1 Tuesday, 14th December 1999
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.00 p.m.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Call the case, please.
7 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Case
8 IT-96-23-PT, the Prosecutor versus Dragoljub Kunarac
9 and Radomir Kovac.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Appearances, please.
12 MR. RYNEVELD: If it please the Court, Dirk
13 Ryneveld for the Prosecutor, and with me today are
14 Peggy Kuo, Hildegard Uertz-Retzlaff, our case manager
15 George Huber, and also assisting me is Daryl Mundis.
16 JUDGE HUNT: For Mr. Kunarac.
17 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Good
18 afternoon, Your Honour. My name is Slavica Prodanovic,
19 Defence counsel for Dragoljub Kunarac.
20 JUDGE HUNT: And for Mr. Kovac.
21 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
22 good afternoon. I am Momir Kolesar, attorney from
23 Belgrade, Defence counsel for the accused Mr. Radomir
25 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Kunarac, are you able to
1 hear the proceedings in a language which you
3 THE ACCUSED KUNARAC: [Interpretation] Yes,
4 Your Honour, I can hear and understand you.
5 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. Mr. Kovac, are you
6 able to hear the proceedings in a language that you
8 THE ACCUSED KOVAC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your
10 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. You may sit down.
11 Well, this Status Conference has been called
12 in order to resolve problems about the hearing date and
13 a number of other perhaps less important issues.
14 First of all, Mr. Kolesar, I have your motion
15 and I've read it. Is there anything you want to add to
17 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Yes, Your
18 Honour. My motion for delaying the beginning of a
19 trial I based on Article 20 of the Statute of the
20 International Tribunal.
21 JUDGE HUNT: I did say I had read it. I
22 don't want you to repeat it. Is there anything you
23 want to add to it?
24 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] I was just
25 going to say that I wished to add the following. The
1 Defence of Radomir Kovac has been prompted to request a
2 deferral of the beginning of trial; the shortness of
3 the time given to the Defence of Mr. Kovac to prepare
4 for trial. I have been in the case since the beginning
5 of September this year, and until the beginning of
6 trial I would only have had five months to prepare. I feel
7 this is too short a period because it is my duty, in order
8 to prepare for a fair and just trial to familiarise
9 myself with all the material disclosed by the
11 Four counts of the indictment have been
12 levelled against my defendant, but I also have to study
13 the general allegations in the indictment and, also,
14 since the last Status Conference, I was allowed to
15 exchange material with the Defence counsel of
16 Mr. Kunarac so that I have to study those materials as
18 Finally, it is also my duty to prepare the
19 evidence in defence of the accused Kovac, that
20 evidence, because these events took place a long time
21 ago, are scattered all over Bosnia, southern Serbia and
22 Montenegro, so that I will need a considerable amount
23 of time to find those materials. Also, I see that the
24 material mentions the trial, the proceedings against my
25 client in Podgorica. So I have to study those
1 materials and files as well.
2 Bearing all this in mind, the Defence counsel
3 of the accused Kovac is not able to prepare for the
4 trial properly if it were to begin on February
5 the 1st.
6 Furthermore, on the 21st of October, I
7 submitted a motion for another investigator and to this
8 day I have not received any answer from the Registry to
9 that request. I do not wish to complain, but --
10 JUDGE HUNT: Just one moment. Just pause on
11 that. According to the Registry records, you have
12 already two investigators. How many more are you
14 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
15 according to the records and information that I have
16 received from the Registry, I have designated one
17 investigator and a legal assistant; Snjezana Prodanovic
18 as an investigator, suggested by me. A request to that
19 effect was submitted on the 21st of October, and I
20 still have not been informed about it. There may have
21 been a decision by the Registry but I haven't received
23 JUDGE HUNT: There was. On the 4th of
24 November she was appointed. Have you not been informed
25 of that?
1 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] I have not been
2 informed, and I had just wanted to tell you something
3 else. My communication with the Registry is not
4 functioning very well. I submitted the addresses to
5 which materials can be sent to me; there's a telephone
6 number and a fax number. I also have a cubical at the
7 entrance to this building, but I'm still not receiving
8 the materials there. I'm getting the material from the
9 Kunarac Defence, from the Defence -- the former Defence
10 counsel, Igor Pantelic, who has not been the Defence
11 counsel for almost two years, and because of this poor
12 communication with the Registry, that is probably the
13 reason why I haven't been informed that I have a second
14 investigator as of the 4th of November.
