1 Tuesday, 13 July 2004
2 [Open session]
3 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.
4 [The accused entered court]
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, could you call
6 the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon. Case number IT-01-47-T, the
8 Prosecutor versus Enver Hadzihasanovic and Amir Kubura.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
10 Ms. Benjamin, could we have the appearances for the Prosecution.
11 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Good afternoon, Mr. President. Good
12 afternoon, Your Honours. For the Prosecution, Tecla Henry-Benjamin and
13 Andres Vatter, the case manager. Thanks.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And could we have the
15 appearances for Defence counsel, who are all present.
16 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good day, Mr. President. Good
17 day, Your Honours. On behalf of General Enver Hadzihasanovic, Edina
18 Residovic, lead counsel; Stephane Bourgon, co-counsel; and Muriel Cauvin,
19 our legal assistant. Thank you.
20 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Good day, Your Honours. On
21 behalf of Mr. Kubura, Rodney Dixon and Fahrudin Ibrisimovic.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. This will be the
23 last hearing this week. The Trial Chamber would like to greet everyone
24 present, Ms. Benjamin, Defence counsel, who are all present today, as I
25 have already said. I'd like to greet the accused and everyone else in
1 the courtroom, the registrar, the legal officer, the usher, the court
2 reporter, the assistants, and the security officers. And I won't forget
3 to mention the interpreters in their booths either.
4 The hearing that we'll be holding today will have to do with the
5 hearing of a witness. I think that Ms. Benjamin wanted to mention a
6 problem with the registry, but the registrar has said that we have a memo
7 about this issue. We still haven't received this memo, though.
8 Mr. Bourgon, is it necessary to make submissions now, since we aren't
9 aware of the registry's position at the moment? Should we wait for the
10 memo? I'll give you the floor.
11 MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. Good
12 day, Your Honours. Mr. President, just before the beginning of the
13 hearing, I received a copy of the memo from the registry, and I believe
14 that the Trial Chamber will be receiving it. I thought that perhaps
15 there wouldn't be any memo. I do have the memo, though, and I have drawn
16 the conclusions from it, and if necessary I will address the Chamber.
17 Thank you, Mr. President.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Bourgon.
19 Ms. Benjamin, yesterday we mentioned a number of documents that were
20 problematic. You said that you would make efforts to ensure that we
21 were provided with these documents. In addition, there were some
22 documents that didn't have any exhibit numbers; they only had OTP
23 numbers. The Trial Chamber has examined the issue again and we have
24 realised that there were other numbers that you did not mention. Could
25 you do everything that is necessary in order to inform us, immediately
1 perhaps or after the break, about this issue. Perhaps you could speak to
2 the Chamber's legal officer about this matter, because we have realised
3 that there are some numbers -- 948, 950, 963; those are the numbers I can
4 remember -- there are some numbers that you did not mention, and we need
5 all the relevant information. If you aren't in a position to provide us
6 with this information now, you could do so at a later stage. If you want
7 to provide us with any information now, you may take the floor.
8 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, it's our intention to deal
9 with it at -- after the break or after this witness. I have discussed
10 the matter with the Defence, and I'm ready to inform the Trial Chamber.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Ms. Benjamin.
12 I'll now ask the usher to call the witness into the courtroom.
13 [The witness entered court]
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Good day, Witness. I'd first
15 like to make sure that you are receiving the interpretation of what I am
16 saying. If so, please say so.
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can hear you.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We know that you arrived at
19 about 11.00 at the airport and you were brought to the Tribunal
20 immediately in order to speak to the Prosecution and perhaps to the
21 Defence as well, because you've been called here as a witness for the
23 Before you take the solemn declaration, I would like you to tell
24 me your first and last names, your date of birth, and place of birth.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] My name is Vinko Zrno. I was born
1 on the 14th of September, 1954 in the village of Suica in Tomislavgrad
2 Municipality in Bosnia and Herzegovina. I lived there Bugojno from 1978
3 until 1994.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Are you currently
5 employed? And if so, what is your profession?
6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm a construction technician. I
7 work in Zagreb in Croatia, and I'm in charge of a construction site. I
8 have full-time employment there.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you. In 1993, over ten
10 years ago, what sort of professional activities did you exercise?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I was again in charge of a
12 construction site. I worked in the Gorica company in Bugojno, and I was
13 a construction technician, as I am now.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Have you already testified
15 before an international tribunal with regard to the events that took
16 place in your country in 1993 or perhaps in a local court, or is this the
17 first time that you will be testifying?
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I have never testified before in
19 front of a national or international court. I have only given
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I will now ask you to read out
22 the solemn declaration. The usher will show it to you. Please read it
23 out in your own language.
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
25 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
12 Blank page inserted to ensure the pagination between the English and
13 French transcripts correspond
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You may sit down now.
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
3 WITNESS: VINKO ZRNO
4 [Witness answered through interpreter]
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As I said a minute ago, you
6 have been called here as a witness for the Prosecution. The Prosecution
7 are to your right, and in a minute they will start their
8 examination-in-chief. After they have concluded their
9 examination-in-chief -- and yesterday we were told that it might take one
10 hour, perhaps less; we'll see -- after that stage, Defence counsel, who
11 are to your left, will also ask you a series of questions. They will
12 conduct what we call their cross-examination. The purpose of their
13 questions will be to check the credibility of your statements and also to
14 obtain information about the overall context within which these events
15 referred to in the indictment occurred. Once Defence counsel has
16 completed their cross-examination, the Prosecution may ask you additional
18 The three Judges sitting before you may also ask you questions in
19 order to clarify some of your answers if they think this is necessary, or
20 they may ask you questions if they believe that there are certain issues
21 that should be raised because your testimony did not clarify certain
22 issues that the Judges are interested in.
23 In addition, as this procedure is mainly an oral procedure, your
24 answers are important, so when answering questions, try to do so in a
25 simple and precise terms so that the Judges can be well informed by what
1 you say about what you saw and heard at the time.
2 If you think that a question is very complicated, if you fail to
3 understand the sense of a question, ask the person putting the question
4 to you to rephrase it.
5 There are two other elements I would like to point out: Firstly,
6 you have taken the solemn declaration, which means that you should not
7 give false testimony. You have sworn to speak the truth, so you are not
8 supposed to lie when answering questions. In the case of false
9 testimony, it's my duty to inform you that that constitutes a violation
10 that can be punished by the Tribunal, either by a prison sentence or a
11 fine. In addition - but this should not apply to you - if a question is
12 put to the witness and the witness thinks that his answer could
13 incriminate him, the witness may refuse to answer the question. In such
14 a case, the Trial Chamber can compel the witness to answer the question,
15 but the witness is guaranteed a form of immunity. But generally
16 speaking, this should not be applicable to you.
17 I've provided you with a rough sketch of the procedure that will
18 be followed here. If you encounter difficulties of any kind, don't
19 hesitate to inform us of the fact. We will rule and try to find a
20 solution to the problem.
21 Without wasting any more time, I will now let Ms. Benjamin take
22 the floor. She will now commence the examination-in-chief.
23 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Thank you, Mr. President.
24 Examined by Ms. Henry-Benjamin:
25 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Zrno, once again. Could you state for the
1 Trial Chamber --
2 A. Good day.
3 Q. -- you did compulsory national service with the JNA and for what
4 period, please?
5 A. Yes. I did compulsory national service with the JNA from July
6 1976 until November 1977.
7 Q. Subsequently to your service with the JNA, somewhere around -- in
8 1993 did you -- were you a member of any other military body?
9 A. In 1993, I was a member of the HVO.
10 Q. And could you tell the Trial Chamber where you were stationed.
11 A. I was a guard in the military hospital which was in Kalin Hotel
12 in Bugojno.
13 Q. Could you describe for the Trial Chamber the relationship between
14 the Croats and the Muslims in Bugojno prior to April of 1993.
15 A. The relationships between the Croats and the Muslims in Bugojno
16 was excellent. The military hospital was a common one. There weren't
17 any problems, and there were even a certain number of Muslims who were
18 members of the HVO. There were no problems of any kind. I, at least,
19 didn't notice any such problems.
20 Q. Did there come a time then, in 1993, when things began to change
21 in Bugojno?
22 A. Yes. Things began to change in April 1993. That's when it
23 started. And this continued to change until July, when the conflict
24 broke out. There was tension in the town. This is something you could
25 feel in the air. Something was going on. Something was happening.
1 Q. Mr. Zrno, could you tell us precisely when did the conflict begin
2 in Bugojno.
3 A. I don't think I know the exact date, but I think it was around
4 the 20th of July or the 18th of July. I'm not sure. All I know is that
5 it was on a Monday. It started early in the morning on Monday.
