150409IT

Page 34309

1 please, when you answer any question, stay close to the microphone.

2 Ms. Hasan, you may proceed.

3 MS. HASAN: Your Honours. Good morning, everyone.

4 WITNESS: NEBOJSA JEREMIC [Resumed]

5 [Witness answered through interpreter]

6 Cross-examination by Ms. Hasan: [Continued]

7 Q. Good morning, Mr. Jeremic.

8 MS. HASAN: Could we call up 043 --

9 A. Good morning.

10 MS. HASAN: Could we display 04315, please.

11 Q. I'm just calling up the same document we were looking at

12 yesterday and that's the statement of Nesko Djokic.

13 And if I can ask that we take a look at page 2 in the English and

14 page 3 in the B/C/S. Do you recognise the signature on the right?

15 A. Yes.

16 Q. And whose signature is that?

17 A. Goran Bogdanovic's.

18 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 04315 into evidence.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

20 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7302, Your Honours.

21 JUDGE ORIE: P7302 is admitted.

22 MS. HASAN: Could we now take a look at 65 ter 25698, please.

23 Q. This, can you see, is dated the 26th of July, 1995. It's another

24 statement. This time, a statement of Slobodan Djokic, son of Nesko, born

25 1 December 1975 [sic] in D. Likanj, Zvornik municipality. 1971 is the

Page 34310

1 year of birth.

2 Mr. Jeremic, you recognise this document?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And it's recorded here that Slobodan Djokic is from D. Likanj,

5 Zvornik municipality, would that be an inaccurate recollection of where

6 he is from, which is Lokanj?

7 A. It is Lokanj.

8 Q. Okay. And again, this is a statement regarding the assistance

9 that was provided to the enemy as is stated there.

10 Now, if we turn to page 3 in the B/C/S and page 2 in the English,

11 please, again, there's a signature there. Do you recognise that

12 signature?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... and whose signature is it?

15 A. Goran Bogdanovic's.

16 Q. And Slobodan Djokic, that would have been the son of

17 Nesko Djokic; correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And you were present, am I right, when he was interviewed?

20 A. Yes.

21 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 25698 into evidence.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

23 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7303, Your Honours.

24 JUDGE ORIE: P7303 is admitted.

25 MS. HASAN:

Page 34311

1 Q. You mentioned briefly yesterday that the Muslim men who were

2 brought to the Standard Barracks were -- had some bruises and injuries on

3 their faces. This is at transcript page 34305, lines 23 to 24. Besides

4 the bruises and injuries you've told us about, how did they appear to you

5 when they were first brought in?

6 A. I don't remember that I said yesterday that they had injuries and

7 bruises on their faces. As a matter of fact, I said that they did not

8 have any bruises or injuries on their faces.

9 Q. Okay. Well, we have your clarification then on the record.

10 So then let's --

11 JUDGE ORIE: Perhaps, Ms. Hasan, you read the relevant lines to

12 the witness. And if the witness still claims that that is not what he

13 said, then we would verify that on the basis of the audio.

14 Witness, whatever you said, we have an opportunity to verify it

15 on the basis of the audio recording of yesterday's hearing, so Ms. Hasan

16 will now read to you what you are recorded to have said and if you still

17 disagree then we'll have an opportunity to verify that, including the

18 translation given.

19 MS. HASAN:

20 Q. So I'll start reading your answer beginning on line 21: "I don't

21 remember that their clothes were covered with blood but I remember that

22 their clothes were torn and not in a good state of repair. But I do

23 remember that they had some bruises and injuries on their faces."

24 So, Witness, does that reflect what you told us yesterday?

25 A. I do not remember having said that. Give me the original. Give

Page 34312

1 me my original statement.

2 JUDGE ORIE: Witness. Witness, this is what you were recorded to

3 have said yesterday. We have the English translation available, but that

4 might not assist you that much. We have an opportunity to verify or to

5 have verified what you said on the basis of the audio, and then verify

6 whether the translation that was given to us was an accurate translation,

7 yes or no. If you say, That's not what I said, we'll have it verified,

8 but I can't give you at this moment any B/C/S version of this is what you

9 said yesterday in this courtroom yesterday as it was recorded.

10 You still challenge that that's what you said or would you

11 consider that this is possible?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I challenge that. It is not

13 possible that I said that.

14 JUDGE ORIE: We'll have it verified.

15 MS. HASAN:

16 Q. So, Mr. Jeremic, could you then tell us how did they appear to

17 you, these prisoners?

18 A. Well, all right, of course, they looked frightened, and their

19 clothes were dirty, torn, dishevelled.

20 MS. HASAN: Could we now take a look at 65 ter 04360.

21 [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

22 MS. HASAN:

23 Q. So we see here it's dated 23rd of July, 1995. It's a statement

24 of Emin Mustafic, son of Rifet, there's some biographical information

25 there, born in 1969 in Drinjaca, member of the 280th Eastern Bosnian

Page 34313

1 Light Brigade. Do you recognise this document?

2 A. Yes.

3 MS. HASAN: Can we turn to page 2 in the English and page 3 in

4 the B/C/S, please.

5 Q. Is that your signature on the right at the end of that statement

6 under your name?

7 A. Yes.

8 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 04360 into evidence.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7304, Your Honours.

11 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted into evidence.

12 MS. HASAN: Could we now see 65 ter 04362, please.

13 Q. Now, this is dated 23 July 1995. It's a statement of

14 Almir Halilovic, son of Suljo, born 25 August 1980 in the village of

15 Bajramovici. And if we turn to page 2 in the English, 3 in the B/C/S, on

16 the right-hand side there under your name, is that your signature?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. And, Mr. Jeremic, I know you've seen these documents numerous

19 times in the past. If you need the opportunity to review it a little bit

20 more, please let me know. Otherwise I'll ask you to tell me whether you

21 recognise this as the statement you took from Almir Halilovic?

22 A. Yes.

23 Q. Now, if we go back to the first page in the English and we just

24 stay with page 3 in the B/C/S, about halfway down the page, after

25 describing how they were following Nesko and his son's instructions on

Page 34314

1 how to get to -- how to cross the front lines, they were exhausted, got

2 lost, and then surrendered in a Serb village. And it records here: "We

3 surrendered" --

4 MS. HASAN: Actually, could I ask ... could I ask to go to page 2

5 in the English. Okay.

6 Q. So it says --

7 MS. HASAN: Can I just see the full page, please.

8 Q. "We had reason to believe" - this is where they surrendered -

9 "that it was a Serbian village and we surrendered there to a man called

10 Bojo. He also gave us food and cigarettes and then took us to the VRS

11 command.

12 "All four of us were taken from there to Ugljevik where we were

13 interrogated. After that, we were escorted by the police to detention in

14 the army barracks in Zvornik."

