1 Monday, 20 October 2008
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [the accused Miletic not present]
5 -- Upon commencing at 9.04 a.m.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Good morning, everybody. Good morning, to you
7 Madam Registrar. Could you call the case, please.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case
9 IT-05-88-T, The Prosecutor versus Vujadin Popovic, et al.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you, ma'am. For the record, you would
11 have noticed that Judge Prost is not with us this morning, but she will
12 join us later on for the last session if I'm not wrong. So we are
13 sitting pursuant to Rule 15 Bis for the moment. I also notice the
14 absence of General Miletic. Madam Fauveau is there, an explanation for
15 that, and can we proceed with the sitting?
16 MS. FAUVEAU: [Interpretation] Your Honour, we've requested -- my
17 client asked the detention unit to tell the Trial Chamber that we can
18 proceed without his presence because his family is here. I don't know
19 why this was not done last Friday, but I'm sure that today you will get
20 the -- the accord of my client to proceed without his presence.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. In other words, he has confirmed to you that
22 he will be signing a waiver?
23 MS. FAUVEAU: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. For the record, Prosecution,
25 today is Mr. McCloskey and Mr. Thayer. Defence teams, I notice the
1 absence of Mr. Haynes only.
2 All right. I understand that you've got some preliminaries, Mr.
3 Lazarevic? Please, go ahead.
4 MR. LAZAREVIC: Good morning, Your Honour. Good morning,
5 everyone. Yes, Your Honour, it's right. We do have one preliminary. It
6 has to do without 65 ter list. We wanted to ask for the Trial Chamber to
7 grant us addition of certain number of documents to our 65 ter list. My
8 colleagues from the Prosecution are already informed. I spoke with
9 Mr. Thayer yesterday, and he basically does not object to the admission
10 of these documents. And just for the record, I would like to read out
11 the number of these documents.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: The admission of or inclusion of these documents?
13 MR. LAZAREVIC: To be included on our list of 65 ter. Yes.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. I don't think we need necessarily to know the
16 details of these documents. Mr. Thayer, do you confirm what Mr.
17 Lazarevic has just stated?
18 MR. THAYER: Good morning, Mr. President. Yes, I do.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. So you have permission to include these
20 documents in the 65 ter list. Whether you make use of them or not is
21 your own business. All right. You have a witness this morning? Do you
22 have any other preliminaries, any one of you?
23 MR. LAZAREVIC: No, nothing other than this one.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. So we can start. Mr. Trisic. Could you
25 bring in the witness, please. Later on after the first break, there are
1 two minor decisions that we will give orally relating to some matters
2 raised by the Borovcanin Defence team.
3 Good morning to you, Mr. Trisic.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Good morning.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, and welcome to this Tribunal. You have been
6 summoned as Defence witness by accused Borovcanin. I do not anticipate
7 your testimony to finish today, but we'll try to do our best. Before you
8 start giving evidence, our rules require that you make a solemn
9 declaration to the effect that you will be testifying the truth. The
10 text of this solemn declaration is going to be handed to you now. Please
11 read it out aloud, and that will be your solemn undertaking with us.
12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
13 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. Please make yourself
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Who will be examining the witness? Mr. Lazarevic.
18 Please introduce yourself to the witness, and you can then proceed.
19 MR. LAZAREVIC: By all means, Your Honour.
20 WITNESS: DRAGOSLAV TRISIC
21 [Witness answered through interpreter]
22 Examination by Mr. Lazarevic:
23 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning, Mr. Trisic. Of course, we have
24 already had the opportunity to meet, but for the purposes of the
25 transcript, I will introduce myself. I'm Aleksandar Lazarevic, and I
1 represent Mr. Borovcanin before this Tribunal. Since we speak the same
2 language, I would just like to ask you to wait for me to finish my
3 question before you begin answering your questions so that we do not
4 overlap and so that the interpreters could do their job properly.
5 For the transcript, can you please tell me your first and last
7 A. Dragoslav Trisic.
8 Q. Can you please tell me where and when you were born?
9 A. I was born on the 5th of January, 1947, in Bratunac.
10 Q. Can you please tell me where you live now?
11 A. I'm still living in Bratunac.
12 Q. Can you please tell us something about your schooling?
13 A. I was born in Bratunac. I spent my whole career there. I
14 completed elementary school in Bratunac, and after that I completed
15 secondary and high technical school in Tuzla. After that, I completed
16 the higher teacher training college, also in Tuzla.
17 Q. Very well. Can you please answer one more question, and then we
18 will deal with your work history in more detail.
19 Did you serve your military term of duty in the Yugoslavia
20 People's Army, and if so, when?
21 A. Yes. I served my military term of duty in the former JNA from
22 1971 to 1972, and I served in Zadar in the non-commissioned officer's
24 Q. Very well. Can you tell me something about this non-commissioned
25 officer's school? What kind of military term of duty is that exactly?
1 A. Well, this is a school where conscripts are trained to be reserve
2 officers, non-commissioned officers.
3 Q. Very well. Can you please tell me now, after you completed your
4 military term of duty and after you completed the non-commissioned
5 officer's school, what did you do then? Where did you get your first job
6 and how your career proceeded after that.
7 A. After I served in the JNA, I worked in a school as a teacher.
8 Actually, before I served in the JNA, I worked in school as a teacher.
9 Then after I completed my military term of duty, again, I returned to the
10 school, and I worked there from 1972, late 1972 until summer 1973.
11 Q. Very well. After summer 1973, what happened with you work-wise
13 A. I was appointed chief of the Territorial Defence staff of the
14 municipality of Bratunac
16 Q. Very well. In the meantime, did you have any other jobs?
17 A. Yes. During a certain period from 1981 to 1984, I was deputy
18 chairman of the executive board of the municipality of Bratunac
19 three years at this post. After that, I returned to the TO staff.
20 Q. Can you please tell me what your post was at the TO staff once
21 you came back?
22 A. Well, this was a little bit different. By establishment instead
23 of the Chief of Staff, I was appointed as the commander of the TO staff.
24 Q. Very well. At one point did you retire, and if so, when was
1 A. Yes. I retired on the 1st of May, 1991. This was a period when
2 nationalist parties came to power; and in the division of departments
3 within the municipality, since I was not affiliated with any party, I was
4 not suitable for any duties, and I was given the opportunity or it was
5 suggested to me to retire pursuant to the state administration law,
6 according to which after 25 years of work there is the option that a
7 person can retire. At that time, I had 25 years of -- and 3 months of
8 work, and I retired on the 1st of May, 1991.
9 Q. All right. I would just like now to ask you about this time you
10 spent as the commander of the TO in Bratunac. At the time, did you have
11 any assistance, and if so, can you please tell us who they were?
12 A. By establishment, I had four assistants: Assistant for training
13 and operations, the assistant of the commander for organisation and
14 mobilisation, commander -- assistant of the commander for security and
15 intelligence and security, and I also had an assistant for logistics.
16 Q. For the transcript to be entirely clear, we are talking about the
17 time before war broke out, so this is a period during the Socialist
18 Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina and the Socialist Federal Republic
20 A. Yes. That is correct.
21 Q. And can you please tell me now whether at any point you were
22 mobilised in 1992?
23 A. Yes. I was mobilised in April 1992.
24 Q. Can you please tell me, who were you mobilised by?
25 A. I was mobilised by the Ministry of Defence of the Serbian
1 municipality of Bratunac. I received a summons from the ministry to
2 report to the war unit.
3 Q. Very well. Can you please tell me now, once you received this
4 summons, where were you assigned?
5 A. I was assigned as Chief of Staff of the Territorial Defence of
6 the municipality of Bratunac
7 Q. Very well. At the time, can you tell me who the commander of the
8 TO was in the municipality of Bratunac
9 Serbian municipality of Bratunac
10 A. Yes. The commander was Captain Momir Nikolic.
11 Q. Very well. Now, I would like to look at a couple of documents
12 that are important to understand this question. Before I put the
13 questions to you and before you look at the documents, I would like to
14 give you this binder where the documents are chronologically arranged in
15 the order that the questions will be put. This binder has already been
16 shown to my colleagues from the Defence and the Prosecution, so I would
17 like to go through it now.
18 A. Very well.
19 Q. The first document that I would like us to look at is the law on
20 changes and amendments of the Law of National Defence Official Gazette
21 6/92, and this is document 4D177, and it's marked number 1 in your pile.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Can you please wait for this to appear on e-court so that
24 everybody could look at this document that we are discussing.
25 Can you look now on the right-hand side. This is the law on
1 changes and amendments. Can you look at Article 1.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. It states that the words "Territorial Defence and the armed
4 forces" shall be replaced by the words "army." According to your
5 understanding, is this document a step towards the formation of the Army
6 of Republika Srpska and the abolishment of the hitherto units of the
7 Territorial Defence?
8 A. Yes. Evidently, the organisational and establishment structure
9 was beginning to be changed, and as it states here, the Territorial
10 Defence and the armed forces is being replaced by the Army of Republika
11 Srpska, as it states here.
12 Q. Very well. The next document is in tab marked number 2 in your
13 binder. That is 4D526 in e-court, and this is a decision on the
14 establishment of the Army of Republika Srpska of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and
15 it bears the same date, the 12th of May, 1992. Do you have that in front
16 of you?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Very well. Can we look at Article 2 of this decision where it
19 says that the units and staffs of the Territorial Defence are being
20 renamed as the command and units of the army whose organisation and
21 establishment will be established by the president of the republic. And
22 since this is a decision of the same date as the previous document, was
23 that a -- one more step towards the establishment of the Army of
24 Republika Srpska and the disappearance of the hitherto units of the TO?
25 A. Yes. As I said, the TO staffs were being abolished or they were
1 being renamed as the commands of the army units, and the president of the
2 republic would determine how these units of the Army of Republika Srpska
3 would be organised and established. This is what it states in Article 2.
4 Q. Very well. Can you please tell me if the Bratunac Brigade was
5 formed immediately after the TO units were made part of the system of the
6 army of the republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina
7 where the TO units from the Bratunac territory were made a part of?
8 A. No. From the start of the mobilisation, the TO in Bratunac was
9 organised according to the old formation, into the Territorial Defence of
10 the municipality of Bratunac
11 and this decision on the establishment of the Army of Republika Srpska,
12 and once the organisational and establishment structure of the units was
13 announced, we were part of the 5th Battalion in the composition of the
14 Birac Brigade, which was headquartered at Sekovici.
15 Q. Very well. Now, once the Birac Brigade was formed or its 5th
16 Battalion, as you said, were you appointed to some post in it?
17 A. The 5th Battalion of the Birac Brigade was formed in late May
18 1992. I didn't have any significant function there since the battalion
19 itself was a smaller unit than the existing TO. I carried out the tasks
20 as deputy commander of the battalion who -- and the commander was
21 actually Momir Nikolic.
22 Q. Very well. Can you please tell me whether at any point you
23 performed any intelligence- or security-related tasks?
24 A. Yes. I did carry out such assignments, but this was in September
25 1992 when Colonel Sibinic assumed the post of the battalion commander,
1 and I performed these duties for two months in September and October
3 Q. Very well, now I would like to look at the next document. This
4 is document in your tab 3, and it's a document 3DP274. The name of the
5 document is the "wartime road or path of the Bratunac Brigade." Let us
6 first look at page 1 of this document.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. The first page and the first sentence, which is immediately
9 underneath the title "The Formation of the Bratunac Brigade" where it
10 says that the Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade was formed on the 14th of
11 November, 1992.
12 Can you please tell me according to your recollection whether
13 this fact is correct.
14 A. Yes, it is correct. The brigade was formed on the 14th of
15 November, 1992.
16 Q. Very well. And could we please turn to the next page. It is in
17 e-court, page number 2 in English, and could you please look towards the
18 top of the page under bullet point 8. It says: The idea of forming the
19 Drina Corps of -- the Drina Corps was the only establishment unit of the
20 Army of Republika Srpska; and in addition to that, it says: In addition
21 to this unit, there were also Territorial Defence forces organised in
22 five detachments, and so on and so forth. Let me not go through the
23 whole document.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Tell me, please. These detachments of the Territorial Defence
1 which are mentioned in this bullet point, whose command were they under?
2 A. They were under the command of -- the command of the 5th
4 Q. Very well. And can we now move to page 6 in the same document,
5 and in English it would be page 8, please.
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Very well. And you will see here that in the upper part of this
8 page -- now, it's good. It says here -- could you please find it. The
9 sentence begins with the following words: "Pursuant to an order of 18
10 April 1993 from the Main Staff of the VRS." Do you see that part?
11 A. Yes, I do.
12 Q. It says here that the TG-1 was formed from the following:
13 Skelani independent battalion, and a few more units are mentioned
14 thereafter. Tell me, please, do you remember that in April 1993 there
15 was indeed a TG-1 that had been formed in the area?
16 A. Yes, I remember that very well.
17 Q. Who was the commander of that tactical group, please?
18 A. The commander of that tactical group was Colonel Vukota Vukovic.
19 Q. Very well. And tell me, please, when we are talking about this
20 tactical group TG-1, who was it subordinated to?
