Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 11115

 1                           Friday, 19 March 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning to everybody in and around the

 7     courtroom.

 8             Mr. Registrar, please call the case.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.

10             Good morning, everybody in and around the courtroom.

11             This is case number IT-04-81-T, the Prosecutor versus

12     Momcilo Perisic.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

14             Could we have the appearance for the day, please, starting with

15     the Prosecution.

16             MR. THOMAS:  Good morning, Your Honours.

17             Good morning, Mr. Jevdjevic and everybody in and around the

18     courtroom.  Carmela Javier, Barney Thomas, and Salvatore Cannata for the

19     Prosecution.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.  And for the Defence.

21             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Good morning to all.  Tina Drolec,

22     Gregor Guy-Smith, and Chad Mair on behalf of Mr. Perisic.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

24             Just to say, for the record, that we are sitting 15 bis this

25     morning because of an emergency that Judge David has to attend to.

Page 11116

 1                           WITNESS:  MILENKO JEVDJEVIC [Resumed]

 2                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning, Mr. Jevdjevic.

 4             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I hope you have had a good rest last night.  Just

 6     to warn you that you are still bound by the declaration you made at the

 7     beginning of your testimony to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

 8     nothing else but the truth.

 9             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

11             Mr. Thomas.

12             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honours.

13                           Cross-examination by Mr. Thomas:

14        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, I know you've testified for the Defence in the

15     Krstic and Popovic cases.  You understand the process that begins now.  I

16     represent the Prosecution.  I have the opportunity to ask you some

17     questions relating to the testimony that you gave yesterday.  Please

18     listen carefully to my questions, answer only my questions, and if you

19     are in any doubt about what I'm asking, please -- or if you don't

20     understand what I'm asking you, please let me know and I will ask you the

21     question another way.  All right, are we clear?

22        A.   Yes, very well.

23             MR. THOMAS:  Can we please begin with Exhibit P149.  If we could

24     have that on the screen, please.

25        Q.   Sir, this was a document that you were asked about yesterday.

Page 11117

 1             MR. THOMAS:  And if we could just begin with the first page,

 2     Mr. Registrar.

 3        Q.   You will see from the first page -- you had not seen this

 4     document before yesterday, but you will see from the first page that it

 5     is an analysis of the combat readiness and activities of the VRS in 1992.

 6     You'll see that that analysis is dated April 1993.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  If we could turn, please, to page 4 in the English

 8     and page 5 in the B/C/S.

 9        Q.   You will see in the top left-hand corner that the analysis has

10     been approved by the commander of the VRS, General Mladic.  Do you see

11     that?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   All right.  You spoke about several passages relating to

14     radio-relay communications yesterday, and I want to explore that a little

15     further with you, please.

16             MR. THOMAS:  Could we turn to page 33 in the English and page 31

17     in the B/C/S.

18        Q.   Now, sir, do you see the heading "Radio-Relay Communications"?

19        A.   Yes, I do.  But if possible, could I have a hard copy of this

20     document, because it's very difficult for me to read it on the screen.  I

21     can't read it fast enough and efficiently enough.  If possible.

22             MR. MAIR:  Mr. Thomas that document is in the binder that the

23     witness had yesterday, so --

24             MR. THOMAS:  Okay.  Well, no problem with the binder being

25     provided, and I'm grateful to my learned friend.

Page 11118

 1             MR. MAIR:  And that will be tab 24.

 2             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thanks, Mr. Mair.

 4             MR. THOMAS:  And Your Honours, for your assistance, I wish to

 5     discuss with the witness or at least draw his attention to the -- the

 6     four paragraphs following the heading "Radio-Relay Communications."

 7        Q.   Have you found the -- the page, Mr. Jevdjevic?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   Just to yourself, please, can you read -- let's begin with the

10     first three paragraphs.  Just read those quietly to yourself for a

11     moment.

12        A.   I've read it.

13        Q.   Now, I take it, sir, that you -- you do not disagree with what is

14     contained in those three paragraphs in the analysis approved by

15     General Mladic?

16        A.   I assume that that should be the case, yes.

17        Q.   Okay.  Can you read the next paragraph, which begins "The Army of

18     Yugoslavia," to yourself, please.

19        A.   I have read it.

20        Q.   Okay.  Again, sir, I take it you do not disagree with that

21     paragraph?

22        A.   I do not disagree with this paragraph.  I would like to explain

23     the gist of it, if you allow me.

24        Q.   Well, let me -- I have some questions to ask about the paragraph,

25     sir, so let's deal with my questions first.

Page 11119

 1             You will see in the paragraph that there is reference to the

 2     Yugoslav Army making available a number of connecting pathways and

 3     available capacities of its communication channels at FRY stationary

 4     communication hubs.  You see that reference?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   Particularly, sir, are we talking about the Crni Vrh and

 7     Strazbenica hubs?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   I want to deal with each of those one at a time.  First, the Cer

10     communication hub -- or "Cer" I think it's properly pronounced.  First of

11     all, that is located on the territory of the Republic of Serbia, isn't

12     it?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   And is this communications hub a communications -- a stationary

15     communications node or a stationary communications centre?

16        A.   It's a stationary communications node or hub.

17        Q.   Okay.  Now, the second one I mentioned is Crni Vrh.  First of

18     all, Crni Vrh refers to the mountain atop which this particular

19     communications hub is positioned; is that right?

20        A.   Yes.  Both are on top of the mountain.

21        Q.   We see reference in certain communications charts and

22     communications documentation to a place called Gucevo.  Is Gucevo the

23     village or the area, rather, where Crni Vrh is positioned?

24        A.   The smaller mountain is called Gucevo, and the top of that

25     mountain is called Crni Vrh.

Page 11120

 1        Q.   So where we see Crni Vrh and Gucevo referred to in a

 2     communications context, they effectively mean the same thing.  We're

 3     talking about the same communications hub; is that right?

 4        A.   More or less.  It's the same area as far as communications go.

 5     At Gucevo there were probably other communications equipment belonging to

 6     others, but yes, yes, the reference is the same.

 7        Q.   All right.  And, again, in relation to -- in relation to

 8     Crni Vrh, are we talking about a stationary communications node or a

 9     centre?

10        A.   The stationary communications node.

11        Q.   All right.  The third hub that I mentioned was Strazbenica, and

12     can you confirm for us that that is positioned on the territory of

13     Montenegro?

14        A.   As far as I have been able to follow, we are speaking of two, not

15     three.  One is Crni Vrh which is the top of mount Gucevo.  That's one and

16     the same thing.  And the second is Strazbenica.  I don't know what the

17     third one would be.

18        Q.   Okay.  I'm moving on now from Cer and Crni Vrh.  I want to talk

19     now about the communications hub at Strazbenica.  And you will be aware

20     of communications hub at Strazbenica?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   And it is hub positioned on the territory of Montenegro?

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   Again, is this a stationary communications hub or a stationary

25     communications centre?

Page 11121

 1        A.   It's a stationary communications hub.

 2        Q.   Okay.  I want you, please, to look at the next paragraph, please.

 3             MR. THOMAS:  And in the English, Your Honours, we will need to go

 4     to the next page.

 5             MR. MAIR:  If I might, the witness had expressed an interest to

 6     comment on the paragraph.  Mr. Thomas, you said that you would like to

 7     ask your questions first, which implied that he might still be allowed to

 8     comment.  I'm not sure if the witness has done so.  I understand I could

 9     do it on redirect, but it might be more appropriate to just deal with it

10     while we're on that paragraph.

11             MR. THOMAS:

12        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, yes, before we leave the paragraph beginning "The

13     Army of Yugoslavia," and in relation to the questions I asked you about

14     that paragraph, is there anything you want to add?

15        A.   While you were putting your questions to me, we were talking

16     about the stationary hubs of Crni Vrh and Strazbenica.  Later on, you

17     mentioned Cer, which you had not mentioned before.  There were three

18     stationary communications hubs on the territory of Serbia by means of

19     which there were transit communication channels that were used,

20     radio-relay communications.  The stationary hubs were used for the

21     transit of certain communication channels.  They were used when no other

22     connecting pathway was possible in view of optical visibility.  That was

23     one of the properties of radio-relay communications I spoke about

24     yesterday.  That's why the VRS used this; just as, for example, if you

25     have a plot of land, other users may be allowed passage.  So the VRS used

Page 11122

 1     the extra capacities or free capacities of the JNA communications so that

 2     some of the channels or connecting pathways could pass through those

 3     nodes and be reflected as in a mirror back onto the territory of

 4     Republika Srpska.  That's the way in which these hubs were used.

 5             So these were unused capacities that we were able to use.  It's

 6     like -- it's like having a right-of-way over somebody else's meadow, for

 7     example.  We didn't have any other way to do this because we needed

 8     optical visibility.  So those communications would be reflected back onto

 9     our side.

10        Q.   All right.  Let me -- let me just discuss that with you for a

11     moment so that I understand what you've said.

12             Depending on the terrain, for example, there might be situations

13     where VRS units could not communicate with each other because there would

14     not be direct optical or uninterrupted optical visibility between two VRS

15     nodes; is that right?

16        A.   That's right, yes.

17        Q.   And on those occasions, for the VRS units' concern to be able to

18     communicate with each other, are you saying that radio-relay messages

19     would have to be transmitted using the towers also on the territory of

20     the Republic of Serbia and they would ultimately make their way back into

21     the territory of the RS and picked up by the VRS units wanting to

22     retrieve or receive that communication; is that right?

