Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 1013

1 Tuesday, 16 December 2003

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.

4 [The accused entered court]

5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are in open session.

6 Madam Registrar, can you please call the case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Case number IT-01-47-T, the Prosecutor versus

8 Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir Kubura.

9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.

10 Appearances for the Prosecution, please.

11 MR. WITHOPF: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning, Counsel.

12 For the Prosecution, Chester Stamp and Ekkehard Withopf, together with

13 Kimberly Fleming as the case manager.

14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Appearances for the Defence,

15 please.

16 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honour. Good

17 morning, Your Honours. On behalf of General Hadzihasanovic,

18 Edina Residovic, Mirna Milanovic and Stephane Bourgon.

19 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. On

20 behalf of Mr. Kubura, Mr. Rodney Dixon, Mr. Ibrisimovic, and

21 Mr. Nermin Mulalic, legal assistant.

22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much. The

23 Chamber greets all of you, the Prosecution, the Defence, the accused, the

24 interpreters, and all of those who enable this procedure.

25 I would like to remind you that today we have to finish by 11.30

Page 1014

1 because there is another trial that starts at noon. So at 11.30 we shall

2 finish, and we will adjourn until tomorrow morning at 9.00. And our last

3 sitting this week will be on Friday. Can you please plan your schedule

4 accordingly. On Friday, we have to finish with the last witness, and make

5 sure you bear that in mind.

6 I would like to ask the Defence, both Defence counsel, to tell me

7 by Thursday at 9.00, after having heard the requests of the Prosecution,

8 with regard to the submissions, I would like to know what the Defence

9 thinks about it no later than Thursday at 9.00. It would be very good if

10 we could render a decision before Friday so that the Appeals Chamber could

11 then deal on the issue, since this is a very important issue for our

12 further proceedings. That's why I would kindly ask the Defence to submit

13 their opinion, if they object to the written submission by the

14 Prosecution. I know that you have a lot of work to do, but we have to

15 render our decisions fast. These decisions can also be rendered in

16 January and/or in February. However, every time the Defence gets up on

17 their feet and say we don't want that Prosecution to use the written

18 document, then we have to deal with that.

19 So if there are no other matters to discuss, we will continue

20 with the witness examination.

21 First of all, let's move into closed session.

22 Can you please check, Madam Registrar, whether we are in closed

23 session.

24 [Closed session]

25 (redacted)

Page 1015












12 Pages 1015 to 1045 redacted, closed session














Page 1046

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10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 [Open session]

13 --- Recess taken at 10.22 a.m.

14 --- On resuming at 10.38 a.m.

15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] There is a witness who does not

16 require protective measures, as far as I understand. So we have an hour.

17 I don't think we'll have time to finish. So he will have to come back

18 tomorrow.

19 Could the usher please bring the usher in -- the witness in.

20 [The witness entered court]

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Good day, Witness. Can you

22 hear the interpretation of what I am saying?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Could you tell me your first

25 and last name.

Page 1047

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My name is Dragan Rados.

2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your date of birth?

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The 10th of November, 1959.

4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Which city were you born in?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In the village of Brdo, Lasva.

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What is your current

7 profession?

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm a pool attendant.

9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Where do you live at the

10 moment?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I live in the USA, in Florida,

12 Orlando.

13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you have arrived from the

14 USA?

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I didn't hear that very well.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have arrived, you have come

17 here from the USA?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What sort of status do you have

20 in the USA? Are you an American resident? Do you have a green card, or

21 are you a tourist there?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I am now an American citizen.

23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you are an American citizen.

24 You're going to testify before this Tribunal now, and you must

25 now make the solemn declaration. The usher will show you the text you

Page 1048

1 have to read. Could you please read it out.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

3 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.


5 [Witness answered through interpreter]

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. You can sit down.

7 Witness, you are going to answer the questions put to you by the

8 Prosecution. You will then be cross-examined by the Defence. And if

9 necessary, the Prosecution will re-examine you. As we have to conclude

10 this hearing at 11.30, unfortunately you will have to return tomorrow

11 morning.

12 The Prosecution may commence its examination-in-chief.

13 MR. WITHOPF: Your Honours, the witness will focus his testimony

14 on the killing of Zvonko Rajic and the treatment in the Zenica Music

15 School.

16 Examined by Mr. Withopf:

17 Q. Good morning, Mr. Rados. Mr. Rados, have you ever been a member

18 of the JNA?

