1 Friday, 7 March 2008

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The Accused Milutinovic not present]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, everyone. We shall continue with

7 the examination-in-chief of Mr. Bogosavljevic.

8 [The witness entered court]

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Bogosavljevic, good morning.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: The examination by Mr. Ivetic will continue. I

12 have to remind you that the solemn declaration to speak the truth which

13 you made at the beginning of your evidence continues to apply to your

14 evidence today.

15 Mr. Ivetic.

16 MR. IVETIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

17 WITNESS: MIOMIR BOGOSAVLJEVIC [Resumed]

18 [Witness answered through interpreter]

19 Examination by Mr. Ivetic: [Continued]

20 Q. Good morning again, Mr. Bogosavljevic. I'd like to try and pick

21 up where we left off yesterday. Yesterday, I believe you had been

22 talking about your own police officers, saying that their authority was

23 limited to the trains, and I have a question for you with respect to the

24 other organs of the interior, other police officers, from the various --

25 that had the responsibility for the various trains stations.

1 Did you ever see or did any of your police officers ever report

2 that those police at the train stations were involved in mistreating or

3 robbing people?

4 A. There were policemen at every train station from that area;

5 however, I have no knowledge of those policemen being involved in any

6 acts of forcing passengers to do anything.

7 MR. IVETIC: And for the record, can the interpreters hear me on

8 this microphone because I've been getting lots of feedback on this one so

9 I decided to change. All right.

10 Q. Sir, I'd like to ask you for a moment -- we already handled Pec,

11 I think, so that question is done.

12 I'd like to ask you about Kosovo Polje briefly. First of all, as

13 being someone who spent an awful lot of time in the town or city of

14 Kosovo Polje during 1998 and 1999, I'd like to ask you to comment upon

15 some testimony we had here in this case from other persons. We've had

16 some evidence from the one witness at least who said that his source came

17 from Bosnia that a paramilitary group, the Wolves of the Drina led by

18 Commander Karasek, were based in Kosovo Polje.

19 Can you agree with that assertion based upon the size of Kosovo

20 Polje and your knowledge of it?

21 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, I have a foundational objection. I

22 don't know that we've heard about the size of Kosovo Polje yet.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: That's correct were Mr. Hannis.

24 Mr. Ivetic.

25 MR. IVETIC: Well, that's correct. Why don't I do it this way.

1 Q. Sir, as someone who spent a lot of time in Kosovo Polje in 1998

2 and 1999, was -- size-wise, would you consider it likely or even possible

3 for strange faces to appear and not be noticed by the locals?

4 A. It wasn't possible. Kosovo Polje at the time had 4 or 5.000

5 inhabitants, and they all knew each other more or less. Every new unit

6 that would arrive was noticed and people would know where those people

7 would be stationed.

8 Q. All right, sir. Now I'd like to ask you, again, to comment on

9 the evidence that we've had from one witness who said that a paramilitary

10 group from Bosnia, the Wolves of the Drina led by a Commander Legenda

11 Karasek, were based in Kosovo Polje. Can you comment on that assertion

12 based on your knowledge of Kosovo Polje during the relevant time-period?

13 A. I have no knowledge of such a unit in the area of Kosovo Polje.

14 What I do know is that the SAJ had a base in Kosovo Polje.

15 Q. This may seem redundant, but we've also had evidence that a

16 paramilitary group belonging to Arkan was based in Kosovo Polje, and,

17 likewise, that the JSO was headquartered in Kosovo Polje. Based upon

18 your same knowledge of Kosovo Polje, would you comment on the likelihood

19 of that.

20 A. I can repeat that I only know of the SAJ having a base in Kosovo

21 Polje. Apart from VJ, there were no other units in the area of Kosovo

22 Polje.

23 Q. Thank you, sir. Now, we've also had evidence in this case that

24 at the train station in Pristina, from the 25th of March for a period of

25 three days, civilians were kept there and that the -- one witness, Emin

1 Kabashi, in his statement said that there were approximately twelve

2 trains daily for Macedonia. Do you have any knowledge with which you

3 could add to this -- to our understanding of the situation in the -- with

4 the trains departing from Pristina for Macedonia during this time-period?

5 A. At the beginning of the air-strikes, meaning the 24th of March,

6 and during the following four to five days, there was not a single train

7 that left Pristina or Kosovo Polje for Macedonia; therefore, that

8 witness's statement is incorrect.

9 Q. Sir, we had another witness, Nazlie Bala, in her sworn statement,

10 that's P2262 on the fourth page, she claimed that she saw trains with as

11 many as 30 passenger -- passenger cars or wagons, as I think they're

12 called in Serbian. Could you comment upon that based upon your knowledge

13 and work experience.

14 Is such a thing possible during the time-period 1999 when you

15 were commander of the Kosovo Polje station?

16 A. I state that not a single train or engine we had at our disposal

17 at the moment could pull as many as 30 cars. We had very poor vehicles

18 at our disposal at the time because of the terrain toward Djeneral

19 Jankovic and Macedonia. There is the Kacanik gorge there and it's very

20 steep. We didn't have a single engine that could pull 30 cars. In most

21 cases, it would be ten, 12, up to 15 cars at the most.

22 Q. Thank you. Sir, what could you tell us about NATO bombing of

23 railway lines either heading towards Serbia or towards the other

24 directions?

25 A. At the beginning of the air-strikes, I don't remember the exact

1 date, but a tunnel between Pristina and Kursumlija was bombed as well as

2 a railway bridge just past Zvecani in the direction of Kraljevo.

3 Therefore, our communication in that regard with Serbia was interrupted.

4 As for the direction towards Macedonia, there were no interruptions in

5 terms of railway traffic at all. However, as of the 24th and in the next

6 four to five days, there were not enough train captains at our disposal,

7 and that is why there were no trains leaving Kosovo Polje during that

8 period.

9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Bogosavljevic.

10 MR. IVETIC: Your Honours, I have completed my questioning for

11 this witness at this time.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Ivetic.

13 It may be we've had evidence about this before but I just don't

14 remember it. The railway line at Kosovo Polje is a station that the

15 train can go through obviously. Do trains from Pristina to Macedonia go

16 through Kosovo Polje?

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Why is Kosovo Polje the bigger station?

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Kosovo Polje is the starting point

20 for all directions.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: If you're travelling from Pristina to Macedonia,

22 do you have to change trains at Kosovo Polje?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

25 Mr. Cepic.

1 MR. CEPIC: Thank you, Your Honour, just a few questions.

2 Cross-examination by Mr. Cepic:

3 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Bogosavljevic, good morning. My name is

4 Djuro Cepic, attorney-at-law, appearing on behalf of General Lazarevic.

5 Can you tell me whether army members provided security to the train

6 stations in Pristina and Kosovo Polje, as well as any other train

7 stations in the area of Kosovo?

8 A. I did not notice any army members at any train station, save for

9 Djeneral Jankovic.

10 Q. Thank you. Were army members providing security in terms of

11 railway lines and directions within the area of Kosovo and Metohija?

12 A. No.

13 Q. Thank you, Mr. Bogosavljevic.

14 MR. CEPIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. I have no

15 further questions.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: You'll now be cross-examined by the Prosecutor,

17 Mr. Hannis.

18 Mr. Hannis.

19 MR. HANNIS: Thank you, Your Honour.

20 Cross-examination by Mr. Hannis:

21 Q. Good morning, Mr. Bogosavljevic. If I understood your testimony

22 correctly, from 1971 to 1986, you were working as a traffic policeman?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And then, from 1986 until 1992, you were an inspector doing

25 on-site investigations of traffic accidents, right?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What did you do in Serbia between 1999 and your retirement in

3 2005? What was your job there?

4 A. I was -- I was the head of the rolling stock at the gendarmerie

5 headquarters.

6 Q. Did you hold any rank or title at the time of your retirement?

7 A. My rank was that of a captain.

8 Q. If you don't mind, I'll call you captain because it's easier for

9 me than trying to pronounce your name, I have a hard time. Captain, you

10 said you were appointed commander of the police station for railway

11 security in Kosovo Polje in 1992. What were your exact duties? What did

12 you do every day when you went to your job? Can you give us a brief

13 description of that.

14 A. My daily duties were making up the roster and planning patrols

15 which were supposed to go on different trains.

16 Q. Your hours, what hours did you work? Did you work a day shift?

17 A. I don't know what period exactly you have in mind.

18 Q. Fair enough. I want to focus on late 1998 and the first half of

19 1999, including during the war, during the bombing.

20 A. My work hours were approximately 14, 15 hours in any 24-hour day.

21 Q. And were you working seven days a week?

22 A. I resided in Kosovo Polje. The station was nearby, and I would

23 walk to work every day.

24 Q. Okay. So you went -- you didn't have weekends off. You worked

25 seven days a week; is that right?

1 A. I would go there occasionally. Perhaps, during the course of any

2 weekend, I'd be there for an hour or two.

3 Q. Okay. You told us yesterday, I think, that although you were

4 supposed to have I think 66 people, you only had a total of 37 working

5 for you, is that right, in 1998 and 1999?

6 A. That is correct.

7 Q. And who did you report to? I think you told us you reported to

8 the SUP, but who -- was there a particular individual whose name you can

9 tell us that was your superior that you reported to?

10 A. I didn't say I reported to the SUP but to the head of the police

11 department within the Pristina SUP.

12 Q. And can you tell me his name?

13 A. Zarko Brakovic or his deputy.

14 Q. And the deputy's name?

15 A. Vesko Petrovic.

16 Q. You and your men and women wore, what, these standard blue police

17 uniform, or was there a standard uniform for the railway security?

18 A. Until May 1998, we wore standard blue uniforms.

19 Q. And from then until June 1999, what uniforms did you wear?

20 A. From that point on until June 1999, we wore blue camouflage

21 uniforms.

22 Q. And during that period from May 1998 to June 1999, what kind of

23 weapons, if any, did you and your people carry?

24 MR. IVETIC: Your Honour, I hate to interject, but so far every

25 single question is one that we've had in direct examination yesterday, I

1 believe.

2 MR. HANNIS: I know some of this was covered, but I don't know if

3 we were specific about time-periods.

4 JUDGE BONOMY: It was specific. The uniforms I remember clearly

5 being --

6 MR. IVETIC: And the prior, about the superiors he reported to,

7 that was all --

8 JUDGE BONOMY: And, certainly, the staff.

9 MR. IVETIC: Yeah.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: So --

11 MR. IVETIC: I have no problem with him asking it again; it's

12 just --

13 JUDGE BONOMY: It's his loss in the end of the day --

14 MR. IVETIC: I agree, Your Honour.

15 JUDGE BONOMY: -- Mr. Ivetic, but it's sometimes helpful just to

16 remind us that we need to concentrate on what really matters.

17 MR. HANNIS: It is my loss.

18 Q. Could you answer that question for me, though, between May 1998

19 and June 1999, what kind of weapons did you and your people carry?

20 A. Side-arms and rifles.

21 Q. Mr. Ivetic asked you yesterday if any entity called the MUP staff

22 or the staff of the ministry had any effect on your role or your work;

23 and you said, no, except for the police department and the Pristina SUP.

24 Did you ever hear of a body called the Ministry Staff for the

25 Suppression of Terrorism in Kosovo and Metohija? Did you ever hear that

1 term in 1998 or 1999?

2 A. Could you please repeat your question.

3 Q. Did you ever hear of the term the Ministry Staff for the

4 Suppression of Terrorism in Kosovo and Metohija? Did you ever hear of

5 that?

6 A. I heard of the MUP staff; however, I don't know of any staff for

7 the suppression of terrorism.

8 Q. You mentioned how you were appointed to your position as the

9 commander on the recommendation of the Pristina SUP chief. Who was the

10 chief that appointed you or recommended your appointment?

11 A. If I recall correctly, it was Bosko Petric.

12 Q. And --

13 A. Although, I'm not sure.

14 Q. Okay. The position you held, were there other similar jobs like

15 that in Kosovo, or was yours in Kosovo Polje the only position? Were

16 there other commanders of railway security offices in other locations in

17 Kosovo in 1998 and 1999?

18 A. There were none. Ours was the only station in Kosovo.

19 Q. And, by that, do I take it that you and your 37 people were the

20 entire contingent of the police responsible for railway security on the

21 trains in movement in Kosovo in 1998 and 1999; is that right?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. And those 37 police officers, what hours did they work? Did they

24 work eight-hour shifts or 12-hour shifts and how many days a week in 1998

25 and 1999?

