Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 461

1 Thursday, 13 February 2003

2 [Open session]

3 --- Upon commencing at 3 p.m.

4 JUDGE ROBINSON: Will the Registrar call the case, please. Please

5 call the case.

6 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour. This is Case Number

7 IT-99-37-PT, the Prosecutor versus Milan Milutinovic, Nikola Sainovic, and

8 Dragoljub Ojdanic.

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: I'm going to ask for the appearances, even though

10 the accused are not here. I understand they will be here shortly. For

11 the Prosecution.

12 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, for the Prosecution, it will be myself,

13 Milbert Shin, together with Mr. Michael Johnson.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. And for the accused, for

15 Mr. Sainovic.

16 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] Good day, Your Honour. Attorney Toma

17 Fila and Mr. Petrovic and Mr. Jovanovic appearing for Mr. Sainovic. Thank

18 you.

19 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. For Mr. Ojdanic.

20 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Tomislav Nisnjic with

21 Peter Robinson and Vojislav Selezan.

22 JUDGE ROBINSON: And for Mr. Milutinovic.

23 MR. LIVINGSTON: John Livingston for Mr. Milutinovic.

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.

25 [The accused entered court]

Page 462

1 JUDGE ROBINSON: The accused may sit. We have a number of matters

2 to consider in this Status Conference. Some of them arising from the

3 presence of a new accused. That may require us to revisit some of the

4 dates that we have fixed. I have a list of matters that I will go

5 through, and as I raise them, I'll call on counsel to comment. So counsel

6 will react to the specific questions that I've raised and not speak

7 generally about the matters.

8 I'll start with the pending motions, the preliminary motions. We

9 have a motion from Mr. Sainovic on the form of the indictment. We have a

10 motion from Mr. Ojdanic challenging the jurisdiction in respect of Kosovo

11 and joint criminal enterprise. I have to say that a decision will be

12 given on the latter very soon, most likely next week.

13 The disclosure of supporting material to Mr. Milutinovic was

14 expected to be completed in early February. I understand, Mr. Shin, that

15 that was done yesterday. Is that so?

16 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, that's correct. We completed the Rule

17 66(A)(i) disclose yesterday. The vast majority of the material had been

18 disclosed on the -- at the initial appearance of the accused or possibly

19 shortly thereafter. There was one item -- one single item that we were

20 not in a position to disclose until either late yesterday or this morning

21 due to some technical difficulties.

22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.

23 MR. LIVINGSTON: Can I just indicate that I received that one

24 remaining item this morning -- or actually when I arrived at the Tribunal

25 building. So I think it's right to say that that disclosure has been

Page 463

1 completed.

2 JUDGE ROBINSON: Very well. Thank you. I understand that an

3 inquiry has been made as to whether the Trial Chamber would wait until it

4 has received any preliminary motions that Mr. Milutinovic may file, and

5 then determine all the motions together, or whether we will be ruling on

6 the current motions. I am to say that we will rule on the current motions

7 as expeditiously as possible.

8 Motions for provisional release, we have a motion from

9 Mr. Milutinovic for provisional release in respect of which the

10 Prosecution has filed its response. And we have also had a reply from the

11 Defence. What we're waiting on is a medical report which the Chamber

12 requested, and that is due on February 21st. And both the accused

13 Mr. Ojdanic and Mr. Sainovic have now filed further requests for

14 provisional release. And Mr. Sainovic has specifically requested an oral

15 hearing. The responses of the Prosecution to these filings are due on the

16 24th of February. And I am going to fix Tuesday, March the 11th at

17 3 p.m. for a hearing of all these provisional motions.

18 Protective measures, we have a motion filed first ex parte then

19 inter partes by the Prosecution for protective measures in respect of nine

20 witnesses, I believe. And the Defence responses to that motion are due on

21 the 18th of February.

22 We also have the review of the Registrar's assessment for

23 contributions in respect of Mr. Sainovic. We had filed last week comments

24 by the Defence, and I'm in a position to say that the decision on that

25 will be given on Monday or Tuesday of next week. There's also the

Page 464

1 question of an application for a binding order addressed to NATO, to the NATO

2 states, that's from Mr. Ojdanic. And responses from the relevant states

3 are expected at the end of February.