19 A. Yes, I have.

20 Q. Can you please inform the Trial Chamber from when to when.

21 A. From 1980 to 1981.

22 Q. Have you ever been a member of the HVO?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Can you please tell the Trial Chamber as to when you joined the

25 HVO.

Page 1049

1 A. I don't know the exact date. Perhaps in April, May, or June 1992

2 Q. And of which unit have you been a member of?

3 A. It was the Lasva local commune.

4 Q. And where was this unit based?

5 A. In Lasva.

6 Q. In the Lasva area, members of what ethnicities used to live in

7 the Lasva area, end of 1992 and beginning of 1993?

8 A. The Croats, Serbs, and Muslims.

9 Q. Which ethnic group has been in the majority at the end of 1992

10 and the beginning of 1993?

11 A. The Muslims.

12 Q. And which group has been the next biggest group?

13 A. Probably the Croats.

14 Q. Having been a member of the HVO, what was your position in the

15 HVO at the beginning of 1993?

16 A. I was a squad leader.

17 Q. And who has been your commander at the time?

18 A. Zvonko Rajic.

19 Q. The situation in the --

20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, you've been asked to

21 approach the microphones a bit, since the booths are having a little

22 difficulty. Please approach the microphones. Thank you.


24 Q. The situation in the Lasva Valley area end of 1992-1993, can you

25 please describe for the Trial Chamber what the situation has been about.

Page 1050

1 A. The population of the Lasva area did not trust each other very

2 much during that period. There was tension.

3 Q. Can you go in more detail in respect to the tensions that existed

4 in January 1993 in the Lasva area.

5 A. Well, because of the relations in the -- at the time, because of

6 the incidents that occurred in the Lasva Valley, the tension was quite

7 great.

8 Q. You informed the Trial Chamber that you were born in Brdo. Where

9 were you living in January 1993?

10 A. In Brdo.

11 Q. Did there come a time in January 1993 when the village of Brdo

12 was attacked?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber when this happened.

15 A. That happened in the second half of January, early in the morning

16 Q. In the second half of January 1993?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber who the attackers were.

19 A. The BH army.

20 Q. At that day, in the second half of January 1993, can you please

21 describe for the Trial Chamber what happened.

22 A. It was early in the morning. I was sleeping at home. I was

23 woken by the sound of shooting. Shots appeared to be coming from all

24 directions. You could mostly hear infantry weapons, but there were also a

25 few louder explosions. I don't know how long this lasted. I know that it

Page 1051

1 was dark when I woke up, and after a certain period of time it was daytime

2 when I heard some voices. Someone was calling my name out. And I

3 recognised my wife's voice. She called out my name and she said that we

4 should surrender, that we should go outside, and that they wouldn't do

5 anything to us. She said they wouldn't touch us and that it was necessary

6 for them to stop shooting.

7 I went outside with a rifle and headed in the direction of my

8 former house, my old house. I noticed a significant number of BH army

9 troops who were in the area, and they all pointed their rifles at me. I

10 told them not to shoot, and I was holding my rifle in my hands. I got as

11 far as my old house. A BH army soldier was lying in front of my old

12 house. I approached the soldier and said -- but I noticed that he had

13 blood on him -- if someone wants to help me, which one BH army member did,

14 I suggested we should take him to the main road, so that he could be

15 treated, so that they could offer him -- provide him with first aid.

16 We took him to the road. A car was supposed to arrive to collect

17 him and take him to the nearest hospital so that he could be treated

18 there. While carrying the soldier, I didn't notice any signs of -- signs

19 that he was alive. And then with some of the Muslim BH army soldiers I

20 continued to the water reservoir which supplied the village with water.

21 There were quite a few BH army soldiers up there. My wife was also there,

22 and quite a lot of people from Dusina had formed a group.

23 Q. May I interrupt at this point in time, Mr. Rados. You were

24 saying that there were quite a significant number of ABiH army troops.

25 Can you give the Trial Chamber a rough estimate about the numbers.

Page 1052

1 A. In front of my old house, at the side and towards Blasko's house,

2 on the slope and around the reservoir there were probably more than 50 of

3 them. They were also in the rear towards Potcimalj [phoen].

