Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 10007

 1                           Wednesday, 24 February 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           --- Upon commencing at 2.17 p.m.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good afternoon to everybody in and around the

 6     courtroom.

 7             Mr. Registrar, will you please call the case.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Thank you and good afternoon, Your Honours.  This

 9     is case number IT-04-81-T, the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Perisic.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

11             Could we have the appearances for the day starting with the

12     Prosecution, please.

13             MR. SAXON:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  For the Prosecution,

14     Mark Harmon, Dan Saxon, and soon to join us Carmela Javier.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

16             And for the Defence.

17             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.  Good

18     afternoon to all the participants in the proceedings.  Mr. Perisic is

19     being represented today by Novak Lukic, Gregor Guy-Smith, and our

20     collaborator Mr. Boris Zorko.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Lukic.

22             Good afternoon, Mr. Simic, I hope you had a restful night last

23     night.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

25     Thank you.  Yes, I did have a good night's rest.

Page 10008

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much.  Just to remind you,

 2     Mr. Simic, that you are still bound by the declaration you made at the

 3     beginning of your testimony to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

 4     nothing else but the truth.

 5             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That is very clear to me,

 6     Your Honours.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 8             Mr. Lukic.

 9                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Before you stand up, Mr. Lukic, thank you so much,

11     Mr. Registrar, just for the record to show that the Chamber is still

12     sitting pursuant to Rule 15 bis in the absence of Judge Picard.

13             Mr. Lukic.

14                           WITNESS:  MIODRAG SIMIC [Resumed]

15                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

16                           Examination by Mr. Lukic: [Continued]

17        Q.   [Interpretation] General, once more let me say good afternoon to

18     you personally.

19        A.   Good afternoon.

20        Q.   We will continue today, and we'll address a new topic upon which

21     I will dwell for some time, and that topic is the operative centre of the

22     General Staff of the VJ.  While we were dealing with the general issues,

23     you mentioned the operative centre in connection with the first

24     administration, and we showed what that centre is.  Let me now be more

25     specific.  How was the operative centre organised?  You said that there

Page 10009

 1     were duty shifts around-the-clock.  How did that function exactly?

 2        A.   The operative centre of the General Staff of the Army of

 3     Yugoslavia is one of the organisational units of the first administration

 4     of the sector for operations and staff affairs.  It consisted of 15

 5     persons, 13 of which were colonels, and there were two civilians there as

 6     well.  Duty services organised in shifts.  Three persons per shift and

 7     each shift is headed by a shift leader, so that is four shifts.  Four

 8     times three, 12, and the chief of the centre is number 13.  The basic

 9     function of the operations centre of the General Staff of the Army of

10     Yugoslavia is to have round-the-clock duty availing itself of technical

11     resources in the field of communications, thereby gathering information

12     through reports from units that are their immediate subordinates, or

13     rather, units that are subordinated directly to the Chief of General

14     Staff.

15             Also, there is a communications system linking it to the other

16     organs of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, such as the ministry, the

17     customs office, the Ministry of the Interior.  Information is gathered

18     from them as well, and then all of that is assessed, processed, and on

19     that basis a report is compiled for the preceding 24 hours.  The period

20     involved was from 0600 hours on the previous day up until 0600 hours on

21     the present day.  It involved all events that occurred in the territory,

22     in the water space, and in the air-space and that affect the security of

23     the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

24        Q.   I'm going to put a question to you, or rather, two questions on

25     the basis of what you said just now.  Let's deal with the first one.  Why

Page 10010

 1     was it necessary for persons, officers, who work in that centre to hold

 2     the rank of colonel?

 3        A.   Such high-ranking officers - and as I said yesterday these were

 4     persons who had spent 15 to 20 years in command positions and operative

 5     position in units at the rank of regiment, brigade, corps, respectively -

 6     it is indispensable for them to view properly what it is that really

 7     matters from these piles of reports that flow into this one single

 8     centre.  Then on that basis they draw the right proposals for the Chief

 9     of General Staff.

10        Q.   You mentioned reports.  Could you please tell us what is a daily

11     operations report?  And then I'm going to put a related question.  What

12     is the form of that particular document?

13        A.   The very fact that during 24 hours information arrives non-stop

14     at the operations centre meant that they had to be sublimated, as it

15     were, into a single report.  We called it the daily operations report.

16     Why daily?  Because it reflects what had happened over the previous 24

17     hours.

18        Q.   Is this report written up, or is it presented orally?

19        A.   The report, or rather, the daily operations report, let me use

20     the right terminology, has to be filed in writing.  That is compulsory.

21     As such, it is filed at the operations centre in the log-book of the

22     operations centre, and it has the status of an official document.

23        Q.   Later on we're going to see several reports of this kind.  At

24     this point may we just say to the Trial Chamber whether there was a

25     strict form regarding this report as to the type of information that it

Page 10011

 1     was supposed to contain.  Was it a single type of question that was

 2     supposed to be answered through these reports, if I can put it that way?

 3        A.   My answer would be that such operative duty is something that we

 4     have starting from regimental level, then it exists at brigade level,

 5     corps level, all the way up to the level of General Staff.  In order to

 6     monitor information more closely, the information received from

 7     subordinates, there is an exact list of particular items.

 8        Q.   Can you give us an example so that we don't have to put a

 9     document before you?

10        A.   Maybe I won't get the actual order right, but what -- oh, here I

11     go again, I'm speaking too fast.

12             The first item had to do with the situation in the surrounding

13     area, about the enemy, rather.  The second item was the situation in our

14     own army, and then from three onwards the items go on and on and then

15     extraordinary events if any.

16        Q.   In these daily reports was there usually a separate item that

17     would provide information about the situation at the border belt?

18        A.   Yesterday I said that border units, namely, border battalions,

19     are within the army chain of command.  Therefore, if any particular event

20     occurred that is important as far as the Chief of General Staff is

21     concerned, then reports would have to include that, the border units'

22     reports, that is.  However, it is there as such.  However, if there

23     weren't any events that were of particular interest, then usual

24     developments are simply not included in reports.

25        Q.   Who is the person who makes the ultimate assessment?  Which

Page 10012

 1     information is going to be included in the official report, the report

 2     that is sent on further?  Which official information is going to be

 3     contained therein?

 4        A.   That is the leader of the shift in the operations centre because

 5     on the basis of establishment and rank we thought that we had people in

 6     these positions who could tell what is more important, what is less

 7     important, and what is totally unimportant.

 8        Q.   So who is this report, this written report, the daily operations

 9     report submitted to?

10        A.   The daily operations report is submitted to the Chief of General

11     Staff, the deputy Chief of General Staff, the minister of defence, and to

12     the office of the Supreme Defence Council, or rather, the military office

13     of the president of the republic.

14        Q.   You already said who all the recipients of the report were -- or

15     actually, let's not repeat ourselves.  But it actually contains what came

16     in on a daily basis from the armies and from those who were the immediate

17     subordinates of the Chief of the General Staff.  In addition to these

18     regular daily reports, were there any other reports that came in on

19     interim basis?

20        A.   Interim reports did arrive from others as well; however, before I

21     respond to this question I believe that it is necessary for me to say by

22     way of clarification that every day at 2100 hours the duty officers that

23     we had in the intelligence administration and in the security

24     administration together with the shift at the operations centre, just as

25     we were there, they analyse the reports and they decide what is going to

Page 10013

 1     be placed into the daily operations report for the Chief of General Staff

 2     from all of these other reports.

 3        Q.   I don't want to lead in any way, but what you said just now, does

 4     that mean that the intelligence administration and the security

 5     administration also had their duty officers 24 hours a day?

 6        A.   Yes, yes.

 7        Q.   Who did you receive those interim reports from?

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, are you abandoning the other question?  Are

 9     you abandoning the question that remains unanswered?  You asked a

10     question and the witness said:  Before I answer, he explained something,

11     and never got back to your question.

12             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Yes, that is what I wanted to deal

13     with --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  [Previous translation continues]...

15             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] That's what I wanted to ask.  Yes,

16     that's what I wanted to ask.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.  There were

18     other reports as well that had to do with the environment as such, and

19     from time to time they would come from the Serb army of Krajina and

20     Republika Srpska.  They were used for writing up this report.  I say

21     "from time to time," because it wasn't a permanent practice, as it were.

22     It really depended on what they wanted to do and on an ad hoc basis.

23             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

24        Q.   Let's try to be as specific as possible.  You said the Serb army

25     of the Krajina and the Republika Srpska.  Did you mean the Army of

Page 10014

 1     Republika Srpska?

 2        A.   I'm sorry, I'm sorry if I misspoke.  I did misspeak, yes.  From

 3     the Main Staffs of the Serb Army of Krajina and Republika Srpska.

 4        Q.   Tell me, as for your operations centre or the General Staff of

 5     the Army of Yugoslavia, why was it important for them to receive reports

 6     from the Army of Republika Srpska and the Serb Army of the Serb Krajina?

 7        A.   I think that it would be lacking in seriousness if we did not

 8     express interest in what was going on in the neighbourhood, as it were.

 9     I'm trying to present this in very vivid terms, everyday terms.  Any

10     neighbour wants to know what's going on in his neighbourhood, and if

11     there is a fire - and I'm saying a fire conditionally - you don't really

12     want a fire to spread.  And we did not want the security of the Federal

13     Republic of Yugoslavia to be jeopardised in any way.  We wanted to take

14     timely measures in order to prevent any security threat to the country.

15        Q.   Did you - and when I say you I'm referring to the operations

16     centre of the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia, did you have a

17     direct link or direct communication with the Main Staffs of the Army of

18     Republika Srpska and the Serb Army of the Krajina?  Do you know whether

19     they had their own operations centre?  Perhaps this is a compound

20     question, but I'm sure that you can answer it.

21        A.   With the leave of the honourable Trial Chamber I would like to

22     elaborate a bit on this particular question.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Go ahead.

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] While the Federal Republic of

25     Yugoslavia was in existence, there was a single system of communications,

Page 10015

 1     communication channels, everything that comprises infrastructure.  As

 2     certain republics of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia became

 3     independent, these communications were broken off but parts of that

 4     system of communications continued to function between the Republika

 5     Srpska, the Republic of the Serb Krajina, and from time to time we would

 6     use those communications.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The interpretation says "While the Federal

 8     Republic of Yugoslavia was in existence ..."

 9             Are you talking about the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, or are

10     you talking about the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, a slip of the tongue

12     on my part.  I meant the Socialist Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, which

13     was a single state at the time.  Now, as individual republics were

14     leaving the system was disrupted.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

16             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

17        Q.   Just tell me, in view of your previous answer, but I think it can

18     be seen from the answer itself, do you know whether the Main Staffs of

19     these two armies, namely, the Army of Republika Srpska and the Serb Army

20     of the Krajina, whether they had their own operations centre that had

21     round-the-clock duty?

22        A.   As far as I know, in all armies of the world - and therefore in

23     our army as well and in the Army of Republika Srpska and in the Serb Army

24     of the Krajina - there were duty organs such as operations centres from

25     the General Staff via corps level down to brigade level, as I explained

Page 10016

 1     for the Army of Yugoslavia.

