International Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Case No.IT-95-5


  1. (10.00)
  2. MR GOLDSTONE: Your Honours, I appear, together with the
  3. Deputy Prosecutor, Mr Blewitt, and the senior trial
  4. attorney, Mr Niemann.
  5. JUDGE McDONALD: The appearance by the Amicus Curiae?
  6. MADAM VIDOVIC:(original in Bosnian): Vasvija Vidovic.
  7. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: We are having a problem.
  8. MR GOLDSTONE: There is no English translation from the
  9. Serbo-Croat.
  10. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Will Mr Prosecutor now present his
  11. Application?
  12. MR GOLDSTONE: Your Honour, with your Honour's leave I will
  13. ask Mr Blewitt to present the Application on our
  14. behalf.
  15. Your Honour, last week this Tribunal's other
  16. Trial Chamber granted an application by the Prosecutor
  17. relating to the deferral by the Government of the
  18. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina of its investigations
  19. and prosecutions into alleged crimes committed by
  20. Bosnian Croat forces against the civilian population of
  21. the Lasva River Valley in Central Bosnia.
  22. The present application before this Trial Chamber
  23. is a proposal by the Prosecutor for the Government of
  24. the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina to defer other
  25. investigations and prosecutions to the Tribunal. On

  1. this occasion, the Prosecutor is seeking to have the
  2. Bosnian Government's investigations into the alleged
  3. criminal activities of Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic
  4. and Mico Stanisic transferred to the Tribunal.
  5. This particular deferral application is in
  6. conformity with the Prosecutor's policy to investigate
  7. the individual criminal responsibility of persons in
  8. positions of superior authority and control. This
  9. policy includes the investigation of individuals who
  10. gave the unlawful orders to commit crimes over which
  11. this Tribunal has jurisdiction. The policy also
  12. includes the investigation of criminality based on the
  13. doctrine of command responsibility, which, in the
  14. context of this case, refers to the investigation of
  15. persons in positions of superior authority who fail or
  16. failed to prevent the criminal behaviour or to deter the
  17. unlawful behaviour of their subordinates. This imputed
  18. responsibility applies if the person in superior
  19. authority knew or had reason to know that the
  20. subordinates were about to commit or had committed
  21. crimes and yet failed to take the necessary and
  22. reasonable steps to prevent the commission of such
  23. crimes or to punish those who had committed them.
  24. I would now like to just outline the extent of the
  25. Prosecutor's investigation in this particular case.


  1. When the Office of the Prosecutor became
  2. operational in mid-1994, a significant focus of the
  3. initial investigations involved persons in positions of
  4. authority who were responsible for serious violations of
  5. international humanitarian law in the former
  6. Yugoslavia. This is still the current situation, and
  7. will continue to be the case.
  8. In relation to allegations that such serious
  9. violations have been committed by Bosnian Serbs in
  10. Bosnia and Herzegovina, the investigations by the Office
  11. of the Prosecutor have concentrated on the individual
  12. criminal responsibility of the leadership of the Bosnian
  13. Serb administration in Pale.
  14. In relation to these investigations, the
  15. Prosecutor is investigating a wide range of allegations
    covering offences within the competence of the Tribunal,
  16. including genocide, serious offences against civilians,
  17. such as murder, rape, torture and other acts of cruelty,
  18. as well as the destruction of cultural and historical
  19. property and monuments. These same offences are also
  20. being investigated by the authorities of the Government
  21. of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, but I will
  22. deal with that issue later in these submissions. In all
  23. of the Tribunal's investigations involving allegations
  24. against Bosnian Serbs, the alleged criminal

  1. responsibility of Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic has
  2. been a central focus from the outset, and in more recent
  3. times, the investigations have included Mico Stanisic.
  4. The Prosecutor has already issued indictments
  5. against other individuals for genocide, murder, rape,
  6. mistreatment of civilians, torture and other offences
  7. arising from the operation of detention camps and from
  8. attacks on unarmed civilians. In relation to these
  9. indictments, the Prosecutor is further examining the
  10. individual criminal responsibilities for those crimes of
  11. persons in leadership positions, including Radovan
  12. Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic.
  13. One significant investigation being undertaken by
  14. the Prosecutor, but which at this stage has not resulted
  15. in the issue of indictments, relates to the protracted
  16. siege of Sarajevo, where allegations include past and
  17. continuing unlawful shelling and sniping incidents. As
  18. a result of such incidents, many thousands of civilians
  19. have been killed and injured. Non-military buildings,
  20. such as hospitals and cultural structures, have also
  21. been unlawfully targeted. In particular, the Prosecutor
  22. is investigating the alleged deliberate and systematic
  23. sniping campaign directed against the civilian
  24. population, including the elderly and young children, as
  25. well as the commission of sexual assaults, other attacks

