Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 19387

1 Thursday, 31 May 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

5 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Registrar, please call the

6 case.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Good afternoon,

8 everyone. This is case number IT-04-74-T, the Prosecutor versus Prlic et

9 al. Thank you.

10 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,

11 Mr. Registrar.

12 I'd like to greet on this Thursday the 31st of May everyone here

13 in the courtroom, the Prosecution, the Defence, the accused, and all of

14 the people assisting us here. I'm going to given the floor to the

15 registrar for a few IC numbers.

16 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you very much, Your Honours.

17 Several parties have submitted lists of documents to be tendered

18 through Witness Rudy Gerritsen. The list submitted by 2D will be IC 588,

19 while the list submitted by 3D shall be given the Exhibit number IC 589

20 under seal.

21 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much,

22 Mr. Registrar.

23 We'll now continue the cross-examination of the witness who

24 testified in closed session. Therefore, we'll now move into closed

25 session. Please draw down the blinds.

Page 19388

1 [Closed session]

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 (redacted)

15 (redacted)

16 (redacted)

17 (redacted)

18 (redacted)

19 (redacted)

20 (redacted)

21 (redacted)

22 (redacted)

23 (redacted)

24 (redacted)

25 (redacted)

Page 19389











11 Pages 19389-19446 redacted. Closed session















Page 19447

1 (redacted)

2 (redacted)

3 (redacted)

4 (redacted)

5 (redacted)

6 (redacted)

7 (redacted)

8 (redacted)

9 (redacted)

10 (redacted)

11 (redacted)

12 (redacted)

13 (redacted)

14 [Open session]

15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Let's talk about the schedule

16 for next week. As you know, we're going to have a hearing on Monday

17 afternoon. It's a week where we should be sitting in the morning, but on

18 Tuesday, the 5th of June, we won't be sitting in the morning but in the

19 afternoon because of something related to a witness. Therefore, we'll be

20 sitting in the afternoon on Tuesday and in the morning on Wednesday and

21 Thursday. But I'm being told just now that there is no one on Monday.

22 What's going on, Mr. Scott? You're always telling us you need a

23 lot of time and there's no one on Monday.

24 MR. SCOTT: No, Your Honour there is not, and I'd indicated that

25 to some -- to everyone and to some of the staff at various occasions.

Page 19448

1 Because of various -- we indicated to the Chamber before, it's often very

2 difficult to fit witnesses into four half-days in a week when you talk

3 about people travelling long distances. When we schedule the witness who

4 could only come on Tuesday afternoon, it was impossible to find a witness

5 that would only fit into Monday afternoon. It's impossible to have a

6 four-hour witness for cross-examination and redirect. It's never

7 happened; couldn't do it. So, as I've informed everyone, including the

8 counsel, and I believe including your staff, there is no witness on

9 Monday. And the witness will start at 2.15 on Tuesday, and then we'll go

10 back into morning sessions on Wednesday and Thursday. Thank you.

11 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Fine.

12 Mr. Kovacic, briefly.

13 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just two minutes, if I

14 may, for a brief submission.

15 Yesterday, the Prosecution submitted a document entitled "Request

16 to reply to the Defence responses to the Prosecution's motion for the

17 admission into evidence of the transcripts of Slobodan Praljak's evidence

18 in the case of Prosecutor versus Naletilic and Martinovic,".

19 [In English] Your Honour, as a procedural point we note that

20 despite the fact this request is entitled request to reply, it is plain

21 from reading the submission that there is no request for relief of the

22 Chamber to file the reply as required by Rule 126 bis. Instead, the

23 submission is only a reply. Accordingly, this submission should be

24 ignored as it does not conform to the rules and to all procedure and

25 evidence of the Tribunal. I'm simply not in the position to write

Page 19449

1 something on that because it is simply not foreseen by the rules, and that

2 is why I'm just asking you to note that it -- that this document is not

3 submitted as it should under the rules.

4 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] Mr. Scott.

5 MR. SCOTT: Your Honour, that's not the case and the pleading

6 speaks for itself and everyone can read it. It is titled, "A Request,"

7 and it's asked for request and it's in the first paragraph of the document

8 to respond to points raised for the first time in the response by the

9 Defence. It says so right on the front of the document. We think there

10 are -- there are important points that the Chamber should consider, and we

11 do ask in this instance to receive our reply. We don't always file

12 replies and we know the Chamber's policy on that but it's very brief and

13 it's directly responsive to issues -- arguments that the Defence have

14 raised and we think the Chamber should have our reply. Thank you.

