1 Tuesday, 15th October 1996.
2 (Open session)
3 (10.00 a.m.)
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: This morning and continuing through this week
5 we will be receiving testimony via video conferencing equipment
6 from the former Yugoslavia. The Defence will be calling
7 witnesses -- are you ready to proceed, Mr. Kay?
8 MR. KAY: Yes, your Honour. The first witness we call by video link
9 is Zeljko Maric.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Marro, can you hear me? Mr. Marro, the
11 first witness the Defence calls is Mr. Zeljko Maric. He is
12 listed as No. 33 on the Defence witness list. The last name is
13 spelt -- yes, we are ready -- Zeljko M-A-R-I-C. Would you
14 please ask that he come in?
15 Mr. Marro, would you please administer the oath to
16 Mr. Maric?
17 ^^ ZELJKO MARIC, called
18 THE WITNESS [In translation]: I solemnly declare that I will speak
19 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
20 (The witness was sworn)
21 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. Mr. Maric, you may be seated.
22 Mr. Kay, you may begin.
23 Examined by MR. KAY
24 Q. Is your name Zeljko Maric?
25 A. [In translation] Yes.
26 Q. Do you work as a policeman in Prijedor?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Do you live in Prijedor?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Are you a married man with two children?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When did you first start to work as a policeman in Prijedor?
5 A. In 1980.
6 Q. You are still in that occupation as a regular police officer?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Which part of the police do you work in?
9 A. I am a traffic policeman.
10 Q. Do you know Dusko Tadic?
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We have received a dark signal now. The video
12 is quashed. So we need to stop -- here, it has come back.
13 MR. KAY: I will repeat the last question again. [To the witness]:
14 In which part of the police force do you work in Prijedor?
15 A. I am a traffic policeman.
16 Q. Do you know Dusko Tadic?
17 A. Yes, I do.
18 Q. For how long have you known Dusko Tadic?
19 A. I have known Dusko Tadic since 1980.
20 Q. How did you meet Dusko Tadic?
21 A. During performing my regular duties, during traffic control and
22 the like.
23 Q. Did you train at karate with Dusko Tadic?
24 A. No, I did not. I was taught by our common friend, Emir
26 Q. How well did you know Emir Karabasic?
27 A. Quite well, because we completed secondary school together at
28 the Police Academy.
1 Q. Was that in Sarajevo?
2 A. Yes, in Sarajevo.
3 Q. Did your duties as a traffic policeman take you on occasions to
5 A. Yes.
6 Q. Did you know a lot of people in the town of Kozarac?
7 A. I knew quite a number of people.
8 Q. Can you recollect when the conflict started in 1992 in Kozarac?
9 A. I think it was around the month of June.
10 Q. Have you ever worked with Dusko Tadic as a policeman?
11 A. Yes.
12 THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry. The interpreter could not hear that.
13 MR. KAY: I will repeat the question. Have you ever worked with
14 Dusko Tadic as a policeman?
15 A. At the checkpoint in Orlovci I did work with Dusko Tadic.
16 Q. Was that before or after the conflict in Kozarac?
17 A. It was after the conflict in Kozarac.
18 Q. Can you recollect with whom Dusko Tadic worked when he was at
19 the checkpoint Orlovci?
20 A. In his shift there were also Cvijic -- I cannot remember the
21 names now, perhaps later.
22 Q. At this time did you ever work on any shifts at checkpoint
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Was that on the same shift as Dusko Tadic or a different shift?
26 A. Sometimes we worked in the same shift, but most frequently we
27 did not work together. He was the shift either before mine or
28 after mine.
1 Q. Were you in any position of command in relation to checkpoint
3 A. I was, shall we say, the leader of the shift, but I do not think
4 that can be called a command position.
5 Q. Can you recollect for how long Dusko Tadic worked at checkpoint
6 Orlovci? I will repeat that question, your Honour.
7 Can you recollect for how long Dusko Tadic worked at
8 checkpoint Orlovci?
9 A. I think around two months.
10 Q. At the time Dusko Tadic worked at checkpoint Orlovci, do you
11 know where he lived?
12 A. I think he was living in Prijedor.
13 Q. Did you ever spend any time off duty with Dusko Tadic?
14 A. No.
15 Q. Did you ever spend time talking to him whilst you were both
16 working together or on police duty with each other?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. How would you describe Dusko Tadic's behaviour during that
19 period of time that you came across him at checkpoint Orlovci?
20 A. He behaved quite normally, like most people at that time.
21 Q. Did you ever discuss events that were happening at that time
22 with him?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Did he ever express any extreme nationalist views to you?
25 A. No.
26 Q. Did he ever express nationalist views in support of the Serbs
27 against other ethnic groups in the region?
28 A. No.
1 Q. Did you discuss those sorts of matters, what was happening at
2 that time, with each other?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. What sort of attitude would you say Dusko Tadic had to those
6 A. Dusko Tadic was in the first place a sportsman, so that most of
7 the time we spent discussing sports and people in sports, but it
8 was inevitable to touch on politics as well and the events that
9 had taken place there at that time. I conclude from all our
10 talks that Dusko Tadic condemned everything that was happening,
11 including the war and everything that was happening to the
12 people in our part of the world.
13 Q. Did you discuss with him what had happened to Kozarac?
14 A. Yes, we did.
15 Q. What was his attitude about the state of Kozarac, about what had
16 happened to it?
17 A. Kozarac is his place of birth which means that he loves it, and
18 that is why he denounced the way that things had happened and
19 what had happened in Kozarac.
20 Q. When you were on a different shift to Dusko Tadic, did you ever
21 speak to each other at the handover of one shift to the other?
22 A. Yes, frequently I would be handing over my shift to him or the
23 other way round and waiting for transportation, or on some other
24 occasions we would sit and talk about those events.
25 Q. Can you identify for us where checkpoint Orlovci is in relation
26 to Prijedor and Kozarac?
27 A. It is about halfway between Kozarac and Prijedor.
28 Q. Is there a particular town or village at the site of the
2 A. Yes, the village is called Orlovci.
3 Q. Is it just called "Orlovci" or is it prefixed with "Donji" or
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: The monitor has gone blank again.
6 MR. KAY: Yes, your Honour. I will repeat the question when we get
7 back on. It does seem the quality is improving as we proceed.
8 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, it does.
9 MR. KAY [To the witness]: Is it just called "Orlovci" or is it
10 prefixed with "Donji" or "Gornji"?
11 A. It is called "Gornji Orlovci".
12 Q. At the site, checkpoint, are there houses on either side of the
14 A. From the direction of Kozarac there are more houses on the
15 right-hand side.
16 Q. Is it on the new Banja Luka/Prijedor highway or what is known as
17 the old Banja Luka/Prijedor road?
18 A. It is -- that is the place where the two roads, the old and the
19 new one, intersect, the Banja Luka/Prijedor roads.
20 Q. Is the place of the checkpoint actually sited on the new road?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Are there roads to houses on either side, small lanes that move
23 up to Gornji Orlovci on one side and down on the other side?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. Is there still a checkpoint to this day, although not in the
26 same form but a place where the police often stand by a vehicle
27 on the side of the road to observe traffic?
28 A. Yes, the checkpoint in the sense it used to be no longer exists,
1 but the road is there, and the police is performing its normal
2 duties, both there and elsewhere.
3 Q. At the site of this checkpoint, is there a large tree?
4 A. Yes, there is a walnut tree there.
5 Q. If you were approaching Prijedor from Kozarac, would that be on
6 the right-hand side of the road?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. In 1992 can you describe what form the checkpoint took at this
9 place in the road, how it was set up?
10 A. Are you thinking of our duties or the actual buildings?
11 Q. The actual buildings, was it a barrier, was there some other
12 form of causing the traffic to slow down? Can you describe how
13 the point was set up in the road?
14 A. From the direction of Kozarac towards Prijedor, on the
15 right-hand side there was a container in which the policemen
16 were accommodated and on the road itself there were signs of
17 warning and speed reduction, so that vehicles and drivers moving
18 along the Prijedor/Banka Luka road could easily be stopped and
19 checked, both vehicles, drivers and the goods, and these
20 buildings were easily visible. At night there was a lamp.
21 There were signs of warning posted there and other necessary
23 Q. You said a container was by the side of the road. Can you tell
24 us what you mean by that?
25 A. A container is actually a prefabricated edifice about four
26 metres long and two metres wide, similar to those being used
27 today by the military.
28 Q. Is it right that the container is no longer there today?
1 MR. KAY: I will repeat that question, your Honour.
2 Q. Is it right that the container is no longer there today?
3 A. That is right. It is no longer there.
4 Q. Can you tell us when the container was taken away?
5 A. I think it was in 1996.
6 Q. Can you tell us if the container was there before the conflict
7 in Kozarac?
8 A. Well, I think it was placed there when the checkpoint was
10 Q. Was this just a police checkpoint or was there also a military
12 A. There were members of the military police present also.
13 Q. Did they also operate on a shift system?
14 A. Yes. We worked together.
15 Q. How many members of the military police would make up each
17 A. One or two.
18 Q. Did they have the same shift patterns as the civil police?
19 A. Yes. Yes.
20 Q. How many people were in your Unit when you were on duty at the
22 A. Most frequently there were four men, sometimes less, sometimes
23 more, but most frequently there were four.
24 Q. When you were on duty at this checkpoint, were all the police
25 that you were on duty with armed with weapons?
26 A. Yes.
27 Q. What type of weapons would they be?
28 A. We had pistols and automatic rifles.
1 Q. Were those weapons issued by the police in Prijedor?
2 A. Yes, those are our weapons belonging to the police.
3 Q. Were there any other checkpoints beyond Orlovci as you travelled
4 towards Kozarac?
5 A. It depends on the period we are talking about.
6 Q. The period I am asking you about is June and July 1992.
7 A. There was another checkpoint just before reaching Kozarac, but
8 it was smaller and it was of short duration.
9 Q. Was that checkpoint still in place after the conflict in
11 A. No, it was there for a very short period and then it was
13 Q. Can you recollect when it was abolished?
14 A. I do not know. I cannot remember.
15 Q. Did your work at checkpoint Orlovci come under the traffic
16 police department of Prijedor police station?
17 A. Yes, as I said, we checked drivers, vehicles and goods.
18 Q. What was the name of your Commander for the traffic police at
19 this time?
20 A. Duro Tupic (sic).
21 Q. I think that is "Prpos", your Honour. Is he still the Commander
22 of the traffic police today?
23 A. No.
24 Q. When did he cease to be the Commander of the traffic police?
25 When did Djuro Prpos cease to become the Commander of the
26 traffic police?
27 A. I cannot remember exactly, because since then two or three
28 Commanders have changed.
1 Q. What sort of Commander was Djuro Prpos like in June and July
3 A. I do not understand the question, but he was a professional
5 Q. Was he vigilant as to the duties of the officers who worked
6 under him?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Did he check that you were performing your duties?
9 A. Yes, he would come to check our duties.
10 Q. To check your duties, did that mean to check that everyone was
11 present who should have been?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did he like the men who served under him to be in proper
15 A. Yes, he required discipline ---- (Pause).
16 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I will repeat the last question again.
17 Q. Mr. Maric, I will repeat the last question again. Can you tell
18 the Court what the approach was of Djuro Prpos to discipline?
19 A. He required his subordinates to act in a professional manner.
20 Q. Would he have tolerated any of his policemen being drunk on
22 A. No.
23 Q. Would he have tolerated any of his policemen going absent from
24 their posts?
25 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honour, could I ask my friend not lead these
27 MR. KAY: I do not think it is a leading question, your Honour, to be
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Does it suggest an answer?
2 MR. KAY: The witness can say "yes" or "no".
3 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: "Yes" or "no". OK. Try not to lead.
4 MR. KAY: Yes. [To the witness]: Would he have tolerated any of his
5 policemen not being at their posts when they were meant to?
6 A. Our absence was allowed only during breakfast or at meal time,
7 so that we were obliged to be on duty at our post.
8 Q. Can you tell us how far the camp of Omarska would have been if
9 you had travelled in a vehicle from checkpoint Orlovci to the
10 camp at Omarska at that time in June or July 1992?
11 A. By car it would take roughly between 30 and 45 minutes to get
13 Q. In June or July 1992 were the conditions of the roads better or
14 worse than they are today?
15 A. Worse.
16 Q. Were they worse because of the events that had taken place at
17 that time?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did you ever discuss Emir Karabasic with Dusko Tadic?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. What were those discussions about?
22 A. I said that both of them were sportsmen. They liked karate.
23 Dusko used to train Emir and our talks were related to their
24 joint successes or failures, sports competitions. They were
25 friends there, etc.
26 Q. After Dusko Tadic ceased to work at checkpoint Orlovci, did you
27 come across him in any of his later positions or jobs?
28 A. Yes, I think that after starting to work at Orlovci that he was
1 employed or he did something at the local community, Mesna
2 Zajednica, in Kozarac. So he would often travel from Kozarac to
3 Prijedor, so he would go through the checkpoint Orlovci.
4 Q. Did you continue working then at checkpoint Orlovci after Dusko
5 Tadic had ceased his duties there?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. For how long did you continue to work at checkpoint Orlovci?
8 A. I think until 1995, sort of.
9 Q. I will ask the question again. When did you cease to work at
10 checkpoint Orlovci?
11 A. 1994, '95, I could not say exactly.
12 Q. Thank you. That is all I ask, but wait there. There will be
13 further questions of you.
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Niemann, do you have cross-examination?
15 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, your Honour.
16 Cross-examined by MR. NIEMANN
17 Q. Witness, could you tell us, please, your date of birth?
18 A. 1960.
19 Q. What is your father's name?
20 A. Stojan.
21 Q. What is your mother's name?
22 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter could not hear the name.
23 MR. NIEMANN: I am afraid we could not hear that name. Could you
24 repeat it for us, please?
25 A. Mira.
26 Q. What is your ethnicity?
27 A. I am a Serb.
28 Q. Do you have brothers and sisters?
1 A. I had a brother and I have a sister.
2 Q. What was your brother's name?
3 A. His name was Rajko.
4 Q. I think you said you live in Prijedor. Do you live in the town
5 of Prijedor or do you live out of Prijedor?
6 A. I live out of town.
7 Q. How far out of the town of Prijedor do you live?
8 A. The distance is about three and a half kilometres.
9 Q. In what direction is that place where you live?
10 A. The direction of the old part of the Prijedor/Banja Luka road.
11 Q. Did you live at this address in 1992?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Can you tell us the name of the village or the nearest village
14 to where you live?
15 A. The place where I live is called Donji Orlovci.
16 Q. Were you living in Donji Orlovci in 1992?
17 A. Yes.
18 Q. When you were working as a traffic policeman in 1992, what was
19 your dress code? What uniform did you wear?
20 A. In the beginning of 1992 the police uniform was the one that we
21 had before the war, and then we got the camouflage uniforms.
