1 Tuesday, 27 August 2002
2 [Open session]
3 [Status Conference]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning. This is Case Number IT-98-33-A, the
8 Prosecutor versus Radislav Krstic.
9 JUDGE HUNT: Appearances for the Prosecution, please.
10 MR. STAKER: May it please Your Honour, my name is
11 Christopher Staker. I appear on behalf of the Prosecution with our case
12 manager Mr. Wolfgang Sakulin.
13 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much. For General Krstic.
14 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
15 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, my name is
16 Nenad Petrusic. I'm appearing for General Krstic.
17 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you.
18 And General Krstic, are you able to hear the proceedings in a
19 language which you understand? There's no need to stand up.
20 The accused: Yes, I can. Thank you very much.
21 JUDGE HUNT: First of all, I would like to apologise to the
22 Prosecution, but I decided we should proceed with it because the rules
23 require it. If there's anything that the Prosecution want to add, those
24 who are handling the matter, please get in touch with my legal officer and
25 we will organise something for you.
1 This is a Status Conference called in accordance with the
2 provisions of the rules. Is there anything that you do wish to raise,
3 Mr. Staker?
4 MR. STAKER: No, Your Honour, there's nothing the Prosecution
5 would wish to raise.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Petrusic?
7 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, the Defence has
8 nothing to raise. If you consider it necessary, we can inform the Court
9 what point we have reached under Rule 68 and 66, that is, discovery,
10 according to Mr. Farrell's communication. We expect this process to be
11 completed by the middle of this month when we shall probably have a
12 meeting and discuss this problem in detail. And I hope solve it.
13 JUDGE HUNT: When you say the middle of this month, do you mean
14 the middle of September? We're already well past the middle of this
15 month. So that means that you are hopefully approaching some form of
16 agreement about the further discovery that you sought?
17 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Yes, sir, thank you for your
18 correction, Your Honour. I did mean September.
19 JUDGE HUNT: Assuming for the moment that you do reach that
20 agreement, you'll then have to apply your mind to any application you want
21 to make for additional evidence to be considered. And that's a matter
22 which is becoming of some importance if we are able to dispose of this
23 appeal speedily, or at least more speedily than it has been so far.
24 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I fully agree with you. And
25 in my estimation, unlike the previous quantity of material received by the
1 Defence in February and March, this time, the material will not be so
2 voluminous, and the Defence will need less time to carry out its
3 inspection and search of the material and proceed within the time limit of
4 60 days to inform the Chamber of our further work on this case.
5 JUDGE HUNT: I'm not sure that the 60 days is the same 60 days
6 that I have in my mind. I recall that it was thought it would take 60
7 days some time last year in order to file a status report. You don't have
8 60 more days in which to gather together your application to admit
9 additional evidence. Hopefully, you'll be -- you should be getting on to
10 that with material you've already got, and of course any further material
11 that comes in, you can add to it. But we will expect you to make your
12 application, if any application is to be made, to admit additional
13 evidence very much more speedily than 60 days after you've completed the
15 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] I am starting from the assumption
16 that an agreement will be reached between the Prosecution and the
17 Defence. Of course, I agree with you that the material that has already
18 been discovered, that this material has already been looked at by the
19 Defence, and I agree that the time limit should be shorter in this case.
20 JUDGE HUNT: The time limit has recently been amended to I think
21 it's 75 days after the date of final judgement. That doesn't apply in
22 these proceedings, of course. But nevertheless you can see that the
23 Tribunal is very concerned about the time that it takes to consider these
24 applications. It's a very difficult process, and when you do make your
25 application, I hope you will give us assistance by identifying the
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 particular ground of appeal or finding of fact or law by the Trial Chamber
2 to which each piece of evidence applies. It's not easy for people who are
3 not involved in the trial to be able to consider applications for new
4 evidence. The Prosecution, of course, has the right to reply, and they
5 may have some difficulty with that material supplied under Rule 68. But
6 nevertheless, they may have very valid objections to some of the other
7 material, so we want to get on with this as soon as we can. That's why I
8 am trying to encourage you to start compiling material even now, seeing
9 that you have had most of it since the beginning of this year. So if you
10 would keep that in mind.
11 I don't want to make any orders at this stage. But at some stage
12 when we have your next status report as to the progress of the discovery,
13 we will have to at that stage impose time limits so that we can get on
14 with the case.
15 Is there anything else you want to raise?
16 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] There is nothing I wish to raise,
17 Your Honour. I would only like to say that I assure you that in relation
18 to the material already received, the Defence is already working on its
19 submission under Rule 115 so that we will be in an advanced phase in
20 preparing our submission when we receive the new material, and this will
21 be included in the report that we shall submit to you.
22 JUDGE HUNT: I'm very grateful to hear that, Mr. Petrusic. I'm
23 glad that you're getting on with it. These appeals are starting to string
24 out, not through any fault of the parties. I can understand the problems
25 that you face. But these further discovery problems and the further
1 revelation by some government authorities are starting to bog the
2 Appeals Chamber down in no uncertain terms. But thank you very much for
3 your assurance.
4 Mr. Staker, I know you can't deal with this, but there was some
5 discussion with Mr. Farrell at an earlier Status Conference about what
6 attitude the Appeals Chamber should take to this very troublesome problem
7 of Rule 68. And I just want to remind the Prosecution that that is a
8 matter which the Appeals Chamber may very well still wish to pursue even
9 if the -- there is an agreement finally as to the further disclosure.
10 There was a document signed by the -- by some of the counsel who took part
11 in the trial identifying the basis upon which they took the view that
12 certain material was not discoverable under Rule 68. Some of the
13 assertions made in that document were very hotly disputed by the Defence.
14 And Mr. Farrell very wisely suggested, and everybody agreed, that those
15 disputed issues should not be dealt with until the whole of the discovery
16 had been completed because there may be other issues. But Mr. Farrell, I
17 think, very properly agreed that the interpretation of Rule 68 and some of
18 the practical problems involved in it is a matter which is ripe for some
19 sort of consideration in the course of this appeal so that I want to
20 remind the Prosecution that that is an issue that still has to be dealt
21 with. I think it would be most properly dealt with in the course of the
22 appeal itself.
23 Right, is there anything more to say with respect to what
24 Mr. Petrusic said?
25 MR. STAKER: No, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much for coming along, Mr. Staker. I
2 understand the problems you had. I apologise once again for the breakdown
3 in the communication chain, but it did happen at my end, not yours. Thank
4 you for coming. And I'll now adjourn.
5 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned
6 at 9.11 a.m.