1 Thursday, 8 May 2008
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused Simatovic entered court]
4 [The accused Stanisic is not present]
5 --- Upon commencing at 2.15 p.m.
6 JUDGE ROBINSON: As you are no doubt aware ... [French on English
8 Is that an indication that something is amiss with the
9 technology? It's fixed now? Very well.
10 The accused Stanisic is not in court and I am going to ask the
11 court deputy to say what the position is in relation to Mr. Stanisic's
12 attendance either in court or for the purposes of viewing the video
13 conference link. Yes. Please go ahead.
14 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, the accused is not in court and he
15 will not be in the VTC room today. He's currently in the hospital
16 awaiting his medical examination and we will be receiving a report
17 shortly and will be able to notify the Court as to the results.
18 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.
19 We should have had in accordance with the procedures set out a
20 medical certificate by this time. We haven't had it. The explanation, I
21 understand, is that the medical officer is not present at the UNDU and in
22 his absence, the UNDU had to obtain the services of another doctor and
23 that has led to some delay. In view of the fact that this is the first
24 time that the procedures which are established are being put in place,
25 the Chamber has some sympathy and understanding for the problems faced by
1 the UNDU. The Chamber expects, however, that the medical report will on
2 all future occasions be ready and transmitted in a timely manner to it.
3 I do have, however, a form prepared by the deputy commander which
4 addresses the first five or six paragraphs of the new set of procedures
5 and I'd like to ensure that the parties have it.
6 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
7 JUDGE ROBINSON: It's being transmitted -- may we have copies
8 made for the parties, but in the meantime, I'll tell you what it says.
9 It seeks to give effect to the first five or six paragraphs of the new
10 set of procedures set out.
11 First, there is confirmation that, and this is from the deputy
12 commanding officer, Fraser Gilmour, that he met with Mr. Stanisic at
13 11.55. He confirms that he informed him about the court hearing
14 scheduled for today to begin at 2.15 and that normal arrangements were in
15 place to transport him to the Tribunal. Then Mr. Stanisic indicated that
16 he felt too unwell to attend the court in person.
17 He reminded him that he had a right to be present in the
18 courtroom. Mr. Stanisic was not willing to waive his right to attend
19 court in person. He then reminded Mr. Stanisic that it was still open to
20 him to participate in the proceedings via the video conference link.
21 Mr. Stanisic then indicated that he did not wish to use the video
22 conference link, and following that answer, the medical officer or
23 another qualified officer was called upon to carry out an examination and
24 to submit a report to the Trial Chamber. It is that report which we now
25 await and you have just been given the explanation for its absence at
1 this time.
2 Does any party have any comment to make?
3 Mr. Groome.
4 MR. GROOME: Not at this time, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE ROBINSON: Okay.
6 MR. KNOOPS: Thank you, Your Honour, nothing.
7 [Trial Chamber confers]
8 JUDGE ROBINSON: In the circumstances, the Chamber determines
9 that the best course is to adjourn the proceedings until such time as the
10 medical report is transmitted to the registry and forwarded to it. We
11 don't believe that that will be a very long time from now, so the parties
12 should stand by and be ready to be recalled shortly. We are adjourned.
13 --- Break taken at 2.25 p.m.
14 --- On resuming at 2.52 p.m.
15 JUDGE ROBINSON: We are resumed. We have two statements. One is
16 from the deputy registrar received -- or made at 2.25 p.m. and then
17 subsequent to that, I believe we have a statement or a certificate from
18 the doctor who saw Mr. Stanisic today.
19 Since we have this statement in front of us, I am going to read
20 both of them slowly. I will spare the court deputy the reading.
21 This is from the deputy registrar and I presume this would have
22 been based on a telephone conversation between the deputy registrar and
23 the doctor. It may be that it would be enough just to go to the doctor's
24 certificate since we have that now, but in the interest of completeness,
25 I'll read both. In fact, you can read silently the statement from the
1 deputy registrar, and then I'll read the doctor's certificate.
2 It says, "Before me I see Mr. Stanisic. The patient is suffering
3 of severe colitis with a lot of blood loss and diarrhea. He needs
4 frequently to go to the toilet. He's very weak and sweaty because of the
5 blood loss. Therapy starts today and effect, I hope, will soon be seen.
6 It is not advisable to go to trial today and not follow by video
7 conference link."