22 Q. When did you get the camouflage uniforms?
23 A. I cannot remember exactly, but I think it was in June or July,
24 that period, I think. I cannot remember the date exactly.
25 Q. You spoke of having an automatic weapon. Were you also issued
26 with a pistol and a knife?
27 A. I had a pistol and an automatic rifle, but I did not have a
1 Q. You spoke of checking vehicles and the people that were
2 travelling in them. What were you looking for when you stopped
3 the vehicles?
4 A. We would ask them for their driver's licence and for the licence
5 of the vehicle itself, and we would also ask for an ID for the
6 passengers and the drivers and also for the freight, if they had
8 Q. Dealing first with the people, what would happen if people
9 produced this identification and you checked it? What were you
10 looking for precisely?
11 A. I do not understand the question.
12 Q. If you found a person in a vehicle, his identification showed
13 that they come from the local area and that they were a Serb,
14 what would you do?
15 A. Nothing. If everything was normal, we would let people continue
16 to drive wherever they were going to.
17 Q. What did you consider to be abnormal?
18 A. I told you that emphasis was laid on traffic subject matters,
19 that is, drivers, whether they had driver's licences or not, and
20 the vehicle itself, was it technically in a good shape and
21 whether they had the proper documents and if they were carrying
22 freight whether they had the appropriate documents. So that is
23 the subject matter the traffic police deals with.
24 Q. By "freight" do you mean commercial freight or did you look at
25 people's personal possessions as well?
26 A. I meant commercial freight, yes.
27 Q. So you were not interested in, for example, weapons or
28 ammunition if that was in the vehicle?
1 A. It was the military police who were involved in that, but it was
2 not unusual at that time for people to carry weapons from the
3 front line or from somewhere else.
4 Q. In July 1992, if you found a Muslim driving a vehicle with a
5 weapon in the vehicle, what would you do?
6 A. It was the military police who were in charge, so we would hand
7 them over to the military police but there were no such cases.
8 Q. Do you know what happened to them once you handed them over to
9 the military police?
10 MR. KAY: I think he said there were no such cases, your Honour.
11 MR. NIEMANN: I will rephrase the question. What were you told to do
12 if you found Muslims with weapons driving motor vehicles that
13 come past your checkpoint?
14 A. I tell you, it was the military police that was in charge. So
15 such persons would be handed over to the military police, but we
16 did not have such cases.
17 Q. Do you know what the military police would have done with them
18 if you had found somebody with a vehicle with a Muslim in it who
19 had weapons?
20 A. They would probably question him to see where they got the
21 weapons from, etc.
22 Q. Before the conflict, did you perform patrols as a traffic
24 A. Yes. Our traffic police station was in charge of the wider
25 area, so we also did that in Kozarac too.
26 Q. Did you do this work alone or with others?
27 A. Most often we would have two of us in the vehicle.
28 Q. Did you operate only from a vehicle or did you also operate from
1 fixed positions on the road?
2 A. I did not understand your question or, rather, I did not hear it
4 Q. I will repeat the question for you. Did you only operate out of
5 your police vehicle or did you operate also from fixed positions
6 or control points on roads?
7 A. Before the war, the traffic police carried out their duties in
8 terms of speed limits too, that is to say, we worked with
9 radars. We would stand at positions where exceeding the speed
10 limit would jeopardise traffic, so then we would check vehicles
11 and persons driving them -- everything that was within our
12 jurisdiction, so to speak.
13 Q. But would you do this only when you were operating out of your
14 police vehicle or was there fixed control points like the one at
16 A. You mean before the war?
17 Q. Yes, before the war, sorry.
18 A. There were certain positions but they were not fixed. There
19 were not positions where you had to be. There was not a plan of
20 that sort. The plan would be worked out in accordance to things
21 that were actually taking place, traffic accidents, pedestrians,
22 the time of the day, the way in which this happened. That is
23 why we would take a certain position so that we would prevent
24 anything bad from happening.
25 Q. Did you ever see Dule Tadic in Prijedor before 22nd May 1992?
26 A. Yes, yes.
27 Q. When did you see him, and if you cannot be precise,
1 A. Let me say that Dule Tadic was then just a normal person like
2 anybody else. Nobody really paid special attention to him. So
3 I would not really have to remember everything in connection
4 with him. So I saw him in '91 or '90 perhaps. I cannot
5 remember exactly.
6 Q. Did you see him in the early part of 1992 in Prijedor?
7 A. I do not know. I cannot remember.
8 Q. When you saw him in Prijedor where did you see him?
9 A. In passing, simply in passing.
10 Q. When you were on checkpoint at Orlovci in June/July 1992,
11 occasionally you would go away to the local houses, would you
12 not, and have coffee?
13 A. Rarely. It happened rarely.
14 Q. You would go home for lunch, would you not?
15 A. No, there was a restaurant near the checkpoint where we would go
16 for a brief meal, and during a certain period of time we even
17 had food brought to us to the checkpoint, so there was not any
18 need for us to leave the checkpoint itself.
19 Q. You said that during the conflict the police acted normally.
20 What did you mean by that?
21 A. Our regular police duties, that is to say, traffic control.
22 Q. But what you were doing at Orlovci was different to what you did
23 during peace time or before 1992, was it not?
24 A. Yes, during the war everything is different from what it was
26 Q. So they were not acting normally then during the war? Did you
27 hear my last question?
28 A. I did not quite understand you.
1 Q. Never mind. How often did you work with Dule Tadic?
2 A. I think it was seldom, we would be on the same shift, I mean.
3 That would happen rarely.
4 Q. You cannot help us at all with the dates that you worked with
5 Dule Tadic?
6 A. I do not know really.
7 Q. You cannot tell us whether it was early June, late June, early
8 July, late July, mid June, mid July, something like that, you
9 cannot help us that way?
10 A. I do not know. I cannot remember.
11 Q. You worked with him on more than one occasion?
12 A. Yes, yes, yes.
13 Q. How did you know who was on Dule's shift, that is, on the
14 occasions when you were not on his shift?
15 A. Because I would see these people during shift handover.
16 Q. Can you remember the names of the Commanders of the traffic
17 police since Prpos was the Commander?
18 A. I think Obrad Despotovic.
19 Q. Is he the only one you can remember?
20 A. Yes, after that there were other people.
21 Q. Can you remember any of their names?
22 A. Jankovic. I think there were not any more than that.
23 Q. When you worked on the shift at Orlovci with Dule Tadic, do you
24 remember whether it was day-shift or night-shift?
25 A. It was a cycle. You did not only have day-shifts or
26 night-shifts, so you would go through an entire circle. People
27 would work for 12 hours and then you would rest for 24 hours,
1 Q. Do you know whether when you worked with Dule, or can you
2 remember when you worked with Dule Tadic, it was the day-shift
3 or the night-shift?
4 A. I think that once we were on the day-shift and once in the
6 Q. After you finished your shift you went home, did you?
7 A. It depends at what time it would be.
8 Q. What do you mean by that? When did you not go home?
9 A. There were points in time when we would not go home, when we
10 were supposed to go to the police station to see whether there
11 other tasks and duties awaiting us, and there were other times
12 when we would normally go home after our shift.
13 Q. The other tasks or duty that you had to perform that were
14 awaiting you, what were those types of duties? Can you describe
15 them for us?
16 A. The traffic police had checkpoints, so one of these checkpoints
17 was Orlovci, and it would happen that sometimes some of the
18 policemen would not come to work on time and then others would
19 have to carry out his duties.
20 Q. When you went home were you ever called up to go back on duty
21 after you had gone home for your two days off, your 24 hours off
22 -- sorry, your 24 hours off?
23 MR. NIEMANN: We have not got a translation of that.
24 THE INTERPRETER: What happened, it would happen.
25 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Ask the witness. Witness, would you please
26 repeat your answer?
27 THE WITNESS: It would happen.
28 MR. NIEMANN: How often did it happen to you?
1 A. Yes. I cannot remember exactly.
2 Q. What was the procedure for changing shifts? How was this done?
3 A. Well, I would come to do my shift. I would get a report from my
4 colleague who had worked previously. He would say what happened
5 during his shift, what I should pay attention to, whether the
6 inventory was in order, etc.
7 Q. So, when you reported for duty, you were told when your next
8 duty was, is that right?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. You said sometimes you were told to pay attention to certain
11 matters. During that period, June/July 1992, can you remember
12 whether you were requested to pay attention to anything in
13 particular that you can bring to mind?
14 A. At that time, of course, the police carries out its regular
15 duties and tasks. However, if we are talking about
16 extraordinary tasks, then we are told what to do by telegram --
17 extraordinary tasks and duties, I mean.
18 Q. Can you tell us what the extraordinary tasks and duties were
19 during that time?
20 A. I cannot.
21 Q. You spoke of Dule Tadic being interested in sports. What kind
22 of competitions did Dule Tadic engage in?
23 A. Dule was the trainer of the sports club for karate from Kozarac
24 and he would take his sportsmen to various competitions to
25 different parts of Yugoslavia. I remember once he went to the
26 seaside, to Budva, I think, when my friend Karabasic injured his
27 foot at that competition.
28 Q. Do you know when ----
1 A. I think, I think it was in '82 or '83, I think.
2 Q. Do you ever recall him taking sportsmen outside of Yugoslavia or
3 is your recollection only of events or competitions taking place
4 within the former Yugoslavia?
5 A. I cannot remember any competition outside Yugoslavia.
6 Q. Did you ever read newspaper articles about his sporting
7 achievements or his involvement in sports?
8 A. No, I did not. All the information about sports I received from
9 Karabasic. He informed me about the progress he made, the belts
10 he won and the sporting activities and I enjoyed that.
11 Q. You suggested that Dule Tadic was not a nationalist. Are you
12 suggesting he was not particularly interested in politics?
13 A. I think that he was not interested in politics or, rather, when
14 we got together, when we talked also before the war, he never
15 mentioned politics. He was a man linked to sports. He loved
16 sports. He loved the youth. He liked a sporting life. He
17 sought his team to be as successful as possible, and I just
18 cannot understand that he could be a nationalist because he
19 lived in Kozarac where the majority of the population were
20 Muslims. So that if he was a nationalist, he would not have led
21 the youth in the way he did. He would not have been so active
22 in sports. I just cannot accept that he could be a nationalist.
23 Q. Did you know that he was one of the first members of the SDS
24 party in Prijedor?
25 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I heard this before and I cannot recollect any
26 evidence. I have heard Mr. Niemann say it, certainly, but
27 I have not heard any evidence to support this information.
28 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I thought Mrs. Tadic testified -- in Prijedor
1 or Kozarac?
2 MR. NIEMANN: It is in an Exhibit, your Honour.
3 MR. KAY: Perhaps if we could have the information? But Kozarac was
4 the particular place, but it did not have a party.
5 MR. NIEMANN: Exhibit 344, your Honour. Perhaps it might be shown to
6 my friend and if he cares to look at page ----
7 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: The witness would not have that Exhibit.
8 Maybe you can take a look at it, Mr. Kay.
9 MR. KAY: I do not know if the Prosecution have taken it out with
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is Mr. Wladimiroff there?
12 MR. KAY: Mr. Keegan is out there for the Prosecution. I think they
13 were taking their own Exhibits.
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is Mr. Wladimiroff there?
15 MR. KAY: Yes, he is.
16 MR. WLADIMIROFF: Yes, I am.
17 MR. KAY: Your Honour, in fact ----
18 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Hello, Mr. Wladimiroff.
19 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I have the information here. It is not
20 supported by any ----
21 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Why do you not take a look at it?
22 MR. KAY: I know the document.
23 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Maric, would you take off your earphones,
24 please? OK, go ahead, Mr. Kay.
25 MR. KAY: It is a document here written by the ----
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: What Exhibit?
27 MR. KAY: --- defendant. It is Exhibit 344 which is "My work report
28 for 1990 to 1993".
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is that the Exhibit, Mr. Niemann, you are
2 referring to?
3 MR. NIEMANN: Yes, your Honour. On the English version, Exhibit
4 344B, the last sentence of the first paragraph.
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Go ahead, Mr. Kay.
6 MR. KAY: It is not supported by any official documentation. It is
7 only the words of the particular person saying he was one of the
8 first members in Prijedor municipality, and no information to
9 say how he would know he was one of the first members in
10 Prijedor municipality.
11 We know that there was a political structure in
12 Prijedor, but nothing that takes it beyond that to say that he
13 was member No. 500 or member 1000 in terms of joining this
14 party. If it is going to be put, perhaps it ought to be put
15 within the context that it arrives, rather than being put in a
16 way that, perhaps, suggests that it comes from some official
17 source which it does not.
18 MR. NIEMANN: This is written by the accused himself, your Honour.
19 Obviously, it is the accused himself who can testify as to how
20 he knows about it, but until such time as the accused himself
21 enters the witness box and tells us details of how it is that he
22 comes to know it, we are entitled to put it in
23 cross-examination, in my submission.
24 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Exhibit 344 is the work report prepared by
25 Mr. Tadic dated August 8, 1993, Mr. Kay?
26 MR. KAY: That is right, your Honour.
27 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: The last sentence of the first full paragraph
28 says: "I saw joining the SDS as my only solution and became one
1 of the first members of the SDS in Prijedor municipality". Your
2 position is that in writing this Mr. Tadic may not have known
3 that he was No. 1, No. 5 or whatever.
4 MR. KAY: Yes.
5 (The learned Judges conferred)
6 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Judge Stephen has suggested that you put it,
7 Mr. Niemann, to the witness: Did you know that Mr. Tadic has
8 said that he was one of the first members of the SDS in the
9 Prijedor municipality? So I will overrule your objection,
10 Mr. Kay.
11 MR. KAY: No objection to that form, your Honour.
12 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: He said that. Of course, it goes to the
13 weight, but he said he was. OK.
14 [To the witness]: Mr. Marro, would you ask Mr. Maric
15 to put his earphones on again, please? Thank you, sir.
16 Mr. Niemann?
17 MR. NIEMANN: Witness, are you aware of the fact that Dule Tadic
18 described himself as becoming one of the first members of the
19 SDS in the Prijedor municipality?
20 A. No, I was not aware of it.
21 Q. Were you aware of the fact that he was involved or participated
22 in the organisation of a plebiscite relating to the interests of
23 the SDS in 1991, 1992 -- sorry, 1991?
24 A. No, I am not aware of it.
25 Q. Are you aware of the fact that he held a political position in
26 Kozarac after the fall of 1992?
27 A. No, I am not aware of it.
28 Q. During June or July 1992 did you ever visit Omarska?
1 A. I am sorry, I did not hear the question.
2 Q. During ----
3 A. Did I?
4 Q. --- the period June/July 1992 did you ever visit Omarska?
5 A. Yes, I was there once.
6 Q. When was that?
7 A. I cannot remember the date, but it was -- I do not know the
8 date. I went there with a tank driver to get fuel in Omarska.
