Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 7421

1 Thursday, 4 July 2002

2 [Open session]

3 [The witness entered court]

4 [The accused entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.00 a.m.

6 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, if I may address the Court. I would

7 like to clarify the confusion that happened yesterday maybe with the dates

8 and what happened with the transcript.

9 There was a mistake in the transcript when I addressed to the

10 Court and I mentioned the date as being April 2000 for the events that

11 happened in the firing range. Your Honours, what happened is, with the

12 firing range, the exact dates are on the -- the events happened in April

13 1999. On 24 May 2000, the witness went to the site and visited with

14 members -- with representatives of the Office of the Prosecutor; and on

15 the 12th of June, he provided a statement about the facts. And the point

16 is I think the confusion and also created by the accused with several

17 questions caused the mistake with the dates. But the right event -- and

18 that is absolutely clear in both statements, the dates and the --

19 JUDGE MAY: It was the summary, I'm afraid, Ms. Romano, which was

20 confusing.

21 MS. ROMANO: Yes. That's what I said.

22 JUDGE MAY: It had the wrong date in it.

23 MS. ROMANO: That was a typo on the summary provided to the

24 Court.

25 JUDGE MAY: Well, could you be careful, in future, to see it

Page 7422

1 doesn't --

2 MS. ROMANO: Absolutely.

3 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Well, we must allow time for the accused to have

4 further cross-examination to clarify the point. The cross-examination

5 will be limited to questions about the exhumation at the firing range and

6 the statement which was made about it, since there was confusion yesterday

7 when he was asking questions about it.

8 But first, Mr. Tapuskovic, is there anything else you want to ask

9 of this witness, since you were stopped?

10 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I'll assess that

11 after the cross-examination by Mr. Slobodan Milosevic, by your leave.

12 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Mr. Milosevic, if you want to ask any more

13 questions about the statement and the firing range, now that the date has

14 been clarified, you can do so. The issue which you were raising appears

15 to be this: Why was it that in the first statement that was made to the

16 Prosecutors there was no mention of the firing range?

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. May, first of all, I would like

18 to say something about what we just heard from this other side. Even if

19 it were written in the statement that way, I wonder what the purpose of

20 cross-examination is if not, inter alia, of course, to work in the

21 interest of finding out the truth, inter alia challenging what the

22 statement says.

23 However, I wish to draw your attention to the following: An

24 addendum was provided yesterday to Ali Gjogaj's statement, and it says:

25 "I, Ali Gjogaj, would like to add the following to the statement that I

Page 7423

1 gave: Number 1, the statement dated the 27th of February 2000 and the 1st

2 of March, 2000 inserted after the first paragraph on page 1," then colon.

3 It says: "This statement refers to events in April and May 1999 when the

4 police sent me to assist the exhumation of bodies in the village of

5 Orahovac, and Zrze, Dushanova, Prizren, et cetera other locations where

6 these bodies were to be buried."

7 So this addendum, this correction has to do with those things that

8 we established yesterday, that we established had happened. The police

9 were taking them to the hospital for examination, then afterwards buried

10 them. Although when you insisted that these were mass graves, the witness

11 answered that everybody was buried in an individual grave.

12 JUDGE MAY: I did not insist. I suggested, no more than that. It

13 wasn't clear. The witness clarified it. But go on.

14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, I asked how come 13 graves for

15 60 bodies, and then you said it was mass graves. So we clarified that

16 point.

17 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Now, look, we are here with the witness. The

18 witness is here to finish his examination. Do you have any more questions

19 for him or not? If not, I will ask him a question and then we'll let him

20 go.

21 WITNESS: ALI GJOGAJ [Resumed]

22 [Witness answered through interpreter]

23 Further cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:

24 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Gjogaj, please, yesterday you stated here

25 under oath - we heard it in the microphone - did we state yesterday that

Page 7424

1 the exhumations at the firing range that you refer to when you mentioned

2 refrigerator truck, et cetera, did all this happen in the spring of 2000?

3 Is that so or is that not so?

4 JUDGE MAY: If he did, it was due to confusion. It's my

5 recollection that he didn't and it was counsel who suggested that to

6 him.

7 Now, look, Mr. Gjogaj, there's one point here. The point -- I'm

8 going to put it because otherwise we're just going to waste further time.

9 There's one point. You made a statement, you will remember, in

10 March -- May -- just a moment, just a moment. I am asking the witness a

11 question. Don't interrupt.

12 You made a statement in May -- March, rather, 2000. You did not

13 mention the firing range. Do you follow the point? Do you follow the

14 point? You didn't mention that to a later statement. Can you help us how

15 that came about? There may be an explanation, but can you explain?

16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Can I continue with my questions?

17 JUDGE MAY: No. I want to hear an answer from the witness.

18 Mr. Gjogaj, do you understand the point? You made two statements.

19 Do you remember making statements to the Prosecutor?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

21 JUDGE MAY: Very well. In the first one, you only dealt with

22 Pusto Selo, taking the bodies from Pusto Selo.

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

24 JUDGE MAY: It wasn't until a second statement, made a few months

25 later, that you dealt with the firing range.

Page 7425

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.

2 JUDGE MAY: Now, the question is: Why in the first statement did

3 you not cover the firing range too?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Because when we gave the first

5 statement, they first of all came and asked about Pastaselle and then

6 later they asked about the firing range.

7 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have to object, Mr. May.

9 Precisely the fact that this was not mentioned in the first statement and

10 that the Prosecution insisted subsequently that this other thing happened

11 at the same time when the first thing happened, which is highly unlikely,

12 that is why I suspected that we were not referring to the same time, and

13 that's why I asked Mr. Gjogaj to confirm when the firing range was

14 topical, and that was the spring of 2000. And all of us in this courtroom

15 heard this.

16 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

17 Q. So please, Mr. Gjogaj, did you confirm yesterday that these events

18 occurred in the spring of 2000? Yes or no.

19 A. The event happened in the spring of 1999.

20 Q. And do you remember that yesterday you said it happened in the

21 spring of 2000?

22 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, there's no point arguing about what was

23 said yesterday. It may well be -- we will have to look at the transcript.

24 It may well be that he did, in which case we can draw a conclusion about

25 it. But wait a minute. But it may be that he was confused by your

Page 7426

1 questioning, which is quite possible.

2 Now, we will have to come to a conclusion about it when we've read

3 the transcript. I don't think there's much point going on arguing with

4 the witness as to what he said.

5 Now, is there anything more you want to ask him?

6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I do not think it is argument if I

7 ask the witness whether he remembers that he said yesterday that the event

8 occurred in the spring of 2000.

9 JUDGE MAY: Is there anything else you want to ask him?

10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes.

11 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. Yesterday, after the hearing was over, Mr. Gjogaj, who did you

13 talk to out of all the people here? With how many people did you talk

14 here?

15 A. Where are you talking about? What people?

16 Q. I'm asking since yesterday when we broke off, when the hearing was

17 over yesterday, sometime around 2.00 in the afternoon, until this morning,

18 who did you talk to?

19 JUDGE MAY: That's much too general a question. Is the point

20 this: Do you want to find out whether he talked to anyone from the

21 Prosecution? Is that the point, Mr. Milosevic?

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Of course. Of course. Of course.

23 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. But I'm just asking you who you talked to.

25 JUDGE MAY: That is far too general a question.

Page 7427

1 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. May, it is not far too general,

2 and I do not see why this is not a legitimate question.

3 JUDGE MAY: Because it's far too general. I've given you the

4 answer.

5 The question is this, Mr. Gjogaj: Did you talk to anybody from

6 the Prosecution during the adjournment? That means overnight, since we

7 were last in court together.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

9 JUDGE MAY: Did you talk to any of the investigators?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

11 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. And did you talk to anyone, Mr. Gjogaj?

13 A. No.

14 JUDGE MAY: About this case. The point is, did you talk to

15 anybody about the case or about your evidence?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

17 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

18 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

19 Q. So you did not talk to anyone at all since yesterday?

20 JUDGE MAY: No. The only point is did he talk to anybody about

21 the case, and the answer is no.

22 Now, unless you've got some further questions, it's going to be

23 brought to an end. Relevant questions.

24 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

25 Q. Mr. Gjogaj, I do have a question. What are the reasons for your

Page 7428

1 change of statement since yesterday until today, overnight? What are the

2 reasons for that? Why did you say yesterday the year 2000 and why do you

3 say 1999 today? There is a difference. There is a one-year difference.

4 So what are the reasons for the change?

5 JUDGE MAY: You're going back to the same point again which is

6 arguing about what he said yesterday. Now, he's given his evidence. We

7 have the transcript of it, we can all read it and draw such conclusions as

8 are proper.

9 Mr. Tapuskovic, have you got any questions you want to ask the

10 witness?

11 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Well, Your Honour, I think that

12 this should be clarified, an additional point. In both statements, it is

13 stated that both these events were in the month of April 1999. That's

14 what it says in his statements, both of them. Did both events that he

15 spoke of today distinctly, did both occur in April?

16 JUDGE MAY: I think you'll find the first statement refers to

17 April or May. First of all, it refers to spring.

18 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

19 JUDGE MAY: The clarification is April or May. Yes.

20 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] That's right. As for the second

21 statement, he says unequivocally the month of April. This is what it says

22 here, the month of April. He doesn't refer to May at all. That is

23 paragraph number 4 in the second statement.

24 Now, in addition to that, I'm interested in the following: He

25 said that what he did in both cases, as he said, he worked with and he

Page 7429

1 mentioned names, Buda, Shefki Salihu, Xhevdet Mazreku, Isuf Krasniqi, and

2 also he said that the same was -- that these same people were engaged

3 during this other event that took place. Can he say who he worked with

4 the first time and who he worked with the second time?

5 Further questioned by Mr. Tapuskovic:

6 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Gjogaj, you said that both times the same

7 people, absolutely the same people were together with you. Is that right

8 or is that not right?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Are you sure that there were two events?

11 A. Yes.

12 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

13 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Any re-examination, Ms. Romano?

14 MS. ROMANO: No, Your Honour.

15 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Gjogaj, that concludes your evidence. Thank you

16 for coming to the International Tribunal to give it. You are free to go.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you as well.

18 [The witness withdrew]

19 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Nice.

20 MR. NICE: There are three very short administrative matters in

21 open session, one very short matter in private session, with your leave.

22 The three matters in open session: First, K30 will now be giving

23 evidence without protection.

24 Second, the Chamber requested some details about disclosure of

25 expert witnesses two days ago. That information is now in the form of a

Page 7430

1 schedule similar to but more detailed than the general schedule you get

2 and is now coming your way.

3 JUDGE MAY: While you're dealing with expert reports, we've been

4 looking at that, and it's not clear from the Rules, or indeed from our

5 orders, as to whether they should be translated or not, and I think the

6 view you've been taking is that they shouldn't be.

7 MR. NICE: In fact the view we've been taking is that by Rule they

8 don't have to be but in all cases we're having them translated and the

9 only problem is one of priority with CLSS for a document which isn't the

10 subject of regulation, but we're getting them translated as soon as we

11 can.

12 JUDGE MAY: The issue, then, that we have to resolve is how much

13 time has the accused got with them in his own language.

14 MR. NICE: Yes.

15 JUDGE MAY: They are disclosed in English to him.

16 MR. NICE: And as soon as may be, given the pressures on CLSS in

17 B/C/S, yes.

18 JUDGE MAY: It may have an impact on the timing of witnesses,

19 that's the point.

20 MR. NICE: I can understand. You will see that -- it may be that

21 when the schedule comes your way, you will be particularly interested in

22 what is said there about Philip Coo and the dating of the provision of

23 B/C/S for him, which is obviously quite --

24 JUDGE MAY: But he at least is a local witness, I take it.

25 MR. NICE: Exactly, yes.

Page 7431

1 JUDGE MAY: If it was necessary for him to go back, could you fill

2 the gap? I'm merely speculating.

3 MR. NICE: I'll let you know.

4 JUDGE MAY: Yes.

5 MR. NICE: So that's the second point, and here comes the

6 schedule. And I'll let you know, either personally or by someone else,

7 where there will be any problem in filling the gap so far as Mr. Coo is

8 concerned should the 16th of July be judged too early in relation to the

9 provision of the B/C/S translation, but that's still two weeks away so

10 there's a good long time.

11 The third point: Mr. Hendrie. Mr. Hendrie is subject of

12 arrangements to fly here tonight in order that he may be further

13 cross-examined by the accused tomorrow. It's been quite inconvenient for

14 Mr. Hendrie to obtain release from his employment to get here. My

15 intention, in accordance with normal practice, would be not to ask him any

16 particular questions myself about the topics upon which he should have

17 been cross-examined but simply to tender him for further and appropriate

18 cross-examination in light of the line that the accused has taken with

19 later witnesses, and in particular with Ambassador Walker.

20 JUDGE MAY: This is a litigant in person. The usual Rules have

21 got to be applied in a relevant way. A litigant in person may find it

22 much more difficult to put the questions. It's more difficult for the

23 Court if they're not put accurately, so it may be better if you put them

24 and he can cross-examine on them.

25 MR. NICE: Very well, then. That's very helpful. We've been

Page 7432

1 obviously cautious about alerting him to the detail of what might be

2 raised, and although he is aware, I think in general terms of the topic

3 that will be covered, it had been my intention not to go through matters

4 with him or, rather, to have Mr. Ryneveld go through matters with him in

5 advance of his coming, but if the court's happy that we should do that,

6 then he will be briefly prepared with his photographs and it will be up to

7 the accused to deal with the matter.

8 JUDGE MAY: Very well.

9 MR. NICE: And then can I -- the last matter, literally one minute

10 in private session, with your leave.

11 JUDGE MAY: Yes. We'll go into private session

12 [Private session]

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Page 7434

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13 Page 7434 redacted private session.

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Page 7435

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2 [redacted]

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7 [redacted]

8 [Open session]

9 [The witness entered court]

10 WITNESS: HALIT BERISHA

11 [Witness answered through interpreter]

12 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the witness take the declaration.

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

14 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

15 JUDGE MAY: If you'd like to take a seat.

16 Examined by Ms. Romano:

17 Q. Mr. Berisha, can you state your full name for the Court, please.

18 A. Halit Berisha, born on 5th of August, 1940, in Suva Reka.

19 Q. What's your profession, Mr. Berisha?

20 A. I'm a teacher of mathematics.

21 Q. Mr. Berisha, you provided the Office of the Prosecutor with a

22 statement on 17 [sic] of August, 2001; is that correct?

23 A. On 17th of August, 2000.

24 Q. Yes. Are you sure?

25 A. Sure.

Page 7436

1 MS. ROMANO: Can I have the witness shown the --

2 JUDGE MAY: Yes, let the witness see the statement.

3 MS. ROMANO: -- statement.

4 Q. Mr. Berisha, can you please look at the date of the statement.

5 MS. ROMANO: Excuse me. I have the Albanian version. I think I

6 gave the English version.