 2        Q.   What about your operative centre, did it have communication with

 3     them through the systems that were still in place from the former JNA?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   Very well.  You told us why it was in your interest to get that

 6     information and that you received it occasionally.  Do you remember

 7     whether the VJ requested to receive this information from those armies

 8     more often with regard to that occasional character?

 9        A.   Before General Perisic had taken over the position of Chief of

10     General Staff, that is, at the time of General Panic, as far as I know

11     measures were taken and requests were sent out to them to send us reports

12     more frequent so that we might monitor the situation more closely.  When

13     Mr. Perisic became Chief of General Staff, on several occasions he sent

14     out requests to the Main Staffs of both armies to submit reports to us in

15     a timely fashion.  But they failed to do so in spite of numerous requests

16     to that effect.

17                           [Defence counsel confer]

18             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

19        Q.   Let us now look at some documents.  I selected some documents and

20     will ask you whether you're familiar with that format of document,

21     whether such documents arrived at your operations centre.  So I will

22     focus on the format or the shape of the document.  Let us see Prosecution

23     Exhibit P1489.

24             I have a hard copy for you, General, if I could ask the usher to

25     pass it on to the witness.  This is a document of the Main Staff of the

Page 10017

 1     VRS dated 17 May 1994.  I would like to hear your comments, sir, what

 2     kind of document this is and whether such documents arrived at the

 3     operations centre, and on the basis of which can you draw that conclusion

 4     if so.

 5        A.   This is a document or actually a report submitted by the Main

 6     Staff of the VRS.  We can see to who it was addressed.  Among others it

 7     was sent to the Chief of Staff.  In this document --

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Chief of staff of which ...

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This, I repeat, is a document of

10     the Main Staff of the VRS.

11             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

12        Q.   But the Judge actually asked about the staff, which staff?

13        A.   To the Chief of General Staff of the VJ.  And to my mind this is

14     a high-quality comprehensive document signed by the Chief of Staff,

15     General Milovanovic, and it was received by the General Staff of the VJ.

16        Q.   If such a report was received by you is that something that the

17     operations centre would consider including in their daily operational

18     report?

19        A.   This is directly addressed to the Chief of General Staff.  It was

20     common practice for a document addressed personally to the Chief of the

21     General Staff of the VJ rather than to the operative centre of the

22     General Staff was handed directly to the Chief of General Staff with the

23     daily operations report.

24        Q.   Very well.  Let us now look at another document.  It's also a

25     Prosecution exhibit, P901.

Page 10018

 1             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Again, I have a hard copy for the

 2     General.

 3        Q.   This is a directive for further operations, number 6, issued by

 4     the Supreme Command of the armed forces of the Republika Srpska.  It is

 5     dated 11 November 1993.  General, was this document sent to you - and

 6     here I mean the operations centre of the VJ?

 7        A.   No.

 8        Q.   Nor to anybody in the VJ?

 9        A.   No.

10        Q.   How can you tell?

11        A.   Well, firstly you can see that the person who drafted this

12     directive enumerated the commands to who this was meant to go, the 1st

13     and 2nd Krajina Corps, the Sarajevo-Romanija Corps, the Eastern Bosnian

14     Corps, the Herzegovina Corps, the Drina Corps, the air force, and

15     anti-aircraft defence.  So we are not mentioned at all.  And secondly, if

16     it had been sent to us, although no mention of us is to be found here, it

17     would have been registered at the General Staff of the VJ.

18        Q.   This is a serious military act.  Do you remember that at any time

19     while you were there this directive number 6 was sent to anybody in the

20     VJ?

21        A.   Not as far as I know.  And to your remark that this is a serious

22     document, I can add that this is a document from the highest level of

23     command.

24        Q.   Very well.  Could we now please see Prosecution Exhibit P903.

25     This is a similar document at least with regard to its format as the

Page 10019

 1     previous one.  This is a document issued by the Supreme Command of the

 2     armed forces of Republika Srpska.  This is directive number 7 dated 8

 3     March 1995.  I will now --

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, we are still on number 6.  If you could

 5     just wait for us.

 6             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] I apologise.  Yes, let's wait for

 7     it.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 9             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Here it is.

10        Q.   General, the same question to you, can you tell by looking at

11     this document that one of the recipients of this document was the VJ or

12     any of its institutions or any personality belonging to the VJ?

13        A.   No.

14        Q.   I suppose that the reasons are the same as before?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   So it cannot be seen that one of the recipients is the VJ?

17        A.   No, the VJ is not a recipient.

18        Q.   No, I said that it cannot be seen that it is -- can you please

19     repeat.  No, no, not necessary.  The answer has been recorded.  Fine.

20             I showed you this document during the proofing.  Do you remember

21     from the time when you were in that position of yours, at that time did

22     you hear of directive number 7 of the Army of Republika Srpska?

23        A.   I saw it when you showed it to me during the proofing.  Earlier

24     or, as it were, in real time I never saw it or heard of it.

25        Q.   I'll phrase my next question very briefly, so we don't have to go

Page 10020

 1     through the entire document, and I also asked you these questions during

 2     the proofing.  Have you heard of Operation Spreca 95?

 3        A.   Yes, I heard of some other names too, but only when you were

 4     proofing me but not at that time.

 5        Q.   Let me be more precise then.  When you were chief of an

 6     administration, did you hear of Operation Zvijezda 95, Star 95?

 7        A.   No.

 8        Q.   Lukavac 95?

 9        A.   No.

10        Q.   Krivaja 95?

11        A.   No.

12        Q.   Sadejstvo 95?

13        A.   No.

14        Q.   Let us look at another document.  It's from the 65 ter list of

15     the Defence.  [In English] 00424D.

16             [Interpretation] We have a copy for you, General.  And the

17     question will be the same.  Take your time to look at the document.  This

18     is a report of the Main Staff of the VRS dated 19 July 1995.  Can you

19     tell us whether this document, among others, was sent to the VJ or

20     anybody in the VJ?

21        A.   This document did not arrive at the General Staff of the VJ.

22        Q.   Is the document similar to the one before that you called a

23     high-quality report?  By its format does it resemble the other, the one

24     from 1994 and which did arrive?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 10021

 1        Q.   Very well.  Could we please see on the screen document P2183.

 2                           [Trial Chamber and Registrar confer]

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, what is the Defence's intention with --

 4             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Yes, thank you, Your Honours.  And I

 5     apologise.  I seek to tender this document into evidence.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

 7     please given an exhibit number.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that's Exhibit Number D208.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

10             Now what is the document you're asking for now, Mr. Lukic?

11             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] This is the Defence Exhibit -- this

12     is a Prosecution Exhibit P2183.

13        Q.   This is an intelligence report of the intelligence affairs sector

14     of the Main Staff of the VRS dated 25 May 1995.  My question to you,

15     Mr. Simic, is:  Did this report reach anybody on the VJ, and did you

16     receive it at the operations centre?  What can you tell by the format of

17     the document?

18        A.   What I can conclude is that this is an intelligence security

19     report and that it was submitted to the General Staff of the Army of

20     Yugoslavia, to the security administration of the General Staff of the

21     Army of Yugoslavia, rather.  If you allow me, I will elaborate a bit.

22     This is an example showing that the security administration received --

23     security administration received this kind of information through its own

24     duty centre, but the operative -- but the duty centre did not.  The duty

25     officer at the security administration assessed what would be taken from

Page 10022

 1     that report and put into the daily operations report for the Chief of

 2     General Staff and what the chief of the security administration will

 3     report directly to the Chief of General Staff.  To put it in very simple

 4     terms, not a single sentence from this report necessarily has to be part

 5     of the daily operations report since it was sent to a different

 6     organisational unit of the General Staff, that is to say the security

 7     administration.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  How do you determine, sir -- we only see the first

 9     page.  How do you determine that it was sent to the security staff of the

10     VJ?

11             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, on page 2 it says

12     towards the bottom the security administration of the General Staff of

13     the Army of Yugoslavia.  There is a stamp as to when this was received by

14     telegram at the security administration.

15             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] It's page 3 in English and page 2 in

16     B/C/S.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Thank you so much.  Now in your answer,

18     sir -- I'm trying to -- in your answer at page 15 starting from line 20

19     you say:

20             "If you allow me, I will elaborate a bit.  This is an example

21     showing that the security administration received -- security

22     administration received this kind of information through its own duty

23     centre, but the operative -- but the duty centre did not."

24             When you say "the duty centre did not," are you talking about the

25     duty centre of the operative centre?

Page 10023

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, if that is what is

 2     written there as was interpreted to me then it was not put right.  I

 3     repeat once again.  This information that arrived to the chief of the

 4     security administration and in the security administration there is no

 5     operations centre.  There is an operations duty officer, a single person.

 6     Then that person at 2100 hours, when he comes to the operations centre to

 7     compile the daily report, he can give part of the content of this

 8     information and put it into the report but not necessarily.  He consults

 9     his own chief of administration, who will decide whether he will in

10     direct contact with the Chief of General Staff inform him about that.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thanks.

12             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

13        Q.   A few moments ago you mentioned, General, that these reports of

14     the Army of Republika Srpska and Krajina -- I think that we actually need

15     the next page in English --

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Wait, wait, wait, before you go to the next page

17     in English, I accept that when we got to the distribution list that the

18     VJ would be mentioned here or the security centre of the VJ would be

19     mentioned.  I still don't see it.  So my earlier question as to how he

20     determined -- yes, Mr. Saxon.

21             MR. SAXON:  If I can help, Your Honour.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, please do.

23             MR. SAXON:  I believe on page 4 of the English we'll find it.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

25             Can we go to page 4, please.

Page 10024

 1             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Yes, I had wished to.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 3             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

 4        Q.   General, a few moments ago you mentioned that these reports from

 5     these two other armies arrived from time to time and that you - I'm

 6     speaking now about the Army of Yugoslavia - sometimes saw these reports

 7     more frequently.  We're going to show another document now, P1617, it's a

 8     Prosecution exhibit.  [In English] P1617.

 9             [Interpretation] This is a document of the operations

10     administration, or rather, the operations centre of the General Staff of

11     the Army of Yugoslavia dated the 6th of February, 1993.  I would like to

12     ask you for a brief comment with regard to this document.

13        A.   When I spoke previously I pointed out that while General Panic

14     was still Chief of General Staff requests were sent to one or the other

15     army for them to submit reports so that the Army of Yugoslavia could be

16     kept abreast of how the situation developed.  We see in this specific

17     document that the assistant Chief of General Staff of the Army of

18     Yugoslavia for operations affairs was Lieutenant-Colonel -- General Zoran

19     Stojkovic.  That is to say, that even back then it was necessary to

20     monitor the situation in the territories of these armies.

21        Q.   Perhaps it's a very run-of-the-mill question, but for the

22     transcript, if somebody has authority over somebody else in military

23     hierarchy, does that person then make requests to the other party or

24     issue orders?

25        A.   As far as control and command is concerned, in our military

Page 10025

 1     doctrine and strategy of armed struggle it is defined who issues orders

 2     to who and where one speaks in a tone which implies a request.  That tone

 3     underlying a request is used vis-à-vis those institutions that are not my

 4     subordinates.