23        A.   That's right, yes.

24        Q.   And I take it that encryption was used on these -- on the

25     radio-relay routes that passed through the FRY?

Page 11123

 1        A.   No.  Those communications were only transiting, only passing

 2     through like a car passing along somebody else's approach road.  So it's

 3     just transit.

 4        Q.   I -- I understand that, but at the time the message is

 5     transmitted by the first VRS unit, it is encrypted; is that right?  Or

 6     there was that capacity?

 7        A.   The message was encrypted, and it could only be decrypted at its

 8     ultimate destination, not while in transit.

 9        Q.   I understand.  Within the Drina Corps, there were units who did

10     not have optical line of sight with each other, wasn't there?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   So within the Drina Corps, if a certain unit, for example the

13     Zvornik Brigade, wished to communicate with the Drina Corps command,

14     those radio-relay communications would have to pass through the route

15     that you have described, through Crni Vrh, Cer, and back into the RS,

16     wouldn't it?

17        A.   Yes, that's right.

18        Q.   Okay.  Specifically the Zvornik Brigade -- before we go -- I'm

19     sorry.  I'll start again.

20             The main hub in the VRS was Veliki Zep; is that right?

21        A.   Zep, yes, that's correct.

22        Q.   And this was a large communications centre on the territory of

23     the Republika Srpska; is that right?

24        A.   Yes.

25        Q.   The Drina Corps had a direct -- sorry, the Drina Corps command

Page 11124

 1     had a direct link with that communications centre?

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   The VRS main -- and before we move from there, the Drina Corps

 4     was garrisoned at Vlasenica?  The corps command was at Vlasenica?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   We have the VRS Main Staff at Crna Rijeka?

 7        A.   Yes.

 8        Q.   And the VRS Main Staff also had it's own direct link with the

 9     communications hub at Zep; is that right?  At Zep.

10        A.   Yes.  That link was actually by means of an underground table.

11        Q.   Okay.  So, for example, for the Drina Corps command to

12     communicate with the Zvornik Brigade, the radio-relay communication would

13     have to go from the Drina Corps command at Vlasenica to Zep, first of

14     all?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   Then to the Cer station in Serbia?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   Then to the Crni Vrh station in Serbia?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   And then back across the border to Zvornik?

21        A.   Yes.

22        Q.   Okay.  In respect of other brigades, we had a similar situation

23     where the Strazbenica radio-relay communications centre was used, don't

24     we?

25        A.   Yes.  It was used for only one brigade.

Page 11125

 1        Q.   And which brigade was that?

 2        A.   The Rogatica Brigade.

 3        Q.   So in that case, communications between the Drina Corps command

 4     or the Main Staff of the VRS would be from each of those units, firstly

 5     to Zep?

 6        A.   Yes.

 7        Q.   Then through the Strazbenica centre in Montenegro?

 8        A.   Yes.

 9        Q.   And then back across the border to Rogatica?

10        A.   Yes.  It's very important to point out that the communications

11     were encrypted in Vlasenica, and no one was able to decrypt it in all

12     these hubs until it arrived at its ultimate destination in the Rogatica

13     Brigade of the VRS.  It was only they who could decrypt the telegram,

14     because it only transited through all of these hubs.

15        Q.   I understand.

16             MR. THOMAS:  If you turn over the next page, please,

17     Mr. Registrar, in the English.

18        Q.   And, Mr. Jevdjevic, if you could go to the next paragraph in the

19     version you have in front of you, you will see a paragraph regarding --

20     well, you'll see the paragraph.  Read it to yourself.

21             "These simultaneous transmission radio-relay communications

22     links ..."

23        A.   I've read it.

24        Q.   I take it you also agree with this paragraph?

25        A.   Yes.

Page 11126

 1        Q.   All right.  Was it -- excuse me.  You've described the encryption

 2     of communications travelling across the radio-relay routes that we've

 3     described.  Was it both oral communication and written communications

 4     that was encrypted?

 5        A.   It was only written communications that were encrypted, and in

 6     part oral communications were also encrypted.

 7        Q.   And what would -- okay.  All right.  Now, we've spoken about this

 8     just a little bit, but if we go to the last paragraph before the heading

 9     "Radio Communication," which reads "Other units and commands."  Do you

10     see that?  I think it might be the bottom of your page.

11             Do you see the heading "Radio Communication," sir?

12        A.   Yes.

13        Q.   Okay.  Have you read the paragraph immediately before that

14     heading?

15        A.   Yes.

16        Q.   And, again, do you agree with the comments contained in that

17     paragraph?

18        A.   As the main communications man in the Drina Corps, on the entire

19     territory of the Drina Corps there were no JNA units before the war, no

20     JNA garrisons, that is, so there was no need to establish stationary

21     communications centres.  In my experience, the Drina Corps did not have

22     the possibility of relying on stationary communications centres.  In some

23     other corps, and I'm primarily referring to the Banja Luka Corps or the

24     1st Krajina Corps where there had been many units of the JNA, there were

25     also many stationary communications centres, and probably the chief of

Page 11127

 1     the communications who compiled this analysis was referring to those.

 2             My experience from the Drina Corps does not correspond to what is

 3     stated in this paragraph, but I only knew about one part of all this in

 4     relation to the entire VRS.

 5        Q.   All right.  Let -- let me deal for a moment with the Drina Corps

 6     and your -- your knowledge of operations in the Drina Corps.

 7             For combat operations, for example, a forward command post would

 8     need to be established; is that right?

 9        A.   That's right.

10        Q.   And was it part of your job to ensure that wherever the forward

11     command post was established that the necessary communications means were

12     also established at that forward command post to enable, firstly,

13     communication back to corps command; and secondly, communication with

14     subordinate units?

15        A.   Correct.

16        Q.   And obviously for combat operations as with any military

17     operations, that would include the ability to encrypt information if that

18     was possible?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   Okay.  Before I talk about the establishment of forward command

21     posts, if the Main Staff of the VRS wished to communicate, say, with

22     Belgrade, so with the General Staff of the VJ, that communication would

23     go through Zep along the same route, through Cer, through Crni Vrh, and

24     on to Belgrade; is that right?

25             MR. MAIR:  Before the --

Page 11128

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Mair.

 2             MR. MAIR:  Before the witness answers that question, I'm

 3     wondering if we could have some foundation for the witness's competence

 4     to answer that question regarding the VRS Main Staff and Belgrade.  I'm

 5     not sure if that has been sufficiently established.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

 7             MR. THOMAS:

 8        Q.   Are you aware, sir, of the radio-relay route from the VRS -- from

 9     the RS through to Belgrade?

10        A.   No.  I just knew about radio-relay communications that were

11     within the domain of the Drina Corps.

12        Q.   Was there any other radio-relay route from the VRS Main Staff

13     across the border to Serbia other than through Cer and Crni Vrh?

14        A.   Crni Vrh was only used for the needs of the Drina Corps.  I am

15     aware of that and Cer and Strazbenica.  I'm not sure about anything else.

16        Q.   I understand.  Let -- just listen to my question for the moment.

17     For the VRS Main Staff to communicate with Belgrade, I mean, I appreciate

18     you can't tell me the entire route because you don't know this, but for

19     the Main Staff in the VRS to communicate with Belgrade, you can at least

20     confirm, can't you, that the communication would have gone from the

21     Main Staff in Crna Rijeka to Zep and then across to Cer?

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. --

23             MR. MAIR:  Again, actually, this time I think Mr. Thomas is

24     asking the witness to speculate, so I will object on those grounds.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

Page 11129

 1             MR. THOMAS:  I disagree, Your Honour.  The witness has described

 2     all the hubs that were applicable from the use of the Drina Corps and the

 3     access of the VRS Main Staff to the main RS hub.  He's described the

 4     radio-relay route across the border into Serbia.  All I'm asking him now

 5     is that if that would have been the same route that would have been used

 6     had communications travelled on from Cer within Serbia.  He's someone in

 7     a position to answer that question.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Notwithstanding his statement that he's not

 9     able -- all he knows is communications within the Drina Corps?

10             MR. THOMAS:  Yes, sir, because all I'm asking him is to confirm

11     that they would have gone to Cer.  He says he doesn't know what happened

12     after -- after that, and that's -- that's a matter for him.  But I'm only

13     asking him if communications would have gone the same way to Cer and from

14     then on within the FRY by some other means.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Do you here what I'm saying?  The witness has

16     indicated that all he knows is the communication within the Drina Corps.

17     He doesn't know any communications outside the Drina Corps.  So I don't

18     know whether -- of course, on the other hand, he can say he doesn't know

19     if he doesn't know.  If he knows, he knows.  I don't know whether you

20     expect him to speculate about what happens outside the Drina Corps.

21             MR. THOMAS:  Well, what he has said, sir, is that the Drina Corps

22     used those Serb facilities.  Those Serb facilities were not exclusively

23     for the Drina Corps.  He's likened it to somebody driving a vehicle

24     across somebody's property.  So what I'm asking him is that if someone

25     wanted to keep driving their vehicle all the way to Belgrade, is that at

Page 11130

 1     least the first part of the route that they would have travelled.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  The objection will be overruled then.

 3             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honour.

 4        Q.   So, sir, do you understand my question?  You've spoken about

 5     multiple users having access to Cer.  My question is for a communication

 6     from the VRS Main Staff to anywhere in Serbia beyond Cer, would the

 7     communication at least have travelled between Zep and Cer?

