1 Wednesday, 30 July 2003
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.30 p.m.
6 JUDGE MERON: Please be seated.
7 Madam Registrar, please call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Mr. President. Case Number
9 IT-98-33-A, The Prosecutor versus Radislav Krstic.
10 JUDGE MERON: Thank you.
11 This is a Status Conference called pursuant to Rule 65 bis. Judge
12 hunt who served as the Pre-appeal Judge in this case has been replaced on
13 the Bench for this case, so I will be presiding today. Let me first ask
14 for appearances. For the Prosecution.
15 MR. FARRELL: Good afternoon, Your Honour. For the Prosecution
16 is Norman Farrell, Mr. Mathias Marcussen, and Ms. Nicola Bonfield. Thank
18 JUDGE MERON: Thank you. For the Defence.
19 MR. PETRUSIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour. My
20 name is Nenad Petrusic joined here today by Mr. Norman Sepenuk.
21 JUDGE MERON: Thank you very much. General Krstic, please do not
22 feel you have to stand when I address you. Please remain seated if you
24 Are you able to follow the proceedings in a language that you
1 THE APPELLANT: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.
2 JUDGE MERON: Thank you.
3 Let me note the parties should be aware by now that the Appeals
4 Chamber yesterday granted the Defence request for an extension of time
5 until the 7th of August to file supplementary Rule 115 materials based on
6 the interviews mentioned in the request. I can also report that I am
7 hopeful that the Appeals Chamber will render a decision on the Defence's
8 pending Rule 115 motions quite soon.
9 Let me also say at the very outset that while I'm grateful to the
10 parties for their professional conduct, I do hope that both sides will
11 redouble their efforts to move this appeal forward. The Prosecution, of
12 course, must diligently fulfill its disclosure obligations, and the
13 Defence must have adequate time to scrutinise whatever it receives from
14 the Prosecution. But I hope that both sides will carry out their
15 responsibilities with a sense of urgency.
16 Mr. Farrell, thank you very much for the status report filed on
17 Monday. I would like to ask you a few questions about it if I may, and
18 then I will let you supplement whatever you would want. Now, the first
19 two groups of documents mentioned in your annex concern, as you remember,
20 interviews with three individuals. Are those interviews now completed;
21 and if not, when do you expect them to be completed? In other words, when
22 should disclosures resulting from these interviews be done with?
23 MR. FARRELL: First of all, I understand that there is continuing,
24 ongoing investigations in relation to a few of the individuals listed in
25 the disclosure as a result, as you know, there are other trials that are
1 ongoing. At this point in time, there is no -- there are no other
2 interviews that have taken place, though I understand that there may be
3 efforts to continue in relation to one or two of the individuals. At this
4 point in time, there is no further material to be disclosed in relation to
5 those individuals, but I will certainly inform the Defence counsel, and if
6 the Court so wishes, if and when those matters arise. And of course as
7 soon as they're completed, they will be disclosed.
8 JUDGE MERON: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Farrell. Now I'm turning
9 to the third item in your annex. I'm wondering why did it take two months
10 from the testimony in question until the disclosure of the material to the
12 MR. FARRELL: I'm take responsibility for that. Mr. -- I think it
13 was at the end of May, in fact, the Defence wrote to us asking about that
14 issue. It got overlooked for a period of time in light of other
15 obligations. That's our responsibility. That's not the responsibility of
16 the Defence. They wrote, and we had conversations about that. And then
17 they were subsequently reviewed. That was -- well, there was a number of
18 other things that we were doing at the time, and we wanted to review the
19 transcript because of the sensitivity of it, but the length of time is
20 primarily the responsibility of my Office and I'll certainly take note of
21 that in the future.
