1 Wednesday, 8th October 1997

2 (Open Session -- 10.10 am)

3 JUDGE JORDA: Registrar, we are now beginning the hearing.

4 Would you please have the accused brought into the

5 courtroom.

6 (Accused brought in)

7 JUDGE JORDA: Be seated. First I would like to be sure that

8 the interpreters are all ready, once the photographers

9 have completed their work. Gentlemen? Fine. You can

10 withdraw now, please. Does the interpreting booth hear

11 me? Do my colleagues hear me? Prosecutor, and the

12 Defence? Do the accused hear in their own language?

13 We can now start the hearing, which, as I would

14 like to say, is an initial appearance hearing, according

15 to the International Criminal Tribunal's Statute. The

16 Rules of Procedure state that an accused, after having

17 had their indictment confirmed by a judge and after

18 having been arrested and brought to the Tribunal, must

19 go through a proceedings which is called the initial

20 appearance.

21 First, I will ask each of the accused to rise when

22 his name is called and to state for the judges their

23 name, first name, date and place of their birth and the

24 names of their attorneys.

25 First from left to right, Mr Pero Skopljak. Do

1 you hear me? Please rise. Good morning. First give us

2 your name. You have to turn your microphone on. We can

3 hear you now. Please give us your name, your first name

4 as well, where you live, the name of your attorney and

5 your date and place of birth.

6 MR SKOPLJAK: My name is Pero Skopljak, I was born on

7 4th June 1943 in Vitez. My attorney is Mrs Jadranka

8 Slokovic-Glumac.

9 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Now Mr Santic, who according to

10 the drawing that I have here should be the next one.

11 Please sit down now, Mr Skopljak.

12 Give me your name, Mr Santic, your name and the

13 other information as well.

14 MR SANTIC: My name is Ivan Santic, I was born on 30th July

15 1940 in Zenica, my attorney is Mr Ivan Kern.

16 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, please be seated. The next person,

17 who should be Mr Cerkez, would you please rise, turn

18 your microphone on.

19 MR CERKEZ: My name is Mario Cerkez, I was born on

20 27th March 1959, my attorney is Mr Ivan Kern.

21 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. And last, Mr Kordic.

22 MR KORDIC: My name is Dario Kordic, I was born on

23 14th December 1960 in Sarajevo. I am married, my wife

24 is called Renra, I have three children, Vladimir, Maria

25 and Elizabeth. My attorney's name is Mrs Jadranka

1 Slokovic-Glumac.

2 JUDGE JORDA: I now turn -- please be seated first. After

3 having asked the Registrar to call out the reference

4 numbers for this case, this is what number now?

5 THE REGISTRAR: This is case IT-95-14/2-I, the Prosecutor of

6 the Tribunal against Dario Kordic, Mario Cerkez, Ivica

7 Santic, Pero Skopljak, Zlatko Aleksovski and Tihofil

8 Blaskic.

9 JUDGE JORDA: I would like to have the appearances for the

10 Prosecution, please.

11 MR HARMON: Good morning, Mr President, good morning

12 your Honours, good morning counsel. My name is

13 Mark Harmon, I will be appearing for the Prosecution

14 this morning, and I will be assisted by Mr Gregory

15 Kehoe.

16 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. For the Defence, would you

17 introduce yourselves, please, and to recall which of the

18 accused you are defending.

19 Mrs Slokovic-Glumac, would you please spell your

20 name for us; in any case, pronounce it clearly. Go

21 ahead, please.

22 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: Good morning, your Honours. My name is

23 Jadranka Slokovic-Glumac, attorney, and I represent

24 Mr Pero Skopljak and Mr Dario Kordic.

25 MR KERN: My name is Ivan Kern, attorney from Zagreb Croatia

1 and I represent here Mr Mario Cerkez and Mr Ivan Santic.

2 JUDGE JORDA: Mrs Glumac, you did not indicate what bar you

3 work with.

4 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: I am an attorney from Zagreb and a

5 member of the Croatian Bar Association.

6 JUDGE JORDA: Mrs Glumac and Mr Kern, did you indicate your

7 qualifications and credentials to the Registry as far as

8 your membership in the bar is concerned? Will you do

9 that afterwards?

10 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: We will be doing that in the next few

11 days as we did not manage to collect all the necessary

12 papers in time.

13 MR KERN: Yes.

14 JUDGE JORDA: I did not hear Mr Kern's answer.

15 MR KERN: Mine have been handed in.

16 JUDGE JORDA: I suppose Mr Kern -- we still have not heard

17 the French interpretation.

18 MR KERN: We have handed in our authorisations and the other

19 documents will be handed in soon. Our powers of

20 attorney have been handed in.

21 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. First, I would like to recall

22 rapidly which of the Articles of the Statute govern this

23 procedure. I would like to remind you that the Statute

24 in Article 20, which was approved by the Security

25 Council, states that the Trial Chamber shall read the

1 indictment to satisfy itself that the rights of the

2 accused are respected, confirm that the accused

3 understands the indictment, and instruct the accused to

4 enter a plea.

5 In Article 21, there are a series of rights which

6 the accused are entitled to know of in a language which

7 they understand, having to do with the nature and the

8 reasons for the charges brought against them or against

9 individuals.

10 Specifically relating to the initial appearance,

11 that is this hearing, we look at Rule 62 of the Rules of

12 Procedure and Evidence, which were applied from the

13 Statute, which have been voted on by the Security

14 Council, which says that the Trial Chamber shall satisfy

15 itself of the right of the accused to counsel; to read

16 or have the indictment read to the accused in a language

17 he speaks or understands; and satisfy itself that the

18 accused understands the indictment and then call upon

19 the accused to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty on

20 each count.

21 Should the accused fail to do so, enter a plea of

22 not guilty on his behalf, and last, in case of a plea of

23 not guilty, instruct the Registrar to set a date for

24 trial and we will speak about that in a little while.

25 Should there be a guilty plea, to instruct the

1 Registrar to set a date for the pre-sentencing hearing

2 or any other appropriate dates. These are the rules

3 governing this hearing.

4 I would now like to turn to Mrs Glumac and to

5 Mr Kern and to ask whether the accused that they are

6 defending have received a copy of the indictment in a

7 language which they understand, that is yours as well,

8 and whether the accused understood what was in them

9 before we read the indictment.

