1 Tuesday, 23 March 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.14 p.m.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good afternoon to everybody in and around the
6 courtroom. Madam Registrar, will you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours.
8 Good afternoon everyone in and around the courtroom.
9 This is case number IT-04-81-T, The Prosecutor versus
10 Momcilo Perisic.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
12 Could we have the appearances for the day, starting with the
14 MR. SAXON: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Dan Saxon,
15 Bronagh McKenna, and Inger de Ru.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Saxon.
17 And for the Defence.
18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
19 Good afternoon to all participants in these proceedings.
20 Mr. Perisic is represented today by Novak Lukic, Gregor Guy-Smith, and
21 Boris Zorko.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
23 For the record, the Chamber is still sitting pursuant to
24 Rule 15 bis in Judge David's absence. He is still indisposed.
25 Good afternoon, Mr. Malcic. Good afternoon, Mr. Malcic.
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good afternoon.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just to remind you, sir, that you are still bound
3 by the declaration you made at the beginning of your testimony to tell
4 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing else but the truth.
5 WITNESS: STOJAN MALCIC [Resumed]
6 [Witness answered through interpreter]
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I understand.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much -- thank you.
9 Mr. Lukic.
10 Examination by Mr. Lukic: [Continued]
11 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Malcic, good afternoon.
12 A. Good afternoon.
13 Q. We will continue from where we broke off yesterday. However, in
14 order to ensure continuity, can we please look at the document we ended
15 with yesterday.
16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] So could we have D301 on our screens,
18 Q. Let us recall what we discussed yesterday.
19 We actually finished with this document. This is important
20 because I would like to ensure continuity in terms of your career that
21 we're dealing with now.
22 This is a document of the Minister of Defence of
23 Republika Srpska, Mr. Kovacevic, appointing you to the Main Staff of the
24 Army of Republika Srpska. You are appointed head of the department for
25 personnel affairs and, at the same time, you were deputy assistant
1 commander for organisation, mobilisation, and personnel affairs. And
2 that is part of the sector for organisation, mobilisation, and personal
3 affairs. It's a complicated name. But, according to this document, that
4 was the appointment that you had then on the 3rd of September, 1993.
5 So we've already seen that.
6 A. That is the post I held until the end of the war.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: I must remind counsel and witness to please break
8 between question and answer.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, yes.
10 Q. When this order was passed, what was the document that followed
11 this order dated the 3rd of September, 1993?
12 A. The next document was the report on hand-over of duty; I signed
13 it; and it was certified by my superior officer.
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have document
15 [In English] doc ID 1D11-0493.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Does it have a D at the end?
17 MR. LUKIC: No. It's not from 65 ter Defence witnesses.
18 Q. [Interpretation] What is this now, Mr. Malcic?
19 A. This is a report on taking up duty on the basis of the previous
20 order. We see here the exact date when I assumed that duty. I signed
21 the document. And it was certified by Mico Grubor, my superior.
22 Q. So let me not repeat that long name of your new position. But it
23 was within the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska.
24 You were appointed chief of a department?
25 A. Yes, on the basis of the previous order.
1 Q. In relation to your status rights concerning your salary, what
2 happened on the basis of this document?
3 A. The order that we previously saw on our screen -- and in this
4 report, we saw that I was receiving a salary that was two salary grades
5 higher than previously, because I'm moving towards number 1. I'm moving
6 towards the top level, number 1. This document is sent to the military
7 accounting centre, "racunovodstveni," because it changed its name often.
8 It was called "racunski," computer centre, as well. So that is what I'm
9 going call it. That was the centre that actually calculated the salaries
10 of active-duty military personnel.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yeah, but the question was, On this form here,
12 what happened to your salary? We see here there is an 8 and a 7.
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the basis of this document, I
14 started receiving my new salary, because this document was sent to the
15 military accounting centre, where the salary was calculated on the basis
16 of new elements. I had a higher position group now, that is to say, I
17 was better paid.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Group 8?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please have an exhibit number
22 for this document, Your Honour.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
24 please be given an exhibit number.
25 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00302.
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. We are dealing with matters chronologically now. This is before
4 the personnel centres were established.
5 In addition to your regular salary, during this first period of
6 time, did you receive any other benefits? Did you enjoy any other status
7 benefits as if you were a member of the Army of Yugoslavia?
8 A. As far as I can remember, at the time, they just recognised that
9 we would have a higher salary on the basis of the payment group
10 concerned. I'm not sure and I do not recall that we received any extra
11 benefits, as prescribed by the rules on payments, such as a separation
12 grant and other grants and benefits. Perhaps we did receive them;
13 perhaps we didn't. At this point in time, I really cannot remember.
14 Q. Now we're going to look at a document and perhaps that will jog
15 your memory.
16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have on our screens
17 now [In English] [Previous translation continues] ... 1D11-0500.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated]
19 MR. LUKIC: Doc ID 1D11-0500.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. We saw that your appointment took place and that it was on the
23 3rd of September that the minister made that decision for the period
24 starting the 1st of June, 1993.
25 We, in this courtroom, know that this is the period before the
1 personnel centres were established. Can you tell us what this is?
2 A. It was only in mid-1993, as I see in this document, that we
3 received instructions to the effect that we could make decisions for
4 active-duty personnel serving in the Army of Republika Srpska on benefits
5 enjoyed on account of living separately from one's family. We did not
6 live with our families, so that was an entitlement we had on the basis of
7 the rules and regulations. We were entitled to an allowance if we did
8 not live within the same garrison with our families.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we have a look at page 2,
11 Q. What we see here is that this was submitted to various
12 addressees. Can you tell us who the addressees were and whose stamp this
14 A. This document goes directly to the military accounting centre in
16 rather, the other stamp by the signature is of the
17 Army of Republika Srpska, the round stamp. And here you can see that the
18 accounting centre in Belgrade
19 stamp that we see below. And they therefore received it.