15 Do you see that, sir?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. And isn't it the case that Drago Nikolic had told you that the

18 military police would be bringing in four persons of Muslim ethnicity?

19 A. Well, I don't remember now whether he said that the military

20 police would bring them in, but he told me down there when we were at the

21 office that somebody would come. Now, did he say four persons of Muslim

22 ethnicity? Well, anyway two Serb soldiers who helped on his assumption

23 helped Muslim soldiers, civilians and that a statement should be taken

24 from the Serb soldiers and from the Muslims who had been taken prisoner

25 so that later Nesko and his son, Slobodan, would be punished because they

Page 34315

1 helped the enemy. That's what he said to me. But who would bring them,

2 I do not remember that he told me who it was that would bring them in.

3 And later on, they did come. Soon later.

4 Q. Let me see if I can help you remember. Do you recall testifying

5 in the Trbic case before the State Court of Bosnia and Herzegovina? This

6 is in December of 2007.

7 A. Yes, I remember.

8 Q. Now, did you tell the truth when you provided your testimony to

9 that court?

10 A. I think I was telling the truth.

11 MS. HASAN: Could we look at 65 ter 32420.

12 Q. Now, this is a transcript, what will appear as a transcript of

13 your testimony in that case. I'd ask for page 14 to be displayed, and

14 it's in English, it's been transcribed from the audio, the B/C/S audio,

15 so I'm going to read it out to you.

16 At line 7, you were asked about what Drago Nikolic had told you.

17 And you respond: "He told me that the military police would bring in

18 four persons of Muslim ethnicity, I believe --

19 And then if we skip down to line 13, you say: "He came into my

20 office because it was on the ground floor, and he told me that military

21 police would bring in four persons of Muslim ethnicity, that according to

22 his information and indications he believed that those four persons were

23 guarded by Serbs on the front line," and so on and so forth.

24 Now, Witness, do you stand by the testimony that you gave to that

25 court?

Page 34316

1 A. Yes.

2 MS. HASAN: I think the last statement we were looking at, that

3 of Almir Halilovic, I'd offer that into evidence; 65 ter 04362, please.

4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

5 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7305, Your Honours.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted.

7 MS. HASAN: Let's move on to the next statement, 65 ter 04359.

8 Q. Another statement. It's dated 23 July 1995. We see it's a

9 statement of Sakib Kiviric, son of Salko, born 24 June 1964 in Jagodinja

10 municipality of Bratunac, member of the 283rd Eastern Bosnia Light

11 Brigade. Now I'm going to ask to keep that name of the village Jagodinja

12 in mind because I'm going to come back to that. If we turn to page 2 in

13 the English and 3 in the B/C/S, can you tell us again whether you

14 recognise the signature on the right as yours?

15 A. Yes, I know the signature, and yes, it is my signature.

16 Q. And you confirm this is the statement you took from

17 Sakib Kiviric?

18 A. Yes.

19 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 04359 into evidence.

20 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

21 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7306, Your Honours.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted.

23 MS. HASAN: Finally, 65 ter 04360?

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is that not P7304 already, Ms. Hasan?

25 MS. HASAN: You're right, I misspoke. 04361, please.

Page 34317

1 Q. All right. So now we have a statement dated the 26th of July,

2 1995. It's from Fuad Dzozic, son of father Senusija born 2 May, 1965 in

3 Zegojno, Srebrenica municipality, member of the 280th Mountain Brigade.

4 Now, if we turn to page 2 in the English, 3 in the B/C/S, please,

5 and I'll ask you if you recognise the signature on the right-hand side

6 there?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Whose signature is it?

9 A. Cedo Jovic's.

10 Q. And having -- if we turn back to the first page is of this

11 statement could you confirm that this was in fact the statement taken

12 from the fourth prisoner, Fuad Dzozic?

13 A. Yes.

14 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 04361 into evidence.

15 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

16 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7307, Your Honours.

17 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted.

18 MS. HASAN:

19 Q. And, sir, these Muslim prisoners, they were made to identify the

20 father and the son who aided them; is that correct?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. You were present during that identification process?

23 A. Yes.

24 MS. HASAN: Could we please display 65 ter 04363, please.

25 Q. This is dated the 25th of July, 1995. It's a record. And it

Page 34318

1 reads -- as record of the identification of Nesko Djokic and

2 Slobodan Djokic. And if we just skip a few lines.

3 "The identification procedure was carried out by

4 Goran Bogdanovic, an authorised official of the military police.

5 "The following were present during the identification ..."

6 And it lists Lieutenant Drago Nikolic, chief of security.

7 Goran Bogdanovic, officer of the crime prevention department.

8 And Nebojsa Jeremic, officer of the crime prevention department.

9 Now is that consistent with your recollection as to who was

10 present during this identification procedure?

11 A. Well, if this is in the document and if this is how it is in the

12 document, then I suppose it's correct.

13 Q. Let's go to page 2, please. In the B/C/S as well, please. Do

14 you recognise that signature as belonging to Goran Bogdanovic?

15 A. Yes, I do.

16 Q. Okay. And let's turn back a page just after it lists who was

17 present during the identification procedure, we see the names of the four

18 Muslim prisoners. Now, as far as you can recall, did the prisoners

19 identify the Djokic father and son independently of each other?

20 A. Well, I can't remember whether it was done individually. I don't

21 know whether they saw them individually, first one and then the other.

22 In any case, I remember that they recognised them.

23 Q. Okay. We see just three-quarters of the way down the page, in

24 the -- what appears to be the second-to-last paragraph, last line: "The

25 enemy soldiers independently picked them out and identified them."

Page 34319

1 Does that help you remember whether they identified them

2 independently?

3 A. It says here "each and every one of them independently," so if

4 that's how it's written, then I suppose that's how it happened.

5 Q. And just briefly, if I can go back again to page 2, because we

6 see a stamp on the B/C/S document, do you recognise that stamp?

7 A. Yes. Military post. The military post of the Zvornik Brigade.

8 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 4356 into evidence.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar --

10 MS. HASAN: Sorry, I made a mistake. 65 ter 4363.

11 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

12 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7308, Your Honours.

13 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted into evidence.

14 MS. HASAN: And now turning to 65 ter 04356, please.

15 Q. Can you tell us what it is we're looking at here?

16 A. This is a ruling on detention or, rather, on remanding

17 Nesko Djokic and his son, Slobodan, in custody for three days.

18 Q. And we see here that it records that detention shall last -

19 excuse me - from 24 July at 1200 hours to 27 July at 1200 hours.

20 Now if we turn the page in the English and the B/C/S - page 3 in

21 the B/C/S, please - do you recognise the signature there?