 5        Q.   Just a moment, please.  A small correction in view of the English

 6     translation in the document.  It says "please," and I'm pleased with the

 7     word "please" used in the English translation; however, the interpreters

 8     in court are using the word "request."  Could the interpreters please

 9     correct themselves.  The witness said "could you please" "molimo vas" so

10     could we have an exact interpretation of that?

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note that "molimo vas" is "could

12     you please."

13             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Thank you.

14             Could we now see on our screens document [In English] 65 ter

15     00625D.

16        Q.   General, unfortunately we don't seem to have a hard copy of this

17     document, so I'm going to ask for the B/C/S to be zoomed in.  Yes, now I

18     see that it's being enlarged for you, and you will be able to see this

19     document better.  Can you read it now?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   Could you please read the document slowly to yourself -- not

22     aloud, no, no, just to yourself.  Just to yourself.  Just to yourself and

23     then could I have a brief comment.  I have a hard copy for the general

24     now.  I do apologise.

25             This document is addressed to the Chief of the General Staff of

Page 10026

 1     the Army of Yugoslavia, and it's signed by Blagoje Kovacevic,

 2     Major-General Blagoje Kovacevic.  What can you say about this document?

 3        A.   On the basis of the first sentence of this document that I have

 4     to read - and it reads as follows:

 5             "Due to lack of organisation on the part of the Main Staff of the

 6     Republic of Serb Krajina army, and the Main Staff of the Army of

 7     Republika Srpska in providing ..." and so on and so forth.  And "in order

 8     to overcome these shortcomings and improve the co-operation between us,

 9     we hereby propose ..." That is to say that the chief of the

10     administration, General Kovacevic, due to difficulties in carrying out

11     the orders of the Chief of General Staff hereby informs him of the

12     problems that are there, and he proposes to him which measures should be

13     taken because this goes beyond the powers of the chief of administration.

14        Q.   You said due to difficulties in carrying out the order received

15     from the Chief of General Staff.  What was that order of the Chief of

16     General Staff that was sent to General Kovacevic?

17        A.   When we said that from time to time they should send reports, and

18     from the previous report when General Zoran Stojkovic is asking them to

19     please do such and such a thing we saw that there was a problem.  Now the

20     problem continues.  While Blagoje Kovacevic is the chief of

21     administration and he is asking the Chief of General Staff the following:

22     If he wants the administration to prepare the right kind of information

23     for him about the situation in those areas, that he should take certain

24     measures.  I did not deem it necessary to read out all those measures.

25        Q.   I agree.

Page 10027

 1        A.   When the Chief of General Staff agrees to that, then the

 2     administration uses this same tone presenting a request by saying

 3     "please."  And only then is this sent on further, to the Main Staffs

 4     included.

 5             THE INTERPRETER:  Could the witness please sit closer to the

 6     microphones.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Could the witness -- Madam interpreter, who do you

 8     want to sit close to the microphone?

 9             THE INTERPRETER:  The interpreter was asking if the witness could

10     come closer to the microphones, he's a bit far from the microphones.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Could we have the witness please -- and try to get

12     the microphones closer to him.

13             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Yes, page 20, line 18, the witness

14     said -- the previous request when General Stojkovic, et cetera.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  He didn't say the previous request, he said a

16     previous report.

17             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  It was request as to

18     please do such and such a thing.  That was the interpretation at the

19     moment.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

21             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] I apologise.  Just a moment, please.

22                           [Defence counsel confer]

23             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

24        Q.   General, this document does not have a date.  However, can you

25     give us a tentative period of time when this document could have been

Page 10028

 1     reported on the basis of when General Kovacevic held that post?

 2        A.   The document was written in mid-1993, tentatively.

 3        Q.   The previous one was written in 1993 at the time of

 4     Mr. Stojkovic?

 5        A.   No --

 6             MR. SAXON:  Well --

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Saxon --

 8             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] All right.  I apologise.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, Mr. Saxon, I didn't even hear you.

10             MR. SAXON:  I believe my colleague anticipated the objection that

11     I -- that I was going to make, so I can sit down now.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

13             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

14        Q.   Do you know at what time General Blagoje Kovacevic was chief of

15     this sector?

16        A.   Blagoje Kovacevic received the position of chief of sector in

17     November 1993 when he handed over the position of chief of first

18     administration to me.

19        Q.   Thank you.

20             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] I seek to tender this document into

21     evidence, Your Honour.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

23     please be given an exhibit number.

24             THE REGISTRAR: [Interpretation] That will be Exhibit Number D209.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

Page 10029

 1             [Microphone not activated]

 2             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone for the Judge, please.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sorry.

 4             Before you carry on, you indicated that the operations centre was

 5     doing this in order to get information from your neighbours.  Did you get

 6     similar reports as you did from the RSK and the VRS, did you get that

 7     from the Croatian army, and perhaps the Bosnian army, telling you about

 8     the situation in their respective areas?

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we did not receive

10     reports from them, but the situation in those areas was dealt with in the

11     reports of these armies.  That was one route, and the other was through

12     the intelligence administration.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Any reason you didn't ask for reports from the

14     armies?

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, the simple reason is that we

16     were receiving reports from friendly armies in simple terms.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  In even simpler terms, do I understand you to say

18     that those armies of Croatia and Bosnia-Herzegovina were not friendly

19     armies to you?

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, absolutely.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

22             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation]

23        Q.   General, tell us, please, what -- what the term "team on duty"

24     means.  What's the meaning of that phrase?  I started with a general

25     question and then I will give you a document.  So please explain the

Page 10030

 1     term.

 2        A.   Possibly I should have explained previously what the Chief of

 3     General Staff relied upon to establish such teams.  In the first

 4     administration of the General Staff, that is, the General Staff had a

 5     directive about special measures of permanent combat-readiness.  That is

 6     a complex document which contains provisions for the Army of Yugoslavia

 7     to be brought into full combat-readiness by implementing certain

 8     measures.  One of these measures was the establishment of operative duty

 9     teams.  These teams were established with the intention that a larger

10     number of more complex problems that the operations centre is faced with

11     should be -- that it should be possible to assess them better.  And based

12     on that, that high-quality proposals be made to the Chief of Staff of the

13     VJ so that he may take adequate measures.  This will -- this can also be

14     seen from the preamble of the order of the Chief of General Staff by

15     which he appoints or establishes operations duty teams.

16        Q.   Very well.  Let us now look at the document.  Can we see P859 on

17     the screen, please, and for my learned friends from the Prosecution let

18     me add that this is the very same document that -- on our 65 ter list is

19     marked 00877.  It has the status of exhibit already.

20             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Could you please pass a copy of this

21     document to General Simic, please.

22             Could we now see page 2 in both B/C/S and English.  This is just

23     a cover sheet.  I'm interested in the order itself.  Actually, what I

24     would like to show is on page 3 of the English translation.

25        Q.   So this is an order signed by the Chief of General Staff of the

Page 10031

 1     VJ, and it's dated 12 April 1994.  It's about the establishment of

 2     operations duty teams.  Witness, tell us who drafted this document?

 3        A.   This document was drafted by the first administration.  I have

 4     said that the preamble reads:

 5             "Pursuant to the VJ Rules of Service item 197 and the directive

 6     on special measures of permanent combat-readiness of the VJ, chapter 1,

 7     item 1, sub-item 3, and chapter 3, items 1 and 4."

 8             And "in order to monitor the readiness of command and the

 9     creation of conditions for the constant assessment of the situation in

10     the VJ, I hereby order ..."

11             And it goes on to deal with the establishment of these teams.

12        Q.   Yes, the document speaks for itself, but who heads these teams in

13     terms of the chain of command and why is that so?

14        A.   Depending on the complexity of the situation in the country and

15     in neighbouring countries and depending on the degree of threat that

16     arises from that situation, different variants are possible so that

17     either the chief of administration can be the head of that team and it

18     can go to the level of chief of sector.  And the members in that case are

19     the chiefs of administrations.

20             This shows that it was paramount to assist the situation in a

21     timely fashion and correctly and likewise this also applies to the -- to

22     proposing measures.  On the other hand, the Chief of Staff considered it

23     necessary for the -- for the personnel in the General Staff not to be

24     exhausted too much, but rather that this operative duty team be only used

25     from time to time if there's a need to have one.

Page 10032

 1             MR. LUKIC:  [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that this

 2     is -- that it's time for the break.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It is indeed.  We'll take a break and come back at

 4     4.00.  Court adjourned.

 5                           [The witness stands down]

 6                          --- Recess taken at 3.32 p.m.

 7                           --- On resuming at 4.01 p.m.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

 9             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] We'll have to move to a private

10     session for a moment.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into private session.

12     [Private session] [Confidentiality lifted by order of Trial Chamber]

13             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in private session.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

15             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could the witness please be shown

17     document P861.  It's a document under seal and that was the reason I

18     asked for a private session.  We also have a copy for the witness.

19        Q.   General, a while ago we discussed the duty team, and you

20     explained to us what it was, and we saw a document about how they were

21     structured.  Let me ask you this about this document in particular.  We

22     see that this is a report of the 26th of May, 1994, and we see here that

23     it says "duty team."  Can you tell us a few words about this document.

24        A.   This is a duty operations officer report about the activities in

25     the former BiH, the Army of Republika Srpska, and the Army of the

Page 10033

 1     Republic of Serbia and Krajina.  We can see the content.

 2        Q.   Let me just correct you, please, maybe it's a mistake.  It says,

 3     Report on the situation on the activities in the former B&H, VRS, and RS.

 4     There is no mention of the Serbian Republic of Krajina.

 5        A.   Yes, that's correct.

 6        Q.   Does that mean that when this report was compiled, a duty team

 7     was established based on the previous order that we saw?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   When we have this kind of duty team functioning, does the

10     operations centre continue to perform its regular duties?

11        A.   Daily operations reports were much more complex documents.  It

12     encompasses more information, both in the territory and in the VJ.

13     However, this particular report refers only to the situation in the

14     former BH and the Army of Republika Srpska and Republika Srpska itself.

15     And when this kind of report is made, a daily operations report is

16     drafted as well.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And what is meant by the former BiH?  What is it

18     called now that it is no longer BiH?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, we know that the Republic of

20     Bosnia-Herzegovina was a single republic incorporated into the Federal

21     Republic of Yugoslavia.  At this point it was actually divided between

22     two armies and between two political leaderships.  For that reason this

23     term "former" is being used.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sure.  And I want to know what -- now that it's

25     been divided into two, what does "former" mean?  Does "former" mean the

Page 10034

 1     two areas that have been divided put together?  Does it mean Republika

 2     Srpska?  Does it mean BiH minus Republika Srpska?  What does it mean?  Or

 3     does it mean the whole of them -- of the two of them put together?

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It means the entire Republic of

 5     Bosnia and Herzegovina and its constituent parts.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Including Republika Srpska?

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, Republika Srpska as well.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And -- okay.  Thank you.

 9             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

10        Q.   In order not to try and guess, this item 4 entitled "continue to

11     observe the signed truce, particularly in the protected areas," do you

12     know what the provenance of this information that arrived at the

13     General Staff?

14        A.   This information was received from their subordinates from their

15     operations centre, and it reached us.  On that basis they have compiled

16     these bullet points.

17        Q.   Their, whose?

18        A.   The report of the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska.

19             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] We can go back to an open session,

20     Your Honours.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move back into open

22     session.