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On 27th of August, 2001.

8 MS. ROMANO:

9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Berisha. Mr. Berisha, on 13 March 2002, in Suva

10 Reka, you remember attending a meeting with a presiding officer of the

11 Registrar of this Tribunal, and at that opportunity you have -- you read

12 your statement or you had the statement read to you, and you confirmed the

13 contents of your statement; is that correct?

14 A. Yes, that's right.

15 Q. After, Mr. Berisha, when you arrived here in The Hague, you also

16 made a couple of corrections to your statement that I will go to in a

17 minute. Is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. The amendment is to page 4, paragraph 1, line 5 of the English

20 version. The witness -- this is not included to the 92 bis procedure, was

21 not included when the 92 bis procedure was done. And what the witness

22 wants to correct, that part should read: "On that day, we left due to an

23 offensive that occurred from Musutiste towards Buzhalle. My brother and

24 family drove towards Albania via Prizren. The police stopped them and

25 told them to go back to Savrove. Me and two of my sons hid in woods near

Page 7437

1 Buzhalle. Two days later, we were reunited in Savrove where we remained

2 for two days before returning to Suva Reka."

3 And the statement continues: "I went to the woods with my two

4 sons on 7 April 1999."

5 Are these the corrections that you made when you arrived here?

6 A. Yes. One I -- one correction I made was that it said that I met

7 them after my return from Prizren. I didn't meet them in Prizren, but I

8 met them in the village of Savrove after my return from Prizren.

9 Q. Thank you, Mr. Berisha.

10 MS. ROMANO: At this point, the Prosecution wants to submit the

11 statement into evidence.

12 JUDGE MAY: Yes.

13 THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 240 for the original version

14 and 240A for the redacted version.

15 MS. ROMANO: The witness is a Kosovar Albania. He was elected

16 president of the municipality of Suva Reka on 24 May, 1989 and held that

17 position until 5 April 1991 when he was forcefully removed from his office

18 by members of the Serb Assembly of Suva Reka and the Serb secret police.

19 On that occasion, the witness was shown a document from the Serb Assembly

20 in Belgrade ordering him and other Albanians --

21 THE INTERPRETER: Could the Prosecutor please read slowly, thank

22 you.

23 MS. ROMANO: I apologise. I will read slow.

24 The witness was unemployed from that date until 8 October, 1999

25 when he was reinstated into the municipality of Suva Reka as the

Page 7438

1 vice-president.

2 The witness describes the events from 24 March 1999 until 21st May

3 1999. He relates his knowledge of the massacre of the extended Berisha

4 family on the 26th March 1999. He describes the increased movements of

5 Serb forces in Suva Reka. He notes that the forces were wearing different

6 colour uniforms and snipers were positioned in buildings around the town.

7 The snipers would fire at Kosovar Albanian civilians, making movement very

8 difficult.

9 Around 6.30 on the 25th March, 1999, the witness spoke with family

10 members for the Kuci and Ramadan Berisha families who were fleeing past

11 his house. He was told that people near their home --

12 THE INTERPRETER: Please slow down a little.

13 MS. ROMANO: Sorry.

14 He was told that people near their homes had been killed and homes

15 looted.

16 On 26 March 1999, his brother Jashar left for work at about 12.20

17 p.m. He rang the witness's home, stating that people had been killed at

18 the shopping centre. The witness gathered family members and fled. Later

19 that day, he rang his brother at work and told him that the family Berisha

20 members Sedat, Nexhat and Bujar had been killed by Serb police and that he

21 had heard shooting, explosions, and screams from the shopping centre.

22 On 28 March 1999, the witness heard an explosion and saw the

23 minaret at the mosque destroyed. Later that evening, a Serb policeman

24 neighbour came to his home and told him that he must go to Albania or

25 paramilitaries would kill him. The witness and some family members headed

Page 7439

1 for Prizren. They were stopped by Serb police who ordered them to go

2 back. The witness and his two sons went into hiding in the woods for

3 almost a month before joining his wife at the house of a family member.

4 His wife told him that their home had been looted and vandalised.

5 On 21st May 1999, police again came to his home and ordered him to

6 leave for Albania, stating: "You have 15 minutes to leave for Albania or

7 you will never see this land again." The witness left with family members

8 in two vehicles and joined a convoy of approximately 5.000 people going

9 towards Albania. The vehicles had been organised by the police in the

10 centre of the town for those with no transport. At the border IDs,

11 licenses and registration plates were removed by the police.

12 On 23 June 1999, the witness returned to Kosovo. Annexed to the

13 witness's statement are a number of documents found on his return, some

14 downloaded from a floppy disk found in the premises of a local business

15 and others located in the municipality building.

16 That's all, Your Honours.

17 JUDGE MAY: Turning to the documents, they appear, from the

18 statement, to be documents related to the VJ in the municipality.

19 MS. ROMANO: Yes, Your Honour. If you'd like, I can ask the

20 witness to give more details about the attachments.

21 JUDGE MAY: I don't think we need more details. We can see them

22 here. They are a series in relation to that particular topic, units of

23 the VJ and the like. Yes. Thank you.

24 Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have just now received this pile

Page 7440

1 of documents that are being introduced through this witness, and in this

2 past minute I've looked through it and I fail to understand the purpose of

3 this heap of paper, list of conscripts, list of motor vehicles, decisions

4 of the Municipal Assembly about current everyday matters, lists of drivers

5 and so on. Kindly explain to me the meaning of this and why am I

6 receiving now this heap of paper which is now completely stripped of any

7 value?

8 JUDGE MAY: It's not for the Court to explain. It's a matter

9 which the Prosecution should deal with.

10 Ms. Romano, perhaps you could briefly, since the accused has

11 raised it, assist us as to what you say the relevance of these documents

12 about the VJ and Suva Reka are.

13 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, first of all I would like to clarify

14 that that is not the first time the accused has received these documents.

15 They have been disclosed before. All the documents that refer to this

16 witness have been disclosed previously.

17 These documents are documents - I can ask the witness also to

18 clarify the Court - are the documents that when he returned to Kosovo, he

19 found and they are relevant to the situation of the village at that time.

20 They will be referred later on into -- when our military analyst will come

21 and give the report what is the relevance and where the composition of the

22 forces at the time.

23 They also refer to decisions that he refer in his statement about

24 what happened when he was dismissed, when he was -- just a second, Your

25 Honour. That -- when he held the position, he was the president of the

Page 7441

1 municipality of Suva Reka, and he was -- he was removed from his position.

2 So some of the documents also that he annexed are referring to this fact

3 that he mentioned in his statement.

4 JUDGE MAY: So the relevance can be summarised as referring to the

5 various units which were in Suva Reka which is said to have been the scene

6 at least of one massacre, as said, and therefore is relevant as to what

7 units were present in the town. And the other matter, if I may say of

8 less relevance, with due respect to the witness, are matters concerning

9 disputes which were occurring when he was in the municipality and his

10 dismissal. No doubt you would say relevant as to the prejudice which

11 existed and discrimination which existed against the Kosovo Albanians at

12 the time.

13 MS. ROMANO: Exact. One more point, Your Honour, is that he

14 provide also a list of members of the civil -- the local Civil Defence.

15 That will also be subject of analysis of -- in the military report.

16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you.

17 Now, Mr. Milosevic, have you any questions of the witness?

18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I most certainly do. I'm just

19 trying to find some of these documents that would help me and perhaps

20 could be clarified by the witness. All right. Let's not waste time.

21 In view of the multitude of paper I've been served with, I don't

22 know whether it's logical to have 92 bis apply to this witness and the

23 limitation of my time.

24 Cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:

25 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Berisha, are you a member of any political

Page 7442

1 party?

2 A. I'm not a member of any political party.

3 Q. And in what political parties are the members of your family

4 involved?

5 A. No member of my family is a member of any political party. I have

6 six sons, grown up, married; I have daughters-in-law, but not one of them

7 is involved in a political party.

8 Q. All right. You say that you were president of the municipal

9 Assembly of Suva Reka from the 24th of May 1989 to the 5th of April, 1991.

10 Who elected you from April, 1989?

11 A. On 24th of May, 1989, I was elected by the Assembly of the

12 municipality of Suva Reka, the delegates of the Assembly. And also in the

13 October 1999 elections, I was again elected by members of the Assembly.

14 Until 5th of April when, under a decision by the Serbian Assembly and on

15 the proposal of the council of the Socialist Party of Suhareke, I was

16 dismissed by force. And on the 5th of May, I was thrown out of my office.

17 This was in 1991. There were five people who came from Belgrade and three

18 local people who took over these positions. Among them there was Bobek

19 Vuksanovic, Tomislav Borisavljevic, a local man, and --

20 Q. Please don't give me such long answers. From the explanation you

21 are giving, somebody could come to the conclusion that violence was used

22 against you. Was that the case?

23 A. There was no physical violence but I was told that I should get

24 out of my office because I was no longer chairman of the municipality. It

25 was psychological violence because the Serbian Assembly was not legitimate

Page 7443

1 and didn't have any authority to dismiss me as chairman of the

2 municipality. Only the Assembly that elects you can dismiss you.

3 Q. You mean the Assembly?

4 A. The Assembly of Serbia?

5 Q. You mean the Assembly of the Republic of Serbia?

6 A. Yes, the Republic of Serbia.

7 Q. You are talking about being replaced, and you don't mention the

8 reasons. By sheer chance, I found in this heap of paper a draft proposal

9 where they say they are addressing the government of the Republic of

10 Serbia. They are writing to the government. And they said they had

11 considered the situation in this municipality and came to the conclusion,

12 due to the well-known events, support for the Kacanik constitution, and

13 failure to abide by the decisions of the Assembly of Serbia, they are

14 proposing that the president of the Assembly of Suva Reka be replaced.

15 And this decision was indeed made, I suppose.

16 If this draft proposal was really sent to the government, then

17 forwarded to the Assembly, and you were replaced in due course. What is

18 illegal about that?

19 A. It was illegal because only the Assembly that elects you can

20 dismiss you, and I was elected by the Assembly of Suhareke and not the

21 Assembly of Serbia. This is why it's illegal. And there was no grounds

22 for this step. But the main reason was to eliminate all Albanians from

23 positions in the municipality, even though the proportion of the

24 population in the municipality was 95 per cent Albanian, only 5 per cent

25 Serbs, and a few Romanies.

Page 7444

1 Q. Mr. Berisha --

2 A. [Previous translation continues]... was to take over power.

3 Q. You have just said that the purpose was to eliminate all Albanians

4 from leading positions. Is that right?

5 A. [No translation]

6 Q. Do you know, Mr. Berisha, that, for instance, the day before

7 yesterday we read here from a book not by our witness but by the other

8 side's witness, Wolfgang Petritsch, about officials of the Socialist Party

9 of Serbia who were killed in 1998, who were Albanians, including

10 presidents of municipal boards - that is, people who were at the same

11 level as you were, ethnic Albanians - so could anyone possibly draw the

12 conclusion that there was an intention to eliminate Albanians whereas in

13 1998 and 1999 there were Albanians in leading positions? Do you know

14 that? Are you aware of that?

15 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. Just one moment, Mr. Berisha.

16 First of all, the witness cannot comment on what Mr. Petritsch

17 said in evidence two days ago. He wasn't here and he can't comment on it.

18 What you can put to him is that there was no discrimination at the time

19 and Albanians were in leading positions.

20 Now, Mr. Berisha, that is the suggestion made to you. It's for

21 you to deal with it.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] From -- from the time when I was

23 dismissed as municipal chairman down to 1998, no people were killed who

24 were a part of the Serbian power structure. There was no murder at all.

25 Down to the beginning of the war in 1998.

Page 7445

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Page 7446

1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

2 Q. All right.

3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Is my time limited to 45 minutes,

4 Mr. May?

5 JUDGE MAY: We'll consider that, but start out on that basis. If

6 you need more time, we'll look at the clock.

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. Then I have to hurry up.

8 I'll skip some questions.

9 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. You say that you were allegedly replaced. You also mentioned

11 Vuksanovic, a doctor, and Tomislav Borisavljevic, a secretary, and three

12 members of the secret service. So who was it who replaced you? Was it

13 the Assembly of the Republic of Serbia that you mentioned or were they

14 members of the secret service? What's all the mystery about?

15 A. They were brought by the decision of the Serbian Assembly, and

16 three of them were members of the Serbian police secret service, and two

17 of them belonged to the Serbian Assembly.

18 Q. So two of them were deputies, right?

19 A. I didn't know them. I don't know their names. I don't know their

20 names at all.

21 Q. And how do you know that those other people were members of the

22 secret service?

23 A. Some members of the Municipal Assembly knew them, the three. I

24 didn't know them, but these workers who worked in the Assembly, they --

25 they identified them as members of the Serbian secret service.

Page 7447

1 Q. Oh, you mean those were some local policemen in your area. All

2 right. Well, you say your people who worked in the Assembly knew them.

3 Let's not waste any more time on this.

4 You say Bobek Vuksanovic, who was president of the Suva Reka

5 Assembly after you, was killed on the 14th of April, 1999. Do you know

6 who killed him?

7 A. His real name is Bobek Vuksanovic, and he's the son of Ymer

8 Shetra, and his mother was a Vuksanovic. He was an illegitimate child and

9 went to school and grew up in Suhareke, but I don't know who killed him on

10 14 April, 1999. But I do know that he was the commander of the Crisis

11 Staff in Suhareke, and I know, as I have been told, that he was wearing a

12 camouflage military uniform when he was killed and he was not killed as a

13 doctor.

14 Q. All right. I asked -- since you remembered the date when he was

15 killed, I thought you knew who killed him, but you don't know, do you?

16 A. You mentioned the date, and I don't know who killed him because I

17 wasn't in Suhareke at the time because I was in the village of Savrove at

18 the time.

19 Q. I understood that this date is indicated in your statement, but

20 let's not dwell on this. Do you know under what circumstances he was

21 killed or where?

22 A. I only heard that he was killed. I don't know the circumstances.

23 But I can repeat again that he was the commander of the Crisis Staff in

24 Suhareke municipality from 1998 onwards.

25 Q. And while you were president of the Municipal Assembly from 1989

Page 7448

1 to 1991 in a variety of situations when you had your rules of procedure

2 governing floods, crisis, traffic regulations, et cetera, were you the

3 commander of the Crisis Staff?

4 A. According to the Statutes of the municipality, yes. But in 1998,

5 it wasn't mayor of the municipality. It was a person called Radic. He

6 wasn't mayor of the municipality.

7 Q. All right. You claim that when you were being replaced, your

8 pistol was taken away from you, the pistol that you had received as

9 president of the Assembly for your personal protection. Is that true?

