Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 195

1 Thursday, 2 November 2006

2 [Status Conference]

3 [Open session]

4 [The accused entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 7.57 a.m.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good morning, everybody.

7 May the registrar please call the case.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. The case is

9 IT-98-29/1-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragomir Milosevic.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 Mr. Milosevic, can you follow the proceedings in a language that

12 you understand?

13 THE ACCUSED: [Microphone not activated].

14 THE INTERPRETER: No microphone for the accused.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Milosevic, can you repeat yourself,

16 please. And, Mr. Milosevic, you may be seated; you don't have to stand

17 up. Can you answer me now, Mr. Milosevic. Can you understand the

18 proceedings in a language that you understand?

19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I can.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Although, the volume is too high up.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Can you hear better now? Is that okay now,

23 Mr. Milosevic?

24 THE ACCUSED: Okay, okay.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.

Page 196

1 May we please have the appearances for the Prosecution.

2 MR. WAESPI: Good morning, Your Honour. Stefan Waespi, assisted

3 by Manoj Sachdeva, John Docherty, and Jasmina Bosnjakovic.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

5 Appearances for the Defence. Yes, Mr. Tapuskovic.

6 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, everyone. Your

7 Honour, my name is Branislav Tapuskovic, attorney-at-law, appearing on

8 behalf of Mr. Dragomir Milosevic. With me is my co-counsel Branislava

9 Isailovic, attorney-at-law from Paris.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Tapuskovic. Thank you.

11 Now, if we may move on to the reasons for the conference. This is

12 a Status Conference which has been convened pursuant to Rule 65 bis of the

13 Tribunal's Rules of Procedure and Evidence. The last Status Conference in

14 this case was held on the 10th of July, 2006. According to the Rules, a

15 Status Conference shall take place within 120 days of the last Status

16 Conference to organise exchanges between the parties, to ensure an

17 expeditious preparation for trial, to review the status of the accused's

18 case, and to allow the accused an opportunity to raise issues in relation

19 thereto, including his mental and physical condition.

20 On the question of outstanding --

21 THE ACCUSED: [Microphone not activated].

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon. It looks like there's no

23 translation for Mr. Milosevic. Is there any ...

24 The B/C/S booth, which side is it? Is it possible to get the

25 technicians to help, or what could be done?

Page 197

1 Can we just try to say something to him and let's see if he hears.

2 THE INTERPRETER: Mr. Milosevic has confirmed that he's receiving

3 interpretation in B/C/S.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. We may now proceed.

5 May we move on to the item called "Outstanding Motions." There

6 are no pending motions at the present moment; am I correct? Will you

7 confirm that, Mr. Waespi?

8 MR. WAESPI: Yes, that's correct, Mr. President.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: And you also do so, Mr. Tapuskovic?

10 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] In essence, I believe there are

11 no major outstanding motions at this moment.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Tapuskovic.

13 Okay. Then the 65 ter filings. At the last Status Conference,

14 the Defence declared that the translations of 424 exhibits had still not

15 been provided to them, in particular, two witness statements which they

16 claimed had already been translated and were available to be provided to

17 them. The Prosecution suggested that the Defence counsel should,

18 themselves, submit these documents for translation. The Pre-Trial Judge

19 requested that the Prosecution check for the two particular witness

20 statements and take responsibility for submitting the other documents for

21 translation in order to assist the Defence.

22 The question is: What progress has been made on the status of

23 this issue, Mr. Waespi?

24 MR. WAESPI: Yes, thank you, Your Honour. Yes, indeed, at the

25 last Status Conference, David Akerson undertook the obligation to initiate

Page 198

1 the proceedings to translate these famous 424 documents. We did so and we

2 are pleased to announce that, at the end of this month, these 424

3 documents will be available in B/C/S.

4 In relation to the witness statements, I understand, from reading

5 the transcripts, that there are in fact six witnesses, and four witnesses

6 were named specifically by Mr. Tapuskovic with numbers. And that's on

7 page 174 of the transcript of the last Status Conference. And in the

8 meantime, we checked our records and we did disclose what we thought were

9 these six remaining witness statements in both languages, English and

10 B/C/S. And we will be meeting after the Status Conference, and the

11 Defence can confirm to us that this, indeed, happened.

12 So, in our perspective, we complied with the undertaking we did

13 last time.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Waespi.

