Page 7113
1 Thursday, 9 July 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.
5 MR. STAMP: Good morning, Your Honours, I was wondering if while
6 we wait I could just announce in respect to the application before the
7 Court for videolink for Shyhrete Dula. The Prosecution has investigators
8 now in Pristina preparing for the upcoming videolink and they have spoken
9 to her and encouraged her. And she has indicated that notwithstanding
10 her issues she is now ready and willing to come here. So in those
11 circumstances we withdraw that application.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you for that, Mr. Stamp.
13 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honours.
14 JUDGE PARKER: You don't know how close you were in time.
15 [The witness takes the stand]
16 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. I would remind you the affirmation
17 you made to tell the truth still applies.
18 Mr. Djurdjic is continuing.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
20 JUDGE PARKER: For a moment, Mr. Djurdjic, I thought you had
21 completed your cross-examination.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Well, that's what it appeared to
23 be, but that's not quite what it is. Now the mike is working.
24 WITNESS: VELIBOR VELJKOVIC [Resumed]
25 [Witness answered through interpreter]
Page 7114
1 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic: [Continued]
2 Q. Good morning.
3 A. Good morning. My microphones are on now.
4 Q. Now, it's all right. Both your and my microphone are on.
5 A. Well, yes, only one of my microphones is on.
6 Q. I don't know if this will interfere with interpretation, but
7 let's try it. Good morning, Mr. Veljkovic.
8 A. Good morning.
9 Q. So let me just remind you to speak slowly so that everything we
10 say is properly interpreted and enters into transcript.
11 Mr. Veljkovic, we finished yesterday with 1999 [as interpreted].
12 Now I would like to ask you about 1999. Do you remember in January 1999
13 that there was an attack on a patrol at Dulje.
14 A. Yes, this was an attack not in Dulje itself, but in a place
15 called Birac about 1 kilometre from Dulje in the direction of Prizren. A
16 patrol set off to inspect certain areas and they described this happened
17 on the main communication where Albanian terrorists carried out an armed
18 attack on our police patrol on which occasion Milos Stevanovic, a
19 colleague, was killed. Some were wounded lightly, some more gravely.
20 These were men who were not only from Suva Reka but also from other
21 interior Secretariats.
22 Q. Thank you.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please get document
24 D04-2254. I apologise, 004-2254.
25 Q. Sir, Mr. Veljkovic, this is the cover page of a criminal report
Page 7115
1 submitted to the Prosecutor's Office in Prizren, Suva Reka OKP [as
2 interpreted].
3 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please pull up
4 page 2 of this document.
5 Q. This is a criminal report of the Suva Reka OUP in respect of the
6 incident that we were discussing; am I correct?
7 A. Yes, that is what it says there. The date is the
8 8th of January, 1999, and then there is also a statement of facts.
9 Q. Thank you.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please show page 5 of
11 this document.
12 Q. We can see here a map with the place where the attack was carried
13 out marked; is that correct?
14 A. Yes.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we now please see page 6 of
16 this document.
17 Q. This is an Official Note on a crime scene investigation in
18 respect of this incident.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please mark this document
20 for identification pending a translation.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
22 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00308 marked
23 for identification.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
25 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, do you recall that on the eve of the air-strikes
Page 7116
1 there was an attack in Suva Reka itself, an attack or an assault on
2 Bogdan Lazic who was a salesperson in a small newspaper stand?
3 A. Yes, I know. This happened a day or two before the air-strike,
4 or thereabouts. Around 11.00 or 12:00. He was killed at his work-place.
5 I think that he -- I think he was a salesperson in a rubber tire store.
6 I heard -- I had heard of this event. And this shop, this store where he
7 worked was on the main street, the Cara Dusana Street and it was about
8 50 to 100 metres from the spot where Milorad Vicevic [phoen] was killed
9 in 1998.
10 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, could you tell us now, on the
11 26th of March, and we've established after so many years that that's when
12 it happened, as far as you can recall, how many policemen were there in
13 Suva Reka on that day?
14 A. Do you mean the total number?
15 Q. No, I don't mean the total number. I mean how many persons were
16 present in Suva Reka?
17 A. Well, between 10 to 15 active force policemen. And I can't
18 really be sure about the reserve force.
19 Q. Thank you. Let me help you a bit. Do you recall that there were
20 two individuals at the duty service, one of them was the shift leader and
21 the other one was the operator?
22 A. Yes, he was the assistant there.
23 Q. And do you recall that the shift leader was Gogic and that his
24 assistant was Goran Jokic?
25 A. That's correct.
Page 7117
1 Q. Thank you. Yesterday we talked about patrols. And do you
2 remember that there was an automobile patrol with Radovan Tanovic,
3 Sladjan Cukaric, Miki Petkovic, and a witness who is a protected witness
4 here, they were in this vehicle?
5 A. Yes, I know that they went on patrol.
6 Q. Thank you. Now, is it correct that Cukaric and Tanovic were
7 active duty police officers, whereas the other two were reservists,
8 reserve policemen?
9 A. Yes, it is correct.
10 Q. Thank you. Is it true that Novkovic, Ivica was there too and
11 that he too was a reserve policemen?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that the driver in this automobile
14 patrol was Ramiz Papic, one of the patrols?
15 A. That's correct.
16 Q. Is it correct that the crime technician, Todor Jovanovic, was
17 also a member of the OUP in Suva Reka at the outset -- in the beginning
18 of the war?
19 A. Yes, he was a crime technician and he worked there since 1995.
20 He was there when I arrived. I don't know how much earlier he had
21 started working there.
22 Q. Thank you. We also said that there were the chief of the OUP,
23 Vitosevic; Commander Repanovic; and assistant Jovanovic?
24 A. Are you referring to the 26th? Yes, in that case, yes.
25 Q. Well, these were all the individuals who were there on that day;
Page 7118
1 right? Now, do you remember that there was also, at the church bell
2 tower, there was also a police officer?
3 A. I know there was a command post -- an observation --
4 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter correction.
5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- an observation post there. When
6 I was questioned in Belgrade
7 how the men were assigned to these observation posts. I don't know if he
8 was there specifically or in some other place.
9 Q. Thank you. So theses were all -- this was all the personnel who
10 was there on the 26th in Suva Reka, can you recall if there was anyone
11 else?
12 A. I cannot.
13 Q. Thank you. Let me now ask you this: I'm not quite clear on what
14 you told us about where you slept and where your office was, does this
15 mean that both your sleeping quarters and your office were on the same
16 premises, or were your sleeping quarters in the same area where the
17 offices were?
18 A. The sleeping quarters were at the other end of the hall in the
19 same building. So let's say here in this area there are the sleeping
20 quarters or the bedrooms and at the other end you have offices. This was
21 5 to 6 metres away, one from the other, that's it.
22 Q. Thank you. So you actually worked in this office there and once
23 you have completed your work, you would take this to your commander;
24 correct?
25 A. Well, in fact, he would give me the daily mail and then I would
Page 7119
1 have to distribute the mail. And if there was a document that I needed
2 to take to superior officers, I would do that. Or in the event that
3 there was an extraordinary event, I would have to inform him of that and
4 that's about it.
5 If there was nothing, then I would just sit there. There would
6 be no work and I would just turn on the radio and listen to the radio.
7 Q. Thank you. Now tell us, how many police officers were there in
8 this building where you were in addition to yourself?
9 A. Do you mean in the sleeping quarters?
10 Q. Well, I mean on the premises on that day on the 26th?
11 A. Well, I cannot recall exactly, although not many people slept
12 there. Some were on positions, deployed at positions. Some were in the
13 hotel. So I can't really tell you the exact number.
14 Q. Thank you. Now, do you remember on the eve of the air-strikes
15 any measures being taken for moving the Suva Reka OUP out of those
16 premises?
17 A. Well, I think we moved about two or three days after -- following
18 the 26th of March. I happen to be in the duty office and I know that the
19 colleague Jovanovic was there; he was collecting some documents. And we
20 were supposes -- he said we are supposed to move out of here tomorrow.
21 And this actually happened. And I don't know exactly what time it was
22 when we moved out.
23 Q. Thank you. But in order to move this police station, you had to
24 undertake certain preparations. Do you recall that a few days before the
25 war and the first two days of the war, assistant Jovanovic actually
Page 7120
1 collected documents and put them on a truck that was there that was
2 supposed to move them out?
3 A. I can't recall that.
4 Q. All right. I would like to know this: Did every patrol that
5 went on a mission always have protective gear, a rifle and side-arms?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Thank you. Tell me, please, what type of uniforms did you have
8 in 1998 and 1999? And I'm referring to the police officers of Suva Reka.
9 A. We had dark blue uniforms. The members who were not members of
10 the PJP. As for the PJP itself, they had light green uniforms. So you
11 could tell us apart. But the PJP only wore those uniforms when they went
12 on a mission, otherwise they did not wear them.
13 Q. Thank you. Are you talking about drab olive green camouflage
14 uniforms?
15 A. Well, they had green and grey/blue uniforms, so I think it's
16 about those three types of uniforms.
17 Q. I'm referring to the police officers who were regular police at
18 Suva
19 A. Well, in that case, I misunderstood you. They wore the dark blue
20 uniform, the same uniform that I wore.
21 Q. Was this a camouflage uniform?
22 A. Yes, dark blue camouflage uniform.
23 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, on the 26th in the morning, were you
24 present when Commander Repanovic issued tasks according to the schedule
25 of the work that had to be done?
Page 7121
1 A. No. I would take the duty roster on the previous day and the
2 list of patrols. He would sign this document, and I would leave it at
3 the duty service. When -- during the working hours, the regular working
4 hours, the shift leader who was on duty would issue these orders and the
5 superior officers would have to sign it.
6 Of course, the superior officer also had the authority to issue
7 oral assignments. Whether he did or didn't on any particular day, I
8 wouldn't know anything about that. Whether he issued an oral order which
9 did not then -- which was not then written down in a -- on a duty roster.
10 Q. Thank you. Do you remember when it was that you left the -- your
11 office and went to the OUP building on the 26th?
12 A. I really can't say for sure. I know that until 7.00 p.m., when
13 this critical event happened, when the man was murdered at the police
14 station and the Berisha family, I cannot claim with certainty that I
15 actually went to see Commander Repanovic or that I went to the duty
16 office. I don't know that I left my office, and I did not hear anything
17 about any preparations for a killing or things to that effect.
18 Q. Thank you. Do you remember whether in the meantime --
19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter correction.
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] -- whether you learned in the
21 course of that morning that the motorised patrol had a duty, they were
22 tasked with taking food and water to the -- to the staff personnel that
23 was deployed around Suva Reka on that particular morning.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I know that this was their
25 task every morning, not only that particular morning. So I wouldn't have
Page 7122
1 anything else to add to that.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please now pull up
5 document -- Exhibit P269.
6 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, do you recognise this photograph?
7 A. I do not recognise it. If this is Suva Reka, I cannot really see
8 our station here, the church. If this building in the centre of the
9 photograph is Metohija Vino winery?
10 Q. Can you see the bus terminal?
11 A. Yes, I can see it now. Here at the end is the -- our police
12 station and then the bus terminal. Yes, this is Suva Reka.
13 Q. Well, the reason I'm asking is because you said that you could
14 see the police station on that photograph which was D13, but I think this
15 photograph is better than the one we saw yesterday?
16 A. No, actually, I think the one we saw yesterday was better, but
17 now I can find my way. I can see that this is what it is.
18 Q. All right. Let me ask you then, when you were withdrawing --
19 when you withdrew from Suva Reka, when you left Suva Reka, was the church
20 and bell tower still standing?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Can you pin-point it; can you see it here in this photo?
23 A. No.
24 Q. Can we then conclude that this photo was taken after June 1999?
25 Mr. Veljkovic, did you hear me?
Page 7123
1 A. Well, I thought you were addressing the Trial Chamber.
2 Q. No, the questions are put to you. You are the witness.
3 A. All right. Well, we can conclude that with certainty because I
4 believe that this was around here in this area.
5 Q. You mean where the rocks are?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Now, tell me, when we look at the left-hand side of this photo,
8 we can see some houses there. Can you see the OUP building?