22 A. Drago Nikolic's, yes.

23 Q. And, again, that's the stamp of the Zvornik Brigade; is that

24 right?

25 A. Yes.

Page 34320

1 Q. Now I understand that you don't know who -- you don't recall who

2 drafted this particular document. But can you confirm that the

3 information provided therein about the detention is accurate?

4 A. It was 20 years ago. If it says that their detention lasted

5 three days, then I suppose that the document is correct.

6 MS. HASAN: I'd offer 65 ter 4356 into evidence. I think I have

7 that number correct. 65 ter 4356.

8 Your Honour, could we have that document admitted into evidence.

9 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7309, Your Honours.

11 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted.

12 MS. HASAN:

13 Q. Now, yesterday you testified that the father -- the Djokic father

14 and son were sent somewhere, you thought to Han Pijesak, to prison or to

15 the front line. This is at transcript page 34298, starting at line 8.

16 And just so we're all clear and to avoid any confusion, can you explain

17 the relationship as you understand it between the three-day detention

18 that we just saw on this record before us and the 60-military

19 imprisonment that was ordered by Commander Vinko Pandurevic?

20 A. Well, I can't remember the details, but I know for sure that they

21 may have been kept in detention for three days, pending the order of the

22 brigade commander to send them for imprisonment of 60 days. Because in

23 the Zvornik Brigade there was only detention, and a soldier could be kept

24 for not more than 15 days. And then the soldiers who were sentenced,

25 i.e., who received either a 30- or 60-day imprisonment pursuant to the

Page 34321

1 commander's order, they were sent somewhere outside of the

2 Zvornik Brigade. I believe it was somewhere around Han Pijesak. I don't

3 know whether they were in prison for 30 or 60 days or whether they were

4 immediately sent to the front line up there. I really can't tell you

5 now, not for a fact because we never received any feedback. In any case,

6 the biggest punishment for them was the fact that they had to be absent

7 from their homes for 60 days. That's my opinion.

8 Q. So if I understand you correctly, the three-day detention did not

9 cancel out, then, the 60 days of imprisonment?

10 A. Yes, precisely.

11 MS. HASAN: Could we turn to 65 ter 04317, please.

12 Q. This is a report on the -- collaboration with the enemy. It's

13 dated 26 July 1995 from the security organ of the Zvornik Brigade to the

14 Military Prosecutor in Bijeljina.

15 MS. HASAN: If we turn to page 2 in the English and 3 in the

16 B/C/S.

17 Q. Do you recognise that signature and stamp?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And do you recall this particular document?

20 A. I don't remember this document at all.

21 MS. HASAN: Can we turn then back to page 1, please, in both

22 languages.

23 Q. The report is on the Djokic father and son, and it relates to the

24 information provided by them and the four Muslim prisoners that they

25 aided. Now, it's sent to the Military Prosecutor in Bijeljina. Did you

Page 34322

1 understand that there were criminal charges that were being laid against

2 the Djokic brother -- father and son?

3 A. According to what I know, I believe that a criminal report was

4 supposed to be drafted, and these are all enclosures to that criminal

5 report. I don't know whether that criminal report was ever drafted or

6 not. In any case, there was an order to issue a criminal report against

7 the two Djokics.

8 Q. Do you know besides -- leaving aside murder cases, would it have

9 been customary for you to receive information back from the

10 Military Prosecutor's office about the disposition of charges that your

11 unit had referred to the Military Prosecutor?

12 A. I did not have any feedback. I believe that our department never

13 received any official information from the Military Prosecutor about the

14 disposition of charges against soldiers of -- of the VRS.

15 Q. And when Vinko Pandurevic issues an order for the imprisonment

16 for a term of 60 days, did he have to await approval from the

17 Military Prosecutor?

18 A. Let me put it this way: I'm talking about the department

19 specifically. Vinko Pandurevic never personally told us, Issue an order

20 on behalf of the brigade commander. It was always communicated to us by

21 Drago Nikolic, chief of security. So we never received a direct order

22 from Pandurevic about either a -- the 30-day imprisonment or the 60-day

23 imprisonment.

24 Q. But returning to my question, did you have an understanding that

25 approval had to be sought from the military courts before 60-day of

Page 34323

1 military imprisonment was issued?

2 A. No.

3 MS. HASAN: Your Honour, I'd offer 65 ter 4317 into evidence.

4 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar.

5 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P7310, Your Honours.

6 JUDGE ORIE: Admitted.

7 MS. HASAN:

8 Q. Mr. Jeremic, now, this Chamber has received evidence from a

9 survivor who had escaped executions at the Branjevo military farm and

10 that he escaped together with four other Muslim men. One of the other

11 survivors he was with was from Jagodinja. This is the village Sakib

12 Kiviric was from, as is recorded in the statement you took.

13 MS. HASAN: Your Honours, this is evidence from RM255 that I'm

14 referring to.

15 Q. Now, this witness had observed blood on the clothing of the

16 prisoner, and while he tried to keep up with the prisoners who -- the

17 four other prisoners -- sorry. The four other Muslim men who were with

18 him he said they were younger than him and he couldn't keep up and he

19 lost them along the way. So it's our position, the Prosecution's

20 position, that the four Muslims who survived the executions at the

21 Branjevo farm on 16th, 17th July and who were encountered by

22 Witness RM255 were the four Muslim men that Nesko Djokic and his son

23 encountered near their house in Lokanj on 18 July 1995.

24 Sir, you would agree with me that the village of Lokanj is

25 located very near to the Branjevo military farm near Pilica?

Page 34324

1 A. Well, yes, I know where the village of Lokanj is. I also know

2 where Branjevo is. But I was never there during the war.

3 Q. But you'd agree that these locations, the village of Lokanj is

4 very near to where these massacres took place at the Branjevo Military

5 Farm?

6 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Objection. This is a very

7 broadly put question. When the Prosecutor says "very close," what does

8 she mean? Can you specify the meaning of the phrase "very close."

9 JUDGE ORIE: Well, let me do as following. Can the parties agree

10 on what that distance is?

11 MS. HASAN: We can certainly meet and agree to that.

12 JUDGE ORIE: Both the question was --

13 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] I believe we can. When I

14 examined the witness, Your Honour, you'll remember we had -- we

15 maintained the same position, and we agreed to agree and in -- in order

16 to avoid asking the witnesses to define any distance. I believe that we

17 can agree on that.

18 JUDGE ORIE: General guidance for the parties: If the locations

19 are known, are identified with sufficient precision, don't ask witnesses

20 about distances but, rather, take a map and look at those maps.