23                           [Open session]

24             THE REGISTRAR:  We are now in open session.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Will the court officer please help us by opening

Page 10035

 1     the blind.

 2             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] We'll now look at another document.

 3     it's Prosecution Exhibit P1017.

 4        Q.   This document comes from the Main Staff of the Serbian army of

 5     Krajina of 21st December 1993.  We see who it is addressed to.  Can you

 6     tell us whether this regular operations report was submitted to your

 7     operations centre or not?

 8        A.   This specific report was not forwarded through the operations

 9     centre but was submitted to the Chief of General Staff, because the Main

10     Staff of the Serbian army put it like that.  It says:  "To General

11     Momcilo Perisic personally."  And if it's not sent from the

12     communications centre and it's sent encrypted, then it is forwarded

13     directly to the Chief of General Staff.

14        Q.   Can we now have called up document of the Prosecution, and it's

15     an entirely different subject.  I have finished with this topic relating

16     to operation centres.  It's P1123.  It's another document issued by the

17     first administration, and I would kindly ask you to comment on this

18     document in the context of the time when you were in your position.  It's

19     dated the 23rd of February, 1995.  It was addressed to the Main Staff of

20     the Serbian army of Krajina.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I note that the English version is dated the 23rd

22     of March, and I can see it's the 23rd of February in the B/C/S.

23             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.  I see the difference as well,

24     Your Honours.  If that's the only discrepancy, we can just state this for

25     the record instead of asking for a new translation.  Hopefully there are

Page 10036

 1     no other mistakes.

 2        Q.   There is reference in this document to a letter, but I'm

 3     interested in item 1.  First of all, the Chief of General Staff signed

 4     this, but can you tell me who the author was of this document?

 5        A.   The first administration was the author.  It was signed by the

 6     Chief of General Staff.  It is addressed to the Main Staff of the Serbian

 7     army of Krajina from the very response, because it says, Reference your

 8     telegram, strictly confidential, et cetera, I presume that it was Momcilo

 9     Perisic's response to some of the requests or demands posed by the

10     Serbian army of Krajina.  Item 1 reads literally as follows:

11             "In the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia it is not possible to

12     organise gathering of volunteers by relying on the structures of Yugoslav

13     Army, but rather that activities should be done through the structures

14     outside of the Army of Yugoslavia."

15        Q.   Was that how it was in practice?

16        A.   Yes.

17        Q.   Would you please comment item 7 of this letter.

18        A.   Item 7 speaks about sending officers from the Yugoslav Army to

19     the Serbian army of Krajina, and it reads that this secondment can only

20     be regulated on the voluntary basis; which means that they requested the

21     Chief of General Staff to force all the officers originally from that

22     area, but he didn't agree with that and that is why he sent this kind of

23     response.

24                           [Defence counsel confer]

25             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

Page 10037

 1        Q.   General, have you ever heard of the so-called co-ordinating

 2     meetings of the three armies, all the so-called co-ordination activities?

 3        A.   Given that I was in one of the administrations, I have heard of

 4     and I am aware of and I took part in the preparation of certain tasks and

 5     in solving certain tasks deriving from this kind of meetings and

 6     co-ordinating activities.  I wasn't personally present at this

 7     co-ordinating meetings myself.

 8        Q.   Since you have some information about that, what can you tell the

 9     Chamber about it?  What kind of meetings were those, just in few words,

10     please.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, can this witness tell us what kind of

12     meetings they were if he never attended them?  Or can he tell us of the

13     kind of tasks that he carried out that came from the meeting?

14             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.  I understand your point.  I

15     wanted to ask him that on the basis of information he received would he

16     be able to tell us something about the nature of those meetings.

17        Q.   Well, let's start from the beginning.  Who gave you tasks

18     relating to these meetings?

19        A.   Co-ordination meetings were held not on a regular basis, for

20     instance, once a month, but as the need arose and based on the requests

21     that came from Main Staffs of the armies.  But since my head of sector

22     was always present at these meetings he himself had to prepare based on

23     the requests and Main Staffs the topics to be discussed at these

24     meetings.  So through my head of sector I became familiar with the tasks,

25     but that took place in the aftermath of these meetings.  And these

Page 10038

 1     particular requests referred to the first administration specifically.

 2        Q.   Do you remember any specific task that the head of the sector

 3     gave you that stemmed from these meetings?

 4        A.   Well, the most common requests made at these meetings was to

 5     provide assistance in literature to be provided by the first

 6     administration.  Also, we were asked to provide topographic maps because

 7     the military geographical institute had the maps of the entire Socialist

 8     Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.

 9             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we look at Prosecution document

10     P25177, please.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Do we have that number?

12             MR. LUKIC:  P2177, exhibit, prosecution.

13             [Interpretation] I ask the usher to show this hard copy to

14     General Simic.

15        Q.   The document is self-explanatory.  My question is:  This was made

16     by the first administration.  Why was it important to you to know the

17     exact disposition of the units of the SVK and the disposition of the

18     enemy forces?

19        A.   For security reasons, that is, because of the security of our own

20     country and to be able to take certain measures.  But this document also

21     shows what I have spoken about before, namely, that their reports were

22     not submitted regularly nor were they complete.  They sent them when they

23     deemed necessary.  The very beginning of the document reads:

24             "For the next co-ordination meeting please bring..." et cetera.

25     I believe that the rest is not so important.

Page 10039

 1        Q.   No, you don't have to read it out till the end.  Do you know

 2     whether you requested information from the operative centre by phone when

 3     you didn't get it from them?

 4        A.   Oftentimes I was sore at my officers and they were sore at me

 5     because we intervened through their duty officers in the operations

 6     centre, and they would simply reply, "No news, everything's fine."

 7        Q.   Thank you.  Let us move on to a different topic now.  We have

 8     seen that one of the tasks of your administration was strategic

 9     camouflage or masking.  Can you explain that notion in a few words,

10     please?

11        A.   One of the duties of the first administration of the

12     General Staff was strategic masking or camouflage.  In simple terms, this

13     refers to documents - and that's the plural here - that are meant to

14     deceive other parties about the real intentions of the VJ; or we can put

15     it this way:  We protected the commands and units of the VJ.

16        Q.   Can we see Prosecution -- sorry, no, not Prosecution document but

17     our 65 ter document 01196 on the screen, please.  I apologise, I didn't

18     add the letter D at the end.  So 01196D is the proper reference from the

19     Defence list.  Yes, this is it.

20             What is this, General, can you enlighten us?

21        A.   This is one of the documents of strategic masking or camouflage.

22     If you look at it you will think that this is a missile system.

23     Specifically, this is the Neva missile system which was used to shoot

24     down that F-117 in 1999.  But this is only a structure made of wood and

25     sheet metal that is actually a look-alike.  So this is meant by

Page 10040

 1     operational strategic masking or camouflage.

 2             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we assign an exhibit number to

 3     this photograph, Your Honours.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just before we do that, you say this is just a

 5     look-alike.  Does it work like a missile system, or it doesn't work?

 6     It's just a look-alike that doesn't work?

 7             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this is just a model

 8     of a missile system used to deceive the adversary about the position of

 9     the real missiles.  This is not a missile.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

11             I guess the short answer is:  It doesn't work like a missile.

12             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

14             The document is admitted into evidence.  May it please be given

15     an exhibit number.

16             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be Exhibit Number D210.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And we'll quickly go through another

18     document.

19             I apologise, but I repeat 01195D.

20        Q.   So let's follow up on Judge Moloto's question, and I'll ask you

21     whether these are real missiles or just models?

22        A.   This is just a model.

23        Q.   That which served the same purpose as the one you spoke about a

24     minute ago?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 10041

 1        Q.   And your administration among others had this kind of

 2     responsibility too?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   All right.  We needn't repeat.

 5             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we assign an exhibit number to

 6     this document and then we'll move on to the next topic.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted.  May it please be given

 8     an exhibit number.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  That will be Exhibit Number D211, Your Honours.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

11             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

12        Q.   Mr. Simic, could you please tell the Court what the plan of the

13     use of the army is.

14        A.   Every army, thus also the VJ, drafts a plan of its use.  That

15     plan is a complex document that elaborates how a country decided to wage

16     war in case it's attacked.  It is compiled in peacetime.  The situation

17     in the country and around it is monitored, and depending on need, it is

18     updated.  Every plan of use must contain some essential elements.  There

19     must be a directive, there must be a decision on a map, and there must be

20     a plan of action.  To elaborate the plan of use, the Chief of General

21     Staff drafts an organisational order which regulates what must be done,

22     who was to do it, who will know about it, the places where this is done,

23     security measures to be applied, and finally a code-name for that plan.

24     Once we have that, or rather, all those, the first administration

25     together with other organisational structures as listed in the order of

Page 10042

 1     the Chief of General Staff starts elaborating the details of that

 2     document.

 3        Q.   Who takes part in that process?

 4        A.   The leading persons of the organisational units of the General

 5     Staff take part in that elaboration process with a minimum number of

 6     their subordinates or members of their organisational units.  They are

 7     appointed by an order, and they must sign a special declaration that they

 8     will keep a state secret, and only then can they be involved in the

 9     elaboration of such a document.

10        Q.   You mentioned three elements of the plan of use.  One of these is

11     a directive.  What is a directive?  What does it contain?  And what is

12     its format?  Is it a document, the form of which is strictly prescribed?

13        A.   A directive is a highest -- the highest-level commanding document

14     at the highest strategic level.  And in our case it would be at the level

15     of General Staff.  Just like lower-level documents that stem from the

16     directive, that is, orders of army commanders and lower-ranking

17     commanders, it has a strictly prescribed format.  So that in item 1 --

18     I'm now referring a strategic level directive.  In item 1 it deals with

19     the general military and political situation in the world, then it

20     focuses in on the closer surroundings, and it presents the estimate of a

21     certain state as to what degree it is threatened.  In keeping with that

22     estimate, the objective of the directive is subsequently stated.  But

23     first our forces are presented, et cetera.  It is customary for a

24     directive with regard to its being very general cannot be changed often.

25     It is made for an entire war sometimes because it defines the positions

Page 10043

 1     of a country as to how it will wage war.  That is why we do not see such

 2     directives regulating the use of the entire forces of an army often.

 3        Q.   What about a plan of action?

 4        A.   A plan of action is an integral part of the plan of use, as is

 5     the directive, and the plan of action lays out how the individual

 6     branches of the armed forces are to act in wartime.

 7        Q.   How precise must the information be that is contained in the

 8     directive or the plan of action?

 9        A.   They are at a very -- or it is at a very general level.  Once

10     excerpts are taken from such a plan of use, they are worked out in more

11     detail so that it is precisely defined who does what, where, and when

12     exactly.

13        Q.   These extracts that you refer to, what should their form be?  Who

14     compiles them?  Who are they sent to?