6 Q. And you personally, on the commencement of the conflict, did you
7 do anything in particular?
8 A. My job was to guard the military hospital. That's what I did. I
9 had to receive the wounded, provide them with assistance, et cetera.
10 Q. At the beginning of the conflict, did you remain in the hotel
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Could you describe for the Trial Chamber what you heard in the
14 compound, whilst you were in the compound.
15 A. As far as the conflict is concerned, the conflict broke out on
16 Monday. On Sunday, I went to mass with my friends. The town was very
17 silent. There was no movement of troops, and I happened to go to the
18 military hospital where a colleague of mine was on duty. This colleague
19 told me that two people -- two individuals had been killed. I think it
20 was Mico Vucak and Telenta. There was a clash with the Muslims. He said
21 that something was going on and that I had to go back quickly and put on
22 my uniform. I went home, put my uniform on, reported for duty. As I
23 said, it was very quiet until Monday morning. On Monday morning,
24 everything started. Hell broke loose. There was shelling, shooting.
25 Q. And if you had to describe the situation in one word, how best
1 would you be able to describe it?
2 A. Terrible. You didn't know who was shooting on all sides -- from
3 all sides.
4 Q. Could you assist the Trial Chamber. For approximately how long
5 did this shooting last?
6 A. Four or five days. From Monday - that's when it started - and it
7 continued up until Friday. We surrendered on Saturday. It was a little
8 quieter on Saturday, but it didn't stop.
9 Q. Now, whilst the fighting was going on, what part of the -- the
10 hotel were you?
11 A. I was in the basement, which is where the military hospital was
12 located. It was evacuated when this fighting was going on. One doctor
13 remained and a nurse and two guards.
14 Q. As far as you know, did there come a time when the hotel was used
15 as a shelter as well?
16 A. The basement, which is where the military hospital was located,
17 was never used as a shelter, at least not while I was there.
18 Q. On the other floors of the hotel, would you be able to assist us,
19 who would have been on the other floors of the hotel?
20 A. On the ground floor, there was the military police, and two or
21 three days after the fighting began, civilians came from a place called
22 Gaj not far from the hotel. That's after Gaj had fallen. The civilians
23 then came and they stayed on the ground floor.
24 Q. Would you say that the hotel itself was a particular target
25 during the conflict?
1 A. Yes, I would.
2 Q. And was there shooting -- much shooting at the hotel at all times
3 during the conflict?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Did there come a time when there was a lull or break in the
7 A. Sometimes, but that was very seldom.
8 Q. Well, did the shooting finally stop?
9 A. The shooting stopped on Friday evening or Saturday morning,
10 something like that.
11 Q. Could you tell the Trial Chamber what you did upon realising that
12 there was some cease-fire of some sort.
13 A. Well, sometime in the afternoon a colleague and I felt that
14 things had quietened down. There was no more shooting. I asked him to
15 remain in the basement. I went up to the ground floor, thinking that the
16 police were up there. I wanted to see what was happening. When I
17 arrived at the reception, the Muslim troops surrounded me. They insulted
18 me. They said, "Lay your arms down, you Ustasha." I laid my weapon
19 down. Then they went down to the basement with me, asked me who else was
20 in there. I told them who was there. There was a wounded man there, a
21 dead man, my colleague, as I said; there was a nurse and her husband and
22 the doctor and the two guards. They took us outside. They didn't beat
23 us or maltreat us. They treated us correctly. And then they took me and
24 my colleague Stipica Jelavic to the secondary school. And the others
25 they said they would take them to the medical centre, but I don't know if
1 they did this.
2 Q. You said to the Trial Chamber they were soldiers. Could you tell
3 us who these soldiers were. Were you able to recognise how they were
4 dressed, which unit they came from?
5 A. Well, their clothing was -- or their uniforms were a bit
6 different from the HVO uniforms. It was the Muslim army. They had
7 uniforms on, green berets, some sort of green bands on them or armbands.
8 Q. And when you were being led out by these soldiers, could you tell
9 us if you -- or are you able to tell us if the civilians that you told us
10 about on the first floor were still in the hotel?
11 A. I don't know where they were, what happened, because when I went
12 up to the ground floor, I didn't see any of our civilians or any of our
13 troops. I didn't see anyone. Only the Muslim troops were there, and
14 there were a lot of them.
15 Q. Thank you. Now, you said to us that you were escorted out by the
16 Muslims, and could you tell us -- "the Muslim soldiers," to use your
17 words -- and could you tell us where you were taken to, please.
18 A. They took us to the Mahmut Busatlija Secondary School, which is
19 100 or 200 metres from the hotel. They took us out to the yard, and
20 that's where the janitor received us. We spoke to him, had coffee with
21 him. We spoke about what was happening, about the fact that the town was
22 on fire and about how terrible the situation was.
23 Q. How close was the school to the Hotel Kalin?
24 A. As I said, between 100 and 200 metres.
25 Q. And at the school, were you taken to anywhere in particular?
1 A. At about 9.00 in the evening, they took us down to the basement,
2 to a cell that was about 3 by 5 or 3 by 6 metres. There were no windows
3 in it. There was not enough air there. There was only one door and
4 there were some sort of bars. I think there were about 50 of us there.
5 Q. Now, you've more or less described the physical conditions for
6 us. Could you tell us what eating arrangements were in place for you in
7 the basement.
8 A. Well, while we were in the basement, they would provide us with
9 one meal a day. That was provided for those who could go up and out into
10 the courtyard, because it was chaotic during that conflict.
11 Q. What of bathroom facilities? Were you able to use the bathroom
12 while in the basement?
13 A. No. There wasn't even enough air, let alone a proper toilet. We
14 had a bucket. And I apologise for having to describe that. We had a
15 bucket that we used to relieve ourselves in. I have to say that amongst
16 us there was a family, a husband, a wife, and two daughters. I believe
17 that their family name was Misina [phoen] and he worked in the medical
19 Q. For the benefit of the Trial Chamber, can you assist us with the
20 ethnic background of the detainees in the basement.
21 A. The people who were detained in the basement were Croats.
22 Q. Now, you indicated that you were only allowed a meal when you
23 went outside. Did you go outside eventually from the basement?
24 A. Yes. Once after three days, when I could no longer bear the
25 hunger, I went up and I had a piece of bread and some pasta.
1 Q. So previous to your going out after three days, is it your
2 evidence that you had nothing to eat for three days while you were down
3 in the basement? Am I correct?
4 A. No.
5 Q. You had meals while you were in the basement prior to your
6 leaving the basement?
7 A. I did not have anything to eat. I've told you. I had nothing to
8 eat for three days.
9 Q. Now, why didn't you want to go out to have something to eat?
10 A. I was afraid that I would be beaten, because people were beaten
11 continuously and you could hear them screaming and crying all the time.
12 And it was not just me who was afraid; there were others who were afraid
13 to go out.
14 Q. Were you beaten while you were at the basement?
15 A. No. No.
16 Q. Do you know of any other people who were beaten in particular?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Could you tell us your observations, please.
19 A. I remember very well. The guy whose name was Mario Subasic, he
20 was pushed down the stairs and fell on the floor, and at that moment I
21 could see his eye falling out of the eye socket and he was bleeding all
22 over his face.
23 Q. Now, during your stay or upon the arrival of your -- upon the
24 arrival at the basement, were you allowed to have a change of clothing?
25 A. No. No.
1 Q. Did there come a time when you actually changed your clothes?
2 A. No.
3 Q. So could you tell us: When you entered the basement, what
4 clothing were you wearing?
5 A. An HVO uniform, a military uniform with the insignia of the
6 military hospital, of course.
7 Q. And did you continue to wear these clothes up until the time that
8 you eventually left the basement?
9 A. Yes. Until the very day when we were transferred to the sports
10 hall of the grammar school, from the day I put the uniform on when they
11 told me that I had to go home and put it on.
12 Q. When you got to the sports hall of the grammar school, could you
13 briefly but concisely state to the Trial Chamber what transpired.
14 A. We were given a little bit more space there. They accommodated
15 us in the sports hall. A colleague of mine was there. He was a native
16 of Bugojno. He visited Croatian houses. They were looking for
17 volunteers that would bring us food. So some people were even allowed to
18 change their clothes. They were given food. I myself volunteered to do
19 that because I believed that it would allow me to change clothes and to
20 be given some food. Unfortunately, I was wrong and we were taken in a
21 different direction; we were taken to Vrbanja.