9 A. I can see the OUP building at the end here.
10 Q. Which one is it? Could you please mark it with an X.
11 A. Yes, I will. I'll do that. Here. I've put an X on the roof.
12 Q. Very well. So the building marked with X is the OUP building.
13 Now, tell us, please, can you see the building where your sleeping
14 quarters were?
15 A. Yes, you can see it here.
16 Q. Would you please put the number 1 on that building?
17 A. Well, here it is. I'll put number 1 on the roof.
18 Q. Thank you. Would you now please mark with a number 3 the place
19 where you were when you went out onto the street. Now, is this the
20 main street, the Prizren-Pristina Road, so-called Cara Dusana Street?
21 A. Yes. So you want me to mark the spot from which I observed
22 people fleeing? Is that what you want me to do?
23 Q. That's correct.
24 A. Number 3?
25 Q. Number 2.
Page 7124
1 A. [Marks]
2 Q. So you were standing there. Now, could you, please, just put
3 number 3 to mark the road that is Restanski Put so that we know which is
4 which.
5 A. [Marks]
6 Q. Thank you. And now could you please mark the main road with a
7 dash and an arrow to show the direction Pristina-Prizren, the way the
8 road runs.
9 A. You want me to put an arrow and what number?
10 Q. Number 4.
11 A. [Marks]
12 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, tell us, please, where was the bell tower before
13 it was destroyed?
14 A. The bell tower was next to this building here. You see this tree
15 and --
16 Q. Would you please put a dot, a number 5, to mark that spot.
17 A. Well, yes, I'll do it. It was about here in this area, roughly
18 speaking. I think it's probably a bit to the right.
19 Q. Thank you. Now, I would like to ask you this: I can see a
20 portion of Restanski Put -- or rather, let's do it this way: Tell me,
21 did you see your colleagues, the policemen, who had left before you in
22 the direction of the Berisha houses? Did you see them at all?
23 A. Well, I cannot really say with certainty that I did see when they
24 left. However, when I entered the duty service office and from this
25 office --
Page 7125
1 Q. That was not actually my question. Can you -- let's try this
2 way. Can you mark the Berisha house with a number 6.
3 A. [Marks]
4 Q. Thank you. You told us that you did not know at the time that
5 that was their last name, but do you know whether there were any other
6 houses belonging to the Berisha family or was this the only one?
7 A. I only know about this one.
8 Q. Thank you. Please listen carefully and answer my next question.
9 When you came out of the police station and after the group of your
10 work-mates left some minutes before you, when you arrived in the place
11 number 2, did you see them as you were standing there? Did you see your
12 colleagues, policemen?
13 A. No, I did not.
14 Q. Can you tell me what did you see in that place?
15 A. At place number 2 I heard automatic rifle shots and I saw people
16 running from the courtyard towards the bus station and the shopping
17 centre. As I said already, some were killed there and the rest ran off
18 trying to find shelter in one of the shops on the bus station compound.
19 Q. Can you mark the courtyard you saw them run out of; if I
20 understood you well.
21 A. I'll mark it.
22 Q. Mark it nicely, please. Can you mark the spot at which you saw
23 the people as they were running?
24 A. I'll put a short line.
25 Q. Can you also put an arrow to show the direction in which they
Page 7126
1 ran?
2 A. Here it is. They were running towards the bus station.
3 Q. Could you place a number 7 next to the arrow.
4 A. [Marks]
5 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, you say you did not see the policemen but you
6 heard the gun-shots. Could you see in which direction they were
7 shooting?
8 A. I could not.
9 Q. Thank you. When you went outside and reached the place number 2,
10 did you see some of the bodies on Restanski Put?
11 A. I cannot say anything with any certainty. This was within a span
12 of a few seconds. I can't tell you exactly whether by the time I arrived
13 at the place number 2 there had already been dead people there; but in a
14 matter of a few seconds perhaps, following that, I saw them fall dead.
15 Q. That's what I'm asking you. Had they been lying on the ground
16 dead by the time you arrived, or did you see them fall?
17 A. What I can tell you with certainty is that within the first few
18 seconds of my arrival, I heard the shots and saw them fall.
19 Q. Thank you. Restanski Put Street, as we refer to it in jargon, is
20 it the -- is it Miladin Popovic Street?
21 A. No, I think Miladin Popovic Street is the first intersection with
22 Restanski Put to the left. It's a rather short street of about
23 100 metres. It is next to the Metohija Vino company.
24 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, we see a good stretch of Restanski Put here. As
25 you moved along that street, did you go further up the street to the part
Page 7127
1 which we don't see in this photograph?
2 A. I think I did, but I'm not certain. I don't know exactly where
3 we made the U-turn and went back to the police station.
4 Q. Thank you. When you see those people fleeing, as you saw them,
5 where were they running to?
6 A. They crossed Restanski Put running towards the bus station
7 compound.
8 Q. Can you indicate where they crossed the street?
9 A. I put the arrow number 7 there, and then in the direction of the
10 building with the green roof. I think they found a passage in between
11 because there was a flight of stairs there, and they passed by the news
12 stand or some kiosks for fast food that were there. They passed next to
13 them. But this is all within the bus station compound or yard. And then
14 they continued onwards towards the shopping centre. I no longer saw them
15 at that point in time, but I presume that they wanted to shelter in one
16 of the shops.
17 Q. Where did you lose sight of them?
18 A. I can't say precisely that I saw them -- that I did not see them
19 anymore, but I can tell you approximately. Do you want me to mark it?
20 Q. Yes.
21 A. Here, where the line is.
22 Q. Could you place a number 8 there.
23 A. [Marks]
24 Q. Once they reached that point, you no longer knew where they were
25 going, it was only your assumption?
Page 7128
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I'm asking you about that point in time.
3 A. Yes, that was my conclusion.
4 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, were there any policemen in the part around the
5 Metohija Vino company and -- where those people were running? Did you
6 see any policemen there?
7 A. I know that there was a position, a police position at the
8 Metohija Vino company, but I don't know whether they were at the location
9 number 8.
10 Q. Did you see them there?
11 A. I did not.
12 Q. As you were standing in the place number 2, did you see any
13 policemen anywhere?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, what followed? You saw them fleeing, you heard
16 the shots without seeing a single policemen; what did you do next?
17 A. I also cannot tell you anything with certainty, but I think I
18 returned either to the entrance of the police station or I went to the
19 duty officers' room.
20 Q. In this area, save for the civilians, did you see a single
21 VJ soldier there?
22 A. No.
23 Q. Did you see a single tank, a self-propelled vehicle, or any
24 military equipment?
25 A. No.
Page 7129
1 Q. Thank you. Did you see on that day, the 26th, any members of any
2 other unit save for the police unit in Suva Reka?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Did you see any trucks parked in front of the police station, two
5 trucks used to transport the policemen?
6 A. I did not.
7 Q. Thank you. When you set out, although you said you don't know
8 where you went to, you did mention the police station, who did you find
9 in the OUP building in Suva Reka?
10 A. I cannot say anything with any certainty. I know that the
11 officers were there, our superiors, that is to say, the commander, his
12 assistant, and the chief. As for the policemen, I was there with the two
13 reservists because later on we started loading the bodies. I can't tell
14 you who the shift leader was in the duty office. There must have been
15 someone, but I no longer remember who was there.
16 Q. Was the assistant supposed to be in the duty office on
17 communication lines?
18 A. Do you mean the assistant to the commander?
19 Q. No, the assistant shift leader.
20 A. There must have been someone there, but I no longer remember who
21 was the shift leader or his assistant.
22 Q. Do you remember or did you hear anyone get in touch over the
23 radio saying that a patrol came under attack and that they needed
24 assistance?
25 A. I did not hear that; therefore, I cannot say with any certainty
Page 7130
1 whether there was an attack or not.
2 Q. Thank you. Did you hear the commander issue a task to check
3 certain locations and find locators or markers used to guide NATO planes?
4 A. I did not hear that.
5 Q. Thank you. Save for your part of work, did you participate in
6 any regular police tasks in the police station in Suva Reka?
7 A. No.
8 Q. Am I right in saying that on that day you were not a duty
9 officer?
10 A. You are right.
11 Q. Let's clarify one thing which remains unclear to me. You reached
12 a certain point along Restanski Put and made a U-turn; is that correct?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Am I right in saying that following the truck, you did not enter
15 the police station, but rather you turned towards the crafts and trades
16 centre?
17 A. You are quite right. I turned towards that building.
18 Q. Since we see part of the streets here, did you follow the streets
19 or did you use a shortcut since you were on foot?
20 A. I followed the truck on foot together with the two reservists.
21 Q. Did you come out on to Cara Dusana Street and turn right?
22 A. First to the left; and then as we were coming back, to the right.
23 We went this way, picked up those, and then back, and then right.
24 Q. So we are already at the point in time as you were going back.
25 From the street you turned ...
Page 7131
1 A. Right.
2 Q. Following the truck, how did you reach the small business centre
3 or trades and crafts centre?
4 A. On foot. Yesterday I marked the building where the Berisha
5 family members were killed. It is next to the gas station where I'm
6 pointing more or less. It is perhaps 5 or 6 metres away from Cara Dusana
7 Street. I think it is one of the buildings of the small businesses
8 centre.
9 Q. So you followed the truck all along reaching the building that
10 you, yesterday, marked?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Could you mark it again. Can you put a number 9 there.
13 A. I think this is it.
14 Q. Thank you. The building across the street, across the number 9
15 and to the left, what building is that?
16 A. It was the municipal hall where the Territorial Defence had its
17 offices. I think that's the yellow building, the first one. Next to it
18 was the municipal misdemeanours office or court, and next to it was the
19 post office.
20 Q. Could you mark the municipal hall.
21 A. Out of the two buildings, I'm not certain which one it is. I'm
22 not certain. I think it's the one in the middle.
23 Q. Was there a kiosk nearby?
24 A. I know there was one just in front of the building number 9.
25 Perhaps 2 metres from the street on the pavement.
Page 7132
1 Q. Thank you. Did you see a shop nearby that sold liquor, or a bar?
2 A. Across from number 9, in this group of buildings, there was a set
3 of shops held by Albanians. There were several owners. They were
4 taxpayers individually. And the first building was a shop. The second
5 building was another shop. And there was another with a catering
6 establishment.
7 Q. Thank you. Could the truck enter the part where the shops were
8 that you just described?
9 A. No. The truck could only move along the main street and the
10 street further down. Although, when the shops received supplies, the
11 trucks would park there to unload the goods.
12 Q. When you reached the shop, who was there of your colleagues?
13 A. You mean --
14 Q. Number 9.
15 A. I can tell you with certainty that the reservist
16 Miroslav Petkovic was there, as well as the professional policemen
17 Radovan Tanovic and Sladjan Cukaric. After that, the people from the
18 municipal utility company came and the undertakers, they were, for the
19 most part, between 13 and 15 years of age. I don't know for sure whether
20 Boban, the doctor, was already there or whether he arrived later. In any
21 case, I know for sure that he wore a military Territorial Defence uniform
22 that was green and he had an automatic rifle. I can say that with
23 certainty.
24 As for the other colleagues who were there, I cannot tell you
25 anything more.
Page 7133
1 Q. While on the topic of the Territorial Defence it was already the
2 time when the war had begun; am I right?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. And the TO members were issued with their own weapons?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Dr. Boban was employed at the health clinic in Suva Reka?
7 A. Yes, he was the manager of the clinic. The general opinion was
8 that he was a good professional in what he did.
9 Q. Was a Soko [phoen] officer from the Suva Reka police station
10 Jovan -- Todor Jovanovic there?
11 A. I'm not sure.
12 Q. As you were moving along the street, did you see anyone at the
13 gas station?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Thank you. You say that you followed the truck?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Who was in the truck?
18 A. As I said yesterday, the driver was there, but there's no way for
19 me to recognise him any longer. I don't know whether he was from
20 Suva
21 Q. Thank you. Can you exclude the possibility that that truck
22 belonged to the public utilities company in Suva Reka?
23 A. I cannot tell you anything.
24 Q. Thank you. You followed the truck therefore?
25 A. Yes.
Page 7134
1 Q. Where did the truck stop and who stopped it?
2 A. I cannot make out what you are asking me, but you are probably
3 asking me about the point where it stopped to have the bodies loaded. It
4 stopped at the place number 9 because there was a space there for it to
5 stop between the Metohija Vino company and the small businesses centre.