15 Mr. Tapuskovic, can you confirm that?

16 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I must raise this

17 issue yesterday again, this first question pertaining to translation. I

18 am very satisfied, as counsel for Dragomir Milosevic, that we can receive

19 these 400-plus documents by the end of the month so that we could forward

20 them to Dragomir Milosevic himself, after which we, of course, expect

21 certain comments and suggestions on his part, without which we cannot

22 work.

23 We all know what is foreseen by Rule 66 of the Rules of Procedure

24 and Evidence, but when it comes to translations, I always used the Statute

25 as my benchmark, since this has precedence over the Rules. And Judge

Page 199

1 Antonetti, on the 12th of December last year, stated that Article 21,

2 paragraph 4(A), of the Statute needs to be respected; this being that the

3 accused can be notified in a timely fashion and as regards the reason for

4 the indictment against him in a language he understands. So not only

5 testimonies or statements, but rather all the documentation needs to be

6 translated to the language of the accused so that he can provide comments

7 to his Defence. In principle, therefore, I need to insist on that rule

8 and that article.

9 As regards the statements we are discussing --

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: You may proceed.

11 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] As regards the statements, I can

12 confirm, Your Honour, that we have received a notification a few days ago,

13 according to which the names of the witnesses have been identified, the

14 names of the witnesses that were disclosed to us. However, three

15 witnesses are outstanding; these are 033, 046, and 111. Also, there is

16 another witness whose statement has not been disclosed to us. According

17 to our information, this is witness number 4. And a few statements of

18 Bosnian citizens. However, I believe that we will be able to resolve this

19 during the meeting we are going to have with the Prosecutor so as not to

20 take up too much of your time here.

21 For the moment, I believe this should suffice to address the

22 issue.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Mr. Tapuskovic, I'm a little

24 concerned that it looks like, in what you said, you're confusing 65 ter

25 filings with 66(A) filings, and I would like us to try and separate these

Page 200

1 two so that we deal with them separately. Can you very briefly, maybe in

2 just one word, confirm what Mr. Waespi said in relation to the 65 ter

3 filings; in other words, the 424 exhibits that he says you will be able to

4 get within the next few days, by the end of the month, and the translation

5 of some of those statements. You confirm that, what he said?

6 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Everything I said concerns

7 the list according to the 65 ter.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Now let's, then, move to the

9 Rule 66 disclosures.

10 At the last Status Conference, the Defence declared that it was

11 still missing six witness statements. Now, I think you probably have

12 covered them already in what you said, Mr. Tapuskovic. Anyway, the

13 parties then agreed to meet after the Status Conference to determine which

14 documents were missing and to resolve that dispute, okay? The Trial

15 Chamber has been copied on correspondence from the Prosecution, letters

16 dated the 16th of October and the 26th of October, 2006, in which the

17 Defence was informed of the identities of a number of witnesses and

18 provided with their statements. You have actually referred to them now,

19 as you spoke, and you have mentioned that witnesses W033, W046, and W111

20 are still outstanding. In the correspondence, I note that the Prosecution

21 concedes that and they undertaken, as soon as possible, to provide you

22 with those witness statements.

23 Are there any -- barring those three, are there any Rule 66(A)(i)

24 and (ii) matters which remain outstanding. From you, Mr. Waespi?

25 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Your Honour. One big issue is the Defence

Page 201

1 request of, originally, last November and confirmed in a letter of 24th

2 March of this year. In this request, the Defence wanted many, many

3 documents that relate to paramilitaries that were active in Sarajevo

4 during the relevant time, and the Defence gave us search criteria and the

5 OTP conducted these huge searches. Again, we are pleased to announce that

6 we were informed by our technical people that these searches are available

7 and will be put on case-specific EDS to be picked up by the Defence.