4 I turn now to the question of the pre-trial briefs. I had fixed

5 the 31st of March for the submission of the Prosecution pre-trial brief

6 relating to Mr. Ojdanic and Mr. Sainovic. In view of the fact that any

7 preliminary motion to be filed by Mr. Milutinovic might not be determined

8 prior to that time, that's the 31st of March, it would appear to be good

9 sense to extend the date for the filing of the Prosecution pre-trial

10 brief. And the date that I have fixed is - and I have here calculated

11 reasonable time periods - would be May the 30th or one month after the

12 determination of all the preliminary motions, whichever is the later date.

13 The disclosure of witness statements, the 66(A)(i) statements,

14 disclosure has been completed for Ojdanic and Sainovic apart from some

15 problems relating to the disclosure of material that had been submitted to

16 the confirming judge, Judge Hunt. The Registry has been looking into this

17 matter and has been a facilitator, and I've just been informed that the

18 practical arrangements for that disclosure are in place and proceeding

19 well. So unless I hear otherwise from any of the parties, I take it that

20 that matter has been attended to.

21 As to 66(A)(ii) statements, the Prosecutor has filed a notice of

22 compliance, informing the Chamber that it has made full disclosure with

23 the exception of three sets of statements, the nine witnesses to whom the

24 application for protective measures related, and the nine witness

25 statements not yet available in B/C/S, and the three transcripts of prior

Page 465

1 witnesses which are said to be not yet available. Mr. Shin, the nine

2 witnesses in respect of whom the application for protective measures has

3 been made, that's understood that you wouldn't be in a position to make

4 disclosure. But for the other two categories, that is, the nine witness

5 statements not yet available in B/C/S and the three transcripts of prior

6 witnesses not yet available, I have in mind fixing March the 31st for

7 disclosure of those two categories of statements.

8 There's just one other matter relating to disclosure, witness

9 statements, Mr. Shin, and it's to fix a date for the disclosure of the

10 witness statements in general. And again, I would fix March the 31st for

11 that disclosure.

12 Expert witnesses --

13 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, if I could just ask clarification about

14 the point of disclosure of witness statements in general, are you

15 referring to the 66(A)(ii) disclosure for the accused Milutinovic or do

16 you have something else in mind?

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: That would be for Ojdanic and Sainovic, and also

18 for Milutinovic.

19 MR. SHIN: Okay. Thank you.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: Expert witnesses, my information is that the

21 Prosecution has indicated that it has not been able to serve two of the

22 expert reports by the date that was fixed, Friday, the 31st of January.

23 And those two are the reports from the constitutional expert and the MUP

24 expert. Mr. Shin, would you comment on that for me.

25 MR. SHIN: Yes. We are not yet in a position to disclose those

Page 466

1 reports, and we will endeavour to do so as soon as that is possible. With

2 regards to the expert reports disclosed generally, just to note that we

3 have of course disclosed these reports and not filed them pursuant to Rule

4 94 bis, and it may be that that would come at a later stage since the

5 accused may not be in a position at this point to indicate whether they

6 would be wanting to cross-examine those experts or not.

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes. With those that have not yet been served

8 should be served by the 31st of March. Would you also comment, Mr. Shin,

9 on the question of the translation of these reports.

10 MR. SHIN: My understanding, Your Honour, is that there is one

11 translation that is pending a report done by Mr. Phillip Coo, that is

12 pending. And I will have to get back to you on the others if there are

13 any problems with that.

14 JUDGE ROBINSON: When you say it's pending, I mean what do you

15 mean? What's the time frame for it to be translated?

16 MR. SHIN: If I could just have a moment.

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes.

18 MR. SHIN: I have been told that it will be done by the end of

19 March, if not earlier.

20 JUDGE ROBINSON: All right. Very well. Thank you.

21 Rule 68 disclosure, the Ojdanic Defence had identified six

22 categories of material that the Prosecutor had indicated it would withhold

23 from disclosure under Rule 68 until consent of the Rule 70 provider was

24 obtained. I believe this matter has now been settled by the decision of

25 the Trial Chamber, but it would still leave untouched, Mr. Shin, the

Page 467

1 disclosure under Rule 68 which is not related to any Rule 70 matter. And

2 that is a question that is outstanding. There is an obligation under 68

3 to disclose as soon as practicable, but there must be a limit as to the

4 time frame within which the Prosecutor takes to comply with that.