1 A. A patrol would board the train and stay with it until its

2 destination. The working hours depended on the schedule. On occasion,

3 it could have been as short as four hours, and then the same patrol could

4 escort another train for, say, another six hours. So ten to 12 hours a

5 day, a single patrol would cover several trains moving in different

6 directions.

7 Q. And how many days a week would your people work without having a

8 day off? Did they work seven days a week or did they have days off?

9 A. They had one day a week off.

10 Q. Okay. And how many -- during an average weekday, how many trains

11 would be running in Kosovo? You told us about the different lines that

12 you serviced, but how many trains on average would go a day, if you know?

13 A. Depending on the day, on average, there were ten to 12 trains.

14 Q. Okay. And your typical patrol would be two persons per train,

15 right?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Thank you. You mentioned - I don't want you to mention the names

18 now - but you mentioned in private session three people that were working

19 for you. Did those people work for you throughout the war? Did they

20 stay the whole time? I don't remember if you told us.

21 A. They stayed until some point towards the middle of the war.

22 Q. And then what happened? Did they leave?

23 A. Since pressure was exerted against their families, they left the

24 service and they left Kosovo and Metohija together with their families.

25 Q. What were their specific jobs? Were those three also regular

1 police people, or did they have some other kind of job?

2 A. Yes. They were also policemen and they also went out on patrols

3 together with the other policemen.

4 Q. Okay. For somebody travelling from Pristina to Djeneral

5 Jankovic, we've had some evidence about people boarding the train in

6 Pristina. I think Judge Bonomy just asked you if the person boarding in

7 Pristina then would have to change in Kosovo Polje, and your answer was

8 yes. Was that true during the war as well?

9 A. No. It only applied to regular traffic before the war.

10 Q. Okay. And, during the war, we've had evidence about a number of

11 trains going from Pristina to Djeneral Jankovic, and I believe the

12 evidence was that they went from Pristina straight to Djeneral Jankovic

13 without stopping in Kosovo Polje on -- sometimes without stopping in

14 Urosevac. Were you aware of that?

15 A. I am aware of the fact that there were a few trains that were

16 going from Pristina to Djeneral Jankovic, but I claim that they all had

17 to stop in Kosovo Polje and Urosevac at the railway stations there.

18 Q. Well, you wouldn't be in a position to know whether or not they

19 stopped in Urosevac, right, because you weren't there? And I'm talking

20 particularly about the time-period between the 29th of March and the

21 15th of April. You were never in Urosevac during that time-period to see

22 whether the trains stopped there, correct?

23 A. I was not in Urosevac, but I was on the train a few times.

24 Q. And can you tell us when you were on the train between the

25 29th of March and the 15th of April, 1999? First of all, can you tell us

1 how many times?

2 A. Well, twice, but I can't remember the date.

3 Q. And can you remember anything else about those two times. Was it

4 just a regular train, or was it a special train with additional cars?

5 Who was travelling? Anything you can tell us about those two occasions?

6 A. These were regular trains with about ten cars full of passengers,

7 predominantly Albanians.

8 Q. And, on those two occasions, did you ride to the end of the line

9 in Djeneral Jankovic?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. In addition to yourself and the passengers, were there other

12 police or soldiers on the train?

13 A. My police patrol was there and there were the passengers.

14 Q. And no soldiers?

15 A. No.

16 Q. And you didn't see what happened to the passengers after they got

17 off the train in Djeneral Jankovic? Did you see them walking along the

18 railroad track toward the border?

19 A. I saw them walking down the railroad track towards the border.

20 Q. And did you see any police or VJ directing them in that

21 direction?

22 A. I saw members of the Army of Yugoslavia, but I don't know whether

23 they were directing them or what they were saying to them.

24 Q. Now, we have evidence from --

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Before you move on.

1 MR. HANNIS: Yeah.

2 JUDGE BONOMY: I've obviously misunderstood yesterday. Did you

3 always have to get off the train at Djeneral Jankovic?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The police would usually get off

5 the train.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: I understand that, but why did the passengers get

7 off? Did they have to walk through the border and then be picked up

8 again by the train or what?

9 MR. HANNIS: [Microphone not activated]

10 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for Mr. Hannis, please.

11 MR. HANNIS: My questions were limited to 29th of March to the

12 15th of April, and he was talking about two occasions when he travelled

13 on the train.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Right. So were there no trains at that time going

15 to Macedonia? Sorry, just forget that question. I'll let Mr. Hannis

16 continue about this, but I'm unclear about the circumstances prevailing

17 now.

18 MR. HANNIS: Thank you.

19 Q. We've had evidence from a witness who worked at the train station

20 in Urosevac, that between the beginning of the bombing, on the 24th of

21 March, for about four or five days no trains ran, and I think that's what

22 you said earlier. That's correct, isn't it, that the train traffic

23 stopped for a few days at the beginning of the bombing, right?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. And that witness also told us that, before the bombing had

1 started, that the general schedule for trains travelling from Kosovo

2 Polje to the Macedonian border ran three times a day in both directions.

3 Three trains would come south heading to Macedonia and three trains would

4 be going north back to Kosovo Polje, so six trains passing through

5 Urosevac on a day.

6 Is that consistent with your knowledge and information about the

7 train schedules in 1999 before the bombing started?

8 A. I think there were four trains in one direction and four in the

9 other.

10 Q. We also heard evidence that when the trains started running

11 again, after the 29th of March, there were a few days at the very end of

12 March and the beginning of April in which there were more than the usual

13 number of trains, and those trains carried more than the usual number of

14 cars. Were you aware of that? Did you see that?

15 A. I know that there were these special trains, as railway people

16 call them, one or two a day.

17 Q. Did you have enough staff to put people on those additional

18 trains that were running then?

19 A. I had enough staff because the lines towards Pec and Kursumlija

20 had been stopped. No trains ran on account of the fact that the railroad

21 had been damaged.

22 Q. And during that time, between the 29th of March and the 15th of

23 April, did you have your people put on each and every train going south

24 to the Macedonian border, do you recall?

25 A. In most cases, my people were on the train.

1 Q. And did you see or did your people tell you that there were

2 thousands of people on these trains during that two-week period going

3 from Pristina to the Macedonian border, standing room only in those

4 trains, right?

5 A. I cannot agree with that statement, that there were thousands

6 there. One car can have 80 passengers sitting there an additional 20 or

7 30 can be standing there. Ten cars would take it to a thousand people on

8 one train, not more.

9 Q. I think you said, in an answer earlier today, that an engine

10 might carry up to 12 or 15 cars, right?

11 A. That's right, but I didn't say that every engine carried 12 to 15

12 cars.

13 Q. And isn't it the practice that sometimes, in the railway

14 business, an extra engine will be coupled to another one so that two

15 engines can pull additional cars? Was that ever done?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Well, you mean as far as you know. You didn't see each and every

18 train that went through your station, right?

19 A. But I managed to see almost all of them off from Kosovo Polje or

20 to meet them there when they would come back to the station.

21 Q. You told us about filing urgent daily and periodic reports to the

22 police department in the Pristina SUP. Do you have any of those

23 documents?

24 A. I don't.

25 Q. What kind of information would go in your daily report?

1 A. Information about the possible forcible stopping of trains,

2 stalling of trains, other breakdowns of law and order.

3 Q. Would you note when special trains were passing through or when

4 trains with additional cars passed through, or was that information that

5 did not go into your reports?

6 A. No, because it is the railway administration that decides on

7 special trains and additional cars, whether they will add more or less.

8 Q. I understand that from your answers yesterday, but that's not

9 something that you would take note of in your report, that's not the kind

10 of information that you would be telling your boss about, right?

11 A. That's right.

12 Q. And during this two-week-plus time-period, between the 29th of

13 March and the 15th of April, you didn't notice any of those trains

14 heading south containing additional police, other than your security

15 police, or soldiers riding along with those passengers who were heading

16 toward Macedonia; is that right?

17 A. That's right, but my patrols were reinforced. There were days

18 when four policemen, even up to six, would go out when there were 12 to

19 15 cars on a particular train.

20 Q. Okay. You told us that at the beginning of the NATO bombing, you

21 relocated from your police station in one of the buildings belonging to

22 the railway company to a private home in Kosovo Polje. Whose private

23 home did you move to? Was that one that belonged to a fellow employee?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Was that an abandoned Kosovo Albanian home?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. And who located there, just you or all 37 of you? Who stayed

3 there?

4 A. I was there with ten of my people.

5 Q. I would like to show you for just a moment Exhibit P3119. This

6 is a map that will come up on your screen in just a minute, and it shows

7 an area between Pristina and Urosevac. I want to ask you about the

8 railway lines and where you were located.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Bogosavljevic, the ten people you referred to,

10 were they administrative workers or were they policemen?

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] There was one administrative worker

12 and the rest were policemen.

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Hannis.

14 MR. HANNIS:

15 Q. Do you have the map yet on your screen?

16 MR. HANNIS: I have a problem. I don't have it on mine. I don't

17 know if Your Honours have it.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: [Microphone not activated]

19 MR. HANNIS: Looks like the witness does.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

21 MR. HANNIS:

22 Q. While we're waiting for the Judges to see it, can you tell me

23 does that generally show accurately where the railroad line ran between

24 Pristina, Kosovo Polje, and Urosevac?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. And I see that between Kosovo Polje and Ferizaj, the train also

2 passes through Lipljan. Was there a train station there?

3 A. Yes.

4 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Do you have a hard copy of this? Can we have it

6 on the ELMO, then.

7 MR. HANNIS: I do, Your Honour.

8 Q. Sorry, captain, we're going to put this on the ELMO because

9 lawyers on the other side aren't able to see it, nor are the Judges.

10 MR. HANNIS: If we could go up just a little bit to try and --

11 well, that will do for now.

12 Q. On this map, can you indicate for us approximately where your

13 offices were located before the bombing started? And there's a pen you

14 can use to draw a circle.

15 A. [Marks]

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Can you direct the witness, Mr. Hannis.

17 MR. HANNIS: Yes, I'm sorry.

18 Q. Captain, could you -- on this map, are you able to draw a circle

19 or an "X" indicating approximately where your offices were located in

20 Kosovo Polje before the coming started?

21 JUDGE BONOMY: For everyone to see it, it will have to be drawn

22 on the map on the ELMO, Mr. Hannis.

23 MR. HANNIS: Okay.

24 Q. Well, if you can just then point on the map that's on the ELMO to

25 your left, sir. With the help of the usher standing next to you, if you

1 could just use a pointer to indicate on that map.

2 A. [Marks]

3 Q. Okay. I see you've indicated a mark between the "F" in Fushe

4 Kosove and Kosovo Polje. Thank you.

5 And when you moved after the bombing started, can you indicate

6 that second location?

7 A. [Marks]

8 Q. Okay. I see you put a second mark just to the right of that

9 between "U" in Fushe and the "O" in Kosovo below it. Thank you.

10 MR. HANNIS: Your Honour, I don't know how we can handle that. I

11 don't know if I can give that an IC number.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Yeah, I think so.

13 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

14 JUDGE BONOMY: It can be given an IC number and then scanned

15 later, Mr. Hannis.

16 MR. HANNIS: Okay. Thank you. If we may do that.

17 THE REGISTRAR: That will be IC190, Your Honours.

18 MR. HANNIS: Thank you. Okay. I don't need anything further

19 from that at the moment, unless Your Honours have a question.

20 Q. You told us, yesterday, sir, that regarding any complaints about

21 theft from civilians on the trains that: "During 1999, I can state that

22 not a single crime was reported to me or any of my policemen."

23 How does that compare with the number of crimes reported to you

24 in 1998? Do you recall getting any crime reports in 1998?

25 A. Well, I don't remember the actual figure. There probably was

1 some theft but very little.

2 Q. Would it have been more than ten?

3 A. No. It's usually petty theft, pick-pocketing.

4 Q. Okay. You told us that as far as the number of trains and

5 whether special trains will run, et cetera, it's something that falls

6 under the railway administration. What ministry is the railway

7 administration under, do you know?