21 A. TG-1 was subordinated to the command of the Drina Corps.
22 Q. And when the units in TG-1 returned, who remained in the area
23 that TG-1 had been in control of?
24 A. The units of the Bratunac Brigade remained in the area; i.e., it
25 was the 3rd Battalion of the Bratunac Brigade that remained in the area.
1 Q. Thank you very much. We will no longer need this document.
2 Thank you. I would like us to move on to July 1995, and I would like to
3 ask you about the structure and composition of the Bratunac Brigade. The
4 1st Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade, what was its structure in July 1995?
5 A. The structure of the brigade at the time was as follows: We had
6 a brigade command with staff units and four infantry battalions.
7 Q. Very well. And now, I would like us to look at the following
8 document, 4D615, and you will find it under tab 4 in your binder. The
9 document is not in e-court, unfortunately, so it cannot be produced, but
10 copies -- I apologise. It seems that the document has already appeared
11 in e-court, so my information is bit outdated, unfortunately. Thank you
12 very much.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Did you have an occasion to see this document before?
15 A. Yes, I did. I saw it as I was being prepared for this trial.
16 Q. Could you explain the nature of this document, please?
17 A. This document is -- or rather, represents a list of the names
18 that -- of the people who were in the brigade, the composition of the
20 Q. You mean the brigade command?
21 A. Yes, the brigade command, and here we can also see --
22 Q. No. That's the next document that we will analyse next.
23 A. The brigade command.
24 Q. I would like us to dwell upon the structure of the command of the
25 Bratunac Brigade for the time being. We see the commander and the Chief
1 of Staff, and you can see their names?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And could you please go through the structure of the brigade
4 command as it follows?
5 A. Of course I can. Why not? In addition to the commander and the
6 Chief of Staff, there was also the operations and training officer who at
7 the time was 2nd Lieutenant Milorad Micic. We had assistant for
8 replenishment and personnel, Dragomir Riskic.
9 Q. You don't have to give us all the names. We would just like to
10 see the structure of the brigade and the functions that existed.
11 A. Yes. There is head of communications. There's an officer for
12 moral, a guidance and religious affairs; there is also the head of
13 intelligence service, or rather, intelligence and security. We also had
14 the assistant commander for logistics. There was also the officer in
15 charge of technical service, the quarter master service officer, traffic
16 service officer, and there was also a treasurer.
17 Q. And somewhere around the middle of this document, we can see your
18 name as the assistant commander for logistics?
19 A. Yes, that's me, Dragoslav Trisic.
20 Q. And now that you've looked at the entire document, could you
21 please tell me whether it truly reflects the composition of the command
22 of the 1st Bratunac light infantry brigade?
23 A. Yes. It is a true reflection of the composition of the command
24 of the Bratunac Brigade in the month of July 1995.
25 Q. Thank you. And now, let's look at the following document, which
1 is under tab 5 in your binder, and the document number in e-court is
2 4D569, so I would kindly ask the Court to produce the document in
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Let us see whether the document has entered the e-court system.
6 It seems that it did. Very well. First, tell us or explain the nature
7 of this document for the Court.
8 A. This is a list of the members of three infantry battalions on the
9 strength of the Bratunac Brigade.
10 Q. Very well. What can you tell us about the document without
11 mentioning any individual names? What was the structure of the
12 battalions? What were they made of?
13 A. They were made of infantry companies.
14 Q. Very well. And again, does this document reflect the situation
15 of the battalion as it was in June 1995, or is there anything that you
16 would wish to add when looking at this list?
17 A. It does not reflect the composition of the battalions in July
18 1995. During that period of time, we had on the strength of the brigade
19 also a 4th Battalion, the 4th Battalion which was in the sector of Karici
20 and Kravica villages. That battalion had been attached from the
21 composition of the Zvornik Brigade. This means that in July 1995, it was
22 on the strength of the Bratunac Brigade. It was one -- part of the
23 Bratunac Brigade.
24 Q. To your best recollection, could you please tell me, when
25 approximately was this 4th Battalion attached to the Bratunac Brigade?
1 A. I really can't remember exactly when that was. It was there
2 during that period of time, but I'm not sure when it was actually
3 attached to the brigade.
4 Q. Very well. And now, we will no longer need this document, but I
5 would like to ask you something about the neighbouring units.
6 You said that in the Bratunac Brigade there were four battalions.
7 Could you please tell me who was on your right flank? Which unit was
8 your right-hand side neighbour, to put it that way.
9 A. The right-hand side neighbour of the Bratunac Brigade were the
10 units of the Milici Infantry Brigade.
11 Q. Very well. And when we're talking about the lines of Defence of
12 the Bratunac Brigade and the Milici Brigade, were they physically
13 connected, or was there an interspace between these two brigades where
14 they should have been connected otherwise?
15 A. The forces of the Milici and the Bratunac Brigade did not have a
16 physical contact or connection. There was an interspace, an empty space
17 between them which was not covered by troops. That space was in the
18 so-called Bokcin Potok.
19 Q. Very well. Thank you. Could you please tell me, this interspace
20 or empty space that existed between the Bratunac and Milici Brigade, how
21 was it covered? How was it protected from the intrusions from the
22 enclave? How was this empty interspace covered?
23 A. Yes, I can tell you that. I can explain. That space, that area
24 was mostly mined; i.e., it was a minefield. There were mines in the
25 area. On the other hand, it could have been defended by mortar fire both
1 from the Milici and Bratunac Brigade units; and also in the vicinity,
2 there was also corps artillery. It was deployed in the Rogac sector.
3 Q. When we are talking about the corps artillery, could you please
4 be more precise and tell us what corps do you have in mind?
5 A. It was the Drina Corps.
6 Q. What unit are you referring to when you say the artillery of the
8 A. Yes, it was the 5th MAP
9 Q. Thank you very much. And let's move on to something else. Tell
10 me, please, in July 1995, were you still in charge of logistics; i.e.,
11 were you still the assistant commander of logistics?
12 A. Yes, that was my duty. I was the assistant commander for
13 logistics of the Bratunac Brigade at the time.
14 Q. Could you please tell us in very general terms, what were the
15 duties and tasks of the assistant commander of logistics in the brigade?
16 What were your duties? What tasks did you have to perform in your
17 capacity as the assistant commander for logistics?
18 A. Yes, I can tell you that. By and large, my duties and tasks were
19 to look at the overall situation in the units to see whether they had
20 enough materiel and technical equipment.
21 Q. I apologise. I was not going to interrupt you. Please continue
22 your answer.
23 A. This means that when the stock of the situation was taken, we
24 would establish whether there was anything missing, any materiel or
25 technical equipment, and then we would address the superior command and
1 request for the necessary materiel and technical equipment to be
2 replenished, so that unit would be brought up to speed with both materiel
3 and technical equipment.
4 Q. When we're talking about materiel and technical equipment, what
5 are you referring to? We are laypersons, so it may mean a lot to us, but
6 in military terms, what would the term imply?
7 A. That implies the overall equipment starting with weapons,
8 ammunition, clothes, footwear, food, and fuel for motor vehicles.
9 Q. And tell me, please, where was the Bratunac Brigade supplied
10 from? Where did all the materiel and technical equipment arrive from?
11 A. The brigade supplies came via the logistics base of the Drina
12 Corps. That logistics base supplied the Bratunac Brigade with all
13 logistics supplies.
14 Q. Very well. Were there any other sources from which the Bratunac
15 Brigade received its supplies?
16 A. Yes. In case the logistics base did not have all the necessary
17 materiel and technical equipment on stock, we were forced to approach the
18 executive authorities of the Bratunac municipality, asking them to
19 provide the missing materiel and technical equipment. Mostly, those were
20 items of food, items of clothing, and footwear, as well as the fuel that
21 we needed for our motor vehicles.
22 Q. Very well. And just one small clarification: When you were
23 talking about the logistics base, which logistics base were you thinking
24 of? Which unit?
25 A. That is the logistics base of the Drina Corps.
1 Q. Thank you. And let's just continue with a few more questions on
2 the same topic. You as the assistant logistics commander, how did you
3 send out requests either to the Drina Corps or, as you said, to the
4 Bratunac municipality entities? How was that done technically?
5 A. I would review the state of the supplies for the brigade and
6 establish which items were missing, and then I would calculate the MTS
7 that we were short of for the coming month; and based on that
8 calculation, I would draft a request to the executive board of the
9 Bratunac municipality, which in the meantime was formed by the staff for
10 the supply of the army. And that request of mine would be then submitted
11 to the staff in order to supply the soldiers, the troops, which would
12 specify exactly which of the Bratunac enterprises should provide the MTS
13 that we were requiring according to type.
14 For example, if we were short of fuel, it would be logical that
15 this would be provided for us through the Vihor transport company because
16 they had that in their supplies, and this also applied to the other
17 articles; for example, food. The company would be allocated which would
18 supply specific items.
19 Q. Well, let us just correct one thing because it seems to me that
20 this is something that was noted down wrongly in the transcript. It's
21 page 18, line 5. Actually lines 4, 5, 6 in your answer. It says here
22 that you would send out request to the executive board of the Bratunac
23 municipality, which in the meantime was formed by the staff for supplying
24 the army. I think there was some sort of switch there. Can you please
25 tell us who formed who? Did the staff form the executive board, or did
1 the executive board formed the staff?
2 A. Well, it's logical that the executive organ of power formed the
3 army supply staff.
4 Q. All right. Very well. I think that this is now clear.
5 Can you please tell me if you recorded what was received and what
6 was spent in terms of the MTS received by the Bratunac Brigade?
7 A. Yes. A record was kept diligently about all of the MTS received
8 from the economic subjects of the Bratunac municipality.
9 Q. Can you tell me how you did this?
10 A. We received the MTS from the companies, and we would draft
11 so-called materiel lists stating precisely the quantities of equipment.
12 And then these material lists were drafted in several copies so that
13 always one copy of the materiel list would be returned to the company
14 that issued the materiel.
15 Q. Very well. As assistant commander for logistics in the Bratunac
16 Brigade, did you have desk officers who helped you in this work; and if
17 can, so you please tell us who these people were and what exactly their
18 tasks were?
19 A. Yes. I did have assistants, desk officers, and they were the
20 following people: The desk officer for the technical service in July
21 1995 was Boza Momcilovic. The -- actually, technical services desk
22 officer -- I apologise. I apologise. I got a bit confused.
23 The technical services clerk was Novak Stojanovic. The medical
24 -- the quarter master service assistant was Boza Momcilovic. The traffic
25 and transport service clerk was the late Pavle Loncarevic. The medical
1 service clerk was Ljubo Bajatovic, and I think that was -- that's it.
2 Q. Well, there's no need to go into more detail on this. You talked
3 about --
4 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Lazarevic, what is MTS? What does it stand
5 for? Look at this page --
6 MR. LAZAREVIC: MTS. Materiel and equipment. That's MTS in all
7 these documents.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Okay. Thank you.
9 MR. LAZAREVIC:
10 Q. [Interpretation] My question, Mr. Trisic, was where were the MTS
11 stored that you received at the Bratunac Brigade?
12 A. The MTS was stored in two facilities, two warehouses as we
13 referred to them. The quarter master materiel, food and clothing, were
14 stored in the former TO warehouse, which we inherited as the Army of
15 Republika Srpska. The other MTS, primarily ammunition and weapons, were
16 stored nearby in the warehouse of the tobacco station nearby.
17 Q. Can you please tell me where the fuel was stored, the fuel that
18 you received?
19 A. Smaller quantities, up to 200 litres of fuel was kept there in
20 the warehouse of the brigade in barrels, and if there were larger
21 quantities such as 1, 2, or 3 tonnes, that fuel was stored in the cistern
22 of the Vihor transport company's gas station.
23 Q. Can you please tell us how, then, this MTS was further
24 distributed once it was received in the warehouse?
25 A. The MTS was issued upon request of the lower units, i.e., the
1 battalions. The battalions would make their needs known; and then based
2 on what was available, we would distribute the MTS to the battalions.
3 Q. My next question is, if the Bratunac Brigade had some kind of
4 transport means, can you remember which ones it had, if it had any?
5 A. Yes. I remember we had freight trucks, two TAM trucks, two
6 vehicles up to 2 tonnes, which were used as delivery vehicles. One of
7 those TAM
8 equipment. The TAM
9 We had two military trucks owned by the brigade; these were the TAM-110
10 and TAM
11 transport company, which we used to transport conscripts.
12 Q. Very well. I would now like to move to a different topic.
13 First, I would like you to look at tab 6 and the document marked 4D290 in
14 the e-court system. Do you have that document in front of you?
15 A. Yes, I do.
16 Q. This is a report of the commander of the Bratunac Brigade to the
17 Drina Corps command of the 16th of June, 1995. Did you have the
18 opportunity to see this document before?