8 But I have to tell you that these are -- that's an amazing amount

9 of data that's being made available to the Defence, and we are told -- I

10 think it's a range of, I think, 12 gigabytes, or something, amounting to,

11 I believe, more than 12.000 documents. But, again, that's being done

12 according to the wishes of the Defence and they can -- you know, it's made

13 available to them.

14 A number of people from the OTP have assisted the technical people

15 from the Tribunal. I remember that three people worked 100 per cent

16 during one month to put together this disclosure. So, as I said before,

17 it will be made available to the Defence in the next few days, these

18 12.000.

19 There are other parts of this huge request by the Defence which

20 are witness statements and Rule 70 materials. These, obviously - I'm sure

21 you understand, Your Honour, and the Defence - cannot be put to the

22 Defence as such. So we from the OTP have to individually look at these

23 searches and maybe make it available to the Defence, perhaps in a more

24 specific way. For instance, they could come to our offices and perhaps

25 sit on a computer and inspect it, as the Rule 66(B) says.

Page 202

1 So, in short, we have finished with these 12.000 which --

2 documents which can be given to Defence; and the second part, and that's,

3 I think, about 8 or 9.000 documents, we can talk to the Defence how we

4 actually proceed in relation to those.

5 So we are making a lot of progress on this, Mr. President.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: If I may just ask, before you sit down, Mr. Waespi,

7 are these documents Rule 66 kinds of documents?

8 MR. WAESPI: I looked at the correspondence, Your Honour, and the

9 Defence had labelled it under Rule 68, what they considered to be

10 exculpatory. In a way, it's a --

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Did you say the Defence had labelled it or the

12 Prosecution had labelled it?

13 MR. WAESPI: No, Mr. President, the Defence had labelled it under

14 Rule 68.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Oh, okay.

16 MR. WAESPI: And, in a certain sense, it's a specific request

17 coming from the Defence under 66(B). I don't think it's important to

18 distinguish that because most documents are, anyway, in a language the

19 Defence and the accused will understand.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. Thank you very much.

21 Mr. Tapuskovic, you confirm? We're dealing with disclosures in

22 terms of Rule 66(A)(i) and (ii).

23 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I cannot confirm this. We asked

24 for the documents my learned friend has mentioned, but we didn't discuss

25 whether this was under Rule 66 or 68. We never stipulated that. We know

Page 203

1 that such documentation is in existence, but we cannot know whether they

2 fall under Rule 66 or 68 before we are able to see them. We wanted to see

3 everything they have on paramilitary activities, but we don't know what

4 rule it falls under.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I just interrupt you there, Mr. Tapuskovic; I'm

6 very sorry to do so. Mr. Waespi indicates that the documentation, in any

7 case, is in B/C/S, so that for your purposes it should be okay,

8 irrespective of what label it goes under. It will be in a language that

9 the accused understands. It will be coming. So even if you dispute that

10 you had labelled the request as a 68 request, that doesn't really matter,

11 okay? That resolves the issue; am I right?

12 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [No interpretation].

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. Do you then accept that you will be

14 getting these documents - I beg your pardon - in the next few days? Thank

15 you very much.

16 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] I agree, Your Honour. Thank you.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Anything else you would like to raise under Rule

18 66? Your co-counsel --

19 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] My colleague will do that.

20 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. We have

21 something that could relate to Rule 66 or 68, whatever the number of the

22 rule. The problem is as follows: The documents made available to the

23 Defence through the electronic system are very difficult for us to

24 consult, for the team of the Defence, since most of the members of our

25 team are in Belgrade. I raised the issue with the Prosecutor. Therefore,

Page 204

1 for us to consult these documents through this electronic system is

2 something that is extremely difficult or even impossible, if we do it from

3 Belgrade.

4 So, personally speaking, I'm in Paris, so I can avail myself of

5 that opportunity, can use the system. Therefore, even if I'm not a case

6 manager in this case, I can look at the documents. But for Mr.

7 Tapuskovic, it's impossible to do so. So it's as if the documents had not

8 been disclosed at all to us. Therefore, that's an issue I would like to

9 raise with the Prosecutor during our meeting. I've prepared a list of the

10 documents and I'm going to ask for these documents to be disclosed in the

11 classical manner, in hard copy, for my co-counsel to be able to have a

12 look at these documents. I'm going to prepare a list of selected

13 documents; it's a shorter list. So the EDS problem is still there; it has

14 not been resolved yet. I'd like to raise this matter with you.