5 Would you comment on that for me.

6 MR. SHIN: Yes, Your Honour. The Prosecution is aware of its

7 obligations and is taking all measures to comply with its obligations. If

8 I could just say a few things about the status of the Rule 68 disclosure

9 at this stage, maybe to address first some recent developments. The last

10 Rule 68 report filed in this case was, I believe, on the 10th of October

11 of 2002. That report reflected disclosure made up to and including the

12 17th of September. Since then, between September and January of this

13 year, a number of additional materials have been disclosed under Rule 68,

14 and some of these -- I could either relate these here or next week we

15 intend to file a new report that would capture all of this material and

16 maybe perhaps that's just as well.

17 We are progressing in our Rule 68 disclosure. Currently we

18 anticipate that there may still be some 1200-person workdays involved in

19 completing the searches, and I'm told by the unit that's in charge of

20 these searches that that constitutes remaining perhaps 25 per cent of the

21 searches that need to be done. A large proportion of those searches are

22 also resulting from some search criteria proposed by the accused Ojdanic

23 which are reasonable, and therefore we have incorporated them into our

24 Rule 68 search criteria.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: Can you translate 1200-person workdays into

Page 468

1 language that is more understandable.

2 MR. SHIN: It's a little difficult to do that due to various work

3 loads. As Your Honour may be aware of the various pools of the staff

4 doing this. There may be some systemic issues that Mr. Johnson will

5 address in relation to the disclosure of Rule 68 materials. I'm not sure

6 that we can give a precise date, but we are still planning to accomplish

7 this in the next couple of months as we had indicated previously.

8 JUDGE ROBINSON: What I will do in view of that is to have this

9 matter reviewed at the next Status Conference, the date for which I'll

10 give shortly. So the next Status Conference, we'll review the question of

11 Rule 68 disclosure.

12 Yes, Mr. Visnjic.

13 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just wished to draw

14 your attention to the following, and I wish to make a proposal as well.

15 We heard in this courtroom today of a witness statement that would

16 certainly fall under Rule 68. We do not know when the Prosecution came

17 into possession of this material, but in view of the beginning of the

18 trial of Mr. Milosevic, we can only assume that this happened at least a

19 year ago. During this past year, as regards this statement or some of its

20 portions that may fall under Rule 68, we did not get any of this.

21 Therefore, we would be inclined to ask the Trial Chamber to give a

22 deadline to the Office of the Prosecutor, at least with regard to such

23 statements and any other material that the Trial Chamber believes would

24 fall into this category.

25 So relying upon their resources, could they please provide us with

Page 469

1 such important material so that we could work on our defence properly.

2 What we heard today shows an approach that does not correspond to what the

3 OTP has been telling us all along. We have an important witness statement

4 and a very long period of time during which the OTP has been in possession

5 of this, and we have simply not received this information.

6 As far back as in April last year, on the 26th of April, we made

7 submissions asking for the Defence to receive statements of interalia

8 persons subordinated to General Ojdanic. We have been renewing this

9 request time and again and we have been reassured by the Prosecution that

10 they would grant this request of ours, and we have confirmation from what

11 we heard here today that this request was justified.

12 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Shin, I just ask you to respond to what has

13 just been said, that you have been in possession of a particular statement

14 which could fall under Rule 68. And it has not yet been disclosed.

15 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, the -- as I mentioned earlier, the

16 Prosecution is still in its process of doing its Rule 68 review. There

17 are certain areas that we will intensify our efforts to try to address

18 more rapidly. And with regards to this particular witness statement in

19 question, perhaps I could speak to my learned colleague after the Status

20 Conference.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, well, please give some comfort. Yes,

22 Mr. Livingston.

23 MR. LIVINGSTON: Your Honour, perhaps I could just add one point

24 about the Rule 68 procedure, as I understood it Mr. Shin was saying that

25 he hoped that the Prosecution would be able to complete the Rule 68

Page 470

1 procedure within about two months, whatever the gobbledygook about

2 1200-person work hours means. In those circumstances, I don't of course

3 know what date Your Honour is going to set for the next Status Conference,

4 but that could be up to four months away, and I'm wondering whether Your

5 Honour might consider setting a rather more stringent timetable, bearing

6 in mind the Prosecution themselves suggest they should have completed it

7 within two months.

8 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Livingston. That's an interesting

9 point. Mr. Shin, I had in mind setting the 13th of June as the date of

10 the next Status Conference. Can I confirm that you had indicated that you

11 would expect to complete the Rule 68 disclosure within the next two or

12 three months?

13 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, given the choice between two or three

14 months, it may be wiser for me to offer the three months. Again, we will

15 be taking all measures that we can to comply with our Rule 68 obligations.