9 I had never ridden in a tank before and I wanted to see the
10 interior of a tank and to have a ride in it. The driver
11 switched on the tank. I asked him where he was going. He said
12 he was going to Omarska to get fuel. I asked him if I could
13 take a ride with him. So, when we went to Omarska I did not
14 even know exactly where.
15 Q. Is it by virtue of this trip that you are able to ascertain the
16 time it took to get to Omarska and the conditions of the road on
17 the way?
18 A. Let me see, this was before the checkpoint at Orlovci was
19 positioned. I do not understand the question relating to the
20 condition of the roads.
21 Q. Did you travel to Omarska during June/July 1992?
22 A. I think this must have been June, June.
23 Q. Are you saying that the Orlovci checkpoint had not been
24 established in June?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. So was the Orlovci checkpoint established in July, was it?
27 A. I am sorry. I was not working at the checkpoint at that time,
28 that short period of time. This may have been a question of a
1 couple of days.
2 Q. A couple of days in June?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. A couple of days in June when the Orlovci checkpoint was not
6 A. When I was not working at the checkpoint.
7 Q. But did you not say that the checkpoint had not been
9 A. One can interpret this establishment in several ways. The
10 positioning of the police without the container, without the
11 little hut without all the necessary equipment later, and the
12 establishment of a proper checkpoint. So this took some time.
13 When it was established, immediately after its establishment,
14 all the facilities did not exist. These were introduced later.
15 Q. When were these facilities introduced?
16 A. I do not know.
17 Q. Approximately how long after the checkpoint was established were
18 the facilities introduced?
19 THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry. There is no tone in the earphones.
20 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Maric, can you hear us?
21 THE WITNESS: Yes.
22 MR. NIEMANN: I am sorry, we did not hear your last answer. Could
23 you possibly repeat your last answer, please?
24 A. I did not pay attention to the time it took to establish the
25 checkpoint and to provide the facilities later.
26 Q. But you lived nearby, did you not?
27 THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry. The interpreter cannot hear.
28 MR. NIEMANN: Would your Honours like to take ----
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We will stand ----
2 THE WITNESS: Can you hear me?
3 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We will stand in ----
4 THE WITNESS: I lived about four kilometres away from the checkpoint
5 and, apart from working there, I had no connections with the
6 checkpoint. I used a different road to go to town. It is not
7 the same road. I told you there were two roads, an old one and
8 a new one, and I used the old one to go to town.
9 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honour, if we perhaps take the adjournment now?
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We will stand in recess for 20 minutes.
11 (11.30 a.m.)
12 (The Court adjourned for a short time)
13 (11.50 a.m.)
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Niemann, you may continue.
15 MR. NIEMANN: Thank you, your Honour.
16 Q. Witness, was the trip that you took from Orlovci to Omarska in
17 June 1992 in a tank the only trip that you took between Orlovci
18 and Omarska in June and July 1992?
19 A. That was the first time.
20 Q. Was it the only time or did you travel on another occasion in
21 June/July 1992?
22 A. I travelled by train.
23 Q. How did you go from Orlovci to Omarska by train? Can you help
24 us with that?
25 A. No, I never went there by train.
26 Q. Did you go to Omarska from some other place by train?
27 A. I went by train from Prijedor to Banja Luka and Sarajevo.
28 I travelled frequently the distance between Prijedor and
1 Sarajevo going through Omarska.
2 Q. This is in June and July 1992, is it?
3 A. No, I told you that I never went by train at that time. I never
4 covered the distance Prijedor/Omarska at that time.
5 Q. Yes, there may be some confusion, but I am only asking you to
6 confine yourself to June/July 1992. My first question was when
7 you went by tank in June 1992, was that the one and only trip
8 that you took or did you go on other occasions in June or July
10 A. I had other occasions to cover the distance Prijedor/Orlovci,
11 Prijedor/Omarska, Prijedor/Banja Luka. I did have other
13 Q. This was in June/July 1992?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Did you travel by train in June/July 1992 from Prijedor to
17 A. No.
18 Q. Then how did you get to Omarska in June/July 1992 other than the
19 time that you went there by the tank?
20 A. I travelled in a passenger vehicle.
21 Q. Did you travel in a police vehicle?
22 A. Once it was a police vehicle, I think, and several times I went
23 in a passenger vehicle to Banja Luka.
24 Q. I am only interested in you telling us about when you went to
25 Omarska. Did you go to Omarska on your way to Banja Luka?
26 A. I do not know whether you fully understand the notion of
28 Q. I possibly do not fully understand. Perhaps you might tell me
1 where you went when you went to Omarska in June/July 1992?
2 A. On the Prijedor/Banja Luka road, moving from Prijedor, you turn
3 right towards Omarska. It is a settlement, a locality, which is
4 I think about six kilometres from the main road. Are you
5 interested in that locality as such or only the part of the
7 Q. I am interested in both. I am interested in the road that you
8 went to Omarska by and where you went to when you went to
10 A. When I went on a tank, I went to the mine, the Omarska mine, and
11 when I went to Banja Luka, I passed through along the road going
12 to Banja Luka. I did not turn off to Omarska.
13 Q. Is this the only other occasion that you went by the road to
15 A. I do not understand again. I told you, when you go from
16 Prijedor to Banja Luka you do not pass through the settlement of
17 Omarska. There is a turning leading to that settlement. So
18 there is no need to enter the settlement. Only if you wish to
19 go to the locality of Omarska then you turn off the
20 Prijedor/Banja Luka road to the right to Omarska.
21 Q. How far is Omarska from the Prijedor to Banja Luka road?
22 A. I do not know exactly, about six kilometres, I think.
23 Q. What I am concentrating on is your travel from either Prijedor
24 or Orlovci to Omarska during June/July 1992. On one occasion
25 you went by tank. You spoke of two other occasions, one when
26 you went in a private vehicle and one when you went in a police
27 vehicle. When you went in the private vehicle, did you go to
28 Omarska mine again?
1 A. No, no.
2 Q. When you went in the police vehicle did you go to Omarska?
3 A. You mean the Omarska mine?
4 Q. Did you go to either Omarska mine or Omarska, either?
5 A. Yes, in a police vehicle, yes.
6 Q. When you went in the police vehicle where did you go?
7 A. I went to the Omarska police station.
8 Q. On that occasion did you go from Orlovci or from Prijedor?
9 A. I cannot remember. I think I went from Prijedor directly.
10 Q. Do you think that there may have been other times when you
11 travelled to Omarska in June or July 1992, but you cannot
12 remember precisely those trips now?
13 A. No. No, there were no other occasions.
14 Q. So, you are definite that you only travelled there on two
15 occasions in June/July 1992?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. You said that Emir Karabasic was a mutual friend of you and Dule
18 Tadic, is that right?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. And that Dule Tadic was a close friend of Emir Karabasic?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Were they still close friends in the time that you spoke to Dule
23 Tadic about Emir Karabasic in July 1992?
24 A. Were they still close friends? I know that Dule always spoke
25 about Emir in positive terms and that Emir spoke in positive
26 terms about Dule. They were friends. They were sportsmen.
27 They socialised outside sports as well, and that is how I met
28 them as such.
1 Q. So you detected no change in their relationship in the year of
2 1992, I mean, the relationship between Dule Tadic and Emir
4 A. No, I could not notice anything.
5 Q. Dule Tadic did not say anything to you in July 1992 which
6 suggested that there had been a change in their relationship?
7 A. No, he did not.
8 Q. When Dule Tadic passed your checkpoint at Orlovci after he had
9 finished working there, when he was going to Kozarac, how was he
10 travelling, by what means?
11 A. I think he had a passenger vehicle.
12 Q. You may not remember this, but could you describe the vehicle
13 that he drove on that occasion?
14 A. I cannot because I saw him a couple of times but in different
15 vehicles. They were different. They were not always the same
16 vehicle. So I could not say whether he owned or drove a single
18 Q. Did you check his papers in the same way as you checked
19 everybody else's papers when they drove to the checkpoint at
21 A. Well, you see, every vehicle was stopped at the checkpoint, and
22 if you stop the same vehicle or the same persons frequently you
23 necessarily get to know them, so that you do not need to spend
24 more time with that particular driver. So, you stop the
25 vehicle, you look at the papers, you identify the person and
26 then you let them pass.
27 Q. So Dule Tadic drove past a sufficient number of times such that
28 you did not need to check his papers on every occasion?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Do you remember checking his papers on any occasion when he
3 drove past your checkpoint at Orlovci?
4 A. I personally did not, but I think my colleagues working there
5 did once or twice.
6 Q. You saw your colleagues check his papers as he drove through?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You said in your evidence that Commander Prpos imposed very
9 strict discipline. Do you remember that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. As a consequence of imposing this discipline on you, you would
12 have had to follow the orders and directions of the police in
13 Prijedor, would you not?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. By May 1992, the police in Prijedor had been taken over by the
16 Serb SDS party, the Serb administration, had it not?
17 A. I did not understand you.
18 Q. There had been a change in administration from the Muslim
19 administration in Prijedor to the Serb administration in 1992
20 and by May that change had taken place, had it not, in Prijedor
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. The police were under the control of that administration in May
24 1992, were they not?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. If that administration had given orders to the police, like you
27 followed orders of your Commander Prpos, the police would have
28 been obliged to follow the orders of the administration as well,
1 would they not?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. By the end of May 1992 the police and civilian authorities were
4 involved in carrying out of ethnic cleansing of Muslims
5 throughout the opstina of Prijedor, were they not?
6 A. No.
7 Q. The same police and civilian administrations participated in
8 sending Muslims to camps in the opstina Prijedor?
9 A. The police did not participate in those activities.
10 Q. The police were involved, were they not, in the carrying out of
11 murders and tortures in the camps in the opstina of Prijedor in
12 that period from May through to September 1992?
13 A. I am not aware of that.
14 MR. NIEMANN: I have no further questions, your Honour.
15 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay?
16 Re-Examined by MR. KAY
17 MR. KAY: Thank you, your Honour. Your Honour, I have had a note
18 from Banja Luka advising me of a number of matters on the
19 transcript that have not come out properly there which I propose
20 to deal with again because they have not been recorded in the
21 same form as here.
22 Q. The first matter I want to ask you about ----
23 MR. NIEMANN: Your Honours, it is a little unfair if this is
24 one-sided and we are told that there are difficulties with the
25 transcript in Banja Luka and we are given no such information.
26 I think, in fairness to both parties in these proceedings, if
27 Mr. Marro has difficulties with the transcript in Banja Luka,
28 then it is appropriate that it be passed on to both parties.
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, I have enquired about the technical
2 facilities. I am told that the transcript that we receive is
3 the same transcript there.
4 MR. KAY: Yes.
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: So it is not different words, but you are
6 saying there have been some errors on the transcript ----
7 MR. KAY: Yes.
8 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: --- that you wish to correct?
9 MR. KAY: Yes.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: But it is not that there is a different
11 transcript in Banja Luka?
12 MR. KAY: I am unable to watch the transcript. What I have received
13 is a fax from Banja Luka pointing out these matters to me. The
14 Prosecution have a lawyer present there as well.
15 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Certainly. You may clarify questions. I just
16 wanted to assure myself that the transcript that we have here is
17 the same transcript.
18 MR. KAY: Yes.
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I am told that it is, but if there are errors
20 in the transcript, then you may clarify.
21 MR. KAY: I am much obliged, your Honour, thank you.
22 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I will overrule your objection on that.
23 MR. KAY [To the witness]: The first matter I want to ask you about
24 Mr. Maric is this: it concerns the place of the checkpoint at
25 Orlovci. The answer recorded was that it was at the
26 "Prijedor/Prijedor road"? Perhaps you would like to re-explain
27 to us where the checkpoint at Orlovci is in relation to the
28 roads between Prijedor and Banja Luka?
1 A. If you are moving from Banja Luka, you pass through Kozarac.
2 Then you reach the checkpoint at Orlovci and then you get to
4 Q. So is it on the Prijedor to Banja Luka road?
5 A. Yes, the checkpoint is at the Prijedor to Banja Luka road.
6 Q. The next matter I have been asked to clarify with you is if you
7 are travelling from Banja Luka to Prijedor, which side of the
8 road is the tree that you called the walnut tree?
9 A. If you are travelling from Banja Luka to Prijedor, it is on the
10 right-hand side of the road.
11 MR. KAY: Thank you. That is all I ask about those matters. You
12 referred to seeing Dusko Tadic in a motor vehicle after he had
13 finished working at checkpoint Orlovci passing through the
14 checkpoint on a number of occasions. Do you know if he was
15 driving the vehicle he was in or was he a passenger?
16 A. I cannot say for certain because most frequently he was not
18 Q. In your experience of working at checkpoint Orlovci, if people
19 wished to travel that time between Kozarac and Prijedor and they
20 did not own a vehicle, would they stop vehicles and have a ride
21 by hitchhiking between the two places?
22 A. The population knew that vehicles moving in both directions were
23 being checked at our checkpoint. At that time the traffic was
24 not very heavy, there were no bus connections, there was a
25 shortage of petrol, there was a war going on, so that the local
26 population would be transported with private vehicles.
27 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not hear all of that, I am
1 MR. KAY: Perhaps if the answer could be repeated again, Mr. Maric,
2 as we did not hear all of your answer here? I will repeat the
3 question for you, if that is easier.
4 In your experience, having worked at checkpoint
5 Orlovci during this period of 1992, if people were travelling
6 from Kozarac to Prijedor and did not own their own vehicle, did
7 they travel between those two destinations by autostop or
8 hitchhiking and obtaining a lift from a vehicle that was passing
9 along the main road?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. You told us of your ride in the tank to Omarska. Did that tank
12 take you to the site of the iron ore mine outside the village of
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. When you were in that tank at the site of the iron ore mine, do
16 you know which part of that place the tank went to?
17 A. It went to the petrol pump to refuel.
18 Q. Can you tell us where the petrol pump would be placed if you
19 entered the camp by the main gate?
20 A. I think it was on the left-hand side. That was the first time
21 I went to the mine and it was the first time I saw the pump
23 Q. What other buildings of the site of the mine were in that area
24 where the pump station was?
25 A. You asked about other buildings? I did not hear you very well.
26 Q. Yes. Can you tell us if there are any other buildings nearby
27 the site of that pump station, and if you know what they are can
28 you tell us?
1 A. If you are viewing it from the main entrance, to the right is a
2 big building. I think it is for the overhaul or repair of
3 vehicles, of heavy duty trucks.
4 Q. Can you tell us what distance away from that building is the
5 petrol pump station?
6 A. I do not know exactly, not more than 50, maybe 100 metres. I do
7 not know exactly.
8 Q. Do you know the distance from Omarska village of the iron ore
9 mine site?
10 A. The village is divided from the mine by the railway line. So
11 are you thinking of the vehicle repair building or the actual
12 pits? Which part of the mine?
13 Q. Take the vehicle repair building.
14 A. The building where vehicles are repaired that I mentioned a
15 moment ago?