15 Thank you.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Ms. Isailovic. If I might

17 just ask, what actually is the problem that makes it impossible for

18 Mr. Tapuskovic, in Belgrade, to read documents in electronic form?

19 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. Let me give

20 you a quick explanation. The problem is that the providers, the internet

21 providers, in Belgrade provide only very slow communication, so the lines

22 are extremely slow, and if you use the electronic system it takes forever.

23 It takes so long that you cannot really conduct any decent research. And

24 I can tell you about it because I tried, myself, using the system in

25 Belgrade. If you want to conduct a simple research to obtain a small

Page 205

1 number of specific documents, it might take you hours.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

3 Do you have any comment to make on that, Mr. Waespi?

4 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President. I think the important issue is

5 that, as you say, Mr. President, the Defence becomes used to that. And

6 this is more for these bigger requests they made, like these 12.000

7 documents. There is no way these 12.000 documents can be made available

8 in any other form than on the EDS. So we have to address that, and I'm

9 sure we can do that.

10 But in the past times, the Prosecution has always disclosed

11 issues, for instance, just this week, on CD and DVD. We made quite a

12 number of items available to the Defence, and they are being shipped to --

13 in fact, to Mr. Tapuskovic in Belgrade. And I take it that Mr. Tapuskovic

14 and his assistants are able to open these CDs and work with those.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just to interrupt. I didn't want to expose my

16 ignorance in computers, but I would have thought that if it's provided in

17 CD or DVD form, you don't need the internet.

18 MR. WAESPI: That's correct, Mr. President.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: And therefore, the research can be done very

20 quickly, as fast as the CD is able to play. Is that correct?

21 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. You're

22 entirely right. That's what we want; that's what we asked for.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Fine. Then Mr. Waespi says you'll get that. Is

24 that okay?

25 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] We are not asking anything more

Page 206

1 than that.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Ms. Isailovic.

3 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: That then disposes of that item, I believe.

5 The next item would then be the Rule 68 disclosure. At the last

6 conference the Defence again raised the issue that all documents submitted

7 to them by the Prosecution had been submitted under both Rule 66 and Rule

8 68. The Defence claimed that this posed problems in distinguishing which

9 material the Prosecution considers to be exculpatory. The Prosecution

10 contested this, arguing that some material has been disclosed specifically

11 as Rule 68. The parties were ordered to confer after the Status

12 Conference to sort this matter out, and the Trial Chamber would like to --

13 well, the Pre-Trial Chamber would like to find out what the status is.

14 Mr. Waespi.

15 MR. WAESPI: Thank you, Your Honour. Indeed, since the last

16 Status Conference, we have been disclosing materials exclusively under

17 Rule 68, where we were sure that these documents or witness statements are

18 exclusive under Rule 68. But there are a number of items which, in our

19 assessment, relate to both incriminatory and exculpatory, and there,

20 obviously, we say it affects both rules. So wherever we can say that it's

21 exclusively Rule 68, we continue to do so.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

23 Mr. Tapuskovic, any point?

24 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] What my learned friend, the

25 Prosecutor, has said is quite correct. We have now set this course and I

Page 207

1 believe that we will continue to proceed along these lines in the future.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Tapuskovic.

3 I would imagine, then, that this was the Rule 68 disclosure

4 material issue.

5 Can we then move to the question of agreed facts. At the last

6 conference, the Prosecution requested expedited action by the Defence on

7 the Prosecution's proposal of a list of potentially non-disputed facts

8 filed on the 10th of May, 2006. The Defence submitted that they would

9 move expeditiously on this issue, to the best of their ability, but did

10 not provide a specific date by which they would respond -- when they would

11 respond. The parties agreed to confer after the Status Conference to

12 resolve the issue.