16 And if given a deadline, we will promptly inform Your Honour of any

17 difficulties that we may have in meeting that.

18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. I'm still inclined having heard all

19 the submissions to maintain the approach that I outlined earlier, which is

20 that I expect the Prosecutor to act in good faith in regard to its Rule 68

21 disclosure. And I take it that the Prosecutor is doing that. And at the

22 next Status Conference, we will review the matter and if necessary make a

23 ruling on it.

24 The next item is the question of the ongoing disclosure from the

25 Milosevic case. As you might recall, the Trial Chamber had directed the

Page 471

1 Ojdanic and Sainovic Defence teams to liaise with the Registry to obtain

2 all public transcripts and exhibits in the Kosovo phase of the Milosevic

3 case. I understand that some practical problems have been experienced in

4 this arrangement, and perhaps counsel might want to comment on that.

5 Any comments from counsel on that issue?

6 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, today we were told by

7 the Registry that they are working on this and that part of the material

8 which they could not deliver to us by the 31st of January for technical

9 reasons will be delivered within the next few days. However, the issue of

10 the list submitted to us by the Prosecution which represents material that

11 they consider to have disclosed to us, it's a list of 48 pages dated the

12 31st of January. This list contains numerous elements that depend on the

13 Registry performing their task, and they are to coordinate with the Office

14 of the Prosecutor. However, there is also some material pertaining to the

15 latest report by Phillip Coo which was not been disclosed to us. We see

16 here that these documents exist, but they have not been disclosed to us.

17 And as they are listed here, it is not even clear to me whose obligation

18 it is to disclose them to us. Are we to receive these documents from the

19 Registry or from the Office of the Prosecutor? So perhaps the Prosecutor

20 could inform us of this.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Shin.

22 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, we'll have to look into this matter to see

23 whether they are materials that were made a part of Mr. Coo's report, in

24 which case they may be coming with the translation. I'm not sure exactly

25 what material my learned colleague is referring to, but we can certainly

Page 472

1 assist in trying to identify what the material is and where then perhaps

2 it should best or most efficiently come from.

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, coordinate your efforts with Defence counsel

4 in that regard.

5 I understand that the Ojdanic Defence -- yes, Mr. Visnjic. I

6 understand that the Ojdanic Defence has undertaken the translation of

7 certain documents, including the OHCR reports, and has offered to make

8 these available to other members of the Defence, and I think they are to

9 be commended for that effort. Mr. Livingston.

10 MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, Your Honour, just for the avoidance of

11 doubt, as Your Honour pointed out earlier, the previous order about

12 disclosure by the Registry related purely to Sainovic and Ojdanic. Just

13 for the avoidance of doubt, could Your Honour also make the same order in

14 relation to Mr. Milutinovic so that he also can benefit from those -- from

15 that disclosure. Because certainly, I think at the Rule 65 ter

16 conference, that was envisaged, but I haven't seen anything - I stress

17 anything at all - from the Registry. I'm sure there have been technical

18 reasons, but as I say for the avoidance of doubt, I don't think it would

19 do any harm if Your Honour were to make a formal order of joining up

20 Mr. Milutinovic's position with that of the other two.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, I will do that, and the Registry will be

22 instructed in coordination with the Defence team for Mr. Milutinovic to

23 ensure that the Defence obtains all public transcripts and exhibits in the

24 Kosovo phase of the Milosevic case.

25 Mr. Shin, I just wanted to raise with you the question of the

Page 473

1 impact of the surrender of Mr. Milutinovic on the pace of the preparation

2 for trial. Will it affect your preparation significantly, the addition of

3 another accused?

4 MR. SHIN: As Your Honour has already taken into consideration,

5 there will be some impact on the preparation for trial. The -- with the

6 new time line in place, we are otherwise in Your Honour's hands in terms

7 of the schedule.

8 JUDGE ROBINSON: What about the number of witnesses?

9 MR. SHIN: I'm sorry?

10 JUDGE ROBINSON: The number of witnesses.

11 MR. SHIN: With -- the issue of additional witnesses in relation

12 to the accused Milutinovic is under evaluation right now, and if we choose

13 to add some witnesses, we will make appropriate submissions in that

14 regard. In terms of the overall period of time for the case - though it

15 may be difficult to say at this stage - the only thing we can factor in is

16 additional time for cross-examination which may lengthen the case.