10 First of all, then, Mrs Glumac, would you please

11 answer this question, you who are defending Mr Skopljak

12 and Mr Kordic?

13 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: Your Honours, copies of the indictment

14 have been handed to the accused and the accused have

15 understood the same.

16 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Kern?

17 MR KERN: Your Honours, the accused have received the

18 indictment in their own language and they have

19 understood the text handed to them.

20 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Please be seated. I will now ask

21 the Registrar to read the entire indictment, including

22 the two names that are the subject of proceedings

23 already in progress. Registrar, would you please recall

24 the date of the indictment and then read it, if you

25 like?

1 THE REGISTRAR: This is the indictment. The Prosecutor of

2 the Tribunal against Dario Kordic, Tihofil also known as

3 Tihomir Blaskic, Mario Cerkez, Ivan also known as Ivica

4 Santic, Pero Skopljak, Zlatko Aleksovski. Indictment.

5 Richard Goldstone, Prosecutor of the International

6 Criminal Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, pursuant to

7 his authority under Article 18 of the Statute of the

8 International Criminal Tribunal for the former

9 Yugoslavia ("the Statute of the Tribunal") charges

10 that:

11 1. Serious violations of international

12 humanitarian law took place during the period of May

13 1992 to May 1993, when the armed forces of the Croatian

14 Defence Council, (hereinafter referred to as HVO) of the

15 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna (hereinafter referred

16 to as HZ-ZB) attacked the Muslim civilian population in

17 the towns, villages and hamlets of the Lasva Valley area

18 of Central Bosnia generally and specifically in the

19 municipalities of Vitez and Busovaca and the civilian

20 population of the nearby city of Zenica, in the

21 territory of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

22 The accused.

23 2. Dario Kordic, was born on 14th December 1960 in

24 Sarajevo, in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

25 From at least 1991 until the present, he has been an

1 active and influential member of a Bosnian Croat

2 political party named the Croatian Democratic Union of

3 Bosnia and Herzegovina (hereinafter referred to as

4 HDZ BiH). From at least 22nd September 1992 until the

5 present, he has been Vice-President and a member of the

6 Presidency of HZ-HB and from on or about 10th July 1994,

7 he has been Chairman of the HDZ BiH.

8 3. Tihofil Blaskic, son of Ivo, was born on 2

9 November 1960 in the village of Brestovsko, municipality

10 of Kiseljak, in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

11 He is a career military officer, who graduated from the

12 Military Academy in Belgrade in 1983 and formerly served

13 as a Captain in the Yugoslav Peoples Army (JNA). At all

14 times material to this indictment, he held the rank of

15 Colonel and was the Commander of the Central Bosnia

16 Operative Zone of the HVO. Since about August 1993, he

17 has held the rank of General and is the Chief of Staff

18 of the HVO with his headquarters in Mostar.

19 4. Mario Cerkez, son of Tugomir, was born on 27

20 March 1959 in the village of Rijeka, municipality of

21 Vitez, in the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. His

22 Official Personal Identification Number is

23 2703959193612. In 1992, during the formation of the HVO

24 forces in Vitez, he became the commander of the HVO

25 Brigade stationed in the municipality of Vitez. He held

1 that position until at least the end of May 1993 and

2 during the HDZBiH/HVO take-over of the municipal

3 functions within Vitez municipality. He is currently

4 residing in Vitez.

5 5. Ivan Santic, son of Stipe, was born in 1942 and

6 is married to Marica. He is a chemical engineer and was

7 formerly the Technical Manager of the Sintevit factory

8 in Vitez. He was Mayor of the municipality of Vitez

9 from at least May 1992 and at all times material to this

10 indictment. He held this position during the HDZBiH/HVO

11 take-over of the municipal functions within the Vitez

12 municipality. He is currently residing in Vitez.

13 6. Pero Skopljak, son of Ante, was born on 4 June

14 1943 in Vitez, in the Republic of Bosnia and

15 Herzegovina. His Official Personal Identification

16 Number is 0406943193610, and he was a graduate of the

17 Faculty of Theology of the Roman Catholic Church. He

18 was formerly the President of the Executive Committee of

19 Vitez HDZBiH Electoral Assembly and Chief of Police, at

20 the Public Security Station, of Vitez municipality in

21 Central Bosnia from at least October 1992 to May 1993.

22 He is now an official in the office of the

23 Vice-President of HZ-HB.

24 7. Zlatko Aleksovski, son of Tale and Eva (nee

25 Stanko), was born on 8 January 1960 in Pakrac, Pakrac

1 municipality, in the Republic of Croatia. He completed

2 studies at the "Veljko Vlahovic" Faculty of Political

3 Sciences political sciences, Department of Sociology, in

4 Sarajevo on 28 September 1983. From 23 February 1987,

5 he was employed as a counsellor at the "Zenica Correction

6 House" until on or about 29 January 1993, when he left

7 to become commander of the prison facility at Kaonik,

8 near Busovaca. After May 1993, he left Kaonik to become

9 the Head of the District HVO "Heliodrom" prison in

10 Mostar, which was also under the administration of the

11 HZ-HB.

12 Superior authority.

13 8. Dario Kordic was elected President of the

14 HDZBiH party in the municipality of Busovaca in 1991.

15 This party was the main Bosnian Croat political party in

16 the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. On 18 November

17 1991, he participated in the formation of the HZ-HB, and

18 was a signatory to the decision establishing HZ-HB in

19 the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. That Bosnian

20 Croat political entity was proclaimed by the HDZBiH to

21 include the municipalities of Travnik, Vitez, Novi

22 Travnik, Busovaca and Kiseljak. By at least 10 May

23 1992, Kordic became the Vice-President of the HVO in

24 HZ-HB. By at least 22 May 1992, he became at least one

25 of two Vice-Presidents of HZ-HB, and remained so at all

1 times material to this indictment.

2 9. Dario Kordic was, by virtue of his position as

3 a Vice-President of HZ-HB, also a member of the

4 Presidency, being the legislative body of HZ-HB.

5 According to Article 7 of the Decision on Founding the

6 Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, dated 3 July 1992,

7 its Presidency consists of the President, two

8 Vice-Presidents and the Secretary.

9 10. Dario Kordic, by virtue of holding various

10 political positions from time to time, culminating in

11 his positions as Vice-President of HZ-HB and the HVO,

12 and by virtue of his political power base in Central

13 Bosnia, exerted power, influence and control over the

14 political and strategic aims and operations of the HVO

15 in the Central Bosnia Operative Zone (one of the four

16 HVO military operative zones within HZ-HB) at all times

17 material to this indictment.

