Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 12231

 1                           Friday, 25 June 2010

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused entered court]

 4                           [The witness takes the stand]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning to everybody in and around the

 7     courtroom.

 8             Mr. Registrar, will you please call the case.

 9             THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning to

10     everyone in and around the courtroom.  This is case number IT-04-81-T,

11     the Prosecutor versus Momcilo Perisic.  Thank you.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

13             Could we have appearances for the day, please, starting with the

14     Prosecution.

15             MR. THOMAS:  Good morning, Your Honours.  Good morning to

16     everyone in and around the courtroom.  Carmela Javier and Barney Thomas

17     for the Prosecution.

18             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

19             And for the Defence, Mr. Guy-Smith.

20             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Good morning to all.  Boris Zorko, Chad Mair,

21     Alex Fielding, Novak Lukic, and Gregor Guy-Smith appearing on behalf of

22     Mr. Perisic.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning, Mr. Vuksic, and just to remind you

24     that you're still bound by the --

25             THE WITNESS:  Good morning.

Page 12232

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Good morning, sir.  Just to remind you that you're

 2     still bound by the declaration to tell the truth, the whole truth, and

 3     nothing but the truth.

 4             Mr. Thomas.

 5             MR. THOMAS:  Sir, I know my learned friend has a left over matter

 6     relating to one document that he used yesterday which he would like to

 7     address first.

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Guy-Smith.

 9             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Yes, I would seek admission of the very last

10     document that we discussed yesterday which was 65 ter 1056D.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.  That's admitted into evidence.

12             May it please be given an exhibit number.

13             THE REGISTRAR:  Your Honours this document shall be assigned

14     Exhibit number D374.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

16             MR. GUY-SMITH:  And with that matter taken care of, I reiterate

17     what I said at the conclusion of yesterday's proceedings which is thank

18     you very much, Mr. Vuksic, and I turn the witness over to Mr. Thomas.

19             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

20                           WITNESS:  DRAGAN VUKSIC [Resumed]

21                           [Witness answered through interpreter]

22                           Cross-examination by Mr. Thomas:

23        Q.   Mr. Vuksic, good morning.  My name is Barney Thomas.  I'm a

24     lawyer with the Prosecution.  I have the opportunity now, sir, to ask you

25     some questions arising out of the testimony that you have given over the

Page 12233

 1     last few days.  I do not have many questions for you and many of them

 2     will seem very straightforward questions to you, I am sure.  Can I please

 3     ask you, just as you have heard from others this week, to listen very

 4     carefully to my question.  If you don't understand any aspect of my

 5     question, please let me know and I will explain it for you.  And of

 6     course, please only answer the question that has been put to you.

 7             Do you understand me, sir?

 8        A.   Good morning, Mr. Thomas.  I have understood you and I shall

 9     attempt to do as you said.

10        Q.   Thank you, sir.

11             MR. THOMAS:  I'd like to begin, please, Your Honours, with

12     looking once again at Exhibit D360, if we could have that on the screen,

13     please.

14        Q.   Now, Mr. Vuksic, you will -- sorry, I'll just wait for a version

15     in your language to appear on the screen.

16             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Yes, Mr. Guy-Smith.

17             MR. GUY-SMITH:  If it's of any assistance to Mr. Thomas, I don't

18     know if you want him to use the binder or not.  If you do, I'm happy to

19     tell you which tabs as it comes up.  If he satisfies you on the screen,

20     that's fine too, whatever you prefer.

21             MR. THOMAS:  I'm grateful, sir.  If we could have the tab number,

22     Mr. Vuksic has the benefit of having the document in front of him as

23     well.

24             MR. GUY-SMITH:  That would be tab number 11 in the yellow binder.

25             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Unfortunately, I do not have the

Page 12234

 1     binder.

 2             MR. THOMAS:

 3        Q.   Sir, are you able to view the document sufficiently on the screen

 4     in front of you?

 5        A.   Well, with lots of effort because it's a matter of distance

 6     because I cannot take off my glasses and the distance is not really

 7     suitable, so I cannot successfully read what I can see here.  Yes, it's a

 8     bit better now but I have to draw closer to the screen.