15        A.   Well, I'm still speaking about the global plan of use.  I have to

16     say that it is approved by the supreme commander.  The supreme commander

17     signs the directive for use and the map decision is approved by the

18     supreme commander.  What is a map decision actually?  A map decision is

19     actually a graphic representation of what is expressed by way of text in

20     the directive.  That is why it is also approved by the president, or

21     rather, the supreme commander, and it is signed by the chief of General

22     Staff as the elaborating party, as it were.  Now, in this hierarchy there

23     is another link that is important though not unimportant, and that is

24     approved by the Chief of General Staff, and it is elaborated by the

25     assistant -- or rather, it is signed by the assistant Chief of General

Page 10044

 1     Staff for operations and staff affairs.  That is the sequence involved in

 2     the hierarchy so that a directive would -- or rather, so that a plan of

 3     use would be valid.

 4        Q.   The question that I --

 5        A.   Sorry, if you allow me.  I don't want it to be understood that

 6     the plan of use contains only these three documents.  Later on all arms

 7     and services elaborate their own attachments for the realisation of the

 8     tasks from the directive, and then once this plan of use is completed it

 9     has three or four volumes this big, and that is the plan of use.

10        Q.   You said "this big" and you showed it with your hands and we

11     cannot have that in the transcript.  Can you tell us specifically, say

12     how many binders like this it should contain?

13        A.   Well, looking at your binder, perhaps it would be about ten of

14     those.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  We still don't have Mr. Lukic's binder on the

16     record.  Can you make sure that we have an idea what size this is.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   Could you tell us roughly how many pages?  Perhaps that would be

19     the most specific way of doing it.

20        A.   I cannot give you an exact page number because it contains maps,

21     it contains graphs as to how units will be brought in, also calculations,

22     and all the rest.  So it's very hard for me to say anything specific in

23     that regard.  However, if you allow me to show it with my hand, it is

24     this high, it is this many documents.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  From the table or from the floor?

Page 10045

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] From the table.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] It will be best if you were to

 4     establish it, Your Honour.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  [Microphone not activated]

 6             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone for Judge Moloto, please.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  It is tens of thousands of pages.

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.  Thank you.

 9        Q.   General, what I asked a few moments ago, but let's be very

10     specific.  You said the word "extract," you said the word "extracts."

11     Can you explain to us what extracts are and in what form they are

12     compiled.  Let us be specific.  Who is it that compiles these extracts or

13     writes them?

14        A.   The protagonist or the proponent is the first administration, the

15     proponent or the protagonist of the plan of use, and it involves all the

16     organisational units of the General Staff.

17        Q.   So what are extracts?

18        A.   Extracts -- extracts are parts of the plan of use that pertain to

19     certain subordinates, particular subordinates.  Imagine if all of that

20     were to be submitted to the army command, they would need ten days to

21     study all of that and then when are they going to carry it out?  So it is

22     this group that actually elaborated the plan of use that extracts only

23     what is essential for carrying out the task of that particular army, then

24     the air force, the navy, because many things are important for me but are

25     not important for others.

Page 10046

 1        Q.   Now, these armies, or rather, all the arms and services, do they

 2     work on this in depth, on this plan of use, from the lowest-ranking unit

 3     onwards?

 4        A.   Plans of use are elaborated in written form from regiment level

 5     upwards via brigades and artillery battalions, then corps, all the way up

 6     to the General Staff.  May I also note that for a variety of reasons,

 7     primary security-related reasons, all plans are written in two copies.

 8     The first copy is always kept in a special room for safe-guarding the war

 9     plan.  It is secured technically and physically.  The second copy is kept

10     in the superior command, in the same kind of room for keeping the war

11     plan.  That is for security reasons so that if for some reason the

12     command of the brigade is destroyed, they should not be without a plan of

13     use.  It has to exist, say, in the corps command.

14        Q.   General, have you heard of a Drina plan?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   Did you personally take part in the elaboration of Drina plan?

17        A.   Yes.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now have on our screens

19     document P2125.  I know that earlier on it was a protected document, but

20     I think it is no longer so.  It's a public document now.  I checked that.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just before we do that, Mr. Lukic.

22             Mr. Simic, you've told us that the first copy is always kept in a

23     special room for safe-guarding the war plan.  And then you said the

24     second copy is kept in the superior command.  Where is the first copy

25     kept?  This one is in the superior command, where is that other one, the

Page 10047

 1     first one kept?  Or is that top secret that we are not supposed to know?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The command that elaborates plans

 3     of use has a special room that is technically secure, and there is always

 4     a guard in front of the door.  And there is an opening there so he can

 5     see inside the safe boxes where the plan is kept.  The second copy is

 6     submitted to the superior command, that safe-guards it along with their

 7     own plan in that same kind of room or one perhaps that is even bigger

 8     depending on the capacity of the rooms involved.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

10             MR. LUKIC:  [Microphone not activated]

11             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Document Prosecution Exhibit P215,

13     P215, page 1.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  215 what?

15             MR. LUKIC:  215.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  215.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   General, I have a copy of the document for you.  The first thing

19     I'm going to ask you pertains to this very first page.  It has a stamp

20     showing that it was locked in your administration on the 14th of

21     November, 1993.  Sorry that I've been leading.

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   What can you tell us about this?  Do you know this document, and

24     what was it that you did in relation to this document?

25        A.   I am fully familiar with this document because I was one of the

Page 10048

 1     participants in the elaboration of this document.  It shows what I spoke

 2     about in terms of directives in general, the military/political

 3     situation, what is going on and where.  Then there is a reference to

 4     possible threats, that is point 2, aggression against Serb lands.  Then

 5     there are the objectives of the aggression, then there is an explanation

 6     of how this aggression would probably take place, then how the forces

 7     taking part in the aggression could be supported.  And then finally on

 8     page 6, Roman numeral II, there is a reference to our own forces, general

 9     objective, what the state actually wants, then the concept of activities

10     in general, how that is envisaged to be implemented within this general

11     objective.  On page 8, Roman numeral III, there is a reference to the

12     tasks of the armed forces of the Army of Yugoslavia, the Army of

13     Republika Srpska, the Serb Army of the Krajina, then the use of RV, that

14     is to say the air force and air defence, and then -- then there are other

15     aspects such as the moral, political, logistics support for combat

16     activities, and so on.  That is to say that this is a complex directive,

17     as you can see on the basis of what I've been saying, and it is one of

18     the key parts of the plan of use.  This directive is used for the map

19     decision and for the action plan.  They operationalise what is defined in

20     its text.

21        Q.   There are some attachments there as well, but the document is

22     self-explanatory so we really don't have to refer to them right now, I

23     mean, after the directive itself, there are these attachments.

24             You said that you took part in the elaboration of this directive.

25     It says here November 1993.  Does that perhaps jog your memory?  Did you

Page 10049

 1     work on this document roughly at that time, as is written on this

 2     document?

 3        A.   Yes, yes.

 4        Q.   In addition to yourself, do you remember who else worked on this

 5     document?

 6        A.   I've already said that from the General Staff the top people of

 7     the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia were involved.  So I don't

 8     have to enumerate them all by name specifically because I cannot remember

 9     exactly who held which position then.  I know that in addition to

10     officers of the Army of Yugoslavia there were other active participants

11     in the elaboration of this directive, namely, General Manojlo Milovanovic

12     from the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska and General Mile

13     Novakovic, also from the Main Staff of the Serb Army of Krajina.  Along

14     with them there were a few officers whom they had brought along in order

15     to facilitate the elaboration of the document.  The directive was signed

16     by the president of the Supreme Defence Council, Zoran Lilic.

17        Q.   Let us just comment upon a few parts of the directive itself.

18             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could I please have page 3 in B/C/S

19     and page 3 in English concerning item 2 Entitled "Aggression against Serb

20     lands."

21        Q.   I'm going to read it out and ask for your comment.

22             "The general objective of the aggression is to break up the FRY,

23     prevent the creation of a single Serb state in the Balkans, and ensure

24     the relocation of NATO forces from CEV to JEV."  What does that mean, CEV

25     and JEV?

Page 10050

 1        A.   And ensure the relocation of NATO forces from the central

 2     European front to the south-east -- south European front.

 3        Q.   Thank you.  With the objective of acquiring full control of the

 4     sources of raw materials in Asia and Africa and control of developments

 5     in the former USSR.  (A), Croatia's objective is to establish authority

 6     within its administrative borders; (B), the Muslims' objective continues

 7     to the creation of a unified Muslim state in the territory of the former

 8     BH with access to the sea, the Drina river, and the Sava river, and the

 9     objective of the Croatia Republic of Herceg-Bosna continues ..."

10             I don't want to read the whole text.  On the basis of which

11     information is this entered into the directive?

12        A.   This comes from intelligence on the basis of intelligence

13     gathered, knowledge acquired in the immediate area over a longer period

14     of time, the intelligence people came to the conclusion that a possible

15     aggression could evolve in this way.

16        Q.   Next page, please, page 4 both in B/C/S and in English.  We see

17     that the document is from November 1993.  Now I'm going to read (A)

18     "probable mode of action of the Croatian army," and it says:

19             "The aggression would start with an all-out attack of the

20     Croatian army on the Republic of the Serb Krajina with a radical

21     objective.  In the beginning they would engage their main forces in

22     Western Slavonia and Baranja with the objective to simultaneously draw

23     Republika Srpska and the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia into the war and

24     condemn them before the international public and ask for help from the

25     organisation of the United Nations, with a view to protection."

Page 10051

 1             Who enters this information into the directive, on the basis of

 2     what?

 3        A.   An intelligence man, but let us be clear about this.  This is not

 4     the fruit of the work of one person, but rather all the personnel of the

 5     General Staff who estimated or made estimates about the objectives of the

 6     aggression based on the development of the situation in the immediate

 7     vicinity up to that time and based on orders received from the

 8     leadership.  But basically it's the intelligence people.

 9        Q.   General, do you know about the events termed Operation Flash?

10     Have you heard about it, and can you say in a few words what happened in

11     that operation?

12        A.   You have already read out some of that in the previous text and

13     it was quite implemented in May 1995 in Operation Flash when the Croatian

14     army attacked Western Slavonia, evicted the population, and occupied

15     those areas.

16        Q.   Let us now look at page 7 in the B/C/S and page 8 in the English.

17     We're now referring to that part of the directive that is called, "The

18     Use of the Armed Forces."  I'm interested in the part referring to the

19     VJ.

20     It's under item 2.  It's probably the previous page in the English where

21     it starts, that is the bottom of the previous page.  About the Army of

22     Yugoslavia, it says:

23             "Repel the potential aggressors by combat-readiness of the Army

24     of Yugoslavia, prevent potential aggressors, and prevent armed

25     rebellion ..." and it continues on the following page, "and thus make the

Page 10052

 1     leadership of the Republic of Croatia and the former BiH to accept the

 2     situation in the theatre of war."

 3        A.   Sorry, I couldn't follow because I couldn't find it.

 4        Q.   It's -- the page reference is 6 in B/C/S and then toward the --

 5     in the centre part of this paragraph.  I skipped the part referring to

 6     the RS and the RSK, and it starts --

 7        A.   Oh, yes, I've found it, combat-readiness of the Army of

 8     Yugoslavia.

 9        Q.   Yes, well, do explain to us what that means, combat-readiness --

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Saxon.

11             MR. SAXON:  I'm sorry, very sorry to interrupt.  Mr. Harmon and I

12     are -- have lost the plot.  If you could specific which page we are in

13     the English version.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Welcome to the club.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, well, I didn't want to read.

