1 Monday, 28th September, 1998
2 (The accused entered court)
3 (Open session)
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
6 Case number IT-95-16-T, the Prosecutor versus Zoran
7 Kupreskic, Mirjan Kupreskic, Vlatko Kupreskic, Drago
8 Josipovic, Dragan Papic and Vladimir Santic, also known
9 as "Vlado."
10 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you. Good morning.
11 Mr. Moskowitz?
12 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Good morning, Mr. President.
13 To begin, would I just like to ascertain and make sure
14 the Court has the new list of witnesses for this week.
15 It's the same witnesses as the former list, with one
16 exception; we are eliminating the former number 2 in an
17 attempt to streamline, that would be John Wall, who
18 would not have been a protected witness, and the new
19 order is as now listed on the new list.
20 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you.
21 MR. MOSKOWITZ: In addition, I would like to
22 inform the Court that over the weekend the Victim and
23 Witnesses Unit contacted me with a message from the
24 witness that we had last week, who requested that he be
25 allowed to look at the diary or the log that was
1 discussed on cross-examination, and as I recall during
2 the cross-examination of that witness, he had some
3 difficulty recognising it as his, it was a Xerox copy,
4 two pages were on a single sheet of Xerox paper, and
5 there was some discussion about allowing him to have
6 some time to look at the original. I think there was
7 an understanding at that time that there was, in fact,
8 an original having been submitted in another case for
10 Our understanding now is that, in fact, there
11 is no original yet submitted in that other case. The
12 copy was not submitted for evidence, it was submitted
13 for only identification at this point, although I think
14 there's some indication that there will be a witness in
15 that case to introduce that diary at a later date. The
16 witness has not had an opportunity to study the Xerox
17 copy, except for the short amount of time he had during
19 So the Victim and Witnesses Unit did convey
20 that message to me, and I convey that to the Court. I
21 request that the Court grant him an opportunity to look
22 at the Xerox copy and give him sufficient amount of
23 time to do that so that he can make a determination
24 about whether he authored some or all of that diary.
25 In connection with that though, I would like
1 to also raise Rule 95 with the Court and with Defence
2 counsel, which refers to evidence that is obtained in a
3 way that is -- would throw doubt on its reliability or
4 on the integrity of the proceedings. I raise that Rule
5 to stress that I think that it might be useful for the
6 Court to determine, as an initial matter, how that
7 diary came into the possession of the Defence, whether,
8 in fact, it came into position in some illegal manner,
9 through a theft, through an illegal search of this
10 man's home. The evidence indicates this man was forced
11 from his home, and if he was illegally forced from his
12 home, as I think the evidence shows, and then these
13 very same people then entered his home and did a
14 search, there may be some issue with respect to Rule
15 95. At least as an initial matter, it may be useful to
16 make that inquiry to get an idea of where this diary
17 came from.
18 The reliability of this diary as a piece of
19 evidence, I think, though, ultimately depends upon who
20 wrote it, and whether the witness can identify and then
21 offer explanations. But I think, as an initial matter,
22 Rule 59 might have to be dealt with.
23 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you.
24 Counsel Slokovic-Glumac?
25 MS. SLOKOVIC-GLUMAC: Your Honours, first of
1 all, I would like to apologise for giving information
2 which was wrong on Friday. That is to say I thought
3 that the diary was either with General Blaskic's
4 Defence or in the records, but as I know that they
5 filed -- whether the diary was with the file or not.
6 So there was a misunderstanding, and I'm very sorry for
7 that. I did not want to cast any doubt on anybody, but
8 I just did not have information available.
9 I would like to say, with regard to how the
10 diary was found and the circumstances governing that,
11 that we talked to a witness called Ivica Vidovic
12 Jevco. He is from Ahmici, and he found the diary --
13 that is to say his son found the diary, and he will be
14 a witness in this case. So the circumstances governing
15 the diary and how it was found, we'll be able to hear
16 it directly from the testimony of the witness.
17 After that, the witness handed over the diary
18 to the Vitez Brigade, and a copy of that diary we
19 received later on and we have the not seen the original
20 of the diary. I have asked the counsel of General
21 Blaskic to tell me where the original is located at the
22 moment, but they referred to client-attorney privilege,
23 and so they were not able to supply me with that
24 information. But we will, of course, for our part, try
25 to find out where it is, because we know how important
1 the diary is.
2 For the moment, we can say -- we'll be able
3 to say whether the facts correspond to what was brought
4 up here by the witness on Friday, that is to try to
5 ascertain -- to identify the diary on the basis of the
6 facts, and, therefore, we would like to have our
7 proposal that we have a graphological examination of
8 the handwriting if possible. Thank you.
9 JUDGE CASSESE: Of course, the graphological
10 information, the expertise, can all be made on the
11 original. So if we don't have the original, we won't
12 proceed to such expertise. Let us see.