8 Then there is something which I thought poor penmanship was a
9 province of lawyers but apparently -- I can't read this. That's the name
10 of the -- but there is something before the name, before the signature.
11 I can't make it out but perhaps it has no effect.
12 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
13 JUDGE ROBINSON: I'm informed that it's the initials and the name
14 of the doctor. May I ask first ask for the Prosecution to make
16 MR. GROOME: I really don't have too many comments to make, Your
17 Honour, I rely on the Chamber's reading of the words here, other than to
18 point out that we know from the fitness proceedings that he does -- he
19 cannot have colitis, but I imagine the doctor obviously does not have
20 that much familiarity with him. I think it is probably safe for us to
21 conclude that his pouchitis is acting up and it's not colitis.
22 JUDGE ROBINSON: Mr. Knoops.
23 MR. KNOOPS: Your Honour, I believe that in light of the
24 paragraphs 12 and 13 of Your Honours' ruling of this morning, we submit
25 that the proceedings for today should be adjourned. Thank you.
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: Do you have submissions on that, Mr. Groome?
2 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, I find myself in a difficult position
3 because I think I like many of the participants here are getting
4 increasingly frustrated with the inability for us to make any progress.
5 I must say though that I am reluctant to simply discard the
6 opinion of this doctor who seems to be suggesting -- I mean when I look
7 at her observations that he's very weak and sweaty, it seems that that
8 seems to be something that can be objectively observable by a trained
9 doctor and she's attributing it to blood loss. It does seem rather
10 serious in light of your protocol. I mean it's obviously the Chamber's
11 decision to make a determination whether or not he's too ill to proceed
12 but I certainly don't feel comfortable in arguing that we should proceed
13 disregarding what this doctor has reported to us.
14 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.
15 MR. KNOOPS: Your Honour, maybe --
16 JUDGE ROBINSON: Yes.
17 MR. KNOOPS: My last remark would be, sorry to interrupt your
18 deliberation, but it's of course significant, I believe, that this is a
19 doctor who previously was not involved in the case and apart from
20 Dr. de Man, Dr. Falke, we have now a third independent doctor who comes
21 to this conclusion, so I think it will just underline my request that in
22 light of paragraphs 12 and 13, there is ample basis for the request to
23 adjourn for today. Thank you.
24 JUDGE ROBINSON: Thank you.
25 [Trial Chamber confers]
1 JUDGE ROBINSON: The Chamber thanks the parties for their
2 submissions. In particular we are indebted to Mr. Groome for his
3 frankness which is wholly consistent with the best traditions of the bar
4 as the Prosecutor.
5 The Chamber concludes that it has no alternative but to adjourn
6 the hearing. We take into account the doctor's observations that
7 Mr. Stanisic has to go to the toilet frequently, he's very weak and
8 sweaty because of the loss of blood.
9 We also note that therapy is to start today and the hope is
10 expressed that its effect will soon be seen, but we were given to
11 understand that that therapy would have started yesterday and the
12 registrar might wish to inquire what is happening in that regard.
13 The Chamber therefore determines that Mr. Stanisic is not well
14 enough either to attend court or to participate in proceedings by the
15 video conference link today, and we will adjourn until ...
16 [Trial Chamber confers]
17 JUDGE ROBINSON: The date of the adjournment, now it could be a
18 matter for discussion. Mr. Groome.
19 MR. GROOME: Your Honour, just before you rise -- just before you
20 made -- you set a time for adjournment, it occurs to me that we might be
21 able to make some progress in this case in other ways, I mean there are a
22 number of pending motions. If it would assist the Chamber and the
23 parties tomorrow if Mr. Stanisic is too ill to proceed, if it would
24 assist the Chamber in having the parties discuss and present argument on
25 the different pending motions, it would help the Chamber resolve, that
1 might be a productive use of time and advance us in a material way in
2 this case.
3 [Trial Chamber and legal officer confer]
4 JUDGE ROBINSON: The Chamber is considering adjourning until
5 tomorrow not specifically to take up Mr. Groome's suggestion, because I
6 am not personally aware of any motions presenting the kind of difficulty
7 that would benefit from interparty submissions during court. These are
8 matters which the Chamber can decide and will decide with promptness.
9 We will adjourn until tomorrow in the event that Mr. Stanisic is
10 well enough to attend either court or the video conference link. So we
11 are adjourned.
12 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.05 p.m.
13 to be reconvened on Friday, the 9th day of May,
14 2008 at 9.00 a.m.