10 A. No. My pistol was taken on the 5th of August, 1990 when I was

11 mayor of the municipality. It was taken away by -- under the order of

12 someone from Belgrade. I don't know his name. There was something about

13 recruiting young people. And in front of the defence, public defence

14 building, which is across from the city hall, there were three policemen

15 in armed vests, and they brought an invitation or an order telling me

16 officially to -- relieving me of my duties as -- that was on the 5th of

17 August, 1990.

18 I was, at that time, mayor of the municipality. The position of a

19 mayor at that time --

20 Q. I don't understand a word you're saying, Mr. Berisha. You say

21 that on the 5th of April, 1991, you were replaced. Now you say that it

22 was the 5th of August.

23 A. On the 5th of August, they took away my pistol. 1990. 5th of

24 August, 1990. 1990, the 5th of August, that was when they took away my

25 pistol. Whereas on the 5th of April, 1991, I was thrown out of office, of

Page 7449

1 my office. They are two different dates.

2 Q. All right. So at the time when your pistol was taken away from

3 you, you were president of the Assembly, right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. And the police thought you shouldn't have a gun?

6 A. Well, the police commander was the person who had decided -- who

7 decided everything. The role of the mayor was so small in comparison that

8 it was actually -- he decided everything. He had -- the police had all

9 power in town. It was a totalitarian state, a totalitarian police state

10 at that time.

11 Q. All right. Using this example, you will have difficulty

12 explaining this. Do you know a single country where the police does not

13 issue licenses for weapons? Is there any country where a licence is not

14 required?

15 JUDGE MAY: That's an irrelevant comment.

16 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Where I come from in Yugoslavia, the

17 police issues, indeed, licenses for firearms. They did so in the past and

18 they do so nowadays. That's nothing new.

19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. All right. In addition to that pistol, did you have any other

21 weapons?

22 A. I didn't need any.

23 Q. And where were you on the 24th of March, 1989?

24 A. In my own home in Suhareke. My house is behind the Assembly

25 building, the post office, and the court office. There are three

Page 7450

1 buildings next to each other and my house is behind these three buildings.

2 Q. All right. So on the 24th of March, when the NATO aggression

3 started, you were in Suva Reka in your own home; right?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. You said that on that day you saw Serb soldiers in the church bell

6 of the -- of the area and on the terrace of the post office building. Is

7 that so?

8 A. Police? Not 24th of March. In the police station, one, there was

9 always a mortar, a large-calibre mortar in front of the police station,

10 positioned there. The second was in the belfry of the church, and the

11 Serbs had built a platform out of planks where the bell is, and there were

12 four snipers there in commanding positions. And then below, the post

13 office has a balcony, and they were on the post office balcony. And down

14 below, further down, there is the department store, and the police were

15 stationed above the department store, with a view of a large portion of

16 the city centre. And they were stationed in the wine cellar. And from

17 the villages of Sllapuzhan, Rreshtan, and they were stationed at the old

18 post office in Suhareke, and above the post office, they were positioned

19 in an apartment building known as Kula, beyond the health centre. And

20 they were also stationed above the Balkan Hotel. Not the factory but the

21 hotel.

22 That is where police forces were stationed in the town of

23 Suhareke. From about the end of May, of April 1998. And the largest

24 reinforcements came in March 1999. And then it was impossible to pass --

25 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, if you would just deal with the

Page 7451

1 questions, please, and if there are more questions about that, you can

2 answer.

3 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

4 Q. I am asking you whether you saw them shoot at anyone.

5 A. Not only once but many times. I saw it with my own eyes. And to

6 go from one house to another, you had to go in the shadow of walls,

7 because they were in every nook and cranny, they were firing. Moreover,

8 my house looks over a lane, and in the lower part of this lane there are

9 local Serbs living who were our neighbours until recently, and they were

10 all armed. The Trajkovic family, the Cvetkovic family, and then the

11 Jovanovic family. They were all -- all of them, 16 years and above, they

12 were all armed. I saw them with my own eyes. Until yesterday, we were

13 neighbours. And they were either all armed or with police uniform,

14 camouflage police uniform, and some of them had military uniforms, and

15 some of them even had what we call Chetnik caps with the symbols of the

16 old monarchy. I saw this with my own eyes, because it was only a lane

17 that divides my family from their houses.

18 Q. All right. You've explained all of this at great length, but you

19 haven't answered the question. Did you see them kill anyone?

20 JUDGE MAY: That's another question. It wasn't the question which

21 you asked before. But still, Mr. Berisha, you can answer it.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I said I saw them firing. I don't

23 -- when we talk about 26th of March, when the massacre was committed at

24 the craftsman centre in Suhareke, I saw them firing.

25 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7452

1 Q. Did you see them kill anyone in Suva Reka? Were you present

2 during such an occurrence?

3 A. I wasn't able to be present. Not anybody was able to be present

4 because anybody who's there or anybody who went out on the road, it would

5 have been a catastrophe. You would have been a dead man. For that

6 reason, it was impossible to be that close when people were killed, but

7 those people who were fired on were killed. And we looked after ourselves

8 in our own houses, hiding behind walls. And at any moment, we had to be

9 ready to flee to the river, among the trees by the river. And in --

10 Q. Mr. Berisha, I asked you whether you saw them kill anyone. You

11 say that you did not see them do that; is that right?

12 A. I didn't see them killing them, but the people who are now missing

13 were killed by them.

14 Q. All right. You can infer whatever you want. I asked you whether

15 you saw this, and I got an answer. And now you tell me that members of

16 the Kuci and Ramadani family or the family Ramadani Jashari, that the

17 members of that family told you that on the 24th of March, in the centre

18 of town, some people were robbed and killed; is that right?

19 A. I said on the 25th of March, sometime between 6.00 and 6.30. The

20 family of Ramadan Berisha and other families with different surnames on

21 one side of the Prizren-Prishtina road, that is, on the right-hand side,

22 in our yard fled, saying that the Serbian police had killed on the street

23 that goes through the old town and having burned the house of Agim

24 Ramadani. Out of fear, they described how they got up and they didn't

25 have even shoes. They had to flee to the river.

Page 7453

1 And on the 25th of March, sometime round about 6.30, we -- because

2 we are a large family and -- 200 of us in all, most of them were forced on

3 tractors and trailers, were forced to gather their belongings and take

4 shelter by the river on the outskirts of the town because of the fear of

5 the police coming at any moment.

6 Q. Mr. Berisha, in relation to this other occurrence - Kuci, Jashari,

7 et cetera - did you see any of these killings or lootings? Did you see

8 any of that?

9 A. I didn't see them because I was on the other side of town. But

10 the people who came to my house, to my yard, they told me that these

11 people were killed, Mevdi Jashari [phoen] and others, on the road of the

12 old town. They told me.

13 Q. All right. All right. Please, could you try to cut this short,

14 because I don't want to spend this much time on all of this.

15 What are you personally testifying about, Mr. Berisha?

16 A. I'm testifying to the massacre of 26th of March.

17 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. That's not for you to say. What's

18 important is the evidence which you give.

19 Now, Mr. Milosevic, what you must ask the witness about is the

20 evidence he's given in his statement. If you want to ask any questions

21 about that, you can do so.

22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. All right. All right,

23 Mr. May. No problem whatsoever.

24 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

25 Q. How far away is the village of Savrove from Suva Reka?

Page 7454

1 A. Savrove is on the road, on the main road, about five to six

2 kilometres away.

3 Q. All right. And why did you think that you should go to the

4 village?

5 A. I have a friend there, and I went because I saw a lot of police

6 forces in Suhareke, in the town, and also to take my family away. Only

7 myself, my wife, and my brother Jashar remained at home. He was manager

8 of the petrol station. And on the 26th of March, he went to work and

9 never came back.

10 Q. All right. On the 25th of March, as you say, on the 25th of

11 March, your brother was working unhindered at the workplace; is that

12 right?

13 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: Could the witness please

14 pause before answering.

15 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

16 Q. Is it true that you or your brother were not at the shopping

17 centre where the alleged killing of the Albanians took place?

18 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, I'm going to interrupt you. You're being

19 asked by the interpreters if you could leave a break after the question so

20 it can be interpreted, and then answer.

21 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] On the 26th of March, my brother

22 went to work at the petrol station. At 12.20 -- until 12.20, nothing

23 happened. But at that time, he telephoned me and said at the shopping

24 centre, which is not even five metres from the petrol station, it's

25 adjacent to the petrol station, he said, "All of you leave home because a

Page 7455

1 massacre is taking place at the shopping centre." This was a phone

2 conversation, and it was his suggestion that I should leave. I told him,

3 "What are you waiting for then? Why are you not leaving too?" And he

4 said to me, "I will come home at 5.00, when my work is finished."

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. All right, Mr. Berisha. Let us try to shorten these questions.

7 You phoned a Serb family in order to find out where Jashar was, and then

8 afterwards, you called yet another family, et cetera. Were you on good

9 terms with the Serbs who lived in Suva Reka?

10 A. It's true. It's true that we phoned the family of Milutin

11 Trajkovic.

12 Q. Their names do not matter. My question was whether you were on

13 good terms with them. Does that mean that throughout this time that you

14 are testifying about, you were communicating with the local Serbs and you

15 personally did not have any problems with them?

16 A. We didn't have any problems. But they replied that, "We know

17 nothing of what's going on."

18 Your Honour, if you allow me to make an explanation. On the 5th

19 of April of this year, my cousin -- this same Milutin Trajkovic, who is

20 now in Serbia, telephoned my cousin and said why my relatives were killed

21 between five and six by the department store in Suhareke.

22 Q. All right. Tell me, please, what was that? Trajkovic asked your

23 cousin, right?

24 A. Telephoned from Serbia.

25 Q. Tell me, in Suva Reka and in the surrounding area on the 25th of

Page 7456

1 March, on the 26th, and the 27th, and on the 28th - that is to say we are

2 talking about the period between the 25th and the 28th - was there any

3 fighting there?

4 A. There was no fighting in the town of Suhareke.

5 Q. In your statement, you say that you heard a loud explosion and you

6 saw the minaret on the mosque blown up; is that right?

7 A. Yes. On the 28th of March, 1999, sometime at around 11.55, we

8 heard a great explosion. And when we watched -- looked at the minaret,

9 which is about 300 metres away, we saw that the minaret had gone.

10 Meanwhile, in that five or six minutes period, on the road that

11 leads towards Prishtina, we saw a Gazik [phoen] vehicle, a camouflaged

12 vehicle going towards Birac, which is three kilometres from Suhareke,

13 where army forces were stationed. And we saw that the minaret of the

14 mosque in Suhareke had been destroyed. That was the Bajram holiday, which

15 is a festival for Albanian Muslims.

16 Q. And tell me, was anybody killed in that mosque?

17 A. No. Fortunately, nobody was inside.

18 Q. Tell me, do Muslims go to the mosque on the holiday of Bajram?

19 A. We go to the mosque. But nobody went on this day because we knew

20 what would happen if we did.

21 Q. So you did not go to the mosque even on Bajram because you knew

22 that somebody would target the mosque. Mr. Berisha --

23 A. Yes. We didn't go.

24 Q. Was a KLA sniper perhaps on the minaret? Is that perhaps the

25 reason why you didn't go to the mosque?

Page 7457

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Page 7458

1 A. No.

2 Q. Please. You've sworn to tell the truth here.

3 A. The KLA was never in Suhareke.

4 Q. You were president of the municipality, a public figure, a

5 politician, very well-informed. You don't know anything about KLA

6 activities in the territory of Suva Reka?

7 A. KLA activities were never in the town. They were in the

8 outskirts, only in the outskirts, among the villagers. In the hills and

9 mountains, the KLA was active there. And that is where fighting took

10 place. There was fighting in the village of Sllapuzhan, in the village of

11 Semetishti, in Doberdolan and so forth, but there was no fighting in the

12 towns. There was no possibility of them being there because of the large

13 number of police forces and military forces. They were -- they were in

14 Damper and on the pass of Dules, because the army only used to pass

15 through Suhareke, travelling between Prizren and the pass of Dules.

16 Q. All right. Do you know how many Albanians in the territory of

17 Suva Reka were killed by the KLA during 1998 and until the beginning of

18 the war in 1999? Do you know how many Albanians the KLA killed in your

19 municipality?

20 A. I don't know. I don't know of any who were killed. I don't know

21 at all. There were people killed on the front in the war, with the Serbs,

22 with the Serb police and military.

23 Q. I am not talking about that. I am talking about Albanians that

24 the KLA killed on the territory of our municipality. You know nothing

25 about that?

Page 7459

1 A. I don't know what you're talking about, no.

2 Q. Well, for example, I have a list here of Albanians who were killed

3 by the KLA in your municipality. I don't know whether you know any of

4 these people: Bajraktari Xhavit, Bytyqi Petric [phoen], Gashi Bexhet,

5 Gashi Umat [phoen], Gashi Uzdija, Gashi Hajria, Kallolli Latif, Kallolli

6 Lusha, Kryeziu Xhemajl or Xhemal, Kryeziu Sadri, Rokla Sulejman [phoen],

7 Kafaj Xhemajl, Kafaj Ibrahim, Kafaj Ismail, Kafaj Riza, Here Sajapas

8 [phoen]. Do you know any one of these names of people who were killed in

9 the territory of your municipality by the KLA?

10 A. I know that Sadri Kryeziu was killed near a newspaper kiosk.

11 There was an attack, an assassination. Misko, who was the head of the

12 state secret police in Suhareke, by him. He was killed on -- inside,

13 because I heard about that, inside a shop. And Petric Gashi [phoen], was

14 killed on the street -- on the road to Rreshtan. The others, I don't know

15 about.

16 Q. All right. So you do know about some crimes that were committed

17 in Suva Reka by the KLA. You've just mentioned three of them.

18 JUDGE MAY: He did not say they were committed by the KLA. That

19 is what you said. He merely said that he knew the deaths of people.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I said they were killed. I didn't

21 say who killed them. I don't know who killed them. There was never a

22 proper investigation.

23 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

24 Q. All right. Tell me, as a person who is familiar with the

25 situation in Suva Reka, what do you think? Who killed these people whose

Page 7460

1 names I read out to you, people who were activists and officials, loyal

2 citizens, et cetera?

3 JUDGE MAY: He has said that he doesn't know who killed them. So

4 there's no point going on about that.

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. Are you sure you don't know that the KLA killed them? Even the

7 assassination that you mentioned?

8 A. That's the job of the judiciary and the authorities to find out

9 who killed them.

10 Q. All right. Do you know -- I mean, I was referring to Albanians

11 now because you're Albanian, but do you know how many Serbs were killed in

12 the territory of the municipality of Suva Reka? Bogdan Lazic in Suva Reka

13 itself, on the 23rd of March, for example? On the 23rd of March, three or

14 four days before what you've been testifying about. Then Zoran

15 Mihajlovic, Radovan Mihajlovic. All right, this was in Musutiste but all

16 of that is Suva Reka, but then this one was in Suva Reka. Do you know

17 about these killings?