16 Q. Yes.
17 A. I think it is about two kilometres away. I do not know exactly.
18 Q. When you said you had travelled to Omarska by train when you had
19 taken a train from Prijedor to Banja Luka and to Sarajevo, did
20 you mean that your train had passed through the village of
21 Omarska on its way to Banja Luka?
22 A. Yes, that is exact.
23 Q. You said that the checkpoint at Orlovci had existed in different
24 forms. Before the conflict in Kozarac, had there been a
25 checkpoint at Orlovci but in a different form to that in June
26 and July 1992?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Had you worked on that checkpoint in its other form before June
1 1992 or before the conflict in Kozarac?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. We can see you on the video monitor here and you have no
4 documents in front of you. You were asked about dates of
5 working at checkpoint Orlovci and when it took a particular
6 form. If you had records before you, would that help you in
7 relation to being precise about dates or months?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Were you involved in any way in the activities concerning Muslim
10 people or people from Croatia who were held in camps in the
11 region of opstina Prijedor in any way?
12 A. No.
13 MR. KAY: Thank you. That is all I ask.
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Niemann?
15 MR. NIEMANN: No questions, your Honour. We would ask that the
16 witness not be released, your Honour.
17 Examined by the Court
18 JUDGE STEPHEN: One question, witness, that I wanted to ask you
19 about: you told us about conversations that you had with
20 Mr. Tadic about your mutual friend Karabasic.
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you talk at all to Tadic about where Karabasic was after the
23 conflict, what had happened to him?
24 A. It is only normal that I asked him because he was a common
25 friend and I asked him whether he knew anything about what had
26 happened to him.
27 Q. Did you get any answer to that from Mr. Tadic?
28 A. He said that he did not know anything about him and that he did
1 not know what had happened to him during these conflicts.
2 Q. You yourself, did you have any information about what had
3 happened to Karabasic, apart from what Mr. Tadic told you which
4 was nothing really?
5 A. No.
6 JUDGE STEPHEN: Thank you.
7 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Maric, when did you start at the Orlovci
8 checkpoint? When did you first begin?
9 A. I do not recollect the exact date.
10 Q. Was it before June 1992?
11 A. I told you that there are two stages, so to speak, of this
12 Orlovci checkpoint, the stage until the war, until the conflict,
13 broke out and during the time of these conflicts, and the stage
14 when it was -- as it was until the very end, that is to say,
15 with a container and everything else I explained about.
16 Q. Were you working at the Orlovci checkpoint when the conflict
17 broke out in May 1992?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Did Mr. Tadic begin to work at the Orlovci checkpoint after you
20 began to work at the Orlovci checkpoint?
21 A. I think that he came a bit later, I think.
22 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I have no further questions. Mr. Kay?
23 MR. KAY: No, thank you, your Honour.
24 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Niemann?
25 MR. NIEMANN: Would your Honour excuse me for a minute?
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes.
27 MR. NIEMANN: I am sorry, your Honour. We are just checking
28 something on the transcript.
1 Rather than hold the Court up at this stage, your
2 Honour, I would ask that the witness not be released.
3 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, you have no further questions?
4 Mr. Maric, you are free to leave now. However, you may be
5 recalled as a witness so you should make yourself available
6 because you may be asked to return again to testify. So,
7 Mr. Wladimiroff is there and you need to keep in touch with him,
8 or he will be in touch with you, if you are asked to come and
9 testify again at that location. Do you understand that?
10 THE WITNESS: Yes.
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you. You are free to leave now. Thank
13 (The witness withdrew)
14 Mr. Kay and Mr. Niemann, at some point it would be
15 helpful to the Chamber if you were to write this witness's name
16 in Cyrillic, not you Mr. Wladimiroff, when he returns. I am
17 just asking that it be done because I have looked through the
18 Exhibits trying to find him -- I think it is 66(A), one of the
19 rosters -- some of it is in the Cyrillic alphabet and some is
21 MR. KAY: Yes.
22 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I was looking for his name and could not find
23 it, but if it is in Cyrillic, that is why I could not find it.
24 MR. KAY: Maybe someone from the translation department.
25 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes, that is a good idea, with some approval
26 between the two of you. It does not have to be done today.
27 Someone will do that then.
28 Mr. Marro is there. Would you call your next witness,
1 please, Mr. Kay.
2 MR. KAY: Yes. The next witness to be called by video link, your
3 Honour, is Djuro Prpos.
4 Djuro Prpos, called.
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Marro would you administer the oath to
6 Mr. Prpos, please.
7 THE WITNESS [In translation]: I solemnly declare that I will speak
8 the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.
9 (The witness was sworn).
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, you may begin.
11 MR. KAY: Thank you.
12 Examined by Mr. Kay.
13 Q. Could you give the Court your full name, please?
14 A. My name is Djuro Prpos.
15 Q. Are you a serving police officer at Prijedor Police Station?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Are you a Police Commander?
18 A. Not right now.
19 Q. If you could tell the Court what your rank is now?
20 A. Major of the police.
21 Q. Is that superior or inferior to a Police Commander?
22 A. It is a position which is not superior. At present I am
23 Inspector for the co-ordination and monitoring of traffic
25 Q. When did you commence your work as a serving police officer?
26 A. In 1973.
27 Q. How old are you now, Mr. Prpos?
28 A. I was born in 1952.
1 Q. Are you a married man?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. Do you have children?
4 A. Yes, four.
5 Q. Do you live in Prijedor or outside Prijedor?
6 A. In Prijedor.
7 Q. For how long have you lived in Prijedor?
8 A. I have lived in Prijedor since 1974.
9 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter thinks.
10 THE WITNESS: Or 84 rather.
11 MR. KAY: Perhaps I will repeat the question. We did not hear that
12 perhaps correctly. When did you start to live in Prijedor?
13 A. 1984, and I have been working in Prijedor since 1979.
14 Q. In 1992 in which division of the police did you work?
15 Unfortunately we have gone down. I will repeat the question.
16 I am sorry, Mr. Prpos, but the communication did not come
17 through to us. In 1992 in which division of the police did you
19 A. I worked in the police station for traffic security.
20 Q. When did you start that kind of work at the police station?
21 A. I do not find the question very clear.
22 Q. When did you commence your work in the police station for
23 traffic security?
24 A. From 1979.
25 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter cannot hear him any longer.
26 MR. KAY: In 1992 what was your rank as an officer in traffic
28 A. In '92 I was Commander of the militia, the police for traffic
1 safety. At that time I did not have a rank because things were
2 not established that way then. There were only functional
3 insignia, so to speak.
4 Q. Do you know Dusko Tadic?
5 A. Yes, I do.
6 Q. When did you first meet Dusko Tadic?
7 A. I met him when he came to work in the station where I was
9 Q. What did he come to work as at your station?
10 A. He was a policeman, a Reserve Policeman.
11 Q. Do you know if that was part of his mobilization or not?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you know what work he started when he came to your station?
14 A. I do not know.
15 Q. Do you have records that are kept of the duties of police
16 officers within the traffic security?
17 A. We do.
18 Q. I would like you now to look at a book that is Defence Exhibit
19 66A. If a copy of that can be put before you.
20 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I was just going to comment about how well
21 things were going and I wonder whether people looking at this
22 wonder what is going on. Our Rules provide for depositions to
23 be taken by video link, but the Defence requested that testimony
24 be offered to the Tribunal by a video link ----
25 MR. KAY: Yes.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: --- for the convenience of witnesses and so
27 that has been arranged. We have been hearing the testimony
28 through that procedure very well. It looks like we are back
1 now. OK. Go ahead Mr. Kay.
2 MR. KAY: Thank you, your Honour.
3 Mr. Prpos, do you recognise that book as being a copy
4 of a document?
5 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter cannot hear anything. There is no
6 sound whatsoever.
7 MR. KAY: I will repeat the question. Mr. Prpos, we lost your
8 communication then and I will repeat the question. Do you
9 recognise that copy document that has been put in front of you
10 and, if so, can you tell us what it is?
11 A. I recognise it. It is the daily log, as it were.
12 Q. It is the daily log for what?
13 A. For the work of policemen for that particular day.
14 Q. Is this a log for a particular division of the police?
15 THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry, but there seem to be interruptions in
16 the tone.
17 MR. KAY: I will repeat the question again. Is it a record for a
18 particular division of the Prijedor Police?
19 A. Yes, it is for the entire police station and I was its
21 Q. Of which police station?
22 A. It is the police for traffic security, safety on roads.
23 Q. When did this document first begin? From which date does it
25 A. Specifically this particular document on 1st June 1990.
26 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter could not hear the year.
27 THE WITNESS: So that is before the war.
28 MR. KAY: Would that be 1991?
1 A. Yes, yes.
2 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter also has an interrupted tone now.
3 I cannot understand it.
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Just ask him to repeat his answer.
5 MR. KAY: Could you repeat your answer, please, Mr. Prpos. We are
6 having some interference here.
7 THE WITNESS: This was used before the war also, before 1992. So
8 that is in the police station where I worked.
9 MR. KAY: Your Honour, it may be we are getting a little too many
10 difficulties for the proceedings to flow smoothly at this
11 stage. I know it is before 1.00 o'clock. I can tell on my
12 headphones it is intermittent.
13 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We will stand in recess until 2.30, and then we
14 will continue with the video link. However, as the parties have
15 agreed, if it becomes so difficult then we can use the procedure
16 of depositions.
17 MR. KAY: Yes.
18 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It is up to you, Mr. Kay. Very good. We will
19 stand in recess until 2.30.
20 (12.55 p.m.)
21 (Luncheon Adjournment)
1 (2.30 p.m.)
2 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, would you continue, please?
3 MR. KAY: Thank you, your Honour.
4 Q. Mr. Prpos, before the break I was asking you to look at a
5 document marked 66A. Can that be placed in front of you,
6 please? You told us before the break that this book began in
7 1991. Is it right that the cover of the book is dated 1st June
9 A. Yes, that is accurate.
10 Q. If you now turn to the second page in the book, is that page a
11 page that contains the official police stamps?
12 A. Yes, that is accurate.
13 Q. Is it headed "Official duty plan" both in Latin script as well
14 as Cyrillic?
15 A. Yes, that is accurate.
16 Q. I would like you to now turn to the page in the book which shows
17 on that page the date of 1st June 1991. Can you see that page?
18 A. I see it.
19 Q. Is this a page showing the duties that took place on that date
20 under the command of the then head of the traffic police?
21 A. Yes, that is true. The Deputy Commander is signed, and that is
22 the duty that I performed at that time.
23 Q. Thank you. If you could then turn to the next page which is
24 headed "18th August 1991"? Can you see that?
25 A. I can see it.
26 Q. Again, is this signed at the foot of the page in the right-hand
27 corner by the then head of the traffic police?
28 A. Yes, it was Djenadija Marko, Commander.
1 Q. We are looking here at pages that have jumped from 1st June to
2 18th August 1991. Is it right that these are extracts that have
3 been taken from the original of the book which is held at
4 Prijedor police station?
5 A. Yes, that is accurate. These are excerpts from the original.
6 Q. Can you confirm that this book that we are looking at in this
7 form has had the names of people blanked over?
8 A. Yes, that is true. There is a number of an order of a certain
9 service and the composition of the patrol and the vehicle which
10 they used during patrol.
11 Q. Was it a condition of this being given to the Defence in this
12 form that these names that were not relevant to the Defence
13 could be blanked over?
14 A. Yes, that is true, because this is data which is not relevant,
15 so the names and surnames of other members of the patrols were
16 blanked over.
17 Q. Could you turn to the next page and is this dated 30th August
19 A. Yes, Friday, 30th August 1991.
20 Q. Again, is this an example of a page of the book before June
22 A. Yes, it was signed by Commander Fikret Kadiric.
23 Q. Could you turn to the next page is it headed 14th June 1992?
24 A. Yes, Sunday, June 14th 1992.
25 Q. In the right-hand corner of this page, is that signed by you?
26 A. It is not my signature. It is the signature of the policeman
27 who was in charge of records.
28 Q. What is the name of that policeman?
1 A. Cvijic Zoran.
2 Q. The page that we are looking at for 14th June 1992 we have on
3 our page three shifts for checkpoint Orlovci, is that right?
4 A. Yes, that is right, from 17 to 1500, from 1500 to 2100 hours and
5 from 2100 to 0700.
6 Q. In the parts of these pages that have been blanked out, are they
7 also the shifts for other checkpoints?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Have those details been blanked over in the copying of this
10 document so that it could be handed to the Defence?
11 A. Yes, it was blanked over with a piece of paper actually so in
12 the photocopying it was deleted so you could only see the
13 numbers of the patrol orders that certain services had.
14 Q. I would like you to tell us, first of all, whose writing is it
15 on this page where we see "punkt Orlovci" and the part of the
16 names of the officers who would have consisted of that duty?
17 A. That is the handwriting of policeman Zoran Cvijic.
18 Q. How does this book come to be made up?
19 A. You saw the beginning that, in principle, it is the Deputy
20 Commander who fills this out, because I was carrying out this
21 duty by myself at that time. After certain repetitions in the
22 service, any policeman could have done it. He would only
23 rewrite the shifts for the next day.
24 Q. Is this book with its details of the shift patterns at Orlovci
25 written before the shift takes place at that time on that date
26 or afterwards?
27 A. This is written out a day before the actual duty takes place,
28 and I wish to say that after that this is typed out on a piece
1 of paper and it is officially verified by the Commander, and it
2 is only after that that this timetable is put on a bulletin
3 board so that the policemen can see who was on duty when.
4 Q. In the typing out of the piece of paper that is put on the
5 bulletin board, is that a document you would have seen?
6 A. Yes, because it is only when I verify it that it can be put up
7 on the bulletin boards.
8 Q. What has happened to the piece of paper, for instance, for this
9 date of 14th June 1992? Are those documents kept?
10 A. As far as I know, these documents have not been preserved, apart
11 from this book.
12 Q. Who decided which officers would take part in which shift?
13 A. I did.
14 Q. When did you make that decision that the shifts would consist of
15 certain officers? Was that before this book was written?
16 A. Before, because then this book comes in as an auxiliary
18 Q. So did you communicate to Zoran Cvijic whom you wanted on each
19 particular shift and the time that each shift would have its
21 A. Yes, one can see from here that there is a certain equal rhythm,
22 if you look at the actual distribution. If a person works one
23 day, then he does not work the next two days, for example. So
24 this becomes automatic after a time.
25 Q. Could we now turn to the next page which is headed "15th June
26 1992"? Is this the writing of Zoran Cvijic on this page?
27 A. Yes.
28 Q. Was it written under your authority?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Is the signature in the right-hand corner written by him on your
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. We see on the date of 15th June 1992 that the checkpoint Orlovci
6 shift between 1500 to 2100 contained Brdar Miroslav and Cvijic
7 Miroslav. Can you see that?
8 A. Yes, I see it.
9 Q. And a third member of the Unit whose name has been blanked out,
10 can you see that?