16     What the page reference is in the English is page 7 and page 8.  It

17     starts at the bottom of page 7.  Let's see whether that is correct.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Where do we find combat-readiness on that page?

19                           [Defence counsel confer]

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] It's been suggested by Mr. Harmon

21     that there are small or slight differences between the interpretation,

22     the live interpretation, and the translation as we can see it in the

23     document.  So I would -- I ask the interpreters to stick to the written

24     translation because I don't think it's wrong.

25        Q.   It says:

Page 10053

 1             "Armed forces of the Serbian people west of the Drina and Danube

 2     rivers, preserve territorial integrity of the RS and RSK" --

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Saxon.

 4             MR. SAXON:  If we could know where Mr. Lukic is right now at

 5     least in the English.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  "Plan of operations and objectives of manoeuvres."

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, exactly, it's heading 2 or

 8     paragraph 2.  [In English] "Plan of operations and objectives ..."

 9             [Interpretation] And if you could turn the page, I don't want to

10     read out the entire document, so the next page of the English version.

11     And in the Serbian version we can read combat-readiness of the Army of

12     Yugoslavia repel a potential aggressor.

13        Q.   I'm interested in the notion of combat-readiness of the VJ.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Now you must tell us where you are.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, you must go back to the previous

16     page in the English because it starts on the previous page.  I wanted to

17     avoid it, but this has already taken more time than it would have if I

18     had read it out all.  Perhaps ... [In English] By combat-readiness of the

19     Yugoslav Army of prevent potential aggressors from endangering

20     territorial --"

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yeah, we're with you.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

23        Q.   So I'm actually only interested in the notion of combat-readiness

24     of the VJ.  What does it include, and what actions of the VJ are meant by

25     that?  What is its task?

Page 10054

 1        A.   In simple terms, the VJ in certain areas must have part of its

 2     forces in full combat-readiness, and combat-readiness can be either

 3     peacetime readiness, heightened combat-readiness, or full

 4     combat-readiness.  Full combat-readiness means that the units are ready

 5     to start carrying out a combat assignment when ordered to do so.

 6        Q.   And what follows now are -- what is envisaged in case of Croatian

 7     aggression.

 8             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] So can we now please see page 8 of

 9     both versions.

10        Q.   Could you now please tell us what the FRY does in that case or is

11     supposed to do.  And I'm going to read it out.  In your version it's on

12     page 7, sir.  Now I'm reading the following:

13             "In the FRY using stand-by forces, close off axes leading from

14     the neighbouring state deep into the territory, vigorously strike at the

15     root potential armed rebellion in crisis areas in the shortest possible

16     time, conduct mobilisation and strategic development, while part of the

17     forces in co-ordinated action with the SVK is to crush the attack of the

18     aggressor in Baranja, Eastern Slavonia, and Western Srem, and the VRS in

19     the Drina Valley and in Eastern Herzegovina."

20             I'll ask a question about what I have just read out.  When

21     Operation Flash happened in May 1995, did the VJ act in accordance with

22     this document?  Did it act in co-ordination with the forces of the SVK?

23        A.   No.

24        Q.   So you -- this may be clear, but let me ask you nonetheless.

25     What does acting and co-ordination mean in military terminology?

Page 10055

 1        A.   In military terminology that means that two neighbouring units,

 2     in this case two neighbouring armies, should jointly act in performing a

 3     mission.

 4        Q.   Are they on equal footing there, or is one subordinated to the

 5     other?

 6        A.   In this case they are on equal footing.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] If you will bear with me for a

 8     second.

 9                           [Defence counsel confer]

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] After the break I will be able to

11     tell whether I have a correction to the transcript.

12        Q.   Now let us look at page 10 of the B/C/S and page 10 of the

13     English.  We are now dealing with the tasks of the armed forces --

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May I just interrupt a little bit.

15             MR. LUKIC:  Yes.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just before you leave this topic.

17             Are you able to tell us, Mr. Simic, why the VJ did not act

18     according to this direction during Operation Flash?

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, it didn't because

20     this document is not the genuine plan of use of the VJ.  It is -- it

21     belongs to the realm of strategic masking and camouflage, which I spoke

22     about.  We looked at the Neva missile system, and this is exactly what we

23     wanted to achieve with this directive as regards the adversary.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  [Microphone not activated]

25             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please.

Page 10056

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You wanted to achieve -- what was achieved by

 2     Operation Flash, that Western Srem and Eastern Slavonia be attacked and

 3     you don't come to the rescue, or am I misunderstanding you?

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'll try to be clearer.  This plan

 5     was made with the attention to deceive.  We wanted to have the adversary

 6     think that Yugoslavia would enter the war if the Croatian army attacks

 7     the Republic of Serbian Krajina, which means that this -- the character

 8     of this plan is a deterrent, just like that model deterred play --

 9     airplanes.  In the same fashion we wanted to threaten the adversary that

10     we would enter the war if they commit an act of aggression against the

11     Republic of Serbia and Krajina.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I see.  So you let this document slip into the

13     hands of the enemy so that he can -- the enemy can see what the

14     camouflage says?

15             JUDGE DAVID:  General --

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, he didn't answer the question.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Just say yes or no.

19             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

20             JUDGE DAVID:  General, you have just said that the two armies

21     participated on equal footing.  Could you elaborate on this.  Is equal

22     footing in practice or in theory?

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We're speaking about three equal

24     armies.  I'm now speaking about the Republic of Serbian Krajina because

25     there is this link with Flash in Western Slavonia.  They are two equal

Page 10057

 1     and separate armies, and co-ordination is achieved between two

 2     neighbours.

 3             JUDGE DAVID:  In your experience, in the various meetings of the

 4     three armies, could you testify that both of -- the three of them acted

 5     on equal footing, that no one of them had more power than the other two?

 6     Or could you identify the one who really carries the power to decide at

 7     the end of the day?

 8             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] In practice every army made

 9     decisions for itself.  The General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia for

10     the Army of Yugoslavia, the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska

11     for its own army, and the Main Staff of the Serb Army of Krajina for its

12     own army.

13             JUDGE DAVID:  I again repeat the question.  If there were no

14     unanimity in the decision to be taken, who was the ruling vote, the

15     deciding hand, if any?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I do beg your pardon.  I did not

17     understand your question.  Does it pertain to this specific directive or

18     to general practice?

19             JUDGE DAVID:  General, you have before said that you had

20     participated in various concerted meetings at various points, you know,

21     or carrying out tasks in relation to these meetings.  My question is:  In

22     cases of discrepancies in formulating plans of actions, directives, and

23     so on, when there was discrepancy how these discrepancies were solved?

24     Was there one predominant voice to decide the issue or not?  Or the three

25     parties were always on equal footing?

Page 10058

 1             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, Judge David, these

 2     armies were always separate and equal.  One was not superior or

 3     subordinate to another.  In your question you mentioned co-ordination.

 4     Let us please bear in mind the following:  Co-ordination is resolved in

 5     terms of a specific moment in life, whereas this is a document that is

 6     done at a very high level.

 7             JUDGE DAVID:  Thank you.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I think you will have to keep your question until

 9     after the break, Mr. Lukic, if you don't mind.

10             And for the sake of the need to do transcript corrections, we'll

11     come back at ten past -- I beg your pardon, at five to 6.00 instead of

12     quarter to.  Court adjourned.

13                           --- Recess taken at 5.24 p.m.

14                           --- On resuming at 5.57 p.m.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic.

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have on our

17     screens -- or rather, I saw a problem in the transcript.  It's nothing

18     drastic so I'm not going to raise the issue.

19        Q.   Page 17 in B/C/S and page 17 in English, General, in your copy

20     it's page 16.

21        A.   I'm sorry, what was the page number?

22        Q.   It says 16 in your document, the last page of the directive.

23     Let's just wait for the English version to appear on our screens.  The

24     document was signed by the president of the Supreme Defence Council,

25     Mr. Zoran Lilic.  That's right, isn't it?  And it has the seal of --

Page 10059

 1     well, I can't see exactly what seal it is, but there is a stamp, a seal,

 2     at any rate, right next to the signature?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   In the English version the signature is on the next page if you

 5     want to have a look at it, but I think that what I discussed just now can

 6     be seen in the B/C/S version.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please move into closed

 8     session for a moment, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the Chamber please move into closed session --

10     closed session, not private.

11             MR. LUKIC:  Closed session.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Closed.

13                           [Closed session]

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 10060











11 Page 10060 redacted. Closed session.















Page 10061

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8                           [Open session]

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, we're now in open session.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

11             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

13        Q.   You said that one plan of use has three elements; namely, a

14     directive, a map decision, and an action plan.  Did I remember that

15     right?

16        A.   Mr. Lukic, these are three basic parts from which the

17     operationalisation of all other attachments is derived.  This is just one

18     that we've read out, but at any rate it is the most important part of the

19     directive.  I stand corrected, the main part of the plan of use.

20        Q.   Now we are going to look at Prosecution Exhibit P1563.  Could we

21     please have page 10 on our screens.  The witness is going to tell us what

22     this is, and then I'm going to tell you, Your Honours, what my intention

23     was, how I'm going to do this with the witness.  I hope that the

24     Trial Chamber will find this to be of benefit.

25             Would you just tell us, General, what this is.  We are going to

Page 10062

 1     zoom in a bit.

 2        A.   This is from the directive, and it is entitled - you can read it

 3     up here - "Expected Model Of Attack."  This is related to the air force.

 4             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, there is an English

 5     translation of the text on the map, but I'm afraid that you will not be

 6     able to follow this.  I would suggest that we read what these parts of

 7     the map say and it's going to be easier for you to follow in this way

 8     what it is that I want to put to the witness.

 9             Can we have a look at page 9 of this document.  On the other

10     pages we actually see parts of the map.  Right.

11        Q.   Now, General, you see this down here, what does it say?  Who is

12     the signatory, and has this document been signed at all?

13        A.   This document was written up by an air-force man, commander of

14     the RV and the PVO of the air force, Major-General Milivoj Pavlovic.

15        Q.   Just take it easy.  Did he sign this part here?

16        A.   Yes, yes.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Now could we have page 6 of this

18     document.

19        Q.   Who was supposed to approve this document?  I'm going to read

20     this out -- or rather, you read out what is written in the upper

21     left-hand corner.

22        A.    "I hereby approve, Chief of Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia,

23     Lieutenant-General Momcilo Perisic."

24        Q.   Did he sign this document?

25        A.   More specifically, whether he approved it; no, he did not approve

Page 10063

 1     this document because he did not sign it.

 2        Q.   Thank you.

 3             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now have page 19 of this

 4     exhibit, could we have a look at that.

 5        Q.   Could you please read out what is written there or perhaps if

 6     it's easier for you I can read it out.

 7        A.   "Decision for the joint use of armed forces."

 8        Q.   Was this document signed anywhere?

 9        A.   I cannot see.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please go back to page 18 now.

11        Q.   Do you see anything here?

12        A.   No, but I assume and know that it was not approved.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we have page 24, please.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  [Microphone not activated]

15             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please, for Judge Moloto.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry.

17             You can't assume and know, you either assume or you know.

18             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I assume from the point of view

19     that I did not see it on the screen, and I know that the -- that it was

20     not approved.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I still say you can't do both.  You either know or

22     you don't know.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I know.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You know?