21 Please proceed.

22 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] Just one digression,

23 Your Honours. I believe I am familiar with the area. The village of

24 Lokanj is an elongated village so I believe that --

25 JUDGE ORIE: [Previous translation continues] ... if you want to

Page 34325

1 say that it's not certain that the location of the village could be

2 identified with sufficient precision, then, of course, if that would be

3 an obstacle to reaching agreement - and you said a minute ago that you

4 expected that you could - then, of course, that would perhaps be a

5 problem, but even if a village is 500 metres long, which is perhaps

6 longer than usual, then you still can say that from the one end of the

7 village to Branjevo farm, it's that distance; from the other end of the

8 village, it would be this distance. I mean, let's not bother witnesses

9 with what the parties -- which is not in dispute apparently and which is

10 to be resolved by the parties themselves.

11 MS. HASAN:

12 Q. Witness, you did understand that the four Muslim men who were

13 brought to the Standard Barracks, from whom statements were taken, had

14 survived a mass execution at the Branjevo Military Farm?

15 A. I don't know anything about that. This is the first time I hear

16 it from you. I really don't know anything about that. I was never in

17 Branjevo. I don't know where they came from. They provided their

18 statements the way they did, and ... I don't know. I haven't a clue.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, have you never heard about a larger number

20 of Muslims being executed or have been killed at Branjevo farm? Never

21 heard about that?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I did hear about that, but only

23 after the war and while following the work of this Tribunal.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, you said I don't know anything about that.

25 That's clear. "This is the first time I hear it from you." So that

Page 34326

1 wasn't the truth, because you heard about it after the war earlier, isn't

2 it?

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I heard about that after the

4 war.

5 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] I apologise, Your Honours. I

6 would kindly ask the witness to remove his headphones for a moment.

7 JUDGE ORIE: Do you understand the English language, Witness?

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do not.

9 MR. STOJANOVIC: [Interpretation] And I also have a request that

10 this objection should be put forth by my learned friend who speaks

11 English. I wouldn't be able to do that.

12 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Ivetic, is there any translation issue?

13 MR. IVETIC: The issue is with Your Honour's question, which

14 misstates the evidence. At transcript page 19, line 12 to 14, the

15 question relates to the four Muslim men being from that massacre, which

16 the witness said, he's hearing about it for the first time. So Your

17 Honours' question misplaces the evidence.

18 JUDGE ORIE: If that is the case, let me re-read it.

19 Yes, that's -- really some ambiguity in it. Whether he heard for

20 the first time those who escaped. That's fully admitted, Mr. Ivetic,

21 that I put it in a way to the witness which is not fair to him, and I

22 apologise for that.

23 Let's resume.

24 MS. HASAN:

25 Q. And, witness, I will get back to your knowledge of the mass -- I

Page 34327

1 will get back to [Previous translation continues] ...

2 A. Yes, yes, I can hear you.

3 Q. I will get back to what you knew about the massacres that were

4 taking place shortly. But at this point now, after the investigation of

5 this case involving the Djokic father and son, you noticed that the four

6 Muslim prisoners were no longer there at the barracks; isn't that

7 correct?

8 A. I didn't see them after that.

9 MS. HASAN: If we can take look at 65 ter 25697.

10 Q. Mr. Jeremic, this is a statement you gave to the Office of the

11 Prosecutor on the 12th of January, 2006. Do you recognise your signature

12 on the front page of that statement?

13 A. Yes, yes, I do.

14 Q. Okay. And if we turn to the last page so we can see the

15 signature there.

16 MS. HASAN: Sorry, the page before. And could we also look at

17 the B/C/S, please. Page 7. Thank you.

18 Q. Is that your signature?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. And now could we look at e-court page 4 in the English and page 5

21 in the B/C/S, please, do you recall, in the interim, telling the truth to

22 the Prosecution?

23 A. Yes, I stand by that.

24 MS. HASAN: Sorry, it's the previous page. I'm interested in

25 paragraph 17. And in the B/C/S the next -- no. We had the right page in

Page 34328

1 the English. That's right. And in the B/C/S, can we turn the page,

2 please. Okay.

3 Q. Let's look at paragraph 17. It reads: "After this

4 investigation, the prisoners were returned to the detention room at the

5 brigade. I knew that the prisoners remained there for a time as I used

6 to walk down that passage on occasion. Some days later, I noticed that

7 the prisoners were no longer there. I do not know what ... happened to

8 the prisoners and have never received any official explanation as to what

9 became of them. In my opinion, the brigade commander or the chief of

10 security were the ones who made the decisions about the prisoners. I was

11 not at any meetings where the fate of the prisoners were discussed."

12 Now, sir, do you stand by what you -- your statement -- the --

13 what I've read out from your statement?

14 A. Yes, I do.

15 Q. And yesterday you were asked whether you had any personal

16 knowledge of what happened to these Muslim prisoners who you took

17 statements from. And you said you didn't know, as I've just read out

18 what had happened to them but you went on to tell this Chamber and this

19 is at transcript 34299, starting at line 9: "I believe that they had

20 joined the other prisoners of war and left, that they were driven away to

21 Batkovic to a camp down there. I don't know what kind of camp that was

22 in Bijeljina."

23 Now, sir, the last known location of these prisoners was at the

24 Standard Barracks, and these prisoners are still missing today. We have

25 the record, and this Chamber has the record of the prisoners that were

Page 34329

1 registered at the Batkovic collection centre and who were exchanged, and

2 they are not amongst them.

3 MS. HASAN: That's P2132 for your reference.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Repeat the number, please.

5 MS. HASAN: P2132.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

7 MS. HASAN:

8 Q. One of these four Muslim prisoners, Almir Halilovic, he was just

9 around 15 years old, and he's still missing today. So I'm going to give

10 you to opportunity to please tell us for the sake of his mother, his

11 surviving relatives, what do you know about what happened to these

12 prisoners and where can they be found?

13 A. I've already told you once that I did not make decisions and I

14 have idea whatsoever who it was that did make decisions. I mean, what

15 kind of question is this. I don't know. I mean, really, I don't know

16 anything. As can you see from here I was just taking statements so that

17 Nesko and his son would be punished. I'm sorry if this happened. I

18 really have no idea what happened to them. Can somebody here believe

19 what I'm saying?

20 JUDGE ORIE: Next question, please.

21 MS. HASAN: Your Honour, I note the time, and it would be a good

22 time for the break.

23 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, we're even a bit late for the break.

24 Witness, we'd like to see you back in 20 minutes after the break.

25 You may follow the usher.

Page 34330

1 [The witness stands down]

2 JUDGE ORIE: We will resume at five minutes to 11.00.

3 --- Recess taken at 10.36 a.m.

4 --- On resuming at 10.57 a.m.

5 JUDGE ORIE: While we're waiting for the witness to be escorted

6 in the courtroom, it's not one of the best days of this Chamber.

