1 Wednesday, 19 May 2010
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 2.24 p.m.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good everybody in
6 and around the courtroom. This is case IT-08-91-T, the Prosecutor versus
7 Mico Stanisic and Stojan Zupljanin.
8 JUDGE HALL: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
9 Good afternoon to everyone. May we have the appearances for the
10 day, please.
11 MS. KORNER: Good afternoon, Your Honours. Joanna Korner,
12 assisted by Crispian Smith, Case Manager, for the Prosecution.
13 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Good day, Your Honours. On behalf
14 of Mico Stanisic, Slobodan Cvijetic, Eugene O'Sullivan, and Ms. Ivana
16 MR. PANTELIC: Good afternoon, Your Honours. For Zupljanin
17 Defence, Igor Pantelic and Dragan Krgovic. Thank you.
18 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
19 Yes, Ms. Korner.
20 MS. KORNER: Before the witness comes in, can I just mention very
21 shortly two, maybe three, matters.
22 The first is this. We hadn't forgotten that last week
23 Judge Delvoie asked us for a list of witnesses up to the adjournment.
24 That will be with the Court and the Defence hopefully in fact tomorrow.
25 We're just refining the last few witnesses.
1 The second matter is this, and I think I've mentioned on one or
2 two occasions before, we will be filing a motion next week in respect of
3 the witnesses we wish to add to replace the adjudicated facts which were
4 not granted or reversed.
5 Your Honours, of necessity we have to explain why we say the
6 witnesses are necessary, refer to the adjudicated facts and to the
7 matters on the indictment, and we would ask for an extension of the word
8 limit in this case. Could we have an extension up to 5.000 words. I
9 don't think we'll need 5.000, but just to be safe.
10 JUDGE HARHOFF: Granted.
11 MS. KORNER: Thank you very much.
12 And the last matter is this, I don't want to delay today's
13 witness, because of the videolink, but I would like to invite
14 Your Honours to reconsider yesterday's ruling when he's finished. I
15 don't anticipate that he is going to take as long as the Defence said
16 from conversations, certainly, that I've had with Mr. Krgovic.
17 And I've had an opportunity now to read the cases that were
18 referred to -- to by Mr. O'Sullivan, and I would like, if I may, to ask
19 Your Honours, as I say, to reconsider the ruling in respect of yesterday.
20 But, as I say, that can wait.
21 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
22 [Trial Chamber confers]
23 [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]
24 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, it's about -- sorry. I didn't make it
25 clear obviously.
1 The ruling Your Honours made about the non-admittance of any of
2 the articles yesterday.
3 However, I forgot to mention that, Your Honours, we've had no
4 ruling on document which is tab 52, at the moment, on the list for
5 today's witness.
6 Can I say straight away, although we did file this some time ago
7 and I have reminded the legal officer about this, and indeed reminded him
8 against yesterday, I don't need to use it with this witness but it will
9 be used by the witness who is coming next week. Subject to Your Honours'
10 ruling, of course.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: 52 of today's witness?
12 MS. KORNER: Yes. Your Honours will see, it says there -- it
13 formed part of a motion which I'm not going to go into because we're in
14 open session.
15 JUDGE HARHOFF: Is it 65 ter number 2839?
16 MS. KORNER: It is.
17 JUDGE HARHOFF: [Microphone not activated]
18 [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]
19 JUDGE HALL: I see the Court Officer on the screen, and I need
20 her, first of all, to confirm that she can hear us in Sarajevo
21 THE REGISTRAR: [Via videolink] Good afternoon, Your Honours.
22 Yes, the connection is working ... and I can hear you.
23 JUDGE HALL: And I take it that the witness is there with you.
24 THE REGISTRAR: [Via videolink] The witness is not here in the
25 witness room because I was informed that there were procedural matters.
1 I will bring him.
2 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
3 [The witness entered court]
4 THE REGISTRAR: [Via videolink] Your Honours, the witness is
5 present in the courtroom -- in the videolink room.
6 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
7 Mr. Witness, can you hear me?
8 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can hear you.
9 JUDGE HALL: I would now invite the Court Officer to have you
10 make the solemn declaration.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare I will only
12 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
13 JUDGE HALL: Thank you, sir, you may resume your seat.
14 The declaration that you would have just made binds you as a
15 witness to testify truthfully under pain of -- of -- of the power that
16 the Tribunal has to deal with false testimony. I would begin by asking
17 to you state your name, please.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Branko Peric.
19 JUDGE HALL: And your date of birth is what?
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] January 10, 1954.
21 JUDGE HALL: And what is your profession?
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm a lawyer by profession.
23 JUDGE HALL: And what is your ethnicity, please?
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I'm a Serb.