15 JUDGE HUNT: Will you tell me, please, what
16 is the fax number to which you say the material should
17 be sent?
18 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] It is stated in
19 the heading, 003-811-169-5930 New Belgrade, Bulevar
20 Lenjina 201.
21 JUDGE HUNT: And you say that you have not
22 received any information about your co-counsel and your
23 investigators at that fax number?
24 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] No. No, no,
25 Your Honour. Regarding co-counsel, Mr. Domazet, that I
1 have been informed about. What I have not received is
2 information that the second investigator has been
3 appointed, a request that I submitted on the 21st of
5 JUDGE HUNT: Well, I can't answer you here,
6 but I'll have an investigation made at the Registry to
7 see where you were informed about her appointment.
8 According to the records, you were appointed on the 6th
9 of September, Ms. Radovic on the 14th of October,
10 Ms. Pilipovic on the 26th of October, Ms. Prodanovic on
11 the 4th of November, and Mr. Domazet on the 3rd of
13 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
14 all that is correct, except for the information
15 regarding investigator Snjezana Prodanovic.
16 JUDGE HUNT: I'll have that looked into,
17 yes. You may proceed. But so far, if I may say so,
18 you've added nothing to what is in the document you've
19 filed. What I am anxious to know is if there's
20 anything more you want to tell me than is in that
22 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] What is not
23 stated is my request for deferral for two months, which
24 means that it is my assessment that the Kovac Defence
25 would be ready for the beginning of trial at the
1 beginning of April 2000.
2 JUDGE HUNT: In your document, you state it
3 would take you two months to prepare and that was a
4 document filed at the end of November. Two months from
5 the end of November, even allowing for the Christmas
6 period, certainly does not justify a two-month delay.
7 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] It is evident
8 from this document that we requested deferral when we
9 heard that the trial date had been set for the 1st of
10 February. So we asked for a two-month delay as of the
11 1st of February, 2000.
12 JUDGE HUNT: You say this is in your document
13 requesting the delay, is it, or requesting postponement
14 of the commencement of the trial.
15 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] I am requesting
16 that the beginning of trial be postponed by two
17 months --
18 JUDGE HUNT: Look, Mr. Kolesar, we'll get on
19 a lot more quickly if you just answer my question.
20 Do you say there's something in this document
21 that you've filed which nominates a further delay of
22 two months?
23 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] If you are
24 referring to the document where I'm requesting a
25 postponement, no precise date is given. But I am now
1 being more precise and my request is for the trial to
2 begin at the beginning of April.
3 JUDGE HUNT: You did receive a fax, I
4 suppose, very shortly after you filed your document
5 requesting you to nominate the time needed and to do so
6 by the 6th of December. Did you receive such a fax
7 from the Tribunal?
8 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] The fax may
9 have reached my office but I didn't receive it because
10 I left on Saturday.
11 JUDGE HUNT: This was sent on the 30th of
12 November, that's well before last Saturday, and it was
13 sent to the number which is nominated at the top of
14 your document. You say you didn't receive that.
15 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] That was dated
16 the 30th of November, I received that fax, but in the
17 meantime I had submitted the request for postponement,
18 so I thought that --
19 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Kolesar, your request was
20 dated the 30th of November. It did not nominate any
21 specific time you wanted; indeed, you said you wanted
22 to inform the Trial Chamber in your own time as to how
23 long you needed. So a fax was sent to you and it asked
24 you to state as precisely as possible the time which
25 you would need and to notify us of that time by the 6th
1 of December. That was sent in response to your
3 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] I did not
4 reply -- that is my mistake; I'm sorry -- but I am now
5 being more precise and making this request, as I have
7 JUDGE HUNT: Let's look at this request for a
8 two-month delay. Have you got your motion for the
9 postponement? Have you got it there with you?
10 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Yes, I do.
11 JUDGE HUNT: On page 6 of that document, when
12 you are referring to the material which had been
13 delivered to you, you said that you would need two
14 months in order to deal with the material.
15 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] You said page
16 6, Your Honour?
