Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 10459

1 Tuesday, 25 June 200

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 3.08 p.m.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon to everyone in the courtroom. Madam

6 Registrar, would you please call the case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is Case Number

8 IT-98-29-T, the Prosecutor versus Stanislav Galic.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.

10 General Galic, we were informed about the reasons of your late

11 arrival. We hope that it means that proper attention is given to your

12 medical condition.

13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honours, thank you, first of

14 all, for your attention, the attention of the Chamber and the

15 administration of the detention unit and of the specialist who treated me.

16 Because it was made possible for me to get what I needed most. If you

17 will allow me I will say it. This was a routine examination at the

18 specialist and we spoke to him about the evolution of my sickness and the

19 problems connected to it. And we had consultations. I asked him

20 questions and got answers, so I will not burden you with that, unless of

21 course you are interested, in which case, I can tell you. Basically my

22 state has deteriorated slightly, but we have remained on this that I will

23 take it as long as I can until the operation is carried out.

24 That is in a nutshell.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, of course, we cannot change your condition. The

Page 10460

1 only thing we can do is to take care that proper attention is paid to your

2 condition. So I do understand that this is the case. Apart from that, I

3 would like to know whether you feel fit enough to continue at this very

4 moment.

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I feel capable of continuing. For

6 the time being, there are no problems, but you have told me that I should

7 inform you if I have problems and that you will rule and I will stick by

8 what you said. But, I hope, as you can see, what I am like, so I hope

9 that I will be able to continue. Thank you.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you very much, General Galic. Please be

11 seated.

12 Ms. Pilipovic, the Chamber still owes you a response to the

13 objection made yesterday, objection to the admission into evidence of the

14 report of the expert witness, Dr. Turner. The report of the expert

15 witness, Dr. Turner, is admitted into evidence. The expert has, in

16 general terms, given his opinion on what would be relevant factors to

17 cause extreme fear, being extreme fear the main element of the definition

18 he used for the concept of terror. He explained different levels of fear.

19 He further elaborated on the symptoms and disorders caused by and the

20 response of human beings to a state of extreme fear.

21 He paid attention to the recovery from such fear and elaborated on

22 what type of action would potentially contribute to the induction of

23 extreme fear. Part of the report gives information on what other scholars

24 in the field have published on fear, mainly in relation to posttraumatic

25 stress disorders they observed sometimes specifically to in a situation of

Page 10461

1 war. The expert has been provided with descriptions of the events in

2 Sarajevo, such as contained in the indictment and extracts of some of the

3 evidence presented to this Chamber.

4 The expert has used this information to select the type of events

5 he concentrated on in the parts of his report where he more specifically

6 links such type of events to the effect it might have on a civilian

7 population in a situation of war. If the events as described in the

8 material the expert was provided with would in part or in its entirety be

9 proven these parts of the report could assist to that extent the Chamber

10 in its understanding of the evidence presented to it.

11 The Defence has had the opportunity to bring whatever it deemed to

12 be relevant, additional type of facts, to the attention of the expert

13 witness and ask him what effect such type of facts would have on his

14 findings. The Chamber will consider what probative value the expert

15 report has and will take into careful consideration to what extent the

16 type of facts, at least where the expert based his opinion on such type of

17 facts, in reality occurred in Sarajevo. This concerns the evaluation of

18 the evidence and does not effect its admissibility.

19 That is the ruling on the expert report of Dr. Turner.

20 Mr. Piletta-Zanin.

21 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. President. I think

22 that I should raise this point since we are going to speak about another

23 one of your decisions. These are to do with the keeping of the

24 transcripts, to draw the attention of the booths and of the Chamber to

25 what Dr. Turner said, apparently was badly translated but of course I am

Page 10462

1 not an expert to the matter. I am referring to the page 104, line 22, if

2 you will allow me, Mr. President.

3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, please proceed.

4 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Yes, in line 22, Mr. Turner

5 said in French and I am going to quote in French: "What I said in the

6 times of war, the civilians who are involved in the war, if these

7 civilians die near a military target or killed near a military target,

8 perhaps they will be affected by this experience." And so on and so on.

9 It goes without saying that here this is a contradiction, a surprising

10 contradiction, and there are a number of these. And I wanted to draw the

11 attention to this one. It seems obvious that if we die, we are going to

12 be affected, but we have to be extremely careful about the equivalence of

13 the transcripts. For this reason, I should have intervened last time, but

14 I didn't, because I was focussing on what the witness was saying.

15 I thank you for your attention.

16 JUDGE ORIE: Did you check the original English transcript because

17 it is now translated again, your words now in English, and what you

18 actually say is that once you died, you might not experience anything any

19 more. But did you also check what was in the original English text so

20 that we can now clarify the issue. Yes.

21 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Yes, I did. The meaning is

22 not much clearer in the language of the witness but it is comprehensible

23 in English, yes, Mr. President.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, but it would be the same in French and English,

25 and both incomprehensible for you.

Page 10463

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 10464

1 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] No, not at all, it is

2 comprehensible in English and it was a problem seemingly in relation to

3 the interpretation. But it is perfectly acceptable or relatively

4 acceptable in English. Thank you.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you for your clarification. I will try

6 to look it up, but I have different pages now, looking back to the

7 transcript of yesterday. But I will try to find it and check the English

8 words used by the expert witness.

9 Mr. Ierace, is the Prosecution ready to call its next witness?

10 MR. IERACE: Mr. President, two things before that happens.

11 Firstly, I have the redacted report of Mr. Zecevic to be tendered. Mr.

12 Stamp is present to speak to that, if required. A copy has been provided

13 to the Defence.