8 A. The railways of Serbia.

9 Q. And during a state of war, do you know what happens then under

10 the law. Does -- do the decisions about running the railroad continue to

11 fall under the railway administration, or does it go to the army or some

12 other body, if you know?

13 A. As far as I know, that was decided by the railway administration

14 only.

15 Q. What is the extent of your knowledge about that? Did someone

16 tell you that, did you see it written down somewhere, or are you just

17 guessing?

18 A. Well, I did not go into this particular subject matter, but I

19 know that it wasn't the police that could decide about that, I assume, or

20 the army for that matter.

21 Q. Yesterday --

22 A. Just like they couldn't interfere in our affairs.

23 Q. Yesterday, you said, "Concerning the arrival," and this is page

24 29 from yesterday.

25 "Concerning the arrivals of special or previously not scheduled

1 trains to Kosovo Polje, that's something I have never been advised of."

2 Does that mean you wouldn't receive advanced notice when special

3 trains were going to be running?

4 A. I would receive notice about special trains so that I could

5 prepare a patrol for such a train.

6 Q. And how far in advance would you typically receive such notice?

7 A. Usually, today for a train, that would be running tomorrow.

8 Q. During the time-period between 29 March and 15 April, we have

9 evidence from a document and from a witness named Bajram Bucaliu, who

10 worked in Urosevac, that there were a number of special trains running

11 during that time-period. Did you receive advanced notice for all those

12 special trains, do you recall?

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic.

14 MR. IVETIC: Your Honour, unless he's going to show the document,

15 I don't know how any witness can answer whether they received advanced

16 notice for all those special trains without knowing which those are and

17 the numbers, the dates, et cetera. I mean, it's a very unfair question.

18 MR. HANNIS: Well, I'll rephrase the question.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes, please. Thank you.

20 MR. HANNIS:

21 Q. On the list of exhibits that I was provided that might be used

22 with you was Exhibit P1331, which is the log-book from the Urosevac train

23 station. Were you shown that document during your preparation to testify

24 here?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. And do you recall looking at entries for the dates in late March

2 and the first half of April, 1999?

3 A. Well, there were a lot of entries, so I don't know whether I saw

4 those in particular and whether I would be able to comment on it.

5 Q. Okay. Do you recall seeing on a few of those days during that

6 time-period that there were a larger number of trains than normal running

7 on the 31st of March, the 1st and 2nd of April? Do you recall that?

8 A. I think there were two or three trains in addition.

9 Q. But you, yourself, didn't keep any written records at the time of

10 the number of special trains that ran during that time-period, did you?

11 That wasn't your job?

12 A. I made a roster of service for my men; so in that roster, it was

13 planned. The movement of these extra trains was also planned.

14 Q. You don't have a copy of those rosters that you created during

15 that time-period, do you?

16 A. No, I don't.

17 Q. Thank you. You told us about a problem on the route between

18 Kosovo Polje and Pec; and at page 31, line 4 yesterday you said: "As of

19 May, the train moved without police escort."

20 Were you referring to May 1998 when your police stopped

21 travelling on the Pec-Kosovo Polje route?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Did anyone warn passengers travelling on that route that there

24 was no longer going to be a police escort?

25 A. From Kosovo Polje towards Pec, at that time, there were no

1 passengers; but on the stops along the road - and that's a distance of

2 some 80 kilometres - on stops along the way, passengers came in and

3 stepped off. Those places along the way are mostly populated by

4 Albanians, so the train practically served only them.

5 Q. You mentioned today that Kosovo Polje had about 4 or 5.000

6 inhabitants and they all knew each other more or less, and every new unit

7 that would arrive was noticed and people would know where those people

8 would be stationed.

9 So can you tell me, between 1st of January, 1999 and April of

10 1999, how many new units arrived in Kosovo Polje?

11 A. I don't know that. I suppose there were no other units apart

12 from the SAJ.

13 Q. And where was the SAJ unit located, if you know?

14 A. In the centre of Kosovo Polje at the crossroads between Pristina

15 and Pec.

16 Q. Do you know who the commander was?

17 A. I don't.

18 Q. And do you know approximately when they first came there?

19 A. I can't remember exactly.

20 Q. When you looked at the train log from Urosevac, Exhibit P1331,

21 were you able to understand the entries? The reason I asked that

22 question is that a witness explained to us that the numbers listed for

23 the trains helped identify in which direction they were travelling. Were

24 you familiar with that?

25 A. I know, I know. You mean directions of movement.

1 Q. Correct.

2 MR. HANNIS: I guess if we could just take one quick look at a

3 page from that exhibit, it's P1331, and I just want to put up the B/C/S,

4 Your Honour. I think, for purposes of my question, that's all we need.

5 It would be, I believe, it's e-court page number 114.

6 Q. You see the cover of that document. Is that the one you looked

7 at? And now we're at a page where I think the first three entries at the

8 top of the page relate to the 1st of April.

9 I don't know if you can read that, but can you see, in the very

10 top left, that appears to be a 01.04, which the witness before told us

11 was the 1st of April. Would you agree with me about that?

12 A. I can see it's written, the 1st of April.

13 Q. And then, so the fourth entry appears to be for the 2nd of April,

14 and I think we -- you can agree with me by looking at the time in column

15 number 5 and 6, which the prior witness explained to us is the time that

16 the train left Urosevac station.

17 You'll see that, in item number 3, the hour was 2325, which I

18 take to mean it was 11.25, just before midnight, on the 1st; and this

19 item number 4 is 225, which I take to mean 2.25 in the morning on April

20 2nd.

21 Would you agree with that, or have any reason to disagree?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. He also explained to us that the southbound trains from Urosevac

24 were identified with an odd number; whereas, those going northbound had

25 an even number. Were you aware of that?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. So by my count on this page for April 2nd, starting at 2.25 in

3 the morning, and going to the bottom of the page where we see an entry

4 for 2215 hours, the number of odd-numbered or southbound-going trains I

5 see are seven. Do you come up with that same number?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Do you recall seven trains heading toward the Macedonian border

8 on one day?

9 A. Well, probably, yes, because on the regular service, there were

10 four trains.

11 Q. And he also explained to us that in column 3, 3:00 and 4:00 is

12 supposed to be the time that the train arrived in the Urosevac station,

13 but you'll see several of these entries just have an arrow or a diagonal

14 mark going from the lower left to the upper right-hand corner of those

15 two blocks. He explained that meant that the train didn't stop, that it

16 passed directly through the station.

17 Were you aware that during this time-period some of those trains

18 continued straight on to the border, apparently without stopping in

19 Urosevac?

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic.

21 MR. IVETIC: Well, Your Honour, I believe earlier or Mr. Hannis

22 himself objected that this witness would not have knowledge of Urosevac,

23 except for the time that the periods --

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic, all we're doing is looking at the

25 interpretation of the document at the moment.

1 Please continue, Mr. Hannis.

2 MR. HANNIS:

3 Q. Do you need me to repeat that question, sir?

4 A. I'm not familiar with this document of theirs, why the time of

5 stopping is not written, whether this line here is correct, meaning that

6 the train did not stop, because every train had to be stopped at these

7 stations.

8 Q. Well, I suggest to you that the reason is that this was during

9 the early weeks of the war and that there were large numbers of Kosovo

10 Albanians being transported to the border so that they could leave the

11 country, and there was no need to stop, right?

12 A. Well, it was necessary for people to board the train in Urosevac,

13 if they were waiting there.

14 Q. But some witnesses have told us some of these trains travelling

15 from Pristina were already jam-packed, and they were crowded in like

16 sardines. Didn't you see that in Kosovo Polje at the end of March and

17 the beginning of April 1999?

18 A. Well, they could tell any story they like, but that they were

19 hanging out the windows and out the doors and that they were unable to

20 breathe is not correct, is not true.

21 Q. Well, I didn't say they said that. Did you hear that somewhere

22 else?

23 A. I read some statements where that is written.

24 MR. HANNIS: Thank you, Your Honours. I have no further

25 questions for the witness.

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Hannis.

2 Mr. Ivetic, re-examination.

3 MR. IVETIC: Yes, it will be very brief, Your Honour.

4 While we have this document on the screen, since Mr. Hannis was

5 able to use this and interpret this document, I would like the full

6 picture of the situation.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: He was cross-examining the witness.

8 MR. IVETIC: I know.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: So please bear in mind that the nature of the

10 questions will be different depending on the role that the examiner is

11 playing.

12 MR. IVETIC: Correct. I understand that as well, Your Honour.

13 And, actually, I don't think I even need to ask the witness this

14 question; but at page 114 of the B/C/S, for the entry of the 2nd of April

15 on the first and second lines, if those lines -- pardon me, the column

16 that has the lines also shows lines for trains going in the opposite

17 direction, going away from the border. So, whatever those lines mean,

18 I'm not going to suggest at this point in time, but I'm just pointing out

19 that Mr. Hannis selectively chose the half story.

20 Q. Now, a question that I do have --

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Ivetic, that sort of comment in this context

22 simply runs the risk of undermining the strength of any answer the

23 witness might give.

24 MR. IVETIC: But I didn't does the witness about that.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: All I'm saying to you is that you run that risk,

1 and it's not the appropriate stage for making these submissions anyway.

2 It can be made at the right time. Now, please ask questions. I thought

3 by now I wouldn't have to direct you as to what your job was.

4 Re-examination by Mr. Ivetic:

5 MR. IVETIC:

6 Q. Mr. Bogosavljevic, we had some discussion regarding the railway

7 service and the conductors. Could you tell me based upon your knowledge

8 and information what types of uniforms the employees of the railway

9 service utilised in 1999?

10 A. Blue uniforms, darker blue.

11 Q. Thank you, Mr. Bogosavljevic for your time and your testimony.

12 MR. IVETIC: I have no more re-direct, Your Honours.

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Ivetic.

14 [Trial Chamber confers]

15 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Bogosavljevic, that completes your evidence.

16 Thank you for coming to give evidence to the Tribunal and to assist us.

17 You're now free to leave the courtroom with the usher.

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19 [The witness withdrew]

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

21 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour, our next witness is Mr. Bozidar

22 Filic.

23 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

24 MR. STAMP: Your Honours, if I could with your leave indicate

25 that appearing -- well, present with me in court is Mr. Michael Edwards,

1 who will be assisting and has assisted very much in the preparation of

2 this witness.

3 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you, Mr. Stamp.

4 [The witness entered court]

5 JUDGE BONOMY: Good morning, Mr. Filic.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Would you please make the solemn declaration to

8 speak the truth by reading aloud the document that the usher will give

9 you.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will

11 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you. Please be seated.

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: You will now be examined by Mr. Lukic.

15 Mr. Lukic.

16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

17 WITNESS: BOZIDAR FILIC

18 [Witness answered through interpreter]

19 Examination by Mr. Lukic:

20 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Filic.

21 A. Good morning.

22 Q. Perhaps you should adjust your headset, lest it falls off.

23 A. Thank you.

24 MR. LUKIC: Can we lower the ELMO so I can see the witness,

25 please. Can we lower the ELMO so I can see the witness.

1 Q. [Interpretation] Can we begin?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. To begin with, please introduce yourself briefly?

4 A. My name is Bozidar Filic. I was born on the 10th of August,

5 1954, in Kriljevo village, Kosovska Kamenica municipality, autonomous

6 province Kosovo and Metohija, father's name Trajko, mother's name Savka.

7 I'm married with three children, I currently live in Belgrade as a

8 retired MUP officer, and my status is that of a temporarily displaced

9 person from Kosovo.

10 Q. What about your work history?

11 A. After primary school, I completed the secondary school of

12 internal affairs in Sremska Kamenica. In 1973, after working as a

13 policeman, for a short while, I completed the academy of ground forces.

14 From 1978 to 1982, I worked as deputy commanding officer of the

15 police station in Prizren, when I was transferred in 1982 to the SUP of

16 the province, where I worked as an inspector in the police

17 administration.

18 From end 1982 until 1986, I was deputy commander of the police

19 detachment of the provincial secretariat. Until 1988, I was chief

20 commander of the police detachment; and after that, I worked in the

21 centre of security of the SUP of Pristina.

22 After that, I worked for a while in the staff of the police; and

23 when the PJP was established in 1994, I was commander of the police

24 detachment which was made up from secretariats from Kosovo -- sorry, that

25 was until 1994.

