1 Wednesday, 12 September 2012
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.01 p.m.
5 JUDGE LIU: Well, good afternoon, ladies and gentlemen.
6 Mister Registrar, would you please call the case. Or Madam
7 Registrar, I'm sorry.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honour.
9 This is case IT-05-87-A, the Prosecutor versus Sainovic et al.
10 JUDGE LIU: May I now have the appearances of the parties.
11 For the Prosecution.
12 MR. CROSS: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Appearing for the
13 Prosecution, my name is Matthew Cross, together with Ms. Laurel Baig and
14 our Case Manager is Mr. Colin Nawrot. Thank you.
15 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.
16 Now for the Defence counsel, please.
17 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I'm Toma Fila appearing
18 for the accused Nikola Sainovic.
19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much.
20 MR. VISNJIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. President. My
21 name is Tomislav Visnjic. Myself and Russell Hopkins appearing for
22 General Ojdanic.
23 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
24 MR. ACKERMAN: Good afternoon, Your Honour. I'm John Ackerman,
25 along with Aleksandar Aleksic. We're appearing for General Pavkovic.
1 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
2 MR. BAKRAC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.
3 Counsel Mihajlo Bakrac for Mr. Lazarevic.
4 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
5 MR. IVETIC: Good afternoon, Your Honour. Co-Counsel Dan Ivetic
6 appearing on behalf of Sretan Lukic today.
7 JUDGE LIU: I have difficulties to see you. Thank you.
8 Before we start, could we call the parties to see whether they
9 could hear the proceedings in a language that they understand.
10 Mr. Sainovic.
11 THE APPELLANT SAINOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour, I can.
12 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
13 Mr. Ojdanic.
14 THE APPELLANT OJDANIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, yes, I
16 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
17 Mr. Pavkovic.
18 THE APPELLANT PAVKOVIC: [Interpretation] I can, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
20 Mr. Lazarevic.
21 THE APPELLANT LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] I can hear in a
22 language I understand, sir.
23 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
24 Mr. Lukic.
25 THE APPELLANT LUKIC: [Interpretation] I can follow, Your Honour.
1 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much. You may sit down, please.
2 This Status Conference is called in accordance with the Rule 65
3 bis (B) of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the Tribunal which
4 requires a Status Conference to be convened every 120 days during the
5 appeal proceedings to allow that any person in custody pending appeal the
6 opportunity to raise issues in relation hereto, including the mental and
7 physical condition of that person. In the present case, the last
8 Status Conference was held on the 16th May, 2012. Today's Status
9 Conference was scheduled by an order issued on the 13th August 2012.
10 First, I would like to inquire into the status of the detention
11 conditions and the health situation of the Appellants.
12 If you have any concern in relation to the detention condition or
13 your state of health that cannot be resolved through the standard
14 procedures, I would invite you to raise them now. If you wish, this
15 discussion can take place in private session.
16 Yes, Mr. Lazarevic, you have the floor, please.
17 THE APPELLANT LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] Mr. President, here I
18 am again, and to begin with, I would like to thank you most cordially for
19 giving me the floor again.
20 I feel the need, and the duty as well, to acquaint you, with your
21 leave, with my health situation over the past four years through two
22 brief pieces of information.
23 THE INTERPRETER: Four months, correction.
24 THE APPELLANT LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] First of all, at the
25 last Status Conference on 16 May, I informed you that a council of
1 medical experts will be arriving in keeping with the decision of the
2 Government of Serbia so that you could gain full insight into my health
3 status. This three-member medical panel was here in The Hague from 13 to
4 15 June this year. They performed clinical examinations, to the best of
5 their ability, and acquainted themselves with the details of all my
6 medical documentation for the past six, seven years.
7 Concluding the examination, this panel notified some of their
8 conclusions pending a detailed report that would be first submitted to
9 the Government of Serbia. Their basic conclusions, Mr. President, are
10 briefly as follows:
11 One, a large number of surgeries - seven in the past three years
12 to be specific - have considerably affected my health overall, both in
13 terms of my mental and physical status after the trial Judgement.
14 The second conclusion. As they say, they established without any
15 doubt that my current health status and my condition require urgent new
16 laboratory tests and diagnostic procedures, the methods of which are
17 difficult to pronounce but it involves multi-slide scanners,
18 colonoscopies, and all the other procedures that they will list in
19 detail, and that have not yet been applied in my case here in The Hague.
20 Their third conclusion is this: They say that my health has
21 considerably deteriorated. It is degraded overall, especially my
22 digestive system, my neurological problems, psychiatric problems,
23 vascular and oral conditions.