22 Q. And did you remain at Vrbanja?
23 A. When we were taken to Vrbanja, there were ten of us. Five were
24 singled out to dig bodies along the Vrbas River, and the rest of us, the
25 five of us, were taken up to the hill and we were asked to dig five
2 Q. For what period of time was this?
3 A. It felt like an eternity.
4 Q. But approximately how much, in terms of days?
5 A. What do you mean days? I didn't understand your question.
6 Q. Approximately how long did you stay out there?
7 A. I believe that we were taken around noon and that we stayed there
8 until 3.00, 4.00, or 5.00 in the afternoon, but it felt like an eternity.
9 It couldn't have been more than two or three hours, but it felt like a
10 very long time that we were there.
11 Q. Thank you. And when you returned to the stadium, could you
12 explain to the Trial Chamber what transpired.
13 A. When I returned to the stadium? Before that, I was in their
14 military hospital, in the medical centre, for about 25 days. And then
15 when I arrived at the stadium, I was placed in a room and they call it
16 the shock room, where I found those who had been beaten. And they put us
17 who had arrived from the military hospital there.
18 Again, it was terrible. Names would be called out. During the
19 day, people would be taken to work on the front lines. Some 200 or so of
20 us would stay in the camp and the remaining 100 or so would be taken to
21 the front lines to work there. They would bring them back. They would
22 be replaced by other people, all according to some list that I don't know
23 who compiled. And then in the evening, again terror; individual names
24 would be called out. And when those people would respond, they would put
25 plastic bags on their heads. They would take them out to the stadium.
1 They would beat them up, and then they would return them to the shock
2 room, just like animals. They would just shove them into the room, all
3 black and blue from beating.
4 Q. And hence my reason that I asked you the question before, but I
5 think you probably didn't understand. And the question I'll ask again
6 is: Before you were taken to the stadium, you indicated to us a while
7 ago that you went to the stadium from an outpatients clinic, from a
8 hospital. Did you?
9 A. That is correct. I'll try to explain that very briefly. We were
10 beaten up there at the cemetery, and it was the matter of life and death.
11 My cousin, Mario, died on the way to our destination. As soon as they
12 put him in the van, he died. I was left behind in the grammar school. I
13 was thrown on the floor of the sports hall. There was nobody there. I
14 wailed. I screamed. I asked for help. I even asked them to kill me.
15 Their policeman, Bevrnja, came. I will never forget him. I
16 believe he was the commander of the police. I asked him to help me. And
17 he asked me, "What happened to you? Did you slip? Did you fall?" He
18 was taunting me. And after a while, his nurse came. They turned me
19 around, and she said that I had to be taken urgently to their military
20 hospital in the military centre -- in the medical centre of Bugojno.
21 Two police officers came. I believe that they were from Prusac.
22 They were really correct and fair to me. They treated me with respect.
23 They took me to the military hospital. Dr. Karadza took charge of me and
24 examined me and it was upon his insistence that I stayed in the hospital
25 and that's how I managed to survive. He locked me up in a special room.
1 He gave me a guard who guarded me.
2 Two days later he put me in a different room where other HVO
3 soldiers were brought from those, so to say, reception centres, from the
4 furniture salon and so forth. Four or five people came from the
5 furniture salon. They were all beaten, just like me.
6 Q. And your cousin Mario Zrno, could you tell us what eventually
7 happened to him.
8 A. He died and they took him away. That's what they told me.
9 That's what I could understand. They said that they were taking him to
10 the grammar school, but it turned out that they buried him in the
11 cemetery in Crnice, where quite a lot of them were buried, actually.
12 Q. Okay. So now we're going to go forward to where you took us to a
13 while ago. And I'd like you to describe for the Trial Chamber the
14 conditions at the Iskra Stadium for us, please.
15 A. As for the conditions at the stadium, again this was terrible.
16 The bare stands made of concrete; underneath the stands, there was a PVC
17 foil. We had a blanket each. It was just terrible. I have to say that
18 sometime in the course of September we all got ill. We had lice. They
19 had to cut our hair and shave us. It was terrible. And the most
20 terrible thing of all was the accommodation, in a huge room which was
21 about 80 square metres big, and there were 150 of us there. And when we
22 returned from the place where we worked, they would put us in that room.
23 And there was a barbed wire. There was just one bathroom in the whole of
24 this stadium, and there were a total of 200 or so of us who were there
25 most of the time. So can you imagine? No water, no electricity.
1 As for the food, there was just one big pot with some boiled
2 vegetables and maybe ten loaves of bread, so basically we fought for the
3 food, and those who managed to eat something would develop diarrhoea
4 immediately. Owing to the Croatian civilians who remained in Bugojno,
5 still we managed to survive because they used all the possible channels
6 to deliver some food, some bread to us. They helped us in any way they
7 possibly could.
8 Q. Now, you indicated to us that they took you out for work; am I
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. For how long did you stay away from the stadium doing work?
12 A. I was there for 14 or 15 days, but I believe that it was 14.
13 Q. On your return to the stadium, could you describe for the Trial
14 Chamber the conditions that existed.
15 A. Up to the end of November, it was really difficult. And during
16 the first month, it was very difficult. This gradually subsided.
17 However, we were always scared, always afraid that we would be taken away
18 and beaten. People were being taken away every day for interrogation to
19 the BH Bank. Some people never returned. The whereabouts of some 20 or
20 so people are not known to the very day.
21 Towards the end of the year, we were hoping that there would be
22 an exchange around Christmas. There were stories about a possible
23 exchange, but nothing came out of it. After new year, it became somewhat
24 easier. We were not taken for work; we were not beaten. Their guards
25 would come to talk to us. We had a lot more freedom. We were even
1 brought some books to read, a chess board, playing cards. We would
2 sometimes even be allowed to go outside and light a cigarette and go for
3 a short walk. And this lasted for some three months, up to the 19th of
4 March, when we were exchanged.
5 Q. Could you tell us -- you indicated to us that people were taken
6 out for beatings. Could you tell us by whom these people were taken out.
7 A. The guards would call out names, and then they would put plastic
8 bags on the heads of the people that they called out, and then they would
9 take them to the stadium. Now, who did the actual beating, I don't know.
10 Q. Now, these guards, who were they?
11 A. The Muslim army, Muslims.
12 Q. Could you tell the Trial Chamber how they were dressed.
13 A. They wore the uniforms of the BiH army, camouflage uniforms.
14 Q. And as time passed, did the numbers increase or decrease? Did
15 the numbers of detainees increase or did they decrease?
16 A. It increased, but not a lot. Not by a great number. In October
17 or November, they brought two lads from Imotski who were put in a
18 separate room. I believe that they had been captured in Gornji Vakuf.
19 And they also brought a guy called Dedo from Prozor. One or two
20 detainees were released earlier with the help of the Imam of Zagreb,
21 Sefko Omerbasic, and some other priests. There were some secret links or
22 connections, that these people managed to be released after five or six
24 Q. Along with the guards that you told us that were Muslims, were
25 there any other people from -- who may have been from other units in the
2 A. I could not tell the difference between their units. They all
3 wore identical uniforms. There were some individuals whom I remember who
4 wore a Mujahedin uniform, and he had a sabre. He wanted to come towards
5 the detainees and the guards prevented him from doing that. I was
6 surprised. I don't know whether he was a Mujahedin or not, but he had a
7 different uniform on. There was intimidation and terror all the time.
8 Q. And with the coming of the new year, did the situation change in
9 the stadium?
10 A. In 1994, it was somewhat easier and the situation changed as of
11 new year. They treated us with a bit more respect. They would allow us
12 to go out, to stretch our legs. We could also use the makeshift toilets
13 that were outside the compound of the stadium. So it was a lot more
15 Q. Did there come a time when you were eventually released?
16 A. On the 19th of March, the exchange took place. They put us on
17 lorries like cattle and they took us to Mostar, which was 150 kilometres
18 away on a macadam road, and that's where they brought us and that was it.
19 Q. Did you eventually reconnect with your wife and family?
20 A. Yes. My wife and children were refugees in Tomislavgrad. I
21 found them there. I spent a month or a month and a half there, and it
22 was very fortunate that a friend of mine contacted me from Zagreb and
23 offered me a job, which I accepted without any hesitation. So I thank
24 God and this friend of mine that I am here today. I have built a house.
25 In the meantime, I sold my house in Bugojno -- that is, I gave it away.
1 I managed to give my children a roof over their head, and I am trying to
2 make do with what I have.