4 Q. Do you know who has been in charge of these members of the ABiH,

5 in charge at the time at the spot in Brdo?

6 A. I'm not sure I have understood your question very well.

7 Q. I'm asking you about your impression who has been in charge of

8 the attacking soldiers of -- attacking soldiers of the ABiH at the time.

9 With whom did you talk to?

10 A. There was an ABiH army soldier there. I started speaking to him.

11 I suggested - and he also suggested - that the shooting wasn't necessary,

12 that it should stop and that discussions should be held. He accepted

13 this, and he suggested that I should go from the other side, since that

14 was the Vranica Hill there, and the HVO soldiers were there, he suggested

15 that I should go and tell them and that I should find a place where we

16 could negotiate, have discussions.

17 My wife and I went to Vranjaca [phoen]. I saw Zvonko Rajic there

18 and I told him that it had to stop, that I had already spoken to them, and

19 that he should come and reach an agreement with the BH army soldier and

20 see how this problem could be solved. We came to an agreement. I don't

21 know exactly how many times my wife and I went there. But the agreement

22 was that we should meet in my house and that they should talk there.

23 After a certain period of time, this is what took place.

24 Q. And who was talking to whom in your house?

25 A. Zvonko Rajic was talking to a BH army soldier. The agreement

Page 1053

1 was -- well, all those soldiers, this was the first time I'd seen them.

2 And Zvonko didn't know them either. They started talking about putting an

3 end to the shooting and about him going to the local commune and finding

4 representatives of the BH army from Lasva. And they were to start talking

5 in order to solve the problem. The agreement was that the HVO soldiers

6 and the ABiH soldiers should be split into two groups and they should be

7 mixed up and go to the Lasva local commune in order to start talks there.

8 Q. Right. Do you know an individual with the name Edin Hakanovic?

9 A. Yes. He was with us. He was with us in my house. I think he

10 went with me to Vranjaca and back on the last occasion to tell BH army

11 soldiers that an agreement had been reached and that they should come to

12 my house and start talking there.

13 Q. What was Mr. Edin Hakanovic's role during the negotiations in

14 your house?

15 A. We didn't speak very much. Zvonko Rajic and another BH army

16 soldier were trying to reach an agreement. They were talking, and we

17 observed them from the side. Zvonko spoke on a couple of occasions. I'm

18 not quite sure what he said to Edin Hakanovic, but we decided that we

19 should all go to Lasva and be mixed up in two groups in order to continue

20 with the talks in Lasva.

21 Q. A few minutes ago, Mr. Rados, you said that the BiH army --

22 members of the ABiH came with civilians from Dusina. Can you describe for

23 the Trial Chamber the concrete situation in respect to the civilians from

24 Dusina.

25 A. When I reached the reservoir which supplied the water, I don't

Page 1054

1 know whether all the inhabitants were up there or almost all the

2 inhabitants, but there were a lot of them. They were at one side and they

3 were surrounded by ABiH soldiers. I was speaking with my wife -- I spoke

4 to my wife, and she said that they didn't come here on a voluntary basis.

5 She said that they had to come there and she said that two soldiers had

6 been killed in Dusina and two men had been wounded and that they had been

7 used as human shields.

8 Q. Mr. Rados, you were just telling us that after the negotiations

9 in your house, the group of HVO soldiers was divided into two groups. Can

10 you inform the Trial Chamber in which group you have been.

11 A. I was in a group in which there were also BH army soldiers. The

12 main road to Lasva was used. The other group went over Vranjaca via the

13 relay.

14 Q. Was Zvonko Rajic in your group?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. Whilst you were being escorted by ABiH soldiers, what did

17 Zvonko Rajic do?

18 A. I don't quite understand this question.

19 Q. Whilst you were walking and escorted by the ABiH soldiers, did

20 anything happen to Zvonko Rajic?

21 A. We were heading in the direction of Lasva. We arrived more or

22 less in front of Hazim Hakanovic's house. At that point someone said that

23 we couldn't continue. One of the BH army soldiers said so, because there

24 were some sort of ambush lower down and he said we had to return, we had

25 to go back. Zvonko Rajic said that there was no one down below, that

Page 1055

1 there wasn't an ambush, that they shouldn't be afraid, that we would go to

2 the local commune. He said we should go to the local commune and continue

3 with the talks down there. They then agreed that Mijo Ljubicic and a BH

4 soldier should go in front of us in the direction of Lasva to check that

5 there was no one down below, and the ABiH soldier suggested that we should

6 return. At first we didn't want to, but it seemed as if we had no other

7 choice and we started turning back.

