Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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 1                           Thursday, 8 December 2011

 2                           [Further Initial Appearance]

 3                           [Open session]

 4                           [The accused entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 4.04 p.m.

 6             JUDGE ORIE:  Good afternoon.

 7             Madam Registrar, would you please call the case.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  This is

 9     IT-09-92-PT, the Prosecutor versus Ratko Mladic.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Madam Registrar.

11             Mr. Mladic, would you be so kind to take off your cap.  If you

12     take off your hat then it's easier to listen.

13             THE ACCUSED: [Microphone not activated]

14             THE INTERPRETER:  No microphone.

15             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Lukic, could you ask Mr. Mladic to remain silent

16     for a second.

17             Mr. Lukic, if Mr. Mladic talks to you, if it's a confidential

18     communication between counsel and his client, then he should whisper

19     rather than to speak aloud.  If he wants to address the Court, he can do

20     so through you, and then of course we need a microphone switched on,

21     otherwise we'll not hear what he's addressed.

22             I asked Mr. Mladic to take off his hat.

23                           [Defence counsel and Accused confer]

24             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Lukic.

25             MR. LUKIC:  Yes, Your Honour.

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 1             JUDGE ORIE:  Is Mr. Mladic willing to take off his hat?

 2                           [Defence counsel and Accused confer]

 3             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. -- Mr. Lukic, could you -- Mr. Lukic, could you

 4     tell Mr. Mladic that my patience is limited and that he's hereby invited

 5     to take off his hat.

 6             Thank you.  Please be seated, Mr. Mladic.

 7             THE ACCUSED: [Microphone not activated]

 8             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Mladic, if you want to speak to counsel, do it,

 9     please, in such a way that not everyone is hearing it, because that is

10     considered to be confidential.  Please be seated and then I'll start with

11     the appearances.

12             Appearances.  Prosecution first.

13             MR. GROOME:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  For the Prosecution,

14     Dermot Groome, Peter McCloskey, Roeland Bos, and Janet Stewart.

15             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Groome.

16             For the Defence, Mr. Lukic.

17             MR. LUKIC:  Branko Lukic and Milos Saljic for the Defence,

18     Your Honour.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

20             And we see that the -- Mr. Mladic, the accused, is present.  I

21     see that Mr. Mladic is again, as he did before, seeking to communicate by

22     his body language and gestures with the public gallery.  Now, we have a

23     public gallery because these are public proceedings, not to allow

24     Mr. Mladic to communicate in an uncontrolled way even without speaking

25     with the public gallery.

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 1             So therefore, Mr. Mladic, either you now refrain from eye

 2     contact, gestures, et cetera, with the public gallery, because otherwise

 3     we have to put a screen between you and the public gallery so that

 4     everyone still can see you through the cameras but that you're not able

 5     anymore to communicate in the way you did a minute ago, and you did

 6     before, to use the public gallery for your own purposes.

 7             Is that clear?

 8             Today a Status Conference has been scheduled.  Now, before this

 9     Status Conference, the Chamber will hold a Further Appearance for the

10     accused to enter a plea to the new charge contained in the now operative

11     Third Amended Indictment.  This Further Initial Appearance was originally

12     scheduled for the last Status Conference, of the 10th of November, but

13     due to Mr. Mladic's absence from court the Further Appearance was

14     postponed.

15             The Chamber had considered rescheduling the future appearance for

16     the 24th of November of this year and inquired with the

17     United Nations Detention Unit as to whether Mr. Mladic's health had

18     improved enough for him to attend such a proceeding.  On the

19     19th of November, the Chamber received a courtesy copy of the UNDU

20     reporting medical officer report, indicating that Mr. Mladic's current

21     health condition had improved to the point that he would be able to

22     attend court proceedings.  This report was formally filed on the

23     22nd of November.  However, after the Chamber was informed of scheduling

24     conflicts for the parties, the Chamber ultimately determined not to move

25     forward with the 24th of November date.  And subsequently, the

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 1     Further Appearance was rescheduled for today's Status Conference.

 2             On the 20th of October, 2011, the Prosecution filed the

 3     Third Amended Indictment, adding a new incident, the Bisina incident, and

 4     making technical corrections to the names of several locations and

 5     persons listed in the indictment schedules.  These technical corrections

 6     consist mainly of adding diacritics and previously omitted letters in the

 7     names of certain municipalities and persons.  The Chamber has reviewed

 8     these corrections and accepts that they make no substantive changes to

 9     the indictment.

10             I now move on to the plea to the new charge in the

11     Third Amended Indictment.

12             On the 13th of October, the Chamber issued its decision on the

13     consolidated Prosecution motion to sever the indictment, conduct separate

14     trials, and to amend the indictment.