11 A. I can.
12 Q. That third member of the Unit on that day, was that Dusko Tadic
13 or someone else?
14 A. This was someone else. I am not sure, but it is not Dusko
16 Q. Miroslav Brdar and Miroslav Cvijic, do you know how long they
17 had been working at checkpoint Orlovci before this time of
18 15th June 1992?
19 A. No, I could not say with certainty.
20 Q. Were they regular policemen or reserve policemen?
21 A. One can see in the records.
22 Q. Were they regular policemen or reserve?
23 A. Reserve policemen.
24 Q. Were they forming their duties as part of their mobilization?
25 A. Yes, all reserve policemen were performing their duties under
26 the mobilization which existed earlier, before the war.
27 Q. Can we now turn to the next page of 16th June 1992? Is that the
28 writing again of Zoran Cvijic?
1 A. Yes.
2 Q. Has he signed at the bottom right-hand corner on your behalf?
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. Looking at this page, it shows that 16th June 1992 had at
5 checkpoint Orlovci between 700 and 1500 hours the shift of Dusko
6 Tadic and Miroslav Brdar and Miroslav Cvijic. Can you see that?
7 A. Yes, I can see that, that is correct.
8 Q. Do you know if Dusko Tadic had worked as a reserve policeman at
9 Prijedor police station before this date of 16th June?
10 A. As far as I know, he did not.
11 Q. Can you tell us why he was given this duty at checkpoint
13 A. Within the framework of the mobilization and the needs of the
14 service, on the basis of a timetable, he was chosen to work at
15 that particular checkpoint.
16 Q. Was it your decision that he work at this checkpoint?
17 A. It was my exclusive decision.
18 Q. Was it your decision that he work with this Unit?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. If we turn to the next page of 17th June 1992, again is that
21 page written by Zoran Cvijic?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. The duties performed by that Unit of Cvijic, Brdar and Tadic,
24 would that have taken place under your direction?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. We know, as we have been through this book, until the end of
27 July 1992 that, in fact, this information is repeated on
28 virtually every day but at varying times. Are you able to
1 confirm that the book throughout this period was maintained in
2 the same way as you have described so far?
3 A. That is correct.
4 Q. If you could now turn to 19th June 1992, that page is written in
5 Cyrillic script. Can you see that?
6 A. I can.
7 Q. Would that have been written by Zoran Cvijic in Cyrillic?
8 A. Yes, Zoran Cvijic wrote it.
9 Q. The signature of you also in Cyrillic, would that have also been
10 written by Zoran Cvijic?
11 A. Yes, yes, Zoran Cvijic wrote it.
12 Q. You have told us that the pages on this book are prepared before
13 the duty happens, is that right?
14 A. Yes, that is right.
15 Q. What would happen if one of the policemen did not turn up for
16 his duty and, therefore, failed to attend? Would this book have
17 been amended in any way?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Can you tell us ----
20 A. The change would be noted in this timetable.
21 Q. If one of the policemen failed to attend and someone else took
22 over his duty, would that have been recorded then in some form?
23 A. Yes, the name of the person who did not come would be crossed
24 over and the presence of the other person would be recorded,
25 because in addition to these assignments there is a place where
26 you have to record the absentees, those on holiday, on sick
27 leave, etc. So if he was not on duty, then his name would
28 figure somewhere else in this timetable.
1 Q. If you could turn to the page of 13th July 1992, do you see that
2 page, 13th July 1992?
3 A. I do. It is a Tuesday.
4 Q. In the bottom left-hand corner we can see -- 13th July 1992,
5 13th July 1992 ----
6 A. 13th? Yes, I see it.
7 Q. In the bottom left-hand corner can you see the figure "7" and
8 "Brdar Miroslav"?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Can you see the figure "8" and "Cvijic Miroslav"?
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Can you see the figure "9" and "Tadic Dusko"?
13 A. I can.
14 Q. Why would those names against those numbers appear down in the
15 bottom left-hand corner rather than on any other part of the
17 A. Because they were off duty on that day.
18 Q. Would that be recorded by a column headed "slobodni" meaning
20 A. Yes, you can see "S-L-O", "Slo", indicated here, just the first
21 three letters. That is the column for "slobodni", "free".
22 Q. Are you confident that these records have been properly
23 maintained at Prijedor police station to reflect the shifts
24 worked by the policemen?
25 A. Yes, I am confident because there are other records in addition
26 to this one.
27 Q. Yes, I will look at some other records in a moment with you, but
28 it is the accuracy of this book that I would like you to comment
1 upon, whether you believe it is accurate or not.
2 A. Yes, I do believe it to be accurate.
3 Q. I would like to now turn to 2nd August 1992. Again, as with
4 other pages, is that a page written on your behalf by Zoran
5 Cvijic ----
6 A. Yes, it is.
7 Q. --- and in the right-hand corner signed on your behalf by Zoran
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Again was this like the other pages, a record compiled under
11 your authority?
12 A. It is.
13 Q. Again, does that page show on 2nd August 1992 that Tadic Dusko
14 was free on that date?
15 A. Yes, under the number 18.
16 Q. Thank you. If we turn now to 3rd August 1992, again was this a
17 page compiled in a similar way on your behalf by Zoran Cvijic?
18 A. Yes, only in this case he wrote in Latin script.
19 Q. Yes. Looking at this book, are you able to confirm that the
20 record for Dusko Tadic working at checkpoint Orlovci begins on
21 16th June 1992 and ends on 2nd August 1992?
22 A. Yes, that is correct.
23 Q. I would now like you to look at some more documents. The
24 document I want placed before you is headed "D63A". Do you
25 recognise this document?
26 A. I do. It is an order list.
27 Q. Can you tell us where this document comes from?
28 A. This is from the official records of the police station for
1 traffic security which is kept as a document of permanent value.
2 Q. Can you confirm again that the page we are looking at is an
3 extract of the pages for June 1992?
4 A. Yes, that is so.
5 Q. And that it was given to the Defence on the condition that the
6 second names of the people on that page were overwritten?
7 A. Yes, under those conditions it was given.
8 Q. I would like you now to look at the entry for Dusko Tadic at
9 No. 45. Can you see that?
10 A. I can.
11 Q. Can you tell us who would have written on this page of the
13 A. This was written by Cvijic Zoran.
14 Q. Can you tell us what exactly is the job or position of Zoran
15 Cvijic? We have crashed.
16 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I will repeat my last question again as we
17 have linked up again.
18 Q. Mr. Prpos, I asked you what position or job Zoran Cvijic had at
19 the police station. Can you tell us, please?
20 A. At that time he was policeman for materiel and technical means
21 and for keeping of records in the police station.
22 Q. Did he work under your authority alone or under the authorities
23 of any of the other Commanders?
24 A. He was exclusively under my authority.
25 Q. Did he work in the same office as you or in a different room?
26 A. He had another office.
27 Q. How close to your office was that office?
28 A. It was right next to mine.
1 Q. I would like you now to ----
2 A. It was next to mine.
3 Q. Thank you. I would like you now to look at 16th June 1992
4 column. Can you confirm that that is the first working day
5 recorded for Dusko Tadic at Prijedor police station?
6 A. It is. There is an indication KS-700, from 7 to 15 hours, eight
7 hours, the number of the order, traffic control and the time
8 spent on duty is indicated.
9 Q. Can you tell us what KS-700 stands for?
10 A. "KS" is control of traffic, an indication of the type of duty,
11 and "700" is the number indicated -- indicating the type of
13 Q. So what would "700" indicate?
14 A. It indicated the number of the order for that type of duty, from
15 the timetable of services.
16 Q. Is that a form of work permit?
17 A. This is the final part of the task of a policeman. When he
18 finishes his duty, then he enters it into this table.
19 Q. Looking at 17th June, we see there the figures next to "KS" of
20 "716". Can you help us with the difference in the number
22 A. If you saw earlier on in the timetable, in addition to the
23 Orlovci checkpoint, there were others, so there is a whole
24 series from the new year until the end of the year for all types
25 of duties performed by the station and that is the difference in
26 this number, from 16th to 17th.
27 Q. So if we looked back at that first book, being the official duty
28 plan, D66A, and looked at 16th June, we would see that the shift
1 of checkpoint Orlovci from 700 hours to 1500 hours had "700"
2 against it; that "700" would also be written on this official
3 schedule, is that right?
4 A. Yes, that is right. It means that the schedule is linked to
5 this list.
6 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, where is the 700 on 66A?
7 MR. KAY: If your Honour turns to 16th June ----
8 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes.
9 MR. KAY: --- on the left-hand side of the page next to the
10 word "punkt" is the figure 700.
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK, it is off the page on our copy, maybe in
12 the copying. We can check it later.
13 MR. KAY: Yes. If I could just help the Court as part of the
14 exercise, on 17th June 1992 there is the figure 716. Is that on
15 your Honours' copies?
16 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: 716 is.
17 MR. KAY: Yes, and that then corresponds with the figure on 17th June
18 in the schedule.
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Judge Vohrah has a better copy. We will use
20 his copy.
21 MR. KAY: Right. [To the witness]: This schedule that we are
22 looking at for June 1992, Mr. Prpos, is it written after the
23 work has taken place on each day or before?
24 A. These records are filled after the duty has been completed.
25 Q. If a particular policeman had not appeared for duty on the time
26 or date that he was supposed to in the official duty plan, would
27 it then not be recorded in this sheet here?
28 A. No, these are the accurate data for the actual time spent on
2 Q. For instance, if on 17th June 1992 Dusko Tadic is in the book,
3 the duty book that we looked at first, as being scheduled to
4 work between the hours of 7 o'clock to 1500 hours, if he failed
5 to attend that shift, would the schedule we are now looking at
6 for 17th June then be blank as showing he did not work on that
7 day for those times?
8 A. Yes, if he had not worked on that day.
9 Q. How accurate is this schedule that we are looking for June 1992?
10 A. 100 per cent accurate.
11 Q. We see on this page that there are further days and hours
12 recorded as worked by Dusko Tadic, but those hours vary. If you
13 look at 18th June we see the figure "10". Do you see that?
14 A. Yes, that is the total number of hours that Dusko Tadic spent on
15 duty on that day.
16 Q. If we look at the 20 ----
17 A. From 21 to ----
18 Q. 7.
19 A. 7.
20 Q. If we look at 20th June, we see 15 to 21 over the figure 6. Can
21 you see that?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. Was there any reason why the shift time was shorter on that day
24 of 20th June than it had been for the previous two days of 18th
25 and 19th June?
26 A. Yes, the only reason was that night began and the checkpoint is
27 far removed from the station and it needed time for the
28 policemen to get there. So the night-shifts were longer and the
1 day-shifts were shorter, and this intermediate shift was even
3 Q. If we look at the next page which is for July 1992 -- can you
4 have D64A put in front of you?
5 A. I do not have that document in front of me. Would you please
6 repeat the question?
7 Q. Can you see the page of the book for July 1992?
8 A. I need it for July and this is June.
9 Q. The document we are producing now, your Honour, is D64A.
10 [To the witness]: Is that document before you now
11 headed "July '92"?
12 A. Yes, I have it now.
13 Q. Again, is that a list of names including the name of Dusko
15 A. Yes, that is correct.
16 Q. Again, was this a document that would have been written by Zoran
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. Would it have been written under your authority?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Looking at this document, we again see the names blanked out.
22 Can you confirm that that was again one of the conditions upon
23 which the Defence were able to receive this document?
24 A. Yes, that is correct. That was required as a precondition, for
25 the other names, the names of the other policemen, to be blanked
27 Q. This page that we are looking at, does it come from a book?
28 A. Yes, it is an excerpt from the schedule.
1 Q. Again, can you confirm that it is the schedule relating to the
2 traffic police for Prijedor?
3 A. Yes, I can.
4 Q. Looking at this page, we can see that again the letters "KS"
5 appear above the hours noted. Can you see that?
6 A. Yes, I can.
7 Q. Is there any reason why we do not have any linking number here
8 which would correspond to the numbers within the official duty
9 plan, the first book we looked at?
10 A. That is an error, an omission on the part of Cvijic who filled
11 in this document, Zoran Cvijic.
12 Q. Again, could you comment upon the accuracy of this document
13 relating to the records of the hours of duty for Dusko Tadic?
14 A. These records are accurate.
15 Q. I would like you now to look at another document which is D65A.
16 Can you see this document headed "August '92"?
17 A. Yes, I can.
18 Q. Can you tell us what this document comes from?
19 A. This is an excerpt from the schedule of the traffic police.
20 Q. Again, is it a document that was compiled by Zoran Cvijic?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Would that have been under your authority?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Can you tell us up to what date it shows Dusko Tadic worked for
25 the traffic police at Prijedor?
26 A. According to this copy, as far as I can see, it is 3rd August
27 from 7 to 19 hours, a total of 12 hours traffic control.
28 Q. At the point of 3rd August, can you confirm that it shows that
1 Dusko Tadic carried out no further duties for the traffic
3 A. Yes.
4 Q. When we were looking in the book for the official duty plan,
5 that contained the duties of checkpoint Orlovci. If Dusko Tadic
6 had been working for two days at a security point on the bridge
7 over the River Sana, would that have been in the first book we
8 looked at?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. We have got him recorded as working here on this schedule, but
11 in the book that we looked at which showed the shifts for
12 checkpoint Orlovci, would that have been within that book if he
13 had been at a security point on the River Sana on the bridge?
14 A. Yes, it would.
15 Q. Looking at this document here, on the right-hand side there is a
16 "remarks" column. Can you see that?
17 A. Yes, I can, but the copy is a very poor one.
18 Q. Are you able to tell us, so far as you can, what is written in
19 the "remarks" column against Dusko Tadic's name?
20 A. If we look at it from the bottom, it is the third blank from the
21 bottom, that on 5th August '92 he was transferred to somewhere
22 else, signed by me, and it was written by Cvijic Zoran.
23 Q. Would that be accurate as a note relating to the ending of Dusko
24 Tadic's duties within the traffic police?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Do you know if Dusko Tadic after he finished working for the
27 traffic police at Prijedor was then transferred to another
28 division of the Prijedor police?
1 A. I do not know and I did not enquire because I had other business
2 to attend to.
3 Q. What I would like you to do now is to look at another document.
4 These are documents that have not been exhibited yet, your
5 Honour, but it is one that has been handed to the Prosecution
6 labelled A1.
7 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is this a document that you wish to offer once
8 it has been identified?
9 MR. KAY: Yes, your Honour.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. That will be what number?
11 MR. BOS: 74.
12 MR. KAY: Can you see this document which we have called here A1,
13 Mr. Prpos?
14 A. I can.
15 Q. Is it a document that is headed "August '92"?
16 A. Yes, I see that.
17 Q. Do you recognise this document as being a copy of another
19 A. I know it is a schedule, but it does not belong to the station
20 for traffic security.