3 Q. Where do you reside presently?
4 A. In Ceseta [phoen], which is a suburb of Zagreb.
5 Q. Mr. Zrno, do you have any intentions of returning to Bugojno?
6 A. Never. Never.
7 Q. State for the Trial Chamber how you felt upon your release from
9 A. There -- there are no words to describe that. I was almost
10 unconscious. I was almost incapable of grasping the fact that I was with
11 my wife, my children. They had beaten my spirit out of me. I was
12 half-dead. I was -- all the time I was scared that I would never
13 survive. I always feared for my life. There was even an operation that
14 I didn't mention. When I was kept in the hospital, the rest were taken
15 away, and as they were travelling -- the 150 men were travelled to Rabe,
16 and the goal was for them to be killed there - that's what I heard - but
17 the army from Prusac, the Muslim army from Prusac did not allow that and
18 that -- these people were then returned to the camp.
19 Q. Today, presently, how do you feel now?
20 A. It's very difficult for me to have to go through all this again;
21 however, having said that, I also feel much more at ease. I have already
22 started shaking. I don't know what to tell you. Let God be their judge.
23 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, Your Honours, this concludes
24 the examination-in-chief of this witness.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mrs. Benjamin. The
1 Defence counsel may begin their cross-examination. We have about half an
2 hour before our first break.
3 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
4 Cross-examined by Ms. Residovic:
5 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Zrno. My name is Edina
6 Residovic, and I represent General Hadzihasanovic. I'm really very sorry
7 that during the war you suffered all those things that you testified
8 about; however, in the interest of justice, I have to ask you some
9 questions, and I would kindly ask you to answer those questions. Did you
10 understand me?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Thank you. To the questions put to you by my learned friend, you
13 said that during the war in 1993 you were a member of the HVO. Is it
14 true that you became a member of the HVO on the 14th of August, 1992 and
15 that you remained a member of the HVO until the moment you were captured?
16 Is that correct?
17 A. Yes, it is.
18 Q. You also said that you became a guard in the military hospital in
19 Bugojno and that you were captured in that position; is that correct?
20 A. Yes, it is.
21 Q. I would like to know whether you acted as a guard in this
22 military hospital as a member of the police of the HVO or were you a
23 guard -- a brigade guard?
24 A. I was a brigade guard.
25 Q. You also said that the relationship between the Croat and Muslim
1 population in Bugojno deteriorated in the spring of 1993; is that
3 A. Yes, it is.
4 Q. The incidents that started occurring at the time were mostly
5 resolved by peaceful means; is that correct?
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. However, is it also correct that not far from Bugojno, in Gornji
8 Vakuf, there was an armed conflict going on between the BiH army and the
9 HVO and in April there were also conflicts in the Lasva Valley and this
10 aggravated the situation between the Muslims and Croats in Bugojno? Is
11 that correct?
12 A. Yes, it is.
13 Q. You have also mentioned an incident which took place around the
14 18th of July, when you heard from your colleagues that at the checkpoint
15 in Vrbanja, not far from Bugojno, there had been an incident and that two
16 members of the HVO - or better say the anti-terrorist detachment - were
17 killed. Their names we Mico Vucak and Miroslav Telenta. Is that
19 A. Yes, it is.
20 Q. In accordance with previous attempts to resolve all incidents in
21 a peaceful manner, a mixed commission of the BH MUP and the Croatian
22 Community of Herceg-Bosna MUP was formed; however, the commission was
23 attacked, two MUP members were killed, and then the village of Vrbanja
24 was also attacked; is that correct?
25 A. I don't know about that question.
1 Q. Were you aware of the fact that a number -- a large number of
2 civilians were killed in Vrbanja and 54 civilians were killed and the
3 conflict then spread to the entire town?
4 A. I'm not aware of that.
5 Q. You said that fighting went on for a number of days and
6 throughout that period of time you were in the Kalin Hotel; is that
8 A. Yes, it is.
9 Q. Apart from your brigade, the Eugen Kvaternik Brigade, in the
10 spring of 1993 a home guard battalion was formed in Bugojno; is that
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. In the course of the fighting, some members of the home guard
14 battalion from the village of Gaj came to the hotel -- to Hotel Kalin.
15 They came together with some civilians from that village; is that
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. The HVO military police was located in the Kalin Hotel, and they
19 resisted at all times and participated in the fighting; is that correct?
20 A. Yes, that's correct.
21 Q. In the course of the fighting, the wounded and the sick were
22 evacuated from the hospital, but the military police continued to defend
23 the Hotel Kalin; is that correct?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. You said that the shooting was terrible. Would it be correct to
1 say that from the territory of Gorica, that is to say, from Tito's -- the
2 territory of Tito's villa, the artillery also shelled the town and Hotel
3 Kalin and one shell hit the hotel; is that correct?
4 A. Yes. Yes. I apologise, but I am not aware of that artillery
5 shell hitting the hotel, but there was shooting from all side. I am
6 aware of that.
7 Q. You said that you surrendered on Saturday, so about five or six
8 days of fighting. And the soldiers you surrendered to in the Hotel Kalin
9 treated you correctly; is that correct?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. So far - and this is what you said yourself - you have given
12 statements on a number of occasions about what you experienced. Did you
13 give statements to the Prosecution of the Tribunal on the 29th of July
14 and the 21st of September, 2000?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Before that, like many others who have been imprisoned in prisons
17 in Bugojno, you had also given a statement to Stjepan Vukadin, a lawyer
18 from Bugojno; is that correct?
19 A. Yes, it is.
20 Q. We've been asked to slow down a bit, because it's necessary to
21 wait for my question to be interpreted, and then you can answer. Thank
23 As you have already said -- you spoke about events that you
24 witnessed or experienced, but certain things - for example, which BH army
25 units were involved or what the structure of the army was - these are
1 things you are not personally familiar with; is that correct?
2 A. Yes, it is.
3 Q. You also weren't familiar with the structure or the chain of
4 command, the hierarchy in the police in Bugojno; is that correct?
5 A. Yes, that's correct.
6 Q. However, at that time many people in Bugojno wore camouflage
7 uniforms and as a result it was difficult to tell who belonged to an army
8 unit or to the reserve MUP force; is that correct?
9 A. Yes, that's correct. However, there was a difference between the
10 uniforms of the Croatian army and the Muslim army.
11 Q. Yes, that's why I didn't even mention the HVO. You have already
12 spoken about this, explained this to us.
13 You were taken to the Gimnazija and you spent three or four days
14 in the basement, which you've described when answering questions put to
15 you by my learned colleague; is that correct?
16 A. Yes, that's correct.
17 Q. You were then taken to the sports hall. And would it be correct
18 to say that while you were there, while you were in the Gimnazija, you
19 were visited by Sister Pavka and by European monitors?
20 A. No, that's not correct.
21 Q. You mentioned the name of Bevrnja. And have I understood you
22 correctly? You said that he was the chief of the guards in the
24 A. No, you misunderstood me. He was the chief of the police, of the
25 military police.
1 Q. If I said that he was one of the persons in charge of the reserve
2 police force, would you agree with me?
3 A. I don't care what he was. He wasn't a man.
4 Q. You didn't know who decided that the Gimnazija should be used to
5 detain prisoners there, nor did you know at the time who was in charge of
6 the facility; is that correct?
7 A. Yes, that's correct.
8 Q. There's no reason for you not to agree with me if I say that the
9 Gimnazija was under the control of the civilian police until October
10 1993; is that correct?
11 A. Well, I wouldn't agree with you. Your military police were
13 Q. I haven't understood you correctly. I didn't have a military
14 police force.
15 A. The military police of the BH army was in the Gimnazija, and it
16 was in the Koprivica building too.
17 Q. Thank you. So you know something about the army.
18 A. Yes. I was in the town, so I should know something about it.
19 Q. So your answer to my previous question was perhaps not quite
20 precise. Thank you for your additional clarification.
21 You don't know who decided that the Iskra Stadium should be
22 transformed into a temporary prison for prisoners of war. Likewise, you
23 didn't know who was in charge of it. Is that correct?
24 A. No, I don't know.
25 Q. No one physically maltreated you in the Gimnazija; is that
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And when you were at the Iskra Stadium, no one took you out and
4 physically maltreated you either; is that correct?
5 A. Yes, that's right.
6 Q. You said that on the 30th of July you reported for work as a
7 volunteer in town. Is it correct that at the time Mladen Barnjak,
8 Berislav Dzalto [as interpreted], Perica Sistov, Ivica Bartulovic, Mladen
9 Brkic were with you? And when you were involved in this work and as you
10 passed through Bugojno, you also saw Mario Zrno, Milos Zeljko, Dragan
11 Keskic and others who were prisoners at the time. These were persons you
12 knew and saw there; is that correct?
13 A. That's right.
14 Q. While you were digging the graves, there was an armed guard
15 accompanying you, and he treated you fairly; is that correct?