15             In its decision, the Chamber found that amending the

16     Second Amended Indictment to include the Bisina incident would result in

17     a new charge and ordered that a Further Appearance be held following the

18     filing of the Third Amended Indictment to enable the accused to enter a

19     plea on the new charge.  As I stated already, the Third Amended

20     Indictment was filed on the 20th of October, 2011.

21             Schedule E, part 1 of the Third Amended Indictment titled

22     "Srebrenica Killings," "Organised Killings," now includes the following

23     incident, listed as Incident 12, and I quote:

24             "Location - Bisina:  The killing of over thirty Bosnian Muslim

25     men, some of whom were previously detained in Susica prison, in Bisina in

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 1     Sekovici municipality.  Date:  23rd of July, 1995."

 2             The Bisina incident constitutes a new basis for conviction of the

 3     accused under the Third Amended Indictment on the Counts 2, which deals

 4     with genocide; Count 3, which deals with persecution as a crime against

 5     humanity; Count 4, which deals with extermination as a crime against

 6     humanity; Count 5, which deals with murder as a crime against humanity;

 7     and Count 6, which deals with murder as a war crime.

 8             Mr. Mladic, a not guilty plea was entered on your behalf to these

 9     counts at the Further Appearance of the 4th of July, 2011.  My question

10     to you is:  Do you wish for that not guilty plea to extend to the new

11     Bisina charges as it applies to these counts, or do you wish to enter a

12     plea on each count in relation to the Bisina charges?  So do you want to

13     extend your not guilty plea to the Bisina charges or do you want to enter

14     a specific plea on Counts 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 in relation to that Bisina

15     charge?  What do you prefer?

16                           [Defence counsel and Accused confer]

17             MR. LUKIC:  Your Honour, I --

18             JUDGE ORIE:  Mr. Lukic.

19             MR. LUKIC:  -- I offer my help, and I would -- Mr. Mladic just

20     informed me that he enters not guilty plea on these -- on Bisina charge

21     as well.  It would -- he wants to have transcript in Serbian.  I am

22     trying to explain him that it's not possible, but he says that he follows

23     you pretty hard only through audio because he thinks -- he says that he's

24     very slow so he -- and you talk fast.  So it's hard for him to follow you

25     only verbally.

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 1             JUDGE ORIE:  If at any moment Mr. Mladic would like me to slow

 2     down, I'll be glad to do so.  And perhaps I put it in rather simple terms

 3     to him again.

 4             Mr. Mladic, you are expected to enter a plea.  The Bisina

 5     incident is now part of Counts 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6.  You have entered a not

 6     guilty plea to those counts or, I should say, a not guilty plea has been

 7     entered on your behalf to these counts.  Do you now want to extend that

 8     plea of not guilty also to the Bisina charge?  If that is what you wish

 9     to do, please tell me.

10                           [Defence counsel and Accused confer]

11             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Sir, you said this slowly, and I'm

12     not clear what Bisina means as a term.  Is that a mountain?  Is that a

13     river?  Is that a brook?  Is that some kind of bridge?  Is it a movable

14     feature such as a bus, truck, plane, helicopter?  What is Bisina?  You're

15     mentioning Sekovici; I know what Sekovici is.  But I don't know what

16     Bisina is.  Is that some kind of place or is it a village?  What is it?

17             JUDGE ORIE:  It is a location in Sekovici municipality,

18     where - and that's the charge brought against you - that over

19     30 Bosnian Muslim men were killed, men some of whom had previously been

20     detained in Susica prison.  And it is charged to have happened on the

21     23rd of July, 1995.

22                           [Defence counsel and Accused confer]

23             THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Thank you for this explanation.

24     I'm not guilty and I have nothing whatsoever to do with it, not with the

25     date, not with the place, not with Bisina.

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 1             JUDGE ORIE:  Then it's hereby on the record that the not guilty

 2     plea on Counts 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 extends to Incident 12 of Schedule E,

 3     part 1, of the Third Amended Indictment, which refers to the killing of

 4     over 30 Bosnian Muslim men in Bisina.

 5             Therefore, your not guilty plea is hereby on the record.

 6             In accordance with the procedures of Rule 50(C), the Defence has

 7     30 days from the entering of these pleas, that is, of today, to file any

 8     Rule 72 preliminary motions related to this new charge.

 9             Mr. Lukic, could you already now indicate whether the Defence

10     intends to file such a motion?

11             MR. LUKIC:  I have to see with my whole team and with the client,

12     but I do not envisage filing of a separate motion on this incident.

13             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you.

14             MR. LUKIC:  But I will probably inform the Court in the next five

15     days.

16             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.  We are awaiting any further news about your

17     intentions in this respect.

18             Now, the Chamber will now have a recess of 30 minutes to allow

19     the audio/visual staff time to finish their preparations for the

20     Status Conference broadcast, and therefore we'll have a break and we'll

21     resume at five minutes to 5.00.

22                           --- Whereupon the Further Initial Appearance

23                           adjourned at 4.24 p.m.