13 What progress has been made in this matter, Mr. Waespi?

14 MR. WAESPI: Thank you, Your Honour. The parties, indeed, met

15 after the last Status Conference -- I'm not sure, though, what progress

16 has been made. According to our correspondence, I believe that the ball

17 is in the court of the Defence. So rather than try to summarise what I

18 believe the status is --

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Maybe, before you sit down, you can tell us whether

20 you have had any response from the Defence to agree or disagree with your

21 proposed list of agreed facts.

22 MR. WAESPI: I don't think so, Mr. President.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: It looks, then, from what you say, like the

24 situation is where we were at the last Status Conference.

25 MR. WAESPI: Yes. And I believe Mr. Tapuskovic explained well the

Page 208

1 position he finds himself in, in dealing with this issue, and I believe he

2 also linked it to the translation of these important documents, these

3 famous 424 documents, which allows him and, indeed, his client to look

4 more in an informed fashion at the proposal of the Prosecution.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

6 Yes, Ms. Isailovic.

7 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. Yes, it's

8 true, we are faced with the problem of the translation of these documents,

9 but this problem is going to be resolved very soon, as we know. But, on

10 the other hand, during the meeting we had after the conference, we were

11 told that the indictment might be amended. We took note of this

12 information, and we are still expecting for this amendment of the

13 indictment.

14 On the other hand, in our pre-trial brief of the 27th of February,

15 2006, we tried to shed some light on a number of issues and to accept some

16 of the facts submitted in the pre-trial brief of the Prosecution. And we

17 are not only talking about facts that we accepted, but we also accepted

18 the application of the law that, during the Galic trial, had been the

19 object of a number of -- a discussion that had been very much discussed

20 and challenged. Therefore, when it came to the application of the Geneva

21 Protocols, we accepted, we, as a Defence team, accepted the application of

22 the Geneva Protocols. Therefore, I believe that we have come a long way.

23 We have accepted a great deal of what is stated in the indictment and in

24 the further submissions.

25 Thank you very much.

Page 209

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

2 Do you have any disputes with that, Mr. Waespi?

3 MR. WAESPI: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour. Yes, that's correct,

4 what the Defence said. They have acknowledged a few points in their

5 pre-trial brief, and we are very grateful for that.

6 In relation to the proposed amended indictment, I was waiting for

7 an opportunity, according to your agenda, to address you, Mr. President,

8 and I can do that at any time.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated].

10 To the extent that the amended indictment is relevant to the issue

11 at hand, maybe you could address the Chamber, but I can understand that if

12 the intention is to amend the indictment, then there's no way of -- we can

13 talk about agreed facts because we don't know what the indictment is.

14 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Your Honour. On the other hand, as I will

15 explain later, the indictment is nothing new. There are no new charges,

16 no new counts. It's just a little bit in a different format. It adds a

17 few issues, but it -- I don't think it affects the Defence's ability to

18 agree.

19 There is more, though, on the background, the career, of the

20 accused, which we hope, of course, the Defence might agree to. So in that

21 sense, I believe the Defence is right to perhaps wait a little bit until

22 the proposed amended indictment indeed has been accepted by the Trial

23 Chamber, which is, of course, the next step.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: However, there is still the point of the proposed

25 list by the Prosecution. There must be a set of facts which, I would

Page 210

1 imagine, it should be possible for the Defence to either admit or deny,

2 irrespective of whether or not they have an amended indictment.

3 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President, that's correct. It's, I believe,

4 40 pages of facts. And we are happy, ready, at any time, to sit down with

5 the Defence. I take it that will be after the end of the November, when

6 the Defence has received these 424 documents and has a chance to raise it

7 with their client. So I guess December might be a good time to sit down

8 and go over these 40 pages.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Would it then be okay for the Chamber to

10 order that the parties do sit down between now and the next Status

11 Conference to resolve this issue? I see the Defence team is nodding their

12 heads. I take it that means they agree. And I take that your nodding of

13 the head, Mr. Waespi, also means that you agree. Thank you so much. We

14 will then leave that matter on that basis.

15 Are there any other matters that the parties would like to raise?

16 That sort of bring us to the end of the matters that the Chamber wanted to

17 raise.