22 JUDGE MERON: Thank you, Mr. Farrell.
23 MR. FARRELL: Thank you.
24 JUDGE MERON: I turn now to the fourth set of material in your
25 annex. I see you have already disclosed a number of documents. Do you
1 know when you will be completed with your review of this entire set of
2 documents, and thus when will you be finished with the disclosures to the
3 Defence from this particular group of documents?
4 MR. FARRELL: I think I can inform you, Your Honour, and I'll
5 allow of course my learned colleagues to speak. We had an opportunity to
6 meet, counsel for General Krstic and counsel for the Prosecution yesterday
7 afternoon to go through some of these issues. We have informed the
8 counsel for General Krstic that we would attempt to by the end of day
9 provide a CD of the remaining materials, that is, the fourth one, the MUP
10 and related intelligence documents that have been seized. Mr. Marcussen
11 and I reviewed it this morning. We haven't been able to separate out all
12 the relevant from the irrelevant material, but we've undertaken to the
13 Defence that we will provide it within the next day or two and we will
14 provide it on CD. I hoped to provide it today, but we're not able to.
15 But I will provide it to them so they can actually search it
16 electronically. I get in the next day or two, we will get it to them.
17 JUDGE MERON: The electronic search did not seem to present any
18 problems for the Defence.
19 MR. FARRELL: Not as yet. If it is, I will allow them to inform
20 us, then.
21 JUDGE MERON: I will now turn to paragraph 6 of your status
22 report. You mentioned one document that you anticipated disclosing to the
23 Defence by the time of the Status Conference. Have you done so?
24 MR. FARRELL: Yes, Mr. President. It was done yesterday.
25 JUDGE MERON: Thank you very much. Finally, in the last paragraph
1 of your status report, you referred to ongoing investigations that may
2 lead to further disclosure to the Defence. Are there any investigations
3 or episodes of testimony in other cases you are aware of other than the
4 ones mentioned in the annex to your report? And related to that, can you
5 anticipate when the disclosure to the Defence in this case will be finally
7 MR. FARRELL: To answer your last question first, if I may,
8 unfortunately I don't think it would be possible to maybe ever indicate if
9 there's a completion of the disclosure. As I indicated in my meeting with
10 the Defence yesterday, the other cases that relate to the area of
11 Srebrenica, as you know, are in the case of Mr. Blagojevic and also in the
12 case of Mr. Milosevic. Those cases, as you're fully aware, Mr. President,
13 are ongoing. And as a result of matters that arise in those cases, the
14 Prosecution is attempting to review the material that comes in, continue
15 any follow-up investigations or investigate any issues that the Defence
16 raises in those cases. The purpose of the last passage in paragraph 6 was
17 to inform you, which I'm fully aware of, that you and the Defence are
18 apprised of this matter, but there is ongoing cases that address the
19 same -- exact same region, and therefore if there is anything that arises
20 from those, they will be disclosed.
21 The second part of your question was is there any ongoing
22 investigations now? As far as I'm aware, besides the one that I mentioned
23 in relation to the persons listed in the disclosure report, as far as --
24 I'm not aware of any other information at the moment that is presently in
25 our possession or has come in as a result of the investigations, though I
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
1 do know that in fact the investigations in those two cases are ongoing.
2 It has been our position that as soon as it comes in, we will disclose it
3 as soon as possible. But as far as the Prosecution is concerned, we will
4 set a date and proceed with the matter. As things come in we'll apprise
5 you and, of course, disclose to the Defence immediately any issues that
6 arise. But as far as the material we have, we're ready to proceed. The
7 material that we have is continually being disclosed. And as it comes in,
8 I presume it's not Your Honour's intention - certainly not ours - to
9 postpone until the end of those trials, so we will continue on that basis.
10 JUDGE MERON: Thank you, Mr. Farrell. I'm sure, or at least I
11 like to hope, that everybody here is united in the desire to move this
12 case forward and to come hopefully to hearings before long.
13 MR. FARRELL: Thank you, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE MERON: Now I will -- is there anything else you would like
15 to raise?
16 MR. FARRELL: Not on behalf of the Prosecution. Thank you.
17 JUDGE MERON: Thank you very much. Then I will turn to the
18 Defence, and I would like to ask a few questions.
19 In paragraph 5 of its status report, the Prosecution indicates
20 that there are two individuals the Defence is still seeking to interview.