18 11. Dario Kordic demonstrated power, influence,

19 authority and control on numerous occasions and in

20 numerous ways, including, but not limited to,

21 negotiating cease-fire agreements, issuing orders that

22 were directly or indirectly of a military nature,

23 representing himself as a HVO Colonel, dressing in a HVO

24 uniform, having a military operations room in his office

25 in Busovaca, countermanding cease-fire agreements when

1 the terms were not suitable to him, issuing orders for

2 the arrest or release of influential Muslims held

3 prisoner by the HVO and negotiating the passage of

4 relief convoys or United Nations vehicles through

5 checkpoints in Central Bosnia.

6 12. Tihofil Blaskic, since the establishment of

7 the HVO on 8 April 1992, was instrumental in the

8 implementation of the structure and functioning of the

9 HVO in the Central Bosnia Operative Zone. From at least

10 May 1992, he was a Colonel in the HVO and the Commander

11 of the Central Bosnia Operative Zone and remained so at

12 all times material to this indictment. Tihofil

13 Blaskic's authority and duties as a commander are set

14 forth in the Decree on the Armed Forces of the Croatian

15 Community of Herceg-Bosna, dated 17 October 1992. That

16 decree provides, inter alia, that he is responsible for

17 the combat readiness of the troops under his command,

18 the mobilisation of the armed forces and police units

19 and the authority to appoint commanders.

20 13. Tihofil Blaskic has demonstrated or exercised

21 his control in military matters in a variety of ways

22 including, but not limited to, negotiating cease-fire

23 agreements, negotiating with United Nations officials,

24 establishing the organisational structures of the Armed

25 Forces of the HVO, appointing and relieving military

1 commanders, deploying troops, artillery and other units

2 under his command, issuing orders to municipal HVO

3 headquarters, acting as a liaison with senior Croatian

4 Army officials and controlling external military units

5 operating within his area of command.

6 14. Mario Cerkez, from at least August 1992, was

7 the Commander of the HVO Brigade situated in the

8 municipality of Vitez, and remained so at all times

9 material to this indictment. His position within the

10 HVO meant he came under the Command of Tihofil Blaskic,

11 the HVO Central Bosnia Operative Zone Commander at the

12 time. The "Viteska" Brigade headquarters was situated

13 in the Hotel Vitez, the same building as Blaskic's

14 headquarters. Mario Cerkez's authority and duties as a

15 commander are set forth in the Decree on the Armed

16 Forces of the Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna, dated

17 17 October 1992, which provides, inter alia, that he is

18 responsible for the combat readiness of the troops under

19 his command, the mobilisation of the armed forces and

20 police units, and the authority to appoint commanders.

21 15. Mario Cerkez has demonstrated or exercised

22 his control in military matters in a variety of ways

23 including, but not limited to, negotiating cease-fire

24 agreements with opposing civil and military figures from

25 within the Muslim community, negotiating with

1 United Nations officials, appointing military

2 commanders, issuing orders to deploy troops and other

3 units under his command and controlling the detention

4 and treatment of detained civilians during times of

5 military conflict.

6 16. Ivan Santic was the Mayor of the municipality

7 of Vitez from at least May 1992 until May 1993. He

8 represented the Bosnian Croat population of Vitez within

9 the HDZBiH. Democratic by virtue of his political and

10 official position, he exerted considerable power,

11 influence, authority and control over the political and

12 strategic military aims of the HVO in the municipality

13 of Vitez.

14 17. Ivan Santic has demonstrated or exercised his

15 control over civil and military matters within the Vitez

16 municipality in a variety of ways, including, but not

17 limited to, negotiating cease-fire agreements with

18 opposing civil and military figures from within the

19 Muslim community, negotiating with United Nations

20 officials, controlling the municipal and governmental

21 functions within Vitez municipality and controlling the

22 detention and treatment of detained civilians during

23 times of military conflict.

24 18. Pero Skopljak was a President of the

25 Executive Committee of the Croatian Democratic Union of

1 Bosnia-Herzegovina for the municipality of Vitez from at

2 least October 1992 to May 1993 he was the Chief of

3 Police in the municipality of Vitez. By virtue of his

4 political and official position, he exerted power,

5 influence, authority and control over the political and

6 strategic military aims of the HVO in the municipality

7 of Vitez.

8 19. Pero Skopljak has demonstrated or exercised

9 his control over civil, police and military matters

10 within the municipality of Vitez in a variety of ways

11 including, but not limited to, negotiating cease-fire

12 agreements with opposing civil and military figures from

13 within the Muslim community, negotiating with

14 United Nations officials, controlling the municipal and

15 governmental functions and controlling the detention and

16 treatment of detained civilians during times of military

17 conflict.

18 20. Zlatko Aleksovski was an official at the

19 Zenica prison from 23 February 1987 until leaving to be

20 the commander of the detention facility at Kaonik, near

21 Busovaca, on or about 29 January 1993. He was in charge

22 of Kaonik Prison and was in a position of superiority to

23 everyone else in the camp. As commander he met the

24 International Committee of the Red Cross (hereinafter

25 referred to as the ICRC) and European Community

1 Monitoring Mission (hereinafter referred to as ECMM)

2 officials and provided them with lists of detained

3 persons and acknowledged his position of commander of

4 the facility and his understanding of the Geneva

5 Conventions in relation to the detention and treatment

6 of prisoners in his charge.

7 21 Zlatko Aleksovski has demonstrated or exercised

8 his control over the detention facility in Kaonik prison

9 in a variety of ways including, but not limited to,

10 formal meetings with ICRC and ECMM officials, accepting

11 the custody of arrested persons by HVO units, allowing

12 the unlawful interrogation of detained persons and

13 allowing them to be used for unlawful forced

14 labour (digging trenches) and human shields.

15 22. General allegations:

16 22.1. At all times relevant to this indictment, a

17 state of international armed conflict and partial

18 occupation existed in the Republic of Bosnia and

19 Herzegovina, in the territory of the former Yugoslavia.

20 22.2. All acts or omissions herein set forth as

21 grave breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949

22 (hereafter "grave breaches"), recognised by Article 2

23 of the Statute of the Tribunal, occurred during that

24 international armed conflict and partial occupation.