7 First of all, in relation to the guidance I gave in the margin

8 this morning, well, whether it was guidance or not but I emphasised that

9 for an update of a Rule 65 ter witness summary that you would have to

10 seek approval. Now I think it's three years ago that we said that we

11 allowed the parties to -- to do without that formality, so that is hereby

12 corrected. Because at the time we said that the parties do not need to

13 seek leave to amend the summaries which you would expect on the basis of

14 the Rules but we desisted from that formality.

15 Now, there's another matter, the verification of what the witness

16 said yesterday about whether he remembered he had seen bruises and

17 injuries on the faces of the prisoners. Turns out to be that there's a

18 translation error and I will put that to the witness in a second when he

19 enters the courtroom.

20 Mr. Ivetic.

21 MR. IVETIC: Your Honours had asked for us to report as to the

22 video D917.

23 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.

24 MR. IVETIC: I can report that we'll be submitting a compilation

25 of the excerpts tomorrow on DVD.

Page 34331

1 JUDGE ORIE: That is appreciated. Perhaps since we're still

2 waiting for the witness, Ms. Hasan, you are again and again referring to

3 having survived the massacre or the execution at Branjevo farm. Is it

4 really survival or is it that they escaped it?

5 MS. HASAN: Well, they -- they escaped -- they survived and

6 escaped it. I'm not sure I appreciate the distinction.

7 [The witness takes the stand]

8 JUDGE ORIE: The problem -- I had no opportunity to fully go back

9 into the background of it, but if you are lost from a group before they

10 end up at the location where there's an execution, then you could say you

11 escape and therefore survive but in that respect, of course, many

12 others -- those who escaped would not usually refer to as survivors.

13 MS. HASAN: So can I confirm that they survived. It's our

14 position that they survived.

15 JUDGE ORIE: Okay. Then please forgive me that I do not have all

16 the details of the evidence in my head, that's then clear.

17 Witness, before we continue, I'd like to revisit a matter which

18 we discussed earlier. When you said, I never told this Court that you

19 had remembered that the -- that the imprisoned or the Muslims which were

20 captured had bruises and injuries, we have that verified, and I think you

21 rightly insisted on a verification. Because what was interpreted to us:

22 "But I do remember that they had some bruises and injuries on their

23 faces," should have been, the accurate translation should have been:

24 "But I do remember that they did not have bruises and injuries on their

25 faces and bodies," so it is hereby verified that you indeed denied to

Page 34332

1 have seen bruises and injuries on their faces and bodies.

2 I think in fairness to you, we should -- we should clarify this

3 immediately. We have done so, and you were right.

4 Please proceed, Ms. Hasan.

5 MS. HASAN:

6 Q. You testified yesterday that the crime prevention unit which you

7 were a member of was -- fell under the control of Drago Nikolic. I'd

8 just like to understand the procedure that took place on a daily basis,

9 and if you can confirm that I understand the procedure correctly.

10 Namely, that on a daily basis, you would meet with the chief of security

11 or inform him of the situation, as far as military detention is

12 concerned, he would go to a briefing with the brigade commander, and

13 after that, you and your colleagues would either be summoned by

14 Drago Nikolic to his office or he would call you and he would hand down

15 the instructions as to what your tasks were that day.

16 Have I encapsulated that correctly?

17 A. Yes, have you encapsulated the procedure correctly. But we are

18 talking about the detention unit of the Zvornik Brigade and its

19 combatants; you didn't say that. We informed him how many men were in

20 detention from the Zvornik Brigade and as far as the Muslim prisoners are

21 concerned, let me explain about the detention of the Zvornik Brigade. We

22 kept full records. We knew how much detention was ordered by the

23 battalion commander up to 15 days and so on and so forth. As for Muslim

24 prisoners, our service did not from any information, we didn't know their

25 number, we did not keep their records, nor did anybody ever inform us

Page 34333

1 about any such thing.

2 JUDGE ORIE: Could you slow down, please, because otherwise the

3 interpreters are unable to follow you.

4 Please proceed.

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] If necessary, I will repeat. Shall

6 I repeat? Shall I explain again?

7 What you said about our meetings with Drago Nikolic is correct

8 but those meetings were exclusively linked to the Zvornik Brigade

9 detention, i.e., the detention of the Zvornik Brigade where the

10 combatants of the Zvornik Brigade were kept.

11 MS. HASAN:

12 Q. Witness, I'll just stop you because we do have your complete

13 answer, I believe.

14 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. And you were at risk to speak in your

15 correction as fast as you did the first time. So could you please slow

16 down in your following answers.

17 Please proceed.

18 MS. HASAN:

19 Q. So when Drago Nikolic was absent, who would have been the person

20 who provided you with instructions?

21 A. His deputy, Milorad Trbic. But I repeat. That applied only to

22 the combatants of the Zvornik Brigade who were detained.

23 Q. And as far as any combat-related tasks were concerned within the

24 sphere of the military police, who was your superior?

25 A. The commander of the military police company,

Page 34334

1 Lieutenant Miomir Jasikovac. However, the crime prevention department

2 did not get engaged in combat. The police themselves very seldom were.

3 We were involved in policing duties, bringing people in, controlling

4 bridges, traffic control. There were three military police platoons

5 within the military police company and there was also our department, the

6 crime prevention department. We were never engaged in combat.

7 Q. Now, the Standard Barracks we've been talking about, where were

8 they located?

9 A. On the main road between Zvornik and Bijeljina, say, about 3

10 kilometres away from town.

11 Q. And your reference to Zvornik, I understand, would be the town of

12 Zvornik; is that correct? So it fell between the town of Zvornik and

13 Bijeljina in Karakaj?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. The barracks themselves, they comprised of two floors; is that

16 right?

17 A. There's a ground floor and there is a floor upstairs, yes.

18 Q. And on the floor upstairs were the offices of Pandurevic,

19 Obrenovic, Drago Nikolic, and the operations duty room. Do I have that

20 right?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Your office, you've told us, was on the ground floor. Where was

23 the infirmary?

24 A. On the ground floor.

25 Q. And am I right that you actually slept at the barracks in the

Page 34335

1 dormitory during that time-period?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. So you would have passed the infirmary on a daily basis to go to

4 the dormitory.

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. Now, do you recall during the time -- during that time-period,

7 and I know you're not very good with dates, but before 23 July between 10

8 to 15 wounded Muslim prisoners were brought to the infirmary at the

9 Standard Barracks at the Zvornik hospital. Now, they were under the care

10 of the chief of the medical centre of the Zvornik Brigade,

11 Dr. Zoran Begovic, and they were receiving treatment. Do you recall

12 these patients? One of them had an amputated lower leg.

