Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 13143

1 Thursday, 19 May 2005

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 3.38 p.m.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Good afternoon to everyone.

6 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case

8 number IT-00-39-T, the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Krajisnik.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.

10 Mr. Hannis, is the Prosecution ready to call its next witness,

11 which as I understand, is a protected witness, closed session, and

12 pseudonym?

13 MR. HANNIS: That's correct, Your Honour. And Ms. Richterova

14 will be leading that witness.

15 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Welcome, Ms. Richterova.

16 We'll then turn into closed session.

17 [Closed session]

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 13144











11 Pages 13144-13171 redacted. Closed session.















Page 13172

1 (redacted)

2 [Open session]

3 JUDGE ORIE: First of all, Madam Registrar, the exhibits, all

4 under seal, are numbers --

5 THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit numbers P723 to P726, all

6 under seal.

7 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.

8 I did understand, Mr. Stewart, that you'd prefer to cross-

9 examine the next witness, who is a 92 bis witness called for cross-

10 examination. You'd prefer to start that tomorrow?

11 MR. STEWART: Well, certainly, Your Honour, because I'm not

12 complaining about this, but we -- we had understood very clearly until very

13 early this afternoon that this witness was scheduled for tomorrow and not

14 today.


16 MR. STEWART: So yes, thank you. I did notify that in response

17 to the invitation earlier on.

18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. As the parties know, tomorrow we're sitting

19 in the morning hours.

20 We have a few matters still to deal with. First of all, I do

21 understand, Mr. Hannis, that the Brcko dossier, that it will be presented

22 to the Chamber.

23 MR. HANNIS: That's correct, Your Honour.

24 JUDGE ORIE: There seemed to have been some misunderstandings,

25 but they're now all taken away, as to whether it was presented to the

Page 13173

1 Chamber.

2 MR. HANNIS: Yes, Your Honour. We have that available for you

3 this afternoon.

4 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Could that be then provided.

5 The Chamber has receive a copy of, I think it was, an eleven-

6 point comment mainly consisting of suggestions by the Defence on these type

7 of dossiers.

8 MR. STEWART: Yes, Your Honour. And we await with excitement

9 and interest to see how many of our suggestions have been adopted.

10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Well, of course, I'll have a look at that.

11 Since we had not yet received the Brcko dossier, of course, some of the

12 terms like "chronology" were not entirely clear to us. But opening it on

13 the first page already it seems that the chronology is a list of events.

14 We'll have a look at it.

15 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

16 MR. STEWART: Your Honour, could I just -- while I remember.


18 MR. STEWART: In relation to the last witness about - obviously

19 I'm going to say nothing which would be inappropriate in open session - may

20 I just observe that the -- that in the later statement, the numbering has

21 gone awry and it doesn't match the numbering in the earlier statement.

22 It's -- well, Ms. Richterova is shaking her head, but I can assure her that

23 the numbering has got out of kilter in the -- in the later statement. It

24 refers to -- Mr. Hannis is nodding his head, so it seems that that is now -

25 -

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13 English transcripts.













Page 13175

1 JUDGE ORIE: You have to meet with Ms. Richterova anyhow. So if

2 you resolve this matter then together as well.

3 MR. STEWART: Yes. I was just trying to soften them up, Your

4 Honours, to see that there might be something in sorting this out.

5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. So that the Chamber then expects that to be

6 settled as well.

7 Then I think we're still waiting for the timing of the response

8 by the Defence of giving its comments on the Zvornik dossier; is that

9 correct?

10 MR. STEWART: Well, just to be frank, Your Honour, once again

11 I'm totally unaware that we had actually been asked for comments in

12 relation to the Zvornik dossier at all. So if there is some request

13 lurking around that I'm not aware of and perhaps my team is not aware of,

14 well, we better track it down straight away. But it comes as a surprise to

15 me. That's -- I don't know whether Mr. Hannis is equally puzzled or now

16 telling me through the Trial Chamber that I've got it wrong.

17 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]

18 JUDGE ORIE: No, perhaps the word "dossier" is not clear. Let

19 me just tell you on the basis of what I made this observation.