19 A. Yes, I did.
20 Q. I don't want to really deal with the gist of the document. What
21 is of interest to me is paragraph 3 of the document where it says:
22 Pursuant to the Drina Corps commander strictly confidential order of the
23 8th of June, 1995, the 1st Bratunac Brigade has been ordered to form a
24 company. What is of interest to me in this document is that the company
25 is supposed to be located at the school in Bjelovac. That's what it says
1 in the document. Do you see that part of the document, paragraph 3?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Can you please tell us if the school in Bjelovac was used in
4 order to billet military conscripts as it is stated in this document?
5 A. Yes. It was used to billet these military conscripts.
6 Q. Very well. Let us now look at the next document. This is
7 document in tab 7, and it's document 4D292. Again, it's a report of the
8 Bratunac Brigade commander to the Drina Corps command dated the 17th of
9 June, I believe.
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Again, in the document, in the first paragraph it says -- it
12 talks about a unit that was in reserve in the Bjelovac sector. Can you
13 please tell me specifically where this unit physically was located in the
14 Bjelovac centre?
15 A. Also in the Bjelovac elementary school, which was being used for
16 the requirements of the Bratunac Brigade.
17 Q. Very well. Can we look at the next document. It's tab 8 in your
18 binder, and this is document 4D316.
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. This document is of the 4th of July, 1995. It's sent to the
21 Drina Corps command. The document is an analysis of the combat readiness
22 for the first half of 1995, and we can now look at page 7. Can you find
23 page 7 of the document?
24 A. I've found it.
25 Q. In the English, it's on page 8. In the upper right-hand corner,
1 it says attachment number 1 or annex number 1.
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And as the document says, this is a review of the implementation
4 of training and participation in courses during the first half of 1995.
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. I would like us to look at the entries in this table, entry under
7 number 1, also 3, 4, and 5, where it says that the place where the
8 training was carried out was the Drinjaca training centre. Can you
9 please tell us what the Drinjaca training centre was?
10 A. The Drinjaca training centre was a training centre inherited from
11 the former TO. It was part of the Drina Corps facilities. The Drina
12 Corps organised training in this training centre.
13 Q. Very well. Let's just look at entry 7 here, where it says
14 Bratunac Bjelovar where the training was being carried out. Can you
15 please tell us where this was -- actually was? Where were the
16 participants in the course physically when they went through the
18 A. It was still done in this before -- aforementioned training
19 centre in Bjelovac.
20 Q. All right. Let's look at page 10 of this document now. Can you
21 find page 10? In English, it's page 12. I apologise. While we are
22 looking at this, I would just like to make a small intervention for the
23 transcript. You said that this was physically in the school in Bjelovac;
24 is that correct?
25 A. Yes, yes.
1 Q. Very well. Did you manage to find page 10? It begins with
2 paragraph 5, "logistics support." Do you have that in front of you?
3 A. Yes, I've got it.
4 Q. Can you please look -- I'm going to put the question to you
5 first. Did you take part in the drafting of this combat readiness
6 analysis, and if you did, which section was the one that you worked on?
7 A. Yes, of course. I took part in the drafting of the logistic
8 support section of this report under paragraph 5.
9 Q. Well, let's look at this, the last sentence in paragraph 5 where
10 it says, "a staff for army supplies through which the brigade secures all
11 lacking materiel operates at the municipality level." Is this what you
12 were describing in your testimonies, that that municipality organ that
13 carried out these duties?
14 A. Yes, precisely. That is that organ, the staff for army supplies,
15 and we secured all the MTS that we required through this staff.
16 Q. In your best recollection, can you please just tell me who was
17 part of the staff?
18 A. The staff comprised of the president of the executive board and
19 the directors of companies in the Bratunac municipality area.
20 Q. Very well. Let's look at the next document in tab 9 in your
21 binder. It's 4D572. And it's a list of military conscripts of the
22 Bratunac Brigade for the month of June 1995. Do you have that in front
23 of you?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. On page 1 -- let's just wait for the B/C/S version of this
1 document to be brought up in e-court. Yes, that's it.
2 And somewhere in the middle of page 1, can you please find the
3 name of Milos Zivanovic, and then in the last column of the title "Unit,"
4 it says the military economy. Can you explain the term "military
6 A. Yes. The military economy was actually an independent unit which
7 had been established by the Drina Corps. It was, actually, part of the
8 Drina Corps as such, and it served to supply food to the Drina Corps.
9 Q. Very well. And now on the same page, could you please find the
10 name Janko Zivanovic, whose father's name was Vasilije, and in the last
11 column it says the Bjelovac barracks. Would that be the school that you
12 have already spoken about?
13 A. Yes, that was the school. Janko Zivanovic was directly
14 responsible for the maintenance of that facility.
15 Q. Very well. And can we now go to page 4 of this document. Do you
16 see the name of Savo Sijedic [phoen], father's name Nemanja [phoen], and
17 could you please give us the name of the unit under the last column next
18 to his name?
19 A. It is, again, the Bjelovac barracks, which means it's the same
20 facility as before.
21 Q. Thank you. Now, let's move on to the next exhibit. This is
22 under tab 10, and in e-court it is 4D571. It is a document which is very
23 similar to the one that we've just seen, but it refers to the month of
24 June 1995. On page 1, you will see again -- can you please find the name
25 Janko Zivanovic, father's name Vasilije?
1 A. Yes, I can. I have.
2 Q. And again, we can see that the last column lists Bjelovac next to
3 his name.
4 A. Yes, the same school, the same facility.
5 Q. The first document that we saw referred to June, and this one
6 refers to July. My question is whether in the month of July this school
7 was still used by the Bratunac Brigade?
8 A. Yes. It was still used in the month of July by the Bratunac
10 Q. And now, let's look at another very similar document, which is
11 4D570, and in your binder it's under tab 11. This is a list of military
12 conscripts for the month of August 1995; and similarly to the previous
13 two documents on page 1, could you please find the name of Janko
14 Zivanovic, and could you please find his unit in the last column. My
15 question to you, whether in August 1995 the school in Bjelovac was also
16 used by the Bratunac Brigade?
17 A. Yes, it was also used for the Bratunac Brigade in the month of
18 August 1995.
19 Q. Very well. And now I would like us to move on to a different
20 topic. Could you please find a document under tab 12 which is 4D313.
21 A. Yes, I've found it.
22 Q. Let us just wait for a moment for this exhibit to be produced in
24 This is a preparatory order by the Drina Corps number 1. The
25 date is the 2nd of July, 1995; and first of all, I would like to ask you
1 whether you have seen this document before.
2 A. Yes, I've seen it before. I had an occasion to see it before,
3 and also, while I was being prepared for this testimony I saw it.
4 Q. And now let's look at page 1, and let's see who the document was
5 addressed to.
6 A. It was sent to all the subordinated units of the corps, to all
7 the brigades.
8 Q. In July 1995, was that document received by the Bratunac Brigade?
9 A. Yes, it was received in July.
10 Q. Tell me, please, on the receipt of this document, did the brigade
11 command discuss the document?
12 A. Yes, the command did discuss the document.
13 Q. Let's look at page 2 in this document at item under (e).
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. It says here, the 1st Bratunac and the 1st military brigade will
16 carry out -- I apologise, will give the troops and military technique to
17 perform combat operations in their respective areas of responsibility.
18 Can you see that?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Does this speak about the tasks that were given to the
21 Bratunac-Milici [Realtime transcript read in error, "military"] brigade
22 by this order?
23 A. Yes. This is a very concrete task given to the troops for active
24 combat operations, as it says in here.
25 Q. Just a small correction in the transcript. It says "military
1 brigade," and it should read "Milici brigade." This is on page 27, line
2 13. It should read Bratunac and Milici brigade.
3 THE INTERPRETER: Off mic.
4 MR. LAZAREVIC:
5 Q. [Interpretation] Let's stay on the second page of this document,
6 and let's look at the bullet point 5.
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. It says here: The corps command shall carry out all preparations
9 for command and control of active combat operations from IKM-1, which
10 shall be put into operation as of 1400 hours on 4 July 1995.
11 According to your best recollection, was the forward command post
12 of the Drina Corps established at the time specified herein?
13 A. Yes, it was established. The forward command post was
14 established as per this order in the Pribicevac section.
15 Q. When you received this preparatory order - and I don't mean you
16 specifically, but the brigade command - was something undertaken in order
17 to implement this order?
18 A. Yes. We took appropriate measures to establish the unit that was
19 to carry out combat operations and to equip this unit with all the combat
21 Q. And you as the assistant commander for logistics in the brigade,
22 what was your task with regard to the implementation of this preparatory
24 A. Our task was to supply the unit with MTS which would be necessary
25 for the unit to carry out active combat operations.
1 Q. Very well. Let's look at the following document which is under
2 your tab 13. This is P224 in e-court. Could it please be produced.
3 A. I have it in handwriting.
4 Q. Let's wait for the document to appear in e-court. Now that we
5 have the document in front of us, could you please tell me whether you
6 personally wrote this document?
7 A. Yes, I did. This is my handwriting. I can tell.
8 Q. First of all, let's look at the date. The date is the 3rd of
9 July, 1995, and it was sent to the command of the Drina Corps, and the
10 subject is "request for equipment and materiel." It says here:
11 "Pursuant to your preparatory order number 1," and let me not read the
12 whole number, "dated 2nd July, 1995
13 provide us with the following equipment and materiel."
14 My question to you, sir, the first with regard to this document
15 is this: Was your document in connection with the one that we just saw
16 under the title "preparatory order"?
17 A. Yes. It says in the first paragraph that I am referring to the
18 preparatory order number 1, and we are requesting for the command to
19 supply us with the materiel and equipment.
20 Q. Tell me, please, based on your request, did the Drina Corps
21 indeed supply you with all the things that you requested?
22 A. Yes, they did, but not in the required quantities but in
23 substantially lower quantities.
24 MR. LAZAREVIC: Very well. [In English] This would be an
25 appropriate time to take our usual break because I'm going to move to
1 another topic.
2 JUDGE AGIUS: Certainly. How much longer do you expect your
3 examination-in-chief will last?
4 MR. LAZAREVIC: Your Honour, I'm pretty confident that it will
5 take the rest of the day.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: The rest of the day. Okay. All right. We'll have
7 a 25-minute break starting from now. Thank you.
8 --- Recess taken at 10.22 a.m.
9 --- On resuming at 10.52 a.m.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Mr. Lazarevic, we'll decide the other
11 issues that I spoke to you about earlier on later on in the day so that
12 we do not interrupt the testimony. Go ahead.
13 MR. LAZAREVIC:
14 Q. [Interpretation] Very well. Mr. Trisic, now I would like to move
15 on to the following document, which is under your tab 14. The Exhibit
16 number is 4D378. It is in e-court. We'll wait for it to appear.
17 A. Very well.
18 Q. This is an order for active combat operations dated the 2nd of
19 July, 1995. First of all, tell me whether you've had an occasion to see
20 this document before.
21 A. I've had an occasion to see the document before.
22 Q. Let us first look at the last page of this document.
23 A. Very well.
24 Q. Can you please scroll down to display the bottom of the document.
25 Can you see the stamp at the very bottom of the document?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Could you please tell us, when was this document received by the
3 Bratunac Brigade?
4 A. As it says here, it was received on the 5th of July, 1995.
5 Q. When the Bratunac Brigade received this document, did the command
6 discuss it?
7 A. Yes, the command did discuss this document.
8 Q. What were the obligations or duties of the brigade command from
9 the moment that they received this document?
10 A. The duties of the brigade or its obligations were to prepare for
11 the implementation of this order for active combat operations; and based
12 -- or pursuant to this order, we were supposed to draft appropriate
13 documents for our subordinated units.
14 Q. Very well. Did you work on the copy of the document that we have
15 in front of us?
16 A. Yes. As you can see, this was our aid when drafting our own
17 documents for our subordinated units.
18 Q. Very well. Let's now look at page 3 in this document. Could
19 page 3 please be displayed. Somewhere in the middle, you can see that
20 one portion is encircled, and it says here, the Bratunac Light Infantry
21 Brigade with parts of its troops starts an assault. I'm not going to
22 read the entire document, but I would like to ask you whether these are
23 the concrete combat tasks that the Bratunac Brigade received with regard
24 to the order.
25 A. Yes. These are very concrete combat tasks for the brigade
2 Q. Let's now go back to the last page of this document once again.
3 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, Mr. Thayer.
4 MR. THAYER: Thank you, Mr. President. I note that the e-court
5 version because of some highlighting has a particular line blacked out.
6 It's illegible. I have the original of the document which -- in which
7 you can read the top line which is illegible as it stands on e-court. I
8 don't know if my friend wishes to use it, but I have the original here.
9 It's certainly more legible than what we've placed in e-court.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Is the first line important for --
11 MR. LAZAREVIC: This is very useful. I don't find it
12 particularly important, but if need be, I mean, it's very useful to know
13 that we have the original of the document.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. We'll do just that. We'll put it on the
15 ELMO, please. Thank you, Mr. Thayer. The ERN number, last three digits
16 is 381.