 8        A.   First of all, we never talked about several users that went to

 9     Cer.  Whatever I know and whatever is contained in the schematics that I

10     received, it only had to do with the hubs in those of the Drina Corps for

11     the realisation of their own communications.  As for the realisation of

12     other communications, I never got any schematics, and I cannot say

13     anything that would be reliable.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Can you please listen to the question very

15     carefully and try to answer the question.  You're not being asked what

16     you were doing within the Drina Corps.  You know -- you've been just

17     asked whether any communication from the VRS Main Staff to anywhere in

18     Serbia beyond Cer would have to go at least through Zep and Cer.  The

19     answer to that question is either a Yes, a No, or I don't know; not that

20     long explanation.

21             Thank you, sir.

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know.

23             MR. THOMAS:

24        Q.   All right.  Can we maybe give you some help.

25             MR. THOMAS:  Can we have P1558 on the screen, please.  Now, just

Page 11131

 1     before -- just before we blow-up -- excuse me.  Just before we blow-up

 2     this document, can we see the heading, please, at the top, Mr. Registrar.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Mair.

 4             MR. MAIR:  I believe the witness also has this document.  It

 5     might be a little bit easier to see the entire diagram.  It should be tab

 6     12, if that's okay with Mr. Thomas.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  That's fine, sir.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Mair.

 9             MR. THOMAS:

10        Q.   Now, you see that this is a chart of communications.  Do you see

11     the stamp in the middle of that page?

12        A.   I see it, but I cannot read it exactly.  I cannot see what is

13     exactly written on this stamp.  Maybe -- maybe it says "Main Staff."

14     Now, is it the Army of Republika Srpska or something else?  I mean, I

15     have no reason not to trust you.  Can you help me out with this?

16        Q.   Well, have you seen this schematic before or anything --

17        A.   No.

18        Q.   Have you seen a --

19        A.   No.

20        Q.   All right.  Have you seen a schematic like this before?

21        A.   No.

22             MR. THOMAS:  Okay.  Can we move over to the right-hand side of

23     both versions, please.  And in the B/C/S as well, please.

24        Q.   Now, you'll see the Cer site on that schematic?

25        A.   I do.

Page 11132

 1        Q.   Okay.  In fact, that's not very clear and it doesn't assist, so

 2     we can take that off the screen.  My apologies.

 3             All right.  I want to move now to the establishment of forward

 4     command posts, and I want to talk -- so that we have examples that you

 5     are familiar with, I want to talk about Srebrenica and Zepa.

 6             First of all, you were the -- effectively chief of communications

 7     for General Krstic during the Srebrenica and Zepa operations?

 8        A.   No.

 9        Q.   Can you explain what role you had during the Srebrenica and

10     Zepa operations?

11        A.   I was an officer from the communications battalion in charge of

12     carrying out the realisation of communications that were planned by

13     Lieutenant-Colonel Nedo Blagojevic who, indeed, was General Krstic's

14     chief of communications.

15        Q.   All right.  And part of your tasks was to ensure the existence of

16     effective and safe communications from the forward command posts; is that

17     right?

18        A.   Yes.  To carry out the realisation of communications from the

19     forward command post.

20        Q.   And as you've said before, that would involve ensuring lines of

21     communication from the forward command post back to corps command and

22     also ensuring lines of communication from the forward command post down

23     to subordinate units; is that right?

24        A.   Yes.  To realise these communications that you just mentioned.

25        Q.   And to ensure, wherever possible, that means existed to encrypt

Page 11133

 1     or protect those communications.

 2        A.   Yes.

 3        Q.   All right.  Let's deal with Srebrenica first of all.  Where was

 4     the forward command post located for the Srebrenica operation?

 5        A.   It was in the village of Pribicevac, and that operation was

 6     called Krivaja 95.  It was not called the Srebrenica operation.

 7        Q.   Okay.  In what sort of building was the -- was the forward

 8     command post?

 9        A.   Literally in a meadow.

10        Q.   Was there any existing communications capability there before it

11     became the forward command post for the operation?

12        A.   No.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, Mr. Thomas, to interrupt.

14             Sir, when you say literally in a meadow, you mean it was not in a

15     building?

16             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  Yes, Mr. ...

18             MR. THOMAS:

19        Q.   And in terms of -- first of all, in terms of physically

20     establishing the command post itself, what was involved in that process?

21     I'm not talking about coms for the moment, just the command post itself.

22        A.   The forward command post in such situations means that there

23     should be a certain area on the ground where elements of the forward

24     command post are deployed.  One of these elements of a forward command

25     post is the communications centre, and I was given the task of setting it

Page 11134

 1     up.

 2        Q.   I understand, sir.  I'm not talking about the communications

 3     centre for the moment -- I'm sorry, my friend is on his feet.

 4             MR. MAIR:  Just briefly, if we could know what "coms" means.  I'm

 5     not familiar with that term.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Thomas.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  I used the English term "coms," and I apologise.  I

 8     shouldn't have.

 9        Q.   Do you understand that to be a short abbreviation for

10     "communications"?

11        A.   Now you've confused me.  Can you repeat the question?

12             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  It is very difficult to

13     make the distinction in B/C/S.

14             MR. THOMAS:  I understand.

15        Q.   I'll rephrase my question.  I'm not talking about communications

16     for the moment.  I'm just -- I'm just interested in what physically

17     occurs to establish a command post for all the other elements required to

18     be present at a forward command post.  Can you just assist us with

19     describing what is involved in that process?

20        A.   According to regulations, a forward command post would have to

21     imply that there are certain facilities where organs are deployed, organs

22     that are going to command from that forward command post.  Security

23     should be deployed there, then the headquarters staff and everyone else

24     that needs to work there for the purposes of that forward command post.

25     That would be it in the briefest possible terms.

Page 11135

 1        Q.   Okay.  All right.  Moving now to communications.  And for the

 2     Srebrenica forward command post, what were you required to do to

 3     establish the necessary communications system?

 4        A.   I was supposed to establish communications vis-a-vis the superior

 5     command, that is to say, the command of the Drina Corps.  I also needed

 6     to establish communications with subordinate units that took part in the

 7     Krivaja 95 operation.

 8        Q.   So how did you do that?

 9        A.   I did that by using certain technical communications.

10        Q.   Without going into too much technical detail, can you describe

11     for us the kind of equipment that you had to establish and how it

12     operated?

13        A.   On a motor vehicle, I had integrated equipment that made it

14     possible to communicate with the command of the Drina Corps as well as

15     the encryption of these written communications.  As for this other type

16     of equipment that had a protection of speech, encryption, rather, I had

17     that kind of equipment for communicating with the subordinate units that

18     took part in the Krivaja 95 operation.

19        Q.   And did you have encryption capability for the oral

20     communications between corps command and the forward command post?

21        A.   Oral communications between the forward command post of

22     Krivaja 95 and the corps command we could not encrypt.  There was only

23     this one device at the Main Staff where from time to time there could be

24     encryption carried out for these oral communications.

25        Q.   I understand.  So that deals with oral communication between the

Page 11136

 1     forward command post and the Drina Corps command.  What about oral

 2     communication between the forward command post and the Main Staff?  Was

 3     there a direct line of communication between the two?

 4        A.   There was not a direct line, but we could get in touch with the

 5     Main Staff from that forward command post.  However, as far as I can

 6     remember, this was used very rarely, because that operation was commanded

 7     by the Drina Corps.

 8        Q.   All right.  Now, besides encryption, the -- the protection of

 9     information also meant that radio call-signs, radio call names, were

10     assigned to certain individuals and to certain posts; is that right?

11        A.   Do you mean encrypting written communications or oral

12     communications?

13        Q.   My fault, sir.  I asked you a very long question.

14             For -- for example, for oral communications between the

15     brigade -- or a brigade and corps command or the forward command post,

16     the locations from which people were calling would be identified by

17     call-signs rather than by saying, "I'm calling from corps command,"

18     wouldn't they?

19        A.   No.  We had equipment for the protection of speech, and thereby

20     we could speak openly.  There was no need to hide anything orally, no

21     need to code anything when speaking.  That is to say, we had reliable

22     radio equipment at short ranges.  So from the forward command post

23     through this equipment, one could command the units that took part in the

24     operation by speaking freely, without using any kind of codes.

25        Q.   Okay.  Nevertheless, there were code-names, weren't there?

Page 11137

 1        A.   In the documentation we did have a list of secret names,

 2     code-names, for various units, and that is contained in the

 3     communications plan.  However, all the content of information was

 4     enunciated freely, without using any kind of code tables, et cetera.

 5     There was no need for that, because our protection equipment was very

 6     reliable.

 7        Q.   Okay.  Before I move on to just a couple of communications I want

 8     to talk to you about, can you confirm for me that the code-name for the

 9     Drina Corps command during the operation was Zlatar?

10        A.   Yes, Zlatar was the corps command.

11        Q.   The 1st Zvornik Infantry Brigade was Palma?

12        A.   It was Palma, but I with like to explain something to you if you

13     allow me to do so.  These are secret or code-names of units in Zvornik,

14     Vlasenica, Bratunac, et cetera.  All these units gave one company or

15     Tactical Group respectively that was singled out from these brigades and

16     went out to carry out the Krivaja 95 operation.  These smaller units that

17     left, Palma, Zlatar, and so on, in the execution of Krivaja 95, they were

18     assigned completely different code-names.

19        Q.   All right.  And before we leave this topic, you confirmed that

20     ordinarily Palma meant the Zvornik Brigade and Badem meant the

21     Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade.