1 Then I was named chief of the SUP of Pristina, deputy chief of

2 the SUP of Pristina, until 15 April 1990, when I was appointed chief of

3 the Urosevac SUP, and I stayed in that position until 2006.

4 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a moment, that's not -- Ah, yes, it is the

5 information I have. Thank you.

6 MR. STAMP: Well, date at line 18 --

7 MR. LUKIC: I just wanted to clarify that. Thank you.

8 Q. [Interpretation] It's on the record that you were deputy chief of

9 Pristina SUP until the 15th of April, 1990 --

10 A. It's 1999.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Just one moment, Mr. Lukic.

12 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Filic, one of the jobs you said you held was,

14 if I can find it again, yes, deputy commander of the police detachment of

15 the provincial secretariat. What is the provincial secretariat?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That means the secretariat of the

17 province. It was at the time a state authority, the secretariat of

18 interior of the province.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: And did that exist in 1998 and 1999?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no, Mr. President.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: That's fine. Thank you.

22 Mr. Lukic.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

24 Q. You said that starting from 15 April 1999, you were chief of

25 Pristina SUP and you were -- stayed there until 2006?

1 A. No, it was Urosevac SUP.

2 Q. And you stayed there until you retired?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Where were your offices after the 20th of June, 1999?

5 A. After we withdrew from Kosovo and Metohija, SUP Urosevac was

6 located in Leskovac.

7 Q. You told us - and Judge Bonomy also wanted to know about

8 this - that you worked in the provincial SUP?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Tell us, at that time, who were the leading people of the

11 provincial SUP?

12 A. At that time, the provincial SUP had within its framework the

13 office of the secretary of that provincial secretariat, deputy secretary,

14 under-secretary for public security, and under-secretary for state

15 security, and a certain number of assistant secretaries. Also, in

16 various lines of work, there were several administrations. Shall I name

17 them?

18 Q. Please.

19 A. Administration for police affairs and traffic safety;

20 administration of crime police; administration for the border and foreign

21 nationals, with a certain number of police units for border crossings,

22 meaning Vrbnica and Cafa Prusit and the one at the airport;

23 administration for communications; administration for information and

24 analysis; administration for common affairs; administration for fire

25 brigade; and the administration for the duty service of the secretariat.

1 Q. What about the detachment?

2 A. There was a police detachment as an organizational unit of the

3 SUP with three units: The special unit for anti-terrorist actions, the

4 unit for the security of installations and persons, and the unit for

5 escorting trains.

6 Q. How many personnel did you have?

7 A. Within this structure, there were about 1.000 employees.

8 Q. Thank you, Mr. Filic. I think it's time for the break?

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Filic, we have to break at this stage as we do

10 each day. Could you please leave the courtroom with the usher while we

11 have the break and we'll see you in 20 minutes.

12 [The witness stands down]

13 JUDGE BONOMY: We shall resume at ten minutes to 11.00.

14 --- Recess taken at 10.31 a.m.

15 --- On resuming at 10.50 a.m.

16 [The witness takes the stand]

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

19 Q. You told us who the head of the provincial SUP was and you

20 described its composition and administrations. Did the provincial SUP

21 also comprise the secretariat of internal affairs in the field?

22 A. Yes, however, that was towards the end of its existence. In

23 1997/1998 there was a reorganization.

24 Q. That's where the security centres were introduced?

25 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: 1988.

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's when the centres were

2 created from the then-secretariats of internal affairs which were under

3 the competence of municipalities. Once the security centres were

4 established, they were directly -- they came directly under the

5 provincial SUP in Pristina.

6 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

7 Q. How many centres were there?

8 A. Seven security centres.

9 Q. Does that correspond to the SUPs as they existed in 1999?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. How many people were there in the field in those centres?

12 A. I can't recall exactly, but more or less the same number as it is

13 nowadays, the number of policemen in the current secretariats.

14 Q. Around 10.000?

15 A. More or less.

16 THE INTERPRETER: Could you please observe a pause between

17 questions and answers. Thank you.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. At that time, was the provincial SUP issuing orders to the

20 security centres?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did the security centres which are equivalent to the current SUPs

23 oblige to report to the provincial SUP?

24 A. They were supposed to report to them the way they nowadays report

25 to the ministry.

1 Q. Was the provincial SUP approving work-plans of the centres --

2 security centres in the field?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Was the provincial SUP monitoring the work of the SUPs in Kosovo

5 and Metohija along professional lines?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. In 1999, was the Ministry of Internal Affairs in Belgrade busy

8 doing everything we've been mentioning so far?

9 A. Yes.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we would kindly ask to

11 go briefly into private session in order to protect the identity of some

12 Albanians, so that their names not be known.

13 JUDGE BONOMY: What is the basis for saying they may be at risk?

14 MR. LUKIC: If I say so, it could be identified of why I'm asking

15 this.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Is it because of where they now are?

17 MR. LUKIC: They mostly live in Kosovo.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Stamp, what's your position on this?

19 MR. STAMP: I'm not sure if a basis has been laid, but I think

20 counsel is saying there is some risk so I have no objection.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, in the past, we've been able to unravel this

22 should it be inappropriate, so we'll go into private session for -- out

23 of an abundance of caution.

24 [Private session]

25 (redacted)

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9

10

11 Pages 23895-23896 redacted. Private session

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23

24

25

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 [Open session]

15 THE REGISTRAR: We are in open session, Your Honours.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

17 MR. LUKIC: Thank you.

18 Q. [Interpretation] So, Mr. Filic, did anyone on the Serbian side

19 force those Albanians to leave the service?

20 A. No, no one did. They were even trying to persuade them to stay

21 with the secretariat and the security centre.

22 Q. What was your position at the time?

23 A. I was chief of the police sector, as it was called then, within

24 the security centre in Pristina. I was in charge of a group of police

25 inspectors within that sector. We oversaw the work of the police in the

1 entire security centre, which is something that falls within the domain

2 of the current police chief or the chief of the police department.

3 Q. Did you mention that you were a member of a commission which

4 dealt with this issue?

5 A. When some Albanian superiors decided to leave the then-provincial

6 SUP, the under-secretary for personnel, assistant secretary for

7 personnel, rather, Slobodan Mijovic, established a commission so that

8 those people could leave the service according to the procedure. I was a

9 member of that commission which also comprised Savo Majstorovic,

10 inspector, as well as a chief of the then-department of the SUP,

11 Mr. Kurtesi, who is Gorani.

12 We needed to discharge Seremet Mehmeti who was the then-chief of

13 the police administration within the provincial SUP; and Mr. Trstena, who

14 was head of one of the departments within the police service; and Hajnura

15 Tutava [phoen], who was an inspector with the police administration.

16 We acted accordingly to -- according to the decision of the

17 assistant minister. We tried to talk to them about their reasons for

18 leaving, and they said we had already explained that, there is no

19 explaining it further. We discharged them and there were no objections

20 to the procedure implemented by the commission, save for Mr. Trstena who

21 asked that there should be an Albanian in the commission, since

22 Mr. Bujupi, or rather, Mr. Kurtesi was a Gorani.

23 I advised Under-Secretary Mijovic of that. We tried to find an

24 Albanian to participate in the work of the commission, but they wouldn't.

25 Most of them said, "Well, I wasn't the one who employed him, I'm not

1 going to be one of those discharges him." I passed that information to

2 the assistant secretary, and that was the end of it.

3 Q. Thank you. Did you take in new policemen?

4 A. Given that a great many policemen left the force, we needed to

5 take on new people, and we also needed to temporarily dispatch certain

6 police forces from Serbia proper. Since the security situation was

7 ever-changing and it was unstable, we couldn't preserve the security

8 situation with the number of people we were left with.

9 Q. Therefore, you had tenders for new people to be taken on board?

10 A. The ministry did.

11 Q. Thank you. Were the same conditions provided for employment to

12 both Serbs and Albanians?

13 A. Yes, absolutely so.

14 Q. The policemen who had previously left the service, could they

15 also apply?

16 A. They could; but as far as I know, none of them tried to.

17 Q. And how long did the training of those new policemen last?

18 A. It was organized in Vucitrn, Novi Sad, and Belgrade. It lasted

19 for a year with six months of theoretical curriculum and six months of

20 practical work.

21 Q. What was the relationship between the ethnic communities in

22 Kosovo in 1998?

23 A. The inter-ethnic relations in Kosovo in 1998, in my assessment

24 and the assessment of the service, was very complicated. The leaders of

25 the Albanian people, by using gatherings of different types, were trying

1 to organize and line up their population. I wanted to mention the issue

2 of the infamous poisoning of members of a single ethnic community in

3 Vucitrn --

4 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: In Podujevo

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- which caused great resentment

6 among the Albanians in Kosovo. There was also another gathering, as they

7 called it, the burial of violence which gathered tens of thousands of

8 Albanians. They were moving along the streets of Pristina with an empty

9 coffin, taking the coffin to a Muslim cemetery, symbolically trying to

10 bury the Serbian violence against their population. This also caused a

11 wave of moving out and away from the region among many Albanians.

12 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

13 Q. You said that there was a poisoning of members of a single ethnic

14 group?

15 A. In elementary school in Podujevo, allegedly, there was a case of

16 poisoning of only Albanian children, whereas, in fact, in the same class,

17 there were children of other ethnicities as well. They made a scene,

18 basically. There were paramedics and a lot of attention. It wasn't

19 possible for Albanian children to be poisoned alone without Serbian and R

20 omani children suffering the same fate.

21 Q. Were there any terrorist attacks in -- in the 1990s, before 1998,

22 in the area of the Pristina SUP?

23 A. There were terrorist attacks, especially in the area of Podujevo

24 and Glogovac OUPs. A number, a great number of terrorist attacks was

25 carried out, a number of our employees were killed. In Podujevo, for

1 example, an inspector was killed. He was from the crime police, his name

2 was Milos Stojanovic, and he was accompanied by a reserve policeman,

3 Rakic. They were riddled with bullets in the vehicle they were in, in

4 front of one of their houses.

5 In Glogovac, there was the case of the 13th of May, 1993, when

6 there was a terrorist attack on a van transporting employees of the

7 Pristina SUP Glogovac OUP. The van was taking them to work. They were

8 ambushed at a railroad crossing in Glogovac. Several of them were

9 killed, several wounded. Later on, during the proceedings, it was

10 established that Hashim Thaqi executed that attack, together with his

11 group.

12 Q. Thank you. Now we're going to move on to 1998.

13 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Filic, it may be that you could assist the

14 interpreters by speaking perhaps a little more slowly, especially when

15 you're giving quite a long answer.

16 Mr. Lukic.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well. Very well.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. In 1998, were you the spokesperson of the MUP of the Republic of

20 Serbia?

21 A. I was the spokesperson of the MUP of the Republic of Serbia from

22 June 1998 until the beginning of the aggression, the 24th of March, 1999.

23 Q. Along parallel lines, did you have another duty; and if so, which

24 one?

25 A. The deputy chief of the SUP of Pristina, so I carried out this

1 other duty along parallel lines.

2 Q. Who appointed you spokesperson?

3 A. The chief of SUP of Pristina informed me that the minister

4 decided that the collegium of the ministry decided, in the forthcoming

5 period, I would be the spokesperson in order to help foreign journalists

6 to get the right kind of information about Kosovo, because I was from the

7 area and I was very familiar with the entire province.

8 Q. Now I would like to show you 5D1239; and, first, we should have a

9 look at some footage from Malisevo. You're not here, but I'm going to

10 ask you something in relation to this once you've seen it.

11 [Videotape played]

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, was this to be translated for us

13 because it's not happening for me.

14 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: It is impossible to

15 interpret without a transcript. This is very fast and the sound quality

16 is poor.

17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think the witness can explain, and

18 I think that the reporter is speaking so fast that it would be impossible

19 to provide simultaneous interpretation of what he's saying. But I think

20 that the witness can understand and follow and explain to us what it's

21 all about; however, we need to have it viewed completely.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: All right. Continue.

23 [Videotape played]

24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

25 Q. Mr. Filic, you saw this recording. At that time, did you go to

1 Malisevo; and if so, with who?

2 A. Immediately after the anti-terrorist action took place on the

3 road leading to Malisevo, foreign journalists and crews that were present

4 in Pristina asked the head of the media centre that was located in the

5 Grand Hotel, where they were too, to be given the possibility to go to

6 Malisevo because their information was that everything had been razed to

7 the ground, scorched, and so on.

