Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

Page 2459

 1                           Wednesday, 9 December 2009

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [The accused Simatovic entered court]

 4                           [The accused Stanisic appeared via videolink]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 2.24 p.m.

 6             JUDGE ORIE:  Good afternoon to everyone.  Madam Registrar, would

 7     you please call the case.

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honours.  This is case

 9     IT-03-69-T, the Prosecutor versus Jovica Stanisic, and Franko Simatovic.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Madam Registrar.

11             The Chamber received the form non-attendance in court which

12     Mr. Stanisic had indicated that he would follow the proceedings through

13     videolink.  And yesterday we had a problem with the audio.  I do

14     understand that Mr. Stanisic will not be able to hear the original speech

15     of the witness, everything that was said in B/C/S, but that he does

16     receive the distorted version, which would enable him, at least, to

17     follow what was said, although not without the distortion.

18             I take it that it is most important that the witness is able to

19     follow what is said and that even if he would receive only the distorted

20     version that he will be able to follow the proceedings, although it's

21     certainly not ideal.  The Chamber is aware of that.

22             Mr. Knoops, the Chamber suggests that we proceed in this way.

23             MR. KNOOPS:  We have no objection, Your Honour.  Thank you.

24             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you.

25             Mr. Stanisic, you will have followed what I said, that is that

Page 2460

 1     you can hear the witness but that you're unable to hear his undistorted

 2     voice.  If at any moment you think that you're not able to follow what

 3     the witness says, although you receive his voice with distortion, would

 4     you please immediately give notice to Mr. Knoops that he can further

 5     address the matter.  Is that clear to you?

 6             THE ACCUSED STANISIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.

 7             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you.  Then we turn into private session again.

 8                           [Private session]

 9   (redacted)

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Page 2461











11 Pages 2461-2538 redacted. Private session.















Page 2539

 1   (redacted)

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 5   (redacted)

 6   (redacted)

 7                           [Open session]

 8             THE REGISTRAR:  We're in open session, Your Honours.

 9             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you, Madam Registrar.

10             Mr. Groome.

11             MR. GROOME:  Your Honour, Ms. Friedman has more information about

12     P107, what has been marked for identification earlier today as P107

13     before --

14             JUDGE ORIE:  It's a very technical matter.  Should we not

15     first -- but of course I'm looking at the Stanisic Defence.  If we are

16     dealing with technical matters only, that Mr. Stanisic, it might be

17     boring for him even, that no matter of substance will be further

18     discussed so that he feels free to leave the video room.

19             Mr. Groome, please proceed.

20             MR. GROOME:  Your Honour, before she does that, I have a brief

21     intervention.  In the event that the Appeals Chamber may be called upon

22     in the future to evaluate the functionality of the videolink it may be

23     important to note on the record whether the previously reported problems

24     with the phone line between the video room and this courtroom have in

25     fact been resolved.  I have observed Mr. Stanisic use the phone on

Page 2540

 1     several occasions today, and can I ask the Stanisic Defence to confirm

 2     that Mr. Stanisic is able to readily communicate with them and vice

 3     versa.

 4             JUDGE ORIE:  Well, Mr. Jordash can't answer the question because

 5     he's communicating with Mr. Stanisic at this very moment, Mr. Groome, so

 6     we have to wait for a second.

 7             MR. GROOME:  Perhaps that's acknowledgement enough, Your Honour.

 8             MR. JORDASH:  Mr. Stanisic is happy for the proceedings to

 9     continue.  He's going to leave, with Your Honours' leave.

10             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, that's fine with us.

11             The Stanisic Defence was invited to confirm that the telephone

12     communication function -- I said you couldn't answer because you were

13     communicating with Mr. Stanisic, which Mr. Groome considered to be an

14     affirmation.  I take it that you agree with that.

15             MR. JORDASH:  Completely, Your Honour, yes.

16             JUDGE ORIE:  Thank you.  Any other procedural matter at this

17     moment?  If not -- Ms. Friedman.  Yes, you would like to inform the

18     Chamber about the way you obtain the document.

19             MS. FRIEDMAN:  Yes.  Your Honours, the document was received on

20     the 1st of March, 2001, pursuant to an RFA.  Our information is that the

21     Croatian authorities in turn recovered the document from Knin after

22     Operation Storm.  It was received in response to a request for assistance

23     in March 2001.  We're in the process of locating the precise request for

24     assistance but can make an affirmative representation that we received it

25     from Croatian authorities and that it was a document within the official

Page 2541

 1     state archives in Zagreb.  We can provide underlying documentation

 2     tomorrow or at the next court hearing day if the Chamber requires.