13 Then I would like to -- I'm sorry, I regret
14 that the -- over the weekend the witness was not given
15 an opportunity to take a look at the photocopy. This
16 was my understanding.
17 MR. MOSKOWITZ: I think there was some
18 confusion, Mr. President, at the end of the day. He
19 had a -- the photocopy that was marked, the Court's
20 evidence, in front of him. He did not take it, and I
21 think there was some confusion about whether he should
22 look at the photocopy or the original, and there was a
23 discussion about the original. I, frankly, thought he
24 had the photocopy. When I realised he didn't, it was
25 too late to come back to the Court, everyone was
1 dispersed. Then when he communicated to us through the
2 Victim and Witnesses Unit, I think our only recourse at
3 that time was to wait until the Court convened to alert
5 JUDGE CASSESE: Shall we go on with the
6 evidence of the witness?
7 Now, we have decided that we will -- to save
8 time, we will now ask the registrar to hand over a copy
9 of the diary to the witness so that he can have time to
10 go through it, a copy of the Bosnian original, and
11 meanwhile, we go on with another witness, and later on
12 we will resume the cross-examination of this particular
13 witness. So we move on to witness number 2 on our new
15 I think, Mr. Terrier, you wish to attribute a
16 pseudonym to this witness.
17 MR. TERRIER: This will be the Witness W,
18 Your Honour.
19 (The witness entered court)
20 JUDGE CASSESE: Good morning. Would you
21 please stand and read the solemn declaration?
22 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will
23 speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
25 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you. You may be seated
1 WITNESS: WITNESS W.
2 Examined by Mr. Terrier:
3 MR. TERRIER:
4 Q. Witness, I'm going to hand to you a sheet of
5 paper on which your name appears. Could you please
6 confirm that it is your name that appears on the sheet
7 of paper?
8 A. Yes. Yes, it is.
9 MR. RADOVIC: Once again the diacritic is
10 missing on the C. The diacritic above the C in two
11 places, in his name and the end of his surname.
12 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you.
13 MR. TERRIER: We do apologise, Mr. Radovic.
14 Your Honour, I wonder if maybe it will be a
15 good thing to go at once into closed session. This
16 would enable me to give you a number of identifying
17 elements on this witness.
18 JUDGE CASSESE: Closed session.
19 (Closed session)
13 Pages 3148 to 3229 redacted in closed session
11 --- Recess taken at 12.35 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 12.53 p.m.
13 (Open session)
14 JUDGE CASSESE: Mr. Moskowitz.
15 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Yes, Mr. President. The next
16 witness has requested protection of face and name, and
17 she will be Witness X.
18 (The witness entered court)
19 JUDGE CASSESE: Good morning. Would you
20 please read the solemn declaration?
21 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will
22 speak the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the
24 JUDGE CASSESE: Thank you.
25 THE WITNESS: WITNESS X.
1 Examined by Mr. Moskowitz:
2 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Good afternoon, witness.
3 Could you push up your chair up a little closer to the
4 microphone so we can hear you well? Thank you.
5 At this time I will hand to the usher the
6 next Prosecution exhibit, which is a slip of paper with
7 a name on it.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit number 223.
9 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Are we in open session?
10 THE REGISTRAR: Yes.
11 JUDGE CASSESE: Mr. Moskowitz?
12 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Thank you, Mr. President.
13 Q. Witness, you have asked for protection
14 measures and they have been granted by the Court. So
15 we are going to refer to you as Witness X rather than
16 by using your name. During the course of your
17 testimony --
18 A. Thank you.
19 Q. -- if it's necessary to talk about certain
20 things that might give away your identity, we will ask
21 to go into closed session, and if the Tribunal agrees
22 to that then in closed session your voice will not
23 leave this room and you can feel comfortable to provide
24 full and complete testimony at that point as well. Do
25 you understand that?
1 A. Yes, I do.
2 Q. Could you first tell us what year you were
3 born in?
4 A. 1952.
5 Q. And up until April 16, 1993, where did you
6 live, in what village?
7 A. I lived in Ahmici, at Zume. I lived there up
8 till the 16th of April, 1993.
9 Q. Without giving us any names, could you tell
10 us the family members who lived with you during those
11 days before April 16, 1993?
12 A. My husband (redacted), my daughter (redacted), my
13 daughter (redacted), my daughter (redacted) and my son.
14 MR. MOSKOWITZ: Perhaps it's best to go into
15 closed session?
16 A. My son (redacted).
17 (Closed session).
13 Pages 3233 to 3248 redacted in closed session
20 --- Whereupon proceedings adjourned at
21 1.29 p.m., to be reconvened on Tuesday,
22 the 29th day of September, 1998, at 9.30 a.m.