Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 185

1 Friday, 24 March 2000

2 [Initial Appearance]

3 [Open session]

4 --- Upon commencing at 3.40 p.m.

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Registrar,

6 have the accused brought in, please.

7 [The accused entered court]

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Would

9 somebody help the accused with his headset, please.

10 Do you hear me Mr. Naletilic?

11 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You may be

13 seated.

14 [The accused sits down]

15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: Madam Registrar, would you

16 call the case, please.

17 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] This is

18 IT-98-34-I, the Prosecutor versus Mladen Naletilic,

19 also known as Tuta, and Vinko Martinovic, also known as

20 Stela.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

22 very much. First of all, I would like to say good

23 afternoon to the people in the technical booth, and to

24 the interpreters, and to be sure that everybody can

25 hear me. Thank you.

Page 186

1 Good afternoon as well to the public, who are

2 watching these proceedings. The preliminary

3 proceedings which these are, these are the preliminary

4 proceedings, more specifically, this is the Initial

5 Appearance of Mr. Naletilic, which is covered by Rule

6 62 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence.

7 I now turn to the Prosecutor to ask for the

8 appearances.

9 MS. DEL PONTE: [Interpretation] Yes,

10 Mr. President. The Prosecution is represented by

11 myself and Franck Terrier, Douglas Stringer, and

12 Mr. Vassily Poriouvaev.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

14 very much, Madam Prosecutor.

15 I now turn to the Defence. Would you

16 introduce yourself, sir, and tell us what bar you are a

17 member of, and what your qualifications are for this

18 Tribunal, as you presented them to the Registrar.

19 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Good afternoon

20 to all, Your Honours. Let me introduce myself. I'm

21 Kresimir Krsnik, attorney from Zagreb. I'm a member of

22 the Croatian Bar Association in Zagreb. I would like

23 to use this opportunity, Your Honours, to address this

24 Tribunal in my mother tongue, in Croatian, even though

25 I speak the languages of this Tribunal, and this is all

Page 187

1 I would like to do at this stage. Thank you.

2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Krsnik,

3 am I saying it correctly, Mr. Krsnik?

4 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] It's a little

5 bit difficult to pronounce. It's Krsnik.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Krsnik.

7 Yes, Mr. Krsnik, you may be seated for the moment.

8 Turning to the registrar, has everything been

9 prepared in respect of Mr. Krsnik's qualifications.

10 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes, Your

11 Honour. There are no problems in that respect.

12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

13 very much.

14 I will now turn to Mr. Naletilic who is

15 appearing today for the first time, further to an

16 indictment which was established against him by the

17 Prosecutor of this Tribunal.

18 Mr. Naletilic, would you rise, please, and

19 would you please answer the questions I'm going to ask

20 you.

21 Would you please state your name and your

22 first name.

23 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation]

24 Mladen Naletilic, Tuta.

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] What is

Page 188

1 your date and place of birth?

2 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] It is

3 the 1st of December, 1946.

4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] And where

5 were you born?

6 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] At

7 Cigansko Brdo, municipality of Siroki Brijeg, in

8 Bosnia-Herzegovina.

9 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] What is

10 your profession, and what was your residence before you

11 came here?

12 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] I was

13 a manager and I lived at the Hotel Esplanade for the

14 last five or six months, and as of late, I was in

15 prison.

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are you

17 married and do you have any children?

18 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] I was

19 married, and I do have children. That is correct.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Today,

21 Mr. Naletilic, this is your Initial Appearance before

22 the Tribunal. This is a formality, of course, it is a

23 substantive one, where you must be present and

24 conscious and aware with your attorney, because this is

25 the time after your arrest when, for the second time,

Page 189

1 you are given the opportunity to familiarise yourself

2 with all the charges that the Office of the Prosecutor

3 has raised against you and which was confirmed by a

4 Judge, until such time as evidence has been presented

5 in an inter parte hearing.

6 So that things be clear, Mr. Naletilic, I

7 will first ask the registrar to read us the constituent

8 texts, and these are the ones which provide you with a

9 certain number of rights and which will then allow you

10 to move to the most important formality of this

11 appearance, that is, to ask you whether you wish to

12 plead guilty or not guilty and to know to which counts

13 of the indictment you are pleading guilty or possibly

14 not guilty.

15 You may now be seated for the time that this

16 is being read out, Mr. Naletilic.

17 [The accused sits down]

18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

19 Nevertheless, I ask that you be very attentive to the

20 reading of these texts, and your attorney as well, but

21 your attorney is very familiar with them.

22 Madam Registrar, would you please read the

23 texts of Article 20 and 21 of the Statute and Rule 62

24 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence.

25 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Article 20 of

Page 190

1 the Statute of the tribal: Commencement and conduct of

2 trial proceedings. The Trial Chambers shall ensure

3 that a trial is fair and expeditious and that

4 proceedings are conducted in accordance with the Rules

5 of Procedure and Evidence with full respect for the

6 rights of the accused and due regard for the protection

7 of victims and witnesses. A person against whom an

8 indictment has been confirmed shall, pursuant to an

9 order or an arrest warrant of the International

10 Tribunal, be taken into custody, immediately informed

11 of the charges against him, and transferred to the

12 International Tribunal. The Trial Chamber shall read

13 the indictment, satisfy itself that the rights of the

14 accused are respected, confirm that the accused

15 understands the indictment, and instruct the accused to

16 enter a plea. The Trial Chamber shall then set the

17 date for trial. The hearing shall be public unless the

18 Trial Chamber decides to close the proceedings in

19 accordance with its Rules of Procedure and Evidence.

20 Article 21: Rights of the accused. All

21 persons shall be equal before the International

22 Tribunal. In the determination of charges against him,

23 the accused shall be entitled to a fair and public

24 hearing, subject to Article 22 of the Statute. The

25 accused shall be presumed innocent until proved guilty,

Page 191

1 according to the provisions of the present Statute. In

2 the determination of any charge against the accused

3 pursuant to the present Statute, the accused shall be

4 entitled to the following minimum guarantees in full

5 equality:

6 To be informed promptly and in detail in a

7 language which he understands of the nature and charge

8 and cause of the charge against him; to have adequate

9 time and facilities for the preparation of his defence;

10 and to communicate with counsel of his own choosing; to

11 be tried without undue delay; to be tried in his

12 presence and to defend himself in person or through

13 legal assistance of his own choosing; to be informed,

14 if he does not have legal assistance, of this right;

15 and to have legal assistance assigned to him in any

16 case where the interests of justice so require and

17 without payment by him in such case if he does not have

18 sufficient means to pay for it; to examine or have

19 examined the witnesses against him and to obtain the

20 attendance of the examination of witnesses on his

21 behalf under the same conditions as witnesses against

22 him; to have the free assistance of an interpreter, if

23 he cannot understand or speak the language used in the

24 International Tribunal; not to be compelled to testify

25 against himself or to confess guilt.

Page 192

1 Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure and

2 Evidence: Initial appearance of the accused. Upon

3 transfer of the accused to the seat of the Tribunal,

4 the President shall forthwith assign the case to a

5 Trial Chamber. The accused shall be brought before

6 that Trial Chamber or a Judge thereof without delay and

7 shall be formally charged. The Trial Chamber or the

8 Judge shall satisfy itself, himself, or herself of the

9 right of the accused to counsel is respected; read or

10 have the indictment read to the accused in a language

11 the accused speaks and understands, and satisfy itself,

12 himself, or herself that the accused understands the

13 indictment; inform the accused that within 30 days of

14 his Initial Appearance, he or she will be called upon

15 to enter a plea of guilty or not guilty on each count,

16 but that should the accused so request, he or she may

17 immediately enter a plea of guilty or not guilty on one

18 or more counts. If the accused fails to enter a plea

19 at the Initial or any Further Appearance enter a plea

20 of not guilty on the accused's behalf. In case of a

21 plea of not guilty, instruct the Registrar to set a

22 date for trial. In case of a plea of guilty, if before

23 the Trial Chamber, act in accordance with Rule 62 bis,

24 or if before a Judge, refer a plea to the Trial Chamber

25 so that it may act in accordance with Rule 62 bis;

Page 193

1 instruct the Registrar to set such other dates as

2 appropriate.