20 Q. You said the centre in Belgrade
21 A. Here it says the accounting centre of the Ministry of Defence in
23 do forgive me if I get a bit confused.
24 Q. Who signed the document?
25 A. My superior at the time, Mico Grubor.
1 Q. Whose stamp is this, which army?
2 A. As I said a moment ago, it's a stamp -- it is, rather, the stamp
3 of the military post code of the Main Staff of the
4 Army of Republika Srpska. At that time, it was denoted Sarajevo.
5 Q. At that time, before personnel centres were established, were
6 these documents sent directly to the accounting centre?
7 A. Yes.
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please get an exhibit number
9 for this document, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted into evidence. May it
11 please be given an exhibit number.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honour, that will be Exhibit D00303.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] And another document, please. I'd
15 like us to have a look at it.
16 The document is doc ID [In English] [Previous translation
17 continues] ... 11-0492.
18 Q. [Interpretation] Can you see this right?
19 A. Could you please zoom in a bit? Very well.
20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have the English now
21 as well so that the Trial Chamber can follow.
22 Q. What is this document? What does it speak of?
23 A. This is a decision of Military Post 7572, or, rather, the
24 Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska. It is a decision pertaining
25 to myself, stating that I am entitled to benefits that are actually a
1 hardship allowance, because we received information then that they were
2 entitled to such benefits too. In order to enjoy this benefit, a proper
3 document had to be passed and that is this particular decision.
4 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please see the bottom of the
5 document so that we see who signed it.
6 Q. We saw that it was the military post code of Sarajevo?
7 A. This document specifically was signed by commander of the
8 Main Staff Colonel General Ratko Mladic.
9 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we move the document to the
10 left a bit so that we can see who it was sent to.
11 Q. It says here RC MO VG?
12 A. It says "To the person concerned." That's what it says first.
13 So I received a copy. That is the first bullet point. One copy was sent
14 directly to the accounting centre of the Ministry of Defence of the
15 Army of Yugoslavia
16 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we zoom out because I am
17 looking for another comment.
18 Q. See here on the right there is something else; there's a stamp?
19 Could you perhaps tell us whose stamp that is on the right-hand side?
20 A. It is the stamp of the controller from the accounting centre of
21 the Ministry of Defence of the Army of Yugoslavia hereby certifying that
22 the decision was reached in accordance with the rules in the
23 Army of Yugoslavia
24 Q. First I'm going to ask you whether you remember, whether you, in
25 the personnel administration of the Main Staff, whether you ever had
1 documents returned to you. If that was the case, why were they returned
2 to you?
3 A. We did our best to ensure that every one of our documents is
4 proper. If a document that was not right would be sent to the accounting
5 centre of the Ministry of Defence of the Army of Yugoslavia, then this
6 controller who controlled these documents would return this document to
7 us directly to the Main Staff, noting that we had made an error.
8 Q. Can you tell us how many such cases had you in your career, if
10 A. I do not remember that there ever were such cases specifically in
11 relation to what we did at the Main Staff. But if that did happen, we
12 did as ordered. We rectified the mistake concerned, and we'd send a
13 proper document.
14 Q. Was it possible for anyone in the accounting centre to order you
15 to do anything, or did they just furnish comments?
16 MR. SAXON: Objection.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Saxon.
18 MR. SAXON: Well, the way that was question was structured,
19 particularly after the last response of the witness, suggests the answer
20 that Mr. Lukic wants. It's a leading question.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Lukic.
22 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Well, I asked a simple question of
23 the witness. I didn't include any leading or suggestive remark.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: You are -- are you suggesting something, sir. You
25 had asked the question previously. It got answered. And if you -- you
1 want further information, still ask an open-ended question. Don't
2 suggest an answer. You are suggesting an answer.
3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I'll rephrase it, Your Honour.
4 Q. If the accounting centre found out that the document was not
5 consistent with the VJ rules and regulations, what would your course of
6 action be in that case?
7 MR. SAXON: Objection. Asked and answered. The witness has
8 already testified, we did as ordered; we rectified the mistake concerned
9 and would send a proper document.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just a second, please.
11 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Just a moment, please. The witness
12 said that rectification had to be done as ordered, but I wanted to
13 establish who was it who was entitled to order them to do such things.
14 That is what I wanted to elicit from the witness.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated]
16 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: The question that you put didn't ask for that
18 information that you're now saying you want.
19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I have to go step by step to see what
20 happens in the event of irregularities established or found out by the
21 accounting centre.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... put the
23 question -- put the question to the witness that you've just explained to
24 the Bench you want to put. Who ordered. That's the question.
25 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
1 Q. Mr. Malcic, who ordered you or who was entitled to order you to
2 rectify a mistake, if any?
3 A. I am a professional serviceman, and I only know the relationship
4 between superiors and subordinates. Only professional staff worked at
5 the accounting centre who processed our documents. They didn't have any
6 powers to issue any orders. They could only establish that something was
7 contrary to the applicable regulations, and in that case they would
8 return such document to us. I made a slip of the tongue when I said that
9 we were ordered by them to correct our mistakes. They would, rather,
10 tell us that we had made a mistake in a decision and that we should
11 rectify this mistake. They would tell us specifically which mistake was
12 in question, and that is what I had in mind when I gave you my answer.
13 And I apologise for using the military vocabulary that I'm used to.
14 It could have been a civilian working in the accounting centre or
15 maybe an active-duty serviceman. And particularly, if it were a
16 civilian, there was no way for such a civilian to give us any orders to
17 do anything.