8 Of course, according to the procedure that I applied before that,

9 I organized their trip to Malisevo, I took them on the very next day

10 after the anti-terrorist action. This footage shows that the delegation

11 of politicians, the leadership of the municipality of Malisevo is touring

12 Malisevo and trying to make sure that normal conditions are ensured in

13 the municipality.

14 Q. Did we hear here a call to all the citizens of Malisevo to go

15 back to their homes?

16 A. Yes, yes. There was this call to all the residents of Malisevo,

17 saying that they would be safe because there is traffic now on the road

18 leading to Orahovac, and for them it is of vital importance. It goes to

19 Prizren too.

20 Q. Is a reference made to aid and food, et cetera?

21 A. Yes. There is a reference to that as well.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, please be careful about the leading

23 nature of these questions.

24 MR. LUKIC: I'm just trying to --

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Especially bearing in mind -- yes, I understand

1 that, but it's really the witness that should be telling us from his own

2 recollection of events. It's sufficient prompting. He's seen the film.

3 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

4 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Filic, Malisevo that you toured at that

5 time, was it razed to the ground?

6 A. It was not razed to the ground. There weren't any damaged

7 buildings at all in Malisevo because the terrorists had positions before

8 Malisevo, and that is where -- from where they had blocked Malisevo.

9 Malisevo, as a settlement, had not been damaged at all.

10 Q. Do you know that in spite of that some people reported to the

11 effect that Malisevo had been razed to the ground?

12 A. There probably were such reports by such agencies; however, as

13 for the people who I took to Malisevo, they saw what the actual situation

14 was. If they sent footage to the world, they could not provide false

15 reports.

16 Q. Now I would like to show you the second part.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Can we have a date for this?

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. Do you remember roughly what the time was when this happened?

20 A. I think that this was on the 28th or 29th of July, 1998.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

23 Q. Now I'd like to play the video-clip from Junik for you.

24 MR. CEPIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, by your leave, just one

25 sentence in relation to the video-clip we saw before. Andrija

1 Milosavljevic one of the Sainovic Defence witnesses, he testified about

2 the previous video-clip and he confirmed its authenticity and his

3 presence. 5D1239 is the reference.

4 JUDGE BONOMY: What's your point, Mr. Cepic?

5 MR. CEPIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I just wanted to be of

6 assistance to the Court so that you would have some additional facts made

7 available to you, if necessary. That's all I wanted. Thank you.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: I can assure you all the previous evidence has

9 been carefully logged and is coordinated on a regular basis. Just

10 because I can't remember word for word all that's happened in this court

11 in the past 21 months or so doesn't mean to say it's not all stored

12 carefully in a way which will correlate it all in due course.

13 So, Mr. Lukic.

14 MR. LUKIC: Can we instruct, Your Honour, the translators now to

15 maybe try to translate this footage from Junik.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: It may prove impossible because of the pace. What

17 should happen in these situations is that there should be a transcript

18 from which they can read, so that they can actually keep up with the pace

19 of the translation. You've asked, you've made your request and we'll see

20 what happens.

21 MR. LUKIC: I kindly ask the translators to try to translate in

22 English, please.

23 [Interpretation] Can we play it now, please.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes.

25 [Videotape played]

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, translation of that would have been

2 impossible in the context of playing it that way.

3 Mr. Cepic.

4 MR. CEPIC: [Interpretation] I beg your pardon, Your Honour.

5 Perhaps I am disturbing you, but when Veljko Odalovic testified, we

6 played this video-clip and I believe that we provided part of what was

7 said on paper. So the interpreters had the opportunity to use that then,

8 so I will do my best to look it up and to provide the Trial Chamber with

9 copies. Thank you.

10 JUDGE BONOMY: Now that you've directed our attention to it,

11 Mr. Cepic, we will be able to find a copy of that without any difficulty.

12 Mr. Lukic, please continue.

13 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you to my colleague, Mr. Cepic.

14 Q. Mr. Filic, tell us briefly, what was it that we saw in this

15 footage? What was reported? What did you say? Could you please explain

16 this for us a bit.

17 A. In this case, as well, I took along all the representatives of

18 the foreign media who were in the area of Pristina then and who wanted to

19 go and see Junik and see for themselves what it was that had happened

20 there, because the Albanians had informed them that Junik had been razed

21 to the ground, that everything had been torched and destroyed.

22 I took them to the actual site; and at the very entrance into

23 Junik, we found kilometres-long trenches, bunkers, obstacles on the road,

24 and the like. All of this had been placed there previously; but through

25 a terrorist action that had been carried out just before that, all of

1 this was removed and traffic of goods and people was unhindered at that

2 point.

3 We could see that there was some minor damage on the facades of

4 buildings; however, the reports made by some people were absolutely

5 untrue. So that was my objective, that was my task. At the moment when

6 I was spokesperson, I wanted to inform foreign journalists in a timely

7 and truthful manner.

8 Q. What did you say on this occasion, do you remember?

9 A. I said that the Ministry of the Interior will continue to act

10 towards the terrorist gangs as we did before that, that we would ensure

11 peaceful life for all citizens, irrespective of ethnic affiliation and

12 that normal conditions would be created for living and working there.

13 Q. Thank you. Now I would like us to move on to disciplinary

14 responsibility and misdemeanours and crimes committed by policemen. What

15 about proceedings concerning such offences, under who is this in the

16 police?

17 A. Disciplinary and criminal proceedings against employees of the

18 ministry is within the domain of the work of the chief of a particular

19 secretariat. Should I explain?

20 Q. Just a moment. Before we continue.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we have in e-court 6D464,

22 please.

23 Q. I think that you have this in the binder before you. Could you

24 please tell me how are misdemeanour proceedings instituted, for instance.

25 A. This is a dispatch of Bosko Petric, chief of the secretariat in

1 Pristina, that he sends to the Ministry of the Interior, to the police

2 administration, since the person involved is a policeman who had

3 committed a traffic misdemeanour. In this dispatch, he is asking for

4 consent to file a misdemeanour report.

5 Secretariats sought such approval or consent from the appropriate

6 administrations within the ministry in cases when criminal reports were

7 filed and misdemeanour reports and when employees were supposed to be

8 removed from the ministry on account of the nature of the violation of

9 work duties on a temporary basis. There was no problem regarding this

10 kind of consent or approval from the appropriate administration, but

11 sometimes this was sought because the ministry compiled a review

12 concerning all employees of the Ministry of the Interior in terms of

13 misdemeanours, crimes, and disciplinary infractions.

14 Every three months these reviews were sent to the secretariats

15 for the sake of their own information so that they would know what was

16 going on among the employees in the ministry in terms of violations of

17 work duty and irresponsible conduct.

18 Q. Do you know in practice whether sometimes consent was not given

19 to initiate criminal or misdemeanour proceedings?

20 A. That never happened. It is only natural that if any citizen, let

21 alone a policeman, commits a crime that proceedings should be instituted

22 in accordance with the law.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No to dwell on this question too

24 long, for the transcript, I'm just going to spell out the documents that

25 deal with this; that is, 6D1339, 6D1340, 6D1343, 6D1344, 6D1345, 6D1346,

1 6D1348, 6D1349, and 6D1357.

2 MR. STAMP: Your Honours, may I just indicate ...

3 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]

4 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Stamp.

5 MR. STAMP: Yes. May I just indicate that most of these

6 documents were notified to us sometime yesterday afternoon in

7 contravention of the Court order as to notification, and most of these

8 documents are not translated. And I do not believe that reading out

9 these exhibit numbers can in any way assist or can be a basis of these

10 documents being received in evidence. Those are the three matters I

11 would like to bring to the Court.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, first of all, I think none of these are

13 translated; is that correct?

14 [Defence counsel confer]

15 MR. LUKIC: Give me one second, please. The document we are --

16 just showed to the witness is translated, and that's why I was using only

17 that -- that one. The others are basically the same and they are not

18 translated yet, and we informed the Prosecutors two or three days ago.

19 But I'm not using that, just for the reference.

20 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, you've been advised that or, well, we have

21 been advised that you notified the Prosecutor yesterday.

22 MR. LUKIC: We notified him two days ago, on the -- a day and a

23 half --

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Yesterday.

25 MR. LUKIC: Yes, it's 12.30 a.m. on the 6th of March.

1 JUDGE BONOMY: Obviously before Mr. Stamp would go to his bed?

2 So why so late?

3 MR. LUKIC: In the conversation with this witness, we discovered

4 that these documents explained the same subjects, so we keep our

5 witnesses until 2.00 a.m. every day, so ...

6 JUDGE BONOMY: And they're all similar letters --

7 MR. LUKIC: Yes.

8 JUDGE BONOMY: -- to the ministry seeking approval for

9 misdemeanour --

10 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour, all the same subjects, all the same

11 letters. It's almost all the same as before.

12 JUDGE BONOMY: All right. Thank you.

13 [Trial Chamber confers]

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, we are not prepared to even allow these

15 documents to be marked for identification. We will refuse any form of

16 admission of these documents. If you can provide a basis later to have

17 them admitted from the bar table, that's another matter, but we would

18 obviously bear in mind at that stage that the Prosecution did not have an

19 opportunity to cross-examine the witness through whom these were sought

20 to be presented. So let's move on to something else.

21 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

22 Q. [Interpretation] Just about this document, 6D464, where approval

23 is sought to submit a misdemeanour report, I'd like to ask you: Did the

24 MUP staff have any role in deciding on issues of misdemeanour, liability,

25 where members of the ministry were concerned in Kosovo and Metohija?

1 A. The MUP staff did not and could not have any role in deciding

2 whether our employees would be called to responsibility or not, because

3 it's all regulated by the Law on the Police Force and Law on Disciplinary

4 Proceedings when disciplinary infractions are concerned, and when

5 misdemeanour and crime is concerned, all the same rules apply as for

6 civilians.

7 Q. Did the MUP staff have any role in proceedings or giving approval

8 to file a criminal report against a member of the MUP?

9 A. No, it did not.

10 Q. Did the MUP staff have any role to play in disciplinary

11 proceedings against members of the Ministry of the Interior?

12 A. It did not.

13 Q. Thank you.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Was a copy of this sent to the MUP staff?

15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. Could you please look at 6D464.

17 A. It was not. It was only sent to the Ministry of the Interior of

18 Serbia, the police administration, and the chief in Belgrade.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

20 Mr. Lukic.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

22 Q. Could you tell us something about the procedure for adopting

23 work-plans in the secretariat of internal affairs and its internal

24 organizational units?

25 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Meanwhile, I would like to call up

1 P1074.

2 Q. It's in your binder. Can you find it, P1074?

3 A. The number again?

4 Q. P1074. Could you open page 2, para 1.

5 A. I haven't found it yet.

6 Q. Look in the back.

7 A. Yes, I found it, 1074.

8 Q. Tell us, first, do you see what this document is?

9 A. It's the annual work-plan for the SUP of Pristina for 1999.

10 Q. Could you turn to the next page, para 1, and tell us something

11 about the procedures for adopting work-plans in the secretariat of the

12 interior and its internal organizational units.

13 A. Annual plans, annual work-plans for the secretariat of internal

14 affairs, were adopted based on the annual work-plan of the public

15 security sector of the Ministry of the Interior, and these work-plans

16 were submitted to secretariats towards the end of the current year so

17 that they could make their own annual plan for the next year.

18 Work-plans were made at the secretariat by lines of work and by

19 area, then they were aggregated at the level of the secretariat, and then

20 they would be submitted to the administration for information and

21 analysis at the ministry in three copies, two of them bound.

22 They were then reviewed; and if it was judged by the

23 administrations for particular lines of work that there was certain

24 omissions or deficiencies in these drafts, that something should be

25 added, the secretariats were informed accordingly to make these additions

1 and corrections and that they should submit a corrected version to be

2 adopted.

3 After they were adopted at the level of the ministry, they would

4 be implemented primarily through monthly plans that were drafted

5 subsequently and submitted again to the administration for information

6 and analysis at the ministry, one by one.