3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

4 very much, Madam Registrar.

5 Let me now turn to Mr. Krsnik. Has the

6 accused received a copy of the indictment in his

7 language, and does he understand its contents.

8 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, Your

9 Honour, my client has received a copy of the indictment

10 and understood it.

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me,

12 Mr. Krsnik. I was not listening to the right channel.

13 Would you please repeat that, I made a mistake here.

14 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, my client

15 has received a copy of the indictment and has

16 understood it.

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

18 Mr. Naletilic, would you rise, please.

19 [The accused stands]

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

21 Mr. Naletilic, have you received the indictment in your

22 own language?

23 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] I

24 received it.

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Did you

Page 194

1 understand the contents of the indictment?

2 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Yes,

3 very well.

4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are you

5 prepared today to tell us whether you plead guilty or

6 not guilty to each of the counts?

7 I see that Mr. Krsnik wants to speak before

8 his client answers. Please, Mr. Krsnik, proceed.

9 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your

10 Honours. Before my client makes his plea on the

11 indictment, I would like to point out a very serious

12 problem, which is the condition of health of my

13 client.

14 My client has a serious heart condition and

15 has been in intensive therapy for the last six months.

16 He had four surgeries, four operations, on his coronary

17 arteries, and an expert team from Amsterdam were sent

18 to Zagreb and conducted two examinations. After the

19 second examination, they established that he was only

20 able to be transported, but nothing else. The doctors

21 of the University Hospital in Zagreb have warned both

22 myself and the Office of the Prosecutor of the very

23 serious risks that Mr. Naletilic is running in

24 attending this trial, and the increased stress that he

25 may be exposed to may lead to fatal consequences.

Page 195

1 So for these reasons, my opinion is that,

2 first of all, we need to have an expert examination;

3 both medical and psychological experts should be

4 involved, and only upon their finding we could go ahead

5 with the proceeding.

6 We believe that this Tribunal should abide by

7 the highest standards of international law, and we hope

8 that you will agree that Mr. Naletilic should be first

9 examined before we proceed. And if the Trial Chamber

10 does not agree to this proposal of ours, we will submit

11 it in writing following this session.

12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me,

13 Mr. Krsnik. I'm going to ask Mr. Naletilic to be

14 seated for the time being. You may be seated,

15 Mr. Naletilic.

16 [The accused sits down]

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] What is

18 your request now, Mr. Krsnik? This is the Initial

19 Appearance. The Initial Appearance is a formality, as

20 you know, during which the accused must plead guilty or

21 not guilty to each of the counts. This is not the

22 trial, and, as you have heard, your client said that he

23 received the indictment in his own language, that he

24 understood its contents; therefore, right now he need

25 merely answer whether he pleads guilty or not guilty.

Page 196

1 What is it that you're requesting now?

2 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Your Honour,

3 very simple; it's very simple. The position of the

4 Defence is this: My client's health is at such risk

5 that at any moment, the most serious and grave

6 consequences may ensue, and I need to point this out,

7 both for his sake and for my own sake, Your Honours.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] We'll give

9 the floor to the Prosecutor, but I would like to tell

10 you that the trial is not going to begin today. We're

11 not speaking about beginning the trial.

12 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, I

13 understood this; I understood this very well. However,

14 the position of the Defence is that we cannot even

15 start the proceedings before we had an expert report

16 whether he is capable of attending these proceedings at

17 all, and only experts can determine this, regardless of

18 the fact that this is a formality, for as far as the

19 Defence are concerned, the proceedings are beginning

20 now, and we say that we have to determine whether he is

21 able to attend, because it may lead to the fatal

22 consequences.

23 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam

24 Prosecutor, what is your opinion in respect of this

25 request?

Page 197

1 MS. DEL PONTE: [Interpretation] Yes, Your

2 Honour. I would say that the Initial Appearance has

3 already begun; we're just about complete with it. All

4 we need is a response from the accused to tell us

5 whether he's pleading guilty or not, because he's

6 familiar with the indictment, with the charges. The

7 Defence is now telling you, "My client cannot answer

8 because his medical condition doesn't allow him to do

9 so."

10 Mr. President, we can't follow this any

11 further. Insofar as we all agree that if the Defence

12 is asking for an evaluation, we have nothing against

13 that. There already have been two or three or four.

14 Well, we'll have one more. All right, we agree. No

15 problem. But that we should say right now that the

16 accused truly cannot even answer without endangering

17 his health, there, I just cannot understand.

18 Your Honour, I feel that this hearing, this

19 Initial Appearance, is one that we should be able to

20 complete, and it be completed very easily. If you

21 could just simply tell us, even though he doesn't say

22 anything at all, because in the Rules it says that if

23 he doesn't plead one way or the other, the third

24 solution will take place, which means that he simply

25 does not want to express himself orally in that

Page 198

1 respect.

2 There you are. The Prosecution opposes the

3 request, stating that the evaluation can be done

4 tomorrow.

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you,

6 Madam Prosecutor.

7 Mr. Krsnik, I cannot do your work, the

8 Presiding Judge cannot do your work, but you heard Rule

9 62 being read out, and when I started by asking you

10 what is your motion, you had to tell us; you just can't

11 give us an opinion, simply. I'll give you the floor,

12 and I cannot tell you that you must do this or that;

13 I'm only asking what your motion is. What is your

14 request? I give you the floor, Mr. Krsnik.

15 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Thank you. My

16 request is very clear, and I do not agree with my

17 learned colleague, the Prosecutor, at all. It is not a

18 question of my client pleading yes or no. My request

19 has been very clearly stated. The position of the

20 Defence is that I want the expertise to determine

21 whether my client is able to be present in these

22 proceedings, and this is what we have said at the very

23 beginning.

24 Before we start the proceeding, we need to

25 resolve this. Madam Prosecutor, we can just conduct

Page 199

1 this expertise, and the experts will tell us very

2 clearly that he is not able to be present at the trial

3 and that his presence there would put him at risk to

4 have the most fatal consequences.

5 So before we start the proceedings, I'm

6 opening a very serious issue. This may happen right

7 now. What happens if he suffers a seizure now, and

8 what would I have done had I not warned the Trial

9 Chamber of this?

10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Krsnik,

11 you are an attorney; is that correct?

12 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You're not

14 a physician. The Trial Chamber knows, and we have

15 received an evaluation from the doctors stating that

16 they concluded that the patient, Mladen Naletilic, is

17 currently capable, from his mental point of view, to

18 understand -- we're talking about understanding, only

19 understanding what is happening, and he is mentally

20 suitable in order to understand the charges and the

21 proceedings that have been engaged against him, and to

22 contribute to his own defence. The problem now is

23 not -- well, is only knowing whether he is able to

24 understand. The doctors have said yes, and that's why

25 we're here.

Page 200

1 I'm going to ask you -- just for a moment, I

2 want to confirm with my colleagues, and then the

3 Chamber will take a decision.

4 [Trial Chamber confers]

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The Trial Chamber

6 considers that the request of the Defence that we postpone the

7 time for pleading guilty or not guilty. I believe that's the

8 correct interpretation of the request, pursuant to Rule 62 iv)

9 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence:

10 "If the accused does not plead one way or the other at the

11 Initial Appearance or at a subsequent appearance, takes note in

12 his name of a plea of not guilty."

13 But the Chamber considers that he must be very well

14 informed of the indictment, and for that reason, the Chamber

15 orders that the indictment be read out, pursuant to Rule 62 ii) of

16 the Rules of Procedure and Evidence. The accused, however,

17 can postpone his plea of guilty or not guilty to another day.

18 Madam Registrar, I'm now going to ask you to

19 read the indictment completely.

20 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Your Honour, the

21 Defence is familiarised with the indictment, and it is

22 not necessary to read it out, and my client is also

23 familiar with it, so we waive the right for the

24 indictment to be read.

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] As you

Page 201

1 know, there is also a public dimension in our hearings,

2 there is a public present here, and that public wants

3 to know what the charges are. For that reason, the

4 Trial Chamber orders that the entire indictment be read

5 out. Thank you, in any case, for calling my attention

6 to what you just said.