17 MR. THAYER: Correct, Mr. President.
18 MR. LAZAREVIC:
19 Q. [Interpretation] Very well. Now, on this page under number 6, it
20 says under 9, "logistic support," and in further text we can follow all
21 the way up to item 11. Would this part of the order refer to the
22 logistics support, i.e., to yourself as the assistant commander for
23 logistics support in the Bratunac Brigade?
24 A. Yes. It refers to the part of the task that was to be carried
25 out by the logistics support of the brigade.
1 Q. Very well. And did you enter something on this copy, or did you
2 do something with regard to this copy?
3 A. Yes. As you can see where it says infantry weapons ammunition,
4 in the brackets it says "four units in assault." It's my handwriting. I
5 made these corrections in my own order or for my own order.
6 Q. And the other members of the command, did they proceed in the
7 same way as you did, namely, enter some more specific information into
8 the order?
9 A. Yes. As you can see, the other senior officers made corrections
10 on this order as well.
11 Q. And can you tell us exactly what you were able to notice in the
13 A. Well, from what I can see on page 5, Security Captain Nikolic
14 entered a correction or added the sector for the assembly of prisoners of
15 war should be in the Pribicevac sector as well as war booty.
16 Q. And did you recognise Captain Nikolic's handwriting?
17 A. Yes, I recognised his handwriting. I can see that it's
18 characteristic. As far as some letters are concerned, I recognise it.
19 And also, we worked together before the war.
20 Q. Thank you. In order to clarify this a little bit more, I don't
21 need to use this document anymore. I would like to look at what is in
22 tab 15 in your binder, and that is 4D605, pages 6 and 7 of this document.
23 A. Very well.
24 Q. Do you have that in front of you?
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. Well, let's look -- let's wait until this appears in the e-court.
2 MR. LAZAREVIC: The document that we need has ERN number -- oh,
3 yes, that's the one.
4 Q. [Interpretation] Were you able to notice the handwriting on this
5 document as well?
6 A. Yes, yes. It's evidently a document written by Captain Nikolic.
7 Q. Very well. The next document that I wanted to look at is number
8 16 in your bundle, and it is document --
9 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please repeat the number of
10 the document.
11 MR. LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] I'm going to wait for it to
12 appear in e-court. Let me just repeat the number of the document. It's
14 Q. Very well. This is a document of the 1st Light Infantry Brigade
15 Bratunac Brigade of the 5th of July, 1995, and it's an order for active
16 combat actions OP number 3. Let's see who was going to receive this
18 A. It was sent to the commands of the 1st, 2nd, 3rd and 4th Infantry
19 Battalion, and of course, to the files.
20 Q. Very well. Let's now look at item 11, which is on the last page
21 in the B/C/S and 6 -- page 6 in the English version, and it refers to
22 logistics support.
23 A. Very well.
24 Q. Can you please tell me now, when you had the opportunity to look
25 at the previous document the order for combat actions of the Drina Corps
1 and this document by the Bratunac Brigade, what can you tell us about
2 this document? In what way is it connected to the previous document?
3 A. Based on the previous document, we -- in order to support combat
4 actions, we approved the cited quantities of ammunition, fuel and -- in
5 order for the assignment to be carried out.
6 Q. And are these more precise directives that you talked about that
7 were entered on the order of the Drina Corps?
8 A. Yes. That is actually making the order itself more specific and
9 more concrete.
10 Q. Yes. And now I would like to move to the period after the 6th of
11 July, and we know that the VRS forces had entered Srebrenica. Can you
12 please tell us where you were in this period from the 6th to the 11th of
14 A. I was mostly in the brigade command in the logistics company, and
15 that's where I was for the most part, in that area.
16 Q. Now, I would like to ask you about a person called Bozo
17 Momcilovic. You already mentioned him. What was his function in the
18 Bratunac Brigade at the time before these combat actions started?
19 A. Bozo Momcilovic was my assistant for the quarter master service.
20 Q. I would now like to look at the following document. It's in tab
21 17 in your binder; and in the e-court system, it's document 4D597.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Can we just wait a little bit for the document to appear in the
24 e-court system. I know that you already have it in front of you.
25 Very well. This is an order to engage corporal Bozo Momcilovic
1 who had been passed on to the Bratunac Brigade, and the date is the 4th
2 of July, 1995?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Did you have the opportunity to see this document before?
5 A. Yes, I did have the opportunity to see the document before.
6 Q. Can you please tell me, who signed the document and in what
8 A. The document was signed by Deputy Commander for Logistics Colonel
9 Lazar Acamovic.
10 Q. Can you please tell me whether Colonel Acamovic was your
12 A. Yes. Along the lines of rear supply, he was my superior.
13 Q. And can you tell me if this order of the Drina Corps command was
14 executed and whether Mr. Momcilovic was engaged on the forward command
15 post of the Drina Corps as of the 5th of July as it is stated in the
17 A. Yes. Momcilovic, Bozo, was engaged from the 7th [as interpreted]
18 of July at the forward command post of the Drina Corps in the Pribicevac
20 Q. Just one correction for the transcript. On page 36, line 6,
21 which was the date that you mentioned?
22 A. From the 5th of July.
23 Q. Because it says here the 7th of July. So Mr. Bozo Momcilovic's
24 assignment, did that mean that some other tasks were being carried out
25 compared to those that he was already performing in the Bratunac Brigade?
1 A. Yes. What it meant is that he was appointed as coordinator of
2 logistics support at the forward command post, but he also carried out
3 other tasks, not just the quarter master jobs.
4 Q. Tell me, from the point in time when he was engaged at the
5 forward command post of the Drina Corps, to whom did Mr. Momcilovic
6 report to from that point on?
7 A. Momcilovic reported to the assistant commander for logistics,
8 Colonel Lazar Acamovic.
9 Q. Now, I would like to put a number of questions to you, and I
10 would like us to look at a certain number of documents that refer to the
11 operation of telephone lines at that time. According to your best
12 recollection, did the telephone traffic function as usual during the
13 Krivaja-95 operation?
14 A. No. At the time that the operation was being executed, the
15 telephone traffic did not function regularly.
16 Q. Let us look at the next document. This is a document in your
17 binder in tab 18. This is 4D541.
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Well, we are just going to wait for it to appear in the e-court
20 system. All right.
21 This is a document of the 5th of July, 1995, the Main Staff of
22 the Army of Republika Srpska, the commander of the Main Staff; and the
23 subject of the order is disconnecting PTT communications in the area of
24 combat operations. Can we first look at the recipients of the document.
25 A. The document was sent to the commands of the corps and other
1 subordinate units.
2 Q. Let's look at paragraph 3 of the document briefly, of the order.
3 Can you see where it says: "Exceptionally, if the required procedure..."
4 Can you please tell us what this refers to as issued by the Main Staff
6 A. What this is about is that the commander in the area of
7 responsibility can more closely decide on the manner that communications
8 would be disconnected or the manner in which they would be used.
9 Q. All right. Let's look at the next document. This is document in
10 tab 19 in your binder, and it's document 4D543 in the e-court system.
11 A. Very well.
12 Q. This is an order of the Drina Corps command of the 6th of July,
13 1995. We can see that it was dispatched to all Drina Corps subordinate
14 units. First, I would like to ask you to look at the stamp that is at
15 the bottom of the page.
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Can you tell me the date that this was received at the Bratunac
18 1st Brigade?
19 A. It was on the 6th of July, 1995, that it was received.
20 Q. Were you informed about the document when it was received at the
22 A. Yeah, I probably was.
23 Q. Very well. Let us now look at the following document. That is
24 document in tab 20 in your binder, and it's document 4D544 in the e-court
1 A. Very well.
2 Q. Look at this document, please. It's -- let's just wait for the
3 English translation of the document to be put on the screen. All right.
4 We have it now. It's a document from the commander of the 1st Bratunac
5 Light Infantry Brigade to the Drina Corps command referring to the
6 document of the 7th of July, 1995.
7 Can you please tell us how this document is connected to the
8 previous one that we just looked at?
9 A. We can see from the document that the commander of the Bratunac
10 Brigade is informing the corps command that on the basis of the corps
11 command order, we disconnected telephones in the brigade's area of
12 responsibility for reasons of execution of combat actions in the area of
13 the brigade. It is also stated that command members' telephones and the
14 company director's telephones were not disconnected and they can work
15 only within the local exchange network in the town.
16 Q. All right. I think that we have finished with this document. We
17 won't be needing it anymore.
18 Can we now move to the 11th of July, 1995. We have already said
19 that that was the day when the VRS forces entered Srebrenica; and before
20 I put any more questions to you, in reference to this date, I would like
21 to ask you if you know Mr. Ljubomir Borovcanin.
22 A. Yes, I do know him.
23 Q. Can you please tell me when and in which circumstances you made
24 your acquaintance with him.
25 A. Yes. Mr. Borovcanin came to Bratunac in early 1993. I couldn't
1 really tell you which month it was exactly. He was appointed commander
2 of the police station in Bratunac.
3 Q. Very well. And please tell me, you know him from that period; is
4 that correct?
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And can you please tell me, on what terms were you with Mr.
7 Borovcanin at that time?
8 A. We were on good terms. Our relations were friendly. We would
9 sometimes meet with common friends; we would have coffee and so on.
10 Q. Do you remember if Mr. Borovcanin at one point left Bratunac?
11 A. Yes. Mr. Borovcanin left Bratunac in 1994 to assume other
13 Q. Let me ask this: From the moment when Mr. Borovcanin in 1994
14 left Bratunac up until the event of 1995, did you have occasion to meet
16 A. Yes, I did, from time to time when he came to Bratunac because
17 his parents remained in Bratunac and he used to come to visit them, so I
18 had occasion on a couple of occasions to meet with Mr. Borovcanin.
19 Q. All right. Tell me now, please, on 11th July, on the day when
20 the army entered Srebrenica, did you see Mr. Borovcanin?
21 A. No, I did not.
22 Q. Did you have any communication with Mr. Borovcanin without seeing
23 him in person?
24 A. Yes, I did. I had contact with him from the brigade command.
25 Q. Could you please describe what type of contact this was with Mr.
1 Borovcanin on 11th July?
2 A. On the 11th of July in the afternoon hours, I was at the brigade
3 command in the operation centre - this is a large office - and he was
4 speaking with someone. I didn't know at the time who was on the line
5 with him, but at that point the duty officer said, here is Trisic for
6 you, and you can -- you can talk to him. Then I took the receiver; I
7 spoke with Mr. Borovcanin, and we exchanged greetings. I asked him how
8 he was, and he asked me how I was. He told me -- Mr. Borovcanin told me
9 that he was on the way to the corps IKM forward command post and that he
10 was to receive an order from General Krstic and that his unit was on the
11 way and expected to arrive.
12 I told him, because I had previously agreed with Colonel
13 Acamovic, that the police unit that was en route could be accommodated at
14 the building, the school building in Bjelovac. So this was agreed. It
15 was planned for his unit to be billeted in the school in Bjelovac.
16 This is the content of our conversation, and that's where it
18 Q. All right. Let us now talk about the 12th of July, 1995
19 you tell us, please, in the early morning hours on the 12th of July,
20 1995, where were you?
21 A. I was at the brigade command.
22 Q. That morning on the 12th, did you see any senior officers at the
23 brigade command, any senior officers of the Army of Republika Srpska? If
24 so, could you tell us whom?
25 A. Yes, I did. There were a number of officers from superior
1 command, from the corps command of the Main Staff. There were a number
2 of officers.
3 Q. Tell us, please, to the best of your recollection, whom did you
5 A. Well, General Mladic was there, the commander, and General
6 Krstic, who was at the time from the Drina Corps. That was mainly whom I
7 saw. There were other officers, but I can't quite tell you who. I
8 couldn't really speculate.
9 Q. Of course, I cannot insist on this. You are to tell us only what
10 you can remember.
11 Now, on this 12th of July, did you personally attend a meeting
12 with Generals Mladic and Krstic?
13 A. No, I did not. That was not my level. As assistant commander
14 for logistics, brigade commander, it was not my place to attend a meeting
15 of senior officers.
16 Q. All right. Speaking of the 12th, I would like now to show you a
17 document under tab 21. In the e-court system, it is 3D505. Let's just
18 wait for a moment for the document to appear in the English.
19 First let me ask you, it says here Petrovdan, St. Peter's Day,
20 1995. Tell us, please, did you draft this document?
21 A. Yes, this is my handwriting.
22 Q. This document is entitled "Consumption or Expenditures of
23 Materiel and Equipment," and "we hereby submit the consumption materiel
24 equipment for the period from the 10th to the 12th July, 1995". Tell us,
25 please, what exactly does this mean, the consumption of materiel and
1 equipment for the period from 10 to 12 July 1995?
2 A. This document indicates that we are informing the corps that the
3 said quantities of materiel and technical equipment was forwarded to the
4 subordinate units. In other words, in this period, the subordinate units
5 were supplied with this materiel, which does not mean necessarily that
6 they had used all that materiel.
7 Q. All right. Let us now take a look at the next document under tab
8 22, Exhibit P110 in the e-court system.