18 Q. As a follow-up, was anyone from the VJ entitled to give you any
20 A. I never received any order from the Yugoslav Army. All the
21 orders were received by my superior who was in the Main Staff of
22 Republika Srpska.
23 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please have an exhibit number
24 for this document, Your Honours.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Before we do that, can we go to the last page of
1 this document, please.
2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes. After that, I've noticed a
3 slight mistake in the interpretation or in the translation. But we'll
4 deal with that later.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. As to the list of addressees where the name
6 of the witness is mentioned and then the second bullet in -- second
7 bullet, the interpretation told us that that is the accounting centre of
8 the Ministry of Defence of the Serbian army. Is that the correct
9 interpretation? It suggested that the Serbian army had a
10 Ministry of Defence. That's how it has been interpreted on several
12 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] First of all, Republika Srpska had
13 its Ministry of Defence. But as it's written here, it's the
14 Ministry of Defence of the Yugoslav Army.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated]
16 THE REGISTRAR: Microphone, Your Honour.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm sorry. I will repeat myself.
18 My question is: Does the Yugoslav Army have a Ministry of
19 Defence, or does the Ministry of Defence belong to the state of
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I apologise. You first said Serbia
22 and that is why -- caused confusion with my --
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Microphone not activated]
24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] I don't know if the witness can help
25 us with that, or are you asking me to comment on this? Maybe we should
1 better ask the witness about this.
2 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... witness. I'm
3 asking the witness whether that -- is he correctly interpreted?
4 That addressee, sir, is interpreted in English as -- I suppose
5 the RC is the accounting centre of the Ministry of Defence of the
6 Yugoslav Army.
7 Is that what -- the name of that addressee?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... question to
10 you is: Does the Yugoslav Army have a Ministry of Defence?
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As far as I know, the Yugoslav Army
12 does not have the Ministry of Defence. The federal government -- the
13 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia had its government with ministries,
14 various ministries, one of the ministries was the Ministry of Defence of
15 the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... understand the
17 name the Ministry of Defence of the Yugoslav Army; that's why I'm
18 asking my -- whether you were correctly interpreted. Because that name
19 suggests that this Ministry of Defence belongs to the Yugoslav Army and
20 not to the Federation of Yugoslavia.
21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's how we called it in an
22 abbreviated form.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much, okay.
24 You may proceed, sir.
25 You said you wanted to correct something before we continued.
1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes. In the English translation on
2 the previous page and now it says that it's written "Stojan Ivacic." And
3 you can also see in the English translation if you scroll it up a bit, or
4 down, in the second paragraph it says -- in the second and third
5 paragraphs it says "Stojan Ivacic." I suppose it's just a typo. If we
6 establish here for the record that we are talking about Stojan Malcic, I
7 suppose we don't have to send the translation back for correction.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Saxon.
9 MR. SAXON: It's fine with the Prosecution, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you. Then it's fine. Then the document is
11 admitted into evidence. May it please be given an exhibit number.
12 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00304.
13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
14 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Just before we continue, I want to
15 make sure that I understood properly.
16 You said that you would not receive orders from the accounting
17 services, from the Yugoslav Army, but from your superiors, from your
18 immediate superiors. Did they receive orders from the accounting centres
19 of the Yugoslav Army?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. If I may explain, the
21 accounting centre was a centre that only performed technical services, in
22 terms of computing salaries, based on the documents that we supplied to
23 them. They didn't have any powers or authority to command. They were a
24 simple service that were processing our documents.
25 When I said that some documents were returned to us if there were
1 irregularities, I made a slip of the tongue when I said that we were
2 ordered by them to correct the mistake. We were just told by them to
3 correct the mistake that was found out. Because a technical service
4 cannot order anything to anyone; all they can do is to perform the duty
5 that they're supposed to do, based on the documents that they receive.
6 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] I do understand. It is quite
8 If you were to turn down, if you did think that it was not a
9 mistake, and if you would not correct the error, what would happen?
10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] We couldn't refuse to correct the
11 mistake because it was very obvious from the document where the mistake
12 occurred, if we compared this document to the applicable rules and
14 These were simply technical or clerical errors.
15 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Could there be no mistake in terms
16 of interpreting the text of ruling the accounting centre?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That could not happen to me when I
18 drafted this decision because these things were done by professionals who
19 interpreted everything properly. We spoke here, if such thing happened.
20 I underlined that nothing of the kind happened to me. I did my best to
21 avoid making such mistakes in the document that I drafted with my staff
22 at the personnel department of the Main Staff of the Republika Srpska.
23 JUDGE PICARD: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
24 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
25 Q. Yesterday, towards the end, we spoke about how you heard about
1 the establishing of the personnel centres and with whom you contacted
2 after their inception. You spoke about your contacts with Mr. Mijic and
3 about the records that were set up following the establishment of the
4 personnel centres.
5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we now look at P2128. That's a
6 Prosecution exhibit.
7 Q. This is a document that have quite a few pages. We are going to
8 look at page 1 first.
9 This is a compound order of the head of the personnel
10 administration of the General Staff of the Yugoslav Army dated the
11 7th of February, 1994, and the first name mentioned here is Mico Grubor.
12 Let me first ask you, Mr. Malcic, do you know what this document
13 is about and who drafted it?
14 A. This is an order on the appointment of active-duty officers
15 serving in the Army of Republika Srpska according to establishment and
16 according to the positions that they were appointed to in the
17 Army of Republika Srpska.
18 Q. But as can you see in this document, it's written something else.
19 It says Mico Grubor, 7th of February, 1994, as of 10th of November, 1993,
20 shall be appointed to the General Staff of the Yugoslav Army to the
21 30th Personnel Centre as assistant chief of the General Staff.
