1 Tuesday, 5 July 2005
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.14 a.m.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Good morning to everyone.
6 Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number
8 IT-00-39-T, the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Krajisnik.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Madam Registrar.
10 Ms. Edgerton, you'd like to address me in relation to -- address
11 the Chamber in relation to the contextual exhibits, I take it?
12 MS. EDGERTON: Yes, Your Honour. Your indulgence just to deal
13 with that unfinished business from yesterday, please.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Madam Registrar has provisionally assigned
15 numbers. I do understand that she has communicated them to you. So if
16 you would please, for the record, then name the contextual exhibits.
17 MS. EDGERTON: Now, dealing first with the new documents --
18 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
19 MS. EDGERTON: -- proposed new documents, the provisional exhibit
20 numbers are P865 for a document dated 28 May 1992 from Svetozar Andric to
21 the Zvornik Territorial Defence Staff; P865A, for a document dated 30 May
22 1992 for an order by the East Bosnian Corps command sent to the Zvornik TO
23 headquarters on 30 May 1992; P865B, dated 15 July 1992, for a telegram
24 from the Zvornik TO HQ to the Corps Ugljevik indicating prisoners from
25 Zvornik are arriving; P865C, dated 21 July 1992, which is a Drinatrans
1 invoice to the temporary government of the Serbian Municipality of Zvornik
2 for services rendered, including on 15 July the transportation of
3 prisoners; P865D, dated 9 August 1992, official notes from an interview
4 with Vuckovic Dusko, aka Repic; and finally for the new documents, P865E,
5 which is a copy of a hand-signed statement of Vuckovic Vojan, aka Zuco.
6 So that deals, Your Honours, with the proposed new documents. If
7 I can turn, then, to the contextual documents already in evidence. The
8 first one has the number P822, tab 50, and that's a list entitled "Payment
9 for unemployed reserve soldiers who participated in the military exercise,
10 the duration of the exercise being from 1 to 17 May 1992." While the list
11 has an illegible signature at the bottom, a typewritten block there
12 says "Payment approved by the TO staff commander." I would direct the
13 Trial Chamber to numbers 41 and 44 on this list, where the names Vojan
14 Vuckovic, aka Zuco, and Dusko Vuckovic appear.
15 The second document already in evidence bears the number P822,
16 tab 39. This is a payroll record for which -- which bears the
17 heading "Zuco's group" on the first page and "Zuco's men" on the second
18 and relates to dates between June 1 and 30, 1992. The name Vojan Vuckovic
19 appears as number 1 on this list.
20 P822, tab 42 is a payroll of TO members of the Serbian
21 Municipality of Zvornik for the month of May 1992, signed by Major Marko
22 Pavlovic as commander of the military territorial command, and the
23 document bears the stamp of the Serbian Municipality of Zvornik Municipal
24 Defence Staff.
25 P822 -- your indulgence for a moment. Pardon me. P529, tab 32
1 is the statement of one Svetoslav Mitrovic, aka Niski. And in that regard
2 I would direct the parties to paragraphs 2 and 3, the first paragraph
3 mentioning a Commander Marko Pavlovic as -- at the Zvornik Territorial
4 Defence Staff.
5 And your indulgence while I check off my list, please.
6 The next number I have is --
7 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton.
8 MS. EDGERTON: Thank you.
9 JUDGE ORIE: I'm also looking at the list you've sent to -- from
10 what I understand, to the Defence with a copy to members of the Chamber's
11 legal officers. There P664 is the one that appears after P822, tab 42.
12 Does that mean that you have stricken them -- have stricken this P664
13 or ...
14 MS. EDGERTON: No, Your Honour. That was my confusion as well.
15 But document which Madam Registrar has is in a different order from mine.
16 JUDGE ORIE: Okay.
17 MS. EDGERTON: So I chose to go by her -- the order of her
19 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. So that will come later. Please proceed.
20 MS. EDGERTON: Yes. Now I have P664 and 664.1. That's a
21 decision on the reorganisation and creation of the organs of the
22 provisional government of the Serbian Municipality of Zvornik made at a
23 meeting held on 20 May 1992. I would direct the parties to paragraph 4 of
24 that document, which sets out the members of the wartime staff of the
25 provisional government of the Serbian Municipality of Zvornik, and the
1 first two members listed are Branko Grujic and Marko Pavlovic.
2 P778 and 778.1 are the next documents. That's a report signed by
3 Bijeljina CSB, head Dragan Andan, dated 20 July 1992 on the security
4 situation in Zvornik municipality. It's directed to the Ministry of the
5 Interior. The report details some activities of three paramilitary units
6 in Zvornik municipality, one being Zuco's unit. And in addition to Zuco
7 himself, the report states that Zuco's brother was also prominent in the
9 The final one, P780 -- or bears the number P780 part, and for the
10 sake of clarity I should provide the ERN number. That's 03247392 to
11 03247394, because I don't know how many parts P780 has. The
12 English-language translation bears the same ERN number with the
13 prefix "ET." And that's a report dated 4 August 1992 on MUP activities
14 exposing the activity of paramilitary formations in the area of the Serb
15 Municipality of Zvornik. And this report talks in detail about
16 perpetrators who are mentioned in the statement of the witness who
17 testified yesterday, Zuco and Repic, the brother of Zuco. And the last
18 paragraph of this report states that information obtained by the Serb
19 armed forces, military police, and national security operatives indicates
20 that Repic was committing massacre genocide over citizens of the Serb
21 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina of Muslim ethnicity.