7 Q. From this first paragraph, what is defined as the focus in the

8 work of the secretariat for 1999?

9 A. Combatting crime and maintaining public order and law in the area

10 of the secretariat.

11 MR. LUKIC: In e-court, we have wrong pages. We need pages

12 number 2 but we'll be moving from this page anyways.

13 Q. [Interpretation] I would now like to ask you to open page 11 in

14 B/C/S.

15 MR. LUKIC: It's page 14 in English.

16 Q. [Interpretation] Which part of the plan do we see at the

17 beginning of page 11 in B/C/S?

18 A. Combatting homicides and sexual offences and crime.

19 Q. What is specified?

20 A. In para 1, crimes of terrorism committed in the previous year.

21 Q. In item 2 -- or rather, number 2?

22 A. Number 2 is solving the crime of murder committed by unidentified

23 perpetrator or perpetrators. On the 2nd of December, 1998, against Ilir

24 Durmisi, against Afrim Malici from Donja Dubnica, and Tal Hizri from

25 Pristina.

1 Q. Once criminal reports were filed involving an unidentified

2 perpetrator, would these cases still be worked on although the

3 perpetrator was not identified?

4 A. Yes. Work would continue until the perpetrator is found, and we

5 see that this work is continuing in the next year regardless of who the

6 victim is, and we see from this one that the victims are Albanian.

7 Q. And number 3?

8 A. It's solving the crime of rape -- attempted rape, rather,

9 committed in March 1998 against Novka Zujovic from Bijelo Polje.

10 Q. The perpetrator is identified in this one?

11 A. No, he's not.

12 Q. The victim is identified?

13 A. Correct, the perpetrator is not.

14 Q. Crimes of rape like crimes of homicide, were they still processed

15 although the perpetrator was not identified?

16 A. Of course, all measures were taken to identify the perpetrator.

17 Q. Now, please turn to page 12.

18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] That will be page 15 in English,

19 under number 2. We'll need page 16 in English, in fact.

20 Q. Under number 2, what do we read?

21 A. You mean page 12?

22 Q. Yes.

23 A. In this item, measures are planned that need to be effectively

24 taken to combat and elucidate the most serious crimes, armed conflicts,

25 and settlements of accounts among criminals, looting and republic,

1 extortion, blackmail, kidnapping, aggravated theft by burglaring cash

2 registers, apartments, post offices, petrol stations, et cetera.

3 Q. But we also had terrorism, homicide, and rape on the previous

4 page. What is the dead-line?

5 A. It is a permanent task. It was a permanent task until the cases

6 were elucidated.

7 Q. Let us now go back to page 11, please, the last paragraph.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I think it is page 14 in the English

9 version.

10 Q. Please read out the last paragraph on page 11, which carries over

11 to page 12.

12 A. "With the members of the police, ambushes will be organized,

13 blockades and raids in the area of Pristina where there are crimes

14 committed in terms of property crime in the locations they occur most

15 frequently, in particular in the settlements of Daradnija, Ulpijana,

16 Suncani Breg, Vranjavac, and Dragodan, in order to prevent any further

17 crimes from being committed and in an attempt to apprehend the

18 perpetrators thereof on site."

19 Q. Please explain.

20 A. By analysing these security events, in this case crimes in the

21 territory of that town and the secretariat, in the previous year, it was

22 established that these crimes were most frequently committed in the

23 settlements mentioned in the plan. That's why the plan foresees that in

24 order to prevent any such crimes to be committed in the next year in the

25 aforementioned settlements, ambushes and raids be organized by police

1 members. This should have been preventive action and also an attempt to

2 catch as many perpetrators as possible.

3 Q. Why were these settlements characteristic or typical?

4 A. They were also notorious for the activity of terrorist gang

5 members as well as concerning attacks on state officials, Vranjevac in

6 particular.

7 Q. The same page, 12.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]In the English, I believe it is 16.

9 Q. There is item 4 there. What is the focus of that item of the

10 work-plan?

11 A. The focus is to continue undertaking measures and activities to

12 prevent eruption of inter-ethnic conflicts and disturbances of public law

13 and order in neighbourhoods with mixed ethnic population, as well as to

14 ensure effective protection of personal security of citizens.

15 Q. Item 5, what can we see there? What was the focus when

16 controlling vehicles?

17 A. The focus was to identify perpetrators who illegally attempt to

18 introduce all types of fire-arms into the area.

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Page 13, please. It is 17 in the

20 English.

21 Q. What is the goal of item 1 of page 13?

22 A. The aim was to solve the crimes of armed robbery and robbery with

23 violence in retaining stolen goods. We have the victims, Ivica Jovanovic

24 from Pristina, Ljuljzim Musa from Urosevac, and Ahmet Kurtoli from

25 Pristina.

1 Q. What was their ethnicity?

2 A. One is Serbian, two are Albanian. Ivica Jovanovic is a Serb.

3 Q. Can we see whether any activities were taken up to that point?

4 A. Yes. Through operative work and contacts in the field,

5 information gathering commenced; also by using the secretary files, MOS

6 to try and identify the perpetrators.

7 Q. We have some figures there beginning with "KU." What does it

8 mean?

9 A. It is the crime register and the year when the criminal report

10 was submitted to the competent prosecutor's office; for example, 1679/98.

11 Q. Page -- excuse me, the same page, item 2, what do we see there?

12 A. What is planned is further operative work, that is, for the next

13 year, concerning the cases of impersonating an officer, whereby crimes

14 were committed. During the previous year, there were one, two, three,

15 four -- seven criminal reports submitted for the crimes committed by

16 people impersonating officers by probably wearing certain pieces of

17 uniform. What is also requested is further operative work to resolve

18 these cases.

19 Q. Item 3, we see there that there were aggravated thefts occurring

20 in peacetime as well.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would now like to go to page 18.

22 Q. We see the title number 2, page 24 in English, activities

23 pertaining to public order and law and other police tasks?

24 A. Yes.

25 Q. I've already said that it is page 18 in the Serbian version,

1 bullet point 3. What is planned?

2 A. Item 3, what is planned is to maintain stable public law and

3 order and to prevent inter-ethnic conflicts as well as all aspects of

4 hostile activity. What is envisaged is also an attempt to try to prevent

5 any revival of terrorist activities of Albanian separatists, as well as

6 to oppose any attempts aimed at deterioration of security situation in

7 the area of the secretariat.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]I apologise. It seems that in the

9 English version the title was on another page, page 25.

10 Q. Now, page 21, please, professional education and lawfulness,

11 item 1. Can we see there who put together the programme of professional

12 training or education?

13 A. The programme of professional education or training of authorised

14 officials.

15 Q. Just a moment.

16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] it is page 29 in English.

17 Q. Please go on.

18 A. The programme of professional training of authorised officials,

19 that is put into place by the sector of public security of the Ministry

20 of the Interior of Serbia.

21 Q. Is there a system of permanent professional training in the

22 police?

23 A. Yes, certainly. It existed then and it exists now. There is a

24 system of permanent professional training and education in place.

25 Q. Page 22, please, item 3. The second paragraph of item 3, what is

1 planned therein?

2 A. It is planned that there should be regular control of the

3 legality and quality of methods used by police stations and policemen.

4 Q. What about item 4, what is it about?

5 A. It is about stopping the abuse and overstepping authority and

6 other forms of illegal and deviant behaviour by policemen.

7 Q. What about item 5 --

8 MR. STAMP: [Previous translation continues]...

9 MR. LUKIC: The next page.

10 Q. [Interpretation] What is item 5 about?

11 A. It foresees the obligation to continue taking all measures and

12 actions in the jurisdiction of the ministry, in order to consistently

13 implement the agreement reached between the president of the FRY and the

14 Special US Envoy concerning the arrival of the OSCE verification mission

15 in Kosovo and Metohija.

16 Q. As for the second paragraph of item 5, what does it say?

17 A. It mentions energetic efforts to prevent the implementation of

18 any further plans of Albanian terrorists and planting explosive devices

19 along roads, communications, sport, and economic facilities.

20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]Page 26, please, in the Serbian and 36

21 in the English version.

22 Q. Can we see from this item who conducts the training of PJP and

23 following what programme?

24 A. The training of the PJP is implemented according to the plan of

25 the MUP of Serbia, as can be seen from the several items of the

1 secretariat plan. What is foreseen is the training of the PJP and

2 reserve policemen within the framework of the companies that exist in the

3 secretariat.

4 Q. In practice, did the secretariat of the internal affairs in

5 Pristina have to include a programme of training for the members of its

6 companies?

7 A. Yes.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]Page 31 in the Serbian, please. It is

9 page 43 in the English version.

10 Q. Item 1, what is foreseen there? What should take place?

11 A. I didn't understand the question.

12 Q. Is it foreseen in this item that there might be an increase in

13 terrorist activities?

14 A. What item exactly?

15 Q. Defence --

16 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter apologies.

17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

18 Q. Preparation of defence.

19 A. Since Albanian terrorists are active in order to try and

20 accomplish ethnic cleansing --

21 THE INTERPRETER: Would the witness please slow down when

22 reading. The interpreter did not locate that passage in the English

23 version. Thank you.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Filic, the interpreter could not translate

25 everything that you read there because you read it rather quickly. Could

1 you read that again, please.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well. This is the area of

3 defence preparations. It is stated as follows: "In view of the

4 activities of Albanian terrorist gangs whose goals are ethnic cleansing

5 and secession from Serbia as well as creating an independent state of

6 Kosovo, defence preparation tasks must be organized in accordance with

7 the goals and methods of the Albanian terrorists and separatists."

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

9 Q. At paragraph 1, we see a reference to defence plans?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. Could you please explain this to us. What kind of plans of

12 defence are these within the SUP of Pristina?

13 A. Within the secretariat, specifically within the police department

14 within the secretariat, there were tasks of defence preparations for a

15 police officer. Where there are bigger secretariats like the SUP of

16 Pristina, then there would be two police officers involved in that, two

17 police officers, from the police department, that is.

18 They processed the work related to defence preparation plans

19 because beforehand there was even a department for defence preparations

20 at the level of bigger secretariats. These plans were adopted with a

21 view to defending oneself from different kinds of dangers and threats.

22 Q. You wouldn't know specifically what they pertained to. Did you

23 ever take part in elaborating these defence plans?

24 A. Well, no, I did not take part, but I think that this has to do

25 with defence plans in terms of defending oneself from attacks by Albanian

1 members of the KLA, terrorists. Defence from terrorist attacks, I think

2 that is what this pertains to.

3 Q. Thank you.

4 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And now the next page, 32.

5 Q. In relation to the defence preparations, does this paragraph show

6 who adopts instructions for this?

7 A. "In accordance with the instructions of the ministry, forward

8 reports on the number of members of the police reserve engaged," is that

9 what you mean?

10 Q. Yes.

11 A. It's the ministry that passed the instructions on the number of

12 engaged members of the police reserve force.

13 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]Now paragraph 4 on that same page.

14 A. Do you have a question?

15 Q. Yes, I do. Training of the reserve force, under whose

16 jurisdiction is that?

17 A. Well, the training of the reserve force is under the secretariat.

18 Q. Thank you. How were these work-plans made at SUP level?

19 A. They were made, as I've already said, on the basis of the

20 programme of work of the public security sector of the ministry. All

21 lines of work made their own plans, then the OUPs made their own plans,

22 and at the level of the analysis department of the secretariat, this was

23 all brought together into the unified plan of the secretariat, which was

24 then submitted to the ministry. As I've already mentioned, it was

25 submitted in three copies.

1 Again, in accordance with lines of work in the ministry, there

2 was proper insight into these plans. Possible shortcomings and

3 deficiencies were noted with a view to amending the plans until the final

4 version was adopted. Once the final version was adopted of this annual

5 plan of work, it was implemented during the course of the year, more

6 specifically through monthly plans that were adopted towards the end of

7 every month for the coming month, and they were also submitted to the

8 analysis department in the ministry.

9 Q. As for these work-plans, from the secretariat that you were a

10 member of, did you send them to the MUP staff in Kosovo and Metohija?

11 A. We did not send our annual work-plans to the MUP staff because

12 there was no need to do that.

13 Q. What about monthly plans?

14 A. Not them either.

15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we now call up in e-court 6D269.

16 Q. Do you remember this dispatch? You have it perhaps in your

17 binder.