18 A. I know on the 23rd of March Lazic was killed in a shop there, but

19 I know it was -- there were ten Albanians were killed by vendetta on a

20 street behind the post office. There was one woman and eight men and

21 still their bodies have still not been found. But it was a question of

22 vendetta, of blood feuding. They were in -- a question of retaliation,

23 rather. The police killed eight people, eight Albanians on the 23rd of

24 March. There was one woman and the rest were men.

25 Q. And tell me, please, how come you know that? Did you see that?

Page 7461

1 A. [Previous translation continues]... see them. My house is quite a

2 ways away, but I heard about it. And they still don't know where the

3 bodies are.

4 Q. So you don't know about who carried out the assassination, and you

5 say that it is for the judiciary to give their say. And as for these

6 Albanians that you did not see, you say that it was the police who killed

7 them. You know who did that.

8 A. Yes, because --

9 Q. But you didn't see that either, right?

10 A. The relatives of the people who were killed saw the police

11 shooting at their -- at their relatives. But they live quite a ways away

12 from where I live. And they said that the police entered the houses and

13 killed the people in retaliation.

14 Q. All right. All right, Mr. Berisha. Anyway, do you know how many

15 soldiers were killed in the territory of the municipality of Suva Reka,

16 how many policemen were killed in the territory of the municipality of

17 Suva Reka? Do you know anything about that, Mr. Berisha?

18 A. [Previous translation continues]... know. I don't know.

19 Q. Nothing? All right. Let's continue. So on Bajram, there was no

20 one at the mosque. No one was killed when the minaret was blown up. And

21 you say that they did not go to the mosque because they knew what would

22 happen. And you reject that it was the KLA that was on the minaret, that

23 their sniper was on the minaret and that they would not be crazy enough to

24 go there and risk losing their lives?

25 JUDGE MAY: No need to go into an argument about that. He's dealt

Page 7462

1 with it.

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. All right. You claim that a Serb policeman warned you to escape

4 to Albania, allegedly because of the danger of paramilitary forces; is

5 that right?

6 A. On the 28th of March, 1999, around 5.00 in the afternoon, maybe

7 5.20, I didn't -- don't remember the name of the policeman, but I think --

8 now I remember. It's Nojic Djura, a local policeman, was -- came into my

9 courtyard. Nojic Djura. I didn't remember at the time when I made the

10 statement. He said to me, "You have to make -- get yourselves ready

11 within 15 minutes, because they might come. The army and the police will

12 come and are going to kill you all. So get ready and go to Albania."

13 This was on the 28th of March, 1999.

14 So I had my family in Savrove, and my wife and I -- my brother was

15 still at the gas station, so my wife and I went on foot to Savrove to find

16 the rest of them. And the other members of my family had to get ready as

17 well as they could, with their tractors and cars, and set off for Albania.

18 On that day, there was a -- there were a lot of people from

19 Suhareke leaving.

20 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Berisha, was the policeman your neighbour at that

21 time?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. Yes, he was. But he was

23 wearing camouflage -- a camouflage uniform at that time.

24 JUDGE KWON: What was the atmosphere like when he told you to

25 leave the village? Was it like a threat to you or was it a kind of some

Page 7463

1 friendly advice being concerned with the safety of your family?

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. He said literally, "Go to

3 Albania, because others are going to come." We didn't ask who the others

4 would be. And they were -- "They're going to slit your throats." Those

5 were his words.

6 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.

7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. Mr. Berisha, you said just now he said, "Go to Albania because

9 others would come."

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. And you did not even ask him who these others were; is that right?

12 And in the statement, you say that he said to you the paramilitary

13 formations would come, et cetera, et cetera. So as for the paramilitary

14 formations, that was your conclusion or you just invented that? Because

15 now you say that he said others would come, and you did not even ask him

16 who these others would be. Is that right or is that not right?

17 A. We knew who they would be. They were police from Serbia and

18 soldiers coming from Serbia. We knew that. There was no reason to ask.

19 JUDGE MAY: It's now time for the break. Mr. Milosevic, you've

20 had your three-quarters of an hour, but in view of the documents which

21 have been put in, which apparently had been disclosed earlier, but in view

22 of that, we will give you, if you want, some more time ask some questions

23 about them. Do you want to ask some questions about these documents or

24 not?

25 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Perhaps only a few. But not only

Page 7464

1 about the documents.

2 JUDGE MAY: You've had your three-quarters of an hour. You can

3 ask some questions about the documents, though, because it's right that

4 you should have time to do so. You can look at them during the break.

5 Ms. Romano, these documents have been put in in a totally

6 unsatisfactory state, I have to say. If documents are to be put before a

7 Court, they must be done in order. They must have a list attached to

8 them. They must be stapled together. They must be put in a workmanlike

9 form before the Court. And I have to tell you that if it's not done that

10 way, then the Trial Chamber will be minded to reject them, because we

11 simply can't get on with documents which just come in a pile to us.

12 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, these documents were not treated as

13 exhibits. They were treated as an attachment to the statement. That is

14 the form that was provided and disclosed, so that was the form we used.

15 But we're happy to just form a binder or anything else that can help the

16 Court.

17 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Thank you.

18 Mr. Berisha, we're going to adjourn now. Would you be back in 20

19 minutes to conclude your evidence. Would you remember meanwhile not to

20 speak to anybody about your evidence until it's over, and that does

21 include members of the Prosecution.

22 We will adjourn for 20 minutes.

23 --- Recess taken at 10.33 a.m.

24 --- On resuming at 10.52 a.m.

25 JUDGE MAY: Now, Mr. Milosevic, is there anything you want to ask

Page 7465

1 about these documents?

2 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] There is, but before I do that, I

3 have a couple of question which I think are important.

4 JUDGE MAY: Very well.

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] They will take perhaps one minute or

6 two, not more.

7 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

8 Q. On page 4, paragraph 4, you state that your son, together with

9 another six young men was arrested on the 16th of May. Were your son or

10 his friends abused, beaten, or mistreated in any way?

11 A. On the 15th of May, 1999, in my uncle's house, my son Luan and

12 eight others, my cousins, were present. And several policemen came and

13 said, "What are you doing here?" And then they came and -- and came --

14 there came a summons from Misko, who is head of the secret police in

15 Suhareke, and they didn't mistreat them but told them on the next day,

16 16th of May, at noon, to come to the municipality. And they asked my son

17 where your father is, and they told him to come to the municipality the

18 next day. To turn up at 12.00 the next day.

19 Q. All right. But if I understood you correctly, precisely that

20 person, Misko Nisavic, whom you mentioned a moment ago, after you came to

21 the municipal building at his request which he conveyed through your son,

22 that man apologised after your ten-minute discussion that he had to invite

23 you to the police station. Did he or any of his colleagues mistreat you?

24 A. On the next day, 16th of May, I and eight others went in front of

25 the municipality building and --

Page 7466

1 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, could you just concentrate on the

2 question. The question was were you mistreated? Perhaps you could just

3 answer that, please.

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, we were not mistreated.

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. All right. Now about these documents. You said that you had

7 found a floppy disk of some kind, including names and personal details of

8 soldiers, units they belonged to. You found that in the municipal

9 building, didn't you?

10 A. The material was presented to me in the name of -- about the

11 soldiers. It was brought by some citizens who found it in a computer, and

12 it shows the names, surnames of Serbian soldiers who were in Suhareke

13 region. There were about 600, 700 of them. And I have submitted it

14 because it shows the number of soldiers as they themselves describe

15 themselves present in my municipalities.

16 Q. All right. That means that all these papers originate from that

17 floppy disk; right? I just wish to say one thing. I checked with my

18 associate, Mr. Ognjenovic; we hadn't received this heap of paper before,

19 but I don't think it's very important in any case, because what we're

20 dealing here, in fact, with are lists of conscripts, then members of

21 staffs of civilian defence by municipalities.

22 Do you believe this to be important for your testimony,

23 Mr. Berisha? What is the significance of these documents?

24 JUDGE MAY: Now, I've told you before, it's not for the witness to

25 say. It's a matter for us.

Page 7467

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I consider --

2 JUDGE MAY: No.

3 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right.

4 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

5 Q. In that case, I also see here an Official Gazette designating

6 electoral units for the elections. It's blurred, but it must be 1990,

7 1991, or 1992. I also see conclusions about some schools. But most of

8 these papers are lists and records containing first, last names, fathers'

9 names, dates, addresses, telephone numbers of conscripts. Then we have a

10 record of motor vehicles, indicating their licence plates, then some

11 commendations.

12 JUDGE MAY: Now, have you got any questions? We can see that. It

13 may be you are right in what you say about the significance of these

14 documents, but that's going to be a matter we will have to determine in

15 due course. Now, we've got the witness here. You've got another two or

16 three questions. Yes.

17 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right. All right. No problem,

18 Mr. May. I have just one question.

19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. In what lies the importance of these papers, Mr. Berisha, in your

21 mind? Supplies and materiel, fuel, et cetera, what does this have to do

22 with your testimony?

23 A. I consider that these are rather important documents. First of

24 all, regarding the number of delegates at the Assembly of the

25 municipality, you can see that they were all the names of Serbs, even

Page 7468

1 though the proportion of the population in the municipality were 95 per

2 cent Albanians to 5 per cent Serbs, which shows that this Assembly had no

3 kind of legitimacy to decide in the name of Albanian citizens. That's the

4 significance of the documents I brought.

5 The second document in the Official Gazette, you can see the

6 cultural genocide --

7 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, I'm afraid we haven't got time to go

8 through all these documents, and with respect, it's going to be a matter

9 for us to decide the significance of them in the context of this trial

10 against this accused.

11 Now, Mr. Tapuskovic, have you got any questions?

12 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour. I have

13 just a couple of questions for Mr. Berisha.

14 Questioned by Mr. Tapuskovic:

15 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Berisha, before the 24th of March in 1998 and

16 until the 24th of March, did you know of any conflicts all over Kosovo

17 between the KLA and the Serb army and the police, especially in Drenica?

18 A. We were informed by the press and the media that there had been

19 clashes between the KLA and the Serbian army in Drenica, but only through

20 the press because travelling from -- to Prishtina and Prizren was very

21 difficult. So in November, after 1996, I didn't travel either to Prizren

22 or to Prishtina because of the danger on the roads and the police patrols,

23 and especially the checkpoint at Lubisht on the Suhareke-Prizren road and

24 the checkpoint of the Serbian police forces at Saraljeva on the

25 Suhareke-Prishtina road, so I never travelled after 1996.

Page 7469

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12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

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Page 7470

1 Q. Mr. Berisha, what I'm interested in is the following: Due to

2 these clashes that indeed existed, in your area where there were no

3 clashes, did people from those areas which were afflicted come to your

4 municipality to find shelter?

5 A. There were only isolated cases in our municipality. There were

6 not many, and mainly they took refuge in the villages round Suhareke, not

7 in the city. That is, before July 1998 -- June 1998.

8 Q. But for the most part, people migrated within the territory of

9 Kosovo to find cover and shelter.

10 A. That's right.

11 Q. Another thing I want to ask has to do with something you said in

12 your statement. You said at one point you found yourself in the village

13 of Buzhalle; is that correct? And at that moment in that house where you

14 spent a couple of days, there were about 130 people. That was in the

15 beginning of April.

16 A. This was from 29th March, 1999, until 3 -- 3rd of April. There

17 were 130 of us living in this house in Buzhalle. That was my family, the

18 family of my in-laws in Savrove, and family from Semetish and local people

19 from the house where we were staying. We were all together.

20 Q. And during the night, did you go to the basement?

21 A. This house didn't have a basement. It was a normal house. But it

22 merely had some woods nearby.

23 Q. I can understand that. But after that, you continued to say that

24 you went to Prizren, then you stayed with your aunt, and you left Kosovo

25 sometime after the 21st of May; is that correct? Well, in this regard, I

Page 7471

1 would like to know the following: Do you know that the NATO bombed

2 Kosovo, among other areas, that bombs fell in Kosovo too?

3 A. On the 3rd of April, my two sons and I didn't go to Prizren, but

4 it was my brother, Afrim, and we took shelter in the woods. After two

5 days they returned to Prizren because the police sent them back. And Luan

6 and Shyqet, my two sons and I, stayed in the mountains. And during that

7 time, we heard explosions during the night, and we don't know where these

8 bombs of NATO forces were falling because we didn't have any information.

9 We didn't have any television or radio, we just heard these explosions

10 during the night. And when they were closer, the explosions were closer

11 and when they were further off, they were fainter. But we didn't know

12 where they were falling.

13 And then until the night of 30th April to 1st of May, I was in the

14 woods. And then I came down to Suhareke, to my aunt's house, Hajrie

15 Gashi, and stayed there until the 21st of May. On 21st of May at 10 --

16 JUDGE MAY: Let's deal with this. Mr. Tapuskovic, do you have any

17 other questions you want to ask?

18 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] No. I only wanted to know in

19 this regard whether he knew that there were victims both among Albanians

20 and Serbs and whether those bombs created fear among them. That's all I

21 wanted to know. Was he afraid that he could be killed himself?

22 A. There were no -- there was nobody killed by NATO bombs in

23 Suhareke, in the town, and the Albanian population was not at all

24 frightened of the NATO bombing. And I was there until 21st of May, and

25 then I was deported to Albania. On that day, there were about 5.000

Page 7472

1 people deported from Suhareke.

2 MR. TAPUSKOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.

3 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Wladimiroff.

4 MR. WLADIMIROFF: If the Court will allow me, I have a few

5 questions related to the documents, just to clarify.

6 JUDGE MAY: Well, I think our rule was only one amicus --

7 MR. WLADIMIROFF: I realize that, Your Honour.

8 JUDGE MAY: -- but as an exception, yes.

9 MR. WLADIMIROFF: I'm very grateful.

10 Questioned by Mr. Wladimiroff:

11 Q. Witness, you told the Court you did not find the floppy disk

12 yourself; is that right?

13 A. Yes, that's right. I just got the material.

14 Q. Who gave it to you? Could you give us a name?

15 A. A citizen brought it to my office.

16 Q. And are you prepared to --

17 A. And it was photocopied.

18 Q. I'm referring to the floppy disk, so I take it that that was not

19 photocopied, was it?

20 A. No, no. It was copied from the computer. And I received the

21 material, I didn't get the disk.

22 Q. Right. So you did not print it yourself.

23 A. No.

24 Q. Right. Thank you. I've got a few questions about the documents

25 which were not from the floppy disk. Did you find these documents

Page 7473

1 yourself?

2 A. I found the other documents in the office where I'd worked from

3 the 8th of October, 1990 to -- up to the 30th of October, 2000, when I was

4 deputy chief of the board. I found the material in the office. Whereas

5 the first documents were given to me -- were handed over to me when I was

6 there.