22 Let me first ask you this: Was Mr. Mico Grubor ever in the
23 General Staff of the Yugoslav Army and its 30th Personnel Centre, as
24 stated in this document?
25 A. General Mico Grubor, from 1992, was assistant chief of the
1 Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska for mobilisation and
3 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please switch off the
4 microphone while the witness is speaking.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are you asked to please switch off your microphone
6 when the witness is speaking. Thank you.
7 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. So what were you told? Why do we see here the
9 30th Personnel Centre mentioned here if he remained in the VRS?
10 A. This order shows that the 30th Personnel Centre was established
11 on the 10th of November, 1993; whereas, the order was written on the
12 7th of February, 1994.
13 This period of approximately two months was required for setting
14 up exact records for active-duty servicemen in the
15 Army of Republika Srpska and that they be collated. I, as the head of
16 the personnel department of the Main Staff of the VRS, and Gojko Mijic
17 from the 30th Personnel Centre of the VJ, as is written here, were to do
18 that. This 30th Personnel Centre now operated as a technical service who
19 received proposals and documents from us in the Army of Republika Srpska;
20 and then, in turn, this centre verified whether the documents were issued
21 in accordance with the VJ rules and regulations and whether, as such, can
22 be forward to the accounting centre for payment.
23 For that reason, he had to, based on our proposals that we
24 supplied in the meantime, to appoint all the officers that served in the
25 Army of Republika Srpska as shown here in this order. It says here that
1 Mico Grubor was appointed, and the -- the first line it says in the
2 General Staff of the VJ and actually to its 30th Personnel Centre.
3 However, the other details confirm that he was serving in the Main Staff
4 of the Army of Republika Srpska and discharging the duty of assistant
5 commander for organisation, mobilisation, and personnel affairs.
6 Q. Please don't touch the screen.
7 A. I apologise.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: [Previous translation continues] ... little bit. I
9 guess it may have disappeared in some of the screens.
10 At page 16, line 11, and at page -- any way, it's two places.
11 The first being at page 16, line 11, we are being told of the date of the
12 10th of November, 1993, or -- and also page 17, line 2,
13 10th of November, 1993. I see 12th. I don't see 10th on the document.
14 Can I be helped, please, just to make sure that we have the same
15 document. On the document I see the date of the 12th, and I looked at
16 both the B/C/S and the English.
17 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes. Your Honours, perhaps it would
18 be a good idea if the witness could put a circle around where he sees
19 this date, the 10th of November, 1993, using this electronic pen.
20 Q. Just a moment, Mr. Malcic, please wait.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: That will be very helpful.
22 [Trial Chamber confers]
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The 10th of November, 1993
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Now I see -- oh, okay. Thank you.
25 You may proceed, Mr. Lukic.
1 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
2 Q. Who provided these data to the 30th Personnel Centre, these
4 A. Codes?
5 Q. I'll ask you specifically. How is it that you see that
6 Mico Grubor is in the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska? Is
7 there a parameter specifying that?
8 A. I know that these orders were made on the basis of our orders, on
9 the basis of which these officers were truly appointed to duties in the
10 Army of Republika Srpska.
11 Q. Now, which are the parameters involved? I'll ask you a
12 specifically only about this number 3500 or, rather, the document we
13 looked at yesterday.
14 A. Oh, that code. 3500. That is from our formation of the
15 Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska. Because further on it says
16 in the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia
17 30th Personnel Centre in the Main Staff. So the Main Staff is what
18 counts, and that is its code. 3500. When the establishment was being
19 worked out on the basis of the code table, this was specified for the
20 Main Staff. That is our code for the Army of Republika Srpska.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now go at -- go to page --
22 well, I don't know what the witness marked now. Should we have that
23 admitted as a separate exhibit or not? Perhaps it's clear enough to the
24 Trial Chamber. Perhaps -- well, no problem. No, it's okay.
25 In B/C/S, 25. And in English, 27 and part of page 28, please.
1 Q. In this same document, we also see the following information.
2 Malcic Stojan, son of Petar, again, the 10th of November, 1993, is
3 referred to as a date. And then it says:
4 "General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia, 30th Personnel Centre
5 in the Main Staff, as section chief."
6 Now I'm going to ask you the following, Mr. Malcic. A few
7 moments ago we read that long title that you held when you were appointed
8 to this duty, so I don't want to repeat it once again. During your
9 military service, were you -- did you ever serve in the
10 30th Personnel Centre of the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia in
11 the Main
12 A. No. No. May I explain?
13 Q. Could you please repeat when this order was ordered --
14 February -- issued, February 1994. What position did you hold?
15 A. Head of the personnel department in the sector for mobilisation
16 and organisational affairs in the Main Staff of the
17 Army of Republika Srpska. It's a long title.
18 Q. Did you receive this document from the 30th Personnel Centre,
19 and, after that, did you do anything at your personnel department in this
21 A. I received this document. And on the basis of this document, I
22 compiled a report on the hand-over of duty. And I signed it and
23 Mico Grubor, my superior, signed it as well, and we sent it back to the
24 30th Personnel Centre so that they would then forward it to the
25 accounting centre of the Ministry of Defence of the Army of
1 Republika Srpska -- of the Army of Yugoslav because we could not
2 communicate directly anymore with them. We had to go through the
3 personnel centre because they were there to --
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Slow down, sir. The interpreter is struggling.
6 You may continue.
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That report on the hand-over of
8 duty, let me repeat that. We submitted that to the
9 30th Personnel Centre, because now we had that organ as a technical
10 service controlling our documents. And then they forwarded it to the
11 accounting centre. We could not communicate directly with the accounting
12 centre any longer, except in some urgent cases perhaps we could address
13 them directly then. I'm not sure.