18 A. Yes, yes, I do remember it.

19 Q. What is this all about, briefly, please?

20 A. This is a dispatch of the Ministry of the Interior sent to all

21 organizational units of the ministry at the headquarters and to the

22 secretariats on the 18th of February, 1999, setting certain priority

23 tasks for the secretariats for the coming period and in relation to --

24 Q. In relation to that work-plan for 1999, of the SUP of Pristina --

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. -- what does this dispatch represent?

2 A. This is an order issuing dispatch from the ministry where certain

3 priority tasks are supposed to be carried through in relation to the

4 general situation in the country.

5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]I will now like to show 6D238.

6 JUDGE BONOMY: Just before moving from that, who is the main

7 addressee of that document? Just every organizational unit?

8 MR. LUKIC: In the seat.

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Can we go back, please, to that.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. You heard the question of His Honour Judge Bonomy, so could you

12 please tell us who the addressees are?

13 A. The organizational units of the Ministry of the Interior of the

14 public security sector at the headquarters; then to the SUPs from

15 1 through 33 to the respective chiefs; to the staff of the ministry in

16 Pristina, to the head; then the border police stations, all of them; to

17 the commander; then the state security sector here, meaning to the

18 ministry headquarters, to the chief, for information purposes.

19 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

20 Mr. Lukic.

21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

22 So now can we see 6D, or rather, I think it's time for our break,

23 Your Honour.

24 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

25 We have to have a break at this stage, Mr. Filic. We will be

1 half an hour. Could you leave the courtroom, please, with the usher, and

2 we will see you again at ten minutes to 1.00.

3 [The witness stands down]

4 --- Recess taken at 12.19 p.m.

5 --- On resuming at 12.51 p.m.

6 [The witness takes the stand]

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic.

8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

9 Q. Can we, Mr. Filic?

10 A. Yes.

11 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]6D238, could we please have that

12 document on e-court.

13 Q. You can find it in your own binder, too, 6D238. It is the third

14 document I think.

15 A. Yes, yes, I found it.

16 Q. Do you remember this dispatch?

17 A. I remember the dispatch. It was sent by the Ministry of the

18 Interior on the 24th of March, 1999, to organizational units of the RJB,

19 all, at headquarters; then the SUPs; the MUP staff; and the border police

20 stations, all of them.

21 Q. What kind of a dispatch is this, because we see that it refers to

22 the one we saw a few moments ago as 6D269. So, in fact, is this a plan

23 of the SUP?

24 A. In fact, this is a more concrete dispatch. In relation to the

25 previous one, it is being stated that the federal government on the 23rd

1 of March declared an imminent threat of war.

2 Q. I beg your pardon.

3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] it says here in the transcript that I

4 said this was a SUP plan and that the previous one -- well, what kind of

5 a document is this, this dispatch, and in relation to the plan of the

6 Pristina SUP.

7 Q. This is just for the transcript. Please go on.

8 A. Organizational units are instructed to intensify the measures

9 referred to in the previous dispatch on the 18th of February, since a

10 state of imminent threat of war had been declared. So we are talking

11 about the 24th of March, 1999. Operative work should be stepped-up on

12 the part of all members of the ministry. There should be an

13 intensification of patrol and all other activities that have to do with

14 covering the ground.

15 Q. Very well. Just tell us whether this spells out the tasks in

16 even more specific terms?

17 A. Yes, in even more specific terms in comparison to the previous

18 dispatch.

19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now have 6D132, please.

20 Q. This is the second document in your binder. This is a dispatch

21 dated the 25th of March, 1999.

22 A. It can be stated that it's even more specific than the previous

23 one, since the federal government had already declared a state of, war,

24 and the most specific measures possible have been taken and orders issued

25 to all units.

1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]6D688, please.

2 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, is that number correct, 6D688?

3 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour, that's what I have. Yes, 6D688.

4 Q. [Interpretation] Have you got it?

5 A. Yes.

6 MR. STAMP: I don't think that document is in e-court. We have

7 been trying to find it for some time.

8 [Defence counsel confer]

9 JUDGE BONOMY: Mr. Lukic, was the witness have a hard copy?

10 MR. LUKIC: Yes, he does.

11 JUDGE BONOMY: Is it only in Serbian?

12 MR. LUKIC: It has a translation as well, and we have it in the

13 e-court.

14 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, it can't be found in e-court and -- sorry.

15 It has now been released and is there. Thank you.

16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

17 Q. Mr. Filic, what does this dispatch of the Ministry of the

18 Interior dated the 5th of October, 1998, refer to?

19 A. This is actually a document of the ministry; it is not a

20 dispatch. It was signed by the minister. It was sent to all

21 organizational units of the Ministry of the Interior; and in this

22 document, the minister orders all the heads of the organizational units

23 how to act in relation to relations with the media and providing proper

24 information to the public, information pertaining to the work of the

25 ministry.

1 Q. How did you function as the spokesperson?

2 A. When I was designated spokesperson, I cooperated, for the most

3 part, with the then-media centre that was located at the Grand Hotel.

4 That is where most of the foreign correspondents were based, too.

5 With the chef de cabinet of the minister and also the information

6 staff of the minister's office, I communicated about going out into the

7 field. Usually, groups of journalists, foreigners, who were interested

8 in going out into the field to tour a particular area contacted Mikim, or

9 rather, Milorad Mihajlovic or his deputy Radovan Urosevic, and they

10 presented their requests.

11 Then these people would call me and ask me whether it was

12 possible, in view of the security situation, to take them to a particular

13 area. So after consultations with the minister's office, I would

14 organize their safe travel to the mentioned areas. Usually, one of the

15 two representatives of the media centre came along with me, Mihajlovic or

16 Urosevic.

17 Q. So who did you receive your instructions from?

18 A. From the head of the office of the minister of the interior.

19 Q. [No interpretation]

20 A. [No interpretation]

21 JUDGE BONOMY: There was no -- hold on, Mr. Lukic, please. There

22 was no interpretation of either the last question or the answer.

23 MR. LUKIC: Yes. I just was warned about it, and I'll try to fix

24 it.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Yes. We need a live interpreter first, though.

1 THE INTERPRETER: Is it audible now?

2 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

3 We have it live, right. Can you repeat that question, please.

4 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

5 Q. Mr. Filic, it's not on the record. My question was: What about

6 the MUP staff, did it have the right to organize press conferences?

7 A. No, it did not.

8 Q. You took journalists and reporters out into the field. Could you

9 give us an example what they saw on these tours? We have seen on this

10 footage the example of Junik. What else did they see?

11 A. My first organized trip with reporters out into the field was

12 after the beginning of anti-terrorist actions in Kosovo and Metohija in

13 the area of Lapusnik village, which is on the route from Pristina to Pec,

14 in the immediate vicinity of Komorane, where this main road had been

15 besieged, cut off, for almost two month prior.

16 Q. And who blocked this road before that?

17 A. The KLA.

18 Q. All right. Continue.

19 A. I took them to the positions that had been engineered by the KLA.

20 They were able to film and find out all they wanted to know. I gave them

21 all the information I could; and after that, I took them to Kijevo

22 village which was also in the same direction towards Pec. It had been

23 besieged for two months before that. I showed them around together with

24 the chief of police in that village.

25 They could see on the way back that in the fields where the wheat

1 was already ripe for harvesting, it was the end of July, there were large

2 areas that are -- that were destroyed. Harvesting could not be done, and

3 it was done by the KLA. I also took them to the Dulje mountain pass,

4 which is on the route from Pristina towards Stimlje, Suva Reka, and

5 Prizren. The road to Prizren had been under siege for almost two months.

6 They could see all the fortifications and engineered positions of the KLA

7 who had been holding this road under control.

8 I also took them from Mitrovica via Srbica to Pec, the section of

9 the road from Srbica to Rudnik, to a place called Zli Potok. It was a

10 very peculiar section of the road where the KLA had cut the road off and

11 held it under control and had dug out many kilometres of trenches along

12 the road. All the reporters could see it with their own eyes, and their

13 agencies, as far as I'm aware, have broadcast this information.

14 Q. In view of the position you held, can you tell us what was the

15 tendency, the trends, of terrorist attacks in the first half of 1998?

16 A. In the first half of 1998, terrorist activities were stepped-up

17 by the KLA. Even back in the end of 1997, they blocked part of the road

18 from Srbica via Devic towards Klina. They held it for a long time; and

19 then after the events this Likosane village, they escalated their

20 activities even further.

21 Q. When were these events in Likosane?

22 A. End February 1998. Later, on in May, the town of Decani was

23 blocked, railroad traffic from Kosovo Polje to Pec was blocked. All the

24 roads I mentioned earlier were also under blockade towards Pec-Prizren,

25 Mitrovica-Pec, and all the others. And, subsequently, specifically in

1 the area of SUP Pristina, KLA stepped up its activities related to

2 kidnappings of Serbs near the open pit mine Belacevac, the place from

3 which the thermal power-station gets its coal. That's one of the first

4 instance when nine Serb employees were kidnapped and taken away and

5 nobody knows where.

6 Just after that, in July, the town of Orahovac was attacked.

7 There were fierce terrorist attacks one after the other. Kidnappings of

8 Serbs in Retimlje village; 14 Serbs, members of one family, were

9 abducted, and not even their remains have been found to date. And all

10 this showed us that, without serious anti-terrorist action, there was no

11 chance of normalising the situation.

12 Q. Did they also proclaim their capital at the time?

13 A. Yes. They proclaimed Malisevo as their capital. They started

14 issuing some identification papers of their own making, licence plates

15 marked KLA that were later found in a building where they were located in

16 Malisevo.

17 Q. Thank you.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: I may have missed this, Mr. Filic, but what was

19 the date of your appointment as the spokesperson?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] June 1998.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Beginning of June.

23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. In your opinion, why were anti-terrorist actions launched?

25 A. Well, that was done for the purpose of liberating roads that had

1 been completely blocked, and it was -- it had been impossible to use

2 them. Traffic was impossible, and that also needed to be done to enable

3 citizens to move around freely. I told you a moment ago which roads had

4 been blocked, so the anti-terrorist actions were first geared at freeing

5 those roads at the first stage.

6 Q. Which event was a decisive factor in deciding to launch

7 anti-terrorist actions?

8 A. I think it was the 18th of July, 1998, when Orahovac was

9 attacked.

10 Q. And how long did these anti-terrorist actions last in 1998?

11 A. Until the 25th of September, as far as I remember, end September.

12 Q. Do you know that a decision had been made at the state level to

13 combat terrorism?

14 A. I know. I haven't seen the decision, but I know that it existed

15 in the form of a plan of anti-terrorist actions.

16 Q. Who were the main players to be involved in this struggle against

17 terrorism?

18 A. The Ministry of the Interior and the army of the FRY.

19 Q. Do you know if this plan was, indeed, realized in practice? Were

20 anti-terrorist actions implemented according to the plan in 1998?

21 A. I think so.

22 Q. Whom did they target?

23 A. Solely terrorists, members of the KLA who had brought the whole

24 area in the situation I described earlier.

25 Q. Were there any anti-terrorist actions in towns such as Pristina,

1 Podujevo, Obilic, Kosovo Polje, Lipljan?

2 A. In these towns in the area of SUP Pristina, there were no

3 anti-terrorist actions.

4 Q. What about some other towns, were there any anti-terrorist

5 actions in other towns?

6 A. As far as I know, there were some in Decani and in Orahovac when

7 it was under siege and attacked by terrorists.

8 Q. Why were there no anti-terrorist actions in some towns and they

9 were launched in others?

10 A. Because in that period in those towns, there were no terrorist

11 attacks, unlike in Decani and in Orahovac. There was no need for

12 anti-terrorist action there.

13 Q. I'd like to ask you now about the agreement that opened the door

14 to the Kosovo Verification Mission. After the completion of

15 anti-terrorist actions, an agreement was made with the OSCE to establish

16 the Kosovo Verification Mission. To the best of your knowledge, was this

17 agreement with the OSCE observed and honoured by the MUP of the Republic

18 of Serbia?

19 A. From what I know personally, I'm convinced that all the

20 provisions of the agreement were honoured by the Ministry of the

21 Interior. First and foremost, that applies to the check-points that

22 existed before the agreement and those that were set up under the

23 agreement and allowed to continue. So I believe the agreement was fully

24 honoured as far as the activities of the MUP are concerned.