25 22.3. In each paragraph charging crimes against

1 humanity, a crime recognised by Article 5 of the Statute

2 of the Tribunal, the alleged acts or omissions were part

3 of a widespread, large-scale or systematic attack

4 directed against the civilian population, specifically

5 the Bosnian Muslim population of the Lasva Valley region

6 of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

7 22.4. All of the victims referred to in the

8 charges contained in this indictment were, at all

9 relevant times, persons protected by the Geneva

10 Conventions of 1949.

11 22.5. All of the accused in this indictment were

12 required to abide by the mandate of the laws and customs

13 governing the conduct of war, including the Geneva

14 Conventions of 1949.

15 22.6. The general allegations contained in

16 paragraphs 8 through 22.5 are re-alleged and

17 incorporated into each of the related charges set out

18 below.

19 Charges:

20 23. Between 01 May 1992 and 31 May 1993, Bosnian

21 Muslims were persecuted on political, racial and

22 religious grounds throughout the Lasva Valley area.

23 Dario Kordic and Tihofil Blaskic, during those times,

24 and throughout the Lasva Valley area, did, by their acts

25 and omissions, and in concert with others, commit a

1 crime against humanity by persecuting Bosnian Muslims on

2 political, racial and religious grounds. They are

3 criminally responsible for the murder and wounding of

4 Muslim civilians or detainees, the attacking and

5 bombarding of undefended towns, villages and dwellings,

6 deliberate attacks on the civilian population, the

7 unlawful destruction of businesses, homes, personal

8 property and livestock, the unlawful treatment of

9 detainees, the targeting of political leaders and

10 professionals by murdering them or detaining them in

11 detention facilities for extended periods of time, the

12 plundering of homes and personal property, the

13 transferring or forcing of civilians to move out of the

14 Lasva Valley to predominantly Muslim populated regions

15 and the commission of other inhumane acts. Persecution

16 was carried out by one or more of the aforementioned

17 means, some of which are more particularised below.

18 24. In January and April 1993, HVO forces or

19 their agents, under the direction and control of Dario

20 Kordic and Tihomir Blaskic, planned and executed a

21 systematic campaign of bombarding, attacking and

22 destroying towns, villages and hamlets in the Lasva

23 Valley area, or parts thereof, whose inhabitants were

24 predominantly Bosnian Muslims. These communities, and

25 their Bosnian Muslim inhabitants, were selected and

1 targeted on political, racial and religious grounds.

2 The attacks on these communities were conducted by HVO

3 forces, which in the Vitez municipality included members

4 of the Viteska Brigade, under the direction and control

5 of Mario Cerkez. The Bosnian Muslim communities that

6 were attacked in the Lasva Valley area had few or no

7 Bosnia and Herzegovina Army troops (hereinafter referred

8 to as BiH) troops present or near the community. Many

9 of the attacks commenced early in the morning when most

10 of the inhabitants were in their homes and asleep. At

11 least one hundred defenceless Bosnian Muslim civilians,

12 including women, children, the elderly and the infirm,

13 were killed and many wounded or harmed in their homes,

14 in their yards, while attempting to escape from the HVO

15 attacks or bombardments or after they had been detained

16 by the HVO.

17 25. In late April 1993, when the ABiH forces were

18 involved in a counter-offensive against the HVO in or

19 near the Lasva Valley area, HVO forces or their agents,

20 under the direction and control of Dario Kordic and

21 Tihofil Blaskic, bombarded civilians gathering in the

22 central shopping area of Zenica, resulting in the deaths

23 of at least 17 civilians and the wounding of many

24 others.

25 26. Between 1 January and at least 31 May 1993,

1 in the municipalities of Busovaca and Vitez, hundreds of

2 Bosnian Muslim civilians that had not escaped from or

3 been killed in HVO attacks, were systematically selected

4 and rounded up on political, racial or religious grounds

5 by HVO forces or their agents, under the direction and

6 control of Dario Kordic and Tihofil Blaskic. These

7 Bosnian Muslims civilians, including the many wounded in

8 the attacks, were taken and detained by HVO forces or

9 their agents, some of which included members of the

10 Viteska Brigade, which was under the direction and

11 control of Mario Cerkez. These civilians were interned,

12 along with captured Muslim combatants, in detention

13 facilities located at diverse locations in the Lasva

14 Valley area. These facilities include, but are not

15 limited to, the Vitez Cinema Complex, the Kaonik Prison

16 near Busovaca, the Vitez Veterinary Station, the

17 Dubravica Elementary School, and several Muslim homes in

18 Gacice.

19 27. These detention facilities were staffed,

20 operated or controlled by the HVO or their agents, under

21 the direction and control of Dario Kordic and Tihofil

22 Blaskic.

23 28. The hundreds of Bosnian Muslim civilians

24 described in paragraph 26, were detained in these

25 facilities for various lengths of time on the basis of

1 political, racial and religious grounds until they were

2 either killed, transferred or forced to move to Muslim

3 dominated areas outside the Lasva Valley area generally,

4 and specifically outside the municipalities of Vitez,

5 Novi Travnik and Busovaca.

6 29. While detained, many of the Muslim civilians

7 and captured Muslim combatants were subjected by the HVO

8 or their agents, under the direction and control of

9 Dario Kordic and Tihofil Blaskic, to inhumane treatment,

10 including being kept in cramped or overcrowded

11 facilities, being provided with inadequate food or

12 water, being provided with inadequate or no medical

13 treatment for the infirm or wounded, being subjected to

14 physical or psychological abuse and intimidation, being

15 repeatedly forced to dig trenches for the HVO at

16 numerous and diverse locations at or near lines of

17 confrontation between the HVO and the ABiH, thereby

18 subjected such detainees to mental and physical harm,

19 being subjected to use as human shields at diverse

20 locations in the Lasva Valley area in order to protect

21 HVO military installations or troops from forces hostile

22 to the HVO and some being shot or beaten to death by the

23 HVO.

24 30. On 19 April 1993, Mario Cerkez, having

25 previously controlled the arrest and detention of

1 hundreds of Muslim civilians through his command of HVO

2 units in Vitez, stated that the HVO would kill the 2,200

3 Muslim civilians detained in Vitez unless pressure was

4 put on the ABiH and civilian authorities to stop the

5 ABiH counter-offensive in the Vitez area. This threat

6 was reaffirmed on 20 April 1993 by Pero Skopljak and

7 Ivan Santic and they were thus able, through threats,

8 intimidation and coercion, to force the signing of a

9 document beneficial to the interest of the HVO and

10 potentially detrimental to the interests of the ABiH.