22        A.   As far as I can remember, yes.

23        Q.   All right.  I want to just look at a couple of intercepts where

24     these are used so that you can help us with those, please.  The first is

25     P248.

Page 11138

 1             MR. THOMAS:  If we could have that on the screen.

 2        Q.   I'll ask you a couple of questions about it, sir, but it might

 3     assist you, perhaps, to read the entire transcript in the B/C/S.  I'm

 4     looking at the one that begins halfway down the page at 2102.  Yes.  So

 5     just take a moment, sir.  Read the entire transcript.  It's not very

 6     long.  And we will do the same.

 7             And when you need to go on to the -- sorry.  When you need to go

 8     on to the next page, sir, just say so.

 9        A.   I've read it.  However, it would be good if I could see a hard

10     copy, because it's hard for me to read it on the screen.  However, I have

11     read what is on the screen now.

12        Q.   Take a look at the next page.

13             MR. THOMAS:  I think, Mr. Registrar, we do need to scroll down in

14     the English.  And perhaps once everyone's had an opportunity to read the

15     last part of the English, we can enlarge the B/C/S version.

16        Q.   And when you're ready, sir, we can go back to the beginning of

17     the intercept.

18        A.   Can it be lowered so that I can see the end?  I have read as much

19     as it was possible to read.

20        Q.   All right.  If we could go to the beginning of the document,

21     please, or the beginning of the conversation.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Mair.

23             MR. MAIR:  I am not able to see.  I don't know if Mr. Thomas

24     could provide the date for this conversation.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Thomas.

Page 11139

 1             MR. THOMAS:  It's the 14th of July, sir, and I was just about to

 2     get to that.

 3        Q.   All right.  Mr. Jevdjevic, this is a conversation that occurred

 4     on the 14th of July, 1995, and you understand from the date and the

 5     contents of this intercept the context.

 6             You will see at the reference at the beginning of the

 7     conversation we have somebody calling Badem saying that the Palma duty

 8     officer wants to talk to Beara.  Do you see that?

 9        A.   Yes, that is what is written here.

10        Q.   So in the context that we -- that we have been discussing,

11     Palma was the Drina Corps command and Badem refers to the

12     Bratunac Brigade, doesn't it?

13        A.   No.  Palma, as we said a moment ago, is the command of the

14     Zvornik Brigade in Zvornik, not the command of the Drina Corps.

15        Q.   Sorry, my apologies.  The Zvornik Brigade in Zvornik and Badem

16     being the Bratunac Brigade.

17        A.   Yes.  Those are the names of those brigades, the commands of

18     those brigades.  However, where their seats are.

19        Q.   All right.  For a communication to be sent from the seat of the

20     Zvornik Brigade to the seat of the Bratunac Brigade, it would have to

21     travel through Crni Vrh, Cer, Zep, and then out to the Bratunac Brigade

22     seat, would it not?

23        A.   Yes.

24             MR. THOMAS:  Can we look, please, at P240.  And the conversation

25     beginning at 13.58 hours.  That's a little further down the page in the

Page 11140

 1     B/C/S.  Thank you.

 2        Q.   And, Mr. Jevdjevic, I can tell you that this is a conversation

 3     from the 16th of July.  Again, please just familiarise yourself with the

 4     context by reading the intercept or the conversation quietly to yourself.

 5        A.   I do apologise, but if we could scroll down so that I can see the

 6     beginning and also the right-hand side is cut off, if you want me to look

 7     at the content.

 8        Q.   We can do that, sir, and we can go over to the next page for you

 9     as well.

10        A.   I've read it, and I assume the content is not that relevant to

11     your question.

12        Q.   All right.  Well, you haven't heard my question yet.  Let's go

13     back to the top of the conversation.

14             You've read the intercept.  We know that it's dated the

15     16th of July, 1995, and you will see that this is a conversation between

16     the Palma duty officer, which we know to be the seat of the

17     Zvornik Brigade, and Zlatar.  And Zlatar you described as being the

18     Drina Corps command in Vlasenica.  Is that right?

19        A.   Yes, but I don't see the frequency here, on which frequency this

20     conversation was intercepted, and that is why I cannot tell you what sort

21     of equipment was used, nor can I be sure on which sections this equipment

22     operated.  On the previous intercept, I could see the frequency.  And

23     that told me something about the type of equipment that was used.

24        Q.   All right.  Well, let me ask you a more -- a general question

25     then.  For a radio-relay communication to travel between Zlatar and

Page 11141

 1     Palma, it would need to go to, firstly, Zep, then Cer, then Crni Vrh, and

 2     then Zvornik?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Okay.  And --

 5        A.   Although -- I do apologise.  I wish to add the following:  That

 6     was the radio-relay communication used through military equipment

 7     exclusively.  In the course of the war, we were also able to use civilian

 8     telephone lines run by the post office.  So every military post had

 9     civilian telephone numbers through the post office.  So some

10     communications did take place that way.  This was the regular military

11     communication line, but we also used civilian ones.  Where I can see the

12     frequency of the military equipment, I can say that most likely it went

13     through the route you described.  But where I cannot see the frequency, I

14     cannot be certain that this is the case.

15        Q.   I understand.  I want to move from -- now on to Zepa.  I don't

16     have many conversations left to deal with, sir, but I want to move to

17     Zepa, July 1995.  Once again, your job was to ensure that there was safe

18     and effective communications capability installed at the various forward

19     command posts; is that right?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   Can you tell us, first of all, how many forward command posts

22     there were for the Zepa operation?

23        A.   We moved twice, so we had the 1st, 2nd, and 3rd forward command

24     post.

25        Q.   Okay.  I'll just take it slowly so that we have it, sir.  Can you

Page 11142

 1     tell me, please, where the 1st command post was?

 2        A.   In the village of Krivace.

 3        Q.   Is -- Krivace is the name of the village?

 4        A.   Yes.

 5        Q.   And in what sort of facility, building, was the forward command

 6     post established?

 7        A.   Krivace is a village that was at least 3 or 4 kilometres away

 8     from where we were, and the forward command post was underneath a pine

 9     tree.

10        Q.   And what communications means were established at that command

11     post?

12        A.   The same as the one we had for the Krivaja 95 operation.

13        Q.   So the same process you described and the same material you

14     described for that operation equally applied to the establishment of this

15     forward command post at Krivace; is that right?

16        A.   Yes, but one or two units switched places.  Otherwise, everything

17     remained the same.

18        Q.   In terms of your communications, the set-up was the same as it

19     was at the Srebrenica forward command post?

20        A.   Yes.

21        Q.   Okay.  Where was the next forward command post for the Zepa

22     operation?

23        A.   It was called Godjenje.

24        Q.   Prior to the move to Godjenje, what other forward command posts

25     were established for the Zepa operation?

Page 11143

 1        A.   Before Godjenje, we had Krivace.  After Krivace, we had Godjenje.

 2     Maybe I misunderstood your question or it was misinterpreted.

 3        Q.   Was there -- all right.  Let me be -- let me be a little more

 4     specific, sir.  Was there a forward command post at Podzeplje?

 5        A.   No.

 6        Q.   Or Podplane?

 7        A.   No.

 8        Q.   What was the code-name for the forward command post at Krivace?

 9     Was it Uran?

10        A.   It was Uran.

11        Q.   Okay.  Within the -- yet you've described that forward command

12     post being under a pine tree.  Can you be a little bit more specific?  Is

13     there -- for example, does the name Salila mean anything to you?

14        A.   Mesalila means nothing me.  I have never heard the word before,

15     or maybe it was misinterpreted.  In operations of this kind, our

16     commanders insisted that their forward command posts be at the front line

17     in a place from which one could have an overview over the whole

18     battle-field so that they could see what was going on and thus command

19     the units more effectively.  That was why we were on an elevation

20     underneath a pine tree.

21        Q.   All right.  Was there a command post at the post of the

22     65th Protection Regiment?

23        A.   That unit was located near Crna Rijeka, but it was not in my line

24     of command, so I do not know where it had its forward command post.

25        Q.   You weren't aware of that post being at Podplane?

Page 11144

 1        A.   I have already told you that this unit was not in the chain of

 2     command of the Drina Corps, and I do not know where its forward command

 3     post was.

 4        Q.   Okay.  Let me ask you this:  At Uran, you would have encountered

 5     General Tolimir during the course of the Zepa operation; correct?

 6        A.   I've already heard a confusing interpretation again.

 7             At Uran I met General Tolimir.  Uran was the code-name of the

 8     forward command post of the Drina Corps.  Can you be more specific?

 9        Q.   Well, was General Tolimir at that command post throughout the

10     Zepa operation?

11        A.   No.

12        Q.   Was he -- where else was he operating from?

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Mair.

14             MR. MAIR:  I'm going to object to that question as far as

15     speculation.  I don't know if we have any basis at all for Mr. Jevdjevic

16     to answer that question.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  How is that speculation, Mr. Mair?

18             MR. MAIR:  Well, there's no foundation for how Mr. Jevdjevic

19     would know where Mr. Tolimir was during the Zepa operation.  We have no

20     idea where -- where Mr. Tolimir -- we have no idea how Mr. Jevdjevic

21     would have any information at all about that.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

23             MR. THOMAS:  Sir, Mr. Jevdjevic is there.  He's in charge of

24     communications.  General Tolimir is at the forward command post.  He said

25     he's not there all the time.  I'm asking him if he knows where else he

Page 11145

 1     was operating from.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Objection overruled.

 3             MR. THOMAS:

 4        Q.   So, sir, can you -- can you tell us where else General Tolimir

 5     was operating from during the Zepa operation?