17 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, I said page 6. In a very
18 long paragraph commencing with the words "According to
19 this letter which we are enclosing herewith ..." and
20 about eight or nine lines down, "... it would mean
21 practically two months of work ..." and then again,
22 "... nevertheless the fact remains that the vast
23 expansive material demands at least two months of
24 work ..."
25 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
1 the sentence reads: "The Defence would be ready to
2 work during the holidays, but nonetheless the quantity
3 of material requires at least two months just to read
4 through but not also to prepare for trial because this
5 requires additional time."
6 So "studying the material," I am referring to
7 the expert opinions, and what we have received from the
8 Kunarac Defence counsel requires two months for reading
9 it through, but that doesn't mean that in two months we
10 would be ready for the beginning of trial. That is the
11 meaning of this sentence.
12 JUDGE HUNT: Let us accept that that is the
13 meaning of the sentence. What can you put before me to
14 justify a further two months before the trial
16 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I
17 thought I was clear enough in my submission. I refer
18 to a certain article of the Statute, you said that you
19 have read it, and there's no need for me to repeat it.
20 I have no new additional reasons to give, except those
21 given in my letter, and I personally feel that those
22 reasons are justified and we will not be in a position
23 to follow hearings from the 1st of February if that
24 date were to be retained for the beginning of trial.
25 Please understand me. The Defence counsel is
1 unable physically to study properly the materials and
2 prepare the defence by that date.
3 JUDGE HUNT: You still, if I may say so, have
4 not answered my question, Mr. Kolesar. I am asking you
5 to justify a further two months, that's four months in
6 all, in order to be ready, allowing two months for
7 reading the material. What can you say to justify four
8 months before the trial begins?
9 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
10 this is stated in my motion in the following sentence:
11 "If we add to this the obligation of the Defence to
12 prepare its own evidence, then clearly the time
13 left --"
14 THE INTERPRETER: I'm sorry. The
15 interpreters do not have copies of these documents. We
17 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] "-- the Defence
18 is also obliged to prepare its own evidence, then it
19 becomes clear that the time left until the beginning of
20 trial does not guarantee the accused Kovac a proper
21 preparation of his defence according to Article 20(B),
22 because in that period of time, the accused will not
23 have enough time to be familiarised with the evidence
24 against him."
25 So, in fact, I'm asking for a two-month
1 postponement from the date set for trial, and when I
2 made that request I thought that I could spend December
3 and January studying the material or the bulk of it.
4 JUDGE HUNT: Is there anything more you want
5 to add?
6 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] No, thank you,
7 Your Honour.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you.
9 Now, on behalf of Mr. Kunarac, we've got a
10 document here which says he consents to the
11 adjournment; is that so?
12 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your
13 Honour. I was informed of these reasons by my
14 colleague, Mr. Kolesar, and though we had stated in
15 June already that we were ready for the beginning of
16 trial, we do not wish the Defence of the accused Kovac
17 to reproach us in the sense that they did not have
18 sufficient time to prepare for trial properly.
19 As we have waited this long, another two
20 months won't make any difference.
21 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you, Mr. Prodanovic.
22 Yes, Mr. Ryneveld, you specifically asked to
23 be heard on this question.
24 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. Thank you, Your Honour.
25 At the outset, our position is that the
1 Prosecution, of course, is anxious and prepared to
2 proceed to trial as quickly as possible. What is "as
3 quickly as possible," of course, is always determined
4 by what, under the circumstances, affords everyone an
5 opportunity for a fair trial. That, of course, is a
6 matter entirely within the discretion of the Court
7 based on the information that you obtain.
8 In fairness to my friends, I have to agree to
9 a certain extent that they have received -- at least
10 Mr. Kovac's counsel, Mr. Kolesar, has received a great
11 deal of material and a lot of material that he needs to
12 obviously go through, and --
13 JUDGE HUNT: And quite late too, from the
14 point of view of a 1st of February commencement.
15 MR. RYNEVELD: It is.
16 JUDGE HUNT: I can see his point there.
17 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
18 JUDGE HUNT: My question is how long should
19 the postponement be for.