  1. on civilians (for example, whilst travelling in trams,
  2. standing in bread lines and attending funerals). Other
  3. alleged offences being investigated by the Prosecutor
  4. relate to the unlawful attacks upon members of
  5. humanitarian agencies, the United Nations peacekeeping
  6. forces, humanitarian aid convoys and manned aircraft at
  7. Sarajevo Airport. In the Sarajevo investigation, the
  8. Prosecutor is examining the individual criminal
  9. responsibility of persons in leadership positions, in
  10. particular Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic.
  11. It is stated in the schedule attached to the
  12. Prosecutor's application in this case that "Radovan
  13. Karadzic was born on 19th June 1945 in the municipality
  14. of Savnik of the Republic of Montenegro. He is, by
  15. profession, a psychiatrist, who worked in the
  16. Neuro-psychiatric Clinic of the University Medical
  17. Centre in Sarajevo. He was a founding member, and
  18. President, of the Serbian Democratic Party, of what was
  19. then the Socialist Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
  20. After the first multi-party elections in the Republic,
  21. Radovan Karadzic emerged as the leader of the dominant
  22. political party among the Bosnian Serbs and played an
  23. active part in the national political life of the
  24. country, emphasising Serbian nationalist sentiments.
  25. Radovan Karadzic is one of the main architects of that

  1. party's political programme involving extreme
  2. nationalist and ethnic policies and objectives. Radovan
  3. Karadzic became the first President of the Bosnian Serb
  4. administration in Pale. The constitution of this
  5. administration provides that the President commands its
  6. armed forces. Radovan Karadzic exercises his power and
  7. control from Pale, a town near Sarajevo. Radovan
  8. Karadzic has acted as, and has been dealt with
  9. internationally as, the President of the Bosnian Serb
  10. administration in Pale. In that capacity, Radovan
  11. Karadzic has, amongst other things, participated in
  12. international negotiations and has personally made
  13. agreements on such matters as ceasefires and
  14. humanitarian relief that have, in fact, been
  15. implemented."
  16. In relation to the suspect Ratko Mladic, he was
  17. born in 1943 in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
  18. He is a career military officer and gained his first
  19. command in 1965. In the summer of 1991, he was
  20. appointed to command the 9th Corps of the Yugoslav
  21. People's Army, otherwise known as the JNA. This was in
  22. the Knin area of the Republic of Croatia. Subsequently,
  23. he assumed command of the forces of the Second Military
  24. District of the JNA, which effectively became the
  25. Bosnian Serb Army. In that capacity he has negotiated,

  1. among other things, ceasefire and prisoner exchange
  2. agreements that have in fact been implemented.

  3. Both Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic have been
  4. appraised repeatedly, through international media
  5. reports, reports of governments and non-governmental
  6. organisations, and through reports and resolutions of
  7. the United Nations and other international
    organisations, of the criminal acts amounting to
  8. violations of international humanitarian law allegedly
  9. committed by forces under their control. Part of the
    Prosecutor's investigations involves the apparent
  10. failure of these two suspects to take the necessary and
  11. reasonable steps to prevent or repress the commission of
  12. such crimes or to punish those who have committed them.