9 A. All right.
10 Q. Let's now first describe this document. This is a document
11 entitled "Providing Buses for Evacuation from Srebrenica Enclave," order
12 from the command of the Drina Corps of 12 July 1995. First of all, let's
13 see who this order was forwarded to, all the recipients.
14 A. It was forwarded to all the units and brigades of the Drina
16 Q. All right. Now, let's take a look at the bottom of this
17 document. We can see a stamp there. Can you tell us when this order was
18 received at the Bratunac Brigade?
19 A. We can see that it was received on the 12th of July at 835 hours.
20 Q. Can you tell us, please, who was -- who received it, if you can
21 judge by the signature there?
22 A. It was received by Major Eskic.
23 Q. Can you please just remind us what duties Major Eskic performed
24 in the Bratunac Brigade?
25 A. Major Eskic was in charge of personnel matters in the Bratunac
2 Q. Tell us, please, did personnel matters include mobilisation?
3 A. Yes. So to be more precise, he was in charge of personnel and
4 organisation and mobilisation within the brigade.
5 Q. Did the mobilisation include only personnel or also materiel?
6 A. Both personnel and materiel.
7 Q. And on this day, on the 12th of July, 1995, what duties was Major
8 Eskic performing?
9 A. Well, based on this, you can see that he was the duty operations
10 officer because he was the one who received this document.
11 Q. All right. You've already told us about two buses that had been
12 mobilised from the Vihor company and were used for transport of the
13 troops of the Bratunac Brigade. Tell us, please, on the 12th of July,
14 1995, were these two buses used for transporting civilians from Potocari?
15 A. Yes. They were used for that purpose, and you can see from this
16 order that this was ordered and in view of the fact that I was in
17 frequent contact with Colonel --
18 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not hear the colonel's
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- this was relayed to me, and
21 these two buses were used for transporting civilians.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: We need the witness to repeat the general's name.
23 Thank you.
24 MR. LAZAREVIC: Yes, I'm noticing.
25 Q. [Interpretation] Could you please repeat the colonel's name that
1 you just mentioned, the name that you just mentioned, the colonel that
2 you were in touch with who ordered for these two buses to be used for
3 transport of civilians from Potocari?
4 A. Yes. I said that I was in frequent communication with Colonel
5 Acamovic, who was the assistant commander for logistics within the corps;
6 and of course, he relayed this order to me, informed me of it, so it was
7 normal that we would provide these buses for transport of the Muslims
8 from Srebrenica.
9 Q. All right. Let me ask you this: In addition to Colonel
10 Acamovic's order, did you receive that -- such an order from anyone else
11 on the 12th [Realtime transcript read in error, "14th"] of July, 1995?
12 A. Yes. I received an order from Colonel Acamovic to provide large
13 quantities of bread and to supply Potocari with this bread for the Muslim
14 population there.
15 Q. Could you please just hold a sec. I would like to intervene on
16 the transcript. On page 44, line 24, it says July 14th, and I was
17 referring to July 12. And that's what we were discussing just now,
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Tell us, did you carry out this order of Colonel Acamovic's for
21 the supply of bread and its distribution?
22 A. Yes. I ordered the logistics sector, the logistics -- the
23 logistics company of the brigade, we ordered them to supply this bread to
24 Potocari and to try to get as much bread as possible in order to provide
25 it for the needs of the Muslim population.
1 Q. I apologise. I see that some parts of your answer did not make
2 it into the transcript. Could you please repeat your last answer,
3 especially where it concerns the bakery and your orders regarding that.
4 Could you just repeat what you've just said?
5 A. Yes, I can. So I received an order from Colonel Acamovic to
6 ensure that there were large supplies of bread that were to be sent to
7 the Potocari sector for the need of the Muslim population. Through the
8 logistics company of the brigade, I ordered that a certain quantity of
9 bread from our own bakery, the brigade bakery, that as large a quantity
10 of bread be provided as possible. In other words, all the bread that was
11 being baked at the bakery at that point, that it should be sent to
12 Potocari and that the bakery should resume with baking more bread.
13 Q. Thank you. I think your answer is now in the transcript as
14 you've stated it.
15 Now, tell us, on this day, on the 12th of July, 1995, did you go
16 to Potocari?
17 A. Yes, I did.
18 Q. How did you go there?
19 A. I went there using -- in my own official car.
20 Q. Were you alone, or was someone with you?
21 A. No. I was by myself.
22 Q. Could you tell us, please, and I don't expect you to tell us the
23 exact hour or minute, but can you tell us approximately when you arrived
24 in Potocari?
25 A. Well, at midday
1 Q. How long did you stay in Potocari on the 12th of July?
2 A. As far as I can remember, I was there for about an hour, an hour
3 and a half.
4 Q. When you went to Potocari from Bratunac on this occasion, you
5 drove past the Yellow Bridge
6 Dutch checkpoint, a Dutch battalion checkpoint right when you crossed the
7 Zuti Most?
8 A. Yes, it was there.
9 Q. Tell us, please, on your way to Potocari, did you notice whether
10 the Dutch soldiers were still at the checkpoint or not?
11 A. Yes, they were at the checkpoint, but they did not stop us. We
12 just -- I just drove by without any interference from their part.
13 Q. Tell us, please, on your way back from Potocari, did you drive by
14 the same checkpoint, and were the Dutch battalion soldiers present there?
15 A. Yes. They were there on my way back as well.
16 Q. What was the reason for your trip to Potocari on July 12, 1995?
17 A. The main reason was to check how the order on the supply of bread
18 to the Muslim population and its distribution was being carried out.
19 Q. When you arrived in Potocari, what did you see?
20 A. In the Potocari sector, i.e., in the sector of the transport
21 company from Srebrenica, there was a large number of Muslims gathered
22 there in that sector. Those were mostly women, children, and as far as I
23 can remember and as far as I could see, those were elderly men also.
24 The DutchBat soldiers were separating the Muslim population from
25 the Serb troops. There was a yellow line that they had placed to prevent
1 the Muslim soldiers from approaching -- the Muslim civilian population
2 from approaching the Serb soldiers and vice-versa.
3 Q. And did you also have an occasion to see members of the Serb
4 troops; and if you did, what units were those, and what did you see?
5 A. I did, yes. There were soldiers from various units there, not
6 only from the Drina Corps but from other units as well. First and
7 foremost, there were soldiers from the units of the Bratunac Brigade.
8 Most of them were military policemen, but there were also regular foot
9 soldiers. There were also corps police members there; there were members
10 of the Zvornik Brigade; and there were also individual police officers
11 from Bratunac as well. That would be that, by and large.
12 Q. Very well. And now, please tell me, on the 12th of July when you
13 were in Potocari, did you see Mr. Borovcanin there as well?
14 A. No. I did not see him in the Potocari sector on that occasion.
15 Q. You've already told us that you saw members of the Bratunac
16 Brigade and members of the military police of the Bratunac Brigade there.
17 Tell me, what could you notice? What were the military police of the
18 Bratunac Brigade doing in Potocari at that time?
19 A. They were performing their tasks of establishing peace and order
20 in the area. They also participated in the separation of soldiers from
21 the Muslim civilian population.
22 Q. When you say "soldiers," you mean members of the Serb forces?
23 A. Yes, that's exactly what I mean.
24 Q. Very well, then. Did the military police engage in any
25 activities with regard to traffic, buses, lorries, those vehicles that
1 had arrived in Potocari on that day in order to transport the Muslim
2 population? Could you notice any such thing?
3 A. Yes. They were tasked with forming the convoy of buses that
4 would be transporting that civilian population.
5 Q. I would like us to look at a document which consists of a number
6 of pages, and I will put my question at the end. But first, I would like
7 us to look at some of those pages. This is the log of the duty
8 operations officer of the Bratunac Brigade. This is P220. And first,
9 let us look at page 16 in B/C/S, i.e., page 13 in the English version of
10 the document.
11 I'm going to put my questions to you after we have seen a few
12 entries in the logbook, i.e., several daily reports for certain days; and
13 first of all, I would like to state that based on this report, we can see
14 that the military police were engaged in securing the UNHCR and
15 delivering the Muslim population on Zuti Most to the Serb soldiers in
16 Bratunac. And also, it says that one part of the police forces secured
17 the sick and wounded in the clinic and the passage of trucks transporting
18 refugees from the Srebrenica enclave through Bratunac. And then a
19 reference is made to my duty, but this is not important for our purposes.
20 Let's look at the following page of this same document, the entry first
21 of the 14th and 15th of July.
22 A. Very well.
23 Q. And again, there is a relatively short entry there. It says the
24 police were engaged in escorting Muslim refugees; and then the following
25 page, which also refers to the 15th of July, it says here that the police
1 were engaged in controlling and scouring the area as well as apprehending
2 and bringing in Muslims who had been found hiding in the area.
3 I would like us to look at just one more entry which is relative
4 to the 19th of July on page 21. In your binder, you will see that the
5 ERN number is 00663930. That's the ERN number on the page. This is
6 3928, so we have to move on two pages further in e-court to get to the
7 page. Yes, this is the page.
8 Do you have the page in front of you, sir?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. It says here, as you may see it yourself?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. "Military conscripts were informing on the ground. There were no
13 other problems. Patrols went to provide security of communal workers in
15 Now that we have looked at all of these page, I would like to ask
16 you this: Do you know anything or do you have any information about
17 these entries in the military police logbook? Did you ever have an
18 occasion to see this before? Do you know anything about this at all?
19 A. In these reports, one can see that the reference is made to the
20 engagement of the military police, mostly when it came to the surrender
21 of the Muslim population, securing transportation of the Muslims, their
22 loading on the buses, and their transfer to Tuzla and Kladanj. That was
23 how things went, and every day it was more or less the same. Muslim
24 refugees were escorted. There was scouring of the terrain, and they call
25 it controlling and combing of the terrain.
1 Q. Very well, but do you know any details? Are you familiar with
2 any particular details?
3 A. No, none. Especially about the -- providing security of the
4 communal workers in Glogova. This is a thing that I didn't know anything
5 about. I've just seen it now in the document.
6 Q. If you didn't know, you didn't know. It's okay. I'm not going
7 to put any further questions in this regard to you.
8 On the 12th of July, you were in Potocari. Could you please tell
9 me whether you had an occasion to see General Mladic on that occasion?
10 A. General Mladic was there. There's no doubt about that, and he
11 even addressed the Muslim population gathered there, and he offered them
12 to be transported in the direction of Tuzla
13 wholeheartedly, I would say.
14 Q. And let me ask you this with this regard: With regard to the
15 12th, did you at any point in time enter the crowd of the refugees that
16 were gathered there in Potocari?
17 A. No, I did not enter the crowd at all.
18 Q. This means that you were on the other side of the line, of the
19 yellow line?
20 A. Yes, on the other side of the yellow line.
21 Q. Tell me, please, while you were there for an hour or an hour and
22 a half as you've told us, did you have an occasion to see how people were
23 separated, how men were separated from their families in Potocari?
24 A. No. I did not have an opportunity to see that, to see that
1 Q. Did you see the arrival of the buses and other means of
2 transportation in Potocari, and did you see that Muslim civilians were
3 being loaded onto those?
4 A. Yes. I saw the arrival of the vehicles, and I witnessed a moment
5 when Muslims got on the buses, women and children, that is.
6 Q. While you were there and when you could observe the Muslim
7 population getting on the buses, did you notice any Serb soldiers or
8 police officers applying any acts of violence against these civilians?
9 Were the civilians beaten, pushed, shoved, or any such thing?
10 A. No, no. I did not see any such thing. Those were women with
11 young children and elderly. There was no such behaviour on the part of
12 the Serb soldiers towards them.
13 Q. On that day, on the 12th of July, 1995, did you have an occasion
14 to see Captain Momir Nikolic in Potocari?
15 A. Yes, I saw him at the time in Potocari.
16 Q. Did you talk to him at all on that day? Did you exchange any
18 A. No, I did not have an occasion to talk to him. A lot was going
19 on, and I did not have an opportunity to talk to him.
20 Q. What did you see Momir Nikolic doing on that day in Potocari, on
21 the 12th of July, that is?
22 A. Well, he was there with the large group of soldiers; and as far
23 as I could tell, he was giving tasks to the police officers, what they
24 were supposed to do, what they were supposed to secure, how they were
25 supposed to go about their -- performing the tasks that were ahead of
2 Q. Did Momir Nikolic communicate with members of other units and not
3 only with the members of the military police of the Bratunac Brigade?
4 Did you see that?
5 A. Yes, yes. I saw him in communication with other soldiers. The
6 corps police was there, as well, and I saw this as some sort of
7 coordination in the work of all these units.
8 Q. Very well. And when you returned from Potocari after that brief
9 stay in Potocari, where did you go next?
10 A. I went to the brigade command.
11 Q. Very well. And now tell me, please, where did you spend the rest
12 of that day up to a certain point in time, on the 12th of July, that is?
13 A. I was mostly in the brigade command. I may have left it for a
14 brief moment, but I was mostly there.