11 Thereafter, Mario Cerkez, Pero Skopljak and Ivan Santic,

12 allowed the continued detention of the Muslim civilian

13 detainees who were under their care and control, the

14 inhumane treatment of the detainees, the use of detained

15 persons for forced labour (digging trenches) and the use

16 of detained persons as human shields. During such time

17 of detention some of them were murdered or otherwise

18 killed.

19 31. From January 1993 until at least the end of

20 May 1993, Zlatko Aleksovski accepted hundreds of

21 detained Bosnian Muslim civilians from the HVO or their

22 agents into his custody at the detention facilities in

23 Kaonik. The detainees were from a widespread area

24 including, but not exclusive to, Vitez and Busovaca

25 municipalities. Many of the detainees under his control

1 were subjected to inhumane treatment including, but not

2 limited to, excessive and cruel interrogation, physical

3 and psychological harm, forced labour (digging

4 trenches), in hazardous circumstances, being used as

5 human shields and some were murdered or otherwise

6 killed.

7 32. Persecution, throughout the Lasva Valley

8 area, involved the systematic and wanton destruction of

9 Bosnian Muslim homes, personal property, livestock and

10 businesses by the HVO armed forces, police, and their

11 agents, or third parties with their acquiescence, under

12 the direction or control of Dario Kordic and Tihofil

13 Blaskic. Between October 1992 and the end of May 1993,

14 Bosnian Muslim property was singled out on the basis of

15 political, racial and religious grounds and

16 systematically destroyed, either before the hostilities

17 commenced or during or after the HVO attacks on the

18 Muslim civilian population in the Lasva Valley area.

19 The effect of this unlawful, excessive and wanton

20 destruction of hundreds of Bosnian Muslim homes,

21 personal property and livestock, not justified by

22 military necessity, was to ensure that the inhabitants

23 who had not been killed, could not or would not return

24 to their homes and communities in the Lasva Valley

25 area. The towns, villages and hamlets, or Muslim

1 portions thereof, where extensive destruction occurred,

2 include, but are not limited to: Town/village: Ahmici,

3 approximate period of destruction April 1993. Busovaca,

4 January 1993 to May 1993. Gacice, April 1993. Kacuni,

5 April 1993. Loncari, April 1993. Nadioci, April 1993.

6 Ocenici, April 1993. Pirici, April 1993. Putis, April

7 1993. Santici, April 1993. Sivrino Selo, April 1993.

8 Stari Vitez, April 1993. Veceriska/Donja Veceriska,

9 April 1993. Vitez, December 1992 to May 1993.

10 33. Beginning in January 1993 and through to May

11 1993, HVO forces or their agents, under the direction or

12 control of Dario Kordic and Tihofil Blaskic, on the

13 basis of political, racial and religious grounds,

14 unlawfully bombarded the central shopping area of Zenica

15 and systematically attacked hundreds of undefended

16 dwellings or buildings in numerous towns, villages and

17 hamlets in diverse locations in the Lasva Valley area

18 that were owned, and many of which were occupied, by

19 Bosnian Muslim civilians, and were of no military

20 significance at the time of the attack or bombardment,

21 in order to kill, terrorise, or demoralise the Bosnian

22 Muslim population. These incidents resulted in hundreds

23 of Bosnian Muslim casualties in numerous locations

24 including, but not limited to: Ahmici, commencement date

25 16 April 1993, 5.30 am. Busovaca, January 1993 and

1 26 April 1993. Gacice, 20 April 1993, 5.50 am. Kacuni,

2 January 1993. Loncari 17 April 199. Nadioci, 16 April

3 1993, 5.30 am. Ocenici, 19 April 1993. Pirici,

4 16 April 1993, 6.00 am. Putis, 16 April 1993. Santici,

5 16 April 1993, 5.30 am. Sivrino Selo, 16 April 1993.

6 Stari Vitez 16 April 1993, 5.45 am. Veceriska/Donja

7 Veceriska, 16 April 1993, 5.30 am, Vitez, 16 April 1993,

8 5.15 am, Zenica, 19 April 1993.

9 34. All events described in paragraphs 22 to 33

10 were directed against Bosnian Muslim civilians on

11 political, racial and religious grounds. Individually

12 and collectively, these actions were on such a large

13 scale and widespread basis, and implemented in such a

14 systematic fashion, that they have effectively destroyed

15 or removed almost the entire Muslim civilian population

16 from those areas of the Lasva Valley where the HVO and

17 Bosnian Croat administration has taken control.

18 Counts 1 to 3. Crimes against humanity.

19 35. Dario Kordic and Tihofil Blaskic, between

20 1 May 1992 and 31 May 1993, individually, and in concert

21 with others, planned, instigated, ordered or otherwise

22 aided and abetted in the planning, preparation or

23 execution of the following crimes:

24 (a) persecutions of Bosnian Muslims in the Lasva

25 Valley area of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina,

1 on political, racial and religious grounds,

2 (b) bombardments and attacks which caused the

3 deaths of over one hundred Bosnian civilians in the

4 Lasva Valley area and the city of Zenica, in the

5 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina,.

6 (c) inhumane acts against Bosnian civilians in the

7 Lasva Valley area, and civilians in the central shopping

8 district of the city of Zenica, in the Republic of

9 Bosnia and Herzegovina,

10 and, or in the alternative, knew, or had reason to

11 know, that subordinates were about to do the same, or

12 had done so, and failed to take the necessary and

13 reasonable measures to prevent such acts or to punish

14 the perpetrators thereof.

15 By these acts and omissions Dario Kordic and

16 Tihofil Blaskic:

17 Count 1: a crime against humanity as recognised by

18 Articles 5(h) (persecution on political, racial and

19 religious grounds), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

20 Tribunal (as described in paragraphs 24-25 which are

21 incorporated in full herein);

22 Count 2: a crime against humanity as recognised by

23 Articles 5(a) (murder), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

24 the Tribunal (as described in paragraphs 24-25 which are

25 incorporated in full herein);

1 Count 3: a crime against humanity, as recognised

2 by Articles 5(i) (inhumane acts), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

3 Statute of the Tribunal (as described in paragraphs 23,

4 28-34, and all references to the wounding or harming of

5 many Bosnian civilians as set out in paragraphs 24-25,

6 all of which are incorporated in full herein).