25 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
1 You, as -- as may have been explained to you, as would have been
2 explained to you, you are, although not physically present in The Hague
3 are now sworn as a witness in the proceedings of the Tribunal and the
4 Tribunal is receiving your evidence by videolink. The -- you would have
5 given evidence previously before the Tribunal and/or in one of the
6 countries in the region.
7 Would you confirm that, please?
8 MS. KORNER: He's a judge --
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.
10 MS. KORNER: He's a judge at the State Court. He is not a --
11 he's never given evidence.
12 JUDGE HALL: Oh. Thank you, Ms. Korner.
13 The -- I would explain the procedure to you.
14 The -- and you would be aware of this, having regard to your own
15 profession, that the side calling - in this case, the Prosecution - would
16 begin by asking you questions. And, in terms were time, the amount of
17 time that has been allotted to them is two and a half hours in total.
18 After which the counsel for each of the accused would have an opportunity
19 to cross-examine you, and they have asked for a total of five hours
20 between themselves. After which there may be re-examination and the
21 Chamber may have some questions of you.
22 In order to expedite the record-keeping and the other ancillary
23 matters that support the way witnesses -- testimonies are led at the
24 Tribunal, the sittings do not ordinarily extend beyond an hour and a half
25 and indeed are a few minutes short of that. And so we would take a break
1 initially at the -- after about an hour and 20 minutes then, in 20
2 minutes we would resume, and then there is another session of similar
3 length, and we would adjourn for the day at 7.00 the -- local time, by
4 local time I mean the time in The Hague, and you are scheduled to
5 continue your testimony tomorrow morning at 9.00 in the -- again I'm
6 using local time.
7 Now not withstanding what I would have just said in terms of
8 regular and usual times of sittings and breaks, if, at any time, there is
9 a need for you to take a break for whatever reason, if you would indicate
10 to the Court Officer who is with you, and the Chamber will deal with --
11 will seek to accommodate you.
12 Do you have any questions before I invite counsel for the
13 Prosecution to begin?
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I understood.
15 JUDGE HALL: Yes, Ms. Korner.
16 WITNESS: BRANKO PERIC
17 [Witness testified through interpreter]
18 [Witness testified via videolink]
19 Examination by Ms. Korner:
20 Q. Judge Peric, good afternoon. Can we start, please, by --
21 A. Good afternoon.
22 Q. Can we start, please, by having up on the screen, please, the
23 biography that you kindly provided us, which is 10359.03, and it's at
24 tab 77 bis of the document binder.
25 Tab 77 bis for the Judge.
1 [Prosecution counsel confer]
2 MS. KORNER:
3 Q. Just so if we see your professional history, as you told the
4 Court, you were a lawyer. Then for our purposes the relevant time is
5 that you were a -- the public prosecutor in Teslic between May of 1992
6 and June of 1995. I think that made --
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Then do you become a journalist and then return to the law as a,
9 first of all, a member of the High Judicial and Prosecutorial Council in
10 Bosnia and Herzegovina. You then became a judge in the Bosnia
11 Herzegovina Court
12 four years president of the Bosnian High Judicial and
13 Prosecutorial Council; is that right?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And I think that council has the responsibility of selecting the
16 judges and prosecutors who are authorised to appear in the State Court of
17 Bosnia and Herzegovina in Sarajevo; is that right?
18 A. Yes, it is.
19 Q. Now, again briefly, can I deal -- sorry, before I do that.
20 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, I don't know whether you think this
21 something that's worth having exhibited. I've given the material parts
22 of it.
23 JUDGE HALL: Does it add to anything that's on the record? I
24 suppose for the sake of convenience it doesn't hurt to have it but ...
25 MS. KORNER: In that case, Your Honour, may it -- can it be
1 admitted and marked, please.
2 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked as an exhibit.
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P1361, Your Honours.
4 MS. KORNER:
5 Q. Next, as a matter of form, Judge Peric, I have to ask you about
6 your interviews. I think it's right that you were interviewed by the
7 Office of the Prosecutor, first of all, in December of 2001. Then again
8 in January of 2002, and finally made a short witness statement in
9 February of last year.
10 In respect of those interviews a statement --
11 A. That's correct.
12 Q. In respect of those interviews and the statement if you were
13 asked the same questions again, would your answers be the same?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And was what you told the Prosecutor then the truth?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. I just want briefly with you to run through the aspects of the
18 evidence you gave in those interviews because I do not, except with a few
19 exceptions, want to go through them with you again. You will, no doubt,
20 be happy to hear.
21 You dealt with the relationship between the Teslic Crisis Staff,
22 the Assembly, and the Crisis Staff of the Autonomous Region of Krajina.