7 Madam Registrar.

8 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Case

9 IT-98-34-I, the Prosecutor versus Mladen Naletilic,

10 also known as "Tuta", and Vinko Martinovic, also known

11 as "Stela".

12 Indictment.

13 The Prosecutor of the International Criminal

14 Tribunal for the former Yugoslavia, pursuant to her

15 authority under Article 18 of the Statute of the

16 International Criminal Tribunal for the former

17 Yugoslavia (hereinafter the Statute of the Tribunal)

18 charges: Mladen Naletilic, also known as "Tuta", and

19 Vinko Martinovic, also known as "Stela", with crimes

20 against humanity, grave breaches of the Geneva

21 Conventions, and violations of the laws or customs of

22 war.

23 Background.

24 1. On 25 June 1991, Croatia declared its

25 independence, which was suspended until 8 October

Page 202

1 1991. The Republic of Croatia was recognised by the

2 European Community on 15 January 1992, and it was

3 admitted as a member State of the United Nations on 22

4 May 1992.

5 2. Bosnia and Herzegovina declared its

6 independence on 3 March 1992. The Republic of Bosnia

7 and Herzegovina was recognised by the European

8 Community on 6 April 1992 and by the Republic of

9 Croatia on 7 April 1992. The Republic of Bosnia and

10 Herzegovina was admitted as a member State of the

11 United Nations on 22 May 1992.

12 3. The Croatian Community of Herceg-Bosna

13 (HZ HB) proclaimed its existence on 18 November 1991

14 and claimed to be a separate or distinct "political,

15 cultural, economic and territorial whole" in the

16 territory of Bosnia and Herzegovina. Its purposes

17 included, inter alia, the establishment of closer ties

18 with the Republic of Croatia. These aspirations, which

19 were supported by the Republic of Croatia, were

20 evidenced by the HZ HB's use of the Croatian currency

21 and the Croatian language and the granting by the

22 Republic of Croatia of Croatian citizenship to Bosnian

23 Croats.

24 4. The Constitutional Court of the Republic

25 of Bosnia and Herzegovina declared the HZ HB illegal on

Page 203

1 14 September 1992. Neither the self-proclaimed HZ HB,

2 nor the later self-proclaimed Croatian Republic of

3 Herceg-Bosna (HR HB), were ever internationally

4 recognised.

5 5. Article 3 of the HZ HB proclamation of 18

6 November 1991 designated Mostar as the capital of this

7 community. This designation of Mostar as capital of

8 the self-proclaimed Croat community was reaffirmed by

9 the decree issued by the president of HZ HB on 8 April

10 1992, setting up the Croatian Defence Council

11 (hereinafter referred to as HVO) as the supreme

12 executive, administrative, and defence body of

13 Herceg-Bosna, with its headquarters in Mostar; and the

14 decree by such president on 28 August 1993, by which

15 the HZ HB declared itself the HR HB.

16 6. The population of the municipality of

17 Mostar prior to the beginning of the conflict (1991

18 official census) was composed of 126,628 inhabitants,

19 of which 43,856 (34.6 per cent) were Muslims; 43,037

20 (33.9 per cent) were Croats; 23,846 (18.8 per cent)

21 were Serbs; 12,768 (9.9 per cent) were Yugoslavs; and

22 3,121 (2.4 per cent) were others. The city of Mostar

23 is the historical capital and largest city of

24 Herzegovina. The territory of the municipality of

25 Mostar includes, among others, the following districts

Page 204

1 and villages: Rastani, Bijelo Polje, Vojno, Potoci,

2 Rudnik, Ilici, Dzikovina, Panjevina, Rodoc, Podhum,

3 Zahum, and Blagaj.

4 7. At all times during the relevant period,

5 the Army of the Republic of Croatia (HV) backed and

6 supported the HVO and deployed its own units in Mostar

7 and other municipalities of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

8 Among the units that were acting in connection with the

9 authorities of the Republic of Croatia and participated

10 in joint actions with units of the HV was the

11 Kaznjenicka Bojna (Convicts' Battalion, also known as

12 the Punishment Battalion, Tuticeva Brigade, Tutici, or

13 Tuta's men, hereinafter referred to as KB) under the

14 command of Mladen Naletilic.

15 8. As early as October 1992, the HVO

16 launched an attack against the Bosnian Muslim

17 population of the municipality of Prozor.

18 Subsequently, the HV and HVO participated in an armed

19 conflict with the armed forces of the Government of

20 Bosnia and Herzegovina (ABiH) until February 1994.

21 9. In April 1993, the HVO launched a series

22 of attacks against the Bosnian Muslim civilian

23 population, such as the attack of Ahmici on 16 April

24 and others in central Bosnia. At the same time, on 17

25 April 1993, forces of the HV and HVO, including the KB,

Page 205

1 attacked the villages of Sovici and Doljani

2 (municipality of Jablanica) under the overall command

3 of Mladen Naletilic, and carried out the forcible

4 transfer of the Bosnian Muslim population and

5 destruction of their properties. Beginning

6 simultaneously in April 1993, in the Herzegovinian

7 municipalities of Stolac, Capljina, and Mostar, the HVO

8 carried out the arrest of prominent Bosnian Muslims and

9 imposed different measures of persecution against the

10 Bosnian Muslim population, such as dismissals from work

11 positions and public service, discrimination in the

12 delivery of humanitarian aid, attacks against Bosnian

13 Muslim houses and properties, and imposition of Croat

14 language and education.

15 10. On 9 May 1993, the HV and HVO, including

16 the KB, launched a large military offensive against the

17 Bosnian Muslim population of Mostar and the positions

18 of the ABiH in the city, provoking the start of an

19 armed conflict with the ABiH in the municipality of

20 Mostar. Subsequently, the Bosnian Muslim population

21 was the target of a broad campaign of violence in the

22 areas of Mostar occupied by the HV and HVO, lasting at

23 least until the ceasefire and peace agreements of

24 February and March 1994. Across the confrontation

25 line, the ABiH-held section of the city was under siege

Page 206

1 by the HV and HVO forces who were shelling intensely

2 the area and preventing the arrival of humanitarian aid

3 and basic supplies. Mladen Naletilic, as commander of

4 the KB, and Vinko Martinovic, as commander of the

5 "Mrmak" or "Vinko Skrobo" subunit of the KB, were

6 leading perpetrators of this campaign against the

7 Bosnian Muslim population.

8 11. The goal of this campaign by the HV and

9 HVO forces, commonly referred to as "ethnic cleansing",

10 was to gain control of the municipalities of Mostar,

11 Jablanica, and others in Bosnia-Herzegovina, and to

12 force the Bosnian Muslim population to leave these

13 territories or to substantially reduce and subjugate

14 this population. The means used for this purpose

15 included killings, beatings, torture, evictions,

16 destruction of cultural and religious heritage,

17 looting, deprivation of basic civil and human rights,

18 and mass expulsions, detentions and imprisonments, all

19 of them executed following a systematic pattern of

20 ethnic discrimination. As a result of this campaign,

21 tens of thousands of Bosnian Muslims abandoned Mostar,

22 Jablanica, and other municipalities in

23 Bosnia-Herzegovina. The traditional ethnic diversity

24 of these municipalities was virtually eliminated, and

25 an ethnically homogeneous society and institutions were

Page 207

1 imposed in these areas.

2 The Accused.

3 12. Mladen Naletilic, also known as "Tuta",

4 son of Mate and Slavka, was born on 1 December 1946, in

5 Listica-Siroki Brijeg, in the municipality of Siroki

6 Brijeg, Bosnia-Herzegovina. Mladen Naletilic is by

7 birth a Bosnian Croat who later acquired the

8 citizenship of the Republic of Croatia, which he

9 maintains to date. Mladen Naletilic graduated from

10 elementary school. Mladen Naletilic left the Socialist

11 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia in the late 1960s or

12 early 1970s and remained abroad until his return to his

13 country of origin in 1990.

14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam

15 Registrar, would you skip paragraph 13, because that

16 refers only to Mr. Martinovic, and move to paragraph

17 14.