21 Q. Can you tell us for which station it belongs?
22 A. I could not, I am afraid, not with certainty. It probably
23 belongs to one of those he was transferred to.
24 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I will not take this matter any further then
25 with this particular witness. (To the witness): Thank you very
26 much for that, Mr. Prpos, if that document can now be taken away
27 from in front of you? If another document can be placed in
28 front of you labelled C1, which I tender before the Court, your
1 Honour, as I think it is D75. Can you see this document
2 labelled C1, Mr. Prpos?
3 A. I can.
4 Q. Can you tell us what it is headed?
5 A. In the heading it is stated: "The Reserve Station of Police,
6 list of members of the Reserve Police Force in July '92,
8 Q. July or June 1992?
9 A. June 1992.
10 Q. Is your signature on this document?
11 A. No.
12 Q. Is it a document that has your name on it?
13 A. Yes, in the signature, Commander of the police, Prpos Djuro,
14 signature and stamp.
15 Q. Can you tell us what this document, C1, shows?
16 A. It is a list of members of the reserve police force who received
17 a salary on the basis of this list. You can see the sum and the
18 signature of the worker or policeman in question, the number,
19 the time when he was engaged, the amount in dinars and his
21 Q. If you could look at the page behind it, does it show the same
23 A. Yes, only this is in a frame, but these are the same data and
24 this is my original signature.
25 Q. If you would look at the page behind that, page 3, does it show
26 the same information there?
27 A. Yes, only this is a list from the accounting service.
28 Q. Do you recognise this document as coming from Prijedor police
2 A. This document belongs to the accounting or finance department,
3 because you see on the basis of these numbers that there are
4 many policemen, and this is a record by the accountancy
5 department of those receiving a salary.
6 Q. Is it a document, however, that comes from Prijedor police
7 station? Is this document held there?
8 A. This document -- the number is in the heading -- is kept in the
9 accountancy department of the station for public security in
10 Prijedor, and the previous two are in the police station.
11 Q. Are you aware if these three documents were given to the Defence
12 at Prijedor police station in your presence?
13 A. I am not aware of that, because when these documents were given
14 I was no longer in the station for traffic security. I now hold
15 a different post and have different duties.
16 Q. However, you recognise that third page as coming from the
17 accounts department, is that right?
18 A. Yes, I assume on the basis of the numbers, the orderly numbers,
19 the last number is 150 because I know that we did not have so
20 many policemen in our station.
21 MR. KAY: Your Honour, I tender this now to the Court as the next
22 Defence Exhibit. I think some numbering has gone awry actually
23 because I remember that at the end of Friday we had a video
24 photo taken of the marked photograph by the witness of that
25 date, and that would have been D74.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I recall that I had asked counsel to reach an
27 agreement, put a mark on it.
28 MR. KAY: Yes.
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I did not know that it was going to be
2 introduced as another Exhibit. If it was given another number,
3 I do not know, Mr. Bos, whether you would have known that?
4 MR. BOS: It has not been given a number.
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It was not given a number. Why do we not just
6 make that 76 since it has not been given a number and that will
7 be the photo with the marking by Witness B, was it?
8 MR. KAY: Yes, your Honour.
9 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: So there is no objection to Defence 76.
10 I gather there was an agreement made. That was Witness B who
11 identified his sentry post? No objection?
12 MR. NIEMANN: There is no objection, your Honour.
13 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK, Defence 76, that will be admitted. 74 has
14 been marked for identification purposes but not offered. 75 now
15 you wish to offer. Is there any objection to Defence 75? This
16 is, what, the last one that this witness was talking about?
17 MISS HOLLIS: Yes, your Honour. At this time we are not satisfied
18 this witness has authenticated this document. Perhaps we could
19 in our cross-examination, if Defence does not, we could ask some
20 additional questions, so perhaps we could withhold our decision
21 whether to object or not object at this time?
22 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. It is a several page document. How many
23 pages is it, three?
24 MR. KAY: It is three pages.
25 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It is the last page that really presented us a
27 MR. KAY: It is the last page.
28 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Let us hold off and, if you want to, see what
1 can be developed on cross-examination, or at this point, I do
2 not know that this witness is able to testify as to where this
3 document comes from except his belief that it would come from
4 the accounting because of the orderly fashion ----
5 MR. KAY: Yes.
6 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: --- like all accountants and because of the
7 number, 150. So there may be a foundation problem with the last
8 page, but the first two pages ----
9 MR. KAY: The first two pages should go in, your Honour.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: What was problem with the first page?
11 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, my understanding of the testimony so
12 far ----
13 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Let us ask. Mr. Prpos, would you please take
14 off your earphones? Thank you.
15 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, my understanding of the testimony so far
16 is that this witness was not present when these documents were
17 provided to the Defence. This witness did not sign the first
18 two pages even though his name is signed on those pages. There
19 is no indication he prepared these documents. There is no
20 indication these documents were in his keeping. So, I think at
21 this point in time they have not laid the foundation to
22 authenticate these documents through this witness.
23 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay?
24 MR. KAY: They form the usual category of almost business records of
25 which he is able to support the authenticity because they are
26 documents that arise in the course of the employment of the
27 particular person, the accused, which bear his name and he is
28 able to authenticate them in that form as being that category of
1 document that arises from the nature of employment of the person
2 who has his name on it.
3 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We are now down to a business record exception
4 to hearsay and I do not know how it would be done in your
5 system, but you might need to have the custodian of the record
6 to come and testify that (a) this is a record; that it was kept
7 either by him or under his direction; that it was kept in the
8 normal course of business. That is, kind of, my understanding.
9 I do not know what it would be in my fellow Judges'
10 jurisdiction. We do not even have a business record exception.
11 We do not have a hearsay rule either. It is really, though, a
12 question of foundation and authenticity. I do not know.
13 MR. KAY: May I say these are typed documents with a stamp on them
14 and a signature.
15 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: They look good.
16 MR. KAY: Yes. I am surprised at the objection really.
17 (The learned Judges conferred).
18 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: We will suspend ruling on this offer of Defence
19 75 at the present time. We will give you an opportunity to
20 cross-examine and perhaps you will be able to better -- you have
21 articulated, but perhaps the Judges will understand -- I will
22 understand better the basis for your objection. So we will
23 reserve ruling on Defence 75 at this time.
24 MR. KAY: Your Honour, we have copies here for you which I think will
25 make it rather clearer to see what we are looking at. If
26 eventually you reject the material, you can reject these, but
27 I think it will make it easier.
28 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Sure. At the present time, though, let us move
1 forward and let us see whether we are going to admit them. So
2 I will reserve ruling on 75 at the present time.
3 MR. KAY: Right.
4 Q. Can I turn you back to the first page of document ----
5 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Marro, would you ask Mr. Prpos to put his
6 earphones on, please? Mr. Kay, you may continue.
7 MR. KAY: Thank you, your Honour.
8 Q. Can I put you back to that first document labelled "C1" again,
9 Mr. Prpos?
10 A. I see it.
11 Q. Is that document headed amongst its heading the words "June
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. Can you tell us how this document comes to be compiled?
15 A. This document was compiled in the militia station for traffic
16 security on the basis of records of work of policemen during a
17 particular month, that is, throughout the month of July.
18 Q. Does this document contain the name of Dusko Tadic?
19 A. Yes, under No. 12.
20 Q. Who would have filled in this record?
21 A. The typist who typed this out, but Zoran Cvijic is responsible.
22 Q. You referred to there being a signature on this document in that
23 line of 12. Whose signature would that be?
24 A. This is most probably the signature of Dusko Tadic that he
25 received this amount of money.
26 Q. When would this document be presented to the policeman for
28 A. When this amount of money is paid out to the said person. This
1 is proof of having received the money.
2 Q. The money that has been paid to the policemen, who calculates
3 that sum?
4 A. This is calculated by the person who works in the accountancy
5 department of the public security station ----
6 Q. If we look ----
7 A. --- and one can see that this was written out in writing.
8 Q. If we look at the headings of the columns of this document, can
9 you tell us what the headings are?
10 A. First, the number, then the surname and name and then "engaged
11 from, to", the number of days, the amount of dinars and then
13 Q. When would it say that Dusko Tadic was engaged from and to?
14 A. You can see it there, from 16th until 30th June.
15 Q. What does it say under the number of days?
16 A. The total number of days.
17 Q. How many is that recorded as being?
18 A. It says 13.
19 Q. Under whose authority is this document compiled by Zoran Cvijic?
20 A. Under my authority, but then there is also the records that
21 existed and also the schedule.
22 Q. So the documents we have previously looked at, being the
23 official duty plan and the schedule of hours worked, are the
24 documents that are used to calculate the wages?
25 A. Yes, those are the documents used.
26 Q. Looking at this page here it has your name on it, is that right?
27 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Where is that, Mr. Kay?
28 MR. KAY: The first part, your Honour.
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, typewritten.
2 MR. KAY: Whose signature is that through your name and the station
4 A. This is the signature of Dusan Jankovic, the Assistant Head of
5 Department for police affairs. I was probably away at the time
6 and it was necessary to pay salaries to policemen, so he signed
7 it in my name.
8 Q. Are you familiar with this kind of document? Have you seen it
9 before in Prijedor police station?
10 A. Yes, while I worked there.
11 Q. Is it compiled properly and as you would expect such a document
12 to be compiled?
13 A. In this specific case, it should be so, yes.
14 Q. I would like you now to look at the next page. Do you recognise
15 this copy document that is before you now?
16 A. Yes, I recognise it.
17 Q. What is this document?
18 A. This is also a list of the reserve members of the police force
19 on the basis of which salaries were paid to the policemen.
20 Q. Is it then the same kind of document as the one we have just
21 been looking at?
22 A. Yes, it is the same.
23 Q. Does it show at line 8 the name of Dusko Tadic?
24 A. Yes, Dusko Tadic under No. 8.
25 Q. Is there a signature in the right-hand column of the page?
26 A. Yes, there is a signature.
27 Q. Who would sign at that part of the document?
28 A. I could not tell. Basically, the person who took the amount
1 concerned. It did not have to be Dusko Tadic personally; one of
2 his colleagues could have picked it up for him.
3 Q. Does it show how much money he would have received during his
4 working period?
5 A. Yes, 9,300.
6 Q. In the bottom right-hand corner of the document is your name
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. That is Djuro Prpos. Is there a signature there?
10 A. Yes, this is my signature.
11 Q. Do you recognise this document as being a document that is part
12 of the usual police records at Prijedor police station?
13 A. Yes.
14 MR. KAY: Your Honour, in view of the answers relating to the first
15 two pages of this document, I would submit now that it is fully
16 indicated sufficiently for the Court in terms of authentication.
17 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Miss Hollis?
18 MISS HOLLIS: No objection to the first two pages, your Honour.
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. Defence 75, the first two pages, will be
21 MR. KAY: Thank you. Your Honour noting the time as being 4.00,
22 would that be an appropriate moment?
23 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes. We will stand in recess for 20 minutes.
24 (4.00 p.m.)
25 (The Court adjourned for a short time)
26 (4.20 p.m.)
27 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Marro, we are ready to proceed.
28 JUDGE VOHRAH: He is not!
1 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Kay, you may continue.
2 MR. KAY: Thank you, your Honour.
3 Q. Mr. Prpos, I would now like you to look at the third page of
4 that document that was marked C1. Do you have that document now
5 before you and is it headed with the figure "4" at the top of
6 the page?
7 A. Yes, I can see it.
8 Q. Is the name Tadic Dusko in the column at point 128?
9 A. Yes, it says Dusko Tadic under No. 128.
10 Q. Is there again a signature on that page at the same line of 128?
11 A. Yes, yes, there is a signature.
12 Q. Can you tell us then where this document comes from?
13 THE INTERPRETER: The English interpreter says the tone is
14 intermittent. I cannot interpret this.
15 MR. KAY: I do not know whether there has been interference or not.
16 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: See if Mr. Prpos can hear us? Mr. Prpos, can
17 you hear us? No.
18 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I always feel when we have this down time we
19 should be doing something, so perhaps we will. The Defence will
20 finish, you anticipate, on October 25th. The Prosecution wanted
21 one week recess. That will be granted. Then the Prosecution
22 had previously indicated that they will need about one week for
23 rebuttal. So we would then begin with rebuttal, what is that
24 week, the week of November 4th, or whatever that Monday is.
25 MISS FEATHERSTONE: Yes, Monday 4th.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: So if things go as they plan, then the Defence
27 will finish October 25th or thereabouts. Then we will stand in
28 recess for one week and then we will return and hear from the
1 Prosecution in rebuttal.
2 MR. NIEMANN: Thank you, your Honour.
3 MR. KAY: We seem to be on-line.
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Prpos, can you hear us? Very good. Thank
5 you. Mr. Kay, you may continue.
6 THE WITNESS: I can hear you.
7 MR. KAY: Mr. Prpos, if you could look at the third page then of that
8 document C1 which has the No. 4 at the top of the page, can you
9 see that?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Can you tell us where this document comes from?
12 A. This is the document from the accountancy department of the
13 public security station.
14 Q. Have you seen a document like this before?
15 A. Yes, when taking out salaries.
16 Q. Who prepares this document within the accountancy department?
17 THE INTERPRETER: It is intermittent again, the interpreter says,
18 I cannot hear it.
19 MR. KAY: Who prepares this document within the accountancy
21 A. It is prepared by the authorised worker who is in the
22 accountancy department.
23 Q. What information do they use to compile this document?
24 A. They use the previous list which comes from the police station.
25 Q. The signature in column 7, who would be supposed to sign at that
27 A. It should be signed by the worker, the person to whom the
28 mentioned amount pertains to, that is the salary, or somebody on
1 his behalf if he was authorised to do that.
2 Q. Is this document that is before you now compiled in the usual
3 way for such documents?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. Would the original page, in fact, have names on the rest of the
6 numbered points?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Has this document been given in a form to the Defence that has
9 been to take out the names of the other people who were on the
10 original page?
11 A. It would be known by the person who gave this, that is to say,
12 the worker from the accountancy department. I did not give this
14 Q. But have the other names on the page been taken out as a
15 condition of the Defence receiving this document?
16 MISS HOLLIS: Objection, your Honour. He has stated he was not
17 present when the document was given. He did not give the
18 document, so how does he know why it was taken out?
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It has been asked and answered. He has
20 repeated it again, he did not give the document so he does not
22 MR. KAY: I did wonder whether there has been a translation problem
23 or some other difficulty in receiving this question, your
24 Honour, because I am not asking about where it came from, but
25 the fact that the other names have been taken off the page.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK.
27 MR. KAY [To the witness]: Does this form contain the period within
28 which the police officer would have worked at Prijedor police
1 station for the month of August?
2 A. Yes, in this specific case it is from the 1st to 31st August in
3 the case of Dusko Tadic and the number of days too.
4 Q. Would that number of days be 26?
5 A. For the person who worked, yes, if the person worked for that
6 long, so this paper gives the number of days.