7 Q. Right. Thank you. You made a documentation list, which you

8 handed over to the Prosecution, that lists all the documents you found; is

9 that right?

10 A. Yes.

11 Q. There is one document in this pile which is not listed? That's a

12 decision to appoint managerial organs in the Jovanovic Zmaj Cultural

13 Institute of Suva Reka. Is that one of the documents you found or is that

14 document mistakenly in the pile?

15 A. I don't know, but normally all the documents there were found in

16 my office, except for the first, which we mentioned, which were given to

17 me in the office.

18 Q. I will show you a document very quickly, and if you can tell the

19 Court whether that's one of the documents you found in your office,

20 because it's not on your list.

21 MR. WLADIMIROFF: May I ask the assistance of the usher.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] That's what I found in the office

23 when I went back to work.

24 MR. WLADIMIROFF:

25 Q. Thank you.

Page 7474

1 MR. WLADIMIROFF: It is in the pile, Your Honours, after number 9,

2 but it is not listed, just to clarify.

3 Q. I've got a question related to document number 3 in your pile, and

4 again I will quickly ask the usher to show it to you.

5 A. This is a list.

6 Q. In your statement, you say this is a list of armed Serbs of the

7 Unit of Gypsy Slayers. Do you remember that?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Why do you say so? Because the document does not indicate

10 anything of that kind.

11 A. The people in the list are all local Serbs from the villages, from

12 the various villages. They wrote that themselves, Romi Koljaci. That's

13 Gypsy Slayers. I didn't write it myself. It was a photocopy for -- about

14 the Commander Sinisic.

15 Q. I understand what you say, but where do you see on the document

16 that this is related to the Unit of Gypsy Slayers?

17 A. On the other side. On the other part.

18 Q. Right. Okay. Thank you very much.

19 A. With their -- in their writing.

20 Q. Thank you. And then I've got a question about document number 4.

21 MR. WLADIMIROFF: May I ask the usher again to show it to the

22 witness, please. The second page.

23 Q. Is that your handwriting?

24 A. No. This is their handwriting about the massacre in the village

25 of Trnje on the 25th of May in 1999 when a lot of people were killed.

Page 7475

1 Q. We can read that.

2 A. They wrote it. They wrote it in Cyrillic script.

3 Q. You assume that Serbs wrote it?

4 A. Yes, of course.

5 Q. All right. Thank you very much. Thank you. Now I've got a

6 question about the photograph. That's number 5 off the list.

7 A. This is a person from Reshane, the village of Reshane.

8 Q. Wait a minute. Do not answer things I did not ask you. Whose

9 handwriting is that? Would you know that?

10 A. It's the person -- the handwriting of the person in question in

11 Cyrillic there.

12 Q. The person in question is the person on the photograph?

13 A. On the other side, the back of the photograph.

14 Q. All right.

15 A. Yes. But it's on the back of -- it was written on the back of the

16 photograph. It's that person.

17 Q. That's clarified. Thank you very much. And then I've got a final

18 question about number 13. Do you know whose handwriting this is?

19 A. I found this in the office where I was working, where the head of

20 the board, Stanislav Andjelkovic, had been working. That's his

21 handwriting. I recognise his handwriting. And there's also a number of

22 his -- of my, rather -- my telephone number is at the bottom.

23 Q. Did you take this page out of a bundle of pages or was it just

24 that page you found on his desk?

25 A. No. I took it out of the calendar. And it's my writing in the

Page 7476

1 corner there.

2 Q. Thank you.

3 MR. WLADIMIROFF: That's all I ask, Your Honours, just to clarify.

4 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Ms. Romano.

5 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, I don't have any further questions for

6 the witness. I just have one clarification about the disclosure. The

7 statement in English was disclosed on the 25th of January, 2002, and the

8 B/C/S on 15 April, and the attachments, both in English and B/C/S, on the

9 22nd of May. So the accused had them before. And I think it's

10 highlighted also by Mr. Wladimiroff. In the statement there is the list

11 of all the documents in the pile. I know that, unfortunately, that was

12 not provided in accordance of your satisfactory, but I think it's -- at

13 least you have the list in the statement. And again, I just highlight the

14 fact that these documents are attachment to the statement and in order to

15 complete the statement provided by the witness and by the facts that he

16 related upon discrimination and the removal of his position.

17 JUDGE MAY: So you're not seeking to have them exhibited.

18 MS. ROMANO: No. I seek to have them exhibited as part of the

19 statement in order to clarify and complement the statement.

20 JUDGE MAY: It's a distinction, if I may say, without a

21 difference. I mean, either they're going to be exhibited or not.

22 MS. ROMANO: No. The request is to be exhibited, and the

23 relevance is up to the Court to give it later on. But I just want to

24 clarify that they complement the statement of the accused and the -- not

25 the accused, sorry, the witness.

Page 7477

1 JUDGE MAY: Very well. They will be part of Exhibit 240, if I

2 recollect rightly.

3 Yes.

4 Questioned by the Court:

5 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Berisha, let's go back to the 26th of March,

6 1999. In your statement, you wrote that around 2.30 in the afternoon, you

7 went to the Gashi family neighbourhood, and you rang your brother Jashar,

8 and you heard from Jashar that Jashar had heard that -- he heard that some

9 -- shooting, exploding, and people screaming from the shopping centre and

10 that Sedat, Nexhat, and Bujar had died there. Is it right? Do you know

11 if there were any survivors from the scene?

12 A. Yes, that's true. There were two women, Vjollca and Gramozi, a

13 son, and Shyhrete Berisha, who survived the massacre. Vjollca, Gramozi

14 and the third one, Shyhrete Berisha. They survived.

15 JUDGE KWON: Do you know where they are, the survivors, at this

16 point?

17 A. Vjollca and Gramozi in Suhareke. She works in a factory and

18 Gramozi is in school. I visited them at home.

19 JUDGE KWON: Do you know what happened to the corpses of the

20 bodies who died there?

21 A. We do know now that they're in a mass grave in Belgrade, and we're

22 waiting for the UNMIK authorities in Prishtina to request that the Serb

23 authorities return the bodies. They were -- according to the newspapers,

24 they were in mass graves in blankets. We found that out from the

25 Prishtina office, that during the exhumation of bodies in Belgrade, some

Page 7478

1 documents of family members, of my family members were found there. And

2 Lirije Berisha in particular, who was pregnant, she was in the eighth

3 month of pregnancy, her body was recognised because of the baby in her

4 body. And we're asking the authorities, the UNMIK authorities in

5 Prishtina, to do what they can to get the bodies returned.

6 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Berisha.

7 And I have a point to raise to the Prosecution. My understanding

8 is that this witness, Mr. Berisha, was brought to give evidence regarding

9 the indictment, 66[D] or Schedule K in the Suva Reka killing, and I heard

10 that there are some survivors.

11 MS. ROMANO: Your Honour, it's specific for the facts that

12 happened in the coffee shop in the Suva Reka event. The proper witness

13 would be Shyhrete Berisha who will testify, I think, probably next week.

14 And he gave evidence but more hearsay evidence. Specifically, that fact

15 and the killings that occurred in the coffee shop, we have the witness

16 next week.

17 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.

18 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, that concludes your evidence. Thank you

19 for coming to the International Tribunal to give it. You are free to go.

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

21 [The witness withdrew]

22 MS. ROMANO: We have the other witness, who is Hysni Berisha.

23 Your Honours, while we wait for the witness. If I may address the

24 Court also in order to not get any problems in the future, we have

25 attachments to the statement again, and they are three attachments. They

Page 7479

1 consist a map, a list, and a sketch. And I will just go, with the

2 witness, while I will be making the summary, because we have also photos

3 in the Suva Reka binder that you will be able to address.

4 JUDGE MAY: If there are a few attachments, it's not a difficulty.

5 It's if there are a large pile, as we had in the last one.

6 MS. ROMANO: I'm afraid it's a little bit big because the list is

7 extensive, but they are in fact three.

8 [The witness entered court]

9 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the witness take the declaration.

10 WITNESS: HYSNI BERISHA

11 [Witness answered through interpreter]

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

13 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

14 JUDGE MAY: If you'd like to take a seat.

15 Examined by Ms. Romano:

16 Q. Mr. Berisha, can you please state your full name to the Court.

17 A. Yes. My name is Hysni Sylejman Berisha.

18 Q. Mr. Berisha, were you born on 12 April 1948, in Suva Reka?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. What is your profession?

21 A. I'm a lawyer.

22 Q. Mr. Berisha, you provided a statement to the Office of the

23 Prosecutor on the 20 August of 2001; is that correct?

24 A. Yes, that's true.

25 Q. And on 13 March 2002, in Suva Reka, you attended a meeting with a

Page 7480

1 representative of the Registrar, and you were informed about the contents

2 of your statement. You had your statement read out to you, and you had

3 the opportunity to review it and to ascertain if the contents that the

4 written statement were true; is that correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And you also made an addendum to your statement?

7 A. Yes.

8 MS. ROMANO: The Prosecution submits the statement and attachments

9 into evidence.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 241 for the original and 241A

11 for the redacted version.

12 MS. ROMANO: The witness is currently the chairman of the

13 Association for Missing Persons and Victims of War in Suva Reka. He

14 describes the events in Suva Reka after the OSCE evacuated on 20 March

15 1999. He heard gunfire and could see flames coming from houses near the

16 technical school on Restane road. On the morning of the 26 March 1999,

17 Serb forces started to shell around Suva Reka, using tanks and Pragas.

18 The witness saw many police moving towards a house across from the police

19 station. About two to three hours later, he heard shooting from the

20 police station in the vicinity of Sedat Berisha's house and saw smoke and

21 flames coming from that direction.

22 The following day, on seeing the police continue to torch

23 buildings, the witness took his family to the home of a neighbour where

24 there were 10 [sic] to 100 people sheltering in the basement. They left

25 and went to a field where they were soon surrounded by paramilitaries who

Page 7481

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Page 7482

1 demanded money and valuables from them. One of these paramilitaries

2 grabbed the witness's daughter and threatened to shoot her unless the

3 witness handed money over. The commander intervened and released the

4 witness's child, telling the witness, "Go to Albania."

5 The witness set off in convoy. On the 15th of April they were

6 again robbed by paramilitaries, of approximately 4.000 Deutschmarks before

7 being allowed to continue on to Prizren. En route, a number of civilians

8 were wounded and killed by Serb forces. On the outskirts of Prizren, the

9 convoy was told to return to their place of origin.

10 Upon his return to Suva Reka on or about the 6th April, the

11 witness saw buildings burning and found that his home had been looted.

12 Over the ensuing days, he observed numerous Serb forces in military jeeps

13 and stolen vehicles around the town. They were looting shops and homes.

14 On the 12th May, the witness observed a column of approximately

15 50.000 civilians pass through Suva Reka. He spoke with some of them and

16 was told that there had been a Serb offensive in the village of Budakove.

17 They had been ordered by paramilitaries to go to Albania. The witness

18 remained in Suva Reka until 21st May, 1999 when he was again ordered by

19 Serb forces to leave Kosovo.

20 The witness names those responsible as paramilitary and local

21 police. He went to Prizren and stayed at a relative's home until KFOR

22 arrived. The witness followed KFOR into Suva Reka on the 13 June 1999.

23 Thereafter, the witness assisted the British forensic team and

24 undertook an investigation into the Berisha family massacre and the events

25 at the coffee shop on the 26 March 1999. He describes the location of the

Page 7483

1 items of clothing and artefacts at the murder scenes, victims' homes, and

2 at the cemetery. He produces a number of documents in relation to his

3 investigation. The witness gives a breakdown of the numbers of persons

4 killed and missing in the Suva Reka municipality and the number and type

5 of buildings destroyed.

6 Q. Mr. Berisha, attached to your statement there is a map and there

7 is a list of names of missing people. Did you do the list? Did you

8 produce this list?

9 A. Yes. I drew it up. The list and the map of the graves.

10 MS. ROMANO: Can I please have the usher show the witness the

11 drawing of the graves. And I also need the witness to be shown the Suva

12 Reka binder. I believe it's Exhibit number 166, tab 3. In the tab 3. I

13 think I open here, maybe it's easier for you.

14 Q. Tab 3 are photos K0141454 on. Mr. Berisha, can you explain first

15 what the sketch is? Your sketch, Mr. Berisha.

16 MS. ROMANO: The usher, can you please put first the sketch, the

17 sketch that the witness has. Yes. Thanks.

18 Q. Can you just very briefly explain to the Court what is this

19 sketch? What did you draw in this sketch?

20 A. This sketch shows one of the four graveyards in Suhareke created

21 after the war. This is according to the -- the code is number 1, the

22 grave of the Berisha family, as buried by the Serbian forces. These were

23 people massacred in the massacre of 25th of March --

24 Q. Mr. Berisha --

25 A. -- in Suhareke and other villages.

Page 7484

1 Q. Thank you. Mr. Berisha, that photo -- the usher can please put

2 the photo -- is exactly what you tried to draw in your sketch?

3 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreters request the witness to speak

4 into the microphone.

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is photograph --

6 JUDGE MAY: Could you speak into the microphone, please. I know

7 it's difficult to look at it, but could you please speak into the

8 microphone.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] This is the same thing and I did it

10 in the sketch form, in the simple form myself. This is the

11 Suhareke-Rreshtan-Pecan crossroads. These are the Berisha family graves.

12 MS. ROMANO:

13 Q. Thank you.

14 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, also in relation to the statement and

15 the witness also, the facts that the witness is able to testify relate to

16 the identification of the clothing and some artefacts from the victims of

17 Suva Reka while he was in the -- following the British forensic team. And

18 they are reflected in the Suva Reka binder, in tabs 3 that are the photos,

19 tabs 4 and 5. I -- unless the Court wants, I don't think we need to show

20 the witness them.

21 Thank you, Mr. Berisha. And that's all.

22 JUDGE MAY: Yes. The photograph can come back.

23 Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

24 Cross-examined by Mr. Milosevic:

25 Q. [Interpretation] Is it correct here where your details are

Page 7485

1 provided that you were a lawyer?

2 A. I was not -- I was not a lawyer but in translation from Albanian

3 into English it has come out like that. I was a legal officer in a

4 construction enterprise.

5 Q. And what did you do as a legal officer in a construction company?

6 A. I was an administrative worker.

7 Q. Can one infer, therefore, that in terms of schooling or experience

8 you have no experience whatsoever in investigations related to the

9 commission of crimes and similar investigations?

10 A. I'm not a judicial expert, and I haven't gone into this question

11 professionally, but I've gone into these questions from a humanitarian

12 point of view, and I have submitted to the Court material for -- to aid

13 their prosecution and about your staff that worked in Suhareke

14 municipality.

