Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 17189

 1                          Wednesday, 31 October 2007

 2                          [Open session]

 3                          [The accused entered court]

 4                          --- Upon commencing at 9.06 a.m.

 5            JUDGE AGIUS:  Good morning to you, Madam Registrar.  Could you

 6    kindly call the case, please.

 7            THE REGISTRAR:  Good morning, Your Honours.  This is the case

 8    number IT-05-88-T, the Prosecutor versus Vujadin Popovic et al.

 9            JUDGE AGIUS:  Thank you.  For the record all the accused are here,

10    and I think we are full house -- no, I don't see Mr. Bourgon.  Okay.

11            And Prosecution is like yesterday, Mr. McCloskey and

12    Ms. Janisiewicz.  Thank you.

13            Any preliminaries?  None.  So let's bring the -- and let's go into

14    closed session.

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16                          [Open session]

17            JUDGE AGIUS:  We are now.

18            MR. HAYNES:  I'm rising at this point to try and clear up,

19    clarify, and advance what is becoming a growing problem in the case with

20    three of the most important documents, P377, P378, and P379.  That's the

21    Zvornik Brigade duty officer's workbook as we now call it for the July

22    period.  What we call the war diary, that's P378; and the workbook for the

23    later period running into September, that's P379.  We are fast approaching

24    the anniversary of Mr. Thayer's undertaking to have those documents

25    translated.  I think I can probably give you the date.  It was early

Page 17240

 1    December when we were promised by the Prosecution that those documents

 2    would be translated, and we still don't have them.  There's an

 3    illogicality in their exhibit status at the moment.  P377 is marked for

 4    identification.  P378, which is 152 pages in B/C/S but only five of which

 5    are translated into English, has been exhibited.  And P379, which is

 6    completely untranslated I think, is marked for identification.

 7            My submission is that P378 should not be exhibited pursuant to

 8    your response to Mr. Thayer in December of last year, it should be marked

 9    for identification purposes only, but I also invite the Prosecution to

10    give us an update on where we're going with this.  A year ago we asked for

11    I think something like 80 pages of those documents to be translated, and

12    upon the Prosecution's undertaking we withdrew those requests for

13    translation because the Prosecution told us they would have the whole

14    document translated.  And now we're in prejudiced position, and during the

15    course of my cross-examination I had to bite my tongue not to react to the

16    criticism of me for using untranslated documents, because I was using

17    documents that the Prosecution had undertaken to have translated.

18            And we're getting towards the end of the Prosecution case and

19    these are three of the most important documents in the case and they are

20    still, in relation to two of them, marked for identification; and in

21    relation to the third one should be marked for identification.

22            So I get that off my chest now, and I invite the Prosecution to

23    state now on the record and in open session when we can expect to have

24    those documents translated.

25            JUDGE AGIUS:  If I see well, because there is -- yeah, Mr. Thayer

Page 17241

 1    is here but I can't see him.

 2            Mr. Thayer or Mr. McCloskey, who's going to handle this?  I'm

 3    assuming that Mr. Thayer is busy preparing for the celebration of the

 4    anniversary.

 5            MR. McCLOSKEY:  You may be getting tired of hearing from me, I'm

 6    certainly tired of talking, but we have had the key parts of this

 7    translated.  There's a few parts that Mr. Haynes is interested in one or

 8    two lines in various dates in September and October that we've now put in.

 9    We are trying to convince CLSS and our own resources to continue the

10    translation of hundreds of pages that no one can really point to specific

11    relevance to, aside from that they're fascinating documents and they're

12    full of facts and details, and I understand the Defence wants them

13    translated.  I will check where we are on that and see.  But as you know,

14    this institution, as it's always been, is buried in this kind of work and

15    it's hard for even us to get this done.

16            JUDGE AGIUS:  Do I take it that the pages that need to be

17    translated have been definitely identified by you and others, Mr. Haynes?

18            MR. HAYNES:  No, they haven't, because we had this debate a year

19    ago, as I say.  We had 80 pages pending translation.  I can probably go

20    back to that list and give them to the Prosecution and say these are the

21    80 pages we're interested in.  But we were stopped in our tracks by the

22    undertaking that the Prosecution would have the whole document translated,

23    and, you know --

24            JUDGE AGIUS:  Yes, yes.  Okay.  Thank you, Mr. Haynes.

25            Mr. Thayer.  Yes, I can now see you.

Page 17242

 1            MR. THAYER:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  Good afternoon,

 2    everyone.

 3            JUDGE AGIUS:  Good afternoon.

 4            MR. THAYER:  The last I had checked on that issue, and I think I

 5    provided an oral update at the time, was that we were -- and I was told

 6    very close to having the entire document completely translated.  That's

 7    where I thought it was some months ago.  I have not followed up since

 8    then, nor have I had any requests from anybody as to the progress or with

 9    respect to any particular portions of the document.  So frankly it hasn't

10    been something that's been brought to my attention as a need from any

11    party.  We are checking right now to find out exactly where it is, but my

12    understanding was that the entire document was very close to being

13    translated.  We had in fact worked, as I understood it, with Mr. Haynes

14    and his team because there had been other portions translated by CLSS

15    independently of what we were doing from our team, and we, I thought, had

16    integrated those translations so there wouldn't be a duplication of work.