8 We got to the crossroads leading towards Dusina and Brdo, and

9 after about 20 to 30 metres ABiH soldiers jumped aside and pointed their

10 rifles at us and said that we should throw our weapons down. In fact, at

11 the time I didn't have my weapon on me. I had left it in front of my old

12 house when I saw the soldier who had been killed there. They then took

13 the weapons. They had already started pushing us around. There were

14 threats, and they'd ask us "Why did it have to all come to this," et

15 cetera. They started turning back. They went in front of us -- we went

16 in front of them. And they followed us up to Barucija's house. At that

17 point Zvonko Rajic stood aside and he started fleeing in the opposite

18 direction. One of the BH army soldiers reacted. He fired a few shots, I

19 don't know how many exactly. I know that I couldn't see Zvonko any more,

20 but I heard him groaning and it seemed as if he had been hit.

21 They ordered one of us to go to fetch him, since he couldn't

22 walk. I don't remember who went, but they brought him back and I noticed

23 that he had been wounded in the leg. They told us to carry him and to

24 take the route that we had come by.

25 Q. May I interrupt you --

Page 1056

1 A. To go back where we had come from.

2 Q. Who was told to carry him? Were you amongst the ones that were

3 told to carry him?

4 A. While Zvonko was being carried back -- well, as he was quite

5 heavy, the people who were carrying him changed. And at some location

6 before my old house, there was a big pear tree there. We put Zvonko down

7 so that he could rest or to change the people who were carrying him. I

8 can't remember exactly. At that point a group of BH army soldiers were

9 approaching from the opposite direction. In fact, they were running

10 towards us. When they arrived, some of them started hitting Zvonko. It

11 didn't last very long. One of the soldiers who had arrived took a weapon

12 out. It had a short barrel, and he shot Zvonko. It was an automatic

13 weapon. I noticed that while he was shooting from this weapon someone

14 else tried to hit him, and I know that one BH army soldier was hit on that

15 occasion in the leg or the toes, in that area.

16 Q. Mr. Rados, when Zvonko Rajic was shot by the ABiH soldier, how

17 far away had you been at the time?

18 A. Between a metre and a half and 2 metres, not more than that. A

19 metre, a metre and a half, or 2 metres.

20 Q. Where on his body did the ABiH soldier shoot Zvonko Rajic?

21 A. In this area.

22 Q. Can you please describe for the record what the area is about in

23 words, please.

24 A. The area of the chest, near the neck. It was a burst of fire.

25 Q. "A burst of fire," does this mean that the ABiH soldier from his

Page 1057

1 automatic weapon shot a number of bullets, and do you have a rough idea

2 how many bullets he shot?

3 A. The weapon that the BH army soldier had was an automatic weapon

4 with a short barrel. Later on I heard that it was some kind of automatic

5 weapon with a short barrel called a Skorpion.

6 Q. Zvonko Rajic, was he still alive after he had been shot in the

7 area of his chest of his body?

8 A. No, he wasn't. He didn't show any signs of life. I think that

9 he was dead.

10 Q. At that point --

11 A. At that point, the BH army soldier still had the weapon in his

12 hand. He was still holding the weapon. I approached him and said that he

13 didn't have to fire any more shots and that I could tell him everything

14 that he wanted to know. The first question he asked me was, "Where is the

15 VBR, the multiple rocket launcher?"

16 Q. Mr. Rados, may I interrupt you here. Do you know the ABiH

17 soldier who shot Zvonko Rajic? Do you know him by name?

18 A. I had never seen that BH army soldier before, and at the time I

19 didn't know his name. I was subsequently told that his last name was

20 Patkovic.

21 Q. Who did tell you that his last name was Patkovic and when have

22 you been told that his last name was Patkovic?

23 A. I'm not sure who told me, but this was the name on everyone's

24 lips. This is what I heard after we had left Zenica or perhaps in Zenica,

25 or maybe after I had left Zenica.