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. In terms of form, was it the same document that you sent earlier
16 on to the accounting centre directly?
17 A. It is exactly the same form. I think that we used the exact same
18 forms, the ones that we found and that were used in the former JNA.
19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we now look at another
20 document. Could we have it on our screens.
21 Just a second, Your Honours.
22 [Defence counsel confer]
23 MR. LUKIC: Doc ID [Interpretation] 1D11-0491, please.
24 Q. This is a report on taking up duty. The date is the
25 10th of November, 1993. It concerns Stojan Malcic, who took up duty on
1 the 10th of November, 1993, chief of section in the Main Staff in the
2 30th Personnel Centre, the Yugoslavia
3 What can you tell me about this document, Mr. Malcic?
4 A. This is a report on taking up duty on the basis of the previous
5 order that we saw here on the screen.
6 We see here that it was exactly on the 10th of November, 1993
7 that I took up the duty of chief of section, as it says here. It was
8 department, actually, but in order to have the proper kind of document,
9 what was written in the order had to be copied verbatim.
10 So we sent this in two copies to that technical service of ours,
11 that 30th Personnel Centre. One copy was certified here by the signature
12 of my superior, Mico Grubor. The other one was signed, but it did not
13 have a stamp. It's Military Post Code 3001 that was stamped there, that
14 is to say, the 30th Personnel Centre. And that was supposed to show the
15 accounting centre that the document had gone through the
16 30th Personnel Centre.
17 Q. Just a moment, please, let us be more specific.
18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we have the bottom of the
19 document, please.
20 Q. We see here the stamp of Military Post 3001. In the Main Staff
21 of the Army of Republika Srpska, did you have that stamp of the
22 Military Post 3001?
23 A. No, we did not.
24 Q. To the best of your knowledge, did anyone in the Main Staff of
25 the Army of Republika Srpska have that stamp?
1 A. No. This is a stamp --
2 Q. Just a moment, please. To the best of your knowledge, who had
3 this stamp, and when is this stamp affixed on a document?
4 A. It is only the 30th Personnel Centre that had this stamp and also
5 that square stamp. So the round stamp and the square stamp was only in
6 the 30th Personnel Centre. Gojko Mijic had it. As far as I know, no one
7 else had these stamps.
8 Q. The document was signed by who?
9 A. Can you see here very nicely, Mico Grubor, my superior in the
10 Army of the Republika Srpska.
11 Q. Tell me, now, why is there no stamp here of the
12 Army of Republika Srpska, what you tried to explain to us a few moments
14 A. Because that is what was agreed upon technically, that I should
15 submit two such forms to the 30th Personnel Centre; one stamped with a
16 stamp of the Main Staff. I think that 7572 Sarajevo was the
17 military post code. And the other document would not be stamped, it
18 would just be signed. Then when it arrives in the 30th Personnel Centre,
19 then Gojko Mijic sees that this second copy was signed by the officer,
20 and then he affixes the stamp of Military Post 3001. And that was the
21 agreement that this is how we would deal with documents.
22 Q. Once again, I'm going to ask you, since you signed this document,
23 were you ever chief of sector in the Main Staff of the
24 30th Personnel Centre of the General Staff of the Army of Yugoslavia?
25 A. I see that you're asking me this question for the second time
1 now. I hope that you understand this time.
2 This order consists of two parts; the left side where we write
3 the names according to establishment as we saw and on the right-hand side
4 where we just have these numbers. Now, these numbers were set on the
5 basis of code tables, on the basis of instructions for dealing with these
6 names that were later on used for automatic data processing as we called
7 it then. Since the code tables could actually deal with my name because
8 my name was not very long, so Mijic just cut this short. Some people
9 were chiefs of sections, others were chiefs of department, but it was
10 easier for him to put that code for chief of section. And then he would
11 have that code and that would mean that it was in that organ.
12 I don't know if I'm being clear about this.
13 Q. Did you ever serve in the Army of Yugoslavia?
14 A. No.
15 Q. The stamp that you see here on the right-hand side, it says the
16 13th of May, 1994. Seen as correct.
17 A. Again, this is the controller at the accounting centre. I cannot
18 see on the basis of the signature whether it's a military person or a
20 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have an exhibit
21 number for this document, Your Honour.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: The document is admitted. May it please be given
23 an exhibit number.
24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit D00305.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
1 Yes, Mr. Lukic.
2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. Yesterday we looked at the Law on the Army of Republika Srpska,
4 and I would like us to have a look at another document now.
5 We'd like to hear your comments with regard to another topic
6 [In English] [Previous translation continues] ... 117.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Say that again, Mr. Lukic.
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] We have to move into private session.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
10 [Private session]
11 Pages 11283-11285 redacted. Private session.
12 [Open session]
13 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we're back in open session.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
15 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
16 Q. When we discussed appointments a while ago, I have a question in
17 relation to that. If a professional serviceman in the
18 Army of Republika Srpska is transferred from one post to another, was
19 there anyone in the Yugoslav Army that took part in this decision?
20 A. No. That was exclusively under the jurisdiction of the officer
21 in charge of the VRS, pursuant to the decree on the status-related issues
22 in the VRS. We didn't use any other documents as a basis for
23 appointments. No one could give us any written or oral order in that
24 respect with the exception of the officer in charge.
25 Q. If this transfer from one post to another does not affect in any
1 way his status-related benefits, salary, and things like that, do you at
2 all have to inform the personnel centre thereof?
3 A. No. There was no need for that because the -- it didn't produce
4 any effect on the salary. We could only provide a copy of this document
5 for the purpose of updating the personal file of that individual so that
6 there wouldn't be any surprises at a later stage when it's discovered
7 that he was transferred from one post to another.