21 Their identities, of course, must be kept confidential. Are you still
22 seeking to interview these individuals, and if so, what have you, counsel
23 for the Defence, done in that regard?
24 MR. SEPENUK: The answer is yes, Your Honour, we are still seeking
25 to interview these two individuals. And Mr. Petrusic has made very
1 diligent efforts over the last few months to interview these folks. And
2 to this date has been unsuccessful. Mr. Petrusic is going to try again
3 this coming week to interview these folks voluntarily. We realise
4 that under the now recent decision of the Court we do have the power that
5 we can request the Court to issue subpoenas. We would like to avoid that
6 if possible. We know how difficult that procedure is, and how cumbersome
7 it is. When I say cumbersome it's no reflection on the Tribunal; it
8 simply takes time and effort. So if we can accomplish that in the next
9 week, we will. If we can't, we may reluctantly have to ask the assistance
10 of the Tribunal in issuing subpoenas to these two individuals. We're
11 hoping that we can do it without that, though.
12 JUDGE MERON: Thank you. I appreciate your efforts to proceed on
13 your own power, if I may. If I do need the assistance of the Appeals
14 Chamber, you know where to turn.
15 MR. SEPENUK: Thank you.
16 JUDGE MERON: Now, and my second question is do you expect to file
17 any more 115 motions? And if so, could we get an indication of when would
18 this be done?
19 MR. SEPENUK: We think we will, Your Honour. If the two
20 interviews -- by the way, there's one other interview, which in the
21 interest of confidentiality, I'm sure the Prosecution would agree with
22 this, one other gentleman who we're going to seek to interview. And we do
23 believe that either in that material or in material still to be disclosed
24 by the Prosecution, there will be a basis for a further motion because
25 Mr. Farrell himself acknowledges that in the material that's going to be
1 turned over to us, there's undoubtedly some Rule 68 materials. So -- in
2 an abundance of caution, rather than say we're not going to, my best
3 judgement, Your Honour, is we are going to file an addition supplemental
4 Rule 115 motion. Of course, we know Your Honour's desire and the
5 Chamber's desire to move this case along, and truly we do share that. And
6 we will be filing that motion just as soon as we possibly can.
7 JUDGE MERON: Thank you, counsel. Is there anything else that the
8 Defence would like to raise in today's status conference?
9 MR. SEPENUK: I don't think so, Your Honour. There is one
10 matter, and we raised this before Judge Hunt. General Krstic had his leg
11 amputated some years ago and has had problems since. He had an operation
12 some time ago by a Dutch surgeon, and at the last Status Conference in
13 March we asked the Judge if he might lend the assistance of the Tribunal
14 and the Registry to have that surgeon visit the General Krstic. We
15 thought that may have -- was done, but apparently it wasn't. So I just
16 wanted to inform Your Honour that today, I sent a letter to
17 Timothy McFadden at the Detention Centre a personal letter from General
18 Krstic with a cover letter from me asking Mr. McFadden to have the same
19 Dutch surgeon who accomplished that operation come to see General Krstic
20 because he is in continual pain, and I realise that you're not in this
21 business, Your Honour, I mention it to you because we're a little
22 disappointed that nothing was done following the March Status Conference.
23 And so I'm simply noting it for Your Honour. Hopefully within the next
24 few weeks that situation will be remedied.
25 JUDGE MERON: Well, thank you. And I really think you did the
1 right thing by raising this matter with me. I am very much concerned
2 about the continuing health problems, infections or whatever, that
3 General Krstic has suffering from. And I would appreciate it if the
4 Registrar, Madam Registrar, if you would inform the people concerned, that
5 I would like to have a report why nothing has been done that since the
6 Status Conference that my distinguished colleague, Judge Hunt, conducted.
7 I read the transcript of that conference, so I am well aware of the
8 problem. I have also assumed that the problem has been addressed.
9 Well, if there is nothing else that either the Defence or the
10 Prosecution would want to raise, let me just say that I am grateful to the
11 parties for their attendance, and this Status Conference is adjourned.
12 --- Whereupon the Status Conference hearing
13 adjourned at 2.44 p.m.