18 So any matters from your side, Mr. Waespi?

19 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President. The Prosecution, as you heard a

20 moment ago, communicated to the Defence a couple weeks ago that we are in

21 the process of amending the indictment. I would just like to briefly

22 elaborate on the Prosecution's intent in this regard.

23 The proposed amended indictment provides, in our belief, a more

24 clear, precise, and succinct description of the Prosecution's case than

25 the initial indictment, which dates back to 1999. This greater clarity

Page 211

1 will be of assistance to both Your Honours and the Defence and the

2 accused.

3 In conformity with case law of this Tribunal developed since the

4 initial indictment was approved, as I said, in 1999, the proposed amended

5 indictment also narrows down the modes of liability under which the

6 accused has been charge and pleads with greater specificity material facts

7 concerning the acts and conduct of the accused.

8 The proposed indictment lays no new charges - I think that's very

9 important, Your Honour - against the accused, nor does it contain any new

10 allegations of fact. So it's really a new form but basically old content.

11 So we believe that there is no delay in the proceedings. We can just go

12 ahead as planned. We will be ready fairly soon, maybe in the next couple

13 of days, and we'll, of course, Your Honour, ask for leave to amend the old

14 indictment and the Defence has a chance to respond that.

15 At the same time, perhaps a little bit later, we are also amending

16 the -- proposing to amend the exhibit list. We are working hard on that.

17 As you know, as the Defence knows, the OTP has been made available a large

18 collection called "Banja Luka Collection," which contains important

19 documents. In fact, they are called "SRK Archives" That's archives that

20 contain documents relevant to the corps the accused had been leading. We

21 have a team down there looking at these documents and they continue to do

22 so. And the fruits of these documents, we propose, Mr. President, will be

23 added to the exhibit list.

24 There are other documents which came to our attention. Some of

25 them we've had for a while and we have been consistently informing the

Page 212

1 Defence of the existence of these documents. Most of them are being

2 disclosed, and we told the Defence specifically that we might be adding

3 them to the exhibit list.

4 The third motion which we are contemplating, Your Honour, is a

5 motion to add witnesses; not many, but there are a few, also some related

6 to these new documents; investigators who might provide, if necessary,

7 information about the chain of custody of these documents; other witnesses

8 whom we recently talked to whom we will ask leave, Mr. President, under

9 Rule 66(A)(ii), the last sentence, to add to the original list of

10 witnesses.

11 At the same time, Mr. President, we are reviewing our original

12 list of witnesses - I think there are 140 witnesses - and we will

13 certainly be dropping witnesses from that list and we will inform the

14 Defence, as soon as we decide to do so, about that so they can make their

15 arrangements.

16 So these are the three motions that will be forthcoming fairly

17 soon.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Waespi.

19 Mr. Tapuskovic, any comment?

20 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I'm very glad that

21 the Prosecution intends to make the indictment more concise and to make

22 the work of all of us on the indictment much easier, meaning the Defence

23 team and the accused, Dragomir Milosevic. But what I hear means that

24 important searches are being conducted and we also, as the Defence team,

25 are gathering our own evidence. But this means that the Prosecution still

Page 213

1 intends to carry out a substantial amount of investigative work, and so

2 based on that we will have to adapt what we do.

3 I am emphasising this because I believe we need to also pay

4 attention to Article 20 of the Tribunal's Statute, which also calls for

5 expeditious work. At this point in time, with all due respect, I must, in

6 a way, kindly ask the Trial Chamber to do what it can on its part to speed

7 up the entire procedure so that we at least have some idea of when the

8 trial would be able to start, because in this situation, this is something

9 that does need to be addressed. We do need to pay heed to Article 20 of

10 the Statute. We are expecting an amended indictment, so we have to see --

11 I don't believe that we will have any objections, precisely for the

12 reasons that I have mentioned. But I believe at this point in time this

13 is a question that needs to be dealt with, the question as it relates to

14 Article 20 of the Statute.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: If I understand you correctly, Mr. Tapuskovic, are

16 you asking that the Prosecution be put on terms? In other words, are you

17 asking that the Prosecution be given deadlines by when they are supposed

18 to do the outstanding things that they have been saying they will be

19 doing? I would imagine that what is good for the goose would also be good

20 for the gander.