6 This was a rather large area. It stopped so that the cabin of the truck
7 was facing the municipal hall, and the trailer was already opened. It
8 was parked in such a way that it could turn either left or right.
9 Q. Why did you follow the truck on foot along Cara Dusana Street?
10 A. Because none of the work-mates who were with me wanted to get in
11 the truck. Therefore, I didn't either.
12 Q. That's clear. And you wouldn't all fit in anyhow. But once you
13 reach the intersection, why didn't you go to the police station? Why did
14 you continue following it?
15 A. I continued following it because as we were loading the bodies, I
16 heard some shots from the direction of the municipal building. I
17 supposed that the Berisha family members hid in a shop and that our men
18 found them easily, and they simply started killing them. That is why I
19 went there because I knew that the corpses should not be left just like
20 that. This was a great deal of bodies, and there would have been an
21 outbreak if we had left them. If we had left them, there would be many
22 more accused and people prosecuted than there already were.
23 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, could you please just tell us the facts that you
24 knew on the 26th, on that very day, and not the things that you learned
25 later on.
Page 7135
1 So my question is where were you when you heard, you said you
2 heard a blast of an explosion, where were you when that happened?
3 A. I was on Restanski Road but where exactly, I can't pin-point the
4 spot.
5 Q. I know that was what you said yesterday, that you couldn't
6 remember, but from that place where you were, you could not see the small
7 businesses centre, could you?
8 A. You could see the small business centre from that place.
9 Q. Could you see what was going on inside the small business centre
10 or shopping centre?
11 A. Well, I couldn't see exactly the place where the killing was
12 taking place. I heard the shots, but I did not see it.
13 Q. When did you learn for the first time that these people were
14 hiding somewhere?
15 A. When I saw them fleeing, I assumed, that was what occurred to me
16 at that moment, that they were returning in order to hide somewhere. So
17 this was just my assumption. I couldn't go and see where exactly they
18 were hiding.
19 Q. I totally agree with you, but that's why I'm asking you. I need
20 to know what you knew at that time because, you see, you marked this
21 number 9 and in fact, they could have gone to the municipal building or
22 the post office building, or they could go, this is an open area, so they
23 could go further. And as far as I know, there was another Berisha
24 settlement behind those buildings?
25 A. Well, I cannot say that with certainty.
Page 7136
1 Q. All right then. What about the first part of my question?
2 A. Well, I can't really add anything.
3 Q. When you heard the blast, the explosion, you didn't know where
4 they were, you didn't know the location?
5 A. I didn't.
6 Q. And from the spot where you were, you could not see these
7 buildings marked with number 9; right?
8 A. No, I could not see it, but I could hear the blasts and I knew
9 that it must be approximately in the area of this shopping centre or the
10 small business centre.
11 Q. All right. But how then did you know that you should go to this
12 building marked with number 9?
13 A. Well, when I returned from Restanski Road, at the spot where I
14 marked with number 4, I saw that -- where the petrol station was on the
15 road or on the sidewalk, I saw a police officer there, or actually, I saw
16 some men. I'm not sure exactly who they were. And I assumed that some
17 people must have been killed in one of those small businesses. And then
18 when I came up, when I came closer, I saw exactly the spot where these
19 people had been killed.
20 Q. Who was with you when you reached the building marked with
21 number 9?
22 A. I got there with two reserve officers and the truck driver.
23 Q. So they were with you all along?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. And about Novkovic, you said that he wasn't doing anything, he
Page 7137
1 was just going, walking behind you?
2 A. Exactly. He was not loading the bodies. It would be sinful if I
3 were to say that he was shooting at these men, he wasn't. He wasn't
4 doing anything. He just felt sick. He could not bring himself to
5 loading these bodies. He just didn't want to do it.
6 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, tell me, as you walked along
7 Restanski Put, did you make any detours?
8 A. No.
9 Q. Can I conclude then that you did not go around the building
10 marked number 6, along that alley and behind the building?
11 A. No, I didn't.
12 Q. You told us that before you began loading the bodies onto the
13 truck you went to get a rifle?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Where was your rifle?
16 A. My automatic rifle was in the administration office.
17 Q. You also had a pistol; right?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Well, tell me then, what did you need a rifle for if you were
20 going to load those bodies?
21 A. Well, let me put it this way, this Restanski Put Road was very
22 risky and dangerous. There were terrorists and they could come out at
23 any moment and shoot at us. So I needed it for self-defence, that's the
24 only reason. Because it was wartime and that's how it was. Although,
25 there were a lot of people who got killed on Restanski Put, there were
Page 7138
1 land-mines there sometimes, people would run onto them, and then there
2 were other incidents. Zoran Randelovic or Randenovic, he was the chief
3 of the Aleksinac OUP, he was killed there. I think the driver who was
4 driving him was also killed there. AND
5 the rifle with me.
6 Q. Thank you. Did you have a cartridge belt on your rifle?
7 A. No, I had the rifle issued, but I did not have a cartridge belt.
8 Although, in such situations you wouldn't even take it with you, you
9 would take it off.
10 Q. Thank you. Now, yesterday you told us that at one point you
11 entered this pizzeria and that one person, I think a woman, moved and
12 this startled you and you fled?
13 A. Yes, this was woman who was lying next to the door. And when I
14 was questioned the first time, there were questions to the effect, and
15 the first -- one of the questions was what did the woman who was wounded
16 and sitting by the door, what did she say to you. And then I told them,
17 as I mentioned it yesterday, I said that I had left the rifle by the door
18 and -- because it was interfering with my loading of the bodies. And
19 then when I left -- when I put this rifle and put it by the door, then
20 she addressed me and I was so startled, I got frightened and I left.
21 Although, that is one of the typical errors that policemen do
22 when they assume that someone is dead whereas they are actually alive,
23 and that's how you can get killed. If a man was to be in that position
24 lying down as pretending to be dead and then being in fact alive, then
25 they could use their weapon once you turned your back and shoot at you,
Page 7139
1 and then this would be trouble. But this was a woman, so I left the room
2 frightened, although, I felt frightened even before that, because this
3 was a horrible event. This was something that is terrible to even think
4 about let alone talk about.
5 And I said then, This woman is alive. And then one of my
6 colleagues entered the room and fired a bullet and the woman was killed.
7 Although she had only been wounded.
8 Q. Yes, but what was it, what was the cause of your fear? Were you
9 afraid that she might shoot at you?
10 A. Well, at that point it just occurred to me that she might have a
11 weapon maybe with her. You couldn't know. She might want to shoot even
12 though she would be killed herself in that case.
13 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, was it common for civilians to be armed and to
14 actually open fire on police officers in those days?
15 A. Well, citizens of Albanian ethnicity in 1998, for them this was
16 normal. It was absolutely -- it was quite normal to fire a bullet at a
17 policeman or a Serb, just a Serb national. This was something that was
18 very easy for them to do. And for most citizens of Albanian ethnicity,
19 this was just a normal occurrence.
20 Q. Tell us now, do you remember that during the war and even before
21 the war, that members of the KLA after they went on a mission, they would
22 change their clothes and put on civilian clothes so that in this way they
23 would escape detection?
24 A. I wouldn't know anything about that.
25 Q. You never participated in such an action?
Page 7140
1 A. No.
2 Q. Did you ever take part in road checks and checks for -- searches
3 for weapons and things like that?
4 A. Well, this did happen. I did do that before the war. In 1994,
5 when I was appointed to Suva Reka, from that point on, most people had
6 dealings with persons who had weapons, unauthorised weapons,
7 automatic rifles, pistols, and so on. So these people would be brought
8 to the police station, interviewed, and some of them would be summoned to
9 come to the police station as suspects, others not. I don't know exactly
10 what the procedure was, but I know that whenever there was a suspicion
11 that someone might own a fire-arm, they would bring them in to check the
12 weapons.
13 Sometimes they would have a weapon, they would be brought into
14 the police station, and then -- and of course, they would possess an
15 unauthorised weapon, and then after this interview they would bring
16 another weapon in.
17 Q. Now, tell me, do you know of instances where Albanians would
18 voluntarily surrender their arms because they knew that there would be
19 amnesty? Do you know of such instance that they would come in
20 voluntarily and surrender their weapon?
21 A. Well, I don't know about that. I know that we received a
22 telegram from the ministry. And on one occasion, I don't recall how it
23 worked, but on the second occasion they were given a two-month period -
24 and this did not only refer to Kosovo but for the entire territory of
25 Serbia
Page 7141
1 them and they would not be amnestied, they would not be submitted to
2 criminal prosecution.
3 Q. Thank you. Now, tell me, other than the truck that you were
4 following, did you see any other trucks on the 26th of March, 1999
5 A. I cannot say that with certainty. I cannot claim either way,
6 that there was or wasn't.
7 Q. Thank you. Now, you set off from the spot you marked on number 2
8 and you headed up Restanski Put Road; correct? Could you tell us now,
9 please, where did you find the bodies that you said you loaded onto the
10 truck, what spot was that at?
11 A. At the spot marked with number 7 and where the arrow is. Where
12 the arrow is, actually, below the 7, that's where we found the bodies.
13 Q. Thank you. So as you were walking along that road, you did not
14 find any other bodies along the road?
15 A. I say that I didn't. If somebody else said that they did, they
16 can explain it.
17 Q. I agree. Now, you said that you walked about a kilometre, a
18 kilometre and a half, and that that lasted about 15 minutes or so?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Thank you. Can we then conclude that the shots could only be
21 heard by those individuals who had left the police station before you?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And you recall that those persons were Cukaric, Tanovic, and
24 Miki Petkovic; correct?
25 A. Yes.
Page 7142
1 Q. Thank you. Now, I would like to explore this. You said that
2 throughout this there was witness, whose name we don't want to mention,
3 with you; correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Do you remember whether he was a member of the patrol on that
6 day?
7 A. Well, when we set off, he was in the courtyard of the police
8 station. I can't remember what duty he was assigned to on that
9 particular day, and I cannot remember what he had done up until that
10 point. As for the rest, I've explained how it transpired.
11 Q. Yes. And the other three, Cukaric, Tanovic, and Petkovic, were
12 they on the patrol roster for that day, as far as you know? Were they
13 members of the patrol?
14 A. I cannot really say with certainty. I know that they were
15 frequently on patrol. Whether Radovan Tanovic was there, whether he had
16 been at his home the previous day and then his unit left, I know he was a
17 member of the special unit. But -- so they couldn't take him. He could
18 not go to the positions where his unit had gone to subsequently, so he
19 remained there at the station. And I know that he was there and these
20 other police members, I know that the driver was also a member of the
21 patrol, our colleague, Ramiz Papic. But whether it was on that
22 particular day or whether he had some other assignment on that day, I
23 can't say that with certainty.
24 Q. Thank you. And am I correct if I say that there were two patrols
25 a day and that they would take turns?
Page 7143
1 A. Well, we actually had three shifts -- three patrol shifts a day.
2 Until the attacks began, we had two shift patrols per day; but when the
3 war broke out, that changed and we had three shifts a day. So those
4 shifts were 8 hours-1600; then 1600-2400; and then 2400-0800. Now, who
5 was on those patrol, I couldn't really say that. Well, the person, for
6 instance, who worked from 8.00 to 4.00, 8.00 to 1600 today, then in the
7 evening they would work from 8.00 to 12.00.
8 Q. Is that how it was throughout the war, that there were three
9 shifts of patrols?
10 A. That's correct, throughout the end of the war.
11 Q. Therefore, the people who had left the station are the people you
12 found at the location number 9?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. The person whose name we don't want to mention, why would he have
15 a reason to say that he was a member of the patrol and that he was with
16 the three other men rather than with you?
17 A. Maybe on that day he was a member of the vehicle patrol, under
18 the schedule. I cannot say anything with certainty. The computer that I
19 kept, which is now in Krusevac, if it's still there, can be used to check
20 that. They should look into the roster and orders for the
21 26th of March, 1999, and they will see exactly whether he was a member of
22 the patrol.