8 Q. Let us now talk about promotions.
9 According to the regulations of the Army of Republika Srpska, who
10 decided on promotions?
11 A. Only the officer in charge defined by the bylaw or by the decree
12 who made a decision on promotions of officers.
13 Q. Yesterday we reviewed the Law on the Army of Republika Srpska,
14 which provides promotions and who decides on promotions of the
15 highest-ranking officers. For example, who issues a decision when we are
16 speaking about promotion to the rank of general?
17 A. The president of the republic issues a decree promoting a -- an
18 individual to the rank of general, that is to say, the president of
19 Republika Srpska.
20 [Defence counsel confer]
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. I don't know if I'm going to use the proper term. What is the
23 Personnel Council of the Main Staff of the VRS -- or, rather, was there
24 any kind of body in the Main Staff that was involved in any way in
25 promotions of officers?
1 A. Immediately, when the Army of Republika Srpska was set up, and
2 pursuant to the establishment, an order was issued to that -- which
3 provided that all the promotions and appointments shall be --
4 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: Could the witness please
5 repeat the last answer.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Could you please repeat the last part of your
7 answer, sir.
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
9 Q. I'm going to repeat the whole question.
10 So can you tell us what was the Personnel Council of the
11 Main Staff of the VRS?
12 A. The Personnel Council of the Main Staff of the VRS was a body
13 established at the level of the Main Staff of the VRS. Its task was to
14 discuss and reach decisions on promotions and decorations of all members
15 of the Army of Republika Srpska. That's in the shortest possible way
16 that I can explain this.
17 Q. Do you know who sat on this council, roughly speaking?
18 A. As far as I remember, the Personnel Council of the commander of
19 the Main Staff was made up of the commander of the Main Staff, all his
20 assistants, the corps commanders, the commander of the air force and
21 anti-aircraft defence, and sometimes, by invitation, the commanders of
22 the staff units of the communications regiment, the protection regiment,
23 the logistics base, and other units that I cannot remember at the moment
24 took part in the work of the council; or, chiefs of branches in the
25 Main Staff of Republika Srpska.
1 Q. How often did this council meet? I am not looking for a precise
3 A. As far as I know, it met twice a year: On the 28th of June,
4 which is the patron saint day of the VRS; and towards the end of the year
5 on the day of Republika Srpska.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: We'll take a break and come back at half -- at
8 Court adjourned.
9 --- Recess taken at 3.32 p.m.
10 --- On resuming at 4.01 p.m.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
12 MR. LUKIC: Thank you. [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
13 Q. Before the break, we started talking about promotions and the
14 Personnel Council of the Main Staff of the VRS. You told us the
15 composition of the council and how often it met.
16 Can you tell us now what was basically the role of this council?
17 What did it discuss, and what decisions it took. Can you tell us also
18 what kind of documents were prepared for the council sessions, and did
19 you take part in the preparation of these documents?
20 A. The Personnel Council mainly discussed the status-related issues
21 of all officers and non-commissioned officers serving in the
22 Army of Republika Srpska. Primarily, it discussed promotions,
23 appointments of officers with higher ranks that were under the
24 jurisdiction of the minister of defence, and also under the jurisdiction
25 of the commander of the Main Staff.
1 The Personnel Council of the Main Staff discussed and took
2 decisions on decorations to be accorded to all members of the
3 Army of Republika Srpska, starting from privates up to the
4 highest-ranking officers in the VRS. It drafted proposals. Actually, we
5 drafted proposals, submitted them to the minister of defence for further
6 processing, because it was under the jurisdiction of the president of
7 Republika Srpska to accord decorations to members of the VRS by issuing
8 decrees to that effect.
9 I, myself, made all the technical preparations alongside with my
10 direct subordinates by collecting information from lower-ranking units.
11 I would like to underline that each corps commander had his own
12 Personnel Council. These councils discussed the aforementioned issues
13 relating to the members of their respective corps.
14 Q. The person in charge, regardless of whether it's the president of
15 the republic or the minister of defence or the commander of the
16 Main Staff, whoever is in charge of promotions once a decision on that is
17 passed, what happens with the document? Does that have anything to do
18 with your personal department?
19 A. Yes, because I prepared all the necessary information through my
20 superior officer and personally at the Personnel Council sessions. I
21 would present that to them so that a proper decision would be made. It
22 is only logical that I would be informed as to which proposals of ours
23 were accepted and which were not. At any rate, for the most part, if I
24 remember correctly, I actually cannot remember having a single one of our
25 proposals refused. They were all discussed in detail, and appropriate
1 decisions were made on the basis of regulations in the
2 Army of Republika Srpska.
3 When the officer in charge would finally make his order on a
4 person's promotion, that order would be final for us. And it is through
5 regular channels, through subordinate units, it was communicated to all
6 the persons involved. Everyone had to be made aware of it personally,
7 and every person, therefore, had to change rank insignia on their
8 respective uniforms.
9 Since this also affected salaries, because salaries were
10 determined on the basis of rank and position group, I would take a
11 certified copy of that order -- or, rather, send it to the
12 30th Personnel Centre for their further procedure.
13 Q. Do you know what happened afterwards within the
14 30th Personnel Centre up until the salary was ultimately affected, as you
15 had put it? What happened with the decision?
16 A. As far as I can remember, the 30th Personnel Centre, headed by
17 Gojko Mijic, had that order of ours typed up in the
18 30th Personnel Centre. Then it would be sent to the accounting centre
19 for implementation. In our order, we would write our exact establishment
20 name on the basis of our establishment book, and then Mijic, in addition
21 to that, added, further up, the General Staff, the 30th Personnel Centre;
22 and all the rest of the information remained as originally written up in
23 our document.