17 JUDGE ROBINSON: Your original estimate was between 100 to 120

18 witnesses and three to four months for your case.

19 MR. SHIN: I think at the time that we had set out those figures,

20 to put it in the context, as Your Honour will recall, that was a

21 preliminary estimate and based on necessarily the results of negotiations

22 or discussions with the various counsel for the accused relating to the

23 usage of 92 bis as well as prior transcripts and other means of expediting

24 the trial. We don't at this stage anticipate the total number of

25 witnesses to go much beyond that by virtue of the arriving of

Page 474

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Blank pages inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts. Pages 474 to 479.

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 480

1 Mr. Milutinovic.

2 JUDGE ROBINSON: I see. Thank you. May I ask any of the parties

3 whether there is any other matter that they wish to raise? Yes,

4 Mr. Visnjic.

5 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we wished to draw your

6 attention to some activities which the Defence will undertake in the

7 forthcoming period in order to plan better for the beginning of these

8 proceedings. According to the information we have received so far, the

9 initial disclosure by the Prosecution should be completed by the end of

10 April 2003. It is possible, however, that some of this disclosure will

11 take place at a later date, according to your order, and it's possible

12 that some legal issues will arise which we will submit before the

13 Chamber. Under Rule 70, disclosure was to take place by June 2003, and

14 there is also a motion we have already submitted, and upon disclosure, we

15 will perhaps submit a more specific motion. It's possible that in the

16 end, we will have certain requests for disclosure pertaining to certain

17 witnesses, and we have already made some requests of this nature to the

18 Prosecution.

19 On receipt of the complete material, although we are already

20 working on this as we receive each batch, we will have motions referring

21 to insiders, to fact witnesses, international witnesses, and so on,

22 witnesses from the army, the police, and civilians. And we will request

23 that we be permitted to contact these witnesses in accordance with the

24 established procedure.

25 On receipt of the final report from the Office of the Prosecutor,

Page 481

1 we shall engage investigators to check their allegations, and we will also

2 make submissions to the Chamber in relation to our visit to Kosovo and to

3 the field. We plan to complete our investigations of Kosovo within six

4 months of receipt of the complete material from the Prosecution, and this

5 we envisage as happening sometime in April 2004. We believe that in this

6 way, we will achieve the following goals: First of all, we shall be able

7 to reach certain agreements with the Prosecution as to certain agreed

8 facts. Secondly, we may be able to carry on the proceedings more

9 efficiently, and finally, we shall be able to make use of some evidence

10 already presented in the Milosevic case including parts of the Defence

11 from the Milosevic case, because so far we have heard only the Prosecution

12 evidence. We will, therefore, refer both to Prosecution and Defence

13 evidence in the Milosevic case.

14 Our position is that this case cannot follow certain precedents

15 such as the Brdjanin/Stakic case in this Tribunal because in this case,

16 Mr. Milosevic was a co-accused with our client and we therefore feel that

17 there is more similarity between these two cases than is the case in some

18 other proceedings where there were parallel proceedings such as, for

19 example, Brdjanin and Stakic or Kordic and Blaskic.

20 Therefore, it is our standpoint that the most efficient way of

21 moving forward would be to complete our investigation after the

22 presentation of Defence evidence and the judgement for the Kosovo part of

23 the Milosevic case. I wanted to submit this to the Chamber so that the

24 Chamber will be aware of our plans and our activities. Thank you.

25 JUDGE ROBINSON: I thank you, Mr. Visnjic, for alerting the

Page 482

1 Chamber to your organisational plans. And I encourage all the parties to

2 work together and to adopt all the strategies at their disposal to

3 expedite the proceedings.

4 Mr. Livingston.

5 MR. LIVINGSTON: Yes, Your Honour, just one more thing that I want

6 to raise myself, which is this: It goes back to Your Honour's order about

7 the provisional release motions, and Your Honour has helpfully set a date

8 for the hearing of those. Can I ask whether Your Honour would be minded

9 to make any directions about any evidence to be heard in the course of

10 those -- hearing those motions because certainly as far as my motion is

11 concerned, the Prosecution already indicated that they would wish to

12 cross-examine witnesses about the guarantees. I imagine the position will

13 probably be the same as regards the other accused as well, in which case

14 the Court might want to have regard to which witnesses will be called, how

15 many are going to be called, and make directions concerning that.

16 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Livingston. The Chamber will

17 consider that matter and will make any order that is necessary in that

18 regard.