  13. The third suspect named in the Prosecutor's
    application, Mico Stanisic, was born on 30th June 1954
  14. near Pale in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. He
    was the first Minister of Internal Affairs of the
  15. Bosnian Serb administration in Pale, and in that
    capacity he was responsible for the regular and special
  16. police forces at both the regional and local level in
    the territory which was under Bosnian Serb control. The
  17. Prosecutor's investigations involve allegations that
  18. those police forces were actively involved in organising
  19. a campaign of terror against the non-Serbian population


  1. of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
  2. I would now like, your Honours, to turn to the
  3. investigations which are currently being undertaken by
  4. the Government of the Republic of Bosnia and
  5. Herzegovina.
  6. The Schedule attached to the Prosecutor's
  7. application in this matter sets out the nature of the
  8. investigations being conducted by the Government of the
  9. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, which involves
  10. investigations into war crimes and violations of the
  11. Criminal Law of the Republic, including genocide, war
  12. crimes against the civilian population and the
  13. destruction of cultural and historical monuments. A
  14. number of the persons are named in these investigations,
  15. including Radovan Karadzic, the president of the Bosnian
  16. Serb administration in Pale; Ratko Mladic, the military
  17. commander of the Bosnian Serb armed forces; and Mico
  18. Stanisic, the former minister of internal affairs of
  19. that administration. National warrants of arrest have
  20. been issued in respect of these named suspects, which
  21. authorise the detention of the suspects in custody for a
  22. period of one month to enable the Bosnian Government's
  23. investigations to continue.
  24. I would now like to address the Trial Chamber in
  25. relation to the reasons for the present application.

  1. Firstly, there is no contest that the national
  2. investigations and criminal proceedings have been
  3. instituted against Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and
  4. Mico Stanisic by the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina
  5. for crimes alleged to have taken place in its
  6. territory. In our submission, these national
  7. investigations and criminal proceedings involve issues
  8. closely related to, or otherwise involve, significant
  9. factual or legal questions which may have implications
  10. for investigations or prosecutions before this Tribunal.
  11. Secondly, the Prosecutor of this Tribunal is
  12. currently conducting investigations into crimes within
  13. the jurisdiction of the Tribunal that have taken place
  14. within the territory of the Republic of Bosnia and
  15. Herzegovina in which Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and
  16. Mico Stanisic are suspects. These investigations, as I
  17. mentioned earlier, commenced in mid-1994.
  18. Thirdly, the Minister of Justice of the Bosnian
  19. Government has proposed, in a letter dated 12th December
  20. 1994, that the Tribunal take over the investigation of
  21. Radovan Karadzic and Ratko Mladic. Further, in their
  22. written submissions, which were filed with the Registrar
  23. of this Tribunal on Monday, 8th May 1995, the Bosnian
  24. Government has again proposed that its own
  25. investigations be deferred to the Tribunal, stating that

  1. it does not oppose the issue of a formal request for the
  2. deferral of all investigations and criminal proceedings
  3. in respect of Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico
  4. Stanisic.
  5. The fourth reason: it is stated in paragraph 11
  6. of those written submissions of the Government of the
  7. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina that in the absence
  8. of a formal request for deferral that Government intends
  9. to pursue its investigations of Radovan Karadzic, Ratko
  10. Mladic and Mico Stanisic, and will proceed to trial. It
  11. is submitted that, from the Tribunal's point of view,
  12. this would be undesirable and not in the interests of
  13. justice.
  14. In any event, it is submitted, your Honours, that
  15. this Tribunal is the proper forum to try the suspects
  16. nominated in the present application, particularly
  17. having regard to the gravity of the crimes under
  18. investigation by the Prosecutor.
  19. The fifth reason, your Honours, is that the
  20. Prosecutor of this Tribunal, we submit, is in a better
  21. position to approach witnesses living in other countries
  22. and to conduct interviews outside the borders of the
  23. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and this is an
  24. additional reason for a deferral in this case.
  25. Sixthly, it is submitted that a related reason for

  1. granting the present application is that many of the
  2. important witness who are located outside the Republic
  3. of Bosnia and Herzegovina may be reluctant to return or
  4. to travel to Bosnia to testify in a national trial, and
  5. accordingly the Office of the Prosecutor is in a better
  6. position to collect evidence and to complete the
  7. investigations and to present that evidence before the
  8. Tribunal.
  9. Further, it is submitted that the deferral of the
  10. Bosnian Government's investigation in respect of
  11. Karadzic, Mladic and Stanisic is likely to encourage or
  12. enable governments, non-governmental agencies and other
  13. sources to furnish evidence and information to the
  14. Tribunal that has thus far not been provided. Following
  15. the announcement of the two deferral applications, the
  16. attitude of some governments and non-governmental
  17. organisations have become more positive towards the
  18. Tribunal.
  19. Your Honours, there are several significant
  20. implications for the investigations being undertaken by
  21. the Office of the Prosecutor, as well as any subsequent
  22. proceedings before this Tribunal if the Government of
  23. the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina continues
  24. investigations which are similar to those being
  25. conducted by the Office of the Prosecutor. In this