16 A. Yes, someone who fled from us five minutes after he had taken us
18 Q. After 10 or 15 people from Vrbanja came and started to beat you,
19 you soon lost consciousness, as you were weak, so you were in fact not
20 really aware of what actually happened there; is that correct?
21 A. Well, I know quite a few things and there are quite a few things
22 that I don't know.
23 Q. In fact, after you were taken back to the Gimnazija, as you said,
24 after a certain period of time had elapsed, you were taken to the
25 hospital and were provided with medical treatment there. You remained
1 there until the 25th of August there; is that correct?
2 A. Yes, that's correct.
3 Q. Later you found out that your relative Mario Zrno died in Perica
4 Sistov's lap; is that correct?
5 A. No, it wasn't in the same lorry. We were thrown into the same
6 lorry together, and that's where I found out about it.
7 Q. You said that you managed to survive thanks to the fact that some
8 civilians in the town managed to provide you with food in various ways,
9 and those who received the food were able to share it with others. This
10 is how they helped everyone survive those very difficult times. Is that
12 A. That's correct.
13 Q. At that time, Sister Pavka would also visit you and she would
14 bring some essential items with her and sometimes food as well; is that
16 A. Sometimes, but that occurred very infrequently.
17 Q. She was also accompanied by a doctor, who provided you -- or who
18 provided the prisoners with certain medicine if they needed such
19 medicine; is that correct?
20 A. Yes. They would provide them with Undol [phoen], which are
21 pills, painkillers.
22 Q. You said that you heard that on one occasion they were supposed
23 to take a certain number of prisoners somewhere; however, you in fact
24 don't have any direct, firsthand information about this.
25 A. No, I can't talk about things that I have no direct information
2 Q. Are you aware of the fact that a group of Croatian intellectuals
3 asked that you not be transferred to the KP Dom in Zenica? They wanted
4 you to remain in Bugojno because they were afraid that something might
5 happen to you on the way.
6 A. I'm not aware of that.
7 Q. You are aware of the fact that a significant number of Croats
8 returned to Bugojno and they are now living in that town without any
9 particular problems; is that correct?
10 A. I haven't been to Bugojno myself, and I don't want to go there
11 either. As far as I am aware, very few Croats have returned there and
12 they aren't living very well. It's very difficult for them to find jobs,
13 so I don't know what kind of a life that is.
14 Q. Thank you very much, Mr. Zrno.
15 A. Thank you.
16 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I have no further
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I will now give the floor to
19 the other Defence team.
20 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. We
21 have no questions for this witness.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. The Judges have
23 Some questions for the witness, but first of all, I would like to ask
24 Ms. Benjamin whether she has any further questions now that the Defence
25 has concluded their cross-examination.
1 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, the Prosecution has no
2 questions at this time.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. To avoid spoiling
4 the rhythm, I think it would be best to have the break now, and we will
5 resume at about five to 4.00.
6 --- Recess taken at 3.31 p.m.
7 --- On resuming at 3.59 p.m.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] We will now resume.
9 The Judges have a few questions for you based on the answers you
10 provided to both parties.
11 Questioned by the Court:
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I will go back to the time at
13 which you became an HVO member. When you became an HVO member, did you
14 have the status of a member of the military then or were civilian Croats
15 concerned, they were asked to have a uniform and weapon in order to
16 defend the town and to guard the hospital? In your opinion, what was
17 your status? Were you still a civilian or had you actually become a real
18 member of the military?
19 A. I became a real HVO soldier.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. And did you have a
21 rank? Were you a member of a unit with a commander? What was the
23 A. Well, I was attached to the command of the Eugen Kvaternik Unit.
24 I was a soldier whose duty was to work as a guard of the military
25 hospital. I was an ordinary soldier.
1 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In order to guard the hospital,
2 what sort of a weapon did you have? Did you have a rifle? Did you have
3 a machine-gun?
4 A. I had a Kalashnikov. Our task was to be performed without the
5 use of weapons. We were to take care of the people entering the hospital
6 and they weren't supposed to enter the building with weapons. We would
7 put these weapons away in cupboards, et cetera, and then we would return
8 them when they left. We helped take charge of the wounded when they
9 arrived. Rifles weren't used, and that wasn't our task. It wasn't
10 actually necessary, because the hospital was a joint hospital.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. You said that you
12 surrendered and that you laid down your weapon. When you surrendered,
13 who did you surrender to? Do you remember who you surrendered to
15 A. There were at least 30 to 40 soldiers there. I don't remember
16 their faces at all. I don't even think that these people were people
17 from Bugojno, because if any of them were from Bugojno, I would have
18 recognised them. After having lived for 15 years in Bugojno, I can
19 recognise certain faces. These troops were from other towns in Bosnia
20 and Herzegovina. There were hardly any soldiers who were from Bugojno.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The 30 or 40 soldiers you
22 mentioned, you said in response to a question put to you a while ago that
23 they had green uniforms and they had armbands. Did you see any insignia
24 on their uniforms indicating the unit to which they belonged?
25 A. The only insignia they had -- well, all they had were these
1 lilies representing the BH army. That's what their name was.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] If I have understood you
3 correctly, if I am following you, you surrendered to soldiers who were
4 members of the BH army because they had a lily symbol on their uniforms.
5 That is what you are saying. They were therefore soldiers from the BH
7 A. That's what they called themselves.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Were you able to speak to these
10 A. No.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] When you went to the detention
12 facility -- because we know, as you said a minute ago, that you were
13 detained. You said that it was a very bad experience -- the people who
14 guarded you, were they the same soldiers who had arrested you?
15 A. No, they weren't.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The men guarding you, did they
17 also have uniforms with insignia on them or not?
18 A. Yes, they did have uniforms with insignia.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The insignia they had on their
20 uniforms, were these insignia of the same kind as those that you saw on
21 the 30 or 40 soldiers who had arrested you? Did they have the same kind
22 of insignia on their uniforms?
23 A. Yes, they did.
24 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And the men guarding you, were
25 they people from Bosnia and Herzegovina or were they inhabitants who
1 perhaps didn't live in Bugojno, perhaps they lived in some other town?
2 Were they people from Bosnia and Herzegovina?
3 A. In the Iskra Stadium, the people were from Bosnia and Herzegovina
4 and they were mostly people from Bugojno, people whom I knew.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] No, but the soldiers who
6 guarded you, were they from the region? Were they your compatriots?
7 Were they from Bosnia and Herzegovina?
8 A. Yes. As I have already said, yes, the people at the stadium who
9 guarded us were people from Bugojno.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. As you were a
11 member of the military, you were guarded by members of the military.
12 Were you questioned and was the questioning conducted in accordance with
13 the Geneva Conventions concerning prisoners of war? Did they ask you for
14 your name and the unit that you belonged to? Were you questioned?
15 A. Yes, we were questioned by their superiors.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And what were you asked when
17 you were questioned? What sort of information were you asked to provide?
18 A. Naturally, they asked us which unit we belonged to. They asked
19 us whether we had been in action. They wanted to know what sort of
20 things we had been involved in and where we had been during the conflict.
21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] A minute ago, in response to
22 the Defence counsel -- a Defence counsel question you said that you
23 personally hadn't been beaten or tortured. You were speaking about
25 A. I think you have misunderstood something. I was beaten. I was
1 hit at the Vrbanja cemetery while we were digging graves there, and as a
2 result I had to spend 25 days in the hospital. I barely remained alive.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I was going to mention this
4 incident at the cemetery, but my question concerned the detention
5 facility -- the detention facilities; that is to say, it concerned the
6 Gimnazija and the stadium.
7 I'll now address the issue of the cemetery. You said that you
8 went to the cemetery to work. Could you tell us what this work consisted
10 A. As far as I myself am -- are concerned and my four colleagues, we
11 dug graves so that they could bury their dead. It was by the River
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] This was to bury the dead.
14 Dead members of the HVO or dead members of the BH army? Who were they?
15 A. I think that these people were Muslim civilians.
16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So they were Muslim civilians.
17 Why were you beaten, since you had been taken there to dig
18 graves? Could you tell us the reason for which you were beaten.
19 A. If I only knew I wouldn't be so embittered. Unfortunately, these
20 people knew me well. They all knew who I was, what I did, and they knew
21 that I didn't make a distinction between Croats, Serbs, and Muslims. I
22 couldn't work. I was exhausted. I couldn't stand on my two feet. I had
23 suffered and they beat me. Why? You have to ask them. I don't know. I
24 wouldn't be able to tell you.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Those who beat you, did they
1 wear uniforms or did they wear camouflage uniforms? And did they bear
2 the insignia of the army?