13 A. I don't remember if somebody had an amputated leg, but I think

14 that I saw wounded Muslim prisoners as I passed by, by the infirmary.

15 It's a hall that I have to go through in order to go upstairs to sleep

16 there.

17 As for this amputated leg, I really don't remember.

18 Q. Now, Dr. Zoran Begovic has testified before this Tribunal in the

19 Popovic case, and he said that these wounded prisoners were secured by

20 military policemen. You saw military policemen standing guard?

21 A. Well, I don't remember the details now. Possibly. Possibly. I

22 really do not remember who it was that guarded them.

23 Q. These prisoners you saw -- these wounded prisoners you saw them

24 being put on a truck, didn't you?

25 A. The truck was at the other entrance into the Standard Barracks

Page 34336

1 there was the main entrance where the entrance to the command was and

2 there was this other entrance and that's where they -- I've already

3 talked about this. Two trucks stopped and, I mean, well, they were put

4 onto the truck. Now whether it was these wounded persons, I've already

5 said, according to my estimate, and I can see that from my office when I

6 was sitting up there, perhaps it's about 50 metres away, I saw Muslim

7 prisoners being put onto the truck, and they were driven away somewhere.

8 I asked later on, but I was unofficially told that they were being taken

9 to Batkovic. But then I've already talked about this.

10 Q. Okay. These trucks, were there VRS soldiers around them?

11 A. Yes. I didn't know them. I don't think they were from the

12 Zvornik Brigade, I mean.

13 Q. Were they military policemen?

14 A. Right now, I cannot recall. They were people in uniform but

15 whether they were military policemen, I really cannot recall.

16 Q. Did you see Lieutenant-Colonel Popovic from the Drina Corps?

17 A. Lieutenant-Colonel Popovic? I don't know him. I think I've

18 never seen him. Maybe I did see him actually but I didn't know who it

19 was. So I really don't know who this man is. I heard of

20 Lieutenant-Colonel Popovic, I heard that he was in the corps. But,

21 personally I never saw him. I mean, I never met him. We were never

22 introduced. Maybe I came across him, but I did not know that it was

23 Lieutenant-Colonel Popovic.

24 Q. Now you say you heard of a Lieutenant Popovic. You didn't know

25 who Lieutenant-Colonel Popovic, chief of the security of the Drina Corps,

Page 34337

1 was from your superior command?

2 A. Yes, I never met Popovic, I never sat with him, but I did hear

3 that Popovic is the chief of security of the Drina Corps. I state that

4 with certainty. But I don't know what the man looks like at all. That

5 is certainly correct.

6 Q. So in relation to what you just testified and specifically you

7 said that you didn't know -- couldn't remember whether -- now, whether it

8 was these wounded persons who were put on the truck. Let's see if can I

9 help you remember.

10 Now, you recall that you testified, as I've shown you before the

11 transcript of your testimony in Trbic case in 2007 before the State

12 Court.

13 MS. HASAN: If we can call that up again. It's 65 ter 32420.

14 Could we see page 23.

15 Q. And again, this is only in English, Mr. Jeremic, so I'll read it

16 slowly so that can you follow along.

17 MS. HASAN: Can we direct -- can we look down to line 23, please.

18 Q. Question was put to you: "Have you ever been informed, did you

19 ever find out when these Bosniak prisoners, the injured ones, left the

20 barracks? "

21 "A. Well, I wasn't informed as to when they were brought there

22 or when they were taken away, but actually I saw when - how to put it? -

23 I saw them boarding a truck that was at another entrance. They were

24 placed there, and rumours had it that they were taken to Batkovici for an

25 exchange. But I didn't see them leaving the compound, I didn't see them

Page 34338

1 whether they went to the left or to the right of the barracks.

2 "Q. When you saw them getting on the truck, were there any VRS

3 soldiers around?

4 "A. Yes.

5 "Q. From which unit were they from?

6 "A. I believe that they were unknown soldiers, but I can't claim

7 that with certainty ..."

8 Do you stand by that testimony you gave to the State Court.

9 A. Yes. I didn't know which unit. I didn't know where they went,

10 and what I said, that they were taken to Batkovic, that is what people

11 were saying in the barracks. A soldier could have walked by and I said,

12 Where are these people going? And he said, To Batkovic. Somebody sort

13 of heard that they were going to Batkovic but I don't see why I would be

14 receiving information as to where Muslim prisoners were being taken. I

15 really don't know. I was just an ordinary soldier.

16 Q. There's evidence in this case that on the morning of the 23rd of

17 July, Vinko Pandurevic asked for a solution, that a solution be found for

18 the wounded prisoners because there was a problem with sending them back

19 to Zvornik hospital.

20 MS. HASAN: That's P2139, Your Honours.

21 Q. And he's told shortly after that that Popovic will arrive at 1700

22 hours to say what needs to be done regarding the "work" that was talked

23 about.

24 And this, Your Honours, can be found in P2140, and the Zvornik

25 Brigade duty officer notebook for 23 July.

Page 34339

1 Now, there's evidence that around the 23rd of July, military

2 policemen took the wounded prisoners from the infirmary and they were

3 executed.

4 Now, surely these wounded prisoners, there was a lot of talk at

5 these barracks, surely you knew that these men were taken away to be

6 executed?

7 A. On the contrary, there was no talk, and I never heard about this.

8 This is the first time I'm hearing of this, from you. Not where they

9 were taken, not who took them. You've told me just now. It's the first

10 I hear of it.

11 Q. I'm going to move on now to the buses you spoke about yesterday

12 that you saw transporting male prisoners under the guard of members of

13 the VRS. This is at transcript page 34280, starting at line 3.

14 Can you describe what you were able to observe about the men on

15 those buses?

16 A. Well, I've already testified about that. I can repeat. I will

17 repeat that this Standard Barracks, the barracks of the Zvornik Brigade

18 buses passed by it and there were guards inside and --

19 Q. [Previous translation continues] ... I just want you to

20 specifically focus on the men that you saw inside the buses. Now, what

21 did you observe about them? How were they seated? What did you see?

22 A. The buses passed by quickly, and I could notice that men were

23 sitting in the seats and that they were looking into the ground and that

24 they held their hands above their heads and that in the buses there were

25 uniformed Serb soldiers who were standing there, and the bus was going

Page 34340

1 from Zvornik to Bijeljina, that is what I saw for sure and that is what I

2 already stated.

3 Q. And when you say their hands were above their heads, do you mean

4 to say that their hands were sort of raised up high or were they clasped

5 behind their necks?

6 A. Their hands were clasped behind their necks and their heads were

7 bend down, and uniformed Serb soldiers were standing next to them and

8 then the bus passed by, didn't stop in front of the barracks so I didn't

9 see who the soldiers were, and you couldn't really recognise anyone at

10 that moment, what unit they came from.