20 On the 9th of May, the Office of the Prosecution has indicated

21 that it's ready to tender contextual exhibits, I should say, linked to

22 individual 92 bis witnesses for Zvornik. And I do understand that the

23 Defence received these exhibits on the 8th of May, and on the 9th of May

24 the Defence has responded that it does not foresee when it will be able to

25 provide its response in relation to these exhibits.

Page 13176

1 You'll find that on transcript page --

2 MR. STEWART: Well, Your Honours, it's becoming clear to me now.

3 It was the reference to dossier which threw me because I assumed it was the

4 next one along from Brcko. Of course I do remember that, and it's a pile

5 of paper marked "Zvornik" at the moment.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. So we'd like to know when you will be in a

7 position to respond to these exhibits. Perhaps I should have avoided to

8 use the word "dossier."

9 MR. STEWART: Well, so would I, Your Honour, and when I do, Your

10 Honour, with respect -- well, it's noted and now I am reminded what that

11 particular issue is. Then, of course, we'll keep the Trial Chamber

12 informed as best we can.

13 JUDGE ORIE: If you would give an answer by tomorrow, that would

14 be -- so that we know at least for our scheduling reasons when we could

15 expect any decision.

16 MR. STEWART: Yes, Your Honour.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Then finally, we have got one decision at

18 this moment ready to -- but -- no, I'd rather do that tomorrow so that we

19 can distribute the text of the decision prior to reading it, unless, Mr.

20 Stewart -- unless, Mr. Stewart -- yes.

21 MR. STEWART: Sorry, Your Honour.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, I waited for you to put your headphones on

23 again.

24 MR. STEWART: Sorry.

25 JUDGE ORIE: Unless, Mr. Stewart, you think you will need the

Page 13177

1 whole of tomorrow for your cross-examination of Witness 012.

2 MR. STEWART: No, I can't see that. I'm sorry, Your Honour. Of

3 course, Your Honour, I could in fact hear Your Honour, of course. But that

4 was what was preventing me from putting my headphones back on. No, Your

5 Honour, I certainly won't need the whole of the session tomorrow.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Then we'll deliver that decision tomorrow.

7 We'll adjourn -- no, we first ask Madam Registrar to assign a

8 number to the Brcko dossier.

9 THE REGISTRAR: The Brcko dossier will be Prosecution Exhibit

10 P727.

11 JUDGE ORIE: The number is assigned. A decision, of course, has

12 not yet been taken because the Chamber would like to have a look at it

13 first before making any decision. The Chamber is aware of suggestions made

14 by the Defence which do not amount to objections, as far as I --

15 MR. STEWART: Oh, no, Your Honour. They were in the usual

16 spirit of constructive helpfulness.


18 MR. STEWART: And, Your Honour, I notice that we haven't been

19 given the dossiers. I don't know if that is because they are in exactly

20 the form which they were when we gave our comment, which then it makes

21 sense.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. You would appreciate it if it would have been

23 presented with some of the additional suggestions.

24 MR. STEWART: Well, the message about what's happened to the

25 suggestions, which I think is pretty clear.

Page 13178

1 MR. HANNIS: They are the same as Mr. Stewart received before.


3 MR. HANNIS: But not because we don't see some merit in the

4 suggestions. We actually do. But we weren't able to incorporate any of

5 those into this dossier at that time.

6 MR. STEWART: Yes, I do in fact --

7 JUDGE ORIE: May I take it to the extent possible you would

8 follow the suggestions put by Mr. Stewart for the dossier still to come.

9 MR. HANNIS: I can't tell you that we will follow them 100 per

10 cent, but we find a lot of area of agreement.

11 MR. STEWART: I understand we've got a dialogue, and I

12 understand why the Brcko dossier is conveniently provided in its original

13 form. We understand that, Your Honour.

14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, more or less a pilot.

15 Then we'll adjourn until tomorrow morning, 9.00, in this same

16 courtroom.

17 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.55 p.m.,

18 to be reconvened on Friday, the 20th day of

19 May, 2005, at 9.00 a.m.