 9        Q.   Sir, I will try to deal with this another way.  If you feel that

10     you need the document in front of you as I ask you these questions,

11     please let me know.  But this document, sir, was a report on talks with

12     the Italian intelligence service, a document that you discussed

13     yesterday.  Do you recall discussing this document, sir?

14        A.   I do.

15        Q.   Okay.  We will see that it is date-stamped the 25th of December,

16     1993.  Do you see that?

17        A.   Yes, I can see that.

18        Q.   Okay.  Yesterday you made, sir, a very perceptive remark, if I

19     might say so, when you were discussing this document.  And I want to

20     remind you and others of that remark.

21             MR. THOMAS:  It appears, Your Honours, at page 12129, line 20 of

22     the transcript.

23        Q.   And what you said and to place this in some context for you, sir,

24     you were discussing the Italians' description of the war as a civilian

25     and religious one, and your comment was as follows:

Page 12235

 1             "What was going on in some parts of the former Yugoslavia was not

 2     just a civilian and religious war, but also an ethnic war.  At different

 3     points in time different aspects would gain the upper hand in this

 4     conflict, depending on the intensity of hatred in certain parts of the

 5     former country."

 6             Can I ask you, sir, first of all to explain what you mean by the

 7     comment "at different points in time different aspects would gain the

 8     upper hand in this conflict, depending on the intensity of hatred in

 9     certain parts of the ... country."

10        A.   I think that I mentioned both hatred and intolerance.  That means

11     that there was a varying degree and opposition, because I think hatred is

12     a stronger form of intolerance, that is to say mutual opposition.  And I

13     wanted to point out to the relativity of all of that.  I meant that

14     during certain periods or in certain areas one or the other had the upper

15     hand, one of these aspects of mutual intolerance and mutual opposition.

16             At the beginning of my testimony, we said that the newly formed

17     armies were initially multi-ethnic, if not absolutely then relatively at

18     least.  On the Serbian side, Serbian, under quotation marks, or in the

19     former JNA, you also had members of other ethnic communities at very high

20     levels who held generals' ranks.  In the Muslim army, when it was

21     organised militarily at first, it was joined by Colonel Jovo Divjak, who

22     is a Serbian from Belgrade.  So in that sense, I wanted to point out that

23     perhaps in a village there might have been marked religious intolerance.

24     However, in another village it could have been interpreted as ethnic

25     intolerance or animosity.  And in some other parts someone may have liked

Page 12236

 1     Yugoslavia more in the ideological and political sense, not as a

 2     socialist and communist country necessarily, and someone may have

 3     preferred that there would no longer be such a country, that it should be

 4     a multi-party and parliamentary country, that it should be with a

 5     different form of socio-political organisation.

 6        Q.   In terms of the comment you made yesterday, sir, how did one side

 7     or the other gain the upper hand depending on the intensity of hatred?

 8             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Sorry, Mr. -- didn't the witness say what gains

 9     the upper hand is either a religious or an ethnic feeling depending on --

10     not a side -- I'm not quite sure what you mean by "side."

11             MR. THOMAS:  I can rephrase that, sir.

12             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Okay.

13             MR. THOMAS:

14        Q.   The comment you made yesterday, sir, was that "at different

15     points in time different aspects would gain the upper hand in the

16     conflict."  What did you mean by "aspects"?

17        A.   I think that I have answered this question.  If a local leader in

18     a certain area, or let me not say village, emphasized that we are Serbs

19     and only Serbs or Muslims and only Muslims or Croats and only Croats and

20     that that was the reason why we opposed others from the same or a

21     different village, then I would say that that was the ethnic aspect that

22     was marked, the ethnic aspect of animosity or intolerance.  It is the

23     same with the religious aspect or with the civil aspect.

24        Q.   So was your comment effectively directed at -- in parts of the

25     country where it was religious hatred or religious intolerance, this

Page 12237

 1     would be the key aspect; and in other parts of the country, it might be

 2     ethnic hatred or ethnic intolerance.  Is that right?