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

Page 10064

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 2             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] This document is entitled "Plan of

 3     use of forces of the air force and air support against 'D.'"

 4        Q.   Is that right?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we now see page 20 of this

 7     document where a certain part is enlarged.

 8        Q.   In the left-hand corner it says:  "I hereby approve, Chief of

 9     General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia, Lieutenant-General Momcilo

10     Perisic."

11             Is his signature there?

12        A.   No.

13        Q.   General, in order for this directive to be carried out in

14     practice, what else had to be done after this directive had been written

15     up so that the plan of use could function?

16        A.   In order for the plan of use to be valid and for it to be able to

17     take effect if necessary, as I've already said, this textual part has to

18     be materialised through the decision and the action plan.  Through the

19     other attachments it should be operationalised in greater detail, or

20     rather, the set tasks should be operationalised.  We can see here that

21     the participants in the elaboration of this document signed this

22     document, but it was not approved by the Chief of General Staff.  When I

23     spoke about plans of use, I said that a decision has to be approved by

24     the president and the plan has to be signed by the assistant Chief of

25     General Staff and approved by the Chief of General Staff.  In this

Page 10065

 1     specific case the directive was signed by the president of the Supreme

 2     Defence Council, but all other necessary documents, I mean for the plan

 3     to -- or rather, in order to make it possible for those who are supposed

 4     to carry out -- to carry it out in that way, it was simply not

 5     elaborated.

 6        Q.   Just a moment, please.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sorry, I'm sorry, can we see where the

 8     participants in the elaboration of this document signed, please.  If you

 9     can scroll, let's see where the signatures are on this document.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] If we go back to page 24, I believe

11     that you --

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sorry, Mr. Lukic.  The witness is talking

13     about this page, and he's saying that the participants in the elaboration

14     signed this page, and I want to see the signature of this page.

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, that's what I wanted.  I --

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You say we must go to another page.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] That's because the image that we saw

18     earlier is just one enlarged portion of this, which is the whole

19     document.  This is the whole map and what we saw earlier was only part of

20     it.  I believe that the witness will be able to provide an answer and now

21     that he can see the entire map.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.

23             Who are the signatories, Mr. Simic?

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this is the plan of

25     use for the forces of the anti-aircraft defence, and it was signed by the

Page 10066

 1     commander of the air force and anti-aircraft defence, Major-General

 2     Milivoj Pavlovic, commander of the air force and anti-aircraft defence as

 3     I said.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 5             You may proceed.

 6             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

 7        Q.   Before the break you were explaining to Judge Moloto, following

 8     up on my question about Operation Flash why no action was taken, and you

 9     answered that question.  While you were working on this document, did you

10     believe that you were working on a genuine plan of use.

11        A.   From the very beginning of my work on this plan, I fostered some

12     doubts as to the seriousness of these documents because the methodology

13     of working out a war plan or plan of use was not adhered to.  When I

14     spoke generally about a plan of use, I said that there must be an

15     organisational order which regulates what is to be done, by who, where,

16     how, et cetera.  And that all participants were required to sign special

17     declarations about keeping state secrets, just as I made a solemn

18     declaration here.  But that wasn't respected.

19        Q.   Just a minute.  I have a follow-up question.  Does that mean that

20     you, participants who were working on this document, did not sign such

21     solemn declarations as are usually signed before starting work on a plan

22     of use?

23        A.   Yes, and once we had elaborated the directive and these few

24     attachments, subsequent work was interrupted suddenly.  I knew that

25     something was wrong, and I asked my superior officer, the late General

Page 10067

 1     Kovacevic, I asked him jokingly, "Blagoje, what is this about?"  And he

 2     replied to me calmly, "Simke you know the same that I know, and don't ask

 3     questions, do what you're told to do."  And then I understood that

 4     something was wrong with regard to the completeness and the seriousness

 5     of the plan.

 6        Q.   Did any part of the Drina plan ever become effective in the VJ

 7     from 1993 on?

 8        A.   From this plan, no.

 9        Q.   When you replied to Judge Moloto about strategic camouflage, did

10     anybody tell you that the idea behind this plan was strategic camouflage,

11     or was something else the matter?

12        A.   This is camouflage at the highest strategic level so that only

13     the Supreme Defence Council and possibly the Chief of General Staff were

14     the only ones that were privy to the real intentions behind this plan.

15     Nobody else was allowed to know what objective -- what the objective of

16     this plan was.  If it hadn't been that way, the goal of deception

17     couldn't have been achieved.

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted) And finally, none of those who should have been tasked with

25     implementing the plan was ever sent an extract to enable them to

Page 10068

 1     elaborate their own plans.  While I was working on this, I did not know

 2     that the real intention was deception, but later on Flash, Storm, and

 3     what is written there clearly indicated to me that the high state

 4     authorities wanted to deter Croatia from attacking the RSK in this

 5     manner.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry --

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I would request a correction on page

 8     61 of the transcript from lines 12 till line 16.  Only that should be

 9     redacted.  We can leave the rest.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  You want a redaction of lines 12 to 16 on

11     page 61?  Can we do that, please?

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Up to line 16.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But, Mr. Simic, if I understand how your testimony

14     thus far, you can't say while I was working on this, I did not know that

15     the real intention was deception.  You must have known right from the

16     beginning, and I'll tell you why, which is one of the reasons you've

17     given us why you say this was deception, because you didn't make a

18     declaration before you did this job, number one.  At the end, the chief

19     of the General Staff didn't sign this plan.  So in addition to the couple

20     of reasons that you have given us is that two other reasons, one of which

21     you were aware of before you started the job, so you knew at the

22     beginning that this was camouflage because you did not make a declaration

23     before you started the job.  Am I right?

24             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, not fully.  When I

25     with my colleagues started elaborating this plan, nobody told me

Page 10069

 1     explicitly, "You are working on a plan of deception," because if that had

 2     been communicated to a group of people, the purpose of the plan couldn't

 3     have been achieved.  The intelligence services would have come by the

 4     information that this is a plan for deception purposes, but even then I

 5     had my doubts, or rather, I had some knowledge about that being the case.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I understand all that, Mr. Simic.  All I'm saying

 7     is that from the position you held and from your general knowledge of the

 8     procedures for a genuine plan you knew that for a genuine plan before the

 9     participants can participate they make a solemn declaration to keep state

10     secrets.  You were not made to make such a declaration when you started

11     this job.  So from your general knowledge you could assess, even as you

12     asked your superior, Kovacevic, "What is this for," I'm sure it was a

13     rhetorical question.  You knew that this was not genuine based on your

14     own evidence.

15             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I agree with you, Your Honour, that

16     I knew it at the time.  But nobody had told me so explicitly from above,

17     no one -- none of my superiors.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I suspect that, because as you rightly say if

19     anybody told you then it defeats the whole purpose of the plan.  So

20     you've got to read in between the lines, and as a senior officer, I'm

21     sure it was virtually on the lines for you, not in between.

22                           [Trial Chamber confers]

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Lukic, you may proceed.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have finished with this document.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Lukic.

Page 10070

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

 2        Q.   General, have you heard of the Gvozd plan?

 3        A.   No, except during the proofing with you.

 4        Q.   Before I showed you the document we're about to discuss, you had

 5     never heard about it?

 6        A.   No.

 7             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we see document P494 on the

 8     screen.  I again have a hard copy for General Simic.

 9        Q.   Let's wait for it to appear on the screen.  General, as compared

10     to the document that we saw earlier, the Drina directive, please look at

11     page 1 here and tell us whether you see any differences between this

12     document and that one when it comes to the format of the first page.

13        A.   Page 1 is exactly the same as that of any directive.

14        Q.   Does this directive have a registry stamp?

15        A.   Yes, it can be on the cover page, but it can also be inside the

16     directive.  But there is no stamp showing that it was registered.

17        Q.   In the Drina directive we saw the stamp of your first

18     administration, but we cannot see one here.  Please turn to page 18 of

19     the B/C/S version.  I believe that I got the page right this time.  It's

20     the last-but-one page.  It's page 19 in the B/C/S.  In the English we'll

21     find it, it's the last-but-one page.  Yes.

22             We have seen on the Drina directive a signature and a round

23     stamp.  Does this document also bear a round stamp?

24        A.   No, not only is the round stamp missing, which round stamp means

25     the verification of the validity of the document, but there's also the

Page 10071

 1     name of the supreme commander of the SVK missing because his name should

 2     have been mentioned.

 3        Q.   I believe that a short while ago when you were answering

 4     questions about the Drina plan and the rules as governing the number of

 5     copies of the plan to be produced, are such rules in force for all plans

 6     and directives?

 7        A.   I mentioned that a directive is made for either the entire war or

 8     for a longer period of the war and reflects the positions of the highest

 9     authorities of the state with regard to the waging of war.  This

10     directive is made operational by orders issued by lower levels.

11        Q.   Is it in accordance with this doctrine that copies are produced

12     without an indication which copy it is out of how many.  Maybe we can

13     return to the cover page.  Wait a minute, please.  The Trial Chamber must

14     be able to see.  Let us see the cover page in the B/C/S also.

15             With regard to the importance of such a document, can such a

16     document be produced without an indication of which copy it is out of how

17     many?

18        A.   I've already mentioned that a directive is made in two copies.

19     And in case of war activities, one copy is kept in the principal command

20     post and another copy in the secondary command post if one of them should

21     be destroyed.

22        Q.   Is the number indicating which copy it is mentioned on each such

23     document?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   You were able to read the document while I was showing it to you.

Page 10072

 1     Do you know, General, whether anybody from the General Staff of the VJ

 2     from your administration took part in the production of this document --

 3     but no, you said that you knew nothing about the document.  Do you know

 4     that any of your subordinates went to co-operate with anybody from the

 5     SVK in making such a directive?

 6        A.   No, nobody from the first administration went to work on such a

 7     document, otherwise I would have had to know because an order of mine was

 8     required for them to be able to go there and carry out their task.

 9        Q.   Did anybody else in the General Staff of the VJ work on such

10     documents without belonging to the first administration?

11        A.   This is the main task of the first administration, and no one

12     else can go and work on such documents.

13             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have the last page in

14     B/C/S and in English.  I haven't got the number, but I hope we'll find

15     our way.  I think it's page 20.

16        Q.   Now, in this document, General, certain units are mentioned.  You

17     see here in line 2 -- well, actually why don't you read these numbers

18     slowly because there are a lot of abbreviations here, and please tell us

19     whose units they are, the units mentioned there.

20        A.   In this specific document that I have in my hands it is stated

21     that this is an annex to the plan of use of the Serbian army of Krajina,

22     and in the task for the 11th Corps it says, The 11th Corps with

23     Operations Group 2 (18th and 138th Motorised Brigade, 453rd, and 1st

24     Armoured Brigade, 51st Mechanised Brigade, 16th Motorised Brigade, 12th

25     Mixed Anti-tank Artillery Battalion, 1st Artillery Battalion of the 240th

Page 10073

 1     medium self-propelled air defence rocket regiment, and 155th Light

 2     Infantry Brigade).  Obviously this is some kind of a newly-formed command

 3     of a temporary composition, that's why it was called Operations Group 2.