18 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation]

19 Superior Authority.

20 14. At all times material to this

21 indictment, Mladen Naletilic was the commander of the

22 KB, a special unit founded by him on or about June

23 1991. The KB was composed of approximately 200 to 300

24 soldiers grouped in several subunits, called ATG or ATJ

25 (Anti-Terrorist Group or Unit) with bases in the

Page 208

1 municipalities of Mostar, Listica-Siroki Brijeg and

2 Ljubuski. The main tasks of the KB were combat

3 missions on the front line, expulsions and attacks

4 against Bosnian Muslim civilians in the territories

5 under HV and HVO occupation. The KB acted as part of,

6 or in coordination with, the HVO and HV.

7 15. Mladen Naletilic exercised his control

8 in military matters in a manner consistent with the

9 exercise of superior authority, including the

10 development of the organisational structure within the

11 KB. He was involved in the management and control of

12 the finances of the KB. Mladen Naletilic was also in

13 charge of disbursing the salaries of members of the KB;

14 deciding on logistical and tactical matters; ensuring

15 the combat readiness of his troops; planning the

16 preparation and implementation of military operations

17 performed either by the KB alone, or in coordination

18 with other HVO and HV units under the general command

19 of both armies; and coordinating with high-ranking

20 officers of the HZ HB, the HR HB, and the Republic of

21 Croatia.

22 16. Mladen Naletilic exercised his authority

23 over the members of the KB in a direct manner by

24 meeting with his direct subordinates and KB

25 subcommanders on virtually a daily basis, interacting

Page 209

1 with the rank and file soldiers frequently, visiting

2 the different bases of the KB, and acting as a field

3 commander for certain military actions.

4 17. Vinko Martinovic was a commander in the

5 HOS (Croatian Defence Forces) militia in Mostar in 1992

6 and later joined the KB. At all times material to this

7 indictment, Vinko Martinovic was the commander of the

8 KB subunit ATG, Mrmak, later named Vinko Skrobo, and a

9 subordinate to Mladen Naletilic. In a manner

10 consistent with exercise of superior authority, Vinko

11 Martinovic participated in military operations under

12 the command of the KB and in coordination with other

13 HVO and HV units under the general command of both

14 armies. At all times material to this indictment in

15 the city of Mostar, Vinko Martinovic was in command of

16 a section of the front line in the Bulevar street,

17 where the ATG Mrmak, later named Vinko Skrobo, was

18 deployed under his command, and the base and facilities

19 of this unit in the Kalemova street.

20 General Allegations.

21 18. At all times relevant to this

22 indictment, a state of international armed conflict and

23 partial occupation existed on the territory of the

24 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina.

25 19. All acts or omissions set forth as grave

Page 210

1 breaches of the Geneva Conventions of 1949 (hereinafter

2 grave breaches) recognised by Article 2 of the Statute

3 of the Tribunal, occurred during that international

4 armed conflict and partial occupation.

5 20. All of the victims to whom the charges

6 refer, whether they were civilians or prisoners of war,

7 were at all relevant times, persons protected by the

8 Geneva Conventions of 1949.

9 21. In each paragraph charging crimes

10 against humanity, the alleged acts or omissions were

11 part of a widespread, large-scale or systematic attack

12 directed against the Bosnian Muslim population.

13 22. The accused in this indictment were

14 required to abide by the regulations of the laws or

15 customs of war governing the conduct of war, including

16 the Geneva Conventions of 1949.

17 23. Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic

18 are individually responsible for the crimes with which

19 they are charged in this indictment pursuant to Article

20 7(1) of the Statute of the Tribunal. Individual

21 criminal responsibility involves planning, instigating,

22 ordering, committing, or otherwise aiding and abetting

23 in the planning, preparation, or execution of the acts

24 or omissions set forth below.

25 24. Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic

Page 211

1 are also, or alternatively, responsible as superiors

2 for the acts of their subordinates pursuant to Article

3 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal. A superior is

4 responsible for the acts of his subordinates if the

5 superior knew, or had reason to know, that his

6 subordinate was about to commit such acts, or had done

7 so, and the superior failed to take the necessary and

8 reasonable measures to prevent such further acts, or to

9 punish the perpetrators thereof.

10 Charges.

11 Count 1: Persecutions.

12 25. On 17 April 1993, in the municipality of

13 Jablanica, the KB, along with other HV and HVO units,

14 attacked the villages of Sovici and Doljani, and

15 subsequently carried out a forcible transfer of the

16 Bosnian Muslim population, destruction of their

17 properties and destruction of the mosque of Sovici.

18 Mladen Naletilic was the overall commander of this

19 attack and ordered his subordinates to destroy the

20 Bosnian Muslim properties and the mosque of Sovici, to

21 arrest all of the Bosnian Muslim adult males, and to

22 expel and forcibly transfer Bosnian Muslim civilians to

23 the territory under ABiH control.

24 26. In the municipality of Mostar, the

25 forcible transfer and imprisonment of Bosnian Muslim

Page 212

1 civilians started simultaneously with the HV and HVO

2 attack of 9 May 1993 and continued until at least

3 January 1994. However, there were two large waves of

4 forcible transfers and imprisonment: one in the days

5 following the 9 May 1993 attack, and a second during

6 the first days of July 1993. Once the KB and other HVO

7 units had identified persons of Muslim ethnic

8 background, they arrested them, evicted them, plundered

9 their homes and forcibly transferred them to detention

10 centres under HVO authority, or across the

11 confrontation lines to the territories under ABiH

12 control.

13 27. Between April 1993 and until at least

14 January 1994, thousands of Bosnian Muslim civilians

15 were interned in the detention centres under HVO

16 authority in the area of Mostar and neighbouring

17 municipalities. Beatings, torture, killings, were

18 common and persistent in these detention facilities.

19 28. The Heliodrom compound, located in

20 Rodoc, municipality of Mostar, was the main detention

21 centre in the area. Bosnian Muslim civilians and

22 prisoners of war arrested under the command of Mladen

23 Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic were interned in the

24 Heliodrom. Members of the KB mistreated and tortured

25 Bosnian Muslim detainees at the Heliodrom.

Page 213

1 Furthermore, throughout the relevant period,

2 subordinates to Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic

3 regularly took detainees from the Heliodrom to the

4 front lines to force them to perform labour and use

5 them as human shields.

6 29. Throughout this period, Mladen Naletilic

7 visited on numerous occasions the Heliodrom camp and

8 had knowledge of the existence of Bosnian Muslim

9 civilian prisoners, and the inhumane conditions of this

10 camp and the mistreatment of detainees. Mladen

11 Naletilic was in contact with the commanders of the

12 Heliodrom, had access to the main facilities of the

13 compound, and exerted command over the KB troops based

14 in the compound.

15 30. In the Kalemova street of the city of

16 Mostar, the KB maintained the base of the subunit

17 called ATG Mrmak, later named Vinko Skrobo, under the

18 command of Vinko Martinovic. Bosnian Muslim detainees

19 were kept in this base, which was used as a centre for

20 the attacks against Bosnian Muslim civilians,

21 particularly evictions, looting, expulsions across the

22 front lines, and use of detainees for forced labour and

23 human shield purposes. Mladen Naletilic regularly

24 visited these premises to meet Vinko Martinovic and

25 other KB members.

Page 214

1 31. Mladen Naletilic knew of the existence

2 of detention centres in Mostar and neighbouring

3 municipalities other than the Heliodrom in which

4 Bosnian Muslim civilians were interned and mistreated.

5 In particular, Mladen Naletilic had knowledge of the

6 detention centres located in the municipality of

7 Listica-Siroki Brijeg, such as the primary school of

8 Dobrkovici, the MUP police station, and the bases of

9 the KB in Listica-Siroki Brijeg, Ljubuski, and Mostar,

10 where Bosnian Muslims were also detained. Bosnian

11 Muslim detainees of the primary school of Dobrkovici

12 were forced to work in Mladen Naletilic's private

13 estate.

14 32. Under the command of Mladen Naletilic

15 and Vinko Martinovic, the KB forcibly transferred

16 Bosnian Muslim civilians to the confrontation line in

17 the municipality of Mostar and forced them to cross the

18 confrontation line towards the ABiH side. Mladen

19 Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic gave orders to expel the

20 Bosnian Muslim population and loot and destroy their

21 houses and properties.