15 Q. All right. In your statement, you say that from the 13th of June,

16 you started -- onwards, you started with investigations. Is that correct?

17 A. It's true. On the 13th of June, after the NATO troops entered, I

18 started investigating the graves of my family, the Berishas, and of

19 others.

20 Q. And in which field or, rather, in which area did you carry out

21 your investigations, only in Orahovac or elsewhere?

22 A. First of all, I investigated, as I said before, the fate of my own

23 relatives, and later the need arose to investigate further cases in the

24 municipality of Suhareke.

25 Q. All right. And how did you investigate? Did you observe things

Page 7486

1 directly or by way of collecting some kind of evidence or in some other

2 way? How did you investigate?

3 A. First we started investigations by examining the houses where

4 massacres were committed, and there we found evidence of crimes.

5 Q. And in connection with which incidents and which events did you

6 carry out investigations, except for what you said at the beginning with

7 regard to your family, that is?

8 A. I conducted investigations of all the massacres that took place in

9 Suhareke municipality from 22nd of March to the 2nd of June, 1999.

10 Q. And were you dealing with all events, if I understood you

11 correctly? You said all of them, or were you dealing with Albanians only?

12 If you dealt with everything, then did you deal with the non-Albanian

13 population that were victims as well?

14 A. I said that I based my investigations on the massacres committed

15 between 26th of March and the 6th of June, 1999. And I didn't go into

16 incidents that took place after the 13th of June because KFOR were there

17 and they were able to look into these things under their responsibility.

18 Q. All right. But as for the periods that you dealt with, with all

19 these events, these criminal offences that you investigated, it is certain

20 that there were also non-Albanian victims. Have you dealt with a single

21 non-Albanian victim?

22 A. As for identifying missing persons, this process is still

23 continuing. We are still investigating these matters. And all cases that

24 are submitted to the association for the investigation of missing persons

25 are looked into. We look into all these cases.

Page 7487

1 Q. Mr. Berisha, I asked you about what you said in your answer to the

2 previous question, that you dealt with all events in that period that you

3 mentioned. When you say "all," that presupposes everybody, not only

4 Albanians, and I asked you whether you had a single example of having

5 dealt with a victim who was not Albanian. Just tell me yes or no.

6 A. There were no non-Albanian victims. I don't know of a single

7 case.

8 Q. All right. You say that you were observing the Serb forces moving

9 in your town in order to inform people around you. Is that correct?

10 That's on page number 2, in paragraph number 2 of your statement.

11 A. Could you ask that question again, please?

12 Q. You say that you were observing Serb forces as they were moving in

13 your town so that you could inform the people who lived around you; is

14 that correct?

15 A. That's true.

16 Q. And who are these people that you informed?

17 A. The defenseless civilian population.

18 Q. Were they the same thing that you were? Were they the same as

19 you?

20 A. Yes. I was one of these civilians.

21 Q. Does that mean that they themselves could not see where the Serb

22 forces were moving?

23 A. People who saw these things made their own observations.

24 Q. And is it correct that the OSCE was stationed across the street

25 from the Secretariat of the Interior in Suva Reka?

Page 7488

1 A. Not exactly opposite.

2 Q. All right. Did the OSCE function normally in Suva Reka?

3 A. I don't know what you mean by that.

4 Q. I am asking whether the OSCE normally functioned in Suva Reka,

5 whether they were carrying out their tasks, performing the functions for

6 which they were there. It was you who observed everything?

7 A. In the period that I was discussing, there were no OSCE people in

8 Suhareke.

9 Q. All right. But you lived in Suva Reka. And I'm asking you about

10 the OSCE in Suva Reka, before they withdrew, that is to say until the 20th

11 of March, 1999.

12 A. The OSCE did not withdraw on the 20th of March but on the 18th.

13 Q. All right. You say that on the 26th of March, at 8.00, the

14 shelling of Suva Reka started. Until then, it had been peaceful. And you

15 say that the OSCE was there until the 18th. Now, please answer the

16 following question: Do you know anything about any crimes committed by

17 the KLA in 1998 and 1999 in the area of Suva Reka until that 26th of

18 March?

19 A. Perhaps you haven't understood my statement properly, because my

20 description starts on the 26th of March, the first massacre at 6.30 in the

21 morning when the Serbian forces killed 36 civilians, and then in the

22 second massacre in which 48 members of the Berisha family were killed.

23 Q. All right. You do say, though, that on the 26th of March at 8.00,

24 the shelling of Suva Reka started. That's page 2, paragraph 4. You say

25 that this was a usual occurrence which had been going on since August

Page 7489

1 1998. That's what you said. So on the basis of that, one can infer what

2 I've been asking you about. Are you claiming that Suva Reka was shelled

3 while the OSCE was still there? Because I never found that in the OSCE

4 reports, so I'm surprised, and I would like you to clarify the situation

5 for me.

6 A. It's not true that Suhareke was shelled, either in 1998 or 1999.

7 There were positions in various villages that were shelled from Suhareke.

8 Q. What do you mean "shelled from Suva Reka"?

9 A. Suhareke was under a steel siege, and there were Serbian military

10 forces stationed in -- around Suhareke in the place known as Birac, in

11 Damper, and in the vineyards. They -- there was heavy military equipment

12 stationed there in the vineyards, and this was used to shell --

13 Q. Mr. Berisha, that's not what I'm asking you. I wanted to clarify

14 what you wrote here in your statement. You said that on the -- this is

15 the penultimate paragraph on the first page of the statement, which is

16 actually number 2 because first is the page with your details. And then

17 it says: "The following morning on the 26th of March, 1999 about 8.00

18 a.m. in the morning, the Serbs commenced to shell around Suva Reka from

19 the hill behind the township." Full stop. "This was a usual occurrence

20 which had been going on since August 1998." Full stop. So you say that on

21 the 26th of March, the shelling started and this was a usual thing because

22 it had been going on since August 1998. And I asked you does that mean

23 that even while the OSCE was there - and they were there from October

24 until March 1999 - and I didn't find anything about this shelling in any

25 one of the OSCE reports so I'm asking you whether it is your claim that

Page 7490

1 from August 1998 onwards the shelling of Suva Reka was a usual occurrence,

2 as you put in your statement. I just quoted your statement to you so

3 could you please explain that.

4 A. It's not true what you say. The truth is that these positions,

5 Yugoslav army positions, were used to shell the villages from these

6 positions around Suhareke. I didn't say that Suhareke itself was shelled.

7 A part of Suhareke was burned in July 1998 by Serbian forces.

8 Q. All right. I won't comment on the fact that in not a single OSCE

9 report is this shelling mentioned. But let's come back to the first

10 paragraph on page 3. You said that on the 21st of March -- 28th of March

11 1999, you left the basement where you had hidden with your family. Why

12 did you go to that basement in the first place? You and 70 or 100 other

13 people which you say -- who you say were in the basement with you. Why

14 did you take cover there?

15 A. I described how on 26th of March, how the massacre of the Berisha

16 family took place. On the 27th, the police started burning the houses in

17 the part of town where the massacre took place, and they reached my house

18 where I was with my family and some neighbours. And we thought that they

19 would come to us, so we decided to go to a basement to protect ourselves.

20 Q. Okay. But you say on page 3 of your statement -- you explain how

21 the Serbs always went in to attack in the morning, and you went into the

22 basement in the evening. Were you perhaps taking cover from NATO bombing

23 in that basement, Mr. Berisha?

24 A. I know that you're trying to get -- get away the truth, but I am

25 saying that every morning the shelling started in the direction of the

Page 7491

1 villages. This was an operation against the civilian population. You

2 yourself know how you organised it. This wasn't the -- it wasn't the

3 reason that we went to the cellar because we were scared of NATO. NATO

4 never bombed Suhareke. Nor were we ever afraid of NATO attacks. They

5 were our rescuers.

6 Q. Well, do you know that at least 5.000 tonnes of bombs were dropped

7 on Kosovo? Do you really think that no one could have been killed by

8 them, by those saviour bombs of which there were 500 -- 5.000 tonnes?

9 JUDGE MAY: This is all a matter of argument.

10 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right.

11 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. Then tell me, if you were not taking cover -- you said a moment

13 ago that Serbs shelled from Suva Reka the villages around Suva Reka, and I

14 understood that you said they were shelling Suva Reka. What is it exactly

15 that you claim; that they shelled Suva Reka or that they shelled villages

16 around Suva Reka from Suva Reka?

17 JUDGE MAY: He has made that quite plain. He has said they did

18 not shell Suva Reka itself but shelling the villages around. That's what

19 you asked him.

20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That was a question that referred to

21 1998, Mr. May.

22 JUDGE MAY: When you're asking him, which day are you asking about

23 now?

24 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The 26th of March. The period from

25 the 26th of March. That's what we're talking about now.

Page 7492

1 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Can you deal with that, Mr. Berisha? Were they

2 shelling at Suva Reka itself or were they shelling the villages, from the

3 26th of March?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. The shelling

5 continued from the same positions where Serbian forces had been stationed.

6 These were military and police forces. The shelling of the villages never

7 stopped in 1999. It -- but in the town of Suhareke, it wasn't shelling,

8 it was an infantry offensive in March 1999 where they came into houses and

9 killed innocent civilians.

10 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

11 Q. All right. All right. We have clarified that.

12 Since you claim that you were not hiding from bombs in that

13 basement, does that mean that when the police were attacking you, as you

14 say, you were inside houses targeted by the police, and when the police

15 withdrew during the night, you were in shelters? Is that a fact that I am

16 supposed to infer from your testimony?

17 A. The truth is that we took shelter in the cellar because of our

18 insecurity. Because at 1.00 in the morning, on the basis of the fact that

19 most police operations took place in the early hours of the morning, I and

20 others had to flee from the cellar and take refuge in -- elsewhere.

21 Q. All right. From that shelter you went to a house about one and a

22 half kilometres away; is that correct?

23 A. I'm not sure exactly how far it was, but we did go.

24 Q. Yes. And whose house was that, and how did you happen to go

25 there? Why did you decide to go there?

Page 7493

1

2

3

4

5

6

7

8

9

10

11

12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and

13 English transcripts.

14

15

16

17

18

19

20

21

22

23

24

25

Page 7494

1 A. We decided to go there, as I explained, for safety. And the house

2 belonged to my cousin Idriz Berisha.

3 Q. How many of you were there and who was there with you?

4 A. Three families went. That is my own, my brother's, and my

5 cousin's. I mean with our families.

6 Q. You state that members of paramilitary units arrived on the 3rd of

7 April, 1999. They reached that house. They had AK-47 automatic rifles;

8 is that correct?

9 A. The truth is that on 3rd of April, 1999, at about 9.00 in the

10 morning, the Serbian police started a lightning offensive in Suhareke. I

11 saw them arriving, burning houses from the western end of Suhareke towards

12 the north, where I was sheltering. And towards the afternoon, they were

13 advancing, always burning houses and firing guns.

14 Q. And you also say that they had AK-47 automatic rifles; is that

15 right? That's what's written in your description.

16 A. I'm not a weapons expert, but I know that they were armed. They

17 had -- they carried firearms and also knives.

18 Q. And not being an expert, why do you claim they were armed with

19 AK-47s?

20 A. I saw their automatic rifles myself because they were pointed

21 against me and at my daughter.

22 Q. And you know that those were AK-47 automatic rifles?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. And do you know that AK-47 is the principal weapon of the KLA and

25 not the army of Yugoslavia?

Page 7495

1 A. Perhaps it was, but maybe it wasn't as you think.

2 Q. And do you know that in all OSCE reports the -- this rifle is

3 described as the weapon of choice for the KLA?

4 JUDGE MAY: He's dealt with that. You don't have to answer again.

5 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

6 Q. All right. And do you know --

7 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Because he was involved and carried

8 out investigations. He told me himself, Mr. May.

9 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

10 Q. Do you know that Suva Reka was one of the main channels for the

11 transport of weapons from Albania and precisely this type of weapon,

12 AK-47, was brought in from Albania in enormous quantities, especially

13 after the crisis in Albania, looting of warehouses belonging to the army,

14 et cetera? Are you aware of this?

15 A. I described the case that happened to me and other things that

16 were happening at that time. The Serbian army and police came in police

17 camouflage uniforms, and they had on their arms the red, white, and blue

18 flag. And they threatened us with guns. They took my daughter out of a

19 car and stood her up against a wall and, with the same guns, they also

20 threatened me. I'm talking about a specific incident. I'm not conducting

21 an analysis.

22 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Do you know anything about the transport of

23 weapons by the KLA from Albania?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. I know nothing about this, Your

25 Honour.

Page 7496

1 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

2 Q. Mr. Berisha, you've just said that they had armbands on their

3 arms; red, white, and blue. Do you know that red, white, and blue is the

4 Croatian flag, whereas red, blue and white is the Serbian flag?

5 JUDGE MAY: Yes, we'll adjourn, the lights having gone out,.

6 Mr. Berisha, would you be back in 20 minutes, please. Don't speak

7 to anybody about your evidence meanwhile.

8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm at your disposal. Thank you.

9 --- Recess taken at 12.15 p.m.

10 --- On resuming at 12.38 p.m.

11 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic.

12 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

13 Q. Let us continue where we left off. Of course I'm not suggesting

14 that those were Croats. What I'm suggesting is that since you described

15 them wrongly as far as the Yugoslav flag is concerned, I'm suggesting that

16 you simply didn't know enough to tell.

17 JUDGE MAY: What are you suggesting is wrong with his description?

18 You must put it to him in terms so that he can understand it.

19 What was the armband you say these troops would have worn?

20 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] The armband he described was red,

21 white, and blue. Those are the colours of the flags of all Yugoslav

22 peoples, but red, white, and blue is the Croatian colour, whereas red,

23 blue, and white is the Serbian flag. Since he claims he saw it, if he had

24 really seen it, he would have said red, blue, and white. But since he

25 didn't see it, in actual fact, then he confused the colours.

Page 7497

1 JUDGE MAY: By no means is it easy to understand what distinction

2 you're making. Now, he's described what he saw.

3 Can you say what order these colours were on the armband?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I see the accused is

5 trying to turn things upside-down. It's not true. Or maybe it's an

6 interpretation problem, or maybe it's mine. I didn't say what he says I

7 said. I said that they were red and white, whereas -- and blue was the

8 uniform, was the colour of the uniform. Whereas I don't think the details

9 of the colours are that important. But they had tattoos with -- with --

10 on their arms with the four Cs of the Serb sign, the CCCC on their arms.

11 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. All right. You had uniforms but you saw that they had tattoos on

13 their arms.

14 A. I said several times what they were like.

15 Q. Those people you speak about, were they in fact members of the KLA

16 involved in battles in Suva Reka?

17 A. There was no UCK, no KLA, in Suhareke. There was Serb police and

18 police from Serbia. Because in my statement I said I saw them, and I said

19 that they had -- I saw them. They had come from Serbia. They were police

20 from Serbia.