 3             MR. GUY-SMITH:  I believe the gentleman has specifically answered

 4     the question to the contrary.  You've defined it in terms of parts of the

 5     country, and that factor is not one that he has mentioned.

 6             MR. THOMAS:  Well, I refer my learned friend to line 24 of

 7     page 12129, Your Honours.  That's exactly the words that he's used:

 8             "At different points in time different aspects would gain the

 9     upper hand in this conflict, depending on the intensity of hatred in

10     certain parts of the former country."

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I actually don't understand what Mr. Guy-Smith is

12     saying.

13             MR. GUY-SMITH:  I withdraw my objection at this time then to

14     proceed.

15             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

16             MR. THOMAS:

17        Q.   So that I understand you, Mr. Vuksic, are you saying that in a

18     certain location it might be religious hatred or religious intolerance

19     which pitted one side against the other, whereas in another location it

20     may have been ethnic hatred or ethnic intolerance which pitted one side

21     against the other?

22        A.   Mr. Thomas, as far as I remember, the entire comment I made

23     yesterday followed from the fact that I wanted to say or I wanted to add

24     that it was a religious, ethnic, and civil war.  I think that I have

25     already answered this question, but if you wish to know more about what I

Page 12238

 1     think about that, then we would have to start with Slovenia and end with

 2     Macedonia and comment on individual conflicts in certain parts of, for

 3     example, Croatia or Bosnia and Herzegovina.  I think this would be a good

 4     question for a seminar or a long conference, and I'm not sure what I

 5     could say about that here and now in this courtroom.

 6        Q.   All right.  Well, Mr. Vuksic, let me be a little blunter.  This

 7     is a question that is capable of a yes-or-no answer.  Let me just pause

 8     for a moment to stop my transcript.

 9             My question, sir, is:  Are you saying that in a certain location

10     it might be religious hatred or religious intolerance which pitted one

11     side against the other, whereas in another location it may have been

12     ethnic hatred or ethnic intolerance which pitted one side against the

13     other?  That is a question that can be answered with a yes or no, sir.

14        A.   Yes, with the addition that cannot be left out, namely, that I

15     said that one aspect, whether you prefer the ethnic one or the religious

16     one, was more marked.  But I never said that only one of these aspects

17     resulted in the conflicts which occurred in the territory of the former

18     Yugoslavia, because I know that it was not so.  And as I am bound to tell

19     the truth, then I stated so before the Court.

20        Q.   And we understand -- we understand the qualification that you

21     have given to that answer, sir.  That was clear.

22             Which aspect, as a matter of interest, weighed more heavily than

23     the other, the religious aspect or the ethnic aspect?

24             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Well, there are a number of difficulties with

25     that question:  It's vague as to time, it's vague as to place, and it

Page 12239

 1     calls for speculation.

 2             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

 3             MR. THOMAS:  Sir, in the previous answer Mr. Vuksic said:

 4             "I never said that only one of these aspects resulted in the

 5     conflicts which occurred in the territory of the former Yugoslavia

 6     because I know that it was not so ..."

 7             But immediately before that he said:

 8             "Yes, with the addition that cannot be left out, namely, that ...

 9     one aspect, whether you prefer the ethnic or the religious one, was more

10     marked."

11             And I'm simply asking him, sir, what did he mean by that comment,

12     which one was more marked or is he treating them together?

13             JUDGE MOLOTO:  But the problem, Mr. Thomas, is that what

14     Mr. Vuksic is saying is that some people would be driven by religious

15     beliefs, others by ethnic beliefs in promoting the war or promoting the

16     hatred.  And is -- any one of these may or may not be stronger than the

17     other at any given time or in any given area, without really being able

18     to put a finger on it and saying, I can tell you that in this area this

19     was the case.  I really think you're asking him a very difficult

20     question.

21             MR. THOMAS:  I understand, sir.  If that's what he's saying -- I

22     just wasn't sure if that's what his answer was.  If that's what he's

23     saying, I'm happy with that answer.

24             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Maybe he can confirm.

25             Is that what you are saying, Mr. Vuksic?  Did I interpret you

Page 12240

 1     correctly?