23 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, I'm asking you about your knowledge
24 concerning such evidence that can be obtained, I presume. But I'm
25 interested in your knowledge. That person told us that he was a member
Page 7144
1 of the vehicle patrol and that he was between the buildings where the
2 number 6 is, and then that he went to the building number 9 and that he
3 did not work at all on the loading of the bodies.
4 A. I can only repeat, I'm not certain what were his tasks that day,
5 and whether anything changed in the course of his shift. As for what he
6 said, that he was not with me, I told him in Belgrade that he was and
7 then he fell silent. I may be wrong, but I think his story is to his
8 detriment. Therefore, I stand by what I said. And that is that as of
9 the beginning and until the end, we were loading the bodies together. As
10 for any period preceding that, between 8.00 and noon and later in the
11 afternoon, I can't say anything.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask the usher to
13 give this unmarked hard copy to the witness.
14 JUDGE PARKER: What is it, Mr. Djurdjic?
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would like to put him the part
16 of the statement given in 2004 to an investigative judge.
17 JUDGE PARKER: This is his own statement?
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Yes.
19 Q. Please turn --
20 MR. STAMP: Just for clarification, is that the transcript of the
21 audio recording of his interview or is it a statement that was taken?
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Stamp, this is what you gave
23 me and what you used yesterday. You have the same copy as well as the
24 court in Belgrade
25 used yesterday. It is K040 page 85 --
Page 7145
1 THE INTERPRETER: Could Mr. Djurdjic repeat the number of the
2 page.
3 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
4 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, did you find the page 63?
5 A. I did.
6 Q. Can you read out the bottom part of the page?
7 A. "Did you see a reserve policemen ..." I don't want to read the
8 first and last name.
9 Q. That's right.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Sorry, first I wanted to tell the
11 Chamber and Mr. Stamp that it is page 16 of the English.
12 Q. Please continue.
13 A. Investigative judge:
14 "Did you see a reserve policemen?"
15 Witness Veljkovic:
16 "He was there."
17 Judge:
18 "Where was he?"
19 Witness:
20 "He was in front of the cafe bar. I don't think he killed
21 anyone. I can't say he did. He may have or he may have not."
22 Q. Please turn the next page and read out the first two questions
23 and answers.
24 A. Judge:
25 "You didn't see him?"
Page 7146
1 Witness:
2 "He was there but I didn't see him kill anyone."
3 Q. Thank you. This is your statement. The first statement before a
4 court following the statement you gave to the police?
5 A. This is the second statement. The first one was in 2003.
6 Q. But this one was the first before a court?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. That's why I'm asking you this. In this statement you say that
9 you saw the witness in front of the building number 9 and that he did not
10 shoot, that he was merely there?
11 A. I probably mixed things up. I believe I got confused. I can
12 tell you that this person was with me as of the moment we started loading
13 those bodies. He was on Restanski Put when we went up and returned next
14 to the building number 9. I think the two of us loaded most of the
15 bodies. After that, we received help from the people of the public
16 utilities company. I think that reservist left this place at the number
17 9 building shortly before me. Then I returned to the station. Although,
18 not all the bodies had been loaded by that time.
19 Q. Am I correct in saying that none of the three of you on that day
20 fired either a rifle or a side-arm?
21 A. I can tell you about me with certainty. As for the other two
22 colleagues, I didn't see them fire. If anyone else did, then that person
23 should explain. And still, they may have been firing in the air. It's
24 not the same as firing on people.
25 Q. You are saying to us that you did not see the two colleagues
Page 7147
1 fire?
2 A. That is correct.
3 Q. Throughout the time they were with you?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Thank you. Did you drink any alcohol with the witness, whose
6 name we don't want to mention, on that day when you were next to the
7 building number 9?
8 A. I know I did not. I do take a drink here and there, but I don't
9 get drunk. Secondly, the situation was such that there was no time to
10 have any alcohol that day.
11 Q. Thank you. What about the other policemen in front of the
12 building number 9, did you see them consume alcohol?
13 A. I cannot say that with any certainty. I didn't see them.
14 Q. You left before the end of the loading of bodies. You returned
15 to the police station?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Am I right in saying that you did not see the truck leave?
18 A. You are.
19 Q. You don't know in what direction it left?
20 A. I could presume that it would not have been an ordinary thing to
21 take the corpses towards Pristina because that road was under attack. I
22 believe the truck went towards Prizren. When I was being questioned by
23 the authorities, then I did tell them that the corpses were taken away.
24 Q. On the 26th, you did not know where the truck left to?
25 A. That's correct.
Page 7148
1 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe it is our
2 time for the technical break.
3 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, we spent 35 or 40 minutes marking
4 this aerial photo again. Did you want to tender it?
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I do. I
6 seek to tender it.
7 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
8 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit D00309, Your Honours.
9 JUDGE PARKER: We will adjourn now and resume at 11.00.
10 [The witness stands down]
11 --- Recess taken at 10.31 a.m.
12 --- On resuming at 11.01 a.m.
13 [The witness takes the stand]
14 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
16 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, on the 26th of March, 1999, did you see
17 Milorad Nisevic as you went along Restanski Put or by the pizzeria?
18 A. I did not.
19 Q. Thank you. Did you know Zoran Petkovic at the time?
20 A. At that time I only knew his brother Miroslav, not him.
21 Q. Am I right in saying that Zoran Petkovic was not a member of the
22 reserve police force in Suva Reka?
23 A. You are right.
24 Q. Thank you. How should I ask you this without sounding silly, but
25 in any case, on that occasion, did you see anyone firing whom you did not
Page 7149
1 know?
2 A. I did not.
3 Q. Thank you. Am I right, Mr. Veljkovic, in saying that
4 Milan Cifka [phoen] was not an OUP Suva Reka employee in 1998 and 1999?
5 A. You are right.
6 Q. In the village of Ranic
7 police station; is that correct?
8 A. It is.
9 Q. Thank you.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have document
11 D004-2262.
12 Q. Did you see the first page of the document?
13 A. I did.
14 Q. Have a close look.
15 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Can we next move to the second
16 page.
17 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, does this schematic reflect the layout of the
18 building on the ground floor and the first floor of the police station in
19 Suva
20 A. Yes, it does.
21 Q. Thank you. I think you were shown this during the trial before
22 the war crimes Chamber in Belgrade
23 A. I was shown schematics, but I don't recall this one in
24 particular.
25 Q. Thank you. We said that this is the layout of the building, and
Page 7150
1 that it is correct?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, this is the ground floor; right?
4 A. Yes, it is.
5 Q. We see the entrance door to the ground floor. Can you mark that
6 with a 1.
7 A. Where it says the small room?
8 Q. Wherever you think is the entrance, mark the entrance with the
9 number 1.
10 A. Go ahead.
11 Q. Please mark the entrance to the duty office.
12 A. You want me to mark it with a 1?
13 Q. Yes, at the entrance.
14 A. [Marks]
15 Q. Thank you. Is it correct that the duty office is to the right?
16 A. It is.
17 Q. Can you mark it with a 2.
18 A. [Marks]
19 Q. Is this where the shift leader of the duty office sits?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What about communications, where is that equipment, can you mark
22 it with a 3.
23 A. [Marks]
24 Q. Thank you. Next mark the detention room with a 4.
25 A. [Marks]
Page 7151
1 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, when one is in the duty office, where
2 would the courtyard be?
3 A. Most of the courtyard is to the right of the number 3.
4 Q. Please put a dash, a line there, and mark it with a 5.
5 A. [Marks]
6 Q. Where were you when you heard Commander Repanovic say to the
7 policemen to go somewhere?
8 A. And to me, and I refused, is this what you mean?
9 Q. I'm interested in two things. Were you with them there or did
10 they leave first and were you told to join them, and where did it all
11 take place?
12 A. They were supposed to leave, and I came at that point, having
13 heard what commander Repanovic told me, I refused. I can tell you where
14 he was.
15 Q. Were you present when he told them what to do?
16 A. No.
17 Q. Thank you. Now, show me where you were.
18 A. At that point -- how do you want me to mark it?
19 Q. First tell me where were you so as to make sure you were in the
20 building or maybe outside.
21 A. Where it says the duty officers' room, I was just in front of
22 that room.
23 Q. Mark it with an X.
24 A. [Marks]
25 Q. And put a 6 there.
Page 7152
1 A. [Marks]
2 Q. So you were in front of the building where you arrived?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When you arrived, where were the other policemen?
5 A. To the right of the number 6.
6 Q. How far?
7 A. Perhaps 3 to 4 metres from the entrance door.
8 Q. Thank you. What were they doing as you came?
9 A. I simply saw them armed and that they were getting ready to
10 leave.
11 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, members of the vehicle patrol are
12 always armed and equipped when out on a mission or a task?
13 A. That is correct.
14 Q. Was it something extraordinary to see them dressed like that?
15 A. No, not given the situation.
16 Q. As you were approaching, were they leaving or doing something
17 else?
18 A. Well, they went to the right of this number 6 towards the carpool
19 because that's where the parking area was for the vehicles.
20 Approximately there.
21 Q. Thank you. So they went around the corner; correct? When you
22 came to the spot marked with number 6, is that where the commander of the
23 police station was?
24 A. Yes, he was there. Maybe a metre or two to the left or right.
25 Q. Thank you. And you are telling us that you can't remember what
Page 7153
1 he told you then?
2 A. There is no way I can remember what he told me, but --
3 Q. But you concluded that you didn't want to go?
4 A. Yes, I simply decided that I did not want to go anywhere with
5 these men.
6 Q. Thank you. And what did you do next?
7 A. Then I went inside, I entered the hallway on the ground floor,
8 and -- to the right where the duty service office is, and I think that I
9 sat down there by the door, by the very door.
10 Q. Thank you. Mr. Veljkovic, now, tell us please, what did the
11 commander do once you entered the office of the duty service?
12 A. He did not say another word to me.
13 Q. Thank you. Do you know where he went?
14 A. I can't remember whether he remained in the yard where I put the
15 number 6, or whether he left -- went to his own office. I'm not sure.
16 Q. Thank you. Can you tell us, from the point when you entered the
17 office of the duty service onwards, did you see him for the remainder of
18 the day?
19 A. When I returned from the building and the loading of the bodies
20 was still going on, he was in the building. I did see him. But what he
21 did, that's really his business.
22 Q. Thank you. Did you talk to him at all after that?
23 A. No, nor did he address me in any way.
24 Q. Thank you. Now, so we are at the point in time where you are in
25 the duty service office. What happens next?
Page 7154
1 A. Well, what happens is what I told you already. The room, the
2 detention room, the patrol brought a man, an Albanian to the detention
3 room. He was a suspect because the patrol found him shooting at the
4 police. So this was an armed attack on the police. He was held in
5 detention there.
6 When I came there, a few days before when he was brought there, I
7 heard sounds, I was in the hallway, I heard sounds from the detention
8 room. I asked what it was, what was going on, and I was told that he had
9 been brought there. However, I'm not sure about the rest. We know what
10 the procedure is when there is a suspect brought in as a suspect. There
11 is a fixed procedure that has to be followed when that happens. Whether
12 they actually complied with the procedure or not, I really don't know.
13 Q. Thank you. We will come back to this. But I would like to know
14 this: It says here "Detention Unit." However, the Suva Reka OUP did not
15 have a room that was a detention room. It was, rather, a -- it was
16 actually a room where a person was kept until they were sent to a
17 Detention Unit or to the jail?
18 A. Yes, this room that was used for detaining persons was a problem
19 everywhere, and the same is true of Suva Reka. This room, in my view,
20 and maybe I'm not right, was not suitable for detaining people there, for
21 a person staying in that room. At least not according to our rules.
22 Q. Well, that's what I wanted to ask you about. You said that some
23 person was held in that room for a number of days. Could you tell us, in
24 regard to the 26th of March, when was this man brought there?
25 A. Well, he might have been brought the 23rd or the 24th of March
Page 7155
1 there.
2 Q. Thank you. Would you agree with me that the war had not started
3 yet on the 23rd or 24th of March?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Do you agree with me that on the 24th in the evening, the state
6 of war was declared? It was only then that it was declared?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. So in peacetime, the Suva Reka OUP did not have a crime inspector
9 who dealt with terrorism, who investigated terrorism?
10 A. I think not. I'm not sure, and I cannot say for certain either
11 way.