  1. regard, it is submitted that the Prosecutor's
  2. investigations, which have not been completed, could be
  3. severely and significantly prejudiced if the
  4. investigations and prosecutions being undertaken by the
  5. Bosnian Government continue.
  6. Your Honours, it is likely that considerable
  7. confusion may result amongst witnesses and co-operating
  8. organisations or governments concerning the scope and
  9. authority of parallel investigations being undertaken by
  10. the Tribunal and the Bosnian Government. In this
  11. regard, there are different rules and confidentiality
  12. protections which govern the two investigations. Of
  13. greater concern, however, is the undue burden which is
  14. placed on witnesses who are interviewed by different
  15. investigating bodies, on different occasions, and the
  16. resulting possibility of compromising the credibility of
  17. witnesses due to the inadvertent creation of multiple
  18. statements. It is relevant to mention in this regard
  19. that almost all of the statements being taken by the
  20. Office of the Prosecutor require the services of
  21. interpreters, and this is an added circumstance which
  22. could bring about apparent inconsistencies between
  23. statements taken by the Prosecutor' investigators on the
  24. one hand and by the Bosnian investigators on the other.
  25. This burden on witnesses who are interviewed on multiple

  1. occasions is particularly relevant to witnesses who have
  2. suffered trauma and who may be at physical risk as a
  3. result of their co-operation. Witnesses faced with
  4. these burdens could, in fact, refuse to co-operate with
  5. any investigating body at all.
  6. Separate investigations are also likely to lead to
  7. evidentiary problems which may result from different
  8. investigative procedures such as those concerning the
  9. collection and preservation of evidence, the taking of
  10. statements and the questioning of suspects.
  11. A third implication for the Tribunal, your
  12. Honours, is that, if the Government of the Republic of
  13. Bosnia and Herzegovina proceeds to trial before our
  14. investigations are completed, it is likely that there
  15. may be a number of legal issues which could have
  16. implications for those investigations and for any
  17. prosecutions before the Tribunal. These legal
  18. implications were also raised in last week's deferral
  19. application by the Prosecutor, and they include the
  20. principle of non-bis-in-idem, which may arise, pursuant
  21. to Article 10(2) of the Statute of the Tribunal, if
  22. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic stand
  23. trial in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.
  24. The fourth implication, your Honours, is if the
  25. persons nominated as suspects in this application stand

  1. trial in the courts of Bosnia and Herzegovina, there may
  2. be legal implications for the Tribunal, by reason of the
  3. fact that crucial witnesses, who will be required to
  4. testify before the Tribunal, will be exposed to greater
  5. risks if their identities and the evidence they can give
  6. has already been made public in a public national trial.
  7. The fifth implication, your Honours, is that
  8. witnesses may be reluctant, or at least significantly
  9. inconvenienced, if required to testify in a subsequent
  10. trial before this Tribunal after they have already given
  11. evidence before a national court.
  12. Further, there may also be a risk that important
  13. evidence, which is being retained for use in a trial in
  14. a national court in a war zone within the Republic of
  15. Bosnia and Herzegovina, could be damaged or destroyed
  16. before it can be secured for use before this Tribunal.
  17. Finally, international publicity, which would
  18. result from a trial in absentia or otherwise in a
  19. national court, may create a perception of prejudice in
  20. the minds of the accused, or the public, and may have
  21. implications for a fair trial before the Tribunal.
  22. I submit, on behalf of the Prosecutor, that the
  23. present application is in full compliance with the
  24. provisions of the Tribunal's Statute and Rules and that
  25. the national investigations and criminal proceedings in