20 MR. RYNEVELD: That, of course, is not a
21 matter that is for the Prosecution to determine. We
22 have had discussions and I've asked my friend more or
23 less the same kinds of questions that Your Honour has
24 posed today --
25 JUDGE HUNT: Did you get a better answer?
1 MR. RYNEVELD: I won't say it was a better
2 answer. There is, of course, a difference between what
3 counsel would optimally desire and what he could
4 probably be pressed to agreeing would be the minimum
5 time he needs.
6 My understanding is that they wanted more
7 time, but after discussions with us, I got more or less
8 the same answer you did, that the 1st of April would be
9 the first opportunity.
10 I told my friend, in fairness -- they asked
11 what our position was and I told them that that, of
12 course, was totally up to the Court but that I would be
13 hard-pressed to oppose an adjournment for a reasonable
14 period of time. What that amounts to, Your Honour, it
15 would be improper for me to suggest because that would
16 be usurping the function of the Court.
17 I think we have to take the position that
18 some adjournment for a reasonable period of time should
19 not be opposed by us. I certainly don't want to do the
20 trial twice for whatever reason, either for severance
21 if it's too long an adjournment or perhaps another body
22 looking at the decision sometime down the road. I
23 certainly wouldn't want either of those opportunities
24 to require either a severance or a second trial.
25 JUDGE HUNT: I think that need not be
1 emphasised. We all understand that particular
3 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
4 JUDGE HUNT: My particular concern is to
5 ensure that both parties receive a fair and an
6 expeditious trial.
7 MR. RYNEVELD: Absolutely.
8 JUDGE HUNT: I accept the argument that
9 Mr. Kolesar has put that "fair" is the predominant of
10 those two adjectives, and "expeditious" cannot make an
11 unfair trial a fair one. I'm satisfied, in my own
12 mind, that he is entitled to a postponement. If we
13 leave it for too long, of course, we may be asked for a
14 severance, and that's where I think we take into
15 account more than one party's point of view
16 provided -- and this is a very important proviso --
17 provided that Mr. Kovac has got sufficient time to
18 prepare for trial.
19 To suggest the five months, which is the
20 first submission made, is not sufficient for
21 preparation for trial is complete nonsense in my view,
22 but we do have to take into account he does have a lot
23 of reading to do. He has had since September when he
24 came on to prepare his defence. I know that he hasn't
25 had a final indictment to work on until fairly
1 recently, but the additional material there is fairly
2 small because the order that you file a more detailed
3 indictment was fairly limited. So very little of what
4 Mr. Kolesar has said has given me any assistance on the
6 Well, you wanted to address me. So far
7 you've said nothing else except that it's really my
8 concern. What do you want to say?
9 MR. RYNEVELD: What we wanted to be heard on
10 as well, in the event the Court was considering a
11 postponement --
12 JUDGE HUNT: There are other issues.
13 MR. RYNEVELD: There are other issues there.
14 JUDGE HUNT: I'm not concerned about those at
15 this stage, but I think we have to decide somehow what
16 date we should commence on.
17 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. I would not be so
18 presumptuous as to suggest a date, but if the Court is
19 satisfied, and all I can go on is the basis of what my
20 learned friend is telling the Court, and that is that
21 he is going to require approximately two months from
22 the 1st of February in order to adequately prepare for
23 trial. That's how I understand it.
24 JUDGE HUNT: I, frankly, don't accept that.
25 MR. RYNEVELD: I'm not suggesting that you
1 ought, I'm simply saying that's what I hear him
2 saying. Exactly what he intends to do during those two
3 months, of course, perhaps might be the subject for
4 further inquiry.
5 JUDGE HUNT: I've tried and got no answer.
6 So I'm left completely in the dark.
7 MR. RYNEVELD: I should simply say that the
8 Prosecution is prepared to proceed as soon as possible,
9 and whenever the Court indicates, we're prepared to go.
10 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
11 Well, Mr. Kolesar, you see my problem. I
12 really do need more assistance from you to explain why
13 you need two months to do what you've had, if I may say
14 so, since the 6th of September to do.
15 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
16 since the 6th of September onwards I have been studying
17 certain documents which I received from the
18 Prosecution. Those documents were large in scope
19 although my accused has only got four counts against
20 him, and they have been elaborated in detail. The
21 evidence with respect to the general portion, I had to
22 read through that and to see whether it had anything to
23 do with my defendant.