15 Q. On the 12th of July, 1995, did you have an occasion to see Mr.
17 A. Yes, I did have an occasion to see him.
18 Q. Could you please describe that encounter, when and where it
20 A. It the town centre, there was the logistics company. This is
21 where I was billeted, and sometime in the afternoon - and I can't tell
22 you exactly when it was; I must have been with the logistics company in
23 the very centre where Mr. Borovcanin resided and had his apartment - I
24 came across him late in the afternoon. And since we knew each other, we
25 greeted each other. We exchanged a few words. We engaged in a
1 conversation, I would say. And then I learned from Mr. Borovcanin that
2 his unit was summoned to go back urgently to Zvornik to be further
3 engaged in a different task.
4 Q. Do you know where Mr. Borovcanin resided, and did you reside in
5 his immediate vicinity?
6 A. Yes. We resided in two neighbouring buildings, and we would very
7 often see each other there. And on that occasion, we also bumped into
8 each other and had a conversation.
9 Q. I would just like to make a clear record. It was later in the
10 afternoon or at dusk, rather; is that what you said?
11 A. Yes, exactly.
12 Q. And how long did you spend in that conversation with Mr.
14 A. Maybe two or three minutes, five at the most. We hadn't seen
15 each other for a long time, so we exchanged a few words about our common
16 things, things of our common interest.
17 Q. Very well. And now I would like us to move to a different topic,
18 which is fuel, the fuel that was used for the evacuation of the civilians
19 from Potocari. First of all, could you please look under tab 24 in your
20 binder, the documents 4D613 in e-court.
21 A. Yes, I've got it.
22 Q. Let's just wait for the B/C/S version to be brought up on
23 e-court. Can you please look at the second page because the first one
24 seems to be rather illegible. Yes. Very well, then. Let's look at the
25 document that is in front of us. Tell me, please, whether you already
1 had an occasion to see the document before.
2 A. Yes, I saw the document.
3 Q. And let's look at the heading. It is a document that the command
4 of the 1st Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade forwarded to the Drina Corps
5 command, and the date is the 2nd of July, 1995, in the document that is
6 in handwriting. However, it arises from the rest of the document that
7 this is for the period between the 1st of July and the 30th of July,
8 1995. Could you please explain what this is all about.
9 A. It is a mistake. The date should be the 3rd -- I apologise, the
10 2nd of August, 1995, because this is the account of the consumption of
11 fuel for the period starting with the 1st of July and ending with the
12 31st of July, so this could only be the 2nd of August of 1995, not the
13 2nd of July.
14 Q. Very well, and we can see this on the first page in the e-court
15 system. But since the copy is illegible, I decided to show the document
16 that is in handwriting.
17 Can you first, please, tell me if you wrote this document.
18 A. No, it wasn't me.
19 Q. And do you know who drafted the document?
20 A. Yes. The document was drafted by my traffic and transportation
21 assistant, the late Pavle Loncarevic, probably that day on the 2nd of
22 August. I wasn't there at the time when the report was supposed to be
23 done, so he did it on my behalf.
24 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Thayer.
25 MR. THAYER: Sorry to be a little slow to my feet, Mr. President.
1 I do have the original of that illegible typewritten document if my
2 friend wishes to show it, but I do have a copy of that, the original.
3 MR. LAZAREVIC: Well, I'm very grateful to my colleague. I also
4 have a copy. It is hardly legible, but it can be seen that it is dated
5 2nd of August, 1995. I don't think there is any dispute between the
6 Prosecution and the Defence.
7 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay, but can you proceed on the basis of what you
9 MR. LAZAREVIC: Yes, I think so.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Then let's go ahead.
11 MR. LAZAREVIC:
12 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Trisic, let's look at the document that you
13 have in front of you now. Under paragraph 2, it says "amounts of fuel
14 received in the course of the month." I'm interested in this entry that
15 is evidently the largest quantity of all that was received that month.
16 It's UNHCR D-2, 30.000 litres. Can you tell us what this is about?
17 A. This is a quantity of 32.000 litres of diesel fuel that we
18 received from the command of the DutchBat. That fuel was received from
19 the DutchBat command and given for the purpose of transporting Muslim
20 population from Bratunac to Tuzla
21 Q. Very well. Just so that I would have the information in the
22 transcript, we're talking about 30.000 litres of fuel, and that is
23 paragraph marked 2 in this report?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Very well. Can you now please tell me, these 30.000 litres of
1 fuel, where was the fuel stored?
2 A. The fuel was stored in the cistern of the Vihor transport company
3 in Bratunac, the 30.000 litres.
4 Q. Can you please tell me, how was the fuel replenished in the
5 vehicles that actually carried out the transport of the civilians from
7 A. The fuel was directly taken from the cistern and used to fill in
8 the buses that were transporting the Muslim population.
9 Q. Can you tell me, according to your best recollection, who
10 specifically participated in these activities to fill in the fuel tanks
11 of the buses that participated in the transport?
12 A. The immediate participants were people from the corps. Colonel
13 Krsmanovic was the clerk of the traffic and transportation service in the
14 corps, and at the time he was in Bratunac.
15 Q. And can you please tell me, who did you get this information
17 A. I got the information from my subordinate, the late Pavle
18 Loncarevic, clerk for transportation and traffic, who actually wrote this
20 Q. And was there any other place where the vehicles were filled with
21 fuel other than this Vihor depot that you talked about?
22 A. Yes. Since there was a large number of buses and one gas station
23 would not be able to serve all of them, a cistern came from the corps
24 carrying fuel, and it was parked at Vihor's parking-lot located at the
25 entrance to Bratunac from the direction of Milici and Vlasenica, and that
1 is where the fuel for the other number of the buses was used. The buses
2 filled in their fuel tanks from that cistern, the buses that we used in
3 the transportation of the Muslim civilians.
4 Q. Let's move to the next day, the 13th of July. Can you please
5 tell me where you were on the 13th of July?
6 A. On the 13th of July, of course, I was at the brigade command.
7 Q. Can you tell me that day generally, on the 13th of July, did you
8 have the opportunity to see Mr. Borovcanin on that day?
9 A. No. No, I didn't have the opportunity to see Mr. Borovcanin that
11 Q. And can you tell me approximately how long you stayed at the
12 brigade command? I'm talking about the 13th.
13 A. I didn't stay there for the customary time. Let's say in the
14 early afternoon hours, I was tired because the previous days I was very
15 busy, and because I was tired, I decided to leave early to my apartment
16 to rest.
17 Q. Was this around 7.00 in the evening, or...
18 A. Well, sometime there, maybe even earlier.
19 Q. Very well. And can you tell me where you spent the night?
20 A. As usual, I was at my apartment in the centre. I was resting.
21 Q. While you were still in Bratunac at the brigade command, did you
22 notice that anything significantly different was happening in Bratunac in
23 relation to the previous day?
24 A. No, no, nothing particularly important compared to the day
1 Q. Were the transports going on on that day as well?
2 A. Yes, yes.
3 Q. Well, you already said that you were tired, you went to lie down
4 to sleep. At any point in time, did you find out that on the 13th of
5 July in the evening a large number of Muslim prisoners were brought to
6 Bratunac and they spent that night in the school in buses and in other
7 places in Bratunac?
8 A. Yes, but I found out about that the next day. I even found out
9 about it from my sons who told me that in the evening, or rather, in the
10 morning. And of course, I found out about it at the brigade command.
11 Q. When you found this out, were there still any Muslim prisoners of
12 war in Bratunac, or was that after they had already left on the 14th?
13 A. Yes, they had already left. The transport had already been
15 Q. In the night of the 13th when you were in your apartment, did you
16 perhaps hear any shooting?
17 A. I can say that I didn't notice anything in particular. Anything
18 that I might have heard was the usual things. Sometimes soldiers fire
19 without any control, so I don't think that I heard anything that was
21 Q. Very well. Let me ask you this: Do you have any information
22 about an incident happening at the farmer's cooperative in Kravica on the
23 13th of July, 1995, when a large number of Muslim prisoners of war lost
24 their lives?
25 A. Yes, I do have information about this. I heard about it after it
1 happened, of course.
2 Q. How much later, approximately, if you can tell me?
3 A. Well, I can't really tell whether it was that day or the
4 following day, most probably.
5 Q. And can you tell me, what did you hear about what had happened
7 A. I heard that military police officer or that a Muslim had
8 attacked a military policeman, grabbed his rifle, and killed him. The
9 other policeman reacted and tried to prevent the Muslims from escaping,
10 who tried to run away after that incident, and then there was shooting
11 and then, of course, naturally there were some dead as a result of that.
12 Q. Just tell me one more thing about this. Was this all that you
13 heard about that incident? Do you have any other information about that
14 other than what you were told or what you heard from somebody else?
15 A. No, I don't have any other information. That would be it.
16 Q. And can you tell me, you mentioned here a military policeman.
17 Are you sure that he was a military policeman, or...
18 A. I'm not sure. When you say policeman, I'm not sure. I'm not
20 Q. Very well. Let us now move to the next day, the 14th of July.
21 Can you tell me what you did on the 14th of July? Can you tell me
22 something about what your activities were?
23 A. Well, I'm describing just regular activities, what I did every
24 day, regular activities, regular daily activities.
25 Q. On the 14th of July, you as assistant commander for logistics,
1 were you contacted by anybody about the use of resources of the Bratunac
2 Brigade in order to dig any graves?
3 A. No, nobody engaged me on anything like that.
4 Q. And tell me whether if at any point in time you learned that the
5 bodies of those killed in the Kravica farmer's cooperative were buried in
6 a grave in the village of Glogova
7 A. Yes. I did have that information a day or two afterwards. I
8 found out from my friend who was engaged on that task that the burial was
9 completed of those who were killed in the Glogova village section.
10 Q. You as the assistant for logistics, were you asked to provide
11 vehicles in order to transport the bodies of the dead from the farmer's
12 cooperative to the grave site in Glogova?
13 A. No. This was not asked of me since we didn't have vehicles in
14 the brigade that would be suitable for such an assignment.
15 MR. LAZAREVIC: Very well. [In English] If I could ask for a
16 moment to take a break because we are moving to some other topic, and
17 these are documents that are related one to each other.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: No. We need to continue for the next 15 minutes,
19 and then we have the break at 12.30. Thank you.
20 MR. LAZAREVIC: All right. I will proceed then.
21 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Trisic, I would like to move to the next
22 batch of documents that we are going to analyse. First of all, I would
23 like to look at document -- let me just look. That would be tab 25 in
24 your binder, and it's document P239.
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. [No interpretation]
2 First, tell me if you had the opportunity to see this document
4 A. Yes, I have seen it before.
5 Q. Can you tell me, whose handwriting is it here?
6 A. This is my handwriting. This is my handwriting.
7 Q. And let's establish that this is a daily combat report for the
8 12th of July, 1995. Can you tell me how this document came about?
9 A. Yes. That day I came to the brigade command, to the operations
10 room to write a logistics report for the corps. The duty operations
11 officer was Major Eskic, and it was a bit busy, and because of that he
12 asked me to take some paper and to write this report myself. He
13 dictated, I wrote, and the report was then handed over to be delivered to
14 the corps command. And you can see on the page that it was signed by
15 Dragomir Eskic, Major.
16 Q. All right. And now let us just look at the first two paragraphs
17 of the document. The first paragraph states: "During the day, the enemy
18 tried to break through or withdraw from the enclave in the
19 Milacevici-Jaglici-Bokcin-Potok direction further on towards Tuzla and
20 Kladanj." And then it says: "Our forces are mopping up the enclave" --
21 actually, it says here: "Our forces are carrying out an attack on the
22 column..." And then that's erased, and it says: "...are mopping up the
23 enclave and preventing the enemy from breaking through in the
24 above-mentioned direction."
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. And can you please tell us now, what I just read, does this
2 precisely reflect the activities of the Bratunac Brigade on the 12th of
3 July, 1995?
4 A. Yes. It reflects the activities of the Bratunac Brigade from the
5 12th of July and on the subsequent days. It was mostly to prevent the
6 breakthrough of the forces from Srebrenica towards Kladanj and Tuzla
7 Q. Very well, then. Let's move on to the following document, which
8 is on the tab 26 in your binder. It is 4DP245. Do you have it in front
9 of you? If you do, just let's hold on a little and wait for it to appear
10 in e-court. This is a wrong document. The document that I would like to
11 present is 4DP245.
12 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please say the number in
14 MR. LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] The English version is all right.
15 I apologise. [In English] 4DP245. [Interpretation] And could we please
16 -- thank you very much. That's it. Thank you.
17 Q. This is, again, a daily combat report by the command of the 1st
18 Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade, and the date is 13th July, 1995. Let's
19 look at bullet points 1 and 2 in this document first. Under 1, it says
20 that the enemy is completely crushed and is trying to escape in groups in
21 the direction of the village of Milacevic and Konjevic Polje. During the
22 search of the wider area of villages of Milacevici and Babuljica, our
23 forces did not meet any resistance. A large enemy group has been
24 successfully encircled in the area of Konjevic-Polje-Kasaba-Pobulce.