 2             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Mr. President, I wish to thank you.

 3     That is precisely what I wanted to say.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you.

 5             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honours.

 6        Q.   Now, the situation you have described, you described in reference

 7     to this letter that was date-stamped December 1993, but was it -- was it

 8     your view of the situation in your former country as it was -- or at the

 9     time, in December 1993?

10        A.   I cannot answer that question.

11        Q.   You've described -- you've described the war along religious and

12     ethnic grounds, and you've been describing that for us this morning.  Was

13     that your understanding of the conflict or the characteristics of the

14     conflict as at December 1993?  By then was that apparent to you?

15        A.   Once again, I cannot answer your question.

16        Q.   Can you tell me why you can't answer that, sir?

17        A.   Well, if I told you that, I would have to be critical of you and

18     I have no right to be so nor do I wish to criticise you.

19        Q.   I'm used to criticism, sir.  All I'm after is your answer to the

20     question.  Was this your view of the conflict as at December 1993?

21        A.   Mr. Thomas, if you wish to ask me this question or other

22     questions connected to that, we would have to go back to the beginning of

23     the Yugoslav crisis.  And once again, I would have to state my views in

24     many details and that would be very extensive, which I don't think is

25     relevant before this Court because I also mentioned civil war and civil

Page 12241

 1     war has not been referred to here.  Therefore, my opinion is perhaps more

 2     complex.  At the time, I was not in a position to say or write anything

 3     about that, I mean in December 1993; and I did have my own opinion.

 4        Q.   Let me ask you this, sir:  Was a tragic consequence of the war

 5     that by December 1993 crimes against civilians and atrocities against

 6     civilians were being committed by all warring parties?

 7        A.   If you would like me to be sincere, then I have to tell you that

 8     on the basis of what I know now -- in the territory of the former

 9     Yugoslavia, which I have called a theatre of absurd and a wonderland

10     where I said various strange plays were enacted, dramas and tragedies,

11     then I can say that I am convinced today that all the warring parties had

12     already committed war crimes.

13        Q.   And when did you come to the realisation, sir, that all sides had

14     committed crimes?

15             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Excuse me, that question has been asked and

16     answered:

17             "If you would like me to be sincere ..." at page 11, line 5,

18     "then I have to tell you that on the basis of what I know ...  that I can

19     say today" --

20             MR. THOMAS:  I'm sure he didn't --

21             MR. GUY-SMITH:  "Now, of what I know now."

22             MR. THOMAS:  Yes.

23             What I'm asking him, Your Honours, is when he came to that

24     realisation.  It would not have been today, obviously.

25             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Proceed with the answer -- with the question.

Page 12242

 1             MR. THOMAS:

 2        Q.   Sir, when did you come to the realisation that all sides had

 3     committed crimes in the conflict?

 4        A.   I cannot refer to a specific period because this is a very

 5     complex issue and problem.

 6             MR. THOMAS:  Thank you, Your Honours.  No further questions.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you, Mr. Thomas.

 8             Any re-examination, Mr. Guy-Smith?

 9             MR. GUY-SMITH:  No, Your Honour.

10                           [Trial Chamber confers]

11                           Questioned by the Court:

12             JUDGE DAVID:  General, given your experience as a liaison officer

13     with international organisations, including the United Nations, were you

14     aware that the Security Council in 1993, 16 April, passed a resolution,

15     reaffirming the order of International Court of Justice in order that

16     requested the Federal Republic of Yugoslavia to prevent the commission of

17     genocide in Bosnia-Herzegovina.  Were you aware of that resolution of the

18     Security Council of the United Nations in 1993?

19        A.   Judge David, I'm not a general, just a colonel.  I was aware of

20     that resolution.

21             JUDGE DAVID:  Given the -- your knowledge of that resolution, do

22     you know, in your experience, if any investigation as to the seriousness

23     of these allegations were carried on in your department or the

24     General Staff of the Yugoslav Army or any other organisation in your

25     government at the time?  I repeat the question.