21 Q. So you know that too, that the police had come from outside

22 Kosovo, the police that you saw?

23 A. The person who presented himself as commander said, "We are from

24 Serbia."

25 Q. Did he introduce himself to you?

Page 7498

1 A. Yes. I had communicated. I talked to him when they threatened to

2 execute my daughter.

3 Q. On the same page, you say that those people ordered you to leave

4 Kosovo. Is that your testimony?

5 A. Once they stole our valuables, our money, they ordered us to take

6 off for Albania.

7 Q. And do you know about the order of the KLA that people should

8 leave Kosovo and go to Macedonia and Albania?

9 A. No, I don't know anything about such an order. But I know that

10 the Serb police threw us out of our homes and out of the country.

11 Q. All right. But you go on to say, and I'm following up on what you

12 said, that the commander of the police, Milan Sipka, stopped you while you

13 were passing by the Progress factory and told you to go back home because

14 the border was sealed off; is that correct?

15 A. When we were being held hostage, all of us in the column of people

16 near the village of Korice, two days later we were ordered to carry on to

17 Albania. On the way, just on the outskirts of Prizren near the

18 pharmaceutical factory Farmakos, they forced us to go back. The order was

19 given by Milan Sipka, who had earlier been police chief in Suhareke. At

20 that time, he was a high police official in Prizren.

21 Q. Okay. Am I right in understanding you as follows: If the police

22 is not preventing you from going wherever you want - Macedonia, Albania,

23 it doesn't matter - they are then driving you out? And if they tell you

24 to stay at home, then they are keeping you hostage. Is that what you're

25 saying?

Page 7499

1 JUDGE MAY: I don't follow the point. Just a moment.

2 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm sorry --

3 JUDGE MAY: Just a moment. It's not a clear question. What is

4 the question, Mr. Milosevic?

5 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, the witness has explained that

6 they were turned back in order to keep them hostage. So if they tell them

7 to go home, that's because they want to keep them hostage. And if they

8 don't stand in their way and let them go wherever they want, he construes

9 that as expulsion. Do you understand now, Mr. May, what kind of wrong

10 description this is?

11 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Can you deal with that, Mr. Berisha?

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I see that the accused

13 is trying to turn things upside-down here once again. The truth is, and I

14 repeat it once again, on the 3rd of March, the Serb police threw us out of

15 our homes, expelled us and sent us to Albania after having robbed us. On

16 the way, near Malcija e Re, there was a long column of people, several

17 kilometres long, all defenseless civilians near the police station in

18 Lubisht. The police stopped us and wouldn't allow us to continue our

19 journey. There, they held us hostage for two days and two nights, robbing

20 us further and mistreating us further.

21 On the 5th of April, at around 12.00, they ordered us to continue

22 our journey to Albania. We continued, and we got to the outskirts of

23 Prizren near the factory, Farmakos factory, where they returned us back to

24 Suhareke.

25 This is the truth, and this is what the accused is attempting to

Page 7500

1 turn around, to dodge.

2 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

3 Q. All right. Please explain this, because you were there: He

4 stopped you. You say the commander of the police, Milan Sipka, stopped

5 you and told you to go home. Did you back to Suva Reka then?

6 A. Half the column returned and half stayed where it was. After

7 awhile, the other half was returned, escorted by the police all the time.

8 We returned in the direction of Suhareke, but we were not allowed to turn

9 off the road left or right, go anywhere else.

10 We arrived at Suhareke at about 9.00 in the evening, 21 hours.

11 The department store in Suhareke was near the -- near the department

12 store, there was a police postoblloke control point, and they asked us

13 where we were going. We told them that we had been returned from our

14 journey. One of them, Jovica Popovci, whom I knew, told me, "How can they

15 return you back to your homes when we've expelled you from your homes?" I

16 then told him of the order that Milan Sipka had given us and that that

17 should be checked and if the order is true or not.

18 JUDGE MAY: Now, Mr. Milosevic, you've got five minutes more.

19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, that's very little. Too

20 little time, Mr. May.

21 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

22 Q. You say that the police checked on you regularly from the moment

23 when you came back. Did they do that in order to establish whether the

24 KLA was dropping in on you or whether there were any activities going on

25 or did anyone mistreat you?

Page 7501

1 A. The KLA wasn't active in Suhareke or around the town. As to

2 mistreatment, of course there was mistreatment. We were also robbed.

3 Q. All right. In your statement, you say that you did not obey the

4 order to fill back the trenches dug by the KLA; is that correct?

5 A. The five-member police patrol, among whom was a Sinisa Andrejevic,

6 whom I knew, Petkovic Miki, and a Goran called Ramiz, and a person called

7 Gogic --

8 JUDGE MAY: Could you just deal with the point, please.

9 Mr. Berisha, could you just deal with the point, because time is short.

10 What's alleged is that you were ordered to fill in trenches, but you

11 didn't. Could you just deal with that.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The truth is that I didn't fill in

13 the trenches, no.

14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. What were those trenches?

16 A. You know better than I would.

17 Q. Where were they dug?

18 A. You would know better, and you would have better information on

19 that than I do.

20 JUDGE MAY: No. Mr. Berisha, I know it may be provoking to have

21 to answer these questions, but they're perfectly proper ones. Now, where

22 were the trenches, please? Can you help us with that?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I didn't go to see them because I

24 didn't take part in the filling up of the trenches.

25 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

Page 7502

1 Q. All right. Did the KLA shoot from those trenches at the police?

2 Just say yes or no, please. Time is short. It's flying.

3 A. I don't have any information that the KLA ever shot from there,

4 no.

5 Q. All right. In your statement, you say that you stayed in Prizren

6 until the 13th of June. Is that correct? Yes or no.

7 A. That's true, yes.

8 Q. Does that mean that nobody expelled you from there?

9 A. No, because they didn't know where we were taking refuge at the

10 time.

11 Q. All right. And is it correct that you went to Prizren to hide

12 from the fighting between the KLA and the army and the police on the other

13 hand? Just yes or no.

14 A. No. I went there after the Yugoslav police expelled the whole

15 population of Suhareke on the 21st of May.

16 Q. All right. On page 6, you say that at 1500 hours, when you

17 started all this in the month of June, you started your investigation in

18 places where members of your family were killed. Is that what you stated?

19 A. Yes, that's true. I began investigations there.

20 Q. You further say that you went to the cafe in the northern part of

21 Suva Reka; is that correct?

22 A. Yes, where the massacre took place.

23 Q. You say that the cafe had been burnt down and that all the windows

24 were shut and blown away by the explosion; is that correct?

25 A. It was burnt and there were a lot of shells as well as a lot of

Page 7503

1 clothing which was left over from the victims who had been executed there.

2 Cartridges too.

3 Q. And how is it possible, since you say that there was an explosion

4 that blasted all the windows, and how come the refrigerator and the heater

5 were unaffected and the cafe was burned down because of this explosion

6 that you mentioned?

7 A. As to the technical details of the fire and why the refrigerator

8 wasn't burnt, I'm sorry, I -- whether it was burnt or not, whether there

9 were traces of the crime or what traces there were, I don't know.

10 Q. All right. You say that in that cafe there were many bullet

11 casings and other munitions. Does that mean that somebody was shooting

12 from the room that you were in?

13 A. There was no shooting there. There was an execution. Because it

14 was in the coffee shop. There was shooting, mass shooting, in the coffee

15 shop.

16 Q. Well, that means that somebody was shooting from that cafe since

17 there were so many casings in the cafe itself.

18 JUDGE MAY: Or --

19 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

20 Q. You're not talking about bullets, you're talking about casings.

21 JUDGE MAY: Or shooting in the cafe.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] It was the Yugoslav police. You

23 were their commander. All the Berisha family was in there, 48 members, of

24 which 18 children and old people and women. They were all forced into

25 there, that cafe, and they were executed by firearms. And then the

Page 7504

1 building was burnt to cover up the traces of the crime.

2 There are witnesses who survived the massacre and can provide

3 testimony as to exactly what did take place there.

4 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Milosevic, you've got two more questions of this

5 witness. You've had the best part of an hour with him.

6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Well, I have quite a few questions

7 left, Mr. May, because he has been claiming things that are quite

8 contradictory. Casings are to be found at a place from where one shoots.

9 JUDGE MAY: Or where one shoots. Where the bullets went, of

10 course, is a different matter.

11 Now, let's move on. You've got two more questions.

12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] That is quite insufficient for me,

13 two questions only.

14 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

15 Q. Please. In front of the door, you saw a hole full of casings, 80

16 by 80. Was that actually a small trench from which there was shooting?

17 A. What door are you talking about?

18 Q. I said that you said that in front of the door of the cafe, you

19 saw a hole, 80 by 80, full of casings. Was this a small trench from which

20 there was shooting?

21 A. No, no. You're wrong here. You've been misinformed. There

22 wasn't a trench there. In front of the door, there's a little place where

23 people brush off their shoes before they go in, and that's where the

24 casings were. It wasn't a trench at all. There was no trench or ditch at

25 all there.

Page 7505

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Page 7506

1 Q. Please. You actually say that 40 metres away you saw a dried up

2 pool of blood, and you saw that on the 13th of June, that is to say, two

3 months after all the rain and winds and spring and summer and the dogs and

4 the other animals that were there. You saw that two months later. Is

5 that what you saw?

6 A. That's what I said, but you're interpreting it differently. First

7 of all, the massacre of the Berisha family on the 26th was behind the

8 building where the OSCE was. There is where the bloodstains were found.

9 There was also blood where Nexhmedin was injured when he tried to get to

10 the coffee shop from there. You could -- also his clothing was found with

11 blood. It wasn't as you claim it was, as you're interpreting it.

12 Q. And the time difference between this event and that 13th of June

13 when you came, how much time had elapsed; two months, two and a half

14 months?

15 A. I think the people involved in the autopsies could tell you better

16 how old the bloodstains were.

17 Q. All right. Tell me, since you're talking about destroyed houses

18 in Suva Reka, you say, first of all, that - this is point 3 - when you

19 looked at all the events that you processed, out of over 11.000 houses in

20 Suva Reka, over 9.000 were destroyed, and that is over 80 per cent. And

21 then in the next sentence, you say that 1.960 houses were destroyed. So

22 which figure is accurate out of the two?

23 A. I'd like to remind you, Your Honours, that over a short period,

24 from the 25th of March to the 6th of June, the police and military in the

25 municipality of Suhareke took all sorts of actions, massacring the

Page 7507

1 civilian population on the 25th and the 26th of March at the same time.

2 There was a massacre in the village of Trnje where --

3 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, time is short. We really must try and

4 bring this to a close. If you could just concentrate on the question.

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I just wanted to remind you about

6 the massacres that I had experienced in Suhareke.

7 JUDGE MAY: Of course. We have that in mind. We know your

8 evidence. But the question you were asked was about the houses which were

9 destroyed. Now, how many houses were destroyed? Can you remember or not?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I remember, but the most important

11 thing are lives, the human lives, not houses. I'm talking about how many

12 victims died.

13 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, of course we understand that and of

14 course we understand that you have experienced terrible things and your

15 family has and there's a real loss, but you must appreciate this is a

16 criminal trial in which this accused is tried for very serious offences,

17 and time is, for that reason, short. So you must let us be the judges of

18 what is relevant as far as this part of your evidence is concerned.

19 Now, you are being referred to something in your statement, and it

20 says in your statement, dealing with houses, the number is 9.895 out of

21 11.955 homes destroyed. This makes the percentage of homes destroyed as

22 83.47 per cent. Then it goes on: "There was a total of 1.960 homes only

23 destroyed."

24 Now, can you clarify what appears to be a discrepancy in the

25 figures?

Page 7508

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the municipality of

2 Suhareke contains 42 villages, and only one of these villages was not

3 burnt. All the rest were burnt, some of which a hundred per cent. So the

4 first number you mention of 11.000, that's -- 33 per cent of the houses

5 were burnt in the municipality as a total. 1.200 houses, those were the

6 houses in Suhareke, in the city of Suhareke, 1.200.

7 JUDGE MAY: Yes, Mr. Milosevic. We can see what's in the

8 statement. There appears to be a discrepancy of some sort. Now, one

9 final question, because you really have had a good deal of time with this

10 witness. This will be your last question.

11 MR. MILOSEVIC: [Interpretation]

12 Q. You say on page 8, item 4, that 21 educational institutions were

13 destroyed and shelled, and in the next sentence, you say that 15

14 educational institutions were destroyed. So again, this is a considerable

15 discrepancy.

16 Now, all of it put together, how were all these houses,

17 institutions, everything, how was that destroyed? Was it destroyed during

18 war operations or in some other way?

19 A. All that destruction of houses and schools and religious buildings

20 were carried out by the police in their various operations.

21 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Mr. Wladimiroff, have you any questions?

22 No.

23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Please, Mr. May, a question. I'm

24 not going to put a question. I just want to say again that there is a

25 special situation. We have a witness here who is at the same time an

Page 7509

1 amateur investigator, and then in his capacity a witness, he explains what

2 he found out as an investigator dilettante. I think that the other side

3 is really being very imaginative when they bring in such witnesses. I

4 don't know how many roles he is performing right now during this

5 examination.

6 JUDGE MAY: It is a matter for the Trial Chamber to determine the

7 relevance of his evidence and the weight to be given to it.

8 Now, Mr. Wladimiroff, do you have any questions, please?

9 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] All right, Mr. May. All right.

10 MR. WLADIMIROFF: Yes, Your Honour, I have.

11 Questioned by Mr. Wladimiroff:

12 Q. Witness, I have a few questions that may assist the Court. On

13 page 2 of your statement, you tell about what happened to 10 Albanian

14 civilians from several families after the Serb forces told, on the 22nd of

15 March, that the Serbs had been killing. You say that these 10 Albanians

16 were killed. Do you remember that?

17 A. Yes, this happened on the 22nd of March, 1999.

18 Q. Did you witness that yourself or was that told to you?

19 A. This happened a long way from my house, and during the

20 investigations regarding the bodies, I found out about this.

21 Q. Did you find out who killed them and how the killing came about,

22 where exactly they were killed?

23 A. Yes. We realised immediately on the 22nd of March in the

24 afternoon that in the old part of Suhareke, in the centre, the Serbian

25 police had entered certain houses and killed civilians. Among them there

Page 7510

1 was a woman of 70.

2 Q. Thank you. Am I right in thinking that you did not witness what

3 happened there, but you were told by others and you investigated to

4 reconstruct what happened?

5 A. There were witnesses who had survived this incident.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 A. If there is need, Your Honour, I can give the names of the

8 witnesses who can testify to this to the Tribunal.

9 Q. I have a few other questions related to the list you drew up that

10 may assist the Court as well. I'm a little bit confused, because today a

11 list was tendered to the Court called Annex B, Annexure B, but previously

12 there has been a list disclosed to the amici which looks like the same

13 list but, actually, I think it's not.