17    We're following it up, but again my understanding was that we were very

18    close to completing the entire translation, and that was some time ago.

19            JUDGE AGIUS:  Okay.  Please, our understanding of this was or has

20    been that there was an ongoing undertaking that it will be concluded

21    without further delay, and my understanding also on Mr. Haynes's position

22    is that he's been raising this matter periodically, voicing his concern

23    that this job had not yet been completed.  So tomorrow morning, please,

24    Mr. McCloskey or Mr. Thayer, come back to us with a definitive report on

25    where we stand unless you are in a position to update us even today.

Page 17243

 1            MR. McCLOSKEY:  I will do that.  We share Mr. Haynes's concern,

 2    and so we're together on this, that's not a problem, and I understand

 3    frustrations.  Though, I do want to update you.  We do have a product that

 4    we will be providing you based on -- and partially a request of

 5    Mr. Bourgon, where we have a -- the English translation on one side and

 6    the B/C/S on the other and where the English translation is trying to

 7    mirror the B/C/S so that when you see the translation you can actually see

 8    where it's coming from.  And we've also identified from our handwriting

 9    experts and the evidence that's come in who's written down the various

10    parts of this book and so that you will see it.  This is done for the key

11    dates from the 12th through about the 23rd.  I have asked my colleagues to

12    look into that, to double-check the -- our work, the translations, and

13    offer any other pages they want to have translated.  So you can see this

14    in this form, it really makes a difference.  I've heard some word back,

15    mostly supportive.  So if there's anything else anyone has to they want us

16    to put into this exhibit, let us know and we'll get that together, but

17    it's not meant to replace the big translation for everything.

18            JUDGE AGIUS:  That still constitutes good news, and I thank you

19    for that, Mr. McCloskey.

20            Shall we -- are we ready for the next witness?

21            MR. McCLOSKEY:  I believe -- and I think we're still in closed

22    session.

23            JUDGE AGIUS:  No, no, we are in open session and we have been for

24    the past 20 minutes.

25            MR. McCLOSKEY:  I think we should be in closed session from what I

Page 17244

 1    gather.

 2            JUDGE AGIUS:  Private session.  I don't think we need to move --

 3    whatever the difference.  Closed session.  Let's go into closed session.

 4                          [Closed session]

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24                          [Open session]

25            MS. CONDON:  Today is my last appearance as co-counsel on behalf

Page 17271

 1    of Mr. Popovic.  I would like to thank the Trial Chamber for the courtesy

 2    that you've showed me when I've appeared before you.  I would like to

 3    thank the court staff for their assistance and generally for the

 4    experience that I've had while I've been here and I thank the

 5    Trial Chamber.

 6            JUDGE AGIUS:  Thank you, Ms. Condon.  Actually, when I was at home

 7    yesterday going through some material, well I decided to check my e-mail

 8    again which I do every hour or so and only to come across advance

 9    information that this was taking place.  And to be honest with you, it

10    came to -- as a surprise to all of us.  Usually this is not a common

11    occurrence, but it has happened and that has happened in the past.  And

12    when it happened, usually I always took it upon myself to say a few words

13    which I'm going to do as well.

14            We had grown accustomed to your presence here and your

15    intervention, your active intervention in the case, and of course we will

16    miss you, not just us but I think everyone else who has been happy finding

17    himself or herself happy to work with you.  I think as time goes by you

18    will be remembered here, you will be remembered for a few things, at least

19    speaking for myself.  You will be remembered for the way you can greet the

20    Trial Chamber with a smile even when you are absolutely angry with some of

21    our decisions and you can still put on a smile and that is a very useful

22    asset for any lawyer that looks ahead to a colourful and good career.

23            You will also be remembered for having put us professional Judges

24    in inverted commas which made us muse for quite some time whether we were

25    supposed to be in a niche or whether it was a way of describing it, but

Page 17272

 1    anyway we remember that instance with some -- with a smile, with a smile.

 2    And we will also remember you because in our hearts we all know that your

 3    presence here for over a year, if it has shown anything, it has shown that

 4    you have got a great career ahead of you and while you are away pursuing

 5    your next stage in your career, we will be remembering you and we will be

 6    thinking of you.  And we have no doubt in our mind that we will -- not for

 7    a moment, that a great road lies ahead and that you will have a great

 8    career, Ms. Condon.

 9            You will also be remembered for the change in your face when I -

10    and I apologise once more - addressed you as Ms. Cubbon instead of

11    Ms. Condon.  These are events that are usually not -- one doesn't cancel

12    them by means of a rubber, they stick in the mind.  And brings me to an

13    end.  I speak on behalf of my colleagues but also my staff, including

14    John Cubbon.  I wish you all the best in your career and I'm sure that our

15    wish will be respected by destiny.

16            MS. CONDON:  Thank you for those comments, Your Honour, they're

17    very kind.

18            JUDGE AGIUS:  I think the position being what it is, I think we

19    need to meet tomorrow morning at 9.00 just the same, and then we take it

20    up from there.  All right.

21                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.49 p.m.,

22                          to be reconvened on Thursday, the 1st day of

23                          November, 2007, at 9.00 a.m.

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