 6        A.   First, I was never the chief of communications.  I was an officer

 7     tasked with implementing the communications planned by the chief of

 8     communications.

 9             General Tolimir was never at the forward command post when

10     Stupcanica 95 was being carried out.  But on several occasions I heard

11     General Tolimir's voice on the radio communications, but he never came to

12     the forward command post of the Drina Corps.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Jevdjevic, I want to believe that you do want

14     to go home as soon as possible.  Now, that will happen if you can listen

15     to the questions and answer them as succinctly as possible.

16             The question simply is can you tell us where else General Tolimir

17     was operating from during the Zepa operations.  You either can tell, or

18     you can't tell.

19             We're not wanting --

20             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can't tell you that.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.  You see, it's a very short answer.

22     Yours was a long answer which will keep you here for the rest of the

23     year.

24             Would that be an appropriate, convenient time?  We'll take a

25     break and come back at quarter to 11.00.

Page 11146

 1             Court adjourned.

 2                           [The witness stands down]

 3                           --- Recess taken at 10.18 a.m.

 4                           --- On resuming at 10.48 a.m.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Thomas.

 6             MR. THOMAS:  Your Honours, there are two documents that I'd like

 7     to use with Mr. Jevdjevic for the purposes of impeachment relating to

 8     this topic of the existence of other forward command posts at Zepa.  The

 9     first is an intercept.  This is XN222.  It is an intercept of a

10     conversation between General Miletic and General Tolimir where

11     General Tolimir has said to Miletic that he has forwarded communication

12     to the Uran command post for the purposes of sending it securely to

13     General Miletic.

14             So the suggestion here that is being made is that Mr. Jevdjevic,

15     at Uran, responsible for communications, would have been aware that

16     General Tolimir was sending him information which was not secure from

17     another location during the operation for the purposes of him -- of him

18     then being able to on-send it securely to General Miletic, suggesting

19     that General Miletic -- sorry, General Tolimir is operating at a location

20     separate from Uran but within the knowledge of Mr. Jevdjevic because he

21     is communicating with Uran, and for the purpose of using the encryption

22     facilities available at Uran for the on-transmission of information.

23             The second document, Your Honours, is used for the same purpose.

24     It's XN220.  It is the Drina Corps battle order for the Zepa operation,

25     and it refers to another forward command post.  It names it, and I wish

Page 11147

 1     to use that document to put to him to establish whether there was another

 2     forward command post other than that that he has described.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thanks, Mr. Thomas.  Are you done?  It's

 4     unfortunate that you gave the whole detail of the contents of these

 5     documents before you have a ruling on whether you may or may not use

 6     them, but let me just find out one thing from the parties.

 7             Was Mr. Jevdjevic an operator of the communications systems, or

 8     did he just establish them?

 9             MR. THOMAS:  I think the best answer, sir, is that his evidence

10     was that he was responsible for implementing the communications plan at

11     the forward command posts --

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And what does that mean, "implementing the

13     communications plan"?

14             MR. THOMAS:  Which was to ensure that they were operating, secure

15     and effective communications among all the units.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes.  But he's not an operator.  He's not the one

17     who answers when people phone.

18             MR. THOMAS:  He's not been directly asked that question, but

19     there is other evidence that -- that suggests that.

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.

21             Mr. Mair.

22             MR. MAIR:  If I could take the second document first, XN220.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  222.

24             MR. MAIR:  I believe 222 is the first document, if I'm not

25     mistaken.

Page 11148

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  My apologies.

 2             MR. MAIR:  Thank you.  Yes, an order that Mr. Thomas spoke about.

 3             For 220, if it's only for the purposes of impeachment, we have no

 4     problem with that as long as the threshold is met on the subsequent

 5     submissions which I assume will be -- will be made.

 6             As regards the first, XN222, I don't believe that the submission

 7     made thus far by Mr. Thomas actually answers the purpose for which he

 8     said he's impeaching the witness.  As regards the existence additional

 9     communications centres, I don't think there's anything in this intercept

10     that actually establishes additional forward command posts.  So I don't

11     think the document itself is actually relevant for the purpose that which

12     Mr. Thomas proposes to use it.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  I'm just not finding ...

14             MR. MAIR:  Your Honour, if I can assist, I'm referring to

15     Mr. Thomas starting at page 31, lines 10 through 12:

16             "For the purpose of impeachment relating to this topic of the

17     existence of other forward command posts at Zepa."

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Mr. Thomas, threshold.

19             MR. THOMAS:  Sir, he's denied that there are other forward

20     command posts at Zepa.  I'm just wanting to demonstrate that he's not

21     honest about that.

22             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Or that he doesn't know.  He may not know.

23             MR. THOMAS:  He might not know, but he's claimed to say -- that

24     might be his answer, but that wasn't his answer in his testimony.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes.  Threshold, Mr. Thomas.

Page 11149

 1             MR. THOMAS:  Certainly, sir.  The document was disclosed --

 2     sorry, XN220, if I can find my notes -- one moment, Your Honour.

 3             XN220 was disclosed on the first occasion on the

 4     13th of October, 2006, and XN222 was disclosed on the 18th of March, this

 5     week, sir.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  This week.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  Yes, sir.  As soon as we received the proofing note

 8     effectively from this witness the night before his testimony, we were

 9     able to make the necessary inquiries.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  By what means were these documents disclosed?

11             MR. THOMAS:  The first via CD, sir, and the second via e-court

12     with a -- with a contemporaneous message saying that it was available in

13     e-court, e-mail message.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Is that all?

15             MR. THOMAS:  Yes, sir.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Mair raises the point that the one document is

17     not relevant for purposes of impeachment.  Do you have any response to

18     that?

19             MR. THOMAS:  I do, sir.  The -- the witness has said that there

20     was -- he has no idea where General Tolimir was and what he was doing.

21     It's relevant for the purposes of impeachment in that respect, because it

22     demonstrates that there is a direct communication between

23     General Tolimir, on the 16th of July, and Uran being the forward command

24     post, and I appreciate I need to put him at Uran at the necessary time,

25     but assuming that I do that, he's at Uran, and the communication is for

Page 11150

 1     the purpose of transmitting securely information back to General Miletic.

 2     So in my submission, it impeaches him on the basis that it challenges his

 3     assertion that he didn't know where General Tolimir was or what he was

 4     doing.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And does that not come back to the question I

 6     asked:  Was he operating the system or did he just establish the system.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  I can -- understand.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Obviously if he has -- if he has established the

 9     system and he pulls out -- whether he's there or not on the 16th, he's

10     not on the line to hear, but --

11             MR. THOMAS:  You're -- no.  The -- you're quite right,

12     Your Honour.  There are two ways around that.  The first is that as a

13     precondition I can ask him some questions as to whether or not he was

14     there on the 16th, but the follow-up conversation in XN222, the

15     Prosecution alleges, is made to him at Uran.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  To him?

17             MR. THOMAS:  Yes.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Mair, do you have any comments to make on the

19     document that was first disclosed to you on the 18th of March this year?

20                           [Defence counsel confer]

21             MR. MAIR:  To -- to begin with, I'd like to point out that I

22     think Mr. Thomas has changed the purpose for which he said he would like

23     to impeach Mr. Jevdjevic.  He started off by referring to the existence

24     of multiple command posts.  We're now dealing with a direct link between

25     Tolimir and Miletic, which is a wholly different topic than with the --

Page 11151

 1     where this conversation started.

 2             As regards the submission on the -- the disclosure and the

 3     threshold, the Prosecution has tendered hundreds of intercepts in this

 4     case, many, many intercepts, and I don't see any reason why this

 5     intercept, if it was relevant to this case, why it would not have been

 6     tendered at a previous -- previous time or why it was not even disclosed

 7     at a previous time sooner than three days ago.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sure, but what -- or is that your objection to the

 9     short notice?

10             MR. MAIR:  Yes, it is.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I don't know whether you want to answer that,

12     Mr. Thomas, or if you don't, then the Chamber will have to rule.

13             MR. THOMAS:  Only to say, sir, that it matters little for our

14     case whether General Tolimir spoke to Mr. Jevdjevic or anyone else on a

15     particular day.  It assumes importance now because of the need to impeach

16     Mr. Jevdjevic on his comments regarding where Mr. Tolimir was operating.

17     It's only that the relevance of the document has only now crystallised

18     with this.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But then there's a submission by the Defence that

20     you're shifting the goal posts, that you were going to use these

21     documents to impeach him on the number of forward posts, forward command

22     posts.  Now you're saying you want to use it to establish the whereabouts

23     of Mr. Tolimir, which is a completely --

24             MR. THOMAS:  No -- oh, sorry.  The purpose is to impeach his

25     testimony on the whereabouts of General Tolimir.  Now, I'm doing that by

Page 11152

 1     demonstrating that General Tolimir is there and that he's communicating

 2     with others and through him and wanting secure communications and so on,

 3     but the purpose has been and always remains to impeach him when he says

 4     he doesn't know where General Tolimir was and where he was operating

 5     from.

 6             Now, if he ends up talking about command posts or about something

 7     else, that's by the by.  The key thing, sir, is that he has said that he

 8     doesn't know where General Tolimir was.  General Tolimir would not have

 9     been just walking around in fields, sir.  He would have been at a command

10     post of some description, but that's not what I'm attempting to

11     establish.  The reason why I'm using the document is to impeach his

12     testimony when he says he doesn't know where General Tolimir was during

13     this period.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But let me read you, Mr. Thomas, what you said

15     when you introduced this topic as soon as we came back from the break.