24 So in that period, on two occasions, I had to
25 travel to Foca to gather material. Next I had to go to
1 Sarajevo, to Rozaje, and to Novi Pazar as well, and
2 some of the material indeed was collected after the
3 last Status Conference was held. We received the
4 expert findings and additional evidence linked to
5 witnesses. As I state in my request, this material
6 comprises about 2.000 pages, which I have not had the
7 time to read. And as I say, I will have to keep
8 reading them all through December and January.
9 In addition to that, I received additional
10 material linked to and prepared by the Defence of
11 Kunarac, relating to both witnesses and expert findings
12 and reports. Once again, I personally have to study
13 all those documents.
14 Finally, I have to continue my work, you say
15 with two, I am willing to accept that, so two
16 investigators, although I thought I only had one, in
17 rounding off my defence strategy for Mr. Kovac, which
18 means gathering new evidence which will serve for his
20 JUDGE HUNT: You also have co-counsel,
21 Mr. Domazet.
22 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] That is
23 correct, Your Honour. My learned colleague Mr. Domazet
24 will be joining the team, which means he will have to
25 read through a great deal of the material that I have
1 already read through. Therefore, I cannot view the
2 matter partially and just separate what I received from
3 the OTP and from the Defence team of Mr. Kunarac and
4 everything I have to do with respect to my travels to
6 I'm looking at all this together, taking it
7 all together, and on the basis of that
8 all-embraciveness, I do believe that with all the work
9 ahead of me we shall be able to prepare a proper
10 defence for the beginning of April next year.
11 I don't know whether this helps you, but I
12 sincerely hope so.
13 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Ryneveld.
14 MR. RYNEVELD: One additional matter that you
15 may wish to take into consideration is the fact that
16 counsel have been, I think, productivity working on the
17 matter. There is another factor that may take up some
18 time between now and trial date, whenever that maybe,
19 and that -- I understand that the Defence is intending
20 to allow Mr. Kovac to be interviewed by the
21 Prosecution. That will take some time as well, but
22 that apparently will take place sometime between now
23 and the beginning of trial.
24 The other thing is we have had --
25 JUDGE HUNT: How long do you suggest that's
1 going to take?
2 MR. RYNEVELD: We don't know when it is that
3 they -- according to Defence, and you may want to make
4 some inquiries, but my understanding is once they have
5 read and completed their study of the documents which
6 have been provided by us, they will then be in a
7 position to allow us to interview Mr. Kovac.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. That gives us some idea as
9 to when they're going to do it, but how long is it
10 going to take once you get to that stage?
11 MR. RYNEVELD: I would imagine that our
12 interview wouldn't take more than a day at best. If
13 it's anything like Mr. Kunarac, we did it over two days
14 but it was broken in two small portions. I don't think
15 that, in particular, is going to take a lot of time but
16 it is yet another step that needed to be -- I'm just
17 trying to provide information to the Court to make a
18 fully informed decision.
19 The other matter is we have had some
20 productive discussions about experts and the hope
21 perhaps to reduce the number of experts that we have
22 already served notice.
23 JUDGE HUNT: Well, you've received a notice
24 and reply that they want to cross-examine all of your
1 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. Shall we say that we're
2 in discussions as to whether or not there be some
3 reconsideration of those matters.
4 JUDGE HUNT: All right.
5 MR. RYNEVELD: Again just by way of
7 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. Well, it's clear
8 that the trial cannot proceed on the 1st of February as
9 it was hoped, and it is unfortunate that is so.
10 However, faced as I am with a fair case for a
11 postponement, the trial will be postponed.
12 I do not, however, accept that a further two
13 months should be allowed. It is, if I may say so,
14 unreal to suggest that co-counsel has to read the whole
15 of the material which counsel has already read. The
16 idea of having more than one counsel is that the tasks
17 to be done can be split up between them. Nevertheless,
18 I accept that there is a great deal of work to be done
19 and that it will take a considerable period of time.
20 In those circumstances, the trial date will
21 be postponed, to commence on Monday, the 20th of
23 Now, Mr. Ryneveld, in those circumstances you
24 will want a delay in the disclosure of the unredacted
1 MR. RYNEVELD: That's correct, please, Your
3 JUDGE HUNT: At the moment you've been
4 ordered to supply them. I think it's about six weeks
5 prior to the hearing.