Page 1058

1 Q. After you had left Zenica, what's the exact time you are

2 referring to?

3 A. That was perhaps two or three weeks after the event.

4 Q. After the murder of Zvonko Rajic, where did you go to, escorted

5 by the ABiH soldiers?

6 A. After that, they tied our hands and we set off in the direction

7 of Zenica, in the direction opposite to the one we had taken the first

8 time. Towards Zenica, to the estuary of the Lasva river, to the point

9 where the Lasva River joins the Bosna River.

10 Q. At this point in time, did you still have your military jacket?

11 A. After Zvonko had been killed, they took the upper parts of our

12 uniform off, all our clothing off. They took our jackets. They took what

13 they liked. I think they had taken Zvonko's jacket earlier on. I don't

14 know when exactly. It was probably immediately afterwards, and when they

15 first told us that we should surrender our weapons.

16 Q. What did the ABiH soldiers do with your military uniform jackets?

17 A. They took some of them. I know that they didn't want mine,

18 because it was old. And a BH army soldier threw my glasses on the ground

19 and stomped on them, thus destroying them.

20 Q. You just told the Trial Chamber that your and the other

21 HVO soldiers' hands were tied up. Who gave the order? Who was the person

22 in charge at this time within the ABiH soldiers?

23 A. I think the soldier who killed Zvonko Rajic was Patkovic, and he

24 also issued an order for us to be tied, for our hands to be tied with the

25 ropes that were in our jackets. And that's how they took us to the

Page 1059

1 confluence of the River Lasva with the Bosna River.

2 Q. Once you arrived at the River Lasva, what happened then?

3 A. When we arrived down there, there was a big group of BH army

4 soldiers there. I saw them getting in and out. And one soldier of the BH

5 army, a heavily built man, singled me out and started to do like he would

6 beat me. He was shoving me around, pushed me towards the wall, and at the

7 same time another younger soldier arrived. He was carrying a pistol. And

8 he put the pistol against my forehead. At that moment I saw Hazim

9 Barucija. He was also a BH army member. He was from Lasva. This all

10 lasted very short. Then they put us on buses and took us all the way to

11 Zenica.

12 Q. May I interrupt you here. You were just telling the

13 Trial Chamber that in Lasva there was a big group of ABiH members. Can

14 you detail the units to the best of your recollection which such soldiers

15 belonged to.

16 A. I did not know any of these soldiers. They were unknown to me.

17 Later on I heard that they were the Zeljeznicki Battalion and the MOS.

18 Q. Can you please tell the Trial Chamber for what MOS stands for.

19 A. I think it is the Muslim armed forces.

20 Q. You were just telling the Trial Chamber that you were taken into

21 buses. Did you voluntarily go into such buses, you and the other HVO

22 soldiers?

23 A. No. Some were saying that we were supposed to go to a

24 penitentiary and the others were saying that we were to go to another bus.

25 I didn't know at the time where we were being taken.

Page 1060

1 Q. At this point in time, were your hands still tied up?

2 A. Yes, they were.

3 Q. Were the hands of the other HVO soldiers still tied up?

4 A. Yes, they were.

5 Q. In the buses, have you been escorted by ABiH soldiers?

6 A. Yes. There were not many of them, but there were still some on

7 the buses.

8 Q. Where were you brought to?

9 A. From Lasva, across the Lasva Bridge, we took the main road to

10 Zenica, and we entered straight from the buses into the building which was

11 very close to the Zenica park. I could notice that. And most probably we

12 were taken to the first floor. There were some benches there. They

13 looked like students' benches, benches where pupils sit. That's where we

14 were lined up and we sat down there.

15 Q. May I interrupt you here. This building you were brought to,

16 does this building have a name and did it have a name at the point in

17 time?

18 A. It was the music school. That's what everybody called it. I

19 don't know whether it was actually the music school, but everybody called

20 the building the music school.

21 Q. Once you have been brought in the building which everybody called

22 the music school, what happened to you?

23 A. We got in. We were put in a room where students' benches were.

24 When we sat down, I don't know exactly whether this happened before or

25 after -- in any case, a few minutes later a soldier of the ABiH came in

Page 1061

1 and slapped each and every one of us. And after that, they untied us.

2 Q. After a soldier of the ABiH had slapped each of you, what

3 happened then and after you have been untied?