 4     These units are units of the Army of Yugoslavia, more specifically of the

 5     Novi Sad Corps of the Army of Yugoslavia.

 6        Q.   Let us be specific.  This 11th Corps that is mentioned in the

 7     beginning.

 8        A.   The 11th Corps is a corps of the Serb army of Krajina.  However,

 9     according to this annex the commander, or rather, the elaborating party

10     reinforced that corps with an operations group consisting of these units

11     that I mentioned, that I read out.

12        Q.   Do you know, General, whether any one of the units mentioned here

13     ever received this document or excerpts from this document on the basis

14     of which they would know what their possible task might be?

15        A.   According to the methodology of work, this 11th Corps which got

16     this operative group on the basis of this document would have to go to

17     its own plan of use and provide an extract from it to the commander of

18     the operations group so that that commander of the operations group could

19     work out an order for the implementation of this task for each and every

20     one of the units mentioned.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I appreciate that you might probably be

22     understanding each other, but, Mr. Simic, can I ask you to please listen

23     very carefully to the questions put to you and answer the question that

24     is put to you.  The question put to you is:  Did any one of these

25     components of the operation group receive either this document or

Page 10074

 1     excerpts from this document so that he or she knows what his task is

 2     supposed to be?  Now, a direct answer to that question is:  Yes, somebody

 3     did receive; or no, nobody received it; or I don't know.  That long

 4     sentence that you gave really -- it skirts around the question, and we

 5     never know what the actual answer to the question is.  It makes it very

 6     difficult at the end of the day to know what you actually intended to

 7     say.  And we rely on what you are telling us to come to a conclusion at

 8     the end of this case.

 9             Now, can you answer that question:  Did any one of the components

10     of the operational group receive this document or excerpts from this

11     document so that he or she knows what his task is going to be to the best

12     of your knowledge?

13             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honour, there was no command

14     of Operations Group 2, and none of these units received any extracts

15     regarding this task.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

17             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

18        Q.   General Simic, please just give me a yes or a no now in response

19     to my next question.  Your operations administration, would it have to

20     have information of this nature if your VJ units were to be attached to

21     someone else?  Just say yes or no.

22        A.   Yes.

23        Q.   Did you have any information about that?

24        A.   No.

25        Q.   Thank you.  Is there anything else here - I don't want to

Page 10075

 1     lead - but is there anything else on this page, in this document, that is

 2     contrary to military doctrine?

 3        A.   In the composition of units of this operation group 2 there is a

 4     reference to the 16th Motorised Brigade.  And towards the bottom the

 5     penultimate sentence says, Support AV and PVO and 16th Motorised Brigade.

 6     This has to do with support.  A motorised brigade cannot provide support

 7     if it's a motorised brigade.  What he probably meant was the 16th

 8     Artillery Brigade --

 9        Q.   We are not going to speculate now.  Can one and the same unit be

10     both in an operations group and in the support force?

11        A.   No.

12        Q.   Thank you.  I'm done in this document.  Let us move on.  We're

13     going to move on to a completely different subject.

14             General, are you tired?  Can we continue working?

15        A.   It's not for me to decide about that.  It is for the honourable

16     Trial Chamber.

17        Q.   All right.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  If you say you are tired, we will take that into

19     account.  We have 15 minutes to go before we end the day.  Can you carry

20     on for another 15 minutes?

21             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if you can, I can

22     too.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I can.

24             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

25        Q.   Very well.  General, we have quite a few documents, and I would

Page 10076

 1     like to move through them quickly.  We are going back to the operations

 2     centre to specific information and specific reports.  I'm going to show

 3     you document -- it's from the Defence 65 ter list 00668D -- actually,

 4     since I'm sure that we're going to be dealing with these documents

 5     tomorrow as well, but if the Prosecutor agrees, could we have an entire

 6     set of documents placed before Mr. Simic because he will have to deal

 7     with a series of very short documents?

 8             MR. SAXON:  It would be helpful if we could see them one at a

 9     time, Your Honour.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] That's what I meant, but I thought

11     that the entire set of documents should be there with Mr. Simic so that

12     we wouldn't have to go all the way through the courtroom rather than

13     giving them to him one by one.

14             MR. SAXON:  [Previous translation continues]...

15             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I thought the OTP could have a look.

16     Yes, that's right, yes, yes.  A few today.  Right.  Thank you.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Let me just understand you.  You're not suggesting

18     that we give him those documents overnight.  You're suggesting that

19     tomorrow you give him a batch of documents which the Prosecution will

20     have seen --

21             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes, yes, yes.  Yes, tomorrow, that's

22     right.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Bear in mind you've got to give them an

24     opportunity to go through those documents first.

25             MR. LUKIC:  Yes, Your Honour.

Page 10077

 1             [Interpretation] We've already provided them with a list and they

 2     are aware of it.

 3        Q.   Mr. Simic, let us look at this document in front of you.  What is

 4     this?  Actually, my first question is:  What is this?

 5        A.   This document is information from the intelligence

 6     administration.

 7        Q.   Very well.  Who is it being provided to?  You can see it down

 8     here?

 9        A.   Submitted to the Chief of General Staff of the Army of

10     Yugoslavia, the operations centre of the General Staff of the Army of

11     Yugoslavia, and intelligence organs of the commands of armies and the

12     immediate subordinate units related to the Chief of General Staff.

13        Q.   Is this information one of the sources that later becomes part of

14     what is known as the daily operations report of the operations centre?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   The information is dated the 1st of May, 1995.  Do you know what

17     it refers to?  Just one sentence?

18        A.   I know that at that time the aggression against Western Slavonia,

19     the Republic of Serb Krajina took place.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please receive a number for

21     this document.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

23     please be given an exhibit number.

24             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit Number D212.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

Page 10078

 1             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The next document I'd like to show to

 2     the General is [In English] 65 ter 00669D.

 3             [Interpretation] Let us just wait for the document so that the

 4     Trial Chamber can follow.

 5        Q.   This is a document similar to the previous one.  It also pertains

 6     to the same period.  Let us just clarify this for the Trial Chamber.

 7     Where can we see on this document that your operations centre is a

 8     recipient of this document too?

 9        A.   Down here in the lower left-hand corner it says, OC of the

10     General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia.

11        Q.   Very well.

12             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could this document please receive a

13     number and then we can move on.  We don't need to comment upon it for the

14     time being.  I think that this will do for the time being, and then we'll

15     deal with other documents.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

17     please be given an exhibit number.

18             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that is Exhibit Number D213.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

20             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

21             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] The next document is 65 ter number

22     [In English] 00695D.

23        Q.   [Interpretation] I would like us to comment upon this document.

24     It says here, Report, and the previous document said, Information.  In

25     essence is this something we should pay attention to or not?  It's the

Page 10079

 1     second administration again, right, the intelligence information that is

 2     providing this document, and it was submitted to your centre?  It's not

 3     that I want to lead but --

 4        A.   Yes.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Where do we see that?

 6             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] If you scroll down the English

 7     version.  I don't want to lead.  The next page, Your Honour.  Do you see

 8     the end?

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

11        Q.   General, sorry, we'll have to deal with this document a bit

12     longer.  Why is this document called Report and the previous one was

13     called Information?  Do you know anything about that?

14        A.   In essence there is no difference between information and

15     intelligence report.  That was information due to the urgency of the

16     problem at hand, and it is sent to the Chief of General Staff.  So

17     therefore, it has more specific weight in terms of the security of the

18     Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.  Here the processing person thought that

19     that was not the case and he simply sent it to the operations centre and

20     through the daily operations -- through the daily operations report, the

21     Chief of General Staff will be made aware of it.

22             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we have the previous English

23     page back, and I'm going to read one sentence out.  The date of this

24     document is the 7th of July, 1995, and we see that there is a reference

25     to the forces of the 1st Corps of the Muslim army, right, and then there

Page 10080

 1     is the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th, and 7th Corps of the Muslim army.  And now the

 2     sentence says -- the sentence I'm interested in is the following one.

 3             Your Honours, it's towards the middle of the page.

 4             "The Muslim forces in the enclaves of Gorazde, Zepa, and

 5     Srebrenica are maintaining a high level of combat-readiness and have

 6     intensified reconnaissance, sabotage, and surprise operations against the

 7     VRS."

 8             That's what is written here.  I had to read this so that we don't

 9     have to put the document here twice.  The information from this document,

10     is it entered into the daily operations report as deemed relevant by the

11     processing party?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Now we're going to look at the daily operations report of that

14     day, but first could we have an exhibit number for this document?

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The document is admitted into evidence.  May it

16     please be given an exhibit number.

17             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit Number D214.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

19             Yes, Mr. Lukic.

20             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]

21        Q.   So this was a document dated the 7th of July, 1995.  Now let us

22     look at [In English] 00489D.  [Interpretation] It's a document from the

23     65 ter list of the Defence.  I thought this was a document that is

24     directly linked to the previous one, but no, it's another.  You are about

25     to receive the next document, sir.

Page 10081

 1             Let us now wait for the document to appear to enable the

 2     Trial Chamber to look at it.

 3             General, this is what we have mentioned several times, both

 4     yesterday and today.  What kind of document is this, judging by its

 5     format, and what does such a document contain?

 6        A.   This is a daily operations report which is made in the operations

 7     centre of the General Staff of the VJ.  It contains under 1, the

 8     activities of the armed forces of neighbouring countries; under 2,

 9     situation along the state border; and then it deals with attempts to

10     cross the border illegally; under 3, we can see the situation,

11     activities, and changes in the units of the VJ.  Here in this item the

12     units mentioned are the 1st Army and others.  Under 4, we can see

13     extraordinary events, and there was one such event in the 2nd Army.

14     There was an extraordinary event in the General Staff and then there were

15     searches and the conclusion.

16        Q.   Is this a format according to which every daily operations report

17     was made?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   And can we see the time-period covered by the report?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   I would just ask you for a comment about this document.  This is

22     dated the 9th of July, 1995, and the activities of the armed forces of

23     neighbouring countries are also mentioned.  But what I'm really

24     interested in is the situation on the state border.  Under 2 it says:

25             "On the 8th of July the monitoring mission of the UN visited the

Page 10082

 1     border post of Zavina of the 16th Battalion from Bajina Basta and they

 2     had no remarks or no objections."

 3             Where is Bajina Basta, which country does it border on?

 4        A.   The small town of Bajina Basta is in the valley of the Drina

 5     River which is western Serbia.  It borders on the Republika Srpska.  And

 6     we received this report from the 1st Army as this border battalion, the

 7     16th, the command of which is in Bajina Basta, sent it to the command of

 8     the army, and we extracted it from there.

 9        Q.   All right.

10             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we get an exhibit number for this

11     document, please.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The exhibit is admitted into evidence.  May it

13     please be given an exhibit number.

14             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D215.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

16             MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we break for today, Your Honour?

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sure we can, Mr. Lukic.

18             Mr. Simic, I know you know, however, it is my duty to warn you

19     again that you may not talk to anybody while you are in the witness stand

20     about the case, and especially your lawyers.

21             We'll come back in the same court tomorrow at quarter past 2.00

22     in the afternoon.  Court adjourned.

23                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.02 p.m.,

24                           to be reconvened on Thursday, the 25th day of

25                           February, 2010, at 2.15 p.m.