24 Q. Did it ever happen that somebody was first promoted in the
25 30th Personnel Centre or the Army of Yugoslavia
1 Army of Republika Srpska, or was this course always followed, the one
2 that you told us about just now?
3 A. As far as I know, this was the regular channel for verifying our
4 ranks, as we called it in our very own jargon.
5 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have document 65 ter,
6 Defence [In English] [Previous translation continues] ... 961D.
7 [Defence counsel confer]
8 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, can we please move into
9 private session.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
11 [Private session]
11 Pages 11293-11300 redacted. Private session.
3 [Open session]
4 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
6 Yes, Mr. Lukic.
7 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
8 Q. Mr. Malcic, who assessed the performance of an officer?
9 A. There were rules of assessment of officers in the JNA which we
10 continued to apply in practice. From the battalion commander upwards
11 were the officers who did those assessments. There were regular
12 assessments and extraordinary assessments.
13 Q. When were these regular assessments made?
14 A. Officers were regularly assessed, as far as I remember, once in
15 four years. As for extraordinary assessments, if, after a year following
16 an assessment, this officer assumed another duty, was transferred to
17 another unit, or went to attend training, and in other situations that I
18 cannot remember now.
19 Q. What kind of elements are taken into account when assessing the
20 professional work of an officer?
21 A. According to the rules, it was accurately determined what
22 elements should be included into the assessment, but at the moment I
23 cannot remember them.
24 Q. Does this assessment have any impact on an officer's salary?
25 A. The officer who receives the grade "excellent" or "exceptionally
1 successful" after a certain period of time spent with a specific rank was
2 entitled to be moved to a higher salary group.
3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Can we please move again into private
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
6 [Private session]
11 Pages 11303-11308 redacted. Private session.
10 [Open session]
11 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
13 Yes, Mr. Lukic.
14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
15 Q. A few moments ago, you talked to us about assessments and who it
16 was that made assessments. When you worked in the personnel department
17 of the Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska, did you ever hear of
18 anyone from the Army of Yugoslavia interfering with assessments made for
19 any officer in the Army of Republika Srpska?
20 A. No.
21 Q. In order for an officer from the Army of Republika Srpska to
22 return to the Army of Yugoslavia, was it necessary to receive approval or
23 consent from the officer in charge in the Army of Republika Srpska?
24 A. Once the 30th Personnel Centre was established, it was
25 indispensable to have the consent of the officer in charge from the
1 Army of Republika Srpska for an officer to return to the
2 Army of Yugoslavia
3 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, we'll have to go back
4 into private session.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
6 [Private session]
11 Pages 11311-11315 redacted. Private session.
13 [Open session]
14 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honour.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
16 We'll take a break and come back at quarter to 6.00.
17 Court adjourned.
18 --- Recess taken at 5.15 p.m.
19 --- On resuming at 5.45 p.m.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Lukic.
21 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Mr. Malcic, yesterday you testified to the effect of your
23 becoming a member of the Army of Republika Srpska and how you arrived in
24 Han Pijesak.
25 When you arrived Han Pijesak, did you ask approval from anyone in
1 the VJ to join the Army of Republika Srpska?
2 A. No.
3 Q. Did you ever hear of any of your fellow officers on the
4 Main Staff having asked for permission to become members of the
5 Army of Republika Srpska from anyone in the VJ?
6 A. In May and June 1992, I had an occasion to socialise with a large
7 number of officers, active-duty JNA officers, who remained in the
8 Army of Republika Srpska.
9 As far as I remember, none of them had requested any permission
10 from anyone. It was sufficient for us to hear an announcement by the
11 Presidency of the SFRY, or the FRY - I don't know how it was called at
12 the time - on TV, stating that the officers who were born in
13 Bosnia-Herzegovina should remain in the Army of Republika Srpska.
14 Q. Later on, the officers who were sent pursuant to Article 271, do
15 you know whether they received permission from their superior officers in
16 the VJ to join the Army of Republika Srpska?
17 A. I don't remember the exact date or the period when the JNA, in
18 the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, changed its name into the
19 Yugoslav Army. But I do know quite a few officers who were born in
20 Bosnia and Herzegovina and were serving in the garrisons in the territory
21 of the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia, i.e., Serbia
22 of them wished to join the Army of Republika Srpska from the very
23 beginning. However, they didn't know how to do that, because they didn't
24 want to leave their units as deserters which would result in their
25 superior officers issuing a decision on the termination of their service.
1 They, rather, sought approval from the officer in charge to join the
2 Army of Republika Srpska.
3 These officers, in 1992, up until the establishment of the
4 30th Personnel Centre, were sent, pursuant to Article 271 of the
5 Law on the Yugoslav Army. When they reported to the officer in charge in
6 the Army of Republika Srpska, they were immediately appointed to their
7 establishment posts in the Army of Republika Srpska, corresponding to
8 their ranks and their qualifications.
9 Q. Thank you.
10 A. Can I just add one more sentence?
11 Most often, they went to their birth places to be assigned to the
12 units that were being formed in those garrisons.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 Mr. Malcic, did you ever receive a military ID issued by the
15 Yugoslav Army?
16 A. No. I used the military ID of the Yugoslav People's Army in
17 which the Military Post of the Main Staff of the VRS was written, and at
18 the beginning that was the only document that I had testifying to my
19 membership in the Army of Republika Srpska. Later on, I don't remember
20 exactly when that happened, I was issued an ID of the
21 Army of Republika Srpska, as was the case with many other of my fellow
23 Q. Whose personal ID did you have at the time?
24 A. I had an ID of Republika Srpska, a personal ID.
25 Q. Mr. Malcic, did you at one point acquire the citizenship of the
1 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia? And when was that?