7 Counts 4-7. Grave breaches and violation of the

8 laws or customs of war. Wilful and killing and wounding

9 of Bosnian Muslim civilians.

10 36. Dario Kordic, Tihofil Blaskic and Mario

11 Cerkez, between 1 January and 31 May 1993, and as

12 described in paragraphs 24-25 of this indictment, both

13 of which are incorporated in full herein, individually,

14 and in concert with others, planned, instigated, ordered

15 or otherwise aided and abetted in the planning,

16 preparation, or execution of the murder of over one

17 hundred civilians and the wounding of many others in the

18 Lasva Valley area and in the city of Zenica, in the

19 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and, or in the

20 alternative, knew, or had reason to know, that

21 subordinates were about to do the same, or had done so,

22 and failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures

23 to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators

24 thereof.

25 By these acts or omissions, Dario Kordic, Tihofil

1 Blaskic and Mario Cerkez, committed:

2 Count 4: a grave breach as recognised by Articles

3 2(a) (wilful killing), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

4 the Tribunal;

5 Count 5: a grave breach as recognised by Articles

6 2(c) (wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury

7 to body or health), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

8 Tribunal;

9 Count 6: a violation of the laws or customs of war

10 as recognised by Articles 3 (deliberate attack on the

11 civilian population and individual civilians), 7(1) and

12 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal;

13 Count 7: a violation of the laws or customs of war

14 recognised by Article 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

15 the Tribunal and Article 3(1)(a) (murder) of the Geneva

16 Conventions of 1949.

17 Counts 8-10, grave breaches and violation of the

18 laws or customs of war. Unlawful treatment of Bosnian

19 Muslim detainees.

20 37. Dario Kordic, Tihofil Blaskic, Mario Cerkez,

21 Ivan Santic, Pero Skopljak and Zlatko Aleksovski,

22 between 1 January and 31 May 1993, and as otherwise

23 described in paragraphs 23 and 26-31 of this indictment,

24 all of which are incorporated in full herein,

25 individually, and in concert with others, planned,

1 instigated, ordered or otherwise aided and abetted in

2 the planning, preparation or execution of the unlawful

3 treatment of Bosnian Muslim detainees in the Lasva

4 Valley area of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina

5 and, or in the alternative, knew, or had reason to know,

6 that subordinates were about to do the same, or had done

7 so, and failed to take the necessary and reasonable

8 measures to prevent such acts or to punish the

9 perpetrators thereof.

10 By these acts and omissions, Dario Kordic, Tihofil

11 Blaskic, Mario Cerkez, Ivan Santic, Pero Skopljak and

12 Zlatko Aleksovski committed:

13 Count 8: a grave breach as recognised by Articles

14 2(b) (inhumane treatment), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute

15 of the Tribunal;

16 Count 9: a grave breach as recognised by Articles

17 2(c) (wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury

18 to body or health), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

19 Tribunal;

20 Count 10: a violation of the laws or customs of

21 war (outrages upon the personal dignity) as recognised

22 by Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

23 Tribunal.

24 Counts 11-13, grave breach and violations of the

25 laws or customs of war. Attacks, bombardments and

1 destruction of civilian property.

2 38. Dario Kordic, Tihofil Blaskic and Mario

3 Cerkez, between 1 January and 31 May 1993 and otherwise

4 as described in paragraphs 23-25 and 32-33 of this

5 indictment, all of which are incorporated in full

6 herein, individually, and in concert with others,

7 planned, instigated, ordered or otherwise aided and

8 abetted in the planning, preparation or execution of the

9 unlawful attacking, bombarding, and destruction of

10 Bosnian Muslim dwellings, businesses, buildings,

11 personal property and livestock in the Lasva Valley area

12 of the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and, or in

13 the alternative, knew, or had reason to know, that

14 subordinates were about to do the same, or had done so,

15 and failed to take the necessary and reasonable measures

16 to prevent such acts or to punish the perpetrators

17 thereof.

18 By these acts and omissions Dario Kordic, Tihofil

19 Blaskic and Mario Cerkez committed:

20 Count 11: a grave breach as recognised by Articles

21 2(d) (extensive destruction of property), 7(1) and 7(3)

22 of the Statute of the Tribunal;

23 Count 12: a violation of the laws or customs of

24 war (wanton destruction of dwellings or other

25 installations that are used only by the civilian

1 population, including places of religious worship) as

2 recognised by Articles 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute

3 of the Tribunal;

4 Count 13: a violation of the laws or customs of

5 war (attacks on dwellings or other installations that

6 are used only by the civilian population, including

7 places of religious worship) as recognised by Articles

8 3, 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

9 Signed Richard Goldstone, Prosecutor, November

10 1995, The Hague, The Netherlands.

11 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. I would now like to turn to the

12 Defence attorneys and to their accused. Please note

13 that this indictment was read in its entirety and, as

14 you have noted, has two other names in it, Tihofil

15 Blaskic and Zlatko Aleksovski. The reason for this is,

16 as you know, Tihofil Blaskic and Mr Zlatko Aleksovski

17 are being tried in separate procedures. Tihofil

18 Blaskic's trial began about three or four months ago and

19 Zlatko Aleksovski's will begin shortly. This is the

20 reason for that. I first wanted to tell you this and to

21 note it, because the judges want very much that the

22 indictment be read exactly as it was drafted in November

23 1995, against the four accused.

24 I ask the Defence attorneys whether they have

25 understood exactly what I have just said, and I suppose

1 your clients have also understood that; is that right?

2 Now, I would like to turn to each of the accused

3 and ask him whether he pleads guilty or not guilty to

4 each of the counts in the entire indictment which has

5 just been read. I will first ask Mr Dario Kordic to

6 rise.

7 Mr Kordic, you, of course, heard the indictment

8 read in the language which is your own, and you have

9 understood all the facts; would you answer yes or no?

10 If you have anything you are not sure about, something

11 which you did not understand, let me know, please.

12 MR KORDIC: Your Honours, ladies and gentlemen, I have fully

13 understood the indictment and you said that I heard it

14 in my language, that is not quite correct, because it

15 was not in Croatian, I heard it more in Serbian, so that

16 is the comment I have to make.