12 Q. Thank you. That's why I'm asking you. Such individuals, if they
13 are suspects, they would be then escorted and handed over to the
14 Prizren SUP
15 and so on?
16 A. Yes. There are fixed procedures what needs to be done. There
17 are dead-lines that have to be met. So first of all, a policeman who
18 would bring in someone would have to explain why the person was brought
19 in, then the person would have to be searched and so on. Then
20 interviewed and then there would be a decision on their detention issued,
21 written decision, and then that person, following such a decision, would
22 be detained.
23 Now, whether these people actually complied with the procedure
24 and acted on it, I really wouldn't know.
25 Q. Thank you. Being in the administration, did you have anything to
Page 7156
1 do with this type of procedure?
2 A. No.
3 Q. And who was in charge of processing the papers for such a suspect
4 who was brought in to Suva Reka OUP?
5 A. Well, this would be a paper that would have to be issued when a
6 person is brought in.
7 Q. All I would like to know is the paperwork. Who would do the
8 paperwork, fill out the forms, the necessary forms, the log-book where
9 the name would be entered, and so on? Who would be in charge of that?
10 A. Well, the log-book for persons who are detained can be --
11 actually, the decision to detain a person who is brought into the station
12 would be something that could be issued by the commander, the deputy
13 commander, or the assistant. And then they would further process and
14 issue the decisions.
15 Q. So this was not done by the duty service; correct?
16 A. That's correct. Now, I'm not sure whether this would be written
17 down in the log-book that a person was brought in as a suspect.
18 Q. Thank you. Now, tell me, who would be in charge of a suspect, of
19 a person who was brought in as a suspect and kept in this room for
20 detention? Who is responsible for this person?
21 A. Well, the authorised person, once a decision, a written decision
22 was issued, would be the shift leader at the duty service. And he was
23 duty-bound to inform the following shift leader, the shift leader coming
24 after him, to inform him of a person being detained and what type of
25 detention it is and so on.
Page 7157
1 Q. Thank you. Now, tell us, please, you were in the office of the
2 duty service, what happened next? What can you recall?
3 A. I cannot remember exactly which one of my colleagues picked up
4 the key that hung above the desk of the shift leader, and I can't recall
5 who it was exactly who picked up this key which was hanging there. The
6 key to the room for detention. But I remember clearly that they took
7 this key, they unlocked the room, they took this man out, and he was
8 taken out into the hallway from this room marked with number 4, brought
9 to the spot where it says number 1. And then they did not enter the duty
10 service office, rather he turned right and then went toward the place
11 marked with number 6 and then around the corner to the place marked with
12 number 5 where an APC
13 building where number 134/98 is written down.
14 And from this office of the duty service, I heard, because it was
15 not too far away, I heard a shot. I can't remember if it was a pistol or
16 a rifle shot, whether there was one or several shots. And when I went
17 out, I mean, it immediately occurred to me that I was suspicious. I had
18 suspicions that they wanted to shoot this man. And when I reached the
19 corner of the building, the building of the Suva Reka police station, I
20 saw this man dead and next to him was Radovan Tanovic, Sladjan Cukaric
21 and Miroslav Petkovic, they were standing there next to him. I don't
22 know who it was of the three who shot him. They would know that better.
23 Q. Thank you. So you heard this shot but you didn't see it actually
24 happening. What happened from the moment when you heard the shot to the
25 time when you got out of the office?
Page 7158
1 A. Well, it was just a few seconds, let's say 30 seconds.
2 Q. Thank you. What did the three of them do when you arrived?
3 A. Nothing, they were just standing by this man and they were not
4 doing anything.
5 Q. Tell us, now, what happened next.
6 A. I think I went back to the duty service office and then some five
7 to ten minutes later, as I've already told you, I heard a burst of
8 gun-fire coming from the direction of Restanski Put or thereabouts, and
9 then I went out. I was on the sidewalk as I described this yesterday, of
10 Cara Dusana Street, and then I saw the things that I described yesterday.
11 Q. Thank you. So you didn't know nor did you see when you went back
12 to the duty service office, where they went?
13 A. That's correct.
14 Q. And you just reacted because you heard the sound of gun-shots or
15 shots; correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Now, let me ask you this do you know who Milica Djordjevic is?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Do you allow for the possibility that the person who was detained
20 was taken to the house that you earlier marked with number 2 and shot
21 there, shot dead there?
22 A. Well, this is what he claimed in Belgrade, and I think you were
23 one of the Defence team of one of the accused there, so he claimed that
24 this man was taken to that house and that from the bell tower he saw that
25 Sladjan Cukaric had shot the man. On the other hand, he also claimed
Page 7159
1 that I was not in Suva Reka on that particular day at all. So that his
2 entire statement to me is simply suspicious, or it lacks credibility.
3 Q. Well, let me just ask you this: If you were at the spot marked
4 with number 2 and he was at the spot where the bell tower was, this
5 distance would have been approximately the same as the distance -- so the
6 distance from the bell tower to house number 2 and from where you were to
7 number 2 was approximately the same, and the line of vision was
8 approximately the same?
9 A. Yes, that's correct. I saw some people standing there and
10 that -- you could also see on the sketch that I made, and also it could
11 be seen from the bell tower because there were some windows there and
12 anyone who had good vision could see it.
13 Although, I stand by what I said. And I said that this man, who
14 had been detained, was shot next to the building of the Suva Reka OUP.
15 And I stand by that. Whether they said something else, I don't know, but
16 I stand by what I said.
17 Q. All right. Tell us this: When you heard the shots, you went to
18 the spot outside the bus terminal. Tell us this: Was someone --
19 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter correction: In front of the police
20 station.
21 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Now, tell me this, was anyone with you while you were there
23 outside the police station when you heard the shots and you went out onto
24 the street outside the police station, was there anyone there with you?
25 A. I can't recall, but I think there wasn't anyone there.
Page 7160
1 Q. Was there anything on the street as you got out of the building?
2 A. Well, there was only a vehicle parked by a lamp post, that was
3 the vehicle containing the bodies of the dead members of the Berisha
4 family.
5 Q. Was the vehicle there when you arrived there?
6 A. When I got out to see which family they were killing, the vehicle
7 was already there. Now, when it had been brought there, I wouldn't know
8 that.
9 Q. Would you tell me, please, other than the parked truck, was there
10 anything else on the road?
11 A. I can't recall, and I can't say with any certainty whether there
12 was or wasn't.
13 Q. Can I conclude then that you don't know where this truck had come
14 from, the parked truck that you saw there when you left the building?
15 A. Yes, you can. I can't say exactly from which direction it had
16 come, but for reasons of security, I concluded that it could only have
17 come from the direction of Prizren because the Pristina direction was
18 quite dangerous already.
19 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, could they have come from the part where the
20 municipal building was or the Balkan building was?
21 A. Yes, but that's all from the direction of Prizren.
22 Q. Yes, but they could have come from some spot in Suva Reka; right?
23 A. Yes, of course. This was all in Suva Reka.
24 Q. Now, tell us, how long did you stay there outside the police
25 station?
Page 7161
1 A. I can't recall, but I think it wasn't very long. Maybe a minute
2 or so that I lingered there at the spot where the sidewalk was and where
3 this parked truck was.
4 Q. All right. So what did you do next?
5 A. Next I went back to the station -- into the station, and then, I
6 can't remember who it was who told me to go and load the bodies because
7 the bodies had to be buried, so then I went to the administration office
8 to take my rifle. I'm not sure if I had my pistol on me already. Then I
9 got ready. I locked up the administration room and went behind this
10 truck to load the bodies.
11 Q. Thank you. So you don't remember exactly where it was that you
12 set off from but you remember you took the rifle, and then again, you had
13 to walk out through the station courtyard, so what happened next?
14 A. Well, what I'm saying is that this detained person was lying
15 there dead. His body was lying there. And then I loaded this body
16 together with a colleague who was a protected witness here, we loaded him
17 onto the truck and then the truck went in the direction of Restane.
18 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could you next turn to page
19 K04085.
20 JUDGE PARKER: The sketch of the police station that has been
21 marked, Mr. Djurdjic?
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I asked
23 for that to be copied and translated. I don't know whether we can mark
24 it as such for identification. There's very little to translate, and we
25 had the witness explain everything. Therefore, I seek to tender it. If
Page 7162
1 that cannot be met, then perhaps we could have it MFI'd pending
2 translation. Of course, the marked numbers will be missing, but then
3 they can be copied as well.
4 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
5 JUDGE PARKER: We will have the marked page as an exhibit.
6 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00310.
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
8 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, please go to page 59.
9 A. 8559?
10 Q. Yes. From the bottom, the fourth and third lines, can you read
11 out the question and the answer?
12 A. Which sentence exactly?
13 Q. The investigative judge and what happened and then what follows.
14 A. Investigative judge:
15 "What happened with the corpse of the detainee?"
16 Witness:
17 "He was taken away on a truck. I don't know where to."
18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Veljkovic.
19 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] It is page 11 of the English, I
20 apologise for having omitted to say that.
21 JUDGE PARKER: I take it you are referring to the transcript of
22 the questioning by Judge Dilparic? Thank you.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This is the same statement. I
24 have a translation for the other one, that was provided to the
25 Prosecution. So we have a number for that.
Page 7163
1 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, in 2004 you said that the body was taken away on a
2 truck and that you didn't know where to. This is a transcript.
3 A. It reflects what I said. I put it that way at that time. I
4 forgot some things and now I put it differently, so that's a problem
5 then.
6 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, is your recollection better now or was it better
7 back then since that was closer to the events?
8 A. It would be illogical for me to say that my recollection is
9 better now since more time has elapsed, but I would like to stand by what
10 I just said and that is that we put the body on the truck and that
11 together with the Berisha family, that body was buried.
12 Q. Would you agree with me that this is the type of event that is
13 difficult to forget, it is in the your run-of-the-mill day? You see a
14 corpse like that and it remains etched in your memory?
15 A. That is correct, but the situation in which I was there doing it
16 with my work-mates was such that some things remain etched in my memory
17 whereas others I seem to have easily forgotten.
18 Q. Thank you for that response.
19 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we please provide the
20 witness with his statement given to the Prosecution on the
21 18th of January, 2006. I have it in B/C/S.
22 Your Honours, and Mr. Stamp, this is 65 ter 05337.
23 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, look at the end of paragraph 18, it is page 5 in
24 the English. Here you say in the sentence mentioning the pizzeria, I
25 quote:
Page 7164
1 "There was a crime technician officer present at the pizzeria
2 named Todor Jovanovic though I did not see him conducting any sort of
3 investigation."
4 Is that correct?
5 A. As I said yesterday, the problem we have is that my statements,
6 well, I shouldn't overstate it, but let's say half of it does not tally.
7 I included some things that others had said. Those who questioned me
8 were far more versed in the very core of the problem in the case itself,
9 and they prompted me, and I then consented that certain things be
10 introduced into my statement.
11 I cannot say with any certainty whether there was a
12 scene-of-crime officer there by the name of Todor Jovanovic or not. If
13 several people said so. In my view, he wasn't there. As for any others,
14 I can't say.
15 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, I want to only hear from you about the things you
16 know and saw. When you were referring to someone else, then, of course,
17 you can warn us about that. Let's clear one thing up: This statement
18 you signed in English, was it read back to you?
19 A. Yes, in Serbian. I signed every page of it.
20 Q. But you signed the English pages, correct, not the Serbian ones?
21 A. I can't say. I do think that I only signed the English copy, not
22 the Serbian.
23 Q. I don't think that is in dispute. We have it here. And you had
24 no objections when it was being read back to you?
25 A. No, I signed without any objection.
Page 7165
1 Q. Given the time that has passed, there may have been more ideas
2 and combinations that came to your mind since then, this is the third
3 statement?
4 A. No, this is the fourth at Jevrem Grujica, number 11. If we do
5 not count the Leskovac statement, then it is the third. If we do, then
6 this is the fourth statement. I gave a statement in Leskovac in 2004.
7 Q. When you gave the first statement to the police, they also shared
8 information with you to the effect that they knew certain things?
9 A. Yes, they put question, I provided answers, but they also added
10 things, and I simply believed them. I should believe the person
11 interviewing me. If I don't trust you, who should I trust?