24 And the fourth conclusion - the way I listed it for my purposes -
25 is that, based on the examinations they performed, they see symptoms of a
1 chemical affliction of the brain with ischemic infarctions of the brain
2 and a reduced density of the brain mass.
3 I must note that this conclusion made by experts is diametrically
4 opposite to all the findings of the general practitioners from the
5 Detention Unit that have been informing this Court so far about
6 neurological problems. They say that there is a constant
7 anxiety/depressive disorder in my case, resulting from the overall
8 stressful situation of the past years. These would be briefly their
10 I have also been informed by my Defence team that the complete
11 report of these experts is already before the Government of the Republic
12 of Serbia, and not later than tomorrow, on Thursday, the Government of
13 Serbia will make its decision on the report, and then forward it to the
14 Tribunal and all those who need to receive it.
15 Upon receipt of this report, my Defence team will approach the
16 competent authorities to arrange the necessary diagnostic and medical and
17 other procedures to repair my health in the short time.
18 The second point is this: Mr. President, also, at the last
19 Status Conference I informed you about my oral health, and following your
20 instructions, I approached the Registry of the Tribunal with a request
21 for assistance. This correspondence between the Registrar and the Deputy
22 Registrar, on the one hand, and myself has been going on for four months
23 over which period we have had a few direct contacts, all for the purpose
24 of addressing my health problems. Specifically, the absence of any teeth
25 in my upper jaw and my inability to use a mobile denture, mobile
1 dentures, since February 2009. This problem also complicates my
2 digestive problems and my overall health situation.
3 In these four months, based with conversations with the dentist
4 from the DU, the Registry came up with two positions. One, I quote:
5 "There is no medical justification for any different type of
6 treatment, including implants."
7 This position of the Registry is, to say the least, debatable.
8 The second position of the Registry was put in writing. It
9 addresses the issue of why I have been deprived of the necessary medical
10 treatment in the past. They explain that this type of intervention is
11 extremely expensive because it is a very new procedure.
12 Concerning this second position, I know that the Registry is
13 trying with the Defence Ministry of the Netherlands to find some sort of
14 solution to provide me with the necessary implants that my condition
15 requires according to the opinion of dental surgeons as well.
16 As for my Defence, we have requested from the Government of the
17 Republic of Serbia an expert report on the first position of the
18 Registry. In other words, we asked for an expert explanation why there
19 would be no medical justification for a procedure which is widely used
20 throughout the world. My Defence team and I are not asking for anything
21 special, such as pearl implants, or heat-resistant implants. Second, we
22 have asked which medical institution in Serbia and under what
23 circumstances would be able to provide me with this surgery.
24 This is all I would have to say today. I thank you again for
25 giving me the floor. Thank you for your patience and your confidence.
1 JUDGE LIU: Thank you very much, Mr. Lazarevic. You may sit
2 down, please.
3 Mr. Lazarevic, first of all I would like to thank you very much
4 for informing me about your health conditions at this moment, and we are
5 expecting the reports sent by the Serbia government pretty soon as you
6 mentioned. After that, we will see what kind of action could the
7 Tribunal take.
8 As for your second issue, I believe that we are not in the
9 position to judge whether your medical care is justified or not. We will
10 leave this entirely in the hands of the experts and the dentists. But,
11 anyway, I'll convey your complaint to the Registrar. And also, at the
12 same time, I would like to remind you that, according to the detention
13 rules, if you have any complaints, you could do that according to the
14 normal procedure. Thank you.
15 Is there any other issues that Defence would like to raise? I
16 see none.
17 So before we turn to any other issues that parties may wish to
18 raise, I would like to note that there are currently no pending motions
19 in the present case.
20 At this point, I also would like to ask the parties whether they
21 have any other issues that they would like to raise.
22 Is there any issue the Prosecution would like to raise at this
24 MR. CROSS: We have nothing to raise, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE LIU: Thank you. And counsel for Mr. Sainovic, do you have
1 any other issues you would like to raise?
2 MR. FILA: [Interpretation] No, thank you.
3 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
4 And counsel for Mr. Ojdanic.
5 MR. VISNJIC: We have nothing to raise, Your Honour.
6 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
7 Counsel for Mr. Pavkovic.
8 MR. ACKERMAN: Nothing at this time, Your Honour. Thank you.
9 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
10 Counsel for Mr. Lazarevic.
11 MR. BAKRAC: [Interpretation] Nothing at this time, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
13 Counsel for Mr. Lukic.
14 MR. IVETIC: We have nothing at this time, Your Honour. Thank
15 you very much.
16 JUDGE LIU: Thank you.
17 Well, I believe this concludes today's Status Conference. I
18 thank the parties for their attendance and I'll adjourn these
20 --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned at
21 2.22 p.m.