7 MR. KAY: Your Honour, at this stage I renew my application for the
8 document to be exhibited on the basis that there has been
9 sufficient authenticity.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Miss Hollis?
11 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, we believe that our objections will go to
12 the weight of this document. We do not object based on
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Yes. We were going to admit it because it
15 really goes to the weight. We have relaxed rules and I would
16 like to let it in, to get as much as we possibly can in terms of
17 relevant facts, and it appears to be relevant, that is for sure.
18 MR. KAY: Your Honour, there are copies here for the Court.
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Is this going to be 77, is it? It originally
20 was a part of 75, but we will make it a new exhibit, I guess.
21 MR. KAY: D77, your Honour.
22 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK, good. D77 will be admitted.
23 MR. KAY (To the witness): That is all I ask about this particular
24 document. Thank you, Mr. Prpos. What I would like to ask you
25 about now is the control you, as the Commander of the traffic
26 police, exercised over the policemen who worked underneath you.
27 Did you make any checks upon your policemen at their various
28 points of duty?
1 A. Yes, I did that on a daily basis.
2 Q. We have been looking in the books and in the station register at
3 the hours of duty for Dusko Tadic. Did you have any complaint
4 against him as a police officer that he missed his duty or was
5 absent from his post?
6 A. While I carried out the control and while I was in the police
7 station, I had no objections regarding his performance.
8 Q. If one of your police officers turned up for his duty drunk,
9 would you have tolerated that?
10 A. I would not.
11 Q. What was the routine of the police officers at checkpoint
12 Orlovci for reporting for their duty?
13 A. As a rule, they go on duty from the police station itself but,
14 in view of the circumstances at the time, people went directly
15 to their post. So that in view of the distance of the
16 checkpoint, the policemen went there on their own and there was
17 no regular transportation, but during their shifts I would come
18 and control their work.
19 Q. Do you know if there was a car available for the policemen at
20 checkpoint Orlovci to be taken to their checkpoint to commence
21 their duty?
22 A. It depended on circumstances. Sometimes there was a vehicle
23 available to take the shift there and bring them back, but very
24 often there was no such vehicle available, so they had to get
25 there on their own one way or another.
26 Q. Would the police officers report to the police station before
27 starting their duty so that they were recorded as having been
28 present for their shift?
1 A. If they were going to their shift from the station or if there
2 was a vehicle available, yes, but if there was no possibility
3 for transporting them there, they would go there directly. But
4 I would check their presence on a daily basis to make sure that
5 they were coming on time, and the leader of the shift had to
6 prepare a report saying who was there, whether anyone was
7 absent, and there is a report to cover each shift. Also, at the
8 checkpoint a record was kept on a daily basis.
9 MR. KAY: Thank you. I have no further questions, but wait there,
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Miss Hollis, cross-examination?
12 Cross-Examined by MISS HOLLIS
13 MISS HOLLIS: Thank you, your Honour.
14 Q. Witness, could you please tell us your day and month of birth?
15 A. May 1st 1952, in a place called Lamovita, the opstina of
17 Q. Are you known by any nicknames?
18 A. They call me "Duka".
19 Q. Could you tell us the address of your current residence?
20 A. Prijedor, Mese Selimovica Street, C2.
21 Q. How long have you lived there?
22 A. For -- I did not get the beginning of the question.
23 Q. How long have you lived at your current address?
24 A. I have been living there since ----
25 THE INTERPRETER: I am sorry. The interpreter did not get that, the
27 MISS HOLLIS: I am sorry, could you tell us again the year in which
28 you first moved to that address?
1 A. 1993, 1993.
2 Q. Do you know who lived at that address prior to your living
4 A. Yes, Mehmed Krajisnik, the former Commander who was my Commander
6 Q. Did that individual own the residence at that address?
7 A. He was not the owner. He was a tenant because the apartment
8 belongs to the Ministry of the Interior.
9 Q. Do you know who previously owned that apartment?
10 A. I do, Krajisnik Mehmed, as I just said.
11 Q. You indicated he was not the owner. Do you know who owned that
12 apartment prior to the Ministry of the Interior taking it over?
13 A. From the beginning, from the moment the building was erected, it
14 belonged to the Ministry of the Interior.
15 Q. How is it that you were able to get an apartment in that
17 A. Upon the insistence of the former user, Krajisnik Mehmed,
18 I exchanged with ----
19 Q. In what section of Prijedor is your address located?
20 A. It is a settlement called Pecani.
21 Q. You indicated, I believe, that you have four children. Could
22 you tell us the dates of birth of your children?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Could you tell us?
25 A. I can.
26 Q. Please do so. What are the dates of birth of your children?
27 A. The youngest was born on December 17th, 1995; the next was born
28 on 14th June 1980 and the 24th June 1982, and the oldest is a
1 child from my second wife's first marriage. He is Danijel, born
2 in 1979.
3 Q. Thank you. What is your father's name?
4 A. Vaskrsija.
5 Q. Does he have any nicknames?
6 A. They call -- everybody calls him "Kiso".
7 Q. Prior to working for the police in the station in Prijedor, did
8 you work for the police in Ljubija?
9 A. I did from 1974 until 1979 and I lived there until 1984.
10 Q. You have indicated that you continued to work for the Prijedor
11 police department and that you are currently a Major and your
12 position is you are the Inspector for the co-ordination and
13 monitoring of traffic police, is that right?
14 A. Yes, it is correct.
15 Q. How long have you held that particular position?
16 A. This last position?
17 Q. Yes.
18 A. From 1994, in August.
19 Q. At this time who is your immediate superior?
20 A. Dragan Stojicic.
21 Q. What is that person's official duty title?
22 A. He is head of the department for police affairs.
23 Q. At this time who is the Chief of Police in Prijedor?
24 A. I do not know which police you have in mind.
25 Q. Let me ask you, for some time, at least, Simo Drljaca was the
26 Chief of Police in Prijedor. Does he continue in that position?
27 A. No.
28 Q. When he was in that position, what was the scope of his
1 authority? Was it for the entire opstina or only for the town
2 of Prijedor?
3 A. The Prijedor opstina.
4 Q. Who has taken his place? Who is now the Chief of Police for
5 opstina Prijedor?
6 A. I do not know. The post of deputy is being performed by Dusan
8 Q. The Chief of Police for opstina Prijedor, who does that person
9 report to?
10 A. You must ask him that.
11 Q. You do not know what the official reporting is from the Chief of
12 Police upward?
13 A. I know what my responsibility is, but I do not know as regards
14 the Chief of Police.
15 Q. Your immediate superior, does that superior report to the Chief
16 of Police for opstina Prijedor?
17 A. Most probably, yes.
18 Q. Can you tell us when it was that Simo Drljaca relinquished his
19 job as Chief of Police for opstina Prijedor?
20 A. I do not know exactly. I do not know the date but it was this
22 Q. Can you tell us when Simo Drljaca first took over as Chief of
23 Police for opstina Prijedor?
24 A. I do, it was on 29th April 1992.
25 Q. Did he hold that post continuously until very recently?
26 A. Mostly, more or less.
27 Q. What time periods did he not hold that post, if you know?
28 A. I do not know.
1 Q. In the spring of 1992, prior to the attacks on Hambarine and
2 Kozarac and other Muslims villages, prior to those attacks, what
3 was your position in the Prijedor police department?
4 A. I was before the war deputy Commander of the traffic police, and
5 the Commander was Fikret Kadiric until 29th April 1992. After
6 that, I became the Commander of the traffic police station.
7 Q. What was Fikret Kadiric's ethnic group, if you know?
8 A. I do know. He was Muslim.
9 Q. On 29th April 1992 and 30th April 1992, the Serbs took over the
10 positions of authority in opstina Prijedor, did they not?
11 A. Yes, that is so.
12 Q. When did you first learn that the Serbs were going to take that
14 A. On the eve of the 29th.
15 Q. So prior to that you had no idea at all that this was going to
17 A. No, I did not know.
18 Q. How did you learn of that on the night of 29th April?
19 A. I was called in.
20 Q. Who called you in?
21 A. I was called in by my colleagues.
22 Q. Which colleague was it who you called you in?
23 A. My colleagues at work.
24 Q. Tell us their names, please.
25 A. There were quite a number of them.
26 Q. That is fine. Tell us the ones you remember.
27 A. All my colleagues who were working in the station with me.
28 Q. Tell us the names of those you remember, please.
1 A. I cannot remember any one of them just now.
2 Q. You cannot remember any of them?
3 A. No.
4 Q. Not even one?
5 A. Not one.
6 Q. These were colleagues you worked with daily?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. You had worked with these colleagues for years?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Until you were called in on the evening of 29th April you did
11 not know that this Serb takeover was planned?
12 A. I did not know because I never thought about it until the moment
13 when at a common meeting we learned that the Territorial Defence
14 of Bosnia and Herzegovina was preparing to block barracks
15 because we had been together with the other workers who were
17 Q. Who told you that that was going to happen?
18 A. An official telegram arrived at the meeting and present was also
19 the former head of department of the public security station,
20 Hasan, the Commander, Fikret Kadiric, and representatives of
21 parties, Mirzo Mujadzic and Simo Miskovic.
22 Q. Who else was present at this meeting?
23 A. For the moment I can just remember them and, of course, the
24 other workers employed in the public security station.
25 Q. So you cannot remember your other colleagues who were present at
26 this meeting?
27 A. Most of them were there, both Muslims and Serbs.
28 Q. But you cannot remember the names of any of them?
1 A. No, I cannot.
2 Q. Is it not true, however, that a secret Serb police force had
3 been created months before this event?
4 A. I am not aware of it.
5 Q. Is it not true that it was this secretly created Serb police
6 force that was ready and took over on 29th and 30th April in
7 opstina Prijedor?
8 A. Your question is not clear to me.
9 Q. Is it not true that it was this secret Serb police force that
10 was ready and in place and took over power on 29th and 30th
11 April 1992?
12 A. I told you that I did not know that there was any secret police
13 force until the eve of 29th.
14 Q. Prior to this takeover on 29th and 30th April 1992, you had
15 frequent meetings with members of the JNA that were in Prijedor,
16 did you not?
17 A. I did not.
18 Q. You did not meet with them frequently in your office at the
19 police station?
20 A. No.
21 Q. Do you know a man by the name -- I am sorry, sir. Please go
23 A. Except for contacts that we had at a joint checkpoint which
24 existed in Kozarac long before the war formed upon orders of the
25 former Ministry of Internal Affairs headed by the Minister,
26 Alija Deljimustovic(?). At that checkpoint, members of the
27 military police were working. Those were the only contacts
28 between the civil and military police that I was aware of.
1 Q. When was that joint checkpoint created in Kozarac?
2 A. Long before the actual events. After the events in the Republic
3 of Croatia.
4 Q. Can you tell us what month and year it was created?
5 A. I cannot remember exactly, but before the war there was this
6 checkpoint in Kozarac while Fikret Kadiric was still the
8 Q. How long did that joint checkpoint continue to exist in Kozarac?
9 A. It existed until the events that took place in Kozarac.
10 Q. When was that?
11 A. It was in May. I do not recollect exactly the date, but it was
12 in May 1992.
13 Q. When you say "until the events that took place in Kozarac", do
14 you mean until the attack on Kozarac?
15 A. I do not know what attack you are referring to.
16 Q. You are not aware of any attack that occurred on Kozarac in May
17 of 1992?
18 A. Yes, but this came after events when a soldier was killed at
19 Jakupovici on the road to Banja Luka.
20 Q. So when you say that this joint checkpoint existed until the
21 events that took place in Kozarac, you are talking about the
22 attack on Kozarac, is that correct?
23 A. No.
24 Q. What events are you talking about then?
25 A. The events after the killing of a soldier on the road that
26 I mentioned.
27 Q. What events? What do you mean by "events"?
28 A. When the soldier was killed by Muslim extremists.
1 Q. What action did the Serbs take after a soldier was killed? What
2 did they do in Kozarac?
3 A. I do not know.
4 Q. You do not know?
5 A. I was not au courant. I was responsible for the activities
6 under my responsibility and not for military affairs.
7 Q. There were no civilian police at the joint checkpoint at
9 A. Yes, there were police from the traffic police station and the
10 military police ----
11 Q. So those police from the traffic ----
12 A. --- they were.
13 Q. Those police from the traffic police station would have fallen
14 under your jurisdiction, would they not?
15 A. My jurisdiction and of Fikret Kadiric who was working at the
16 time. I was his deputy at the time.
17 Q. Did you know a man by the name of Zoran Karlica?
18 A. No.
19 Q. So, Zoran Karlica never visited your office in the spring of
20 1992 in Prijedor?
21 A. No.
22 Q. I believe you indicated that after the Serb takeover of Prijedor
23 you became the Commander of the traffic police, is that correct?
24 A. Yes, that is correct.
25 Q. Who promoted you to that position?
26 A. The chief of the station.
27 Q. Who was that?
28 A. Simo Drljaca.
1 Q. Did he personally tell you ----
2 A. I just took over.
3 Q. Did he personally tell you that ----
4 A. I just took over ----
5 Q. Did he personally tell you that you had been promoted to the
6 Commander of the traffic police?
7 A. Not personally. I gave the documents later. I just continued
8 the duties I had performed as a deputy and I took over as
9 Commander until I was appointed when by a decision of the
10 Ministry of the Interior of the Republic of Srpska I was
11 appointed to this post, but I was acting Commander until then.
12 Q. Who told you that you were acting Commander?
13 A. Simo Drljaca.
14 Q. When did he tell you that?
15 A. After the takeover of authority.
16 Q. That would be the next day after the takeover?
17 A. It was implied. I just continued the work I had been doing
19 Q. This would have been the next day after the takeover that Simo
20 Drljaca told you you were the acting Commander, is that correct?
21 A. One may put it that way.
22 Q. How long did you hold that position? I think we may have lost
24 Witness, I will repeat the question that I had asked.
25 How long did you hold the position of Commander of traffic
27 A. Until 1994.
28 Q. Where was your office located, in what building, in Prijedor?
1 A. The headquarters of the station.
2 Q. Is that a building sometimes people refer to as the SUP
4 A. Yes, that is right.
5 Q. Have you ever been interviewed by any journalist, either Serb
6 journalist or non-Serb journalist?
7 A. No ----
8 Q. Have you ever given any ----
9 A. --- not as far as I can remember.
10 Q. Have you ever given any statements for any newspaper, magazine,
11 television programme or radio programme?
12 A. You mean the overall preceding period?
13 Q. Yes.
14 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter cannot hear him.
15 MISS HOLLIS: I am sorry. We could not hear that answer. Would you
16 repeat the answer, please?
17 A. There were professional statements in the domain of traffic
18 exclusively local radio and television.