2 A. I acquired the FRY citizenship when I retired and when my service
3 was terminated. That enabled me later to exercise certain monetary
4 rights, pursuant to the laws in force at the time, which I hadn't been
5 able to collect when I was an active serviceman. And I even didn't know
6 that I was entitled to such allowances and compensations until I retired.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: If I may just ask for a little bit of
9 I don't understand what you mean, Mr. Malcic, when you say you
10 used the military ID of the Yugoslav People's Army in which the
11 Military Post of the Main Staff of the VRS was written.
12 I thought that the -- well, that's -- is that not what you said?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's not what I said. Poor
14 interpretation. Poor interpretation.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Let's get it corrected.
16 What did you say?
17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Immediately in 1992 we did not
18 print military IDs of the Army of Republika Srpska because that was not
19 one of our priorities.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: I'm going to ask you to go please straight to the
21 question. Don't give me background information.
22 What did you say? What military ID did you use, and what was
23 written on it?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I had a military ID of the
25 Yugoslav People's Army, the JNA. And in that ID, we just wrote
1 "Military Post 7527 Sarajevo
2 Main Staff of the Army of Republika Srpska.
3 In the Army of Republika Srpska, I used that as proof of the fact
4 that I was an active-duty military officer.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: When was Military Post 7527 Sarajevo written on
6 this ID?
7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] When the establishment of the
8 Main Staff was made. Then every formation had its peacetime and war time
9 Military Post. On the basis of that establishment, I was assigned to the
10 military staff as assistant head of the personnel department in the
11 administration for personnel affairs.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: In short, it was written when you joined the VRS;
13 is that what you are saying?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
16 You may proceed.
17 [Defence counsel confer]
18 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation]
19 Q. Mr. Malcic, did anyone from the Army of Yugoslavia ask you to
20 appoint someone to a particular position in the Army of Republika Srpska?
21 A. No.
22 Q. Did anyone from the Army of Yugoslavia -- or, rather, do you know
23 whether anyone from the Army of Yugoslavia asked an officer to transfer
24 an officer within the Army of Republika Srpska from one post to another?
25 A. No. That was only for the officer in charge to decide, and no
1 one could interfere with that, not any other officer in the
2 Army of Republika Srpska, let alone outside the Army of Republika Srpska.
3 Q. Now I'm going to move on to my last set of questions, Mr. Malcic,
4 and that will conclude my examination-in-chief.
5 While you were in the Army of Republika Srpska, did you receive
6 your salary all the time, every month, from the
7 Federal Republic of Yugoslavia?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Do you remember when the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia imposed
10 sanctions on Republika Srpska in 1994? Do you remember whether that
11 affected your salary in any way?
12 A. When sanctions were imposed against Republika Srpska towards the
13 end of the summer of 1995 - isn't that right? - it was 1994, rather.
14 Then salaries were no longer paid to active duty military personnel
16 Q. Do you remember how long that went on?
17 A. That went on for five to six months, however.
18 Q. So what did you and your family live on in that period?
19 A. In that period, my family lived in Banja Luka. As soon as I told
20 my wife that there was no more salary, she went to the Red Cross. She
21 registered herself and our two daughters, stating that we no longer had a
22 permanent source of income. Then my family was put on this list for
23 receiving supplies from the Red Cross, like all refugees who fled from
24 the territory of the Federation to Banja Luka.
25 From the Red Cross, they received supplies, food supplies. Then
1 soap and detergents and a bit of clothing. And that's how they lived.
2 They received that every month, and that is how they lived from month to
3 month. That is to say, my family lived like all other refugees in this
4 state of war, and, therefore, they did not die of hunger. As far as I
5 know, no one starved at the time in Republika Srpska or in the Federal
6 Republic of Yugoslavia
7 made an effort to provide people with these supplies so that they could
9 Q. Just a moment, please.
10 Do you know whether any officer of the Army of Republika Srpska,
11 in that period of time, when you did not receive salaries, leave the
12 Army of Republika Srpska?
13 A. As far as I know, not a single officer left when salaries were no
14 longer being paid out. They did not leave the Army of Republika Srpska.
15 That gave us even more moral strength to persevere in carrying out our
16 duties and to prove to the one who imposed sanctions on us that we do
17 have an alternative response and that we can survive.
18 Q. Thank you, Mr. Malcic.
19 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I have concluded my
20 examination-in-chief of this witness.
21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
22 Mr. Saxon.
23 MR. SAXON: Your Honours, I note the time and that normally we
24 would have about 55 minutes more for this session. I would ask
25 permission to adjourn until 2.15 tomorrow to start my cross-examination.
1 There are several translations that the Prosecution is waiting for. They
2 are coming in as we speak. The last one or two may not arrive until
3 tomorrow morning, and they will possibly affect how I conduct this
5 So I would -- I -- I very much believe, Your Honour, that if I
6 start tomorrow at 2.15, I will also finish the cross-examination
7 tomorrow, to leave Thursday for re-direct and any Judges' questions.
8 So that would be my request, Your Honour, if that would be
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: And you put your hand on the big book?
11 MR. SAXON: I do, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
13 Okay. We'll then take an adjournment.
14 Unfortunately, Mr. Malcic, we are not in a position to begin with
15 your cross-examination. I have got to remind you once again that you may
16 not discuss the case with anybody and especially not with your lawyers.
17 You will come back tomorrow at quarter past 2.00 in the afternoon in the
18 same courtroom. Okay?
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well.
20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Court adjourned until tomorrow, quarter past 2.00,
21 in Courtroom II.
22 [The witness stands down]
23 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.05 p.m.
24 to be reconvened on Wednesday, the 24th day of
25 March, 2010, at 2.15 p.m.