Page 12243

 1             Were you aware that this allegation -- given the seriousness of

 2     these allegations, any investigation, inquiry, request, in order to

 3     verify these allegations has been carried on in your department, related

 4     departments?  As Judge Moloto, you got -- say yes, no, or I don't know.

 5        A.   I'm not aware of any such thing.

 6             JUDGE DAVID:  You're not aware that any investigation was carried

 7     on?

 8        A.   I don't know whether anything of the kind happened or not.  In

 9     other words, I don't know anything about that.

10             JUDGE DAVID:  In your testimony you have said something about the

11     principle of relativity and referred to Einstein, saying that anything is

12     relative.  Was your view at the time that these allegations of genocide

13     were also part of a relative situation depending on arrangements that you

14     explained so well, if you had agreed with something you said in new

15     declarations you may give or not importance to these allegations.

16             I repeat the question:  Have you dismissed yourself these

17     allegations because you thought they were not important or relative in

18     your experience?  You told me you were aware of these resolutions.  My

19     question is:  Did you dismiss these allegations because they were of a

20     relative nature?  Yes, no, or I don't know.  Or you could make some

21     comments along that.

22        A.   Mr. David, the only thing I could say or offer by way of comment

23     in view of the theory of relativity would be the fact that even then in

24     the territory of Yugoslavia, which I called country of wonders and the

25     theatre of absurd, everything was very, very, very relative.  And if you

Page 12244

 1     wish my opinion with this regard, I am glad to provide it; but I also

 2     feel that I should actually tell you that the issue could easily be

 3     discussed at a seminar dedicated to it or a symposium dedicated to this

 4     issue.

 5             JUDGE DAVID:  I understand that any matters could be studied at a

 6     seminar.  A seminar could be even focused on any topic, but my question

 7     is:  Given the seriousness of these allegations, given the absence of

 8     any -- that you don't know of any investigations carried on, was your

 9     view that these allegations merit no investigation?  As a matter of fact,

10     there was a resolution in relation to genocide, alleged genocide in the

11     former territory of Bosnia-Herzegovina.

12        A.   I was absolutely aware of the steps and the significance of the

13     steps that were undertaken by the United Nations when they issued the

14     resolution that you mentioned and by establishing the Tribunal for crimes

15     committed in the territory of the former Yugoslavia.  I had other

16     information about that.  I can say that I was even better informed than

17     others.  I never changed my opinion that I still uphold, and you asked me

18     about your opinion.  And you also asked me whether I undertook any steps

19     in my capacity.  Of course I didn't because I was head of an OG, then

20     head of a group that had a peace time mission and whose only task was to

21     implement peace time activities, irrespective of who their initiator was,

22     be it the United Nations or anybody else.  Neither me nor my subordinates

23     were ever in a position to do something of the kind that you mentioned.

24             JUDGE DAVID:  Thank you.  An additional question:  You said

25     yesterday that in relation to a meeting in which General Perisic,

Page 12245

 1     yourself, a French delegate, and so on participated, the French

 2     representative said:  I don't want to meet General Mladic because he's

 3     allegedly guilty of war crimes.  Were you aware at the time that this was

 4     the case?

 5        A.   Mr. David, at the time General Mladic was already indicted for

 6     war crimes; therefore, it was no longer important whether I was aware of

 7     that or not.  And I would like to thank you for your question because

 8     such questions still cause me pain, to me as a human being who appears in

 9     this courtroom.  I would very much like to discuss the issue with

10     relevant collocutors, but I have not come across many of them, on the

11     contrary.  And that's why I would like to remind you of what I already

12     said, and now you have jogged my memory.  And that is the relativity of

13     everything that was going on in the territory of the former Yugoslavia,

14     especially when it came to other problems and dealing with some other

15     problems.