22 And if I can just have your indulgence to review the two lists, I
23 think I've covered all the documents which previously had exhibit numbers.
24 Madam Registrar, I think I have. Do your records correspond with
25 mine? I think I've spoken to everything.
1 JUDGE ORIE: Madam Registrar is nodding yes, from what I see.
2 Yes, she confirms that by nodding again.
3 Ms. Edgerton, that completes your tendering --
4 MS. EDGERTON: Thank you for your indulgence, Your Honours, and
5 I'll take my leave now.
6 JUDGE ORIE: As usual, anything objections within seven days if
7 there are any.
8 MR. STEWART: Yes, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you.
10 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
11 JUDGE ORIE: Ms. Edgerton, I think - but I should check the
12 transcript whether we only assigned exhibit numbers yesterday - that's
13 P860, under seal, and then 861, under seal, and then 862 up to 864, not --
14 not under seal, whether we admitted them already formally. I don't think
15 that we took a decision on it.
16 MS. EDGERTON: That's correct, we didn't, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE ORIE: No numbers were assigned.
18 Mr. Stewart, yesterday we did not hear -- there are two
19 statements and there are -- the other three were photographs. I didn't
20 hear any objection yesterday, but if Ms. Loukas would have any objections,
21 she'll be in a position to express that within the next two days. Yes.
22 Then they now are admitted into evidence with -- that's 860,
23 86 -- no -- yes, 860, 861, both under seal. Yes. And there's also 859
24 preceding these two. They do not appear on your list but -- they're all
25 admitted into evidence, and D45 is the -- is an interview with that
2 For 859, Mr. Stewart, it might be good for the Chamber to know
3 whether the footnote on the first page of that document, which says
4 something about the interviewer more or less interpreting the statement in
5 terms of names used by the witness and gives its own explanation on who he
6 refers to in their view, whether that's part of the evidence. And perhaps
7 you could have a look at it as well, Ms. Edgerton, to see how you
8 understand that.
10 MS. EDGERTON: I will, Your Honour. Thank you.
11 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you. Then, Ms. Edgerton, you're excused.
12 Mr. Tieger, has the -- the last batch of dossiers -- this week's
13 batch of dossiers, have we received them already? It usually comes a bit
14 slower to the -- to the Judges itself, but has it been provided already?
15 MR. TIEGER: No, Your Honour, it hasn't been completed. I spoke
16 with the registrar yesterday and we'll submit those physically today.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Okay. Then that's clear as well.
18 Yes. Then for you, Mr. Krajisnik, a specific request --
19 question: You've referred during cross-examination of Mr. Davidovic to a
20 number of documents. The bundle we received on Monday contains documents
21 to be tendered in relation to the witnesses Bjelobrk, Prstojevic,
22 Witness 680 and Witness Tupajic but no documents for Davidovic. Is it a
23 correct understanding of the Chamber that you do not wish to tender any
24 document in relation to witness Davidovic?
25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honours, with regard to these
1 documents for Mr. Davidovic, you discouraged me from introducing the
2 documents referred to, but if you so suggest, I could prepare them in a
3 few days' time.
4 JUDGE ORIE: I'm not suggesting anything at all. I just wanted
5 to know whether it's a correct understanding that -- that it was not by
6 mistake that they were missing. And I do understand that it's no mistake.
7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I only had one document for
8 Mr. Davidovic but I didn't tender it. So as far as I am concerned, I
9 won't be tendering this one document for Mr. Davidovic now.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Krajisnik.
11 MR. STEWART: Your Honour, may I make a practical suggestion?
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
13 MR. STEWART: It might help and keep things clear if exhibits
14 which were tendered by Mr. Krajisnik were given a different number -- for
15 example, MK, 1 MK, 2 MK, 3 and so on, in order to establish them clearly
16 from the exhibits which his Defence team have chosen to put in.
17 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. We'll consider your suggestion, Mr. Stewart.
18 I do understand the advantage. On the other hand, "Defence" is defined as
19 accused and counsel and to that extent forms in procedural terms a unity
20 also. So we'll consider whether we'll follow your suggestion. I'll not
21 express myself on it at this very moment.
22 Then, Mr. Krajisnik, I do understand that you wanted to -- to
23 tender a couple of pages from the book of David Owen "Balkan Odyssey,"
24 specifically in relation to money spent on media in relation to Witness
25 Thompson. This book does exist in English, so therefore there might be no
1 need to have it translated here. If the parties would agree that we'll
2 take the relevant portions of the -- of the English version of the book.
3 The parties, of course, have an opportunity to check whether the
4 translation is correct.