  1. question involve issues closely related to, or otherwise
  2. involve significant factual or legal questions which may
  3. have implications for investigations or prosecutions
  4. before the Tribunal.
  5. If your Honours are satisfied that a deferral in
  6. relation to this present application is appropriate,
  7. having regard to the matters that have been submitted on
  8. behalf of the Prosecutor, then pursuant to Rule 10 of
  9. the Tribunal's Rules of Procedure and Evidence, we
  10. propose that the Trial Chamber issue a formal request to
  11. the Government of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina
  12. in the following terms, namely:
  13. (A) In respect of serious violations of
  14. international humanitarian law over which this Tribunal
  15. has jurisdiction, as specified in Articles 2, 3, 4 and 5
  16. of the Tribunal Statute, that the courts of the Republic
  17. of Bosnia and Herzegovina defer to the competence of the
  18. Tribunal in regard to their investigations and criminal
  19. proceedings involving Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and
  20. Mico Stanisic; and
  21. (B) In regard to all such investigations of
  22. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic, the
  23. Tribunal requests that the Government of the Republic of
  24. Bosnia and Herzegovina forward to the Tribunal the
  25. results of the said investigations and copies of the

  1. court's records and judgments, if any.
  2. They are my submissions, if it please the Court.
  3. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Thank you very much, Mr Blewitt. I
  4. think I have just only one point to clear, and I think
  5. it is in relation to essential interests in the
  6. application, because you opened your application with a
  7. statement that the significant focus of your
  8. investigation is to go against persons in positions of
  9. authority.
  10. MR BLEWITT: Yes, your Honour.
  11. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Since last August you said that, when
  12. you started. It would appear that, in the exercise of
  13. your right to primacy, this is also of essential
  14. interest, and you have now relied only on our Rules 9(3)
  15. for the proposition which you have made, not necessarily
  16. on 1 and 2, which might not be applicable.
  17. MR BLEWITT: Yes, your Honour.
  18. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Because a lot of your reasons appear to
  19. be legal implications that might arise if the
  20. investigations were carried out in a jurisdiction other
  21. than your own, and, in fact, it would be better for you
  22. to take it over and then conclude the investigation.
  23. This is the essential focus of your practice here.
  24. MR BLEWITT: Indeed, your Honour. That is, in fact, the
  25. only basis upon which this application is based, under

  1. Rule 9(3), your Honour. There is no evidence or
  2. information before the Prosecutor's Office which would
  3. indicate that sub-paragraphs (1) and (2) have any
  4. application at all. In fact, the investigations being
  5. undertaken by the Government of Bosnia and Herzegovina
  6. themselves relate to crimes of genocide and war crimes,
  7. so that I do not think it could be said, your Honour,
  8. that those investigations could be characterised as
  9. crimes of an ordinary nature.
  10. Secondly, your Honour, there is certainly nothing
  11. to indicate that the investigations being undertaken by
  12. the Bosnian Government are in any way impartial, or lack
  13. impartiality, I should say, so that what your Honour
  14. says is correct, that the sole basis of the Prosecutor's
  15. application is under Rule 9(3).
  16. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: I call on the Amicus Curiae to make her
  17. submission.
  18. MADAM VIDOVIC: (original in Bosnian): The Government of the
  19. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina has instituted
  20. national investigations and criminal proceedings against
  21. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic.
  22. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Excuse me, there are some technical
  23. problems.
  24. MADAM VIDOVIC: (original in Bosnian): National
  25. investigations and criminal proceedings have been

  1. instituted against Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and
  2. Mico Stanisic by the Government of the Republic of
  3. Bosnia and Herzegovina in respect of war crimes and
  4. violations of the Criminal Law of the Republic,
  5. including genocide (Article 141), war crimes against the
  6. civilian population (Article 142) and destruction of
  7. cultural and historical monuments (Article 151), alleged
  8. to have taken place in its territory.
  9. The Republic is aware that the Prosecutor of the
  10. International Criminal Tribunal is currently conducting
  11. investigations into crimes within the jurisdiction of
  12. the Tribunal that have taken place within its territory
  13. of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina in which
  14. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic are
  15. suspects.
  16. Further, the Republic is aware that national
  17. investigations and criminal proceedings involve issues
  18. closely related to, or other otherwise involve,
  19. significant factual or legal questions which may have
  20. implications for investigations or prosecutions before
  21. the Tribunal.
  22. The Republic proposes that its investigations of
  23. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic be
  24. deferred to the Tribunal.
  25. The Republic is fully conversant of the