16     And this is at page 31, starting at line 10:

17              "Your Honours, there are two documents that I would like to use

18     with Mr. Jevdjevic for the purposes of impeachment relating to this topic

19     of the existence of other forward command posts at Zepa."

20             That's the point that you want to -- now, when you start talking

21     about the whereabouts of Tolimir, you're shifting from this first

22     purpose, from this first point that you want to impeach him on as to the

23     existence of other forward command posts at Zepa.

24             MR. THOMAS:  Yes, sir, but what I said at line 22 is more

25     specific:

Page 11153

 1              "This relates to General Tolimir operating at a location

 2     separate from Uran but within the knowledge of Mr. Jevdjevic."

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And that's why the Defence is objecting on the

 4     basis that that document then is not relevant to the existence of a

 5     forward command post at Zepa.  It's relevant to the whereabouts of

 6     Tolimir.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  Yes, but that's what I've said, sir, at line 22,

 8     that General Tolimir is operating at a location separate from Uran but

 9     within the knowledge of Mr. Jevdjevic.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And -- and that separate location, is it a forward

11     command post other than the command posts that he has already mentioned?

12             MR. THOMAS:  I don't know.  It could be, but it's something

13     within his knowledge.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That's a fishing expedition, Mr. Thomas.

15             MR. THOMAS:  Sir, he denies knowing where General Tolimir was.

16     He's receiving communications from General Tolimir.  He's receiving

17     instructions to encrypt these because he cannot do so from where he's at.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  He's receiving instructions to encrypt.

19             MR. THOMAS:  Yes.  The reason why the communication -- the

20     communication between General Tolimir and General Miletic indicates that

21     material is being sent from General Tolimir to Mr. Jevdjevic for the

22     purpose of encryption for on-sending to General Miletic.  Now, when

23     Mr. Jevdjevic says he doesn't know where Tolimir was operating from, my

24     submission is that he has to answer that against the document that

25     demonstrates that he's in regular -- in contact with General Tolimir for

Page 11154

 1     the purpose of encryption because General Tolimir doesn't have that

 2     capability where he is, and so he must know where General Tolimir is.

 3             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But if -- does that establish where he operates

 4     from --

 5             MR. THOMAS:  I'm not trying to establish by using this document

 6     where Tolimir was operating from.  I'm impeaching him when he says he

 7     doesn't know.  The document doesn't tell us where Tolimir was.  Now, once

 8     I've impeached him, I can go and ask him -- once I put the document to

 9     him on impeached him on that point, well, depending what his answers are,

10     I can ask him again where the forward command post --

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That's my problem.  You see, if you depend on what

12     the answers are, that's a fishing expedition, Mr. Thomas.  You see, if

13     you impeach, you have incontrovertible information with you which

14     contradicts what the witness is going to say.  You're not going to find

15     out still from the witness some information that you may use to impeach.

16             MR. THOMAS:  Except, sir, that if the witness says, "You're

17     right, I did know," then I can ask him.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  This is -- you're saying exactly what I'm saying

19     shouldn't happen.

20             MR. THOMAS:  But --

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  If the witness says -- impeachment is not

22     dependent on what the witness is going to say.  Impeachment is done on

23     information that is in your possession which is contrary to information

24     that the witness has already given, not which he may give.  And then you

25     say "Sir, you said A, B, C, D.  Is that correct?"  "Yes."  "I show you

Page 11155

 1     this document.  Is that the -- do you know this document?"  "Yes."  "Is

 2     it correct?"  "Yes, it is correct."  "I'll show you the content.  The

 3     document says -- contradicts your A, B, C, D.  It says X, Y, Z."

 4             MR. THOMAS:  And he agrees with that:  "You're right.  It says

 5     X, Y, Z."  And that's meaningless without the next question which is

 6     "It was X, Y, Z, wasn't it?"  And that's why we would impeach him that

 7     way.  To get him to agree that it was X, Y, Z.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That's right.  But it was X, Y, Z not A, B, C, D.

 9             MR. THOMAS:  Yes.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But not on anything that he may say during your

11     questioning.

12             You see, what I hear you saying is for purposes of developing

13     this document that you want to use, you rely on the kind of questions --

14     answers, rather, he's likely to give as you ask him questions.  Now, that

15     is a fishing expedition.

16             MR. THOMAS:  I hear Your Honour.  I can't add any more arguments

17     to what I already have.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Then you can use the one document.

19             MR. THOMAS:  Sir.

20             MR. MAIR:  Excuse me.  Before we move on, could I just get

21     clarification on the purpose for XN220.  Now that we've had this long

22     discussion, I'm a bit confused.  If Mr. Thomas could just state the

23     purpose for XN220, the first document -- sorry, excuse me, the second

24     document.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  220 is supposed to demonstrate that, if I may, let

Page 11156

 1     me just quote:

 2              There are -- to impeach the witness relating to the topic of the

 3     existence of other forward command posts at Zepa.

 4             As I understand it.

 5             MR. MAIR:  That is my understanding as well.  As long as the

 6     document is used for that impeachment and for the sole purpose of

 7     impeachment and for no other purpose, then I have no difficulty.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

 9             MR. THOMAS:  That's how I understood the position, sir.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

11             You may proceed, Mr. Thomas.

12             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honour.

13                           [The witness takes the stand]

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry about that, Mr. Jevdjevic.  We thought we

15     must give you a little longer break.  I hope you didn't mind that.

16             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honour.

17             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Thomas.

18             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honour.

19        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, there was a question I wanted to ask you about

20     radio-relay stations.  As I understand it, for radio-relay messages to be

21     transmitted across a radio-relay route between radio-relay stations, the

22     signal is directional; right?  They are sent in a specific direction?

23        A.   Analogous means that it is not protected, and protected are

24     protected.  But both have to be directional.  Analogous does not mean

25     directional necessarily.

Page 11157

 1        Q.   All right.  I'm sorry, I don't know how analogous got into the

 2     question, because it wasn't in my question.

 3             For a message to be sent along a radio-relay route, it needs to

 4     be transmitted in a specific direction?

 5        A.   Yes.

 6        Q.   And for the radio -- for the communications centre or node

 7     receiving the -- the message, the receiver needs to be tuned to the

 8     direction from which the signal is coming; correct?

 9        A.   That's right.

10        Q.   And if either of those are not aligned, you don't have a

11     connection and a break in the route therefore.

12        A.   That's right.

13        Q.   If enemy forces or if anybody wished to disrupt the progress of a

14     signal along a radio-relay route, would that be -- would that be

15     difficult?

16        A.   Yes, that would be difficult for them.

17        Q.   Are the radio-relay routes on the republic of -- or were the

18     radio-relay communication centres on the territory of the RS well

19     protected, well defended?

20        A.   In what sense do you mean that?

21        Q.   Well, was there -- was there physical protection?  Were there --

22     were there armed security units there or any other means of military

23     protection?  I'm not talking about crypto-protection.  I'm talking about

24     actual physical military protection.

25        A.   Those radio-relay nodes that were near enemy positions had their

Page 11158

 1     own protection, that is to say, the crew at that node or hub had armed

 2     soldiers there.

 3        Q.   And presumably that would be to ensure that the communications

 4     system was not disrupted?  One of the reasons.

 5        A.   Yes, yes, to prevent any kind of sabotage or diversion by the

 6     enemy.

 7        Q.   Could you disrupt a communication along a radio-relay route

 8     simply by changing the alignment of the receivers?

 9        A.   That crew was only supposed to make sure that no one attacks that

10     hub or node.

11        Q.   I understand.  Let's -- let's talk about a situation where we

12     have a communications centre or node with no military protection and an

13     authority has free access to this particular node.  Could they disrupt

14     communication along that radio-relay route simply by changing the

15     alignment of the receivers on that node?

16        A.   Technically that would be possible, but I've never heard of that

17     kind of thing happening during the course of the war in our parts.

18        Q.   Okay.  Sir, I want to go back once again to Zepa, and you spoke

19     of the location of the forward command post, which you said was at

20     Krivace.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry.  Sorry, Mr. Thomas.  Mr. Jevdjevic doesn't

22     get any translation.

23             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Before the interpreter starts

24     interpreting, I hear the Prosecutor speaking at a very high volume, which

25     is stressful.

Page 11159

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sorry about that, Mr. Jevdjevic.  Let's see if

 2     we can help.

 3             Can you try again, Mr. Thomas?

 4             MR. THOMAS:  Can I proceed?  Yes, sir.

 5        Q.   You were talking about forward command posts at Zepa.  You spoke,

 6     first of all, of there being three forward command posts.  You said you

 7     moved twice and there were three forward command posts for the operation.

 8     Can you tell me the location of the three forward command posts?

 9        A.   Krivace, Glodjani, Zlovrh.

10        Q.   And in that order?  Was that the order in which they were

11     established?

12        A.   Yes.

13             MR. THOMAS:  Could we have document XN220, please.

14        Q.   Now, Mr. Jevdjevic, I'm not certain if you've seen this document

15     before.  It is General Krstic's battle order for the operations against

16     Zepa.  You will see that immediately above the order numbered 5 on the

17     first page we have reference to the Krivace command post, which you have

18     already spoken about.  Do you see that?

19        A.   Yes.

20        Q.   On the next page --

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm sorry, Mr. Thomas.  I was slow on the uptake.

22     You said immediately before the -- what numbered 5?

23             MR. THOMAS:  Your Honour, that's quite correct.  We need to

24     scroll down on the English version.  I'm sorry.  I was reading off a hard

25     copy.  Immediately above number 5 we have reference to the Krivace

Page 11160

 1     command post.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Command post.  Thank you so much.