 3             JUDGE ORIE:  Well, I think most important, of course, the Chamber

 4     has the authority under Rule 89(E)to ask for verification, but it seems

 5     that it's at this moment -- well, the Defence who is seeking whether or

 6     not they will invite the Chamber to seek further authentication of this

 7     document.  So if you will disclose that to the Defence and then we'll

 8     hear further from -- either from you or from the Defence.

 9             Finally, Mr. Jordash, I note -- yes, Ms. Friedman?

10             MS. FRIEDMAN:  One final matter.

11             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.

12             MS. FRIEDMAN:  In relation to the exhibits admitted today, they

13     were all admitted I believe not under seal, publicly, however, D7 is the

14     document that was the --

15             JUDGE ORIE:  We are in open session at this moment.

16             MS. FRIEDMAN:  Yes.

17             JUDGE ORIE:  So I don't know what you are going to say but ...

18             MS. FRIEDMAN:  Yes, I'm aware.  It should be okay.

19             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes, okay.  Please proceed.

20             MS. FRIEDMAN:  D7 is information of the Croatian police

21     authorities compiled on the basis of a number of witness interviews and

22     other documents, and in that statement -- perhaps we could -- we could

23     call it up and not have it broadcast or I could describe it.

24             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.  Until now -- until now the admission has not

25     been not under seal, which may -- usually if any document is -- is

Page 2542

 1     admitted in private session it's -- I would say out of an abundance of

 2     caution we should clearly indicate whether it's public or not.  If we

 3     would discuss any such a document, there is a risk that we would

 4     invalidate the protective measures which are in place at this moment.

 5             We don't have, not to discuss about it I think in court, I would

 6     suggest that provisionally all the documents admitted in private session

 7     are under seal and that you discuss with the Defence whether there are

 8     any documents which without in any way making the protective measures

 9     ineffective could become public.

10             Let's start to keep on the safe side.

11             Madam Registrar, all documents in relation to Witness JF-006 are

12     admitted under seal, and we'll hear further from the parties.

13             Any other procedural matter?

14             MR. JORDASH:  Your Honours, would it be possible just to raise

15     very quickly the issue of Dr. Eekhof, the reason being is that I think we

16     can deal with it in two minutes, and it will save the parties an hour or

17     two of drafting a response.

18             JUDGE ORIE:  I'm --

19                           [Trial Chamber confers]

20             JUDGE ORIE:  The Chamber was informed that the Registry is

21     considering whether or not to file a submission under Rule 33(B) of the

22     Rules.  Under those circumstances, the Chamber is hesitant to -- to find

23     a final solution within the next two minutes.

24             MR. JORDASH:  May I though indicate that the parties' agreed

25     position in relation to contacting Dr. Eekhof and then leave it with Your

Page 2543

 1     Honours for --

 2             JUDGE ORIE:  Yes.  That's now on the record and if you say we'd

 3     rather first wait whether or not any submission under Rule 33(B) will be

 4     received and would you allow us at this moment to refrain from written

 5     submission, then I'll briefly consider that with my colleagues.

 6             MR. JORDASH:  Thank you.

 7                           [Trial Chamber confers]

 8             JUDGE ORIE:  The Chamber would not mind if the parties would

 9     temporarily refrain from making written submissions, but first the

10     Chamber would like to see whether it will receive any submission by the

11     Registrar and whether that would call for further submissions by the

12     parties.  And even if there is an agreement among the parties in the

13     specific circumstances, that might not be the last word for the Chamber,

14     but as far as matters stand now, you don't have to sit at your desk at

15     this very moment, Mr. Jordash, starting writing.

16             MR. JORDASH:  Thank you.

17             JUDGE ORIE:  Since then you have some additional time left, if I

18     don't know how to pronounce names, I often ask CLSS for comment.  Since

19     you are consistently call your client Mr. Stanisic, it's not entirely

20     clear to me why every name ending with i-c, with the diacritic is

21     pronounced consistently by you as "ik" instead of "ic."

22             MR. JORDASH:  There's very few answers to my appalling

23     pronunciation, I'm afraid.

24             JUDGE ORIE:  I'm still quite confident, Mr. Jordash, that with

25     some exercise that you'll be able to pronounce all these names ending at

Page 2544

 1     "ic" to say "ic."  If feels far more pleasant for persons if their name

 2     is at least on the obvious parts pronounced correctly.  So therefore I

 3     encourage you to see whether you will achieve that, and I'm really

 4     confident that you could.

 5             We adjourn, and we will resume Monday the 14th of December in

 6     Courtroom III.

 7                           --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.02 p.m.,

 8                           to be reconvened on Monday, the 14th day

 9                           of December, 2009, at 2.15 p.m.