12 Q. You should trust the court alone.
13 A. Yes, of course, the Judges.
14 Q. So next we have another statement before an investigative judge,
15 and he referred to what you had said to the police?
16 A. Which judge?
17 Q. Judge Dilparic?
18 A. I can't say that they showed me any statements by others.
19 Q. I didn't mean statements of others. He referred to your first
20 statement given to the police and that you based your evidence on that?
21 A. I'm not sure. He may have shown me that statement, but I can't
22 say with certainty.
23 Q. Can you go to page 68. Have a look at the beginning of this
24 statement.
25 A. Which paragraph?
Page 7166
1 Q. The fourth paragraph from the top.
2 A. Investigative judge:
3 "In the statement to the police you said you had seen him at the
4 time as you were loading the bodies before the business centre,
5 Commander Repanovic and Milojko [phoen] came."
6 Witness's answer:
7 "So he was there as well?"
8 Investigative judge:
9 "I don't know. This is what you said to the police."
10 Witness:
11 "He was probably there if I said so. I signed several pages, so
12 he must have been there, it must have been like that."
13 Q. Therefore, you were shown your statement to the police on that
14 occasion?
15 A. Probably, yes. This is what I conclude based on my answer.
16 Q. This brings us to your third statement given in September.
17 A. Yes, in Leskovac.
18 Q. Am I right in saying that you provided that statement because you
19 were called to do that by the war crimes investigator in Belgrade?
20 A. I was summoned by the deputy state attorney in Leskovac and he
21 did say that that was for the purposes of the war crimes bench. He told
22 me that I was supposed to give a new statement. Since I resided closer
23 to Leskovac than Belgrade
24 Leskovac, you will sign it and I will take a copy to Belgrade.
25 Before I started giving that statement, I saw a list of people
Page 7167
1 who were supposed to be apprehended. As for the other two statements,
2 there was no plan to apprehend any persons, but just prior to giving this
3 third statement, I saw on the Judge's desk that there was a list of those
4 who were supposed to be detained. I conclude from that that he was
5 filling in the gaps because he was much more acquainted with the whole
6 case. That was his duty.
7 Q. Thank you. Then you went to Jevrem Grujica Street?
8 A. Yes. When I gave the statement in Leskovac, in addition to
9 having read the list of people who were supposed to be detained, after
10 signing the statement, the deputy district attorney in Leskovac,
11 Mr. Stankovic, officially told me that people were going to detained.
12 And I can even quote him. He said, Your statement tallies
13 completely in the most important aspects with those of other witnesses.
14 It only deviates in some small detail which are -- is not that relevant.
15 He put to me then that a woman from that family survived. That
16 she jumped off the truck in Prizren. She went to a Serbian who promised
17 to appear here as a witness. He also said that the corpses were taken to
18 the Prizren barracks where they were buried for two weeks. Two weeks
19 later, they were reburied at Batajnica.
20 He concluded by saying, Go home; you will be called to appear
21 during the main hearing which will be recorded. He simply let me know
22 that the people on the list will apprehended. You know, from your
23 colleague in Belgrade
24 certain media articles, et cetera. The colleagues in Medvedje knew where
25 I worked and were familiar with my statements, and three weeks later,
Page 7168
1 they told me, Some of your people are detained. People usually say that
2 journalists lie, but they didn't lie a thing about this case. I did read
3 that they were detained and charged with the murders of the Berisha
4 family, and the papers only carried initials those -- of those detained.
5 I was familiar with the initials, and when I was told this I was
6 quite shocked in the courtroom. And then I said openly, These people are
7 counting their last days of freedom. And that was correct. Three weeks
8 after my Leskovac statement, nine people ended up in the investigative
9 prison in Belgrade
10 statement on the 23rd of September, 2005.
11 On the 17th of October - says the witness - maybe before that,
12 maybe after that, they were already in jail in Belgrade. Later on in
13 January, I received a summons via my superior in Medvedje to appear in
14 Jevrem Grujica Street on number 11 to have -- to attend a new hearing.
15 Q. We'll get to that. Mr. Veljkovic, let us go back to several
16 things. When you were in Leskovac with Mr. Dragoljub Stankovic, there
17 you said your famous statement which goes something like: If others say
18 he was there, then he must have been.
19 A. That is correct.
20 Q. If that was in 2005 as you say, in September, then in
21 January 2006 you went to Jevrem Grujica Street?
22 A. Exactly.
23 Q. And those people you referred to were put in jail in
24 October 2006?
25 A. 2005.
Page 7169
1 Q. No, 2006.
2 A. Those people were detained in 2005, not 2006.
3 Q. 2005, you're right. In January you gave a statement to the
4 Prosecution?
5 A. Right.
6 Q. It was translated and you signed it. You say that they showed
7 you certain statements, et cetera. Is it correct that you never attended
8 any meetings of those in charge of the OUP in Suva Reka?
9 A. That is correct.
10 Q. Is it correct that you never attended the meetings of those in
11 charge of the police station in Suva Reka?
12 A. That is correct.
13 Q. Is it correct that you never attended any meetings of those in
14 charge of the OUP in the territory of Prizren
15 police in the Prizren SUP
16 A. Correct.
17 Q. Am I right in saying that you were issued tasks and that you
18 reported to the Prizren SUP
19 A. At the end of each month, I submitted reports on those brought
20 in, on those whose IDs were checked, as well as on the reports and
21 Official Notes recorded. I took that to Nenad Jovanovic who was the
22 assistant commander. It would be sent by mail on a monthly basis to
23 Prizren. They kept all the records about the work of the police station.
24 Q. Am I right in saying that the head of the police station,
25 Mr. Repanovic, was in direct communication only with Prizren?
Page 7170
1 A. He was not a head, he was the station commander. And yes, he
2 did. When he was absent, there was his deputy and his assistant.
3 MR. DJORDJEVIC: [Interpretation] Could we next have document
4 D004-2264.
5 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, what will be presented to you is an extract from
6 the daily event or incidents log of the Suva Reka police station for
7 1999. The period concerned is the 13th of March to -- sorry, the
8 26th of February, 1999, to, let me see, to the 27th of April, 1999
9 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we have page 36. I think it
10 is page 3. Yes. Can we please go down the page.
11 Q. Do you see the entry numbers 36?
12 A. I do.
13 Q. What is the date?
14 A. The 22nd of March, 1999.
15 Q. What is registered there? Just describe it for us, it will be
16 translated.
17 A. I'll read it out, although it is a bit unclear. It is
18 reported -- no, first of all:
19 "Terrorism Article 125 of the Penal Code of Serbia
20 done by Nebojsa Gogic, traffic policeman, who was an employee in the
21 Suva Reka station. He reports that in Cara Dusana Street in Suva Reka in
22 the auto spare parts shop in Retimlje," if I'm reading that correctly,
23 "Balkom Belt [phoen] was killed by terrorists as well as Nenad Lazic from
24 the village of Sopina
25 does it say here? - "from close proximity."
Page 7171
1 An on-site investigation was done by the investigative judge, a
2 dispatch was sent to Prizren, a criminal report was submitted and there's
3 no number.
4 Q. Let's go to the next page. Entry number 37. What is the date?
5 A. The 5th of April at 2100 hours. Sorry, 2110. Nenad Jovanovic,
6 assistant commander of the Suva Reka police station. Terrorist attack.
7 Q. Thank you. We'll have a translation of it. Am I right in saying
8 that as of the 22nd of March under item 36 and up to the
9 5th of April, 1999, item 37, there was not a single incident that was
10 reported in the daily incidents book?
11 A. You are right.
12 Q. Am I right in saying that everything entered into the daily
13 incidents log was something that the SUP in Prizren was notified about?
14 A. It says here that a dispatch was sent. However, I do think that
15 they first reported that by phone and then would send dispatches. I am
16 familiar with this event concerning Nenad Jovanovic.
17 I went to the scene. A terrorist used a hand-held launcher. It
18 hit their vehicle, but fortunately none of the colleagues were hurt.
19 Even Nenad Jovanovic was there himself. It was in the evening.
20 Q. You were there. Who was in the vehicle with Nenad Jovanovic?
21 A. Ramiz Papic and someone else. Certainly there wasn't only one
22 person.
23 Q. Thank you. Now, do you agree with me that based on this daily
24 incidents log-book, the police station did not inform the Prizren SUP of
25 the murder of the Berisha family?
Page 7172
1 A. Well, I -- you mean when the Berisha family were killed? No, I
2 can't really say for certain whether they informed Prizren or not.
3 Q. Should such an incident be logged in the daily incidents
4 log-book?
5 A. I cannot answer that question because, simply put, it is
6 exceeding one's -- well, it's an instance of exceeding of authority
7 without any prior intention, and I wouldn't really know what that
8 description of the incident would actually look like.
9 Q. Sir, did the Suva Reka police station actually conceal this
10 event, the events of the 26th of March in Suva Reka?
11 A. I cannot really say that either way.
12 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, please tell us, when you returned to
13 the station, did you receive an order, did anyone issue an order to you
14 that you should go and send or expel Albanians from their homes?
15 A. When I arrived there, I heard that it was said that people should
16 not be killed, that we should go from door to door and order the people
17 of ethnic Albanian origin to leave their homes, to leave Suva Reka, and
18 to go to Albania
19 Q. Let me just ask you this, who could you have heard this from when
20 you were at the police station all by yourself?
21 A. Well, I can't recall which colleague it was who told me this.
22 Q. Am I correct in saying that this was something that you were just
23 discussing amongst yourselves?
24 A. Well, I can't tell you.
25 Q. Thank you. And am I correct in saying that you did not leave the
Page 7173
1 station in order to go and inform the Albanians of that?
2 A. I know that I did not go to tell Albanians to leave their homes,
3 but I told you yesterday, and I stand by it, that I was at the police
4 station when there was this phone call where the woman asked me about
5 this order to move out; and when she asked me, Where should we go, and I
6 said, Go abroad, and when she said, Well whom do we have in Albania
7 which I said, Well, in that case the same fate will meet you that met the
8 Berisha family. And then I hung up.
9 Then about half an hour later, I don't know if even that much
10 time passed, people just started packing and leaving for Albania
11 in their cars and so on. So this would have been -- this would have
12 taken place for about an hour or so. It couldn't have been more than
13 that.
14 Q. Tell me, Mr. Veljkovic, did you tell the ICTY investigator about
15 this when you provided your statement in 2006?
16 A. I can't recall. I don't even know if the gentleman asked me
17 about it.
18 Q. Would you read, please -- would you please read paragraph 19.
19 A. "When we returned to the police station I heard from other
20 colleagues that another order had been given that we were to go from
21 house to house and tell any remaining Albanians that they have half an
22 hour to pack their things and leave. I assumed that this order also had
23 come from Repanovic. I just stayed in the police station. Half an hour
24 later, the Albanians began to leave in their vehicles towards Prizren or
25 the border with Albania
Page 7174
1 Q. Thank you. Is it -- would it be possible for an ICTY
2 investigator to not note down something that you may have said about this
3 in January 2006?
4 A. You mean whether he would have written it down, I can't really
5 know, but I don't even remember whether he put that question or not. But
6 I know that I was asked about it by the gentleman who interviewed me the
7 first time, the 26 or 27th February, 2003, when toward the end of the
8 interview he asked me, and I recall the question:
9 "What did you say to the woman who called the duty service of the
10 Suva Reka police station?"
11 He put that question directly to me, and then I said that to him.
12 Q. Let me ask you this: What language did you speak when you spoke
13 to this woman?
14 A. In Serbian because I can't speak Albanian. And when she called,
15 she asked me in Serbian. I didn't know, of course, who was tall calling;
16 she just asked that, and I said what I said.
17 Q. Thank you. Am I right in saying that you do not have any
18 knowledge, direct knowledge, about -- that you were never told that
19 Albanian nationals should move out?
20 A. Could you please repeat that question.
21 Q. Am I correct when I say that you did not receive an order to go
22 and tell the people of Albanian ethnicity that they should move out?
23 A. Yes, you are correct.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the statement
25 65 ter 337, I seek that it be admitted into evidence.
Page 7175
1 JUDGE PARKER: What is the date of that?
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] This is the statement of
3 18th January, 2006
4 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00311.