5 MR. STEWART: Your Honour, it's not the same. It's -- that's
6 just one warning I should give.
7 JUDGE ORIE: Okay.
8 MR. STEWART: It's -- the one is not a translation of the other.
9 JUDGE ORIE: I understand.
10 MR. STEWART: There are -- of course, they follow relatively
11 closely. But from what we've seen in the past, it isn't simply a
12 translation. The text of the English version --
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
14 MR. STEWART: -- is slightly -- Your Honour, the other way around;
15 is slightly different.
16 JUDGE ORIE: The most important portion Mr. Krajisnik wanted to
17 draw the Chamber to was, I think, a quote. I do know whether the quotes
18 are also different. But could the parties --
19 I take it, Mr. Stewart, that you have the English version
20 available. Could you please -- or ask ...
21 MR. STEWART: Yes, we do, Your Honour. I'm sorry. I should make
22 it clear. It may be that any particular passage -- it could very well be
23 that they match.
24 JUDGE ORIE: The parties --
25 MR. STEWART: But the book overall is not simply -- it's not
1 simply the same text in two different languages.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. The parties are invited to look whether in
3 respect of the specific pages Mr. Krajisnik has drawn our attention to and
4 perhaps even more specific the -- the quoted part, whether for this
5 exhibit the English version would be such that it could be admitted. If
6 not, we'd like to know that.
7 And then, Mr. Krajisnik, finally you'll have to tender it
8 formally and that is not to send it to the Chamber but to submit so that
9 Madam Registrar could assign it a -- an exhibit number and have it in that
10 way introduced into evidence.
11 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't understand. I can't
12 translate that part of the book. I have that book in English. If the
13 registry could provide me with a copy, I'd be grateful. You know what
14 sort of conditions I'm working under. I provided a copy of the book in
15 the Serbian language - that's David Owen's book - and I don't think there
16 should be any difference in the text. It wouldn't be right for the
17 original and the Serbian translation to differ in any respect.
18 JUDGE ORIE: Whether right or wrong, our attention has been drawn
19 to the fact that there are differences, and this Chamber is not to judge
20 upon the work of the translators for private publishing companies.
21 MR. STEWART: Yes. Your Honour, should I say -- I'm working from
22 memory here. I just remember in relation to --
23 JUDGE ORIE: Let's not --
24 MR. STEWART: Well, can I just make it clear, Your Honour,
1 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
2 MR. STEWART: I'm working from memory. From many months ago in
3 relation to some passages, I have a distinct memory that there were
4 significant differences in the text. That's all I'm going from, Your
5 Honour. It's a long time since I looked at that particular issue, but
6 that's what I do remember. How significant they are, I don't know. How
7 widespread throughout the book, I don't know. But that is my recollection
8 that they do not exactly match. And as Your Honour correctly observes
9 right or wrong, that's what it is.
10 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Mr. Stewart, I just wanted to say that
11 approximately one minute ago that nothing changes on the basis of what
12 Mr. Krajisnik told us. The Chamber still invites the parties to see
13 whether the English version could serve, yes or no. And that has remained
15 Once we have heard the observations of the parties in this
16 respect, Mr. Krajisnik, we'll know whether he has to tender another
17 translation, which of course one way or the other will take care that the
18 translation will be there and that he tenders the B/C/S original with a
19 translation of the Tribunal or with the English version of the book. Yes.
20 Then, if there's nothing else for the next -- are you ready to
21 call your next witness, Mr. Margetts? Is it you who's going to deal with
22 Witness 666?
23 MR. MARGETTS: Yes, Your Honour. Yes, the Prosecution is ready
24 to call the witness. Protective measures were ordered for this witness;
25 however, we've received information that the witness would like to address
1 the Court in relation to security issues.
2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. We'll do that in private session right at the
4 MR. MARGETTS: Yes.
5 JUDGE ORIE: And therefore we will turn into private session.
6 [Private session]
11 Page 15813-15844 redacted. Private session.
17 [Open session]
18 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber would like to give a few decisions, the
19 reasons to follow in a written decision given the reasons for those.
20 MR. STEWART: Your Honour, I'm sorry, we were told just a moment
21 ago we were in open session. But I see the witness is sitting here. I'm
22 just unclear as to -- to --
23 JUDGE ORIE: We are in open session with all the protective
24 measures as they apply at this moment.
25 MR. STEWART: Oh, right. That was what confused me, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE ORIE: That is, face distortion.
2 MR. STEWART: Yes.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Voice distortion, and pseudonym.
4 MR. STEWART: Yes, that's clear to me, Your Honours. Thank you.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
6 MR. STEWART: I just wanted to be sure we are --
7 JUDGE ORIE: But since you draw -- since you draw my attention to
8 the protective measures, Mr. Stewart, the first decision of the Court is
9 that this witness will testify in closed session, the testimony to start
10 tomorrow morning, 9.00.
11 At -- and now I'll turn into private session.
12 [Private session]
11 Pages 15847-15850 redacted. Private session.
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.25 p.m.,
7 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 6th day of
8 July, 2005, at 9.00 a.m.