23 You dealt with what you knew of Radoslav Brdjanin and the SDS leadership,
24 with work obligation, the operation of the judicial system, the
25 relationship between military and civilian courts, the destruction of
1 religious buildings, the role of the police. You had quite a lot to say
2 about the decision of the Municipal Assembly in Teslic that was passed --
3 the meeting of the 6th of July, 1992. You dealt with disarmament and the
4 charges of armed rebellion. You dealt with dismissal of non-Serbs, the
5 departure of non-Serbs from Teslic, the attacks on Stenjak and Rankovici,
6 and in detail, and I will cover some of that with you, the Mice.
7 Is that right?
8 MS. KORNER: Then, Your Honours, may I ask that the 92 ter
9 package, the proper one as -- as displayed on our last exhibit list may
10 be made an exhibit.
11 JUDGE HALL: I thought that Mr. Pantelic was rising to make an
13 Admitted and marked.
14 MS. KORNER: Thank you.
15 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibits P1361.01 to P1361.12, Your Honours.
16 MS. KORNER:
17 Q. Now, Judge, can we -- I'm going to ask you to look at some
18 further documents that you had an opportunity to look at some time ago.
19 But first can we clarify this. The Court has heard that on the 6th of
20 April 1992, the Teslic Assembly applied to become a part of the
21 Autonomous Region of Krajina. In fact said it did. Did the prosecutor's
22 office in Teslic then come under the Banja Luka authority or that -- or
23 did it remain with Doboj?
24 A. The prosecutor's office remained with Doboj and functioned as
25 basic prosecutor office in Teslic under the jurisdiction of the higher
1 office in Doboj. The same applied to the police.
2 Q. All right. Thank you. Now, can I ask you then next, please, to
3 have a look at a document, which is tab 7 in your binder.
4 MS. KORNER: And it's 0085 -- 65 ter 850.
5 Q. Now, this is a decision of the Executive Committee of the Teslic
6 municipality, which imposes a curfew, starting on the 5th of May, 1992,
7 and it's imposed between 2300 and 0500 hours.
8 Do you recall a curfew being enforced?
9 A. I think it was. Although there was another situation when curfew
10 was imposed, but I think that was in the period of Mices.
11 Q. The curfew, who enforced it?
12 A. The decision was as I can see reached by the Executive Committee
13 but I think it was enforced by the police. The police and I think it was
14 the department for National Defence at the time was in charge of handing
15 out passes for those people who were under work obligation or who had
16 some specific assignments.
17 Q. All right. I want to come onto your work obligation in a moment,
18 but if -- were people -- was anybody, sorry, "were people."
19 Was anyone given any kind of pass that would enable them to
20 ignore the curfew?
21 A. I think that some people did have passes, but I couldn't say
22 exactly who.
23 Q. All right. Then I won't press --
24 A. In this period --
25 Q. Sorry. I keep forgetting about that.
1 MS. KORNER: Then, Your Honours could this document which I don't
2 believe has been exhibited yet be admitted and marked.
3 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked.
4 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P1362, Your Honours.
5 MS. KORNER: Now, next, can we go, please, to document which has
6 already been exhibited as P1353.06.
7 Oh, tab 8. I'm so sorry. Tab 8. Thank you.
8 Q. This is a record of a Crisis Staff meeting that took place on the
9 6th of May, 1992. Now, you said in interview Mr. -- Judge Peric, that
10 you had attended one Crisis Staff meeting, you thought in May, and it had
11 taken place in the basement of the municipal building.
12 Are you able to say whether this was the one you attended? It
13 deals with, among other things, work obligation, and, we'll see, a couple
14 of other things.
15 A. No. It can't have been this meeting, because I believe it was on
16 the 25th of May that I assumed my position, and this was on the 6th of
18 Now, the meeting that you mean may have taken place toward the
19 end of May.
20 Q. All right. In -- can I ask you about one -- two aspects.
21 The first is that 1.6 of this meeting under the agenda, is --
22 it's 1.6 which is on the first page, says: "Introduce work obligation in
23 all businesses and institutions ..."
24 "And then all citizens are liable for work obligation if so
25 decided by the TO Staff Command."
1 Now as far as that work obligation was concerned, was this a
2 voluntary thing, or was it something that was effectively ordered?
3 A. I think it was an obligation. Documents were issued by the TO
4 Staff, so this was not a voluntary obligation.
5 Q. All right. And, by and large, who was made to do work
7 A. Mostly people who worked in manufacturing processes or who worked
8 for some institutions. There must have been some criteria that were
9 applied, but I cannot speak about the details.
10 Q. All right. Were -- was this work obligation, what sort of work
11 did it consist of?
12 A. I suppose that the people had to do the work that they used to do
13 in companies or government bodies.
14 Q. Yes. Well, that --
15 A. Or -- or they may have been assigned to do some other work. It
16 is possible that they were assigned to some other jobs that they used not
17 to do.
18 Q. Do you know if anybody was assigned to do jobs such as digging
19 trenches or the like, which might take them into the front line?
20 MR. KRGOVIC: [Interpretation] In which period, if I may ask? To
21 what time-period are you referring in your question?