6 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
7 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, do you remember that during the war an
8 investigating team would go in the field to investigate -- to conduct an
9 on-site investigation if a criminal report was submitted?
10 A. Well, I remember only one incident when an on-site investigation
11 was conducted by an investigating judge and with the assistance of the
12 police. And the outcome of this investigation was very tragic. This was
13 at the end of the air-strike campaign. I think this was in late May, in
14 the second half of May, and I know well that I was on duty at the time.
15 And at about 2.00 or 3.00, I was told by our patrols via our
16 communication line that there was a murder in Pecane or somewhere like
17 that, I can't exactly recall where. And so our men decided that on the
18 next day they would go there and conduct an on-site investigation.
19 When they were leaving, the commander -- the deputy commander of
20 Prokuplje was there, I think his driver was there too, and the Prizren
21 investigating Judge Cane Janicijevic; and on their way out, they ran into
22 a land-mine and all three were killed. Whether there were any other
23 on-site investigations before that, I wouldn't know.
24 Q. Well, I wasn't asking you only about the deaths of non-Albanians,
25 but also Albanians. When there were Albanians found dead in Suva Reka,
Page 7176
1 there would be a team to investigate the incident.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could I have document D004-2246,
3 please, on the screens.
4 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, this is a report from April 1st on the finding of
5 a body in Prizrenska Street in Suva Reka. Do you recall the incident?
6 A. I can't recall it. I did not keep records of crime reports.
7 Q. But do you recall that there was an investigating team toward the
8 end of March that was conducting an investigation on Restanski Road?
9 A. I don't know that either.
10 Q. I think it was on the 30th of March, and they were conducting an
11 investigation between the houses of the Berisha family?
12 A. I don't know about that.
13 Q. All right. And do you know of Dr. Boban Sanovic [as interpreted]
14 and how he got killed?
15 A. I think this was in the first half of April, 1999. He was with
16 four of his colleagues, people from the Territorial Defence, and they
17 were on their way to -- between Stopina-Musotiste [phoen] on the main
18 road, Albanian terrorists carried out an armed attack on them. I think
19 there were five men in this vehicle including Dr. Boban, and they were
20 killed.
21 I don't know if they conducted an on-site investigation or not.
22 They were brought to the medical centre first, and then I can't say with
23 certainty what happened afterwards, whether their bodies were taken to
24 Prizren or not to the forensic institute to be examined. And I think on
25 the very next day they were buried. So I recall this incident vividly.
Page 7177
1 I think this would have been around 1.00 p.m., but I'm not sure of the
2 date, but I know it was in the first half of April.
3 Q. Thank you.
4 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Mr. Veljkovic, thank you for
5 answering my questions.
6 Your Honours, I thank you and this concludes my
7 cross-examination.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Djurdjic.
9 Mr. Stamp.
10 MR. STAMP: Just a couple of questions, Your Honour.
11 Re-examination by Mr. Stamp:
12 Q. Mr. Veljkovic --
13 JUDGE PARKER: I see, Mr. Djurdjic has had another thought.
14 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I forgot to seek to
15 tender the daily incidents log, to have it MFI'd pending translation.
16 This was document -- it was a Defence document. We saw it. If you bear
17 with me, and I apologise to my learned friend Mr. Stamp --
18 JUDGE PARKER: It will be marked.
19 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It is D004-2264.
20 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00312 marked
21 for identification.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
23 Yes, Mr. Stamp.
24 MR. STAMP: Your Honours, while we are at it, the untranslated
25 documents marked for translation, we had taken a position when this
Page 7178
1 procedure started that we would not object because we wanted to the
2 procedures to move quickly, but over the last two weeks the majority of
3 the documents the Defence has used are not in the language of the
4 Tribunal and it is becoming -- or any of the official languages, and it
5 is becoming very difficult to follow the evidence of the witness with
6 these untranslated documents.
7 Now, I know that there are difficulties in getting documents
8 translated, but it seems to me that if the Defence made proper
9 representations to the CLSS, or whoever does the translations, and prior
10 to that prioritised documents in the order that we were going to use
11 them, we could have translated documents used with the witnesses while
12 they are here.
13 I discovered in respect to one document when I had a spot
14 translation after the witness left that if there was a translation there
15 would be meaningful information that we could have brought before the
16 Court.
17 So I would ask the Court if -- and this is just a request made to
18 the Defence through the Court, if proper efforts could be made to have
19 documents in the language of the Tribunal used in cross-examination. I
20 know it can be done because these are not many documents, and I've seen
21 situations in the past where five times as many documents have been
22 translated by counsel, and that is just a matter not of sending simply a
23 batch of documents for translation, but of prioritizing them. It can be
24 done. And if the Defence do what is necessary, we will have documents
25 that we can read. That's all I wish to say about it now, Your Honours.
Page 7179
1 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp, and Mr. Djurdjic, the Chamber would ask
2 you to liaise on this matter and to do it with the CLSS in an effort to
3 ensure that the occasions when an untranslated document is used are kept
4 to a minimum. It has become apparent that not merely an isolated
5 document, but quite consistently, most documents put by the Defence to
6 witnesses in cross-examination have not been translated.
7 The Chamber has, of course, left it open to the Prosecution in
8 such a case to seek to recall the witness at a later time when a
9 translation is made, but we all realise that the cost and delay involved
10 in such a process is considerable and that it would only be a really
11 grave matter that would warrant that occurring.
12 Therefore, we would ask that the present position be improved
13 dramatically by whatever means can be arranged in cooperation with the
14 CLSS. Obviously if this is not done, the Chamber's recourse will have to
15 be to refuse to allow the use of untranslated documents which will be
16 much to the disadvantage, I would expect, of the Defence.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, briefly, I think
18 Mr. Stamp is right, although, I believe that the translation service is
19 doing utmost. I forward them a voluminous bulk of documents, but the
20 problem may have been that we did not prioritize adequately. We will do
21 so in the future. However, the documents we showed to the witnesses were
22 more of an illustrative nature than material to the issues at hand. In
23 any case, we will try to meet the request put to us. As regards the
24 translation service, we certainly have no objections as to their work.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Carry on, please, Mr. Stamp.
Page 7180
1 MR. STAMP: Thank you, Your Honours.
2 Q. You said, Mr. Veljkovic, that there was an armoured personnel
3 carrier outside the police station on the 26th. To which unit did it
4 belong?
5 A. The APC
6 any certainty that that vehicle was there solely for the purposes of the
7 special unit of the PJP.
8 Q. Can I take it from your answer that it was sometimes used for the
9 purposes of the special unit of the PJP?
10 A. In what sense? Special units are one thing and PJPs are another.
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: Line 22 should read
12 special unit, of the PJP. Basically meaning the same thing. The special
13 unit, the PJP.
14 MR. STAMP: I see.
15 Q. So it was sometimes used by the PJP?
16 A. I can't say with any certainty whether it was or was not used by
17 the PJP.
18 Q. Thank you. If we could move on to something else, and I'm
19 referring to page 33 of today's record. You were asked by counsel about
20 the persons who were present with you when you went with the truck to
21 load bodies. And you read from what you had said to the investigating
22 judge. And while you were being questioned about it, you think -- I
23 think you said you might have been confused then about the persons who
24 travelled with you, and you referred to your first statement. I would,
25 with the leave of the Court, like to give you a copy of your first
Page 7181
1 statement and just ask if this assists you to remember who went with you
2 and who you saw at the cafe when you arrived there.
3 MR. STAMP: If I could briefly show him this first statement,
4 this statement, Your Honours.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
6 MR. STAMP: And copy for the Defence.
7 THE INTERPRETER: Would the counsel please switch off his
8 microphone when not using it.
9 JUDGE PARKER: The date of this statement, Mr. Stamp?
10 MR. STAMP: This is a statement of the 27th of February, 2003
11 JUDGE PARKER: Made to?
12 MR. STAMP: To the MUP, the MUP officials at the MUP office in
13 Belgrade
14 Q. Do you recall giving that statement, Mr. Veljkovic?
15 A. I do. That was my first statement.
16 Q. And I think you signed all the pages of that statement as well?
17 A. Correct.
18 Q. And if you look at the last page and the last two sentences, you
19 attested that:
20 "This statement has been read out to me, I hereby verify its
21 accuracy and accept it as mine and I am therefore signing it as such. I
22 also state that during the interview conducted by the MUP officials of
23 the Republic of Serbia
24 pressure."
25 That is what you attested to?
Page 7182
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. I just want to remind you of what is at -- is on the statement.
3 If you could look at the last sentence of page 2. And my question will
4 be: Does this remind you of who was it who accompanied you when you went
5 with the truck to pick up bodies?
6 But I want you to just go through it first before answering that
7 question and try to remember. The last sentence of page 2, can you read
8 that sentence, please.
9 A. "After that, the aforementioned policemen were in pursuit, still
10 shooting at the people fleeing. Commander Repanovic ordered me and
11 Ivica Novkovic who was a reservist who hailed from Dubovo, from
12 Prokuplje, to collect the bodies, he also said that a truck was to come
13 to load the bodies onto it."
14 Is that the sentence you had in mind on page 2?
15 Q. And could you move to page 3. And just read the first sentence
16 but a little bit more slowly now, a little bit more slowly because it has
17 to be translated. The first sentence of page 3.
18 A. "When Ivica Novkovic and I arrived close to the house which used
19 to house the OSCE, a truck came from the direction of Restane with two
20 uniformed people inside. I think they were reservists from Suva Reka.
21 The names of those persons in the truck is something I do not know. I do
22 think I could recognise them if shown their photographs."
23 Q. Now, if you move on to the first -- to the second paragraph of
24 page 3 and read the first two sentences. Or could you just read slowly
25 the second paragraph of page 3.
Page 7183
1 A. "We boarded the truck and set out for Lestane [as interpreted].
2 We arrived at the first intersection when the truck made a U-turn.
3 Ivica Novkovic and I were following the truck on foot, loading the bodies
4 close to the intersection. There were five or six of them. I remember
5 there were some corpses that we could not load onto the truck because
6 they were too heavy. We left those behind.
7 There was a carpenter's shop on Miladina Popovica Street
8 the crossroads. We didn't take all of the corpses from the shop. There
9 was another charred body at the entrance of the shop. After that, the
10 truck went back to the OUP building. Ivica Novkovic and I followed. I
11 think when passed by the former OSCE house where we loaded some ten
12 bodies, we left some of them behind as well. Then the truck turned
13 towards the small businesses centre along the main road between Prizren
14 and Pristina, whereas Ivica Novkovic and I went on foot towards the
15 direction from which we could hear shots and hand-grenade explosions."
16 Q. Thank you. Could you also read the next paragraph slowly. It's
17 a short paragraph.
18 A. "When we arrived before a pizzeria at the small businesses
19 centre, the name of which I no longer remember, but I do know that it was
20 across the street from the Metohija Vino company, we came across a parked
21 truck, the trailer of which was turned toward the pizzeria entrance. I
22 saw the policeman Miroslav Tanovic and Petkovic as well as a policeman by
23 the nickname of Tzece [phoen] he stood next to a kiosk vis-a-vis the
24 municipal building at the small businesses centre. We also found
25 Dr. Boban Vuksanovic."
Page 7184
1 Q. Having read what you said in your first statement, do you now
2 recall who it was who travelled with you when you went with the truck on
3 the road to pick up the bodies?
4 A. It was such a long time ago. I cannot say with a hundred
5 per cent certainty that Ivica Novkovic and another colleague were with me
6 as of the moment when we started loading the body that was in the
7 courtyard of the OUP in Suva Reka and until we finished. Still, I stand
8 by what I said and that is that I began forgetting things, and that the
9 statement is as I had it originally, that is to say that myself and the
10 two reservists went towards Restanski Put to load the bodies.
11 Whether there were some other corpses that belonged to the
12 Berisha family and whether these Albanians may have been attacking the
13 police and killed in response, that is something I cannot say any longer.
14 But I would still like to be stand by what I said.
15 Q. I'm not talking or asking you to focus on the bodies now. Just
16 the police accompanying you. You note in this statement that you -- on
17 many occasions, you only refer to Ivica Novkovic as the one person who
18 accompanied you. Does that not assist you to remember?