19 Q. Did you make these statements before the conflict or after the
21 A. Before the conflict.
22 Q. Have you watched any of this trial on television?
23 A. Well, every now and then because time permitting really.
24 Q. Which witnesses have you watched testify?
25 A. Not a single one.
26 Q. When you watched ----
27 A. I watched -- I did watch the witnesses of the Prosecution, yes.
28 Q. Do you remember the names of any of those witnesses whose
1 testimony you watched on television?
2 A. I think I only remember a Mirsad Mujadzic.
3 Q. How often did you watch these proceedings on television?
4 A. Seldom, seldom, because I worked, so I could not follow it all
5 the time.
6 Q. Where would you be when you would watch this trial on
7 television? Would you be at home? Would you be at the police
8 station? Where would you be?
9 A. At home, at home when I get back home for work.
10 Q. Has anyone ever told you not to watch this trial on television?
11 A. Yes, I was told not to watch it when I found out that I would be
12 a witness.
13 Q. Sir, when was that? When were you told?
14 A. I cannot remember the date exactly. I remember when Mr. Kay was
15 here, then I was told about that.
16 Q. Do you remember what month that was?
17 A. Two or three months ago.
18 Q. In the spring and summer of 1992, what type of vehicles did the
19 police use in opstina Prijedor?
20 A. They used vehicles with police plates and also civilian cars
21 depending on the actual duty involved. We, in the traffic
22 police, would use civilian vehicles when we were checking on
23 speed limits, for example.
24 Q. These civilian vehicles, would they have any particular types of
25 markings to identify them as police vehicles?
26 A. They were marked like any other police vehicle, that is, alarms
27 and it also said "Police". It was written "Police".
28 Q. What colour were these civilian vehicles?
1 A. Civilian vehicles, it depends, red, white, grey.
2 Q. The regular police vehicles, what colour were they?
3 A. Blue and white, blue and -- there was white colour on the back
4 and on the front, up front.
5 Q. What type of vehicles were they, what manufacture of vehicle?
6 A. In the traffic police it was primarily Golfs, a few Jugos,
7 Zastava 101 and the like.
8 Q. Before the attacks began on Muslims villages in May 1992, prior
9 to that time, how many traffic police officers were there in
10 opstina Prijedor?
11 A. Together with the Muslims there were about 30 all together.
12 Q. And after ----
13 A. Together with the leadership, I mean.
14 Q. So there would have been 30 total personnel in the traffic
15 section of the opstina Prijedor police?
16 A. No, this is just the active personnel. The reserve personnel
17 was much larger because it included Muslims too.
18 Q. How many of these reserve personnel were performing duties with
19 the traffic police prior to 22nd May 1992?
20 A. Until after the takeover, there were reserve policemen who
21 included Muslims but then after the takeover the Muslims left.
22 Q. Before the takeover, how many reserve police total would there
23 have been who were actually performing duty, that is, including
24 both Serbs and non-Serbs?
25 A. There were about 20 odd people altogether.
26 Q. After the Serb takeover at the end of April 1992, how many
27 Muslims continued to work in your section of the Prijedor
1 A. None of them remained. They all withdrew to Kozarac and
2 Ljubija. They joined their own stations there and they worked
3 there. There were certain attempts to persuade some of them to
4 work there, but they did not agree to that because they would
5 have to sign a solemn declaration.
6 Q. What is this solemn declaration they would have to sign?
7 A. That they accept the laws of Republika Srpska and that they
8 would enforce them. It is the usual kind of declaration that is
9 made in police, like in any other police force.
10 Q. Did you sign such a declaration after the Serb takeover of
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Did all of the police officers who worked for you sign such a
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Did all the Reserve Police officers who worked for you, who came
17 to work for you in June, July and August 1992 also sign such a
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. During the months of June, July and August 1992 how many traffic
21 policemen worked for you in opstina Prijedor?
22 A. I cannot remember the exact number now, but depending on the
23 actual needs we drew on the reserve force of the police.
24 Q. Well, what would be an average ----
25 A. The number would change.
26 Q. What would be the lowest number that would have worked for you
27 during that period?
28 A. I cannot remember specifically what the number was, but the
1 number varied practically every day depending on the actual
2 needs involved, and then we would draw on the reserve force
3 because after the departure of the Muslims from the station it
4 was normal that this had to be filled up.
5 Q. Was it filled up to the same number you had before? Were there
6 more people working for you? Give us a general number, if you
8 A. Well, that number, about 50.
9 Q. This would include both active duty and reserve or just reserve?
10 A. The total number active duty and reserve.
11 Q. Can you ----
12 A. Because ----
13 Q. Please go ahead and finish.
14 A. Reserve Police officers had the same authority as regular police
15 officers after they were mobilized.
16 Q. Where were you assigning these police officers, in what
18 A. It was mainly checkpoints.
19 Q. Where were these checkpoints located?
20 A. Checkpoint Orlovci, Sana Raskovac, Sena Dolijna (?), etc.,
21 sometimes Gomjenica.
22 Q. Is the village of -- Mr. Prpos, can you hear me?
23 A. I can hear you.
24 Q. Is the village of Petrov Gaj located within opstina Prijedor?
25 A. Yes.
26 Q. Did you have any traffic police who came from Petrov Gaj?
27 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It looks like the picture is not working,
28 Mr. Prpos is in the same pose.
1 THE WITNESS: No.
2 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, do you wish to stop -- no, we have lost
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: How much longer do you think you have for cross
5 and redirect?
6 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, I would think another 30 to 45 minutes
7 perhaps. Your Honour, there is one thing I would ask, if we can
8 get the picture back up, I am going to ask you to direct to this
9 witness to provide the unredacted versions of the Defence
10 Exhibit that have been discussed here today. So, if we could
11 deal with that before we close this session.
12 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. Well, it appears that they are not getting
13 the sound anyway or the picture. If it looks like they are
14 getting it I will ask the witness to take his earphones off.
15 What is the request? He has already done it. I will ask him
17 Mr. Prpos, would you please take your earphones off?
18 Thank you. Yes, go ahead, Miss Hollis.
19 MISS HOLLIS: Thank you, your Honour. During the course of direct
20 examination the Defence referred to several documents and asked
21 this witness questions about them. All of those documents are
22 redacted to a greater or lesser degree. I believe those are
23 Defence Exhibits 63, 64, 65, 66, 75 and 77. We would ask that
24 you order this witness to produce the unredacted version of
25 those Exhibits for use both in cross-examination with this
26 witness and also for other possible cross-examination or
28 Your Honour, I suggest that the reason that we would
1 allowed these documents is, number one, they have been referred
2 to by the Defence and under completeness we would ask to review
3 the entire document. Secondly, the other names that appear on
4 that document would be relevant to us both to test the accuracy
5 and the completeness of these documents which this witness has
6 told us are very complete. In addition to that, they would be
7 relevant to determine what types of duties these other
8 individuals were purportedly performing who are named on these
9 documents. So we would ask that you order this witness to
10 produce them.
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Mr. Marro, we have asked Mr. Prpos to take off
12 his earphones and we want to assure there is no Serbo-Croatian
13 translation going on.
14 MR. MARRO: No problem, your Honour.
15 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: "No problem" means no, right? OK, thank you.
16 Mr. Kay, what is your response now regarding the request for
17 complete documents?
18 MR. KAY: This request is not without its problems. We have had to
19 extract these documents from Prijedor Police Station in the form
20 that we have been given. What concerns me is that this may be a
21 request that causes great difficulty for this trial and for this
22 particular witness. He has made himself available to
23 the -- well, he had made himself available to the Defence and I
24 see an empty chair -- in the circumstances in which we are able
25 to get these people to co-operate to the limited degree we can.
26 I believe this Court knows a great deal from the evidence it has
27 heard about the power of certain people in this particular
28 region. They are not in positions that are easy and requests
1 that are made that can put them into personal difficulty,
2 particularly if they cannot be fulfilled, may have consequences
3 for those witnesses.
4 I am not using this in a form of aggression but almost
5 like a intimidatory tactic against these individuals. What
6 concerns me is that there can be consequences that can cause a
7 witness and, indeed, this trial to have great problems. About
8 that I can say no more. I think the Court appreciates we have
9 obtained these documents and we have been into the police
10 station to get them. We have done our best.
11 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: What I hear as far as why the names were
12 excised, listening to Mr. Prpos, was he said those were not
13 relevant. The question becomes, well, who made the decision as
14 to relevancy? That is the problem. When they are turned over
15 to you and a decision is made by a person in power that, "This
16 is all I am going to give you", then that raises a problem just
17 in terms of our ability even to compel this individual to turn
18 over more. Certainly I imagine in any system, or at least in
19 any common law system, in terms of the completeness of a
20 document that is something that is recognised. What that means
21 is that one side should not be able to choose what it wants from
22 a document and put the document in and then not let the other
23 side see the entire document. I think that is a pretty
24 universal concept that would be recognised. Is that not true,
25 my fellow Judges?
26 So the notion of completeness is not foreign and the
27 rationale is simple. It is to be fair for both sides.
28 MR. KAY: We have not made the decision on relevance. We have not
1 told them to edit these documents. We were unable to see them
2 until they were provided to us in this form. We have not asked
3 for incomplete records to be put in this form before the Court.
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Let me confer with my fellow Judges and see if
5 they agree with me on my notion of completeness. Then of course
6 there is a problem with just the production, whether we have the
7 power even to do that. But there are questions I had about some
8 of these documents and some names that I would be interested
9 in. So it is going to affect how I might even look at these
11 (The Judges conferred).
12 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: My fellow Judges agree with my view on the
13 notion of completeness, that is that if you offer part of a
14 document then the other party can compel the entire document to
15 be offered. The reason is obvious whether we are in common law
16 or civil law I think. We want to have the complete document.
17 The real power is our ability to compel. Judge Vohrah has
18 suggested that there is no harm in asking the witness, directing
19 him even, to produce the entire document. If he tells me,
20 "Well, the powers that be made the decision that we would only
21 give this", there is not too much I can tell him, I think, in
22 terms of the power that this Tribunal has, unlike a national
24 MR. KAY: Yes, the Defence have no difficulty with the request. It
25 is just that I am making a point to the Court about this as I do
26 not want it reflected upon the Defence.
27 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I understand. I hope that the witness is still
28 there and I will ask that he return. Do you have anything else
1 to add, Miss Hollis, at this point?
2 MISS HOLLIS: Your Honour, we understood they were given these in
3 redacted form. That is why we ask you to make the request, the
4 order of this witness. We would note, however, that we have
5 been told that in fact at least one or more of the Defence team
6 have seen the unredacted documents even though they could not
7 copy them. But again that really is peripheral I think to the
8 problem here.
9 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. Have you seen the complete document?
10 MR. KAY: Yes, but I cannot say I have memorized it or anything like
12 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: It is Serbo-Croat and English.
13 MR. KAY: I insisted on seeing it so I knew what was being put before
14 my eyes.
15 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: The reasons that were given you for the
16 redaction were?
17 MR. KAY: It is a need-to-know basis as far as I am concerned.
18 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Pardon me?
19 MR. KAY: I was being treated on a need-to-know basis. I was being
20 given only what I was going to receive.
21 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: So did you ask for more and get only what you
23 MR. KAY: Yes, and I asked to make sure that I could see an
24 authentic -- well, I will not give evidence, but I asked to see
25 something so I knew where it came from.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I think it is appropriate since there was
27 mention of the fact that a member of the Defence team had seen
28 it. I do not think you are giving evidence out of sorts.
1 Let us talk with Mr. Prpos. Mr. Marro, would you ask
2 Mr. Prpos to put his earphones on, please. Mr. Prpos, this is
3 Judge McDonald talking. Mr. Prpos, regarding certain Exhibits
4 that you made reference to in your testimony, the Tribunal is
5 requesting that you produce the complete copies of these
6 Exhibits. The copies that we have been presented are only
7 partial, in that certain names and other information is
8 taken -- can you hear me still? Can you hear me?
9 THE WITNESS: I can hear you. I can hear you. I can hear you.
10 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Certain information is taken out of these
11 Exhibits. You referred to them when you said that information
12 had been blanked out. The Tribunal is requesting that you
13 produce these documents completely without the blanked out
14 portions, and they are Exhibits 63 -- these are Defence
15 Exhibits -- Defence Exhibit 63, 64, 65, 66, 75 and 77. Those
16 are the documents that you made reference to today during your
17 testimony. Are you able to produce those documents in their
18 complete form without the blanked out portions or with the
19 blanked out portions not being blanked out?
20 THE WITNESS: As far as I am concerned, because at present I am not
21 in the Traffic Security police station, so all of that would be
22 addressed to the present Commander of that station. So I do not
23 have the authority now to give anything from those records
24 because I am not authorised in that station now. These records
25 remain in the station regardless of who is the Commander.
26 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Who is the Commander again of the traffic
27 police now?
28 THE WITNESS: At present it is Mile Jankovic. I have testified on
1 the basis of what I know in relation to the documents that were
2 made while I was Commander of the police station.
3 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Miss Hollis, is there anything else? Mr. Kay?
4 Mile Jankovic I understand is the present Commander.
5 MISS HOLLIS: Yes, your Honour.
6 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: He is the person who would have custody of
7 these records?
8 MISS HOLLIS: Yes, your Honour.
9 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: I do not know how I could compel -- I was
10 looking at the witness list and I do not see him as a
11 witness for the Defence.
12 MR. KAY: He is not, your Honour. He declined.
13 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: So he is not a witness. What authority do
14 I have to compel?
15 MISS HOLLIS: What actual authority you have to compel even with this
16 witness I guess is a question, but I might suggest that you
17 request of this witness to pass your request on to Mr. Jankovic
18 and have a reply tomorrow.
19 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: OK. Mr. Prpos, would you ask Mr. Jankovic if
20 he will produce these documents in their complete form, the ones
21 I referred to by Defence Exhibit numbers, so that you may bring
22 them with you when you return tomorrow to complete your
24 THE WITNESS: I can try, but I cannot guarantee because this is
25 exclusively within his authority. But I believe that insight
26 can be made in a different way in terms of authenticating these
27 documents. I think the people who have been crossed out are not
28 all that important. These are simply the names of other
1 policemen who do not want to appear in this kind of case. There
2 are numbers and it is obvious that this is an excerpt in which
3 Dusko Tadic appears.
4 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: This is a trial and both sides want access to
5 the information. So, if you will pass on this request, please,
6 to Mr. Jankovic, and the request is that he give to you the
7 complete copies of those Exhibits that I referred to by number,
8 that is Defence Exhibits 63, 64, 65, 66, 75 and 77, so that you
9 may bring them with you tomorrow. You indicate to him that that
10 is a request that has been made by the Tribunal. Would you do
12 THE WITNESS: I shall tell him, but as far as the outcome is
13 concerned I cannot be the judge of that.
14 THE PRESIDING JUDGE: Thank you very much, Mr. Prpos. You are now
15 excused until tomorrow at 10 a.m. and we will resume the
16 testimony then. The Court is adjourned until 10 a.m.
17 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
18 (5.40 p.m.)
19 (The court adjourned until the following day).