 3             MR. THOMAS:

 4        Q.   On the next page, please, immediately above the number 5, we have

 5     reference to another command post, don't we?

 6        A.   Could you please tell me once again which number you want me to

 7     look at?

 8        Q.   Above the number 5.

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   And what is your comment in relation to the reference to this

11     other command post?

12        A.   This is the command post of a Tactical Group from the

13     Zvornik Brigade, as far as I can read here, that took part in this

14     operation.  That is to say that it is not a command post of the

15     Drina Corps that was actually carrying out this operation where I was.

16     This is a command post of a lower-ranking unit that took part in that

17     operation.

18        Q.   Where was it specifically?

19        A.   It is written here.  It says in the village of Podzeplje.

20        Q.   Do you know in what facility?

21        A.   In the village of Podzeplje, but I don't know in what facility.

22     That village was about 3 or 4 kilometres away from my command post.

23        Q.   Did you go there?

24        A.   No.

25        Q.   Did you have communications with them?

Page 11161

 1        A.   Yes.

 2        Q.   What -- did you have secure communications with them?

 3        A.   Yes.

 4        Q.   Were there other command posts for other units involved in Zepa

 5     other than this one?

 6        A.   The order specifies the initial command posts for all the units

 7     involved, and that's the way it goes down the chain vertically.

 8        Q.   My question was:  Were there other command posts for other units?

 9        A.   Of course.  Of course.  Of course.  All units received their

10     command posts through an order.

11        Q.   Can you tell me -- tell us, please, where the other command posts

12     were?

13        A.   Well, I can tell you, for instance, if I read this order.

14     However, my duty was only to know where my command posts were.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, but do you know where other command posts

16     were?  If you don't know, you don't know.

17             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Maybe at that point in time I did

18     know roughly, but all of that is nearby.  I can communicate with

19     everyone, so it didn't really matter to me that much.  Probably I did

20     know approximately.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Do you know now?  Can you remember any now?

22             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, no.  No, no.  I just remember

23     the ones where I was.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much.

25             Mr. Thomas.

Page 11162

 1             MR. THOMAS:

 2        Q.   All right, Mr. Jevdjevic.  I've nearly finished.  I've just got a

 3     couple of questions that I want to ask you about your service, please.

 4             First of all, you applied for and got double years of service for

 5     your pension from the VJ in respect of the time you spent serving in the

 6     VRS specifically from up until March 1996; is that right?

 7        A.   Could you please repeat that, because I seem to be hearing both

 8     you and the interpreter at the same time, so I didn't quite understand

 9     what you were saying.

10        Q.   Okay.  You receive a military pension?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   It covers your entire period of service in the JNA, the

13     30th Personnel Centre, VRS, and the VJ, doesn't it?

14        A.   Yes.

15        Q.   In respect of the years you spent in the VRS while the war was

16     occurring in Bosnia, you received double years' service for your pension;

17     is that right?

18        A.   Yes.

19        Q.   All right.  From the period 1 September 1994 until the

20     31st of January, 1995, we have heard evidence that the money for -- or

21     salaries stopped getting paid for members of the 30th Personnel Centre.

22     Was your salary stopped during that period?

23        A.   Yes.

24        Q.   And did you successfully apply for the payment of that salary

25     in -- many years later, in 2001?

Page 11163

 1        A.   Yes.  There was a procedure before the organs in charge in

 2     Serbia.  I personally did not ask for that, but that was resolved in a

 3     uniformed manner for all.

 4             THE INTERPRETER:  Interpreter's note:  Could all other

 5     microphones please be switched off when the witness is speaking.

 6     Thank you.

 7             MR. THOMAS:  My apologies, Madam Interpreter.

 8        Q.   You spoke yesterday, Mr. Jevdjevic, of your training in the VJ,

 9     specifically you said that you were serving in the VRS until you were

10     sent for a year's training in the VJ, whereupon you returned to the VRS,

11     which is where you spent your time until you retired.  You recall giving

12     that testimony yesterday?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   You were transferred to the military school on the

15     9th of June, 1998.  Does that sound right, sir?

16        A.   Probably, if there is information to that effect.  I don't

17     remember it exactly, but probably it was then, 1998.

18        Q.   And you were returned by order of the chief of personnel of the

19     General Staff of the VJ to the 30th Personnel Centre on the

20     2nd of August, 1999.  Does that sound right, sir?

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Mair.

22             MR. MAIR:  It appears that Mr. Thomas is reading from a document,

23     and the witness seems a bit unclear.  I don't know if it would be

24     beneficial for the witness to view the document.  That might clarify some

25     of this.

Page 11164

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

 2             MR. THOMAS:  That won't be necessary, sir.  Thank you.

 3        Q.   So you were transferred back to the 30th Personnel Centre

 4     August 1999.  Does that sound correct?

 5        A.   Yes.  I was returned to the VRS because I was its member, but

 6     this paperwork was never available to me, and I really don't know.

 7        Q.   Okay.  All right.  Well, here's something you might know, sir.

 8     Can you explain to Their Honours why you didn't tell them that you served

 9     in Kosovo?

10        A.   Nobody asked me that.

11        Q.   You were asked to summarise your military service after 1995.

12        A.   Nobody asked me that.  I can always say that.  I have no problem

13     in saying that.

14        Q.   Well, you didn't say that yesterday.  But, nevertheless, you

15     acknowledge you served in Kosovo?

16        A.   During my schooling, the aggression against Serbia occurred.  We

17     were all there in that academy, the school centre where we had been

18     reassigned, and then we were all assigned to certain war units, and I

19     have no reservations in saying that to anyone, any time, anywhere.

20        Q.   Except --

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Jevdjevic, I will ask you one more time.

22     Please listen to the question and answer the question.  The question

23     simply is:  But nevertheless, you acknowledge you served in Kosovo?

24             Your answer is going to either be a Yes or a No.  Thank you.

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

Page 11165

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  That way, you'll go home quicker.

 2             MR. THOMAS:

 3        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, I just want to see that I have certain things

 4     straight.

 5             And as it -- through the Bosnian war you were fighting as a

 6     member of the VRS; is that right?

 7        A.   Yes, yes.

 8        Q.   You had your status regulated through the 30th Personnel Centre?

 9        A.   Yes.

10        Q.   You were transferred to the military academy in 1998?

11        A.   Yes.

12        Q.   The military academy was in Belgrade?

13        A.   Yes.

14        Q.   While you were at the military academy, you were deployed to

15     Kosovo?

16        A.   Yes.  That was our own choice.

17        Q.   You were ordered there by order of the chief of the personnel

18     administration of the General Staff of the VJ, assigned to the

19     VJ 3rd Army.

20        A.   Yes.  Some of us did not respond to that call, others did.  Those

21     who did not went back to the VRS, and those who did were redeployed to

22     the 3rd Army.

23        Q.   And after service in Kosovo, you returned and were deployed back

24     to the VRS.  Is that your position?

25        A.   No.  I came back, completed my schooling, and after completing my

Page 11166

 1     schooling I returned to the army of the VRS.

 2        Q.   All right.  Mr. Jevdjevic, thank you.  That concludes my

 3     questions for you.

 4             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you very much, Mr. Thomas.

 6             Mr. Mair, any re-examination?

 7             MR. MAIR:  Yes, Your Honour.  If I could just have one moment.  I

 8     think it would go much quicker if I could have that.

 9             JUDGE MOLOTO:  All right.

10             MR. MAIR:  Thank you.

11                           [Defence counsel confer]

12             MR. MAIR:  Yes, Your Honour.  I have just a few questions.  Thank

13     you for the moment.  I think this will be rather short, I hope.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Mair.

15                           Re-examination by Mr. Mair:

16        Q.   Good morning, Mr. Jevdjevic.

17        A.   Good morning.

18        Q.   If we could just pick up the -- the topic you were just

19     discussing with Mr. Thomas regarding your time at the school in Belgrade

20     and Kosovo.  Do you recall how many members of the VRS attended this

21     school at the same time as you?

22        A.   Yes.  There were 32 of us.

23        Q.   And at page 50, line 12, starting at line 12, you said:

24             "Some of us did not respond to that call, others did."

25             Could you tell us how many responded to that call?

Page 11167

 1        A.   Thirty of us.

 2        Q.   The 30 of you who responded to the call, did they all go to the

 3     same place?

 4        A.   No.  We were deployed all over the war theatre of

 5     Serbia and Montenegro.  I happened to be assigned to the garrison at

 6     Kosovo.

 7        Q.   Who was the Chief of Staff of the VJ when you were deployed to

 8     Kosovo?

 9        A.   I don't know.

10        Q.   Very well.  I just have one other topic.  During your testimony

11     with Mr. Thomas, you discussed --

12        A.   I do apologise.  I think it was General Ojdanic.  I think it was

13     General Ojdanic.  And General Pavkovic was the commander of the 3rd Army.

14        Q.   Okay.  During your testimony with Mr. Thomas you were asked a

15     series of questions about Pribicevac, the forward command post during the

16     Krivaja 95 operation.  Do you recall that testimony?

17        A.   Yes.

18        Q.   How long were you at the forward command post at Pribicevac?

19     Until what date?

20        A.   Until the 11th of July, 1995.

21        Q.   A that point, on the 11th of July, where did you go?

22        A.   I disbanded the communications centre for commanding that

23     operation.  And acting on the personal orders of General Mladic, I was

24     transferred to establish the communications centre for the Stupcanica

25     operation in the general area of Zepa.