25 Under 2, it says that "the main forces of the Bratunac Brigade continue
1 to search the terrain in the ordered direction of
2 Ravni-Buljim-Zvijezda-Siljato brdo." It also says that some of the
3 forces are engaged in crushing enemy forces which have retreated to the
4 aforementioned area.
5 Tell me, please, now that we have seen this daily combat report,
6 does it reflect what on 13 of July were the main activities of the
7 Bratunac Brigade?
8 A. Yes, this report does reflect the situation and activities of the
9 Bratunac Brigade on the 13th of July.
10 Q. Very well. Let's look at next document, which is P246, and in
11 your binder it is under tab 27. Again, let's just wait for the English
12 version of the document to appear on the screen.
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. We can see that this document is an interim combat report which
15 was sent by the command of the 1st Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade to the
16 command of the Drina Corps on the 13th of July, 1995. And we can see
17 that a unit consisting of 92 soldiers led by the Chief of Staff was
18 dispatched to the Bracan sector. Is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. How were the 92 soldiers transported to the Bracan sector?
21 A. This unit was transported in our buses that we had in the
23 Q. Were they the same two buses that we have already spoken about?
24 A. Yes, precisely so. Those were the two buses because those were
25 the only two buses that we had at our disposal in the brigade.
1 Q. And just one more thing I'd like to ask you. On that day, were
2 the buses used for the transport of civilians from Potocari?
3 A. No, they could not be used for that because we had to have them
4 at a ready to transport this unit to perform the following task.
5 Q. Very well. I would like us to look at another document. In your
6 binder, it's 28. It is 4D88. I believe we have the time before the
7 break to analyse this document.
8 Again, this is a regular combat report sent by the command of the
9 1st Bratunac Brigade sent to the command of the Drina Corps. Let's look
10 at number 1 where it says that "a small part of enemy forces is still
11 surrounded in the area of Bokcin-Potok-Sitjkovici-Mratinci..." And then
12 under 2, it says: "Our forces are searching and clearing the terrain in
13 accordance with order strictly confidential number ..." and I don't want
14 to mention the whole number, and "... part of the forces is participating
15 from our side in the encirclement of enemy forces under item 1."
16 I would like to draw attention to another part of this order
17 where it's a -- of this report where it says that "the Crvna Beretka or
18 the Red Berets platoon was sent at 1000 hours to the area of Milici to
19 join the task in the direction of Zepa."
20 First of all, does this document reflect the activities of the
21 Bratunac Brigade on the 14th of July, 1995?
22 A. Yes. It does reflect the tasks of the brigade on the 14th of
24 Q. Now, I would like to ask for a clarification, the Red Berets
25 platoon is mentioned here. What was that? What was that platoon in the
1 Bratunac Brigade?
2 A. That was a platoon, a unit for interventions. We refer to it as
3 an intervention platoon, and we also call it the Red Berets.
4 Q. Was that part of the Bratunac Brigade?
5 A. Yes, they were on the strength of the Bratunac Brigade.
6 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. I think we can take the break now. It will
7 be usual 25 minutes.
8 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
9 --- Recess taken at 12.31 p.m.
10 --- On resuming at 12.59 p.m.
11 JUDGE AGIUS: So the entire bench is present now. We can
12 proceed, Mr. Lazarevic.
13 MR. LAZAREVIC: Thank you, Your Honour.
14 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Trisic, first of all, let us go back to some
15 detail from your testimony so far. We looked at the transcript and some
16 of your answers which need some slight clarifications. When you were
17 talking about the presence of the members of the corps military police in
18 Potocari on 12th of July, you meant General Krstic's escorts; is that
20 A. Yes. In my mind, that was corps police. I don't know how many
21 of them were there. I could not be the Judge of that.
22 Q. And now, a clarification of another answer of yours about Kravica
23 and what you heard. There were some dilemmas here whether those were
24 military police or not. Was somebody who died in the Kravica warehouse,
25 was one of them Krstov Dragecevic [phoen], a member of the special police
1 from Skelani?
2 A. Yes, I know that. Maybe I did not put it in so many words, but
3 you are right.
4 Q. Now, I would like to continue where we left off. I'm going to
5 try and bring your testimony to an end, your examination-in-chief, that
6 is. Let's go to 4D595, which is number 29 in your binder. This is a
7 document that was sent from Bratunac from Colonel Ignatovic to the
8 command of the Drina Corps on the 15th of July, 1995. Do you have the
9 document in front of you, sir?
10 A. Yes, I do.
11 Q. And now you can see in the part of the document where it says
12 "I've ordered..." bullet point number 4. It says here that the Bratunac
13 Light Infantry Brigade will continue scouring the terrain and the
14 clearing of the battlefield on the axis Bratunac-Konjevic-Polje-Kasaba
15 and so on and so forth. I would like us, also, to look at the part where
16 it says "Proposal," and it says here that the commander of the 1st
17 Bratunac Brigade should be authorised and appointed the commander of all
18 the forces on the ground that were participating in the scouring of the
19 ground and the clearing of the battlefield east of the road, and in
20 brackets it says "and around the road from Kasaba to Drinjaca" because
21 from the command of the Drina Corps there is nobody to be sent for that
22 person. And it says, "Furthermore, if you agree with the proposal under
23 1, please confirm this by telegram sent to the command of the 1st
24 Bratunac brigade, the first Milici brigade, and to the centre of security
25 centre in Zvornik. "The abbreviation is CSB.
1 Based on this document that we have just seen and that we're
2 looking at, tell me, please, what was the proposal? Who was to be
3 appointed the commander of all the forces that were participating in the
4 scouring of the terrain?
5 A. In the proposal under 1 it says that the commander of the forces
6 should be Colonel Blagojevic. That was the proposal.
7 Q. Thank you. Let's move on to the next document, which is yours,
8 30, and in e-court this is P254. Do you have it in front of you, sir?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Again, this is a regular combat report sent by the command of the
11 1st Bratunac Brigade to the command of the Drina Corps, and we can see
12 that it was also sent to the forward command post of the Drina Corps.
13 The date is 15 July. Let's look at items 1 and 2 first. It says here
14 "strong enemy forces in front of P/K." Can you explain the abbreviation
16 A. I can't tell you the meaning of this P/K.
17 Q. It says that "The 4th infantry battalion on the brigade's right
18 flank are carrying out combat activities and regrouping in the direction
19 of Konjevic Polje and further on." Under 2, it says: "Our forces are
20 still searching the terrain in accordance with your strictly confidential
21 order..." so and so "...dated 13 July 1995, and they are currently on the
22 Lupoglav-Susnjari-Prijanska-Kosa..." and it says here -- yes,
23 Prijanska-Kosa. This is what it says, and so on and so forth.
24 "...Viogor village and Bojna village line, and part of our forces has
25 been sent to the area of the Zvornik Light Infantry Brigade," in
1 brackets, "80 soldiers." And also, a reference is made to sending one
2 part of the forces to the second Romanija motorised brigade, and also, a
3 general mobilisation for compulsory labour has been ordered.
4 Please tell me --
5 MR. LAZAREVIC: If we can split here in transcript on page 67,
6 line 20, my question starts with "it says that the 4th infantry
7 battalion..." So answer and question are not divided.
8 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Right. We will attend to that later on with
9 the persons responsible for the transcript.
10 MR. LAZAREVIC:
11 Q. [Interpretation] In keeping with this document, what would have
12 been the tasks that the Bratunac Brigade had on that day, on the 15th of
14 A. Well, the forces of the Bratunac Brigade were still engaged in
15 searching the terrain, in keeping with the corps' orders. They were on
16 the line; that is specified in the document, so the tasks were unchanged:
17 Searching the terrain, scouring the terrain, and discovering enemy
19 Q. Very well. Let's move on to the next document, which is yours,
20 31, or 4DP255. Do you have the document in front of you?
21 A. Yes, I do.
22 Q. In the first part of this document, which is another daily combat
23 report of the command of the 1st Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade dated 16
24 July 1995, and in the upper part of the document under 2 -- or rather, 1,
25 there's a reference to the sector where the Bratunac Brigade is
1 performing its activities and clearing the terrain. But what I'm
2 interested in is the bottom part of the document. I would like to draw
3 attention to it. It says here: "The commander of the brigade in the
4 course of the day inspected all the units that were blocking the enemy
5 withdrawal..." and in brackets it says, "the Milici brigade, units of
6 the 65th protection motorised regiment, parts of the MUP, and the 5th
7 [Realtime translation read in error, "6th"] Engineering Battalion." And
8 he also defined their tasks and organised their joint action and
10 Just a correction in transcript. It was the 5th engineering
11 battalion rather than the 6th as it is recorded in the transcript.
12 Tell me, please, when you look at this document dated the 16th of
13 July, what was the main task of the commander of the Bratunac Brigade
14 based on this daily combat report?
15 A. He coordinated the activities of these units in carrying out the
16 remaining tasks of the corps command.
17 Q. Tell us now, when we think back of the document by Colonel
18 Ignatovic whereby he proposes that the commander of the Bratunac Brigade
19 be appointed as the overall commander for the units engaged in scouring
20 the terrain, can you see a connection between this document and that one?
21 A. From this document, I can see that they have actually implemented
22 the order of Colonel Ignatovic, and that Colonel Blagojevic is carrying
23 out those tasks.
24 Q. All right. Let us look at the next document. That's under tab
25 32, and in the e-court system it is 4D596 of the 17th -- 16th --
1 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: 16th July 1995.
2 MR. LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation]
3 Q. -- also sent from the command of the Bratunac Light Infantry
4 Brigade, entitled "Reinforcement With Military Police Units." This
5 document was sent to the Drina Corps command. What I would like you to
6 take a look at is the following part: Colonel Blagojevic is asking or
7 requesting the corps support in sending military police in order to
8 ensure the security of Srebrenica and so on and so forth, but on the
9 second page of this document where it says "brigade units are engaged in
10 searching the terrain, discovering and destroying enemy groups in the
11 area of responsibility of the brigade and beyond," and it also says "part
12 of brigade units are engaged..." and then in brackets it says "(400 men)
13 on four different locations..." and the locations are mentioned as Zepa,
14 Trnovo, Pjenovac, Zvornik, "...the most qualified personnel."
15 Now, tell me. Based on this document, can we see what parts --
16 where the parts of the Bratunac Brigade, where they were engaged in this
17 area of responsibility?
18 A. Well, we can see that the most qualified men were engaged in Zepa
19 Trnovo, Pjenovac, and Zvornik areas.
20 Q. In addition to these 400 men as stated here, where were the other
21 men of the Bratunac Brigade on the 16th?
22 A. They were in Bratunac municipality.
23 Q. All right. Let's take a look at the next document, tab 33. This
24 is Exhibit --or document 4D5262 in the e-court system. This is a regular
25 combat report of the Bratunac Brigade command for the 18th of July, 1995
1 Let's just wait a moment for the document to appear in -- on our screens.
2 THE REGISTRAR: Could counsel repeat the exhibit number, please.
3 MR. LAZAREVIC: 4DP262.
4 Q. [Interpretation] All right. We have it. Now, let's just take at
5 item 2 of this document. The 3rd and 4th infantry battalions are
6 referred to under item 2. Could you tell us what their assignments were
7 on the 18th of July?
8 A. They were still engaged in searching the terrain in the area of
9 Pobuda, Hrncici, and Konjevic Polje.
10 Q. All right. Let's take a look at the next document right away.
11 This is document under tab 34. This is documents 4DP263. Can you see it
12 in front of you?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. All right. So this is a daily combat report by the 1st Bratunac
15 Light Infantry Brigade for the 19th of July, 1995. Would you please look
16 at paragraph 2 beginning with the words "our units continue to hunt and
17 destroy enemy groups" -- "straggling enemy groups..." And speaking of
18 the 19th, could you tell us the area of deployment of the Bratunac Light
19 Infantry Brigade battalions?
20 A. From this report for the 19th, we can see that the 1st infantry
21 battalion was engaged in the general area of Zepa, together with the
22 brigade commander. The 2nd infantry brigade was involved in searching
23 the terrain in Gornji Potocari, Bljeceva, and Cizmici and Bacuta; and the
24 third infantry battalion was searched the road between Glogova and
25 Konjevic Polje. The 4th infantry battalion was returned-- or reattached
1 to the first Zvornik Light Infantry Brigade, but we do not know under
2 whose orders. In other words, it was no longer part of the Bratunac
4 Q. All right. So from this document, we can see the situation in
5 the field in the area of responsibility of the Bratunac Brigade on the
6 19th of July, 1995; is that correct?
7 A. Yes. Let's take a look at the next document. That's under tab
8 35 in your binder, and it is connected to the previous document, this is
9 document 4DP.
10 THE INTERPRETER: Could the counsel please repeat the number.
11 MR. LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] 4D592. [In English] 4D592.
12 Q. While we are waiting for the document to appear on the screens,
13 let us say that this is a document relating to the situation -- or the
14 status of combat readiness in the 1st Bratunac Light Infantry Brigade.
15 The date is 19 July 1995
16 commander, and if we take a look at the second page, we can find the
17 author of this document. Perhaps you can tell us?