21 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, of course, Your Honour. We

22 do need to take that into account, but it would be good to have some sort

23 of deadline so that we could orient ourselves. At the moment we are

24 working without any funding from the registry. We are receiving vast

25 amounts of material, we are constantly on the road, so we are investing a

Page 214

1 lot of effort as it relates to exhibits and other things. So it would be

2 good to know some kind of deadline, some sort of frameworks, within which

3 the job can be completed; and also we need to take into account the

4 provisions of Article 20 of the Statute.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you able to make specific proposals on the

6 deadlines, on what issues you would like deadlines and by when you would

7 like to have the deadline? Then we can put it to the Prosecution to find

8 out whether they are able to meet that. Like, they've talked about

9 amending the indictment, amending the exhibit list, and adding more

10 witnesses to deal mainly with chain of custody and other things. Any

11 specific suggestions you have on the deadline you would like placed on

12 them?

13 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I am not in favour

14 of rigorous deadlines, but I would like attention to be paid to all the

15 matters that I have just raised so that we have some idea of when the

16 proceedings will be able to start. I am not really advocating some sort

17 of strict deadline that would make it more difficult for both of the sides

18 to work, but I'm just making an appeal, with your help, to do as much as

19 we can so that we can start with the trial as soon as possible. This is

20 my position.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you happy with the time-lines suggested by

22 Mr. Waespi that maybe by the end of November, when the Defence will have

23 received the famous 424 documents, you will then have had an opportunity

24 to discuss them with your client. And there would be some activity

25 between -- during December between the parties by way of meetings, and

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1 hopefully by that time also the amendments will have been accomplished and

2 you can sort them out, if they are not accomplished, in those meetings.

3 And we can look forward maybe to the parties having resolved any

4 outstanding issues by January 2007. Would that be a fair arrangement for

5 you?

6 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I believe that that

7 is an absolutely fair arrangement. I think that we ought to do our best

8 to actually proceed as you have suggested.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Would that be fair to the Prosecution, Mr. Waespi?

10 MR. WAESPI: Yes, Mr. President, and I can commit ourselves to

11 certainly filing the amended indictment and the motion to add exhibits

12 within this month, but it will be earlier.

13 Just in terms of adding exhibits, as you know, Mr. President, and

14 as the Defence knows, that's a continuing exercise. We are certainly

15 making mistakes; we might be missing some exhibits which we propose to add

16 later. So we do our best to complete this adding of exhibits by now.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Then we're looking at

18 sometime in January, then, to hear progress on these outstanding issues,

19 okay? Thank you very much.

20 Any other matter, Mr. Waespi?

21 MR. WAESPI: No, Your Honour.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

23 Mr. Tapuskovic, any matters that the Defence would like to raise

24 which have not been raised so far?

25 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, thank you very

Page 216

1 much. I think that we have dealt with all the key matters.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

3 Then, as a last matter, may I address myself to Mr. Milosevic.

4 Mr. Milosevic, are there any issues you would like to raise

5 relating to your state of health, both physically, mentally, emotionally,

6 psychologically, and to your conditions of detention? Please remain

7 seated. You may remain seated, Mr. -- you may sit down. Thank you very

8 much.

9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you very much, Your Honour.

10 Everything is fine.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Everything is fine. With your health?

12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: I know at the last Status Conference you told the

14 Chamber that you enjoyed very good health. Is that still the case?

15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, yes.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: And are you happy with the conditions at the

17 Detention Unit? Well, maybe "happy" is a wrong word. But you have no

18 complaints to raise about the conditions at the Detention Unit?

19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, I have no

20 objections, no complaints.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. The Chamber is quite pleased

22 to hear that you have no complaints and that your health -- you are still

23 enjoying good health.

24 It doesn't look like there is any other matter at this stage, and

25 so far as the Court is concerned, that brings us to the end of the

Page 217

1 pre-trial -- the Status Conference, I'm sorry. The matter will now stand

2 adjourned.

3 Court adjourned.

4 --- Whereupon the Status Conference

5 adjourned at 8.49 a.m.