others.

21             Now, Mr. Krasniqi, you indicated that this sentence "he was

22     released unlike all others" refers to the fact that you heard the Serbian

23     police officer telling Ali to go away -- just a second, let me finish.

24     But you did not know and you did not pay attention to whether he actually

25     left or not; is that correct?

Page 6027

 1        A.   I did not see him because we had to look down and that's the

 2     truth.

 3        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  The very last point at page 3, paragraph --

 4        A.   [No interpretation]

 5        Q.   Thank you, sir.  At page 3, paragraph 24, you said that you do

 6     not remember exactly how the weapon AK-47 looks like; is that correct?

 7     Is that correct, sir?

 8        A.   That's correct, yes.

 9        Q.   Thank you.  Mr. Krasniqi, with these corrections that we now made

10     to your statement, are you satisfied that the information in these

11     statements is true and accurate to the best of your knowledge and belief?

12        A.   To the best of my knowledge and understanding, yes, because I saw

13     things with my own eyes.  I was there for three hours when all those

14     things happened.

15        Q.   Thank you, sir.

16             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, now I'd like to tender into evidence

17     both the witness statements, please.  And the statement of the year 2000

18     is the 65 ter number 05136.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  That will be received.

20             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned P00908, Your Honours.

21             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.  And the statement from 2008 is

22     65 ter number 05137.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  And that will be assigned P00909, Your Honours.

25             MS D'ASCOLI:  I can now provide a summary of this witness

Page 6028

 1     evidence.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you.

 3             MS. D'ASCOLI:  The witness is from the village of Pusto Selo in

 4     the Orahovac municipality where he has lived for most of his live.  He

 5     testifies about the attack by Serb forces on Pusto Selo on the

 6     31st of March, 1999.

 7             On 26 March 1999 many people fled to the witness village from

 8     different places.  The fleeing people stayed with the villagers of Pusto

 9     Selo in their houses.  Some stayed also in the local school and the

10     witness had about twenty people from Petkovic and Mirusa staying with

11     him.  The fleeing people told the witness that they were forced by Serb

12     forces to leave their houses and to go to Pusto Selo.

13             On the 31st of March, 1999, Serb forces entered Pusto Selo.  The

14     witness and other people fled only to find themselves surrounded by Serb

15     tanks.  The Serb forces approached the fleeing group and ordered them to

16     separate men from women and children.  Women and children were told then

17     to give away their valuables and go to Albania.  The men were gathered

18     together by Serb forces and then brought close to a brook.  There those

19     Serb forces opened fire on those men and executed them.  The witness was

20     amongst those men, and he managed to survive by falling into the brook.

21     Some bodies fell on him.

22             The witness describes the circumstances surrounding the massacre.

23     Several of his male relatives died in that massacre.  The witness helped

24     with the burial of bodies on the first days of April 1999.  He states

25     that they buried in Pusto Selo 106 bodies of men aged between 16 and 90.

Page 6029

 1             And this is the end of the in-court summary, Your Honours.

 2             JUDGE PARKER:  Thank you very much.

 3             MS. D'ASCOLI:

 4        Q.   Mr. Krasniqi, I now have some questions for you related to these

 5     events in Pusto Selo in the end of March 1999.  Mr. Krasniqi, in your

 6     statement of 2000 at pages 3 to 5 when you describe in detail the

 7     circumstances in which the massacre of the 31st of March occurred, you

 8     always refer to or use the expression "the Serbs."  Mr. Krasniqi, can you

 9     please tell us to whom you refer by saying "the Serbs"?

10        A.   I mean the police.

11        Q.   And who were the perpetrators of the massacre you describe?

12        A.   The massacre was committed -- those ones who were in uniform.

13     They were all policemen.  There were about 40 of them or more.  They were

14     20, 22 years old, and even older.

15        Q.   Okay.  Thank you.  And, Mr. Krasniqi, will you be able to

16     identify on photographs the uniforms of the Serb forces that you saw in

17     Pusto Selo on the 31st of March, 1999?

18        A.   Yes, of course.

19        Q.   Okay.

20             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness be asked to sit closer to the

21     microphones.  We can hardly hear him.

22             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Mr. Krasniqi, would you mind sitting a little bit

23     closer to the microphones, please.  Thank you.  That's better.

24        Q.   I'm going to show you some photographs, Mr. Krasniqi.  Can I

25     please have on the screen the Exhibit number P831?

Page 6030

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, of course.

 2             MS. D'ASCOLI:

 3        Q.   Mr. Krasniqi, are you able to see the pictures on the video?

 4        A.   [No interpretation]

 5        Q.   Okay.  That's good.  Is any --

 6        A.   Yes, I can.  This one here --

 7        Q.   You recognise it already.  Just a second.

 8             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Maybe could the usher provide him with a pen.