Page 11168

 1        Q.   When you say that you disbanded the communications centre, what

 2     do you mean?  What was the -- what did you actually do?

 3        A.   I set up a new communications centre to serve the needs of the

 4     command post for the operation at Zepa.

 5        Q.   Regarding the disbanding of the old command post, what sort of

 6     communications were left in the area, if anything?  And by "the area,"

 7     I'm referring to Srebrenica.

 8             MR. THOMAS:  Sorry, Your Honours.  I don't see how that arises,

 9     that question arises out of cross-examination.

10             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Mair.

11             MR. MAIR:  Your Honour, without getting too deeply into it, we've

12     dealt with the communications at both Srebrenica and Zepa, as well as

13     several intercepts at that point in time, and so the question is relevant

14     as to the existence of the communications system and conversations that

15     took place in that time.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I'm not quite sure I understand what you are

17     saying, Mr. Mair.  You know, the -- do -- how is it relevant to the

18     existence the communications system and conversations?  Are you going to

19     tell us all about the conversations that took place?  I'm not quite sure

20     what you're saying.

21             MR. MAIR:  I certainly hope not.  No.  We've -- Mr. Thomas showed

22     Mr. Jevdjevic several intercepts that took place during the 14th and the

23     16th of July and a little bit later.  Mr. Jevdjevic just discussed that

24     on the 11th of July he disbanded the forward command post.  I am simply

25     trying to see what the effect of that was.

Page 11169

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Given that the intercepts that were given are

 2     after the 11th -- are dated after the 11th?

 3             MR. MAIR:  Yes.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  The objection is overruled, and I will

 5     allow the question.

 6             MR. MAIR:

 7        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, I will repeat my question:

 8             "Regarding the disbanding -- the disbanding of the old command

 9     post, what sort of communications were left in the area, if anything, and

10     by "the area," I'm referring to Srebrenica."

11        A.   No communications were left.  When the communications centre is

12     disbanded, there's no longer any possibility of commanding the units that

13     had participated in that operation.

14        Q.   Mr. Jevdjevic, I have no further questions.

15             MR. MAIR:  Thank you, Your Honour.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much, Mr. Mair.

17             Judge.

18                           Questioned by the Court:

19             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Mr. Jevdjevic, I would like to ask

20     you one or two questions regarding the transmission, the communications

21     system of the VRS.  You told us that almost all transmissions or

22     communications went through Serbia and Montenegro; is that right?

23        A.   No.  The army of VRS used stationary hubs at Crni Vrh, Cer, and

24     Strazbenica, which were in the immediate vicinity of the border with

25     Serbia.  These were the end points used to reflect certain communications

Page 11170

 1     back to our own side.  The VRS had its independent communications system,

 2     and only the Drina Corps at the far east, in order to communicate with

 3     certain of its brigades, had to carry out transit through points on

 4     several hills which are actually very close to the border with Serbia.

 5             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Just to be sure I understand

 6     correctly, so you're talking about relays.  Those relays which were

 7     allowing communications to go through the Drina Corps army did not go

 8     through Serbia and Montenegro?  Is that what you're saying?  I thought

 9     that this is what you said during your testimony, but now I'm a little

10     lost.

11        A.   The VRS had a completely autonomous communication system,

12     completely independent.  Only at its eastern end, where the Drina Corps

13     was, near the River Drina, because of the lack of optical line of sight

14     with certain units we used three relays on the territory of Serbia and

15     Montenegro which we used only for purposes of transit of communications

16     for the needs of the Drina Corps of the VRS.

17             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very well.  Thank you very much.

18     This is what I thought you said earlier.

19             But now regarding the communications, they were all encrypted; is

20     that right?

21        A.   All written communications were encrypted, but only some oral

22     communications were encrypted.

23             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very well.  Was the VJ able to

24     know what written communications said?  Were they able to decode those

25     communications?  Were they able to get the codes?

Page 11171

 1        A.   No.  No.  Our units had the codes according to its level, the

 2     level of the unit.  So only units having corresponding code books could

 3     decrypt each other's messages, and this was all organised by unit.

 4             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] But in every army you have

 5     specialised services, specialised in decoding transmissions.  It's a

 6     classic case; right?

 7        A.   Yes.  I'm being very practical in my explanations.  To avoid

 8     having certain levels of command bypassing their immediate superiors, the

 9     brigade had one code book which was valid as far as the corps command,

10     and it was only on that stretch that they could encode and encrypt and

11     decrypt.  And then further on another code would be used.  So only at the

12     two end points could the messages be decrypted.

13             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very well.  But according to you,

14     the Yugoslav Army did not have the necessary codes to decode these

15     transmissions or these communications?

16        A.   Well, I really don't know that.  I don't know.  I only know as

17     far as the Drina Corps level is concern.  So I really couldn't answer

18     your question.

19             What we encrypted at the level of the Drina Corps and within the

20     VRS as an independent communication system, I'm sure the VRS did not have

21     those code books.  I'm absolutely sure of that.

22             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] You mean the VJ, not the VRS?

23        A.   Yes, yes.  Yes.  The VJ was independent and autonomous, as was

24     the VRS.  And no one, including the VJ, could decode messages sent by the

25     VRS.

Page 11172

 1             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Yes, that's theoretically the

 2     case, but in practice there were many VJ officers such as you who were in

 3     the VRS.  That allowed, in a certain way, for codes to be given to the

 4     Yugoslav Army; right?

 5             MR. MAIR:  Excuse me.  I don't mean to interrupt, but just so I

 6     can understand.  "There are many VJ officers such as you."  I don't know

 7     that we've had evidence of that.  I just want to make sure that was not a

 8     translation issue, that's all.

 9             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Is that a question for me?

10             MR. MAIR:  Yes, it was, Your Honour.  I'm sorry.

11             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Yes, that's what I said, in fact,

12     that there were VJ officers who worked in the VRS, just like our witness

13     today, and this is why I wanted to know.  He was, if I understood

14     correctly, a VJ officer before working for the VRS.  He was still paid by

15     the VJ.  And then afterwards he was trained at the VJ academy.  He was

16     first -- well, he was in the VJ when he went to Kosovo.  Maybe I sort of

17     shortened the question or put it all together, but that was, in fact, my

18     question.

19        A.   You've put several questions.  I personally felt, and I still

20     feel that way, as a member of the VRS.  I was sent for schooling to

21     Serbia following an order of the VRS.  And if anything urgent happened, I

22     would immediately be sent back.  But now I'll answer your question.

23             As regards encryption --

24             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I'm interrupting you only to tell

25     you the following:  What you're saying is not exactly true.  It's not the

Page 11173

 1     VRS who sent you to Kosovo; right?

 2        A.   When the VRS sent us for schooling, we entered the chain of

 3     command of the school, and all my colleagues who were in Greece at the

 4     academy and a colleague of mine who was in a French school in Saint Cyr,

 5     they all became part of that chain of command of -- of the school or

 6     academy where they were.  We shared the same schoolrooms, the same

 7     facilities --

 8             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I would like to stop you here

 9     because that was not my question, and I would not like to go into this to

10     know whether some Yugoslav officers who were on training ... but that was

11     not my question.  My question was the following:  I wanted to know if, by

12     the fact that there were many VJ officers in the VRS, if that did not

13     contribute, was this not an important factor in the sense that the

14     communications could be decoded by the VJ?  There were means.  It was

15     easy to just share codes or to give codes.  Maybe for you it was not

16     really important that the VJ made decode your transit communications; is

17     that right?

18        A.   In -- to be involved in encryption involves the highest

19     confidentiality, the highest state secret.  I did not complete the course

20     for encryption because I failed to fulfil some security conditions.  I'm

21     just saying this to show how strict these conditions were and how

22     important it was for all those involved in encryption to observe the

23     strictest confidentiality.  I never heard of anyone involved in

24     encryption selling or lending or giving anybody else the code books.

25             JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Very well.  Thank you very much

Page 11174

 1     for your answers.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Any questions arising from the questions by the

 3     Bench, Mr. Mair?

 4             MR. MAIR:  Just briefly, Your Honour.

 5                           Further Re-examination by Mr. Mair:

 6        Q.   Just so that we're clear, Mr. Jevdjevic, you were not a VJ

 7     officer at any point in time; is that correct?

 8        A.   During the war from 1992 onwards, from the point of time when the

 9     VRS was established, I was always a member of the VRS.

10             MR. MAIR:  Thank -- one second, please.

11                           [Defence counsel confer]

12             MR. MAIR:  I have nothing further, Your Honour.

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

14             Mr. Thomas?  Thank you so much.

15             Mr. Jevdjevic, that brings us to the end of your testimony.

16     Thank you so much for coming to testify at the Tribunal, and may you

17     travel well back home.  You are now excused.  You may stand down.  Thank

18     you so much.

19                           [The witness withdrew]

20             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Guy-Smith.

21             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Yes, Your Honour.  That concludes the witnesses

22     that we have for the balance of today.  Our next witness is scheduled for

23     Monday morning.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Have you finished?  She wanted to tell you

25     something before you sit down.

Page 11175

 1             MR. GUY-SMITH:  I better make sure.

 2                           [Defence counsel confer]

 3             MR. GUY-SMITH:  I'm okay.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  Then we stand adjourned to Monday morning

 5     at 9.00, Courtroom II.

 6             Court adjourned.

 7                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 11.58 a.m.,

 8                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 22nd day

 9                           of March, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.