3 A. They wore the BiH army uniforms. Among them, there were also the
4 military police belonging to the BiH army. You could recognise them by
5 the white belts that they had.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you have explained to us
7 that in the cemetery you were beaten. There were two groups of soldiers:
8 There were the BiH army soldiers and there were also some other soldiers
9 who were military police, who wore the typical white belts. What did the
10 military police do, according to you?
11 A. Well, they came to kill us. There were some blood ties involved.
12 The Velagic family were there who had committed the crime [as
13 interpreted], and they were aware that none of us did anything wrong. I
14 didn't do anything wrong and Mario didn't do anything wrong. And they
15 knew that that was the case with everybody else who was in the cemetery.
16 Because in Bugojno everything is known; they knew who did what and they
17 knew that we didn't have anything to do with the killings.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have just told us that the
19 military police who were there and who beat you actually came to
20 retaliate because of what had happened to others and that you were the
21 one that they suspected that had to do with the crimes that had taken
22 place. Is that what you told me?
23 A. They could not suspect that. They knew where I was and what I
24 did. Even this military policeman, Safet Velagic, was in the military
25 hospital with me three days before the conflict and we had a long
1 conversation about all sorts of things. So he knew who I was, where I
2 was, and what I did. They did not suspect me. They didn't want to take
3 their vengeance on me. They were just carried away by the victory. They
4 were grieving for the members of their family, which is understandable.
5 However, what I can't understand is that somebody could beat another
6 human being who had been beaten already, who had been weakened,
7 exhausted. And I can't forgive them that.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You have told us that the
9 military policeman whom you knew, whose name was Safet Velagic --
10 A. Yes, that's correct.
11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And this Safet Velagic was
12 present in the cemetery and he was present at the moment when you were
13 beaten there. Is that what you have told us?
14 A. Yes.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In the cemetery where you were
16 with others performing some work, you told us that you were exhausted.
17 How many of you -- actually, how many military policemen and soldiers
18 were there at the time? How many troops were there?
19 A. I believe that there were five or six men there.
20 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Among those five or six, did
21 you see somebody who acted as a leader or were they all the same? Was
22 there anybody with a certain authority who issued commands or orders to
23 those who guarded you?
24 A. There was nobody. Muhko Velagic was in charge and he was the one
25 who was involved in the incident. He was the one who beat me and Mario
1 the most, and it was under his orders that all of those things happened.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you are telling us that
3 Muhko Velagic was the person who seemed to have been in charge.
4 A. Muhko.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Is it Muhko or Vuko?
6 A. M-u-h-k-o, Muhko.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You were injured and you were
8 then taken to the hospital. That's what you told us.
9 A. That's correct.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In the hospital, did you tell
11 either the doctor or somebody else what had happened? Did you tell them
12 that you had been injured and how it had happened? Did you tell that to
13 those who looked after you?
14 A. Yes. I explained everything to Dr. Karadza.
15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You explained everything to
16 Dr. Karadza. And Dr. Karadza, was he a military doctor or was he a
18 A. Dr. Karadza was a member of the HVO, an HVO doctor.
19 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] He was an HVO doctor. And
20 Dr. Karadza, what did he tell you after that, after you had told him what
21 had happened? What did he tell you? Is -- did he tell you that he is
22 going to inform somebody else, some other authorities? What did he tell
24 A. Dr. Karadza examined me and he separated me from the others on
25 his own initiative. The police officers were reluctant to leave me there
1 because then they had their orders to return me to the Gimnazija. But
2 Dr. Karadza negotiated them [as interpreted] and managed to keep me in
3 the hospital. I don't think anybody dared tell him anything. And I
4 didn't have any visitors. Nobody dared visit me. My friends didn't
5 visit me. I don't know whether Dr. Karadza managed to inform anybody or
6 not, but I don't think he dared talk about anything.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] So you're saying that the
8 police officers, the military police departed, they left the hospital,
9 and they went to the school. They left you in the hospital; is that
11 A. Yes, that is correct.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] A little while ago in replying
13 to a question you were talking about your relative, Mario, and you
14 explained that you were in the lorry together with him, in the van. Can
15 you please be more specific about what you told us a little while ago.
16 A. The two of us had been beaten at the same time. When I fainted,
17 he would be beaten; and the other way around. After all the beatings, we
18 were thrown together into a lorry. I was really in a bad shape. Mario
19 was even in a worse shape. Perica Sistov took him in his lap. He tried
20 to help him. Four or five minutes later on the way back to the reception
21 camp Mario succumbed to his wounds. He died.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] You are telling us that as a
23 result of the beatings you and your relative were in a bad shape. You
24 were thrown into that vehicle, the van, and that in that van your
25 relative died and you witnessed the death of your relative in this van.
1 You saw that.
2 A. That is correct.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And you saw him. You saw that
4 he wasn't moving, that he was dead.
5 A. My other colleagues who were in the van, Perica Sistov and
6 others, established the fact that he was dead and they told me that he
7 was dead.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And the van -- I'm trying to
9 follow what you're telling us. When you were taken to the hospital, what
10 happened to the body of your relative who -- which was in the van at the
12 A. I've already explained. They did not bring the van to the
13 hospital. The van stayed by the grammar school and my relative was taken
14 to the medical centre in the convent. He belonged to the 1st Battalion.
15 There were several reception centres or reception camps. There were
16 several locations where people were received. I don't know how many
17 there were.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] In responding your question --
19 to a question, you said that you were liberated after having spent
20 several months in detention. When you were liberated, were you given a
21 piece of paper, a document? What did they tell you on the day when you
22 were made a free man again? What did they tell you?
23 A. We did not receive any papers. The only thing that happened
24 while we were in the camp was that the Red Cross came and made a list of
25 our names and they gave us a number each. We didn't receive any paper
1 after that. We were only told to report to the hospital and be examined
2 there. And at that moment, we only wanted to feel free again and to be
3 joined with our families, so I don't think that any of us actually went
4 to the hospital to be examined. That's what happened.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] What you are telling us
6 happened ten years ago, but it seems that you're still suffering some
7 psychological consequences of what happened to you. Are you under any
8 medical care? Do you still suffer any consequences? Do you still have
9 some problems as a result of what happened to you?
10 A. I did seek medical help for five or six years. I was doing it in
11 vain. Finally I was told that I was a hypochondriac, so I stopped
12 seeking medical help. I am working. I'm trying to live with my family,
13 and we'll see how it goes. I'm not under any medical care at the moment.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'm going to ask the other
15 Judges if they have any questions to put to you.
16 JUDGE SWART: Just two or three follow-up questions.
17 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the Judge, please. Microphone
18 for Judge Swart, please.
19 JUDGE SWART: Just two or three follow-up questions. You told us
20 about the fact that you were beaten and that your nephew was also
21 beaten, and you told us also that you were then treated in the hospital
22 for 25 days, if I understand well. What were your wounds? What
23 were ...?
24 A. I was black and blue from my loins up to my head. I had problems
25 with my kidneys, with urination. I am still suffering some problems with
1 my spine, because I had a haematoma on my back and I still feel the
2 consequences, and I don't even want to go into the psychological problems
3 that I still have.
4 JUDGE SWART: Have you also broken some ribs or arms or bones
5 or ...?
6 A. No, I didn't suffer any fractures, no, luckily enough.
7 JUDGE SWART: And your family member, Mario, has he fractures?
8 A. I don't know. I wouldn't be able to tell you. He was exhumed
9 only five or six years after that.
10 JUDGE SWART: [Previous translation continues] ... by fists or by
11 feet or otherwise?
12 A. The rifle butt, boots, stones, police battalions, everything,
13 everything. They treated him like an animal. They were animals. The
14 way they treated him was totally inhumane.
15 JUDGE SWART: If I understood you well, you had been volunteering
16 to work outside the place where you were held, detained.
17 A. That's correct.
18 JUDGE SWART: Is this also true for your work at the graveyard,
19 the cemetery?
20 A. That's correct.
21 JUDGE SWART: If you volunteered to do these things and you
22 are -- and you are beaten, then I suppose you don't want to do this
24 A. I would never have volunteered if I had known, but I didn't know
25 it. I volunteered because Mladen Barnjak, a colleague of mine who often
1 volunteered and went with these groups, told me that they were sent to
2 the Croatian houses to collect food and that this was an opportunity for
3 them to change clothes and to have some food, and that's what I thought
4 would happen if I volunteer.
5 JUDGE SWART: But you did work there for 15 days, if I'm not
7 A. I'm afraid that's not what happened. The cemetery is one thing
8 and the 15 days that I spent working was on the front line, where I was
9 digging trenches, and that is the 15-day period that I was referring to.
10 JUDGE SWART: And how many days did you work at the cemetery,
12 A. It was two, three, or four hours. Hours, not days. However, it
13 seemed like an eternity to me.