14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Are there any --

15 MR. IERACE: P3723.

16 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Yes and no, Mr. President.

17 Yes and no, because what I am being told here is not quite the truth.

18 This document has not been redacted. It has not been redacted.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Could you please try to solve that during the next

20 break and then I take it that the Chamber will be provided with the

21 redacted --

22 MR. IERACE: Yes, Mr. President. We will speak to Mr.

23 Piletta-Zanin during the next break and no doubt be the wiser for the

24 experience. Mr. President, I understand that Mr. Piletta-Zanin wants to

25 raise an issue that will take some five minutes before we call Witness AD.

Page 10465

1 So perhaps, if he wishes to do so.

2 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Yes. Quite.

3 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.

4 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Thank you. Mr. President, the

5 Defence received recently four new statements --

6 MR. IERACE: Mr. President --

7 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, Mr. Ierace.

8 MR. IERACE: I apologise for interrupting. But in anticipation of

9 what my friend might be about to discuss, given the reference to the

10 number "four" I wonder if this is appropriately dealt with in closed

11 session.

12 JUDGE ORIE: I think we are not yet in closed question. I don't

13 see closed session on my screen.

14 MR. IERACE: I should speak more clearly, Mr. President --

15 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I do understand, you would like to raise the

16 matter being raised in closed session.

17 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Mr. President, why?

18 JUDGE ORIE: Well it depends on -- well, I do not know the

19 content. If it is about witnesses that are protected, then we preferably

20 should do so. If not -- Mr. Ierace, could you --

21 MR. IERACE: Mr. President, if the issue that Mr. Piletta-Zanin

22 wishes to raise concerns four statements which were disclosed to him

23 yesterday, I think it appropriate that that be dealt with in closed

24 session because it inevitable will raise an issue which would clearly

25 require a closed session hearing.

Page 10466

1 JUDGE ORIE: Would you agree, Mr. Piletta-Zanin, or not?

2 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I am not sure

3 to which extent this witness is -- witnesses who will be protected by any

4 measures. Could Mr. Ierace perhaps give us some more information, however

5 little it may be.

6 JUDGE ORIE: [Previous translation continues]... whether it should

7 be in closed session or not, in closed session, and if what Mr. Ierace

8 tells us would not convince the Chamber that it should be dealt with in

9 closed session we return to open session and then deal with the matter.

10 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] Indeed.

11 JUDGE ORIE: We will now turn into closed session.

12 [redacted]

13 [redacted]

14 [redacted]

15 [redacted]

16 [redacted]

17 [redacted]

18 [redacted]

19 [redacted]

20 [redacted]

21 [redacted]

22 [redacted]

23 [redacted]

24 [redacted]

25 [redacted]

Page 10467

1 s

2 f

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Pages 10467-10473 redacted closed session

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 10474

1 [redacted]

2 [redacted]

3 [redacted]

4 [redacted]

5 [redacted]

6 [redacted]

7 [redacted]

8 [redacted]

9 [redacted]

10 [redacted]

11 [redacted]

12 [redacted]

13 [redacted]

14 [redacted]

15 [redacted]

16 [redacted]

17 [redacted]

18 [redacted]

19 [Open session]

20 JUDGE ORIE: We are in open session now.

21 MR. IERACE: Mr. President I have a timetable issue to raise. The

22 Prosecution was informed earlier today that the artillery expert, Mr.

23 Kovac, is no longer available on the 29th and 30th of July. That

24 necessitates us proposing an earlier date, and we have in mind the 10th

25 and if the Trial Chamber is sitting, the 12th of July. It is difficult

Page 10475

1 for the Prosecution to arrange a date for this witness because of his

2 particular interpretation requirements. He will give his evidence in the

3 Hungarian language. Therefore, we thought it prudent to alert the Trial

4 Chamber to our proposal, and indeed the Defence, since the Defence will

5 presumably want to have its expert attend on the same date as Mr. Kovac.

6 So, Mr. President, I would be very grateful if the Defence could

7 advise us by, say, tomorrow if that date is suitable to their expert so

8 that we can arrange for a Hungarian interpreter to be available on those

9 dates.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Piletta-Zanin, would you be able to inform by

11 tomorrow whether the 10th and/or perhaps the 12th of July would be

12 suitable for your expert?

13 MR. PILETTA-ZANIN: [Interpretation] I am grateful, Your Honour.

14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I think it was you suggested on the 10th of

15 July.

16 [Trial Chamber confers]

17 JUDGE ORIE: As we indicated before, Mr. Ierace, whether the 12th

18 will be available or not, we will only know by the end of this week. So

19 the 10th we will be sitting, but whether we also will be sitting on the

20 12th is still uncertain. Yes.

21 Then, if the Prosecution would be ready to call the next witness,

22 we will now turn into closed session again.

23 [Closed session]

24 [redacted]

25 [redacted]

Page 10476

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Pages 10476-10539 redacted closed session

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 10540

1 [redacted]

2 [redacted]

3 [redacted]

4 [redacted]

5 [redacted]

6 [redacted]

7 [redacted]

8 [redacted]

9 [redacted]

10 [redacted]

11 [redacted]

12 [redacted]

13 [redacted]

14 [redacted]

15 [redacted]

16 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at

17 7.03 p.m., to be reconvened on Wednesday,

18 the 26th day of June, 2002, at 2.15 p.m.

19

20

21

22

23

24

25