4 A. People were leaving one by one. I was the last one who was

5 supposed to leave that room.

6 Q. And do you know where these people were brought to once they were

7 made leaving the room?

8 A. They were most probably taken for some sort of interrogation. I

9 only noticed as they were coming back to the room it looked by the way

10 they walked and by the way that they behaved that they were -- they had

11 been beaten up. Some of them even said that they had been beaten up.

12 Q. Were you also taken for interrogation?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What happened to you during the interrogation?

15 A. A soldier of the ABiH escorted me up the stairs from that room,

16 maybe to the second floor. But I'm not sure about the floor. And then

17 somewhere midway another soldier hit me on the back with his rifle butt.

18 We entered a room in which a man was sitting. He had a military uniform

19 on. He may have been 30 to 40. He had dark hair, dark beard. And while

20 the door was being closed behind me, the soldier who had escorted me hit

21 me with his rifle butt on the back. I told him to stop. I told him,

22 "Whatever I know and whatever you may be interested in, I'll tell you."

23 And then he did not beat me any more, and then the person whom I

24 found sitting in that room started asking me questions.

25 Q. Have you been beaten in the presence of the person who was asking

Page 1062

1 you questions?

2 A. No. I don't think so.

3 Q. After the interrogation had finished, what happened then?

4 A. Then another soldier of the ABiH took me to another room. This

5 room looked like a lunchroom, like a place where you could take your

6 meals. The soldier who was there hit me again, this time in the neck. I

7 don't know what he used to hit me, whether it was his rifle or some other

8 wooden implement. I told him as well that there was no need for them to

9 beat me, because I was willing to tell them whatever I knew.

10 Q. Once you were hit by this soldier, after that what happened to

11 you and what happened to the other HVO soldiers which were brought with

12 you to the building which was known as the Zenica Music School?

13 A. After the interrogation, we were transferred to the basement of

14 the same building.

15 Q. In this basement of the same building, were there already any

16 other people?

17 A. There were three soldiers there, three men who were members of

18 the HVO from Drivusa who had been brought in the night before, as far as I

19 know. They were frightened, very edgy.

20 Q. Once you were brought in this room, what happened to you and the

21 other group of HVO soldiers?

22 A. I don't know exactly whether this happened the same night or the

23 following night, but in any case two soldiers came during the night and

24 they brought some lists with them. They read out the names on those lists

25 with the names of Viktor Rajic and my name on one of the lists. And they

Page 1063

1 said to all the others that they should face the wall with their hands on

2 the back and they started beating Viktor Rajic. He was beaten, kicked, I

3 don't know for how long. But they stopped when he started bleeding

4 profusely from somewhere on his face.

5 Q. Sorry, may I just interrupt you here. These soldiers who were

6 beating him, what army did they belong to?

7 A. It was very hard to tell. I know that one of them had boots on,

8 and the other one had trainers. One of them was taller, and another one

9 was shorter. The shorter guy wore a balaclava, so you could only see his

10 eyes.

11 Once they stopped hitting Viktor, they started beating me. They

12 kicked me. They hit me in the rib area. They were not satisfied, and one

13 of them took the rope from the jacket. He tied my two thumbs together

14 behind my back very high up and tied one end of the rope around my neck.

15 And they took a wooden object which looked like a baseball bat and they

16 started hitting me with that bat in the rib area. I don't know how long

17 this may have lasted or how many times I was hit. They stopped when they

18 heard a loud noise. And after that, I was only kicked once by the man who

19 was wearing trainers.

20 Q. Mr. Rados, we'll stop at this point in time. And I will continue

21 your examination tomorrow morning.

22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you for -- to the

23 Prosecution for having noticed that it was half past 11.00.

24 Witness, I'm afraid you have to return tomorrow at quarter to

25 9.00, because we shall resume at 9.00. Hopefully -- we were supposed to

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1 work until quarter to 2.00; however, we have to be out of this courtroom

2 because another trial is about to start at 12.00.

3 I would kindly ask the usher to take the witness out of the

4 courtroom.

5 [The witness stands down]

6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We are adjourned until 9.00

7 tomorrow morning. Thank you.

8 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 11.32 a.m.,

9 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 17th day of

10 December, 2003, at 9.00 a.m.