19 Yes, Mr. Fila.

20 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] I beg your pardon, Your Honour, I had

21 no intention of taking part in the proceedings today, but there is just

22 one question that I would like you to instruct the Prosecution upon by the

23 next Status Conference, that is to say, the 13th of June. Once they

24 disclose all the material, could they tell us who they are going to call

25 as witnesses for the trial itself, and also which witnesses they would

Page 483

1 like to deal with in some other way because we get heaps of material, we

2 prepare ourselves for all of these persons, and we don't know specifically

3 who they are going to call.

4 Let me be very simple, who are the 100 to 120 witnesses that

5 Mr. Shin and his colleagues would like to call? I would like to find out

6 about that by the 13th of June, please. Also, who will be under Rule 92

7 bis and so on and so forth. You see, this really expedite matters because

8 then we would only carry out our own investigations in relation to these

9 persons that they are actually going to call as witnesses, and I think

10 this would really expedite matters. Thank you -- oh, yes.

11 As for what Mr. Livingston said, we would also be interested in

12 the following, excuse my language but it would be a waste of time for me

13 if the same people who have already spoken about the guarantees of

14 Yugoslavia or now Serbia would speak about them yet again. This only

15 incurs additional expenses. If the Prosecution is asking them to talk

16 about the same thing time and again for the umpteenth time, we're just

17 going to have an earache but we are not going to hear anything new. Let

18 us hear people who have something new to say, for example, something

19 related to one's state of health or whatever. But calling people yet

20 again to say that they're going to give guarantees and that these

21 guarantees will be valid, I really don't see why. But then of course,

22 that is really up to you, so I would simply like to support what was

23 already said. Thank you.

24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Fila. As a practical matter, I

25 think -- I know that the Defence would be facilitated if the Prosecutor

Page 484

1 could identify with precision at this stage the number of witnesses and

2 the witnesses that it intends to call, and also those in respect of which

3 92 bis would be invoked. But I don't know, Mr. Shin, whether you are able

4 to do that at this stage.

5 MR. SHIN: Your Honour, for a number of reasons, the Prosecution

6 would not be in a position to do that at this stage. And some guidance,

7 though, along the way may be the 65 ter filing. But apart from that, we

8 certainly couldn't say with any unmovable certainty at this stage.

9 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes, I think Mr. Fila understands the

10 difficulties in presenting a case. The same would apply to the Defence.

11 Mr. Livingston.

12 MR. LIVINGSTON: Your Honour, there's just one further point that

13 occurs to me out of what Mr. Shin said, it's this: It goes back to the

14 provisional release motions again, that if the Trial Chamber were to

15 consider granting provisional release to one or more of these accused and

16 one of the conditions happened to be not to interfere with witnesses, it

17 could be very important that Mr. Shin and his colleagues are able to

18 identify very clearly who the witnesses are that they intend to call to

19 avoid any sort of accidental interference with a witness who the accused

20 didn't know of or didn't realise was going to be a witness.

21 JUDGE ROBINSON: Well, that's a very tangential and incidental

22 connection, but Mr. Shin will no doubt take that into consideration.

23 May I now ask the accused. I'll start with Mr. Ojdanic. Whether

24 there is anything that you wish to raise relating to the conditions of

25 your detention or any matter relating to your health. Mr. Ojdanic.

Page 485

1 THE ACCUSED OJDANIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have no

2 questions. I have nothing special to raise. Thank you.

3 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you, Mr. Ojdanic.

4 Mr. Sainovic.

5 THE ACCUSED SAINOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I have nothing

6 to raise. Thank you.

7 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you. And Mr. Milutinovic.

8 THE ACCUSED MILUTINOVIC: Yes, I would like to tell something,

9 please, if it would be possible to have private session.

10 JUDGE ROBINSON: You would like a private session?

11 THE ACCUSED MILUTINOVIC: Yes.

12 JUDGE ROBINSON: Let's go into private session.

13 [Private session]

14 [redacted]

15 [redacted]

16 [redacted]

17 [redacted]

18 [redacted]

19 [redacted]

20 [redacted]

21 [redacted]

22 [redacted]

23 [redacted]

24 [redacted]

25 [redacted]

Page 486

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13 Pages 486-493 redacted private session

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 494

1 [redacted]

2 [redacted]

3 [redacted]

4 [redacted]

5 [redacted]

6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned

7 at 4.14 p.m.

8

9

10

11

12

13

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25