6 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. That was, I believe, in
7 light of the pending holiday season.
8 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. Well, if we made it the
9 31st of January, that seems to be about the same time.
10 MR. RYNEVELD: That would be acceptable.
11 JUDGE HUNT: Very well. Then the unredacted
12 witness statements are to be served now on or before
13 the 31st of January.
14 Now, there are a number of other matters
15 which you have raised, Mr. Ryneveld. The first of them
16 that I see in your list is the general schedule for the
17 trial. That's a matter which will have to await the
18 return of Judge Mumba, who is the Presiding Judge. She
19 will be back at the Tribunal next Monday. In fact, we
20 had hoped that she might be able to conduct the Status
21 Conference but there are no courts available as from
22 the end of this week. So we took advantage of the fact
23 that counsel were all here today to have the Status
24 Conference today.
25 I will discuss it with Judge Mumba next week,
1 and we'll issue a scheduling order which will nominate
2 the hours and the number of days and whether we will be
3 sitting continuously or having breaks at any particular
4 time. So that one, I'm afraid, we can't determine.
5 The next matter you've raised is you want to
6 have cleared up any confusion there may be as to
7 whether either of the accused is raising the issue of
8 alibi or some other so-called special defence as the
9 Rules rather misleadingly call it.
10 So I think, if I may, I will ask counsel and
11 see what's going to happen.
12 Mr. Prodanovic, you presently have given
13 notice of an alibi, I understand. Is that so?
14 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your
15 Honour. We state the periods; that is to say, from the
16 7th to the 21st of July and the 2nd of August. Those
17 are periods which we shall use a defence by alibi, and
18 we inform the Prosecution thereof. And also from the
19 23rd to the 26th.
20 JUDGE HUNT: But you have -- you've given the
21 names of the witnesses but you have not given their
22 addresses which the Rule requires.
23 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
24 those are displaced persons mostly, and their addresses
25 have changed as well as the names of streets in Foca.
1 The names of streets in Foca have also been changed and
2 I don't know the names of any streets. All the streets
3 which up to the war had certain names have now been
5 JUDGE HUNT: Nevertheless, even if you gave
6 the Prosecution the old names of the streets, they may
7 be able to make some investigations, because they too
8 will be able to find out the new names of the streets.
9 You have to give them something.
10 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
11 Foca is a small town. Everybody knows everybody else.
12 So a name and surname is sufficient, and it's no
13 problem to find the person in question. It is a town
14 of some 10,000 inhabitants and everybody knows
15 everybody else.
16 JUDGE HUNT: So they're all residing in Foca,
17 are they?
18 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes,
19 they are.
20 JUDGE HUNT: We'll see if Mr. Ryneveld has
21 anything to say about that later. Is that the only
22 issue that you're raising within the meaning of the
24 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] If the
25 addresses are a problem, I shall be happy to help the
1 Prosecution in coming by those addresses and reaching
2 the witnesses. That is not a problem.
3 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
4 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,
5 Your Honour.
6 JUDGE HUNT: Mr. Kolesar, you have not yet
7 given any written formal notice or at least none has
8 been filed. Are you raising any issue of alibi or
9 so-called special defence?
10 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
11 according to the indictment as it now stands, which is
12 in force at the moment, we have no need to use a
13 defence by alibi or any special defence.
14 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
15 Mr. Ryneveld, what about the question of
16 addresses. Are you happy to speak to Mr. Prodanovic to
17 see what can be done or have somebody consult with him
18 as to where these witnesses may be found?
19 MR. RYNEVELD: That would certainly be a
20 start. We'll try that. I would follow up on Your
21 Honour's suggestion that we be provided with whatever
22 addresses he now has to assist our investigators in
23 perhaps locating them. Any other assistance he may be
24 able to provide would be most gratefully appreciated.
25 JUDGE HUNT: Yes. All right.
1 I think, Mr. Prodanovic, if you would supply
2 at least the addresses that you've presently got, if
3 you could do that within seven days, and then there can
4 be further discussion between the parties as to any
5 further assistance you can give. Would that be
7 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that is
8 possible, Your Honour, and I talked to the OTP about
9 the possibilities of the OTP having an interview with
10 one of the witnesses and I said that I will try and
11 have this witness come to talk to them. So as far as
12 what we have just heard, the Prosecution can be assured
13 that I am willing to cooperate with them. There will
14 be no problems in that regard.