14 MR. WLADIMIROFF: May I show the witness that list, Your Honour?

15 I will first show the witness the list that has been tendered today, and

16 then I'll show the witness the list I had in my possession.

17 Q. That, Mr. Berisha, is a list that has been tendered today. I

18 suppose you -- these are the letters by which they were given to me. Then

19 the next list, would you recognise that list? Is that the same list or a

20 different list?

21 A. They are approximately the same. It is merely a matter of the

22 order of the names.

23 Q. Well, to be precise, Mr. Berisha, on the list that has been

24 tendered today, there are 528 names, and on the other list there are 343

25 list -- names. So there is some difference, isn't there?

Page 7511

1 A. There are differences because it was not possible to include all

2 the names of the killed and -- those killed and those who were missing.

3 And meanwhile, we've been able to add some more.

4 Q. Thank you. I will show you that second list again.

5 MR. WLADIMIROFF: May I ask the usher to give it again to the

6 witness.

7 Q. Now, you will see that on some pages there is handwriting. Is

8 that your handwriting?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. Thank you. I will give you the original list again, and please go

11 to the page where you see number 121, 122, 123, on the original list, the

12 list I think that has been tendered today, and compare that to the other

13 list, the same numbers. Do you see any differences?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Can you tell the Court what these differences are?

16 A. The differences lie in the lists of the massacres in the villages.

17 And meanwhile, a massacre in the village of Savrove has been added, as

18 well as the massacre in Trnje. This has been added.

19 Q. Right. If you look to the last column, which are your comments.

20 Is that right? On the right hand of that landscaped list, that column,

21 the last column, these are your comments; is that right? All right. I'll

22 repeat it.

23 A. I don't have any translation.

24 Q. Excuse me. I will repeat my question. The last column of that

25 landscaped list, there are notes or things have been typed there,

Page 7512

1 handwritten notes and things, words typed there. These are your comments;

2 is that right?

3 A. Yes. For instance, sometimes the age is not known, and sometimes

4 I put in that -- I put in the age 65 when this has been discovered. And

5 this column states whether someone has been killed or is missing. For

6 instance, you get the date, 21st of March, 1999, and this is information

7 from the family on which date this person was killed.

8 Q. Thank you. That brings us to column number 8. There is no 8 on

9 the page in front of you, but if you count each column, you look at column

10 8 and 9, there you will see the place of killing and the date of killing.

11 A. Yes.

12 Q. How did you establish the date of killing? Did you witness the

13 killing or was that told to you? Did you research it on the basis of what

14 people told you, or perhaps you saw documents?

15 A. In some cases I was a witness, and in some cases this was on the

16 basis of the investigations that I conducted.

17 Q. Meaning that people told you and you saw documents or only people

18 told you about the killings?

19 A. These were descriptions by immediate eyewitnesses and members of

20 their families.

21 Q. Right. Now, if we go to column 3 and 4, that deals with father's

22 name and surname. Do you see these columns?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. How did you establish that kind of data?

25 A. First, as for the Berishas, they are members of my own family and

Page 7513

1 so I knew who their fathers were.

2 Q. Yes. But how did you come about that someone was either missing

3 or killed and, therefore, you came about a name?

4 A. The massacre of the Berishas on the 26th of March took place in

5 four houses. It took place in the family of Musli Berisha --

6 Q. I know. But we've got here a list of more than 500 names, so I'm

7 interested to learn how you established all these names; who was killed

8 where, which date, and who he was.

9 A. During the inspection of the bodies in 1999 when the international

10 forensic teams were working, at the same time, the bodies were identified.

11 I was a kind of connecting link between the families and the forensic

12 teams of The Hague Tribunal, and all the people who were looking for their

13 loved ones filled in a form, an antemortem form, in which they described

14 the missing person on the last day on which this person was seen.

15 Q. Thank you. That's very helpful. Now, I put to you that I have

16 seen reports of the German forensic team, and I came across a number of

17 formula where it was stated, "Name unknown." How would you establish the

18 name of that person if he is on your list?

19 A. The people were identified by the members of their families. The

20 relatives were involved in identifying the bodies. And they had

21 information on how the person appeared on the day of his disappearance,

22 how he was dressed, and so forth.

23 Q. Were you present during all those identifications or was this told

24 to you by the family?

25 A. I was always present at the identifications.

Page 7514

1 Q. Thank you.

2 MR. WLADIMIROFF: That's all I ask, Your Honours. I wonder

3 whether the Court would want me to tender the other list, otherwise

4 perhaps --

5 JUDGE MAY: Yes. That could be tendered. 240A, would that be a

6 suitable number?

7 MR. WLADIMIROFF: I make a note that there are yellow stripes on

8 it from my hand, and on the right top you'll find a page numbering that is

9 of my hand as well.

10 JUDGE MAY: Yes.

11 THE REGISTRAR: That will be 241B.

12 JUDGE MAY: 241B. Thank you.

13 Re-examined by Ms. Romano:

14 Q. Mr. Berisha, through your role in the commission, as a chairman

15 for the commission for missing persons in Suva Reka, you conducted

16 virtually a one-man inquiry on the events that happened in your town; is

17 that correct?

18 A. Not only in the town but in the entire municipality of Suhareke.

19 Q. And as part of your work, you compiled the list that is attached

20 to your statement that contains approximately 5 -- 528 names; that's

21 correct?

22 A. That was the state of things at the time. Perhaps there are

23 changes now and new facts have emerged and additions have been made, but I

24 don't have another list with me yet.

25 Q. That's the point I want to make, Mr. Berisha. So this was an

Page 7515

1 ongoing project that you're working on; is that correct?

2 A. It is still continuing, and it will continue in the future.

3 Q. And you printed several -- sometimes you printed copies that had

4 the state of your investigation at that particular moment?

5 A. That is true.

6 Q. Thank you.

7 MS. ROMANO: Just to clarify with the Chamber, I have both lists

8 here, and the first list, that was one of the drafts that Mr. Berisha

9 provided. And the last draft that he provided and the one that was part

10 of his statement is the one that is attached there with 500 names.

11 Q. Last -- last issue, Mr. Berisha. I think there was confusion

12 about the number of homes destroyed. You made an investigation, and you

13 came up with a number of homes that were destroyed in the municipality of

14 Suva Reka, and also a percentage. I will read it to you again what is in

15 the statement, and I will ask you to clarify perhaps a mistake that there

16 is there.

17 You say that: "The figures for this part of my investigation came

18 from the Directorate for Development and Reconstruction of the Suva Reka

19 Municipality, Suva Reka municipality administration. The number is 9.895

20 out of 11.955 homes destroyed. This makes the percentage of homes

21 destroyed as 83 per cent."

22 You continue and you say that there is a total of 1.960 homes only

23 destroyed. What you wanted to say what you referred to 1.960 homes?

24 A. This relates only to the town of Suhareke. The second part

25 concerns only the town itself.

Page 7516

1 Q. So among the 9.000 homes, 1.900 were exactly from the town of Suva

2 Reka; is that correct?

3 A. That's right.

4 Q. And the rest homes were from all over the municipality?

5 A. The remainder were scattered among the 41 villages of Suhareke

6 municipality.

7 Q. Thank you, Mr. Berisha.

8 MS. ROMANO: No further questions, Your Honours.

9 JUDGE MAY: Mr. Berisha, that concludes your evidence. Thank you

10 for coming to the International Tribunal to give it. You are free to go.

11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour, for making

12 it possible for me to describe a part of what has happened to me and the

13 crimes that happened in 1999 in Suhareke.

14 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, we still have time. I have the other

15 witness available.

16 JUDGE MAY: Yes. We might as well make a start.

17 [The witness withdrew]

18 [The witness entered court]

19 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the witness take the declaration.

20 THE WITNESS: I solemnly declare that I will speak the truth, the

21 whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

22 JUDGE MAY: If you'd like to take a seat.

23 WITNESS: SANDRA MITCHELL

24 Examined by Ms. Romano:

25 Q. Ms. Mitchell, can you please state to the Court your full name.

Page 7517

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Page 7518

1 A. Sandra Lynne Mitchell.

2 Q. Your nationality?

3 A. American.

4 Q. And when were you born?

5 A. May 2, 1962.

6 Q. Your Honours, I'll ask the witness to give a very short

7 description of her background but I would also like to tender her

8 curriculum vitae into evidence.

9 JUDGE MAY: Yes.

10 MS. ROMANO:

11 Q. Ms. Mitchell, can you please just very briefly give your

12 background to the Court.

13 A. I'm a trained attorney and practiced law in the United States for

14 about seven years and then began working in the Balkans, first in

15 Bulgaria, then in Bosnia, Kosovo, Albania, Macedonia, as well as with some

16 of the OSCE institutions in Warsaw and in Vienna. I worked for both

17 non-governmental organisations in the area of human rights as well as for

18 the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in Europe in different

19 missions.

20 Q. Thank you. Ms. Mitchell, you provided to the Office of the

21 Prosecutor a statement dated of 12 May, 2002. That's correct?

22 A. That's correct.

23 Q. And on the 2nd of July, 2002, you also attended a meeting here in

24 The Hague with a presiding officer of the Registrar where you confirmed

25 that the contents of your statement are true?

Page 7519

1 A. That's correct.

2 MS. ROMANO: I would like --

3 Q. One more thing. At that time also you made an addendum where you

4 presented several documents that you brought with you to The Hague; is

5 that correct?

6 A. That's correct.

7 MS. ROMANO: The Prosecution submits the statements and the

8 addendum into evidence.

9 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreters have one request while there is

10 still time, to mind your speed, especially when reading.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Prosecution Exhibit 242, and the statement will be

12 numbered Prosecution Exhibit 243 for the original and 243A for the

13 redacted version.

14 The curriculum vitae is numbered Prosecution Exhibit 242, Your

15 Honour.

16 MS. ROMANO: I apologise to the translators, interpreters. I'll

17 really try to slow down.

18 Between November 1998 and April 2000, Ms. Mitchell was director of

19 Human Rights Division in the Organisation for Security and Cooperation in

20 Europe, OSCE, Kosovo. Prior to this, May-October 1998, she was legal

21 advisor in the OSCE for democratic institutions and human rights. In this

22 capacity, she was assigned to mission planning and deployment team for the

23 Kosovo Verification Mission, KVM.

24 On becoming director Human Rights Division, Kosovo, she assumed

25 many responsibilities, amongst which were leading the investigation and

Page 7520

1 reporting of critical human rights and humanitarian law violations before,

2 during, and after the 1999 NATO air campaign; chief of liaison for the

3 OSCE to the ICTY, United Nations agencies, non-governmental organisations,

4 media, and others on matters of human rights; and also developing the

5 human rights monitoring operation, the reporting protocols, prioritisation

6 of tasks and the management of international and national staff in field

7 operations.

8 In Kosovo, OSCE-KVM had 75 human rights staff in 43 field sites.

9 The witness selected and supervised two field coordinators who each

10 managed five to ten senior human rights officers who in turn supervised

11 between 10 to 20 field officers and national staff. All the information

12 collected was centralised at mission headquarters for analysis and

13 reporting.

14 After its withdrawal from Kosovo in March 1999, the OSCE-KVM

15 continued to gather information and monitor the human rights situation in

16 Kosovo through refugee interviews. The witness, in her role as head of

17 the Human Rights Division, supervised and tasked more than 200 staff

18 employed in refugee camps throughout Albania and Macedonia interviewing

19 refugees, obtaining statements, and collecting information, all of which

20 was recorded on refugee interview forms.

21 The witness testifies that during the 11-month period between

22 October 1998 and 1999, the work of Human Rights Division of the OSCE had

23 three phases and in three different environments. This is reflected in

24 the presentation of the two-volume report on the human rights findings of

25 the OSCE in Kosovo between 1998 -- October 1998 and October 1999, entitled

Page 7521

1 "As Seen, As Told" parts I and II. The two reports "As Seen, As Told"

2 part I and II have already been exhibited into evidence in this Court and

3 I believe that they are Exhibit 106.

4 All the information used in the preparation of this report was

5 collected and managed under the direct supervision of the witness. The

6 writing and edition of volume I, of the report was prepared under her

7 direct authority in Pristina. This represents phase one and two of the

8 work in Kosovo between 1998 and 1999. The pre-conflict and conflict

9 phases.

10 The volume II represents the third phase of the OSCE work in

11 Kosovo, the immediate post-conflict period, ending with the

12 demilitarisation of the KLA in October 1999. The witness states that upon

13 the conclusion of the NATO air campaign in June 1999, the OSCE immediately

14 re-established its human rights presence in Kosovo. And during the

15 ensuing period, it gathered firsthand evidence of alleged human rights

16 violations, largely committed then against the minority Serb and Roma

17 populations. It also assisted the ICTY --

18 THE INTERPRETER: Could the speaker please slow down.

19 MS. ROMANO: It also assisted the ICTY in the identification of

20 human remains and in the collection of information related to alleged

21 humanitarian law violations.

22 The witness will say that all the times the Human Rights Division

23 utilised standards and commonly accepted norms found in international

24 human rights conventions, treaties, and covenants, including the Geneva

25 Conventions when verifying alleged violations.

Page 7522

1 When arrived in The Hague, Ms. Mitchell provided the Office of the

2 Prosecutor with copies of documents and memorandum where the core tasks,

3 the operational plan of the KVM Human Rights Division, the standard

4 operation procedure outlining the actions required to document serious

5 humanitarian violations are specified in details, as well as copies of the

6 refugee monitoring forms. They are seven documents which are part of the

7 addendum made during the Rule 92 bis procedure on the 2nd of July.

8 Unless the Court would like the witness to go into detail in any

9 of the documents, that's for -- all for the Prosecution.

10 JUDGE MAY: Very well. Cross-examination tomorrow morning.

11 Ms. Mitchell, we've got to adjourn now. Could you be back,

12 please, at 9.00 tomorrow morning for the rest of your evidence. I must

13 give you the standard warning: Please don't speak to anybody about your

14 evidence until it's over. That does include members of the Prosecution

15 staff.

16 MS. ROMANO: Your Honours, I just have one more request.

17 JUDGE MAY: Yes.

18 MS. ROMANO: If the witness can be allowed to refer to her notes

19 during cross-examination.

20 JUDGE MAY: These are notes made at the time, are they, or what

21 are they?

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, they would be the reports

23 themselves.

24 JUDGE MAY: Oh, yes.

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] And then just notes further trying

Page 7523

1 to summarise what's in the reports, to myself.

2 JUDGE MAY: Very well.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

4 JUDGE MAY: 9.00 tomorrow morning, then.

5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.42 p.m.,

6 to be reconvened on Friday, the 5th day of July,

7 2002, at 9.00 a.m.

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