17 JUDGE JORDA: This comment, which was not the first time we

18 have heard it, and which has already been settled here,

19 will be noted in the transcript for this hearing.

20 Mr Kordic, I am going to recall each of the counts

21 which involves you, there are 13 which affect you.

22 I will simply give the name and ask you to answer

23 clearly whether or not you plead guilty.

24 Count 1, crime against humanity, persecution for

25 political, racial and religious reasons, Article 5(h) of

1 the Tribunal Statute. Guilty or not guilty?

2 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

3 JUDGE JORDA: Count 2, a crime against humanity, murder,

4 Article 5(a) of the Statute.

5 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

6 JUDGE JORDA: Count 3, a crime against humanity, inhumane

7 acts, Article 5(i) of the Statute.

8 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

9 JUDGE JORDA: Count 4, grave breach, wilful killing, Article

10 2(a) of the Statute.

11 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

12 JUDGE JORDA: Count 5, grave breach, wilfully causing great

13 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

14 2(c) of the Statute.

15 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

16 JUDGE JORDA: Count 6, violations of the laws and customs of

17 war, deliberate attack on the civilian population and

18 individual civilians, Article 3 of the Statute.

19 MR KORDIC: Also not guilty.

20 JUDGE JORDA: Count 7, violation of the laws or customs of

21 war, murder, Article 3 of the Statute.

22 MR KORDIC: Not guilty.

23 JUDGE JORDA: I would prefer that you state whether you

24 plead guilty or not. The interpretation said you do not

25 "feel" guilty. In my language there is somewhat of a

1 difference there. I would like you to say "I plead

2 guilty" or "not guilty", if you do not mind. Count 8,

3 grave breach, inhumane treatment, Article 2(b) of the

4 Statute.

5 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty. I plead not guilty.

6 JUDGE JORDA: Count 9, grave breach, wilfully causing great

7 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

8 2(c) of the Statute.

9 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty.

10 JUDGE JORDA: Count 10, violations of the laws or customs of

11 war, outrages upon personal dignity, Article 3 of the

12 Statute.

13 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty.

14 JUDGE JORDA: Count 11, grave breach, extensive destruction

15 of property, Article 2(d) of the Statute.

16 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty.

17 JUDGE JORDA: Count 12, violation of the laws or customs of

18 war, wanton destruction of dwellings or other

19 installations used only by the civilian population,

20 including places of religious worship, Article 3 of the

21 Statute.

22 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty.

23 JUDGE JORDA: Count 13, violations of the laws or customs of

24 war, attacks on dwellings or other installations used

25 only by the civilian population, including places of

1 religious worship, Article 3 of the Statute.

2 MR KORDIC: I plead not guilty.

3 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, you may be seated.

4 MR KORDIC: Therefore I plead not guilty on all counts.

5 JUDGE JORDA: Then this is the statement which has been

6 recorded. Did you understand, in the language which you

7 received, which you seemed to be challenging, at least

8 the linguistic connotation of it? At least did you

9 understand the indictment, Mr Kordic?

10 MR KORDIC: I have understood it completely, but I said that

11 I would have preferred to have heard it in the Croatian

12 language.

13 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. We will now Mr Mario Cerkez to

14 rise.

15 Please answer to each of the counts that were

16 brought against you in the indictment which has just

17 been read to you. Answer whether you plead guilty or

18 not guilty.

19 Count 4, wilful killing, Article 2(a) of the

20 Statute.

21 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

22 JUDGE JORDA: Count 5, grave breach, wilfully causing great

23 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

24 2(c) of the Statute.

25 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

1 JUDGE JORDA: Count 6, violation of the laws or customs of

2 war, deliberate attack on the civilian population and

3 individual civilians, Article 3 of the Statute of the

4 Tribunal.

5 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

6 JUDGE JORDA: Count 7, violation of the laws or customs of

7 war, murder, Article 3 of the Statute.

8 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

9 JUDGE JORDA: Count 8, grave breach, inhumane treatment,

10 Article 2(b) of the Statute.

11 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

12 JUDGE JORDA: Count 9, grave breach, wilfully causing great

13 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

14 2(c) of the Statute.

15 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

16 JUDGE JORDA: Count 10, violation of the laws or customs of

17 war, outrages upon the personal dignity, Article 3 of

18 the Statute.

19 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

20 JUDGE JORDA: Count 11, grave breach, extensive destruction

21 of property, Article 2(d) of the Statute.

22 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

23 JUDGE JORDA: Count 12, violation of the laws or customs of

24 war, in this case wanton destruction of dwellings or

25 other installations used only by the civilian

1 population, including places of religious worship,

2 Article 3 of the Statute.

3 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

4 JUDGE JORDA: Count 13, violations of the laws or customs of

5 war, attacks on dwellings or other installations used

6 only by the civilian population, including places of

7 religious worship, Article 3 of the Statute.

8 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty.

9 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. Therefore you are pleading not

10 guilty to all of the counts which were brought against

11 you.

12 MR CERKEZ: I plead not guilty on all counts of the

13 indictment.

14 JUDGE JORDA: I have noted that. Have you also understood

15 the indictment, Mr Cerkez? Did you understand it?

16 MR CERKEZ: Yes, I completely understood the indictment, and

17 I plead not guilty on all counts of the indictment.

18 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, Mr Cerkez. It will be noted as

19 that and you may be seated. I would like to call

20 Mr Ivan Santic.

21 You are cited in this indictment. First I would

22 like to ask you whether you understood the indictment.

23 MR SANTIC: Yes, I understood them as they were written.

24 JUDGE JORDA: This is how it will be noted in the

25 transcript. You understood what was written.

1 Mr Santic, you are covered by three counts on this

2 indictment.

3 Count 8, grave breach, inhumane treatment,

4 Article 2(b) of the Statute; do you plead guilty or not

5 guilty?

6 MR SANTIC: Not guilty.

7 JUDGE JORDA: Count 9, grave breach, wilfully causing great

8 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

9 2(c) of the Statute.

10 MR SANTIC: Not guilty.

11 JUDGE JORDA: Count 10, violation of the wars or customs of

12 war, outrage upon personal dignity, Article 3 of the

13 Statute.

14 MR SANTIC: Not guilty.

15 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, Mr Santic, you may be seated. It

16 will be noted in that way in the transcript of this

17 hearing that on the three counts which concern you, that

18 is 8, 9 and 10, you plead not guilty.