22 33. Throughout this period, Mladen Naletilic

23 and Vinko Martinovic repeatedly tortured Bosnian Muslim

24 detainees, ordered their subordinates to torture

25 Bosnian Muslims, and by their example instigated their

Page 215

1 subordinates to commit and carry out torture. Severe

2 physical and mental suffering was intentionally

3 inflicted on Bosnian Muslims for the following

4 purposes: to obtain from them information; to punish

5 them; to retaliate due to adverse developments in the

6 front lines; to intimidate them; or based on their

7 ethnicity or religion.

8 34. Between about April 1993 and at least

9 January 1994, Mladen Naletilic, as commander of the KB,

10 and Vinko Martinovic, as commander of the "Mrmak" or

11 "Vinko Skrobo" subunit of the KB, together with other

12 leaders, agents, and members of the HV and HVO,

13 planned, instigated, ordered or committed, or aided and

14 abetted the planning, preparation, or execution of a

15 crime against humanity, through the widespread or

16 systematic persecutions of Bosnian Muslim civilians on

17 political, racial, ethnic or religious grounds,

18 throughout the territory claimed to belong to the HZ HB

19 and HR HB by the following means, including, as

20 applicable, the acts and conduct described in Counts 2

21 through 22 below:

22 (A) unlawfully confining, detaining, forcibly

23 transferring and deporting Bosnian Muslim civilians,

24 including as described in paragraphs 53 and 54;

25 (B) subjecting Bosnian Muslims to torture and

Page 216

1 inhumane acts, inhuman and cruel treatment, murdering

2 and wilfully killing them, wilfully causing them great

3 suffering, using them to perform unlawful and forced

4 labour, including on the confrontation lines in Mostar,

5 and using them as human shields, which in some

6 instances resulted in their death, including as

7 describe in paragraphs 35 to 52;

8 (C) destroying and wantonly devastating

9 Bosnian Muslim dwellings and buildings, including as

10 described in paragraphs 55, 56, and 58; and

11 (D) plundering public and private property of

12 Bosnian Muslims, including as described in paragraph 57

13 By these acts and omissions, Mladen Naletilic

14 and Vinko Martinovic committed:

15 Count 1: persecutions on political, racial,

16 and religious grounds, a crime against humanity, as

17 recognised by Articles 5(h), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

18 Statute of the Tribunal.

19 Counts 2 to 8: unlawful labour and human

20 shields as inhumane treatment and wilfull killing.

21 35. Between about April 1993 and at least

22 through January 1994, Mladen Naletilic, Vinko

23 Martinovic and their subordinates forced Bosnian Muslim

24 detainees from the various detention centres under the

25 authority of the HVO to perform labour in military

Page 217

1 operations and to be used as human shields on the

2 Bulevar and Santiceva streets; Rastani; Stotina; and

3 other locations along the front line in the

4 municipality of Mostar.

5 36. Following the HV and HVO attack on the

6 city of Mostar on 9 May 1993, the confrontation line

7 with the ABiH was settled along the Bulevar and

8 Santiceva streets. From May 1993 to February 1994, the

9 KB was engaged in fighting along the Bulevar and

10 Santiceva streets and had control over particular

11 sections of this confrontation line. This

12 confrontation line was both the scene of intense

13 small-arms fire and artillery exchanges between the

14 opposing factions, and it was the main site to which

15 Bosnian Muslim prisoners were taken to perform forced

16 labour and to be used as human shields.

17 37. From May 1993 through at least January

18 1994, on a regular basis, detainees were taken from the

19 Heliodrom camp and other detention centres to the bases

20 of the KB, in the city of Mostar, for eventual transfer

21 to the confrontation lines. The detainees were forced,

22 at great risk to their lives, to perform various

23 dangerous military support tasks benefitting the HV and

24 HVO; including: digging trenches, building defenses

25 with sandbags, carrying wounded or killed HV or HVO

Page 218

1 soldiers, carrying ammunition and explosives across the

2 confrontation line, and placing them in front of the

3 ABiH positions. These tasks were often performed by

4 the detainees under conditions which exposed them

5 directly to hostile fire, and thereby served the

6 purpose of protecting HVO soldiers. Consequently, the

7 detainees were turned into human shields. On other

8 occasions, the KB used detainees exclusively to protect

9 the KB and other HV and HVO soldiers from hostile fire

10 or to attract hostile fire on the detainees in order to

11 ascertain the ABiH positions.

12 38. The circumstances of intense fire

13 exchange and the direct exposure of the detainees and

14 prisoners to such fire, adding to the short distance

15 between the two warring factions, presented a high

16 likelihood of death or serious injury to the detainees

17 and prisoners. Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic

18 were aware of these circumstances. The knowing

19 exposure of the Bosnian Muslim detainees to these

20 conditions resulted in their inhumane treatment and, in

21 some instances, injuries and death.

22 39. From May 1993 to January 1994, Mladen

23 Naletilic repeatedly visited the Heliodrom camp and the

24 bases of the KB in the city of Mostar, where he met his

25 subordinates and detainees. Mladen Naletilic had

Page 219

1 knowledge of the use of prisoners and detainees for

2 forced labour and human shields and was also aware of

3 the resulting injuries and death.

4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam

5 Registrar, you can move to paragraph 43, since the

6 others refer only to Mr. Martinovic. Resume with

7 paragraph 43.

8 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation]

9 43. On 23 September 1993, Mladen Naletilic

10 commanded an attack by the KB on the village of

11 Rastani, municipality of Mostar. In the course of the

12 attack Bosnian Muslim detainees taken from the

13 Heliodrom were forced to walk in front of the attacking

14 forces, and to enter and search enemy positions. The

15 detainees were forced to perform these tasks exposed to

16 the ongoing exchange of fire at great risk to their

17 lives.

18 44. Throughout this period, Mladen

19 Naletilic, Vinko Martinovic and their subordinates also

20 forced Bosnian Muslim detainees to perform labour in

21 locations other than the front lines. The Bosnian

22 Muslim detainees were forced, inter alia, to engage and

23 participate in the following works: building,

24 maintenance, and reparation works in private properties

25 of the members and commanders of the KB; digging

Page 220

1 trenches, building defenses in the positions of the KB

2 or other HV and HVO forces; and assisting the KB

3 members in the process of looting houses and properties

4 of Bosnian Muslims.

5 By these acts and omissions, Mladen Naletilic

6 and Vinko Martinovic committed:

7 Count 2: inhumane acts, a crime against

8 humanity, as recognised by Articles 5(i), 7(1) and 7(3)

9 of the Statute of the Tribunal.

10 Count 3: inhumane treatment, a grave breach

11 of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, as recognised by

12 Articles 2(b) and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

13 Tribunal.

14 Count 4: cruel treatment, a violation of the

15 laws or customs of war under Statute Article 3 as

16 recognised by Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions

17 and Statute Articles 7(1) and 7(3).

18 Count 5: unlawful labour, a violation of the

19 laws or customs of war under Statute Article 3 as

20 recognised by Article 51 of Geneva Convention IV and

21 Articles 49 and 50 of Geneva Convention III, and

22 Statute Articles 7(1) and 7(3).

23 Count 6: murder, a crime against humanity,

24 as recognised by Articles 5(a), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

25 Statute of the Tribunal.

Page 221

1 Count 7: wilful killing, a grave breach of

2 the Geneva Conventions of 1949, as recognised by

3 Articles 2(a), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

4 Tribunal.

5 Count 8: murder, a violation of the law or

6 customs of war under Statute Article 3 as recognised by

7 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions, and Statute

8 Articles 7(1) and 7(3).

9 Counts 9 to 12: Torture and wilfully causing

10 great suffering.

11 45. Beginning in May 1993 and at least

12 through January 1994, Mladen Naletilic, Vinko

13 Martinovic, and their subordinates tortured or wilfully

14 caused great suffering to Bosnian Muslim civilians and

15 prisoners of war captured by the KB or detained under

16 the authority of the HVO. Severe physical and mental

17 suffering was intentionally inflicted on Bosnian Muslim

18 detainees for the following purposes: to obtain from

19 them information; to punish them; to retaliate due to

20 adverse developments in the front lines; or to

21 intimidate them, based on their ethnicity or religion.