15 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] The Chamber will consider the

16 issue.

17 Mr. Kovacic, briefly, I see that you're raising the issue of the

18 hard copy binders. I believe that you wanted us to work with the e-court

19 system, but I absolutely disagree, because we need the documents. I can't

20 use the e-court system whilst the witness is there answering a question,

21 because if I have the binders, I can immediately consult the documents and

22 control what is being said, and thus avoiding mistakes. I don't know what

23 my fellow Judges think about it, but as far as I'm concerned we are going

24 to continue using binders.

25 MR. KOVACIC: [Interpretation] There must be some misunderstanding.

Page 19450

1 I'm not raising that question at all, Your Honour. Just like all the

2 other Defence teams, for each witness we prepared eight binders which were

3 handed out as requested and agreed upon. However, the CLSS service last

4 night sent an e-mail to all the Defence teams asking them to provide the

5 binders for the interpretation service, which we do when we have time and

6 means to do so and when we have documents to read out. Unfortunately, we

7 can't do that all the time. We'd be very happy to do it, but we just

8 haven't got the means. And so last night when I received this e-mail, I

9 sent a lengthy reply because the interpretation service has asked us to

10 increase this vast photocopying industry by 50 per cent, because if we

11 have eight binders for the courtroom, and I agree with you they really are

12 necessary for practical reasons otherwise we have to take e-court, which

13 takes the amount of time it takes. Now we would have to provide four

14 additional sets for interpretation. I agree that they would need it, but

15 it's a problem which surpasses my means. Thank you.

16 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] I know that you're doing your

17 utmost, but of course if one day you need the perfect translation of one

18 document that is extremely important for you, please make sure that the

19 translation department gets that document.

20 I would like to thank you for all the efforts you do for the way

21 you present these binders to us. It allows us to save time and work more

22 efficiently.

23 Just a few more minutes to deal with the following issue: We are

24 conducting these proceedings at a regular pace. It's rarely happened for

25 us to have to not sit, except for next Monday, but that's an exception.

Page 19451

1 If we follow the same pace, we'll come to the end of the Prosecution case

2 in a few months' time. Following that stage, you know that we reach the

3 98 bis stage, and possibly after the 98 bis stage we'll begin with the

4 Defence case. And under the rules, in that case the Defence has to

5 prepare its own list of witnesses and of exhibits. It's a great deal of

6 work.

7 There are six Defence teams here. It might be a good idea to

8 consult each other, because it's probably not a good idea to have the same

9 witness come here six times. You have to consult each other. You have to

10 select your witnesses. And it's not something that you should do at the

11 very last minute. I believe that you've already started. I'm not worried

12 in any way, but I'd like to remind you of that fact because these lists

13 will then have to be disclosed to the Judges, as the Prosecution did in

14 their own time, in order for us to determine the amount of time you will

15 be granted. Do not forget that point. For us it will be a great deal of

16 responsibility to set the time that will be given to each of the teams and

17 to the Defence as a whole, and we'll make that decision based on the lists

18 of witnesses and exhibits. It's a great deal of work, so you shouldn't

19 wait for the very last moment to think about this. It's something you

20 should consider you now, because it's a great deal of work to identify

21 your witnesses, your exhibits, et cetera.

22 I'm perfectly aware of the amount of work you have to do in that

23 respect.

24 JUDGE TRECHSEL: [Interpretation] Let me add something.

25 [In English] More than the necessary translation. This does, of

Page 19452

1 course, not mean that the Chamber has in any way taken any decision under

2 98 bis, and I'm aware of the fact that what the President suggests to you

3 is in a way loaded with the risk of unnecessary work for preparation. I

4 am not contradicting him, but I find it important to stress this. It is a

5 situation that no one can change. We are all in a situation of

6 insecurity. So in German there is an adage, which says, "To be ready is

7 everything," and I thought it was important to bring this caution.

8 JUDGE ANTONETTI: [Interpretation] And I would like to add a French

9 adage: "To govern is to foresee," and therefore a good Defence is to

10 cover everything.

11 So that's it. It is time to end these proceedings. Thank you

12 very much. The hearing stands adjourned, and I will see you all on

13 Tuesday afternoon.

14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 5.17 p.m.,

15 to be reconvened on Tuesday, the 5th day

16 of June, 2007, at 2.15 p.m.