14 JUDGE SWART: I see. And this was also on the basis of voluntary
16 A. Yes.
17 JUDGE SWART: Okay. Thank you very much.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Defence counsel, do you
19 have any questions that arise from the Judges' questions? You have the
21 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I do have a few questions,
22 but I don't know whether before that my learned friend is going to be
23 given the opportunity to put questions to the witness, so who is going to
24 be first? I am -- since this is a Prosecution witness ...
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Yes. Since this is a
1 Prosecution question, the Prosecution will be given the floor after you,
2 so you will have the floor first; the Prosecution will follow; and then
3 if there are any additional questions, we'll see what -- how we go about
5 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Very well, then. Thank you, Your
7 Further cross-examination by Ms. Residovic:
8 Q. [Interpretation] Witness, you told me a little while ago that
9 Dragan Keskic, Perica Sistov, your cousin Mario, Zeljko Milos and others
10 worked in the cemetery.
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. Your cousin Mario died, but the other persons also witnessed what
13 had happened there; is that correct?
14 A. Yes, it is.
15 Q. They also would not have any reason to represent the situation in
16 any other way than it really happened.
17 A. That's correct.
18 Q. These persons were also interviewed by the lawyer Vukadin about
19 the things that they lived there; are you aware of that?
20 A. No, I'm not.
21 Q. If I were to put to you that Perica Sistov in his statement that
22 he gave to the lawyer mentioned that while you worked you were guarded by
23 six guards -- actually, while the six of you worked, there were two
24 guards with you and that these two did not provoke you, did not ill-treat
25 you in any way, they gave you water and cigarettes, would that be
2 A. No. No.
3 Q. If Perica Sistov would also say that at the time when the other
4 14 prisoners came, amongst whom Mario Zrno, that at that time or a bit
5 later some other men, Muslim men came, amongst whom Zilhad Hodzic from
6 Vrbanja, whose father worked in the gas station, and also Mujo Pelagic
7 [phoen] who was the owner of a restaurant. That's when the ill-treatment
8 started, and the only person who did not ill-treat you was Zilhad Hodzic.
9 He didn't do that because we worked together and he took a distance from
10 the group and only observed what was going on. "I can't confirm who were
11 the persons beating Mario, because -- Zrno -- because I didn't know these
12 people or I knew them only superficially. I believe that those people
13 who lived with them in Vrbanja could confirm that because they knew
15 And if I told you that Perica Sistov said all that, would that be
16 the correct description of what happened?
17 A. Yes, this is a correct description, because they turned our backs
18 to the guards. They were ordered not to look in their faces.
19 Q. Mr. Zrno, if Dragan Keskic described the same event in the
20 following way: "Members of the Muslim army and civilians who had died
21 during the conflicts and whose bodies had to be buried, obviously this
22 was the area of conflict and it was not easy to tell who was a soldier,
23 who was a civilian, and who was shooting and who was not. Our men were
24 sent there. Mario Zrno was one of them. During the burial of their
25 graves [as interpreted], Mario was killed with shovels, axes, and other
1 things that these people who were there had in their hands. So what is
2 important is that the brigade policeman who was there and who were
3 supposed to guard us simply could not offer us any protection. And Mario
4 Zrno was beaten by everybody, by the women who arrived there, by
5 grandmothers, by the elderly who were grieving the deaths of their close
6 family," would this be the correct description of what had happened in
7 the Crnice cemetery? And this description was provided by Dragan Keskic.
8 A. Yes, that is correct.
9 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Can the witness be provided with
10 a document that the Defence received on the 18th February 2004. We have
11 an ample number of copies according to Rule 68. We have an ample number
12 of copies for the Judges, for the registry, for the Prosecutors, and our
14 Q. If Zeljko Milos in his statement to the Prosecution on the 16th
15 February 2004 at 10.00 said as follows: "While Mr. Milos was digging
16 graves in Crnice at the beginning of August 1993 as a prisoner of the BiH
17 army, one of the two brothers, the Velagic brothers, Safet and Muhko, one
18 of the two brothers hit Marko Zrno twice with a shovel. As a result of
19 that, Mr. Zrno fainted, said Milos, and Mr. Zrno did not come back with
20 Mr. Milos and the other detainees to the furniture salon where he had
21 been put previously. The brothers that Zeljko Milos named are the
22 Velagici brothers, both Bosniak Muslims. They were both civilians, said
23 Milos, and in the cemetery they attended the burial of the dead bodies."
24 Would this statement given by Zeljko Milos represent a correct
25 description of the incident?
1 A. Mr. Muhko Velagic wore the uniform of the BiH army. I guarantee
2 you that.
3 Q. Thank you very much.
4 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, the Defence would
5 like to tender this document into evidence.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Benjamin.
7 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, the Prosecution has no
8 objections, because this is under Rule 68, and we certainly won't object.
9 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Mr. Registrar,
10 could we have an exhibit number for these two documents.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the document will get the exhibit
12 number DH341, and the B/C/S translation gets the exhibit number
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I have
16 no further questions.
17 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'll now give the floor to the
18 other Defence team.
19 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.
20 Mr. Kubura's Defence has no questions for this witness.
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Is there anything -- is there
22 something I could ask you? Could I ask Defence counsel something?
23 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] As a rule, Defence counsel is
24 supposed to ask the questions, but you could put the question to me and
25 then we will see. Tell me what you wanted to say.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honours. I would
2 like to ask Defence counsel where the other people from the list that
3 Ms. Residovic read out are, where their -- I would like to ask them where
4 their statements are. Can they tell us where Niko Dzaja is or Zoran
5 Galic is? Read the names out, Ms. Residovic. Read them out.
6 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Chamber has taken note of
7 what you have said.
8 Ms. Benjamin, do you have any questions for the witness?
9 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Just two, Mr. President.
10 Further examination by Ms. Henry-Benjamin:
11 Q. Mr. Zrno, in reply to Justice Swart's question with respect -- or
12 the President's question with respect to being informed under the Geneva
13 Conventions, you said you were questioned by the superiors in accordance
14 with the Geneva Conventions. Would you be able to assist the Tribunal?
15 Who were these superiors that you spoke of?
16 A. I only know the gentleman is a lawyer who worked in Bugojno. He
17 was from Tomislavgrad. He was a compatriot of mine, and he behaved in a
18 very correct and fair manner. The statement I gave was signed. I
19 answered the questions, and that was it.
20 Q. Thank you. And as to the names that my friend read out, could
21 you tell us with respect to the two -- aside from the two that were
22 mentioned, could you tell us what you know of these persons now.
23 A. I know that I saw them. Niko Dzaja, I saw him for the last time
24 at that cemetery, whereas I saw Zoran Galic later on at the stadium. And
25 the other 18 were taken away to the BH Bank for interrogation. I never
1 heard anything about them. As for Mr. Strujic who helped the BH army a
2 lot, I never saw him again. So maybe they could answer those questions.
3 Perhaps they could say where these people are now. To this very day, no
4 one knows where they are; no one knows where their bones remain.
5 Q. Thank you.
6 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, that's the end of the
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Microphone not activated]
9 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the Presiding Judge, please.
10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Witness, this concludes your
11 examination. We would like to thank you for having come to testify as a
12 witness for the Prosecution in The Hague. You have answered all the
13 questions put to you by the Prosecution and by Defence counsel. You have
14 also answered the questions put to you by the Judges.
15 We have listened to your testimony very carefully, and we wish
16 you all the best in the life you are trying to build for yourself at the
17 moment. I would also like to wish you a good trip home.
18 And I will now ask the usher to escort you out of the courtroom,
19 and the Victims and Witnesses Unit will help you to go either back to the
20 hotel or to the airport.
21 Thank you, Witness.
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours.
23 But there is another question I would like to put to you, if I
24 may. I would like to put it to you.
25 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Please go ahead. What would
1 you like to say?
2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I came here as a witness. I don't
3 know the accused. Were the people accused for Bugojno Dzevad Mlaco,
4 Abdula Jelac and Senad Dautovic? They were the main people in charge of
5 the conflict in Bugojno. They were in charge of the entire action. This
6 is what I'm interested in.
7 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. The Trial Chamber
8 is not dealing with their case, so I can't answer the question you have
9 put to us. But I would like to thank you and I will ask the usher to
10 escort you out of the courtroom.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
12 [The witness withdrew]
13 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I'll give the floor to the
14 Prosecution now.
15 As far as the documents that I mentioned are concerned, were you
16 able to take stock of the situation during the break? And I'll first
17 deal with the issue of the documents and then I will give you the floor.