22 Throughout this period, Mladen Naletilic and Vinko

23 Martinovic repeatedly committed, aided and abetted

24 torture, wilfully caused great suffering, and by their

25 example instigated and encouraged their subordinates to

Page 222

1 torture or cause great suffering on Bosnian Muslim

2 detainees.

3 46. Mladen Naletilic committed and

4 instigated the commission of torture or the infliction

5 of great suffering on Bosnian Muslim detainees on 20

6 April 1993, following the attack against the Bosnian

7 Muslim population of Sovici and Doljani carried out by

8 HV and HVO forces under his overall command.

9 47. In the context of the preparations of

10 the HV and HVO attack on Mostar, on 7 May 1993,

11 unidentified members of the KB arrested in Mostar

12 Witness "B", whom at the time was a prominent figure

13 within the Bosnian Muslim community, and took him to a

14 base of the KB in Listica-Siroki Brijeg. At that base

15 Mladen Naletilic and his subordinates tortured Witness

16 "B", causing severe injuries.

17 48. Following the HV and HVO attack on

18 Mostar on 10 May 1993, Mladen Naletilic physically

19 assaulted Witness "M", who was a prisoner of war

20 captured in Mostar by Mladen Naletilic's subordinates.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam

22 Registrar, you can move to paragraph 49 -- rather, to

23 50.

24 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation]

25 50. Throughout this period, the beatings and

Page 223

1 torture of Bosnian Muslim civilians and prisoners of

2 war became a common practice of the members of the KB.

3 Beatings and torture of Bosnian Muslim civilians and

4 prisoners of war were committed by a large number of

5 members of the KB, including commanders. These

6 beatings and tortures were committed at different bases

7 of the KB in Mostar, Listica-Siroki Brijeg, and

8 Ljubuski. Beatings and tortures were also inflicted at

9 other detention centres and camps under the authority

10 of the HVO, such as the Ljubuski prison and the

11 Heliodrom camp. Beatings and tortures were

12 additionally inflicted at several other locations

13 following the capture of prisoners. Mladen Naletilic

14 and Vinko Martinovic knew, or had reason to know, that

15 their subordinates were about to commit such acts, or

16 had done so, and they failed to take the necessary and

17 reasonable measures to prevent such further acts, or to

18 punish the perpetrators thereof.

19 By these acts and omissions, Mladen Naletilic

20 and Vinko Martinovic committed:

21 Count 9: torture, a crime against humanity,

22 under Articles 5(f), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of

23 the Tribunal.

24 Count 10: torture, a grave breach of the

25 Geneva Conventions of 1949, under Statute Article 2(b),

Page 224

1 and 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

2 Count 11: cruel treatment, a violation of

3 the laws or customs of war, under Statute Article 3 as

4 recognised by Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva

5 Conventions, and Articles 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute

6 of the Tribunal.

7 Count 12: wilfully causing great suffering

8 or serious injury to body or health, a grave breach of

9 the Geneva Conventions of 1949, under Articles 2(c),

10 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Madam

12 Registrar, please move now to paragraph 53, that is,

13 Count 18. The others have to do only with

14 Mr. Martinovic.

15 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation]

16 Count 18: Forcible transfer.

17 53. On about 17 April 1993, following the

18 plans and under the overall command of Mladen

19 Naletilic, the KB, along with other HV and HVO forces,

20 attacked the villages of Sovici and Doljani in the

21 municipality of Jablanica. After the capture of

22 Sovici, the attacking forces forcibly interned several

23 hundreds of Bosnian Muslim civilians in the local

24 primary school on 18 and 19 April 1993. On the

25 following days, the forces under the command of Mladen

Page 225

1 Naletilic confined the whole of the Bosnian Muslim

2 civilian population of Sovici, around 450 women,

3 children, and elderly, to the hamlet of Junuzovici, and

4 forcibly transferred them subsequently to the territory

5 of Gornji Vakuf under the control of the ABiH.

6 54. In the municipality of Mostar, Mladen

7 Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic were responsible for and

8 ordered the forcible transfer of Bosnian Muslim

9 civilians that started on 9 May 1993 and continued

10 until at least January 1994. The KB members under his

11 command were prominent in the eviction, arrest, and

12 forcible transfers of Bosnian Muslim civilians

13 throughout the relevant period, and particularly during

14 the two large waves of forcible transfers that took

15 place in May and July 1993. Once the KB and other HVO

16 units had identified persons of Muslim ethnic

17 background, they arrested them, evicted them, plundered

18 their homes, and forcibly transferred them across the

19 confrontation lines to the territories under ABiH

20 control. The ABiH held a section of the city which was

21 under siege by the HV and HVO forces, who were shelling

22 intensely the area and preventing the arrival of

23 humanitarian aid and basic supplies. Mladen Naletilic

24 and Vinko Martinovic commanded operations for this

25 purpose and gave orders to their subordinates to

Page 226

1 proceed with the forcible transfers.

2 By these acts or omissions, Mladen Naletilic

3 and Vinko Martinovic committed:

4 Count 18: unlawful transfer of a civilian, a

5 grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of 1949, as

6 recognised by Articles 2(g), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

7 Statute of the Tribunal.

8 Counts 19 to 22: Destruction and plunder of

9 property.

10 55. Following the capture of Sovici and

11 Doljani on 17 April 1993, Mladen Naletilic ordered the

12 destruction of all the Bosnian Muslim houses in the

13 area. The systematic destruction of the Bosnian Muslim

14 houses was carried out by the forces under the

15 authority of Mladen Naletilic, who at the relevant time

16 was in command over the area occupied by the HV and HVO

17 forces.

18 56. Following the capture of Sovici and

19 Doljani on 17 April 1993, Mladen Naletilic ordered the

20 destruction of the mosque of Sovici. The mosque was

21 destroyed by the forces under the authority of Mladen

22 Naletilic, who at the relevant time was in command over

23 the area occupied by the HV and HVO forces.

24 57. Following the HV and HVO attack on

25 Mostar of 9 May 1993, and in the context of the

Page 227

1 subsequent campaign of persecutions against the Bosnian

2 Muslim population, the units under the command of

3 Mladen Naletilic and Vinko Martinovic plundered

4 systematically the Bosnian Muslim houses and

5 properties.

6 58. Following the capture of the village of

7 Rastani, municipality of Mostar on 23 September 1993,

8 the forces under the command of Mladen Naletilic

9 destroyed the Bosnian Muslim houses of the village.

10 By these acts and omissions, Mladen Naletilic

11 and Vinko Martinovic committed:

12 Count 19: extensive destruction of property,

13 a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions, recognised by

14 Articles 2(d), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

15 Tribunal.

16 Count 20: wanton destruction not justified

17 by military necessity, a violation of the laws or

18 customs of war, as recognised by Articles 3(b), 7(1)

19 and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

20 Count 21: plunder of public or private

21 property, a violation of the laws or customs of war, as

22 recognised by Articles 3(e), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

23 Statute of the Tribunal.

24 Count 22: seizure, destruction, or wilful

25 damage done to institutions dedicated to religion, a

Page 228

1 violation of the laws or customs of war, as recognised

2 by Articles 3(d), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

3 Tribunal.

4 The Prosecutor, Louise Arbour, dated this the

5 18th day of December, 1998, The Hague, the

6 Netherlands. I repeat: Dated the 18th day of

7 December, 1998, The Hague, the Netherlands.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

9 very much, Madam Registrar. This was the time to ask

10 Mr. Naletilic whether he was pleading guilty or not

11 guilty, but the Defence has told us that it wishes that

12 moment to be postponed. I think that refers to Rule 62

13 (iii):

14 "within 30 days of the Initial Appearance…"

15 And therefore, the Trial Chamber will postpone the time for

16 pleading guilty or not guilty ...

17 [Trial Chamber confers with legal officer]

18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me.