 9     Thank you.

10        Q.   Could you mark --

11        A.   Yes, please.  I don't know how to write though.

12             MS. D'ASCOLI:

13        Q.   Just a mark, just whatever.  But can you please --

14        A.   I'm illiterate.

15        Q.   -- can you please answer a question?  Just before that, can you

16     answer a question?  Is any of these colours, or any of these patterns, is

17     any of these similar to the colours or the uniforms that you saw in

18     Pusto Selo on the 31st of March?

19        A.   This one, yes, but the ones that were at the school, I did not

20     see them.  I saw the ones that were close to us, but not the ones that

21     were at the school.

22        Q.   No, no, of course.  Let's just talk about what you saw and the

23     forces that you saw at any point during the day and before the massacre.

24             So you said that some -- like, one of -- or some of these

25     pictures are similar to uniforms that you saw.  Could you mark with any

Page 6031

 1     sign the picture that you think -- or the pictures that you think are

 2     similar to what -- to the uniforms that you saw in Pusto Selo at the end

 3     of March 1999?

 4        A.   Here?  Can I mark here?

 5        Q.   Yes, please.  Perfect.  That's okay.

 6             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Your Honours, can I please tender this exhibit

 7     into evidence as marked by the witness.

 8             JUDGE PARKER:  It will be received.

 9             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Thank you.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be assigned P00910, Your Honours.

11             MS. D'ASCOLI:  And can I please call the exhibit number -- the 65

12     ter number 02586.  Can we enlarge the picture, please.

13        Q.   Mr. Krasniqi, again, if you can please look at these men in

14     uniforms, and can you tell me if any of these men are wearing the same

15     uniforms that you saw when -- just before the massacre or anyway when you

16     were there in Pusto Selo on the 31st of March, 1999, and you -- sorry, if

17     you can indicate whether you recognised any of these uniforms as the same

18     one that you saw on that day of the massacre?

19        A.   I cannot say anything about these.  I don't recognise these.

20        Q.   You don't recognise the colours and the uniforms of these men?

21             JUDGE PARKER:  Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.

22             MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The witness has answered.

23             JUDGE PARKER:  No, he hasn't, Mr. Djurdjic.  His answer was

24     unclear, and it's being corrected to clarify it.

25             Carry on please, Ms. D'Ascoli.

Page 6032

 1             MS. D'ASCOLI:

 2        Q.   Mr. Krasniqi, I'm not talking about these gentlemen here in the

 3     pictures.  I'm just asking you whether you are able to recognise the

 4     colours and the type of uniforms that they are wearing.  Just the

 5     uniforms that they have and whether any of these uniforms reminds you of

 6     the ones of the perpetrators of the massacre in Pusto Selo on the

 7     31st of March?  Which is your answer, Mr. Krasniqi?

 8        A.   I'm not sure about these.  I cannot tell them apart.  I think the

 9     other ones were lighter.

10        Q.   What do you mean by "the other ones were lighter"?

11        A.   I don't understand.  I am sorry.

12        Q.   Okay.  No problem.  I will try to be simpler.  Can you see well

13     the pictures on the screen?

14        A.   Yes, I can.

15        Q.   Can you distinguish these four men in uniforms?

16        A.   I do.

17        Q.   And I'm not concerned about, you know, their faces, but only

18     about what they are wearing.  Okay?

19        A.   The clothes they are wearing.

20        Q.   Exactly.  I'm just concerned about that, exactly.  Now, if you

21     can think about the uniforms or the Serb forces that you saw doing the

22     massacre, the perpetrators of the massacre in Pusto Selo; so if you can

23     think about those, what you remember, and if you can tell me whether what

24     they were wearing matches what is in the picture, any of these four men.

25        A.   Well, I don't understand.  I can see what they are wearing, but I

Page 6033

 1     don't know what you mean by distinguishing them.  And if you want me to

 2     show what kind of clothes they are wearing, I can tell you.  But

 3     otherwise I don't understand.

 4        Q.   I am sorry, I was just meaning whether what you see here in the

 5     picture looks like what you saw in Pusto Selo on those men, on the Serb

 6     forces, who were the perpetrators of the massacre, that's what I mean.

 7     If you can help us with that, otherwise we move forward, there's no

 8     problem.

 9        A.   They are not the same.  They are not the same.

10        Q.   Okay.  Maybe I can show you a simpler picture.

11             JUDGE PARKER:  I think we've run out of time, Ms. D'Ascoli.

12             MS. D'ASCOLI:  Yeah, that's right.  Okay.

13             JUDGE PARKER:  Mr. Krasniqi, we have to stop now because of the

14     time, and we continue -- we continue on Monday.  An officer of the court

15     will assist you over the break and will arrange for you to be back with

16     us on Monday when we will continue with your evidence and hear what you

17     need to say.

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Okay.

19             JUDGE PARKER:  Sorry about the interruption, but we have limited

20     hours that we can use this courtroom.  So we must now adjourn, and we

21     continue on Monday.

22                           [The witness stands down]

23                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.46 p.m.,

24                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 15th of

25                           June, 2009, at 12.00 p.m.