25 Q. What about the number of policemen, was it honoured in that

1 respect?

2 A. The number of policemen, the number of check-points, and

3 everything else envisaged by the agreement.

4 Q. Did you have direct contact with members of the KVM?

5 A. No, I did not. My position did not require it.

6 Q. Did you still have an opportunity to see that members of the KVM

7 tolerated some prohibited conduct by the KLA?

8 JUDGE BONOMY: Don't answer that question.

9 It's such a leading question, Mr. Lukic, that the answer cannot

10 assist us.

11 MR. LUKIC: Can I rephrase it? May I rephrase it, Your Honour?

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a moment.

13 Well, if you're wanting to lead evidence of prohibited conduct by

14 the KLA, then there's no problem about that. But it's very difficult to

15 see how you can rephrase the essence of the question, which is whether it

16 was tolerated. Even that description makes it very difficult --

17 MR. LUKIC: I'll move on.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: -- to see how the witness could give evidence that

19 would carry weight with us.

20 MR. LUKIC: Thank you, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: -- as his own evidence.

22 MR. LUKIC: I'll move on.

23 [Interpretation] May I call up in e-court P414.

24 Q. And it's in your binder.

25 A. Sorry, I didn't hear.

1 Q. P414.

2 A. I found it.

3 Q. Thank you. Can you tell us what was the prevailing sentiment

4 among the civilian population in December 1998?

5 A. You mean in relation to this document?

6 Q. In relation to the document and generally speaking.

7 A. Generally speaking, the prevailing sentiment among the population

8 in December 1998 was - I don't know how best to describe it - it was

9 discontent. They were not satisfied with the security situation in the

10 area of the secretariat, first of all, because individual members of the

11 KLA continued their terrorist activities in some areas covered by the

12 secretariat even with the presence of the KVM.

13 It had been expected that with the arrival of the mission,

14 security and safety would be restored instead of having the KLA continue

15 with their terrorist activities.

16 Q. Who drafted the document before us?

17 A. It was drafted by the Assembly Speaker of Podujevo municipality

18 and the president of the Municipal Board of Podujevo municipality.

19 Q. What was he reporting about in this letter?

20 A. He is informing the president and all state officials in Serbia

21 on the difficult security situation in the area of Podujevo municipality.

22 He is explaining terrorist activities in certain areas around Podujevo

23 and so on. They also asked for help and protection.

24 Q. Were any demonstrations there?

25 A. Yes. There were dissatisfied Serb citizens who demonstrated in

1 Podujevo. There were meetings at Podujevo municipality, at their

2 building; and the chief of SUP sent me to Podujevo for a few days to see

3 what it was all about and to assist the officials there to try and

4 maintain the security levels.

5 I spent a few days in the area of Podujevo, and I could see that

6 on the road and at the entrance of Podujevo, as well as in the area of

7 Glavnik village moving from Pristina to Podujevo to the left side of the

8 road, KLA members had dug trenches some 4 to 500 metres to the side of

9 the road and they used them to communicate. They often opened fire on

10 the vehicles using that road as well.

11 Q. At that time, did you know of any problems in the town of Pec?

12 A. There were problems in Pec concerning a group of youngsters, boys

13 who were killed in a bar. There were citizen demonstrations that

14 followed expressing dissatisfaction with the security situation.

15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have P1580, please.

16 Q. It is the last document in your binder. Were there any protests

17 and the blocking of roads around Pristina; and if so, who organized it?

18 A. This document is dated the 8th of January, 1999. It was drafted

19 by the chief of SUP of Pristina, informing the ministry of the events

20 around Pristina.

21 We can see that there were protests on several roads, protests

22 staged by Serbs, because of the incidents that took place at the open-pit

23 mine at Belacevac where a guard was killed, a certain Delic from Laplje

24 Selo, Laplje village.

25 Q. Did you have anything to do with the calming down of the

1 situation?

2 A. No, not directly, but I know that measures were taken to decrease

3 tensions, and at some point the crowd dispersed.

4 Q. Thank you. Please focus on Pristina SUP next. Explain in brief

5 the way Pristina SUP was organized, first along the professional lines,

6 together along with the number of personnel.

7 A. The SUP in Pristina was one of the bigger secretariats, or

8 rather, the biggest secretariat in Kosovo and Metohija, and at the level

9 of bigger secretariats in the territory of the Republic of Serbia. It

10 was organized similar to the SUPs of Nis, Kragujevac, and Novi Sad.

11 The organizational structure, professionally-wise, was such that

12 we had nine departments within the secretariat. Territorially speaking,

13 there were five OUPs which fell under that SUP. There was a department

14 of the police, of the crime police, of the traffic police; the department

15 in charge of the borders, aliens, and travel documents; the department of

16 the fire brigade, or the fire-fighting police, as a matter of fact; then

17 the communications department; the analysis department; and common

18 affairs department; the last was the legal department.

19 The OUPs which fell under the SUP of Pristina were Podujevo,

20 Lipljan, Glogovac, Kosovo Polje, and Obilic, with the police stations in

21 that area.

22 Q. I apologise. I forgot to ask you about staff composition.

23 A. Staff appointments within the secretariat was in accordance with

24 the organizational structure --

25 Q. Could you please give us the names.

1 A. All those in leading positions were qualified in keeping with the

2 rules on systemization of job posts. Bosko Petric was the chief of SUP;

3 I was his deputy; the chief of the police department was Zarko Brakovic;

4 chief of the crime police department was Dragan Pavlovic or Dragoslav;

5 chief of the traffic police department was Miladin Vujosevic; chief of

6 the border department in charge of aliens and travel documents as well

7 was Slobodan Markovic; chief of the communications department, Milos

8 Deretic; chief of the fire brigade was Miodrag Martinovic; chief of the

9 joint or common affairs department was Milorad Rajicic. Chief of the

10 analysis and IT department was Negica Grkovic; and in the administrative

11 affairs department, it was Gordana Cerovic; chiefs of OUPs in Lipljan, it

12 was Nikola Ilic; in Podujevo, Milan Radulovic; in Kosovo Polje, Dragan

13 Miric; in Obilic, Bozidar Spasic; and in Glogovac, Damjanac Petar who

14 testified here yesterday.

15 Q. Thank you. Please explain what the authority of the SUP in

16 Pristina was.

17 A. It was supposed to execute all tasks assigned to it according to

18 the Law on Internal Affairs within its territory.

19 Q. In the territory meaning what sector?

20 A. The sector of public security.

21 Q. Did Pristina SUP have an obligation to communicate with the state

22 security sector, the Army of Yugoslavia, various prosecutor's offices,

23 courts, inspections, citizens, the chief of the district, presidents of

24 municipalities, and other officials?

25 A. The Pristina SUP was supposed to cooperate with all of those, and

1 so we did.

2 Q. Were there border police stations within the Pristina SUP

3 territory?

4 A. There was one at the Pristina airport.

5 Q. Who issued orders to the police station at the airport?

6 A. As well as any other border police station, they received their

7 orders from their professional administration within the ministry in

8 charge of the border and aliens.

9 Q. Where is that administration located?

10 A. It is a part of the Ministry of the Interior in Belgrade.

11 Q. Who is the SUP's chief's superior?

12 A. His superior was the head of the public security sector.

13 Q. Who appoints and replaces people and down to what level within

14 the secretariat?

15 A. Within the secretariat, appointment to certain positions, meaning

16 leadership positions, when we're talking about the uniformed part of the

17 police and going down as far as the police station commander, and with

18 the civilian part of the police, it goes as low as the chiefs of

19 independent sectors. Such appointments are made by the chief of the

20 public security sector. For lower-ranking positions, such appointments

21 are made by the SUP chief.

22 Q. Concerning disciplinary measures, can you explain the procedure

23 before the war, before the 8th of April, 1998?

24 A. For any infractions in line of duty, qualified as minor breaches

25 of work duty, measures are taken by the chief of SUP, as follows: The

1 immediate superior of the employee who committed an infraction opens a

2 file, takes the employee's statement, and includes other evidence. It is

3 then forwarded to the chief of SUP who pronounces an appropriate

4 disciplinary measure. For less serious infractions, those could include

5 fines or warnings. Employees could appeal that decision to the

6 disciplinary court of the secretariat.

7 When we talk about more serious infractions, the disciplinary

8 procedure was conducted before the disciplinary court. Such proceedings,

9 as with the immediate -- as in the previous cases, the immediate superior

10 opens and file and writes a disciplinary report. The file then goes to

11 the chief of SUP; and should the chief establish that there was an

12 infraction, a request for disciplinary proceedings is created and then

13 forwarded to the disciplinary court, which is in charge of any further

14 proceedings. The measures should be those of fining, demoting a person

15 to a lower rank of duty for a year or two, or terminating their

16 employment. The employee concerned could appeal the decision of the

17 court of the secretariat with the appeals court of the ministry, which

18 would be the second instance.

19 Q. When the war began on the 8th of April, 1999, were there any

20 changes in terms of procedure?

21 A. When the war began and when the decree on the work of the

22 ministry in wartime conditions was issued with the date you mentioned,

23 the 8th of April, there were changes concerning more serious infractions

24 or violations of work duty. As of that date, the chief of the

25 secretariat could issue disciplinary measures to his employees for

1 serious violations. I believe the intention was to shorten the procedure

2 in wartime conditions.

3 As for any proceedings before disciplinary courts, it takes time

4 and this was considered to be a more efficient way of dealing with

5 disciplinary violations. Employees could again appeal to the higher

6 disciplinary court with the ministry.

7 JUDGE BONOMY: Just a moment, Mr. Lukic.

8 Mr. Filic, is what happened to Mr. Damjanac an example of the

9 operation of this system?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know what you have in mind,

11 Your Honour. What happened?

12 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, he was removed, was he not, from his OUP?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I wasn't in Pristina

14 on the 1st of May when he was replaced. I don't know how that was viewed

15 or how it can be explained.

16 JUDGE BONOMY: Well, he told us he was demoted.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He was.

18 JUDGE BONOMY: And --

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] He used to be chief of OUP, and

20 they demoted him down to an -- to the level of an operative worker.

21 JUDGE BONOMY: And that was something that, because of the

22 wartime conditions, the chief of the SUP would have power to do?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Concerning Damjanac, that was not a

24 part of any disciplinary procedure.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: I see. Thank you.

1 Mr. Lukic.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

3 Q. Did the chief of SUP have the authority and right to transfer

4 employees to different jobs?

5 A. Yes, for those under the level that I already talked about for

6 which decisions have to be made by the ministry.

7 Q. Now I'd like to ask you the following: What were disciplinary

8 proceedings like if an infraction was committed by a member of the PJP,

9 rather, special police units?

10 A. Members of the PJPs had the same rule applies to them; but if

11 they were outside the area of their secretariat, if they were sent to a

12 different area, and if they committed the breach there, then the

13 immediate superior would make up a case file, then that would be sent to

14 the original secretariat, and that is where the proceedings would be

15 initiated.

16 Q. So -- it would be a leading question. Never mind. I'll move on.

17 JUDGE BONOMY: Who would be the superior who would compile the

18 file or open the file for a PJP person working in a different

19 secretariat?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The commander of the PJP unit would

21 be such an officer, for example.

22 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

23 Now, Mr. Lukic, can you find a suitable place to interrupt.

24 MR. LUKIC: Yes, Your Honour, I can interrupt right now.

25 JUDGE BONOMY: Thank you.

1 Mr. Filic, we have to bring our proceedings for the day to an end

2 because another case is in this courtroom this afternoon and we can't

3 continue; that means that you have to return on Monday to complete your

4 evidence. Between now and then, it is vital that you should have no

5 communication with any person at all, it doesn't matter who that person

6 is, about the evidence in this case, any aspect of that evidence. There

7 are plenty other things to apply your mind to over the weekend, forget

8 about this case, do not discuss the evidence in the case, but return here

9 at 9.00 on Monday morning.

10 Now, could you please leave the courtroom with the usher.

11 [The witness stands down]

12 JUDGE BONOMY: And we adjourn now until 9.00 on Monday.

13 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.43 p.m.,

14 to be reconvened on Monday, the 10th day of

15 March, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.

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