16             Yesterday I said that President Chirac had sent his Special

17     Envoy, the first general -- first General Laprelle and then General Douin

18     and what he had in mind was the interest for the French pilots to be set

19     free.  That was his first year in office, and no sooner was he elected he

20     was faced with the demonstrations staged by peasants who took to the

21     streets with their tractors and other equipment.  And he thought that

22     he -- it was his duty to answer some questions before the French general

23     public.  And he co-signed the decision to set up the international

24     Tribunal.

25             Does that shed some light on how decisions were made in the

Page 12246

 1     international circles?  Having said that, I'm not questioning any of the

 2     decisions that Mr. Chirac made.  Shall I continue?  Do you have any

 3     interest in hearing what else I have to say?  It seems that you approve

 4     of everything I've said so far, so I'm willing to continue.

 5             JUDGE DAVID:  Thank you.  I don't expect you to elaborate more.

 6     Thank you very much for your answers.

 7             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Any questions arising from the questions by the

 8     Bench?  Mr. Guy-Smith.

 9             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Yes, Your Honour.

10                           Further examination by Mr. Guy-Smith:

11        Q.   Mr. Vuksic, with regard to the resolution that Judge David was

12     just discussing with you, which I believe was Resolution 819, a date was

13     mentioned which is April 1993.  Could you please tell us, who was the

14     Chief of Staff in April of 1993?

15        A.   In April 1993, the Chief of General Staff of the Army of

16     Yugoslavia was Colonel-General Zivota Panic.

17             MR. GUY-SMITH:  And if I could have but a moment.

18                           [Defence counsel confer]

19             MR. GUY-SMITH:

20        Q.   Thank you very much, Mr. Vuksic.

21             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Thomas.

22             MR. THOMAS:  No.  Thank you, Your Honours.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Vuksic, thank you so much for taking the time

24     to come and testify at the Tribunal.  This brings us to the end of your

25     testimony.  We are grateful that you made the contribution that you made

Page 12247

 1     to the work of the Tribunal.  You are now excused and you may stand down.

 2     Please travel well back home.

 3             THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. President.

 4             JUDGE MOLOTO:  You may stand down.

 5                           [The witness withdrew]

 6             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Mr. Guy-Smith.

 7             MR. GUY-SMITH:  That concludes the witnesses that we have for

 8     this week.  I believe that we still are on track, as we indicated before,

 9     for the next witness to appear on Monday, that would be the 5th of July,

10     which is what we discussed yesterday.

11             JUDGE MOLOTO:  I do remember, Mr. Guy-Smith.  I thought,

12     Mr. Lukic, there was something you were going to ascertain --

13             MR. GUY-SMITH:  That's right.

14             JUDGE MOLOTO:  -- last night and come back to us with it.  I'm

15     not quite sure what it was.

16             MR. GUY-SMITH:  Well, I think there were two things -- well, I

17     think there was one thing and there was also another development.  The

18     question was whether or not we were going to be able to get somebody here

19     earlier so that we would be able to be in a position to have any

20     witnesses for next week.  We are not in that position.  We're not able to

21     do that.  So the date of the 5th will remain the date that we are in a

22     position to call the next witness.

23             JUDGE MOLOTO:  And what was the other development?

24             MR. GUY-SMITH:  The other matter is a matter that should be dealt

25     with in private session, I believe.

Page 12248

 1             JUDGE MOLOTO:  May the chamber please move into private session.

 2                           [Private session]

 3   (redacted)

 4   (redacted)

 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7   (redacted)

 8   (redacted)

 9   (redacted)

10   (redacted)

11   (redacted)

12   (redacted)

13   (redacted)

14   (redacted)

15   (redacted)

16   (redacted)

17   (redacted)

18   (redacted)

19   (redacted)

20   (redacted)

21   (redacted)

22   (redacted)

23   (redacted)

24   (redacted)

25   (redacted)

Page 12249











11   Page 12249 redacted. Private session.















Page 12250

 1   (redacted)

 2   (redacted)

 3                           [Open session]

 4             THE REGISTRAR:  We're back to open session, Your Honours.

 5             JUDGE MOLOTO:  Thank you so much.

 6             We stand adjourned to Monday, the 5th of July.  I think we have a

 7     time and court, so -- yes, Courtroom II, 9.00 in the morning.

 8             Court adjourned.

 9                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 9.48 a.m.,

10                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 5th day of

11                           July, 2010, at 9.00 a.m.