19 Mr Pero Skopljak, would you rise, please? First

20 I ask you whether you heard and understood the

21 indictment as it was read in its entirety.

22 MR SKOPLJAK: Yes, I have.

23 JUDGE JORDA: You are covered by three counts in this

24 indictment, Mr Skopljak, 8, 9 and 10.

25 As for Count 8, grave breach, inhumane treatment,

1 Article 2(b) of the Statute; do you plead guilty or not

2 guilty?

3 MR SKOPLJAK: I plead absolutely not guilty.

4 JUDGE JORDA: Count 9, grave breach, wilfully causing great

5 suffering or serious injury to body or health, Article

6 2(c) of the Statute; do you plead guilty or not guilty?

7 MR SKOPLJAK: I plead absolutely not guilty.

8 JUDGE JORDA: Count 10, violation of the laws or customs of

9 war, outrages upon personal dignity, Article 3 of the

10 Statute.

11 MR SKOPLJAK: I plead absolutely not guilty.

12 JUDGE JORDA: You may be seated, Mr Skopljak.

13 Turning to the Registrar, would you please note

14 all of the pleas, all of which were pleas of not

15 guilty.

16 I will now go into the last part of this hearing,

17 which is the organisation of the Trial Chamber's work

18 and the possible setting of a date for the trial.

19 First, I will turn to the Prosecutor and remind

20 him of his obligation which, according to Rule 66, is

21 his, that he must give a copy of all -- make available

22 to the Defence as soon as possible after the initial

23 appearance copies of the supporting material which

24 accompanied the indictment when confirmation was sought,

25 as well as all prior statements obtained by the Office

1 of the Prosecutor.

2 You must understand now, Mr Prosecutor, that the

3 Tribunal has been in existence for several years now,

4 and in light of the case law which the Tribunal has been

5 able to render in a number of cases which arose out of

6 various preliminary comments and motions of the

7 different accused -- Mr Prosecutor, have you any points

8 you would like to comment on here?

9 MR HARMON: Mr President, we understand our obligations, we

10 are in the process of preparing those materials for

11 counsel and I hope to engage counsel in discussions in

12 respect of some of those materials shortly. Thank you.

13 JUDGE JORDA: I suppose that you could not give the Defence

14 a timeframe for when you will communicate this to them?

15 MR HARMON: Mr President, I think we can communicate those

16 materials to the Defence within two weeks.

17 JUDGE JORDA: Mrs Glumac and Mr Kern, did you hear that?

18 Within two weeks you will be entitled to have all of the

19 documents that were attached to the indictment and the

20 confirmation request which was presented by my colleague

21 for the indictment which you have just heard, as well as

22 the statements which were gathered. You understood

23 things in that manner, is that correct?

24 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: Yes, your Honour and we hope this

25 applies to the implementation of Rule 66A, and that we

1 will receive all the supporting material and statements

2 required under that rule.

3 MR KERN: I have also understood it, I think that the

4 deadline is a reasonable one and we hope it will be

5 observed.

6 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Kern, the Tribunal is here to be sure that

7 these timeframes are respected. I would like to remind

8 all parties, to Defence and to the Prosecution, that you

9 have 60 days from today, 8th October 1997, the day of

10 the initial hearing, to file any preliminary motions

11 which are permitted under Rules 72 and 73 of the Rules

12 of Procedure and Evidence. The Prosecutor is familiar

13 with these provisions, perhaps the Defence attorneys are

14 less so. I therefore ask you to look at the text

15 involved which refer to 60 days, but which can be

16 extended by the Trial Chamber if it so decides, but only

17 in an intraparty hearing.

18 Before we leave, we must set up a date for

19 a Status Conference in order to look at the status of

20 the work and to settle any problems before we set a date

21 for the trial. I must also point out to you that there

22 are a certain number of things and questions which

23 I feel responsible about and must tell you.

24 For the time being, we have only one courtroom.

25 This is a problem the Tribunal is confronted with and

1 which must be settled during 1998. I do not know

2 whether there will be any questions happening with any

3 questions of possible separation of trials, only you can

4 make those requests, or not make any. I would tell you

5 that the composition of the Trial Chamber may change.

6 You know that the Tribunal is finishing its first

7 mandate given to it by the Security Council on

8 17th November. After that date, the composition of the

9 trial will change for six of us judges. Therefore,

10 there may be a modification in the Trial Chamber's

11 composition. I simply wanted to point this out to you.

12 If there are any other questions? Mrs Glumac,

13 Mr Kern, have you any comments that you would like to

14 make about this hearing?

15 MS SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: Your Honours, for the present, I have

16 no further comments to make and until we receive the

17 supporting material, we cannot make any further

18 submissions.

19 JUDGE JORDA: Mr Kern?

20 MR KERN: Yes, we have understood our rights and we will

21 avail ourselves of those rights when we receive all the

22 supporting material attached to the indictment.

23 JUDGE JORDA: Turning to the Prosecutor, have you any

24 comments that you would like to make as to the conduct

25 of the work? I say this for the Defence as well.

1 Access to the Trial Chamber is easy, Mr Fourmy is the

2 legal officer in this Trial Chamber, through whom you

3 can communicate anything you would like, in order to

4 speak to the judges, or to communicate with them. Mr

5 Harmon, do you have any additional comments you would

6 like to make?

7 MR HARMON: I do not, your Honour, thank you.

8 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you. I now turn to my colleagues.

9 Mr Karibi-Whyte, have you any comments you would like to

10 make?

11 JUDGE KARIBI-WHYTE: No comments.

12 JUDGE JORDA: Judge Shahabuddeen, have you any comments you

13 would like to make?

14 JUDGE SHAHABUDDEEN: No comments at this stage.

15 JUDGE JORDA: Turning to the Registrar, are we in a position

16 now to set a trial date? As things stand now, I believe

17 this would be difficult, but I would like to have your

18 opinion in order to comply with all the provisions of

19 the text which apply to our work.

20 THE REGISTRAR: It would be difficult to give you a trial

21 date now, to suggest a trial date to you now.

22 JUDGE JORDA: Thank you, Registrar. If there are no other

23 comments, the hearing is adjourned and will resume for a

24 Status Conference.

25 (11.15 am -- Hearing adjourned)