11 Q. I'm going to move on to the day that you were on guard duty at

12 the gate of the Standard Barracks.

13 There were no MPs at the barracks at that time; correct? Sorry,

14 is that your recollection?

15 A. Yes, they went out into the field, and I was told by the --

16 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters did not hear who.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- stay at the gate. I don't know

18 where they went.

19 JUDGE ORIE: Who told you that, witness?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The commander of the company of the

21 military police, Lieutenant Jasikovac.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Please proceed.

23 MS. HASAN:

24 Q. And it was precisely because there was nobody left at the

25 barracks that Commander Jasikovac assigned you to gate duty; isn't that

Page 34341

1 right?

2 A. Commander Jasikovac, yes.

3 Q. You -- it wasn't part of your --

4 JUDGE ORIE: Is that an answer to the question, I wonder? Did

5 Commander Jasikovac assigned you to gate duty because there was nobody

6 left at the barracks? Was that the situation?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, all military policemen, how

8 do I put this? They got ready and went somewhere in the field and he

9 said to me, Jeremic, you're going to stay at the gate on guard duty and I

10 stayed at the gate.

11 JUDGE ORIE:

12 MS. HASAN:

13 Q. Your colleagues, Goran Bogdanovic and Cedo Jovic, they weren't

14 assigned to the gate. They went to the field; isn't that right?

15 A. Yes.

16 MS. HASAN: Could we take a look at P1565. And, Your Honours,

17 and the Defence, I have the original here. I think the Defence has seen

18 this attendance roster of the military police before. We've shown it

19 on -- it was displayed on the screen yesterday, but I think for the

20 purposes of the next questions it would be beneficial to have the

21 original before you.

22 JUDGE ORIE: Could the usher assist.

23 MS. HASAN: And on the screens could we see page 3, and I think

24 it suffices, since we're seen this before, to just have the original

25 B/C/S displayed.

Page 34342

1 Q. If you could look -- you see where your name is. You're listed

2 number 6. Number 5 is Goran Bogdanovic. Number 7 is Cedo Jovic.

3 And if you can just move your eyes along the columns and take a

4 look at the column numbered 14. So this is the 14th of July.

5 You see there's a plus sign for your name and there is what

6 appears to be on the face of the document a T, which is an indication of

7 in the field, for Goran Bogdanovic and Cedo Jovic. Do you see that?

8 A. Yes, I see that.

9 Q. And if you look to the right and left of that, we see indication

10 that Goran Bogdanovic and Cedo Jovic are present at the barracks. So,

11 sir, the day you were standing guard at the gate when Cedo Jovic and

12 Goran Bogdanovic were in the field was the 14th of July; isn't that

13 right?

14 A. Well, that is what is written here.

15 MS. HASAN: And, Your Honours, the reason I put that document in

16 front of you is to -- and I think -- I believe we have shown you this

17 before, is to look at some underlying markings beneath the markings of T

18 that are ... marked under the Ts for Goran Bogdanovic and Cedo Jovic. We

19 can even blow up the one that is on the screen. Just for the column

20 closer to the -- to the -- if we can blow up 13, 14, 15, 16 July, that

21 area.

22 So it's somewhat visible there on the screen, and it should be

23 even better in the original.

24 Q. Sir, when your colleagues Bogdanovic and Jovic returned from the

25 field, what did they tell you about where they were?

Page 34343

1 A. They didn't tell me anything. Nobody really said much at the

2 time.

3 Q. They told you that they were in Orahovac, didn't they?

4 A. No, they didn't.

5 MS. HASAN: Could we look at 65 ter 32395.

6 And, Your Honours, I'll just ask that you keep the original just

7 momentarily with you. 65 ter 32395.

8 Q. Sir, you remember testifying in the Popovic case, and you

9 testified in 2007 and then again in 2008 for the Defence. So first as a

10 Prosecution witness, and then as a Defence witness. You remember that?

11 A. I do.

12 Q. And you told the truth to that Trial Chamber, didn't you?

13 A. I believe so.

14 MS. HASAN: Could we have a look at e-court page 20.

15 Q. Lines 21 is where I'm going to begin reading, and I'm reading

16 this out to you because it's in English.

17 "Q. So when you testified a couple of moments ago that 'some of

18 them told me where they were in the field,' can you just tell the Trial

19 Chamber who told you and what did they tell you about where they were in

20 the field? Then I'll move on.

21 "A. Well, my work-mates, Bogdanovic and some others, told me

22 they were in Orahovac, in the field there. I know about them. I didn't

23 ask anyone else about anything of the sort."

24 Do you stand by that testimony you gave to the Popovic Trial

25 Chamber.

Page 34344

1 A. Well, if I said that then, then it's correct. It's correct

2 probably.

3 He possibly told me -- it was a long time ago. 20 years ago. I

4 really can't remember every single detail. It is possible. Very well.

5 Yes, okay. He told me. Let's stick to that.

6 Q. In fact, sir, not only did --

7 A. I apologise. But he did not tell me one or two days later. I

8 suppose he told me perhaps even seven days later. I really can't give

9 you any dates. Yes. I can't give you anything in terms of time

10 reference, whether it was three, five or seven days later or a month

11 later, but it was a long time ago. But, okay, I accept that he did tell

12 me that.

13 Q. And, in fact, you were told that the Muslim prisoners were being

14 shot at Orahovac. Isn't that the case?

15 A. But he -- that he did not shoot at them. That he threw his rifle

16 and that he refused to shoot at them. That's what he told me and I still

17 claim that to this very day.

18 Q. So you confirm that you were told that there were executions

19 taking place in Orahovac where your colleagues were present.

20 A. I wasn't there.

21 Q. That's not what I'm asking you.

22 A. I -- I know that you're not. And as to when he told me that, I

23 don't know. He -- he may have told me. I really can't remember.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Witness, the question simply is whether he told you

25 that or not. That's the -- that's what --

Page 34345

1 MS. HASAN: Yes, Your Honour.

2 JUDGE ORIE: -- Ms. Hasan is asking you.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well. I know but the question

4 was when he told me that. I can't tell you. I can't remember when he

5 told me maybe he told me three months thereafter or perhaps six months

6 later. I really don't know. Maybe he told me that once the war was

7 over. I can't remember when he said that. And this is my answer.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: But the question doesn't ask you when you were

9 being told, sir. You were just asked whether you were told.

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: And, in fact, he told you, as you just testified a

12 few minutes ago, that he refused to shoot at these people, he threw his

13 gun away; is that correct?

14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's what he told me.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... thank you.

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] You're welcome.