18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, it had to do with
19 the previous evidence, and I thought it would be best if I said something
20 for the sake of the transcript. I would like to inform the Trial Chamber
21 that a document that we handed over as a document exhibit was one that we
22 received from the Prosecution, which withdrew a witness who was supposed
23 to be heard on a given day and before the Trial Chamber. As I hadn't
24 explained that, when I was tendering the document into evidence, I
25 thought that it was my duty to inform the Trial Chamber of the fact.
1 Thank you.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you for that information.
3 Ms. Benjamin, to address the issue of the documents again.
4 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Mr. President, maybe I should start with the
5 less complex ones first. And I'm happy to inform the Trial Chamber that
6 I have some translations to hand over, and they would be the French
7 translations to 12 documents. The Prosecution Exhibit numbers were P208,
8 the English, P214, P223, P225, 226, 227, 264, 273, 311, 378, 379, and
9 380. I'm happy to hand over the French translations and ask that same be
10 tendered into evidence, please. The English and the B/C/S have already
11 been tendered.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. These documents
13 have numbers in B/C/S and in English. It's necessary to give them a
14 number in French.
15 Mr. Registrar.
16 THE REGISTRAR: The French translation of P208 gets the exhibit
17 number P208/F; the French translation of P214 gets the exhibit number
18 P214/F; the French translation of the exhibit P223 gets the exhibit
19 number P223/F; the French translation of exhibit P225 gets the exhibit
20 number P225/F; the French translation of the exhibit number P226 gets the
21 exhibit number P226/F; the French translation of the exhibit number P227
22 gets the exhibit number P227/F; the French translation of the exhibit
23 number P264 get it is exhibit number P264/F; the French translation of
24 the exhibit number P-- I apologise, 273 get it is exhibit number P273/F;
25 the French translation for the exhibit P311 gets the exhibit number
1 P311/F; the French translation of the exhibit P378 gets the exhibit
2 number P378/F; the French translation of the exhibit P379 gets the
3 exhibit number P379/F; and the French translation of the exhibit P380
4 gets the exhibit number P380/F.
5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Ms. Benjamin, you
6 still have the floor.
7 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: With respect to the balance of translations,
8 most of the translations have been filed in draft form and I have been
9 informed that we will have the final drafts on all those ready on
10 Thursday, along with the few that had no drafts at all, those will be
11 ready for Thursday, which will have completed our translations.
12 Then with respect to the documents that had the internal OTP
13 numbers and we couldn't find any category as to P or to contested
14 documents, a few more has been drawn to our attention, and with the
15 exception of one, I would wish to make the application or to ask the
16 Court to withdraw same, and those would be internal numbers 950, 952,
17 958, 959, 960, 962, 963, 964, and 965. Most of those documents are dated
18 before the indictment period, and for reasons the Prosecution has decided
19 to withdraw same.
20 With respect to 953, that is the same as contested document 451.
21 451 apparently was tendered as an excerpt and subsequently the Court
22 requested that the whole document be filed, and I'm told that the whole
23 document has since been filed, so 953 is really contested document 451.
24 I would continue in my personal capacity to ensure that we get
25 all the documents ready and forwarded to the Trial Chamber by Thursday,
1 as promised.
2 I think that would have taken care of everything, Mr. President.
3 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Reading the
4 transcript, and having followed what you said, the Trial Chamber
5 understands that the situation is as follows: You are withdrawing the
6 documents under 959, 952, 958, 960, 962, 963, 964, and 965. You are
7 withdrawing these documents because they are outside of the Prosecution's
8 indictment period, so you want to withdraw them.
9 You said that 953 is a document which is in fact identical to
10 document 451. It appears that this is a document which is an extract,
11 whereas 953 is the complete document. So 953 corresponds to 451. That's
12 what you have said.
13 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: Yes, Mr. President, that's correct.
14 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Prosecution stated that the
15 problem of the documents has been completely resolved, apart from the
16 fact that there are a number of documents -- a few documents that are
17 still being translated and we will be provided with them by Thursday at
18 the latest. Naturally, we will check this. This is what we have been
19 doing for weeks now. But we're heading in the right direction,
21 As I said yesterday, we will be rendering our final decision on
22 the documents on Friday. Our decision will be rendered on Friday, as I
23 said. It's a very long decision, as it consists of a number of pages.
24 We are in the process of completing it. You will have it by Friday. It
25 will be filed with the Registry at about noon or 1.00 p.m., so you should
1 then have this document -- this written document on the admission of
3 As you said yesterday, the -- as we said yesterday, the last
4 hearing should be held on Friday, that should be the 23rd, the 23rd of
5 July. According to the schedule, the hearing should start at 9.00. As I
6 said yesterday, there will be two stages of the hearing: The registry
7 will give us the final exhibit numbers for documents admitted in
8 accordance with our decision which will have been rendered one week in
9 advance. The registry will provide us with the numbers. In order to
10 save time, the registrar could perhaps already establish -- or draft a
11 document with the numbers in question. After that stage, the Chamber
12 will give the floor to Ms. Benjamin so that she can officially state that
13 the Prosecution has completed the presentation of its case. So these are
14 the issues we will be dealing with on Friday, the 23rd of July.
15 Which then we will be entering the framework already mentioned.
16 We'll be following the schedule that has been referred to in an oral
17 decision rendered yesterday.
18 Are there any submissions that Defence counsel would like to
19 make? Yes, Mrs. Residovic.
20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, when examining the
21 Witness ZP, we requested that two documents be marked for identification
22 until the documents had been translated. The documents concern DH217 ID
23 and DH218 ID. We received the translations of these documents from CLSS
24 today, so I would like these translations to be provided to the Chamber,
25 to the registry, and to the Prosecution. And could final exhibit numbers
1 be given to these documents.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Ms. Benjamin, we have two
3 documents, DH217 and DH218. They've been marked for identification. We
4 have now been provided with the translations of these documents. What is
5 the Prosecution's position with regard to these two documents? DH217 is
6 a table [as interpreted], and DH217 is the translation of a document from
7 Mr. Bisic. These are "Instructions on Cooperation between the Civilian
8 Protection and the Armed Forces in a Time of War in the Republic of
9 Bosnia and Herzegovina." What is your position?
10 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: The Prosecution has no objections.
11 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: DH218 is a table.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, could we have
13 these two final exhibit numbers.
14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the document DH217 ID gets the
15 final exhibit number DH217, and the English translation gets the exhibit
16 number DH217/E; the document DH218 ID gets the final exhibit number
17 DH218, and the English translation gets the exhibit number DH218/E.
18 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, we have one other
19 request to make: When examining the witness, the Judge Vlado Adamovic,
20 the Defence counsel tendered into evidence records of an on-site
21 investigation which had to do with the murder of four HVO members and the
22 kidnapping of Zivko Totic. A partial translation was also provided. The
23 Chamber admitted this into evidence, and the number was DH340. The
24 Defence has obtained a translation of the entire record of the on-site
25 investigation, so we suggest that the exhibit be replaced by the exhibit
1 that has a complete translation.
2 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Do you have the
3 document with you? So DH340 only consisted of partial translations, or
4 it was only a partial translation. We now have a complete document.
5 Ms. Benjamin should be shown the document.
6 The date is the 15th of April, 1993, the date of this complete
7 document. It concerns the investigation site, and the investigation was
8 carried out by the Judge Mirsad Strika [phoen].
9 Ms. Benjamin, you have no objections to raise to having the
10 former document replaced by this new one?
11 MS. HENRY-BENJAMIN: No objections, Mr. President.
12 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Mr. Registrar, the
13 document we have just been provided with by the Defence is under number
14 DH340, and the former document, the old document, will be replaced by
15 this new one.
16 THE REGISTRAR: The document -- the initially tendered version of
17 DH340/E is replaced by the new tendered version.
18 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
19 Yes. You still have the floor, Defence Counsel.
20 MS. RESIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. We
21 have no other issues to raise. Thank you.
22 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Mr. Bourgon, you
23 have familiarised yourself with the memo. We still don't have it. We
24 haven't had the time to have a look at it. But you have no comments?
25 MR. BOURGON: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. I would
1 prefer to wait for the Trial Chamber to examine it, and then I'll have
2 time to analyse the response, and perhaps at the last hearing, if
3 necessary, I might make some submissions.
4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Bourgon.
5 I'll now turn to the other Defence team.
6 MR. IBRISIMOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President. We
7 have no submissions to make.
8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Very well. Having dealt with
9 all the items on the agenda, I will now -- we will now adjourn, and I
10 will see everyone at the hearing on Friday, the 23rd of July at 9.00.
11 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 5.06 p.m.,
12 to be reconvened on Friday, the 23rd day of
13 July, 2004, at 9.00 a.m.