19 A. It does assist me to remember, but - because I remember that he
20 refused to load any bodies - but I stand by what I said about the other
21 reserve policemen, that he was there with me loading the bodies because I
22 could not have possibly done it on my own.
23 MR. STAMP: Can we move into private session, Your Honour. I
24 just have one question I'd like to ask in private session.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, private.
Page 7185
1 [Private session]
2 (redacted)
3 (redacted)
4 (redacted)
5 (redacted)
6 (redacted)
7 (redacted)
8 (redacted)
9 (redacted)
10 (redacted)
11 (redacted)
12 (redacted)
13 (redacted)
14 (redacted)
15 (redacted)
16 (redacted)
17 (redacted)
18 (redacted)
19 (redacted)
20 (redacted)
21 (redacted)
22 (redacted)
23 (redacted)
24 (redacted)
25 (redacted)
Page 7186
1 (redacted)
2 (redacted)
3 (redacted)
4 (redacted)
5 (redacted)
6 (redacted)
7 (redacted)
8 (redacted)
9 [Open session]
10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session.
11 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
12 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, Mr. Stamp was
13 critical of my conduct and yet here we see for the second time he is
14 using a document for which there is no translation, and secondly, he used
15 a document that was not used earlier during the examination-in-chief, so
16 I would like to be given the opportunity to put to the witness some
17 issues that are in this new document after the break.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp, do you suggest this document was used
19 during cross-examination?
20 MR. STAMP: No, Your Honour, I did not suggest that it was used
21 during cross-examination. The witness just referred to his first
22 statement in a context as if to suggest it might well be said that that
23 would explain what he was saying. This is a statement that had been
24 disclosed to Defence some time ago. I just brought a courtesy copy for
25 them. And there is a translation.
Page 7187
1 JUDGE PARKER: Your submission is that you merely referred to a
2 statement to see if it assisted the witness's recollection?
3 MR. STAMP: Indeed, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE PARKER: Is there a reason you didn't do that in your
5 examination-in-chief?
6 MR. STAMP: It did not arise then. What I did arose from what
7 the witness said in cross-examination in response to a question from a
8 friends about the order of the statements and the statements that were
9 given. This is something that arose entirely in cross-examination.
10 [Trial Chamber confers]
11 JUDGE PARKER: We have run out of time on the tape. So we must
12 adjourn now, and we will continue at 10 minutes past 1.00.
13 [The witness stands down]
14 --- Recess taken at 12.42 p.m.
15 --- On resuming at 1.12 p.m.
16 JUDGE PARKER: In the view of the Chamber, strictly the reference
17 made to the statement was not to the contents of the statement by
18 Mr. Djurdjic. The extent to which reference was made by Mr. Stamp in
19 having the witness refresh his memory was such that in the view of the
20 Chamber, it would be appropriate to allow Mr. Djurdjic, given his limited
21 use of the -- or reference to the statement, to be able now to renew his
22 cross-examination to deal with any aspect of the statement. That, in
23 turn, may enliven a further opportunity to re-exam, Mr. Stamp. We will
24 see.
25 [The witness takes the stand]
Page 7188
1 JUDGE PARKER: Yes Mr. Djurdjic.
2 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
3 Further Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:
4 Q. I have been given another opportunity thanks to Mr. Stamp to
5 discuss with you your statement provided to the administration for
6 fighting organised crime on the 27th of February, 2003. Would you please
7 take a look at the last page of this statement because you have gone
8 through the whole statement with Mr. Stamp, and tell me whether you see
9 at the end of this statement that any mention is made of this woman that
10 you told me about beforehand?
11 A. The whom who survived the shooting?
12 Q. No, the woman who made the phone call to the station. I believe
13 it should be on page 23 or so, so would you take a look at that.
14 A. Well, let me explain it to you. They put questions to me and
15 then they wrote down my answers in a notebook. And when I completed my
16 statement, they said that I had to wait there for them to type the
17 statement over and enter it in the computer, and then I would have to
18 sign the statement. So then I waited for about an hour or so while they
19 wrote down the statement, and then they printed it out and gave it to me
20 to sign.
21 I did not read it at the time, I admit that. I just signed it.
22 And if they chose to omit any mention of this woman who called the
23 station, well, they would know why that is so. I wouldn't know anything
24 about that.
25 Q. All right. Let's not dwell too much on this. Here it says:
Page 7189
1 "This statement has been read over to me and it is true and it
2 reflects my words, and as such I sign it."
3 So in other words, it was read out it to you?
4 A. Well, if I signed the statement and it says there that it was
5 read back to me, then it's probably my error. I probably, in that case,
6 did not want to insist on it and ask them why they didn't enter the
7 portion about the woman who called on the phone. But you see, they also
8 asked me about the murder of a man at the gas station, and I told them
9 that I didn't know of that and it was the first time that I heard of that
10 from them.
11 Q. Mr. Veljkovic, I've already asked you about it, you forgot, I
12 think.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I seek to tender
14 this statement into evidence rather than go over it paragraph by
15 paragraph because I think that it's been read almost in its entirety, and
16 if not, perhaps Mr. Veljkovic could read the third paragraph from the
17 top.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Do you mean the paragraph beginning
19 with once we completed -- "Once we completed loading the bodies we
20 returned to the Suva Reka OUP." All right, I'd start over.
21 "When we finished loading the bodies around 3.00" --
22 JUDGE PARKER: Hold it there for a moment, please. You propose
23 to put a question to the witness about this paragraph? You do, very
24 well, read it if you would.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] "When we finished loading the
Page 7190
1 bodies, around 3.00 p.m.
2 little later, I heard that an order had been issued to the effect that
3 Albanians should not be killed any more, and that it was ordered that we
4 should go from house to house and tell them that they should leave their
5 houses within 30 minutes for Albania
6 killed. I don't know who issued this order."
7 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Thank you, Mr. Veljkovic. Was this part of your statement? Does
9 it reflect correctly the words that you used?
10 A. Yes.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. So I seek
12 again to admit this into evidence, although I'm not quite sure whether it
13 has been translated yet, Your Honours, because I haven't seen it. I
14 didn't see it on the screen either now or when Mr. Stamp was questioning
15 the witness, and if it does not exist, then I suggest that it be marked
16 for identification. Or in the alternative, if we have the translation
17 then -- well, I've just been told by Ms. O'Leary that we do have a
18 translation but apparently it's not been entered into e-court.
19 JUDGE PARKER: The statement we are told has been translated. It
20 will be received as an exhibit.
21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00313.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Stamp, any further re-examination?
23 MR. STAMP: No re-examination further to those questions,
24 Your Honour.
25 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
Page 7191
1 Questioned by the Court:
2 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Mr. Veljkovic, I have a short question for you.
3 This morning
4 page 22, line 13, and the following. You said:
5 "This was a great deal of bodies and there would have been an
6 outbreak if we had left them. If we had left them, there would be many
7 more accused and people prosecuted than there already were."
8 I didn't understand this answer. Perhaps you can explain it a
9 little bit more. What did you mean by that?
10 A. What I meant is that the bodies that were in the pizzeria could
11 not be left there. They had to be buried somewhere to prevent -- to
12 prevent an outbreak of disease. Now, when we left Suva Reka later on,
13 which we did, if it was -- if it was discovered then that people had been
14 killed and had been left behind, there was the possibility that an even
15 greater number of people would be indicted, not only for the killing of
16 these people, but also for not burying their bodies but just leaving them
17 behind. That is what I meant and that is my answer to your question.
18 JUDGE FLUEGGE: Yesterday you were asked about the interview by
19 the investigative judge in Belgrade
20 Chamber that you were frightened or scared in that situation, during your
21 examination there. Can you tell us in which way you have been frightened
22 and what was the reason for that?
23 A. I was anxious and afraid simply because I was fearing for my
24 freedom. When you are called for questioning, you receive a summons as a
25 regular citizens and it is very easy or it might very easily turn into
Page 7192
1 you becoming a suspect. That was the first thing.
2 The second thing is I was afraid also because I felt very
3 uncomfortable testifying against the people who were my co-workers,
4 although, what they did, they did deliberately and with premeditation.
5 But I saw that in this case, many witnesses have been questioned, and I
6 realised that there was nothing that I could conceal. That there was
7 simply, in addition to active policemen, there were also reservists who
8 were called to testify, and of course they would not allow it. They
9 wouldn't let it happen that my testimony jeopardized their freedom.
10 So that was part of the reason why I was afraid and not because
11 your colleague Dilparic was in any way unkind to me or anything to that
12 effect. So that was the sole reason for my feeling of anxiety.
13 JUDGE FLUGGE: Thank you very much.
14 JUDGE BAIRD: When you were following the truck going along the
15 Restanski Put Road --
16 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE BAIRD: Whose decision was it to make the U-turn when you
18 were following the truck?
19 A. The only person there was the driver of the truck. He was the
20 one who made that decision. No one else.
21 JUDGE BAIRD: Did you ask him why he made that decision?
22 A. No.
23 JUDGE BAIRD: Did you want to know?
24 A. No.
25 JUDGE BAIRD: Thank you.
Page 7193
1 JUDGE PARKER: That concludes the questioning for you. You are
2 now free to return to your normal activities, and the Court Officer will
3 show you out. We would thank you for your attendance.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
5 [The witness withdrew]
6 JUDGE PARKER: Now, Mr. Hannis, Mr. Coo, as I understand it, is
7 the next witness.
8 MR. HANNIS: He is, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE PARKER: His evidence is unlikely to be brief.
10 MR. HANNIS: I think it's unlikely to be this brief. And I did
11 want to raise a matter of scheduling with you in light of the point we
12 are at this time. I would prefer if we could do him in one go as it
13 were. Because of the nature of his evidence, I think it would be more
14 efficient if we can do him in the same day.
15 If we start now, I understand you have a witness tomorrow who
16 needs to be on and done and I think then we would have to put Mr. Coo off
17 to maybe follow late tomorrow afternoon or some other day. I would
18 prefer if we could just recess today and reschedule Mr. Coo for another
19 time when it's mutually convenient to everyone.
20 I had some conversation with my learned friend Mr. Djordjevic
21 during the most recent break about that. I think the later he is
22 scheduled, actually the shorter his evidence may be because some exhibits
23 that are on the list I have for him may come in through other witnesses
24 before we get there. So, in essence, that's my request at this point in
25 time.
Page 7194
1 JUDGE PARKER: Well, we certainly see that to commence him now
2 for just over 15 minutes is not going to be very practical, and the
3 witness scheduled for tomorrow is a witness of some substance. We
4 certainly anticipate he will finish within the day, but again, it might
5 be a situation somewhat similar to today. So to complicate matters, the
6 Prosecution planning is for a series of witnesses, three, to give
7 evidence by videolink Monday and Tuesday, even it was thought perhaps
8 Wednesday, but we would think it ought to be possible in two days to
9 finish those three witnesses.
10 So the earliest opportunity would be the last days of next week
11 or even at some later time if other witnesses are available that would
12 fill out the time profitably next week.
13 MR. HANNIS: Yes, Your Honour. I have a personal interest, I
14 would like to appear before you all again and I'm actually leaving
15 tomorrow and won't be in town and then I'm out Wednesday, Thursday, and
16 Friday the following week. And I understand that the week of July 20th
17 you are only sitting Monday, Tuesday, and part of Wednesday. So it may
18 be that I'll see if Mr. Coo can be available August 17th or some date
19 shortly thereafter. And try to schedule him then if that's convenient to
20 him and to you and Mr. Djordjevic.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Well, thank you for that, Mr. Hannis. We look
22 forward to hearing you again at some time. We will have to content
23 ourselves in patience waiting for that event. Mr. Djurdjic, I'm sure,
24 will learn from Ms. O'Leary of our deliberations and reasons.
25 We certainly indicate to counsel that the witness tomorrow, we
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1 would expect to be finished in the course of tomorrow and all counsel
2 should keep that in their time planning and that we would anticipate on
3 Wednesday of next week to reach the next non-videolink witness.
4 That being so, we therefore adjourn for the day to resume
5 tomorrow at 9.00.
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.31 p.m.
7 to be reconvened on Friday, the 10th day of
8 July, 2009, at 9.00 a.m.
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