19 I think that Mr. Naletilic wants to say something.

20 Mr. Krsnik, could you tell us what it is that

21 your client wants to say.

22 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes. My client

23 would like to plea, to make a plea, and this is what he

24 just told me.

25 [The accused stands]

Page 229

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well.

2 So that things be clear: Mr. Krsnik, is your client in

3 a position to plead guilty or not guilty today?

4 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Your Honour,

5 this is his decision. He obviously feels capable of

6 pleading about his guilt today.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Let me turn

8 to Mr. Naletilic. Do you feel, yourself, capable of

9 pleading guilty or not guilty today?

10 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well.

12 We're going to do that immediately. We are going to

13 have to go back to the indictment, and it's going to

14 take a little longer, because we have to read each of

15 the counts in order to know whether Mr. Naletilic is

16 going to plead guilty or not guilty, because he cannot

17 simply state in general terms that he pleads guilty or

18 not. We're doing all of this -- well, rather, we had

19 done this with the idea of postponing the plea of

20 guilty or not guilty, but now that Mr. Naletilic has

21 changed his mind -- and you have the right to do so

22 today, as you have the right to do 30 days from now.

23 Madam Registrar, since we have already read

24 the indictment, as we have read the indictment, we are

25 going to read only the counts; that is, Madam

Page 230

1 Registrar, please read the parts of the indictment. On

2 page 10, please read Count 1.

3 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation]

4 Count 1: persecutions on political, racial,

5 and religious grounds, a crime against humanity, as

6 recognised by Articles 5(h), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

7 Statute of the Tribunal.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

9 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

10 that count?

11 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] First

12 of all, Your Honours, I would like to thank my

13 attorney, Krsnik, as well as Madam Carla del Ponte.

14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I must

15 interrupt you. I'm not receiving the interpretation at

16 this point. Now I'm getting it, but I wasn't a minute

17 ago. Excuse me, Mr. Naletilic.

18 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] No

19 problem. No problem. So I would like to thank my

20 attorney for his concern about my health. I would like

21 to thank the Prosecutor, Carla del Ponte, that she

22 trusts me, obviously, that I can endure this, including

23 the plea today; and as far as my children, the KB unit

24 and the members of my --

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me

Page 231

1 for interrupting you. Excuse me. Mr. Naletilic,

2 excuse me. At the end of this hearing, you will be

3 able to speak. Now I have simply asked you whether you

4 plead guilty or not guilty, and you must answer only "I

5 plead guilty" or "I plead not guilty."

6 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] If it

7 is a crime to defend one's own country, then I am

8 guilty. If it is not, then I'm not guilty. But let me

9 tell you just one thing, in respect of everything: I

10 ask of this Tribunal to take a lie detector --

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me,

12 Mr. Naletilic. Excuse me.

13 Mr. Krsnik --

14 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] May I

15 sit down? Because I do not feel so well.

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Yes. You

17 may be seated.

18 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] I

19 will sit down. Thank you.

20 [The accused sits down]

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

22 Mr. Naletilic, I must warn you and remind you that I've

23 asked you a question, that you must answer only by

24 stating that you plead guilty or you do not plead

25 guilty, that's all, and you must answer me now. Answer

Page 232

1 to Count 1 that Madam Registrar has read out. Do you

2 plead guilty or not guilty?

3 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Sir,

4 that is not how I can plead. This is not a way that I

5 can plead. That is, I do not have to; the only thing I

6 have to do is die.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Krsnik,

8 have you explained to your client what a plea of guilty

9 or not guilty is?

10 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Of course I

11 did. I'm sorry. Yes, Your Honour, but my client

12 believes that this is also a form in which he can

13 plead. He would like to say that he is not guilty, but

14 he chose to say it in this way.

15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Krsnik,

16 we're going to take a break, a 15-minute break, and you

17 are going to carefully explain to Mr. Naletilic,

18 because otherwise I cannot continue. A 15-minute break

19 to explain to Mr. Naletilic what his obligations before

20 this Tribunal are. We will return in 15 minutes.

21 --- Break taken at 4.53 p.m.

22 --- On resuming at 5.53 p.m.

23 [The accused entered court]

24 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Mr. Krsnik,

25 what's the situation?

Page 233

1 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Your Honours, my

2 client felt ill and he did not have his medicine, which

3 is nitroglycerin, but it has since been provided to

4 him, his condition has been stabilised, and we can

5 proceed.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well.

7 Have you explained to your client what a plea of guilty

8 or not guilty is all about?

9 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, I did

10 explain it to him, and my client understands it. But

11 the situation that we found ourselves in, perhaps, has

12 confused him a little bit, so my apologies for that

13 too.

14 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

15 very much, Mr. Krsnik, for your understanding. As you

16 know, right from the beginning, I said that the accused

17 can plead guilty for one count and plead not guilty for

18 other counts, it's up to him. I would like to remind

19 you and to tell you that the Chamber is aware that

20 Mr. Naletilic comes from a very different judicial

21 system than the one we have here, and maybe he had

22 other expectations. That's why I told him that, when I

23 asked him if he pleads guilty or not guilty, he has to

24 answer "guilty" or "not guilty," and at the end of the

25 hearing, he will have the opportunity to speak if he

Page 234

1 wants to add something and make a statement.

2 Mr. Naletilic, will you rise, please.

3 [The accused stands]

4 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Have you

5 understood what I've just explained to Mr. Krsnik?

6 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Are you

8 able to plead guilty or not guilty for the various

9 counts of the indictment?

10 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Thank you

12 very much, Mr. Naletilic.

13 I'm going to ask Mr. Marc Dubuisson, ask the

14 registrar, to read out Count 1 of the indictment.

15 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 1:

16 persecutions on political, racial, and religious

17 grounds, a crime against humanity, as recognised by

18 Articles 5(h), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

19 Tribunal.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

21 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

22 Count 1, to this count?

23 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

24 guilty.

25 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Now I'm

Page 235

1 going to ask the registrar to read out Count 2.

2 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 2:

3 inhumane acts, a crime against humanity, as recognised

4 by Articles 5(i), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

5 Tribunal.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

7 Mr. Naletilic, for this count, Count 2, do you plead

8 guilty or not guilty?

9 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] No.

10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 3,

11 Mr. Dubuisson.

12 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 3:

13 inhuman treatment, a grave breach of the Geneva

14 Conventions of 1949, as recognised by Articles 2(b),

15 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

17 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

18 this count, to Count 3?

19 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] I am

20 not guilty.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Very well.

22 Count 4.

23 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 4:

24 cruel treatment, a violation of the laws or customs of

25 war, under Statute Article 3, as recognised by Article

Page 236

1 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions and Statute Articles

2 7(1) and 7(3).

3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

4 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

5 Count 4?

6 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] No,

7 not guilty.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

9 Mr. Registrar, Count 5.

10 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 5:

11 unlawful labour, a violation of the laws or customs of

12 war, under Statute Article 3, as recognised by Article

13 51 of Geneva Convention IV and Articles 49 and 50 of

14 Geneva Convention III, and Statute Articles 7(1) and

15 7(3).

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

17 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty with

18 regard to Count 5?

19 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

20 guilty.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 6,

22 Mr. Dubuisson.

23 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 6:

24 murder, a crime against humanity, as recognised by

25 Articles 5(a), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

Page 237

1 Tribunal.

2 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

3 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty with

4 regard to Count 6?

5 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

6 guilty.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 7,

8 Mr. Dubuisson.

9 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 7:

10 wilful killing, a grave breach of the Geneva

11 Conventions of 1949, as recognised by Articles 2(a),

12 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

14 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

15 Count 7?

16 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation]

17 Mr. President, may I say something? I am not clear

18 whether this is a war with a soldier or something

19 else. Is this something relating to the combat? No.

20 I don't know. But otherwise, no. But if you're

21 referring to combat, of course, I took part in 100

22 battles. So this is what is not clear to me. I don't

23 know if you mean "wilful." I don't know what it refers

24 to. In order to defend my homeland, yes, I'm prepared

25 to do that.

Page 238

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

2 Mr. Naletilic, I'm going to give Mr. Krsnik two minutes

3 to explain to you what is happening.