15 Thank you, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE HUNT: I thank you for that.
17 Has there been any discussion, Mr. Ryneveld,
18 about the authenticity of the exhibits now that you've
19 filed a list?
20 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. We, in fact, have been
21 working on that, and my understanding is, subject to
22 being corrected, that the Defence is not objecting to the
23 authenticity of the documents that we have filed.
24 That's my understanding in our discussions, and they're
25 both nodding in agreement so ...
1 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you. What about agreed
2 facts, or at least an acceptance that you may prove
3 some facts in a fairly general way?
4 MR. RYNEVELD: We have worked very diligently
5 on that, including this morning, and we are very close
6 to having agreed on, I would say, the bulk of them. I
7 think there are two outstanding matters that need
8 refinement of terminology that's acceptable to both
9 sides, but I'm happy to report that we appear to be
10 well on the way to completion of that process as well.
11 JUDGE HUNT: That sounds good. Now, was
12 there anything else that you wanted to raise?
13 MR. RYNEVELD: Just two things by way of
14 housekeeping matters, if I may refer to them as such.
15 JUDGE HUNT: Yes.
16 MR. RYNEVELD: One is I also asked my friends
17 this morning whether or not -- at least Mr. Kolesar,
18 perhaps it's premature to ask him this, but whether
19 there were any anticipated further challenges to the
20 amended indictment that was filed on the 2nd of
21 December. So I just wanted to find out where we are
22 with that.
23 The second matter that I wanted to raise for
24 the Court, and perhaps you may wish to wait until
25 you've had an opportunity to speak to the Presiding
1 Judge, but whether or not it would be appropriate to,
2 at this time, discuss a date for a Pre-Trial
4 JUDGE HUNT: Well, I was going to say that at
5 the very end.
6 MR. RYNEVELD: Oh, I'm sorry.
7 JUDGE HUNT: It will be up to the Presiding
8 Judge to set a date but it will obviously be well in
9 advance of the trial.
10 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
11 JUDGE HUNT: And we've now got a lot of time
12 next year in which it could be held.
13 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes.
14 JUDGE HUNT: I would anticipate that it would
15 be sometime in January but it might now be early
16 February, because we want to take advantage of
17 Mr. Kolesar's hard work, when he will be in a position
18 at the Pre-Trial Conference to tell us a little bit
19 more about what he's going to do.
20 MR. RYNEVELD: Yes. Before I close, may I
21 just check with my learned colleagues to see if there
22 is some point that I may have missed.
23 JUDGE HUNT: Yes, certainly.
24 MR. RYNEVELD: Thank you. I'm assured that
25 those are the things on our list of things to discuss,
1 so thank you very much, Your Honour.
2 JUDGE HUNT: Thank you very much.
3 Mr. Prodanovic and Mr. Kolesar, are there any
4 matters that you want to raise, bearing in mind this is
5 a Status Conference and it's an opportunity for you to
6 raise matters that you want to raise in court?
7 MR. PRODANOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour,
8 we have no further matters to raise. For the most
9 part, we are in the final stages of consultations with
10 the Prosecution regarding these stipulations, and I
11 hope that tomorrow, when we have agreed upon a meeting,
12 we will have the final version with relation to the two
13 questions in dispute.
14 JUDGE HUNT: Good. Thank you very much.
15 How about you, Mr. Kolesar? Any matters you
16 want to raise?
17 MR. KOLESAR: [Interpretation] I do not wish
18 to say anything new. I should just like to thank you,
19 Your Honour, and the Prosecution for showing your
20 understanding with respect to the issue of the
21 postponement of the Kovac trial. Thank you.
22 JUDGE HUNT: If nobody wants to raise any
23 further issues, I'll adjourn shortly, but first of all
24 I want to say there will be a scheduling order issued
25 hopefully next week nominating a date for the Pre-Trial
1 Conference and also setting out the anticipated sitting
2 hours and days.
3 I would like to thank everybody concerned for
4 sorting out the question of the hearing date. Perhaps
5 nobody is fully satisfied, but that's the usual test
6 that the Court's done its job.
7 Thank you very much. I will adjourn.
8 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
9 adjourned at 2.45 p.m. sine die