18 A. Yes. This is the assistant to the Chief of Staff, Dragoljub
19 Beskic [phoen].
20 Q. If we analyse this document, we can see that the 1st, 2nd, and
21 3rd infantry battalions are referred to; and the facts or the data that
22 you can see in this document, do they reflect the situation as it was in
23 the field on the 19th of July, 1995, in respect of the use or employment
24 of the infantry battalions of the Bratunac Brigade?
25 A. Yes. For the most part, it reflects the actual deployment or
1 employment of the battalions of the Bratunac Brigade except for the 4th
2 Battalion, which was at this time not part of the brigade.
3 Q. All right. Let's take a look at the next Exhibit that's under
4 number 36. This is document -- or Exhibit P265. While we are waiting
5 for it to appear in our e-court system, to say that this is a regular
6 combat report of the 1st Bratunac Brigade for the 20th of July, 1995
7 I would like you to look at paragraph 2 of this document.
8 Can you tell us, it says here that our units continue to destroy
9 enemy forces in the area of Konjevic Polje and Pobuda. Can you tell us
10 whether this, actually, whether this is consistent with the activities of
11 the Bratunac Brigade on the 20th of July, 1995?
12 A. Yes. This reflects the situation as it was in the field.
13 Q. Thank you very much. I have no further questions about this
14 topic. But I would now like to put some questions regarding the last
15 topic that I have, and this is war booty. First of all, I would like us
16 to pull out the document that is under tab 37, and in the e-court, it is
18 Can you see the document before you?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. This is an order. In the heading, it says "Republika Srpska Main
21 Staff," and if we look at the last page of this document, we can see that
22 this was the commander of the Main Staff. He was the one who issued this
23 order. The date on the document is 21st July, 1995.
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. This document deals with the establishment of a team to -- which
1 is to be engaged in clearing out the terrain and establishing normal
2 conditions for the population. Under item 2 --
3 THE INTERPRETER: Under item 1, interpreter's correction.
4 MR. LAZAREVIC:
5 Q. [Interpretation] -- mention is made of who makes up the
6 commission. If you look under 2, you can see under the last item here is
7 the Bratunac Brigade PKP or assistant commander for logistics. Is that
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Can you tell me, did you ever take part in the work of this
12 A. No, I did not because I was -- we never met. We never met in
13 this -- we never met as -- with the members of the commission as such.
14 Q. All right. Let's look at this document, the next page, 3.7. Can
15 you see, who is made responsible for the implementation of the tasks as
16 mentioned in this document? Could you please tell us who is responsible
17 for the implementation?
18 A. Well, it says here that it is the commander of the Drina Corps of
19 the Bratunac Brigade, the independent battalion Skelani, the presence of
20 the municipal councils of Bratunac, Skelani, Milici.
21 Q. All right. Now, if we look -- all right. Now we can see that
22 everything that you've said is in the transcript. Now, if we look at
23 paragraph 3.8. I wanted to briefly discuss it with you. Could you tell
24 us in keeping with this paragraph 3.8 who was responsible to report to
25 the commander of the Main Staff relating to enabling normal living
2 A. Pursuant to this answer, we can see that this was Colonel Lazar
3 Acamovic who was the assistant commander for logistics, and he was to
4 report once a week on the outcome of their efforts and what happened on
5 that far in enabling normal conditions of life in Srebrenica and
6 surrounding places, so the responsible person was Lazar Acamovic.
7 Q. We have -- I have been notified that we have a slight problem
8 with the last answer that you gave regarding paragraph 3.7. Could you
9 please repeat slowly, who was responsible for carrying out this task to
10 the commander of the Main Staff as reflected in this document; but
11 please, take your time so that we ensure that everything in the
13 A. All right. Well, we can see in paragraph 3.7 that the
14 responsible individuals for carrying out this task were the commander of
15 the Drina Corps, the command of the Bratunac Brigade, the commander of
16 the independent battalion in Skelani, and the presidents of the municipal
17 assemblies of Srebrenica, Bratunac, Skelani, and Milici.
18 Q. All right. Now, let's take a look at paragraph 9 of this order.
19 Can you tell me when you look at this paragraph what the competencies of
20 the president of this commission, Colonel Acamovic, were, and who was he
21 to address directly if there were any things that needed to be clarified?
22 A. In item 9, we can see that Colonel Acamovic, the president of
23 this commission, had all the necessary powers to implement the assigned
24 tasks. It is also stated that the Drina Corps command would provide a
25 squad of military police, and for any issues that are unclear, that he
1 may contact directly -- he may contact him directly.
2 Q. All right. Can we now look at the last document that I wanted to
3 -- that I wanted you to see and comment on during this
4 examination-in-chief. This is a document under tab 38, and this would be
5 4D614 in e-court. Let us just wait for it to appear on the screens.
6 Here we have it. Let's just wait for the English version as well.
7 Mr. Trisic, have you already had the opportunity to look at this
9 A. Yes, I did.
10 Q. Can you tell me if you personally drafted this document?
11 A. Yes, I did.
12 Q. Can you tell me what this document is about? What is the topic
13 of this report?
14 A. You can see from the document that we informed the corps command
15 about the assembled MTS, the materiel from the former Srebrenica enclave;
16 so from 1 to 9, the materiel and equipment is listed. I also pointed out
17 that the information about the cattle is not available and that this
18 information can be obtained from the military farm that actually got the
19 cattle together.
20 Q. Just one more thing about this document: Who told you this? Did
21 you have an order to draft this document, or did you do it on your own
23 A. It says here that this was required from the corps, and under
24 18140 from the 23rd of July, the corps required us to provide them with
25 this information, and then the next day we did send this information
1 about the gathered materiel and equipment in Srebrenica.
2 Q. All right. Let me just ask you this: The materiel and equipment
3 that is referred to - generator, a cistern, a tent - to whom did this
4 equipment belong?
5 A. The equipment belonged to the Dutch battalion. We took the
6 equipment along the lines of separation where these equipment and
7 materiel was abandoned by soldiers of the Dutch battalion, except under
8 Article -- item 1, the personnel carrier which was actually directly
9 driven to the brigade command by the soldiers of the Dutch battalion who
10 were leaving the Srebrenica territory, and they surrendered directly to
11 the Bratunac Brigade.
12 MR. LAZAREVIC: [Interpretation] Very well. I thank you, Mr.
13 Trisic. I have no further questions in my examination-in-chief.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Zivanovic.
16 MR. ZIVANOVIC: Thank you.
17 Cross-examination by Mr. Zivanovic:
18 Q. [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. Trisic.
19 A. Good afternoon.
20 Q. My name is Zoran Zivanovic. In this case, I am defending Vujadin
22 Mr. Trisic, you spoke here about a document about the order for
23 active combat of the 2nd of July, 1995. That is 4D378. So I'm now going
24 to ask you to give us some clarifications in relation to that document.
25 Can we look at that document, please. You said that you received this
1 document at the brigade on the 5th of July, 1995, so can you just
2 clarify: At the time when you received the document, was it just this
3 typewritten text without any corrections by hand which you identified
4 later on pages 5 and 6 of this document?
5 A. Yes. It was just the typed document.
6 Q. You saw -- my colleague Mr. Lazarevic showed you pages 5 and 6 of
7 this document, and you saw that there was some corrections made by hand.
8 This is page 5 and in e-court, as well, pages 5 and 6 in e-court.
9 We can stay on page 5. I don't know if you can find it in your
10 tabs; otherwise, just please look at the screen.
11 A. It's fine.
12 Q. Can you please tell me, you identified the handwriting in the
13 upper margin as the handwriting of Captain Momir Nikolic; is that
15 A. Yes, that's correct.
16 Q. And you were personally there when he wrote that?
17 A. I recognise the handwriting.
18 Q. Do you know when he wrote this?
19 A. Probably on the day when we received the document in question.
20 Q. Did I understand you correctly, that all of you discussed this
21 document together, the entire command of the Bratunac Brigade, that is?
22 A. Yes. The commander informed us about this document.
23 Q. And at that time, was it then at that time that these corrections
24 were made?
25 A. Well, we had to do that individually.
1 Q. Can you please tell me, how does that look when you do it
2 individually? Does everyone have their own copy of the document, or were
3 you all together when you were doing this?
4 A. No. Usually, we would split the document so everybody would get
5 the part that refers to them.
6 Q. Does that mean that on page 6 of the same document, these
7 corrections made by hand were made by someone else and not by Momir
9 A. On page 6?
10 Q. Yes, the following page.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Can you look?
13 A. Yes, yes.
14 Q. Do you know who did that?
15 A. I did that.
16 Q. Did you enter all of these corrections?
17 A. No.
18 Q. Can you identify the corrections that were not made by you?
19 A. I can. On page 5 at the top, this was done, I believe, like I
20 said, by Momir Nikolic. Then item (e), engineer's support, I can't tell
21 whose handwriting that is, and so on.
22 Q. Do you know perhaps -- while we are looking at page 2, can you
23 tell or do you know who crossed out some parts of this section on page 5?
24 This is in paragraphs 2 and 3.
25 A. Well, it would be logical that this would have been done by
1 Captain Nikolic.
2 Q. What about the left and the right margins of the document? Do
3 you recognise his handwriting, perhaps, there with the words "no"?
4 A. You can see that this was written by the same type of pen, a kind
5 of felt-tipped pen or a marker.
6 Q. I wanted to ask you something else now. Can you tell me what the
7 significance was of crossing out the text and entering the written text
8 in the upper -- or the top margin of this document?
9 A. It was actually adapting the corps's order to our circumstances
10 and to our subordinate units.
11 Q. And was that in the nature of a proposal or it already had the
12 nature of an order, what was written by hand in this document?
13 A. Once this is typed out and is signed by the commander, then it is
14 an order.
15 Q. As you can see, it is crossed out here. Can you read the text
16 that has been crossed out? I think it's two sentences.
17 A. "The security organs and the military police will determine the
18 assembly sectors and the guard for the prisoners of war and the war
19 booty." Well, there's one more sentence a little bit lower.
20 Q. Yes. Can you read that?
21 A. "The security organs will pass on to the subordinate commands and
22 inform them about the application of the security measures in the area of
23 the combat actions."
24 Q. Thank you. Can you tell me, do you know if this text perhaps was
25 included in the order by the Bratunac Brigade commander? I will remind
1 you, this is document 3025. You can look on page 5, paragraph 3 and that
3 A. I'm sorry. Just give me a moment. I have to find it.
4 Q. Well, perhaps that can also be seen here. Well, I think. Let me
5 see. Let's look at it here on the screen. Paragraph 3 in the English
6 text, that is also on page 5, and it's item 10, the paragraph -- the last
7 but one paragraph.
8 A. "The area where the prisoners of war and war booty will assemble
9 is the Pribicevac area, and in the treatment of prisoners of war, adhere
10 at all points to the Geneva Conventions."
11 Q. Yes, that is what I meant. Can we look at the last page of that
12 document, although I think that you've already seen it because it was
13 signed by the commander of the then brigade, Blagojevic.
14 What I wanted to ask you, though, is whether we can note that the
15 security organs and the military police were omitted here in this
16 paragraph that you have just read out?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. Thank you. I would just now like to go back to another thing
19 here. You said that on the 12th of July, you saw Momir Nikolic
20 communicating with the military police officers in Potocari. You
21 remember that answer?
22 A. Yes, yes. I said that.
23 Q. Tell me, please, were you standing together with them, or did you
24 see them from a distance?
25 A. Well, as you say, from a distance. I was close by. I wasn't
1 standing with them, but I was standing to the side.
2 Q. Well, this is what I wanted to say: What was that distance
3 approximately? Can you answer?
4 A. Well, I don't know. 7, 8, 10 metres.
5 Q. And from that distance, 7, 8, 10 metres, were you able to hear
6 what they were talking about amongst themselves?
7 A. No.
8 MR. ZIVANOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. Thank you. I have no
9 further questions.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you. Ms. Nikolic, are you going to
11 cross-examine this witness?
12 MS. NIKOLIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. I'm going to
13 require 15 minutes to half an hour. Thank you.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Let's do the rounds so that we'll know
15 exactly where we stand. Ms. Fauveau?
16 MS. FAUVEAU: [Interpretation] About 15 minutes, Mr. President.
17 JUDGE AGIUS: Mr. Ostojic?
18 MR. OSTOJIC: Same, Your Honour. 20 minutes, about.
19 JUDGE AGIUS: Same. Mr. Krgovic?
20 MR. GOSNELL: 20 minutes, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. And Mr. Sarapa?
22 MR. SARAPA: 15 minutes.
23 JUDGE AGIUS: All right. Okay. So that roughly gives you an
24 idea where you are. Mr. Thayer, I think more or less the major part of
25 -- the main part of tomorrow's first session will be in the hands of the
1 Defence teams, and then you will proceed with yours. Do you still
2 require two hours?
3 MR. THAYER: I think I will, Mr. President. I'll have to take a
4 look as I go through my material tonight.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you.
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.45 p.m.
7 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 21st day of
8 October, 2008, at 9.00 a.m.