17 MS. HASAN:

18 Q. You had also heard from Zvornik Brigade soldiers in the days

19 after you saw the buses pass by the Standard Barracks carrying,

20 transporting Muslim men, that executions were also taking place in

21 Pilica; isn't that right?

22 A. I said that? I don't understand your question. Are you saying

23 that I said that? Did I state that? Or are you putting a question to

24 me?

25 Q. Well, I'll -- I'm first putting the question to you, which is

Page 34346

1 that you had heard from soldiers that executions were taking place in

2 Pilica.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: The question was "heard from Zvornik Brigade

4 soldiers."

5 MS. HASAN: Thank you, Your Honour.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] At that time, not much was said

7 about that. People kept quiet about that. Not much was said at all.

8 Whether I heard something or not - and if I did, when I heard what I

9 did - I really don't know how to answer your question. Indeed, I don't

10 know.

11 Q. Let me see if I can help a little bit.

12 A. Go on. Give it your best shot.

13 MS. HASAN: 65 ter 32393, please, e-court page 12.

14 Q. Again, this is your testimony in the Popovic case. See, I'm

15 going to read, starting at line 6.

16 Sorry, if we can just scroll up, I'll read the question so that's

17 clear:

18 "Q. At some time after this day when you saw those buses, did

19 you begin to hear rumours at the brigade? And if so, can you tell the

20 Trial Chamber what those rumours were that you heard?

21 "A. After that, I don't know exactly how many days later, I

22 can't give you a date as to when, but I heard that there were executions

23 of Muslims in Orahovac and Pilica. Those were the rumours that were

24 going round in the brigades or, rather, at Standard I heard this from the

25 soldiers. No one said anything officially, but many of them were talking

Page 34347

1 about it."

2 Do you stand by that testimony you gave?

3 A. Yes, I stand by what I said then. I suppose that there were

4 rumours. But I don't know when. Yes, there were rumours. Probably

5 there were.

6 Q. Were you or - to your knowledge - anyone in your unit instructed

7 to conduct any investigations into these executions that took place at

8 Orahovac and Pilica?

9 A. Nobody ever asked for that officially. I don't know anything

10 about that.

11 [Prosecution counsel confer]

12 MS. HASAN:

13 Q. And, sir, just to clarify, you say "not officially."

14 Were you unofficially asked to conduct any investigations?

15 A. Nobody ever requested that. None of the officers ever told me

16 about that. Whatever I'm telling you is based on hearsay, on what the

17 soldiers were talking about, what I heard on the street, what rumours I

18 heard. Nobody ever shared that information with me in any way.

19 MS. HASAN: Your Honours, I have no further questions. Only to

20 say that it's the Prosecution's position that the document that is before

21 you, the attendance roster, under the T markings for Goran Bogdanovic and

22 Cedo Jovic, are the letters O, and there's testimony on that as well in

23 this case.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Could you remind us what the letter O stands for

25 on the legend.

Page 34348

1 MS. HASAN: Orahovac, Your Honour.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

3 JUDGE ORIE: Is that in the legend or is that your

4 interpretation? Because we see TO as in the terrain, but not Orahovac.

5 The O then stands for a different location.

6 MS. HASAN: It is in the legend, Your Honour. We can turn to it,

7 P1565, and -- yes. In fact, it's -- this document is a document that

8 we've raised before, and that there were certain erasures made to it.

9 One of the erasures made was for the defined term -- for the definition

10 of the term O, and if you look at the last --

11 JUDGE ORIE: Could we have a look at it.

12 MS. HASAN: -- few pages. And it is probably, in fact, more

13 visible in the original before you but we'll have to zoom in, I don't

14 know how good this scan is, it's difficult for me to see on the scan. I

15 can definitely see it on the original, Your Honours. We do also have an

16 expert report that was of an examination of this document which is not in

17 evidence in this case. But it's --

18 JUDGE ORIE: But we are looking at this moment at the legend in

19 English which seems not to correspond with the legend in B/C/S or am I

20 wrong? SL or C means off and then this is the one which corresponds with

21 what we... yes. And there it says TO stands for in the field and osnaci.

22 MS. HASAN: And I believe it's -- if you look at the original, it

23 should be ... I can't properly see it on this scan.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Apparently we have two different pages with legenda

25 because we looked at -- that we look at another one before? Yes. At

Page 34349

1 least in English translation of.

2 MS. HASAN: Yeah. But the erasure that I'm referring to, it

3 should be, if you look at the original, where the T is. It is Teren and

4 I'm not sure it's helpful to look at the screen --

5 JUDGE ORIE: Well, let's say the following. I have a -- although

6 a bit of it, a vague recollection that we looked at it in quite some

7 detail in the past. Let's re-read that rather than to now, where there's

8 no need to do it with the witness, to try to reconstruct any matters

9 which we should take more time for.

10 MS. HASAN: And I will provide those references for you,

11 Your Honours.

12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before we leave this page here, Madam Hasan, I

14 don't see any symbol that stands as an O alone on this legend.

15 MS. HASAN: That's correct. Because it's our position that the

16 legend included an O with a definition Orahovac, which was erased over

17 which T and Teren was replaced.

18 JUDGE ORIE: And in the entries was [Overlapping speakers] ...

19 MS. HASAN: I think that is explained in the testimony which I

20 will --

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: And Orahovac was deleted from the legend.

22 MS. HASAN: Absolutely.

23 JUDGE ORIE: That's the Prosecution's position, let's be clear

24 about that. We don't have to verify it with the witness now.

25 MS. HASAN: And Your Honour, it is visible. The erasure is

Page 34350

1 visible in the original.

2 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Not the pages you have provided to us at this

3 moment, but we received four -- or perhaps it's at the back.

4 Unfortunately, I have forgotten my glasses today, but Judge Moloto.

5 MS. HASAN: I'd be much worse without my glasses, Your Honour.

6 [Trial Chamber confers]

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Somebody attend to Mr. --

8 JUDGE ORIE: That's very helpful of you, Mr. Mladic. I have -- I

9 have an opportunity to later look at it again with my glasses and I don't

10 know whether your glasses and my glasses present the same picture. That

11 is still to be seen. Well, nothing is translated, but I take it that

12 this is a friendly gesture which is addressed to me. No need to

13 communicate that with the public gallery.

14 [Trial Chamber confers]

15 JUDGE ORIE: I'll return it to you. I think that you're

16 referring to, where there seems to be an empty line in the legenda that

17 there was something there before. That's how we have to understand it,

18 if we would follow your view.

19 MS. HASAN: Yes. It should be around exactly where you've

20 pointed out, Your Honour.

21 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, between "teren" and "teren Zepa."

22 No further questions? Or do you have any --

23 MS. HASAN: No, Your Honour. That would be all. Thank you.

24 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. If you would just give me one second, please.

25 I'm just re-reading a portion of the evidence which may cause me