22 MS. KORNER:
23 Q. Between April 1992 and the end of the year.
24 A. More certainly there was this type of work obligation in that
25 period. I was even able to see people in some collection centres, and I
1 heard that they were to go off for some work obligation. This work also
2 involved going to the line but where and how, I don't know.
3 However, this is only what I heard, so this is not first-hand
4 information. I saw at some locations that there were people -- people
5 had been taken there and waiting for some sort of schedule.
6 Q. Right. Now, you say you saw some people in some collection
7 centres. What sort of people? In other words, what nationality were
8 those people?
9 A. Those were citizens of Croat and Muslim ethnic affiliations.
10 Q. And do you know -- could you name the collection centres that
11 you're talking about?
12 A. One location was in the centre of town. It's the handball pitch
13 of the Proletar Club, and another was at Banja Lisica about 3 kilometres
14 from Teslic where there are tennis grounds.
15 Q. Next, could you turn to 1.8 of this meeting. And I think that's
16 still on the same page. Yes, it is. It's at the bottom of the page in
18 "All paramilitary formations and individuals illegally possessing
19 arms and ammunition are called upon to hand them over to the municipal TO
20 Staff or the nearest military unit immediately or by no later than 1500
21 hours on the 11th of May ..."
22 "After the expiry of this deadline, responsible organs will
23 search and confiscate arms and ammunition, applying the most rigorous
25 Now, you spoke about the disarmament process during the course
1 of -- of your interview at the -- the second interview this is, at page
2 54. But I'd just like to ask you a few more questions about that.
3 First, against whom was the call for disarmament applied? Which
4 sections of the population?
5 A. Well, Muslims and Croats.
6 Q. And the sort of arms that were being taken from them, did you, on
7 occasion, see what sort of weapons they were?
8 A. No, I had no opportunity to see them. I only heard stories on
9 the occasion of the military police operation at the Rankovici village
10 that weapons were brought in on tractors. But I didn't see that.
11 Q. Now, as a prosecutor in Teslic, non-Serbs who were found with
12 arms, for what offence were they prosecuted? Or what charges were
13 brought against them.
14 A. I think that this criminal offence was called illegal possession
15 of weapons and explosive substances. I don't remember the exact article
16 in the Criminal Code. But this would have been the criminal offence in
18 Q. All right. We're going to come onto some -- to your books and
19 the Code -- the offences in a moment.
20 But as far as you were concerned, what sort of evidence did the
21 police provide you with, in respect of these people who were arrested for
22 illegal possession of -- of arms?
23 A. I think that those were certificates about the seizure of
24 weapons. That was the only evidence that was enclosed with the criminal
1 Q. Were you yourself aware of how some of the non-Serbs had acquired
2 arms, which were not, say, for example, hunting rifles?
3 A. Well, no. I can only suppose that there was substantial quantity
4 of hunting weapons for which they had valid permits and that the police
5 would seize those even from persons who had permits.
6 I heard, however, that some military armaments were taken away
7 from Croats and Muslims in that period and that there was a flourishing
8 trade in these armaments; namely, that Serbs sold them to Muslims and
9 Croats and that they came by their weapons in this manner, that is,
10 through illicit trade. But this is only a story that I was able to hear.
11 I have no other source of information.
12 Q. Where such -- as far as you understood it, and I accept that you
13 didn't have first-hand information, where such a sale will taken place,
14 would the police be aware of who had sold what weapons to whom?
15 A. No. I don't know.
16 Q. All right.
17 A. I cannot speak about that. I allow for the possibility ...
18 Q. All right. Don't worry. Thank you very much, judge. We'll move
19 to a separate document. Thank you.
20 Now, I want to ask you, please, a few questions about the
21 judicial system itself at this period of time. That is, 1992. Again,
22 you dealt with it in your interview, but I think it may help the Court if
23 we just cover a few of the salient points.
24 MS. KORNER: Just a moment ...
25 Q. Yes. Now, in 1992, was --
1 MS. KORNER: And, Your Honours, this is at page 16 of the first
3 Q. -- was it the police who decided who would be prosecuted? In
4 other words, they were the first port of call for an investigation?
5 A. Yes. One could say that they were the first link in the chain.
6 But because under the law they were in charge of collecting evidence
7 about criminal offences. And it was the public prosecutor who launched
8 the continuation of the process. So the prosecutor could be seen as
9 something of a go-between, between the police and the court, although the
10 prosecutor did have some powers to launch some investigations.
11 However, in practice, most times public prosecutors limited
12 themselves to processing the criminal reports received from the police.
13 Q. All right. So once the police had investigated, would they then
14 submit a criminal report to the prosecutor?
15 A. Yes. They were even authorised to impose detention for up to
16 three days. It was so-called police detention before filing a criminal
17 report with the public prosecutor.
18 Q. All right