4 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation]

5 Okay. Okay.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

7 Mr. Naletilic, I don't want you to answer without

8 having understood.

9 At the beginning of the hearing, you told us

10 that you had understood the indictment. I asked your

11 counsel if he had explained to you what it was all

12 about, and he said yes. Now, as I've said earlier on,

13 you only have to answer for each count whether you

14 plead guilty or not guilty to this specific count. So

15 since you told us that you did not understand, I'm

16 going to ask Mr. Dubuisson to read Count 7 once again.

17 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 7:

18 wilful killing, a grave breach of the Geneva

19 Conventions of 1949, as recognised by Articles 2(a),

20 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

22 Mr. Naletilic, I am asking you whether you plead guilty

23 or not guilty to Count 7.

24 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

25 guilty.

Page 239

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

2 Mr. Dubuisson, Count 8.

3 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 8:

4 murder, a violation of the laws or customs of war,

5 under Statute Article 3, as recognised by Article

6 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions, and Statute Articles

7 7(1) and 7(3).

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

9 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

10 Count 8?

11 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

12 guilty.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 10,

14 Mr. Dubuisson.

15 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Actually,

16 it's number 9.

17 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Excuse me.

18 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 9:

19 torture, a crime against humanity, under Articles 5(f),

20 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

22 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

23 Count 9?

24 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

25 guilty.

Page 240

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 10,

2 Mr. Registrar.

3 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 10:

4 torture, a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of

5 1949, under Statute Article 2(b), and 7(1) and 7(3) of

6 the Statute of the Tribunal.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

8 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

9 Count 10?

10 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

11 guilty.

12 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Count 11,

13 Mr. Dubuisson.

14 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 11:

15 cruel treatment, a violation of the laws or customs of

16 war, under Statute Article 3, as recognised by Article

17 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions and Articles 7(1) and

18 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

19 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

20 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty?

21 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

22 guilty.

23 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

24 Mr. Dubuisson.

25 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 12:

Page 241

1 wilfully causing great suffering or serious injury to

2 body or health, a grave breach of the Geneva

3 Conventions of 1949, under Articles 2(c), 7(1) and 7(3)

4 of the Statute of the Tribunal.

5 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

6 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

7 Count 12?

8 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

9 guilty.

10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

11 Mr. Dubuisson.

12 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 18:

13 unlawful transfer of a civilian, a grave breach of the

14 Geneva Conventions of 1949, as recognised by Articles

15 2(g), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

17 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

18 Count 18?

19 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

20 guilty.

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

22 Mr. Dubuisson.

23 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 19:

24 extensive destruction of property, a grave breach of

25 the Geneva Conventions [of 1949], recognised by

Page 242

1 Articles 2(d), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the

2 Tribunal.

3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

4 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

5 Count 19?

6 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

7 guilty.

8 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

9 Mr. Dubuisson.

10 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 20:

11 wanton destruction not justified by military necessity,

12 a violation of the laws or customs of war, as

13 recognised by Articles 3(b), 7(1) and 7(3) of the

14 Statute of the Tribunal.

15 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

16 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

17 Count 20?

18 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

19 guilty.

20 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

21 Mr. Dubuisson.

22 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 21:

23 plunder of public or private property, a violation of

24 the laws or customs of war, as recognised by Articles

25 3(e), 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

Page 243

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

2 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

3 Count 21.

4 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

5 guilty.

6 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

7 Mr. Dubuisson.

8 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Count 22:

9 seizure, destruction or wilful damage done to

10 institutions dedicated to religion, a violation of the

11 laws or customs of war, as recognised by Articles 3(d),

12 7(1) and 7(3) of the Statute of the Tribunal.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation]

14 Mr. Naletilic, do you plead guilty or not guilty to

15 Count 22?

16 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Not

17 guilty.

18 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You may sit

19 down, Mr. Naletilic.

20 [The accused sits down]

21 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] We have

22 taken note of the fact that Mr. Naletilic has pleaded

23 not guilty to all counts.

24 Mr. Registrar, I would like you to note that

25 Mr. Naletilic has pleaded not guilty for all counts of

Page 244

1 the indictment.

2 THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] Yes.

3 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Now I'm

4 going to ask the OTP about Rule 66, to know what the

5 situation is in terms of disclosure.

6 MS. DEL PONTE: [Interpretation] Yes,

7 Mr. President. We have filed a motion for witness

8 protection. We are ready to submit all the supporting

9 material to the indictment right now; we can supply

10 that to the Defence right now.

11 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So if I

12 understand correctly, it's once you get the order for

13 the protection of witnesses.

14 MS. DEL PONTE: [Interpretation] Yes,

15 exactly.

16 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Now I'm

17 going to ask Mr. Krsnik whether you are aware of this

18 motion for the protection of witnesses.

19 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, I'm aware

20 of it, and I have already conducted a discussion with

21 my learned colleagues from the Prosecution.

22 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] Do you have

23 any objection to this motion, or do you agree with it?

24 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] We agree to that

25 motion.

Page 245

1 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You're not

2 obliged to agree.

3 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] Yes, I know that

4 I can, but I don't see a purpose for it. This is why I

5 agree to it, because it doesn't violate anything on our

6 side.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] So I

8 understand correctly, you don't have any objections to

9 the motion of the Prosecutor; is that right?

10 MR. KRSNIK: [Interpretation] With respect to

11 the protection of witnesses, of course, because I see

12 no reason why we would not agree to this request.

13 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The Trial

14 Chamber decides to grant protective measures right now,

15 as part of an oral ruling, and thus it will make it

16 possible for the Prosecutor to communicate, transmit,

17 all the documents, and later on we'll have a written

18 ruling. But we take this decision, we make this oral

19 ruling, in order to speed things up. You have the

20 decision of the Trial Chamber. We agree, we grant the

21 protective measures, but the Chamber will issue a

22 written ruling once we have received a written request,

23 and then we'll wait to see the evolution of the

24 proceedings.

25 As you know, Judge Wald is the Pre-Trial

Page 246

1 Judge, and she will set the date for the next Status

2 Conference.

3 Right now, before adjourning the proceedings,

4 I am going to turn to Mr. Naletilic. Can you please

5 rise?

6 [The accused stands]

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] I am now

8 going to give you the opportunity to make a statement

9 about your detention and your health, and I'm going to

10 ask you whether there is any other statement you want

11 to make now. You have the floor, Mr. Naletilic. You

12 now have the opportunity to speak about your detention

13 conditions, about your health, and you can make any

14 other statements you wish to make.

15 THE ACCUSED NALETILIC: [Interpretation] Your

16 Honour, as far as the detention is concerned, this, for

17 me, is a hotel of a "B" category in comparison to where

18 I'm coming from, and as far as my health is concerned,

19 I'm mentally fit. Now, whether there is fear, like,

20 when we misunderstood each other, this is what I really

21 had to say. I am aware of my health condition. The

22 top experts have laid it out very clearly for me, what

23 it looks like. But for the very reason that it is

24 critical, I have requested of this Trial Chamber, in

25 case of my death, I asked for a lie detector, because I

Page 247

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3

4

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6

7

8

9

10

11

12

13 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds beteween

14 the French and English transcripts.

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

 

Page 248

1 think that was a standard procedure in the US, so that

2 if my brain is not working and if there is any guilt,

3 it will be shown, and it will help me in my future

4 life. This very fact will assist me, so that I will

5 live better knowing that I can be submitted to a lie

6 detector.

7 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] You may sit

8 down.

9 [The accused sits down]

10 JUDGE RODRIGUES: [Interpretation] The Trial

11 Chamber cannot give you any guarantee as to whether

12 they are going to grant this procedure. We are going

13 to conduct the proceedings as is usually done in this

14 Tribunal.

15 Now, we've heard Mr. Naletilic, I don't think

16 there is any other issue to deal with, and we'll wait

17 for the Chamber, through Judge Wald, we'll wait for the

18 Chamber to set the date for the next Status

19 Conference.

20 I'm going to adjourn the proceeding now, and

21 I'm going to wish you a very pleasant weekend.

22 --- Whereupon the Initial Appearance

23 adjourned at 6.15 p.m.

24

25