  1. application being brought by the Prosecutor of the
  2. Tribunal for deferral of the Government's investigations
  3. and criminal proceedings in respect of Radovan Karadzic,
  4. Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic.
  5. The Republic believes that the contents of the
  6. said application and attached schedule dated the 21st of
  7. April 1995 are true.
  8. The Republic does not oppose the issue of a formal
  9. request by the Trial Chamber for the deferral of all
  10. investigations and criminal proceedings in respect of
  11. Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic.
  12. The Republic will lend its full support to the
  13. work of the Tribunal and, to the extent that this is
  14. legally possible, comply with requests made by the
  15. Tribunal and its Prosecution authority within their
  16. competence.
  17. If the Tribunal addresses to the Republic a formal
  18. request for "deferral" of the criminal proceedings
  19. presently underway against Radovan Karadzic, Ratko
  20. Mladic and Mico Stanisic in respect of war crimes and
  21. violations of the criminal law of the Republic,
  22. including genocide, war crimes against the civilian
  23. population and destruction of cultural and historical
  24. monuments, which are currently being conducted by the
  25. Government, the competent Republic authorities will make

  1. available to the Tribunal all knowledge which has been
  2. gathered in investigations which have been carried out
  3. as well as any which may be gathered in the future,
  4. together with copies of the court's records and
  5. judgments, if any.
  6. The Ministry of the Interior of the Republic has
  7. issued national warrants of arrest for Radovan Karadzic,
  8. Ratko Mladic and Mico Stanisic for the purposes of the
  9. investigation.
  10. The Republic, in the absence of a formal request
  11. for deferral issued by the Tribunal, intends to pursue
  12. its investigation of Radovan Karadzic, Ratko Mladic and
  13. Mico Stanisic and will proceed to trial. Thank you.
  14. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Thank you very much, Amicus Curiae.
  15. You have submitted that you have already issued warrants
  16. of arrest pursuant to the investigations against the
  17. three principal actors. Does that justify the stage of
  18. investigations you have already reached?
  19. MADAM VIDOVIC: (original in Bosnian): Yes, indeed, your
  20. Honour, and in accordance with our legislation, which is
  21. slightly different from the Rules of this Tribunal, I
  22. can, if need be, present some explanation on this topic,
  23. if you believe that this is necessary. Indeed,
  24. according to our criminal legislation, if, following
  25. judiciary investigation, the Prosecutor in this case --

  1. this would be the Superior Prosecutor of Sarajevo --
  2. believes that there are grounds to believe that a person
  3. has committed a crime, the Superior Prosecutor can then
  4. issue a warrant for arrest if he believes that there is
  5. doubt as to the grounds for believing this person is
  6. suspect, or that there are sufficient grounds they can
  7. issue a warrant for arrest. In this case, it seems that
  8. the suspicion has grounds, is founded, and, therefore,
  9. based on the findings thus far, the suspects which we
  10. could not bring before our own instances, nonetheless
  11. justify the issuance of warrants for arrest that were
  12. then given to Interpol.
  13. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: There appears to be two grades of
  14. applications in Bosnia-Herzegovina. There is one before
  15. the Higher Court, and there is also the one before the
  16. District Military Tribunal. Are both of them directed
  17. towards the same thing or two different things?
  18. MADAM VIDOVIC: (original in Bosnian): No. According to our
  19. legislation, because the crimes were perpetrated in war
  20. time, as concerns certain of these crimes, the
  21. jurisdiction was that of the Military Tribunal. This
  22. means that at that time -- and I emphasise "at that
  23. time" -- the Military Tribunal had jurisdiction, whereas
  24. for other crimes the Superior Tribunal of Sarajevo had
  25. jurisdiction.

  1. As regards the present case, investigations are
  2. not only under way regarding these three suspects, but
  3. also concerning other suspects as well.
  4. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: Very well, thank you. Thank you very
  5. much.
  6. JUDGE JORDA: (original in French): Thank you,
  7. Mr President. I would like to address my questions to
  8. the Prosecutor and to Amicus Curiae. First, to the
  9. Prosecutor, since he must demonstrate, in accordance
  10. with Article 9, the relationship between the
  11. investigations being conducted in the Republic of
  12. Bosnia-Herzegovina and his own investigations -- and
  13. this you have done, for which I thank you -- I wish to
  14. ask you whether the investigations conducted by your
  15. Office are the same as those being conducted by the
  16. judiciary authorities of Bosnia-Herzegovina? May I add
  17. to my question, in your application you talk about three
  18. investigations that are very specific: the protracted
  19. seizure of Sarajevo, offences or attacks on humanitarian
  20. agencies and on elements of UNPROFOR. Are the only
  21. investigations that are common with those of the
  22. Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, these that are
  23. mentioned, or are there other investigations as well as
  24. those that are concurrently being conducted?
  25. MR BLEWITT: If your Honour pleases, the investigations

  1. being undertaken by the Prosecutor's Office in many ways
  2. overlaps that being undertaken by the Government of the
  3. Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. The crimes which
  4. your Honour has just mentioned, namely the siege of
  5. Sarajevo, the attacks on humanitarian aid convoys, and
  6. the United Nations peacekeeping forces, when I was
  7. mentioning those, your Honour, they, in fact, relate to
  8. the investigation into the siege of Sarajevo.
  9. The Prosecutor's investigation, as it relates to
  10. the investigation of the Bosnian Serb leadership, is
  11. certainly not restricted to the investigations of the
  12. siege of Sarajevo, but is related to the entire
  13. criminality that has occurred throughout the Republic.
  14. Your Honour should be aware that indictments have
  15. already been issued in relation to crimes committed by
  16. people in the Prijedor area and the Vlasenica area. The
  17. Prosecutor has also announced publicly that we are
  18. investigating crimes in relation to the events in
  19. Bosanski Samac. They are but a few, your Honour, and,
  20. in fact, the Prosecutor's investigations are extensive.
  21. The investigations being undertaken by the Bosnian
  22. Government are also aimed at persons in positions of
  23. command responsibility. That is the same focus of the
  24. investigations being undertaken by the Prosecutor's
  25. Office, and to that extent, your Honour, both

  1. investigations do overlap, and it is for that primary
  2. reason that we are seeking deferral in this particular
  3. case.
  4. JUDGE JORDA: (original in French): Thank you, Prosecutor.
  5. Does this mean that in the other investigations, even
  6. those for which you have presented indictments, you will
  7. extend those investigations to those persons in
  8. positions of authority?
  9. MR BLEWITT: Yes, your Honour, most definitely.
  10. JUDGE JORDA: (original in French): I would like to ask an
  11. additional question, Prosecutor, before turning to
  12. Amicus Curiae. The requested deferral is based and
  13. grounded on the preservation of evidence and the need to
  14. ensure the security of the witnesses' testimony. Can
  15. you tell us if, in concert, in collaboration with the
  16. Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina, these measures have
  17. already been taken to protect these witnesses, who must
  18. be known in the course of the investigations conducted
  19. by Bosnia and Herzegovina?
  20. MR BLEWITT: Your Honour, to the extent that is possible
  21. and feasible, all steps have, in fact, been taken in
  22. co-operation with the Bosnian Government to protect any
  23. witnesses that are likely to give evidence in any
  24. Prosecution before this Tribunal.
  25. JUDGE JORDA: (original in French): Thank you. With your

  1. permission, Mr President, I would like to ask a question
  2. to Amicus Curiae. Do you agree with the presentation
  3. made by the Prosecutor of what qualifies or
  4. characterizes the authority of the three suspects, or do
  5. you have any other information which you can contribute,
  6. particularly as regards the Bosnian Serb
  7. administration?
  8. MADAM VIDOVIC: (original in Bosnian): I am in full
  9. agreement with the presentation made by the Prosecutor,
  10. your Honour. I might add that all acts perpetrated on
  11. the territory of the Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina was
  12. done according to a plan that was designed and approved
  13. by the three suspects.
  14. JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: This is the end of this session. The
  15. Tribunal will rise now and assemble at 10.00 am tomorrow
  16. to deliver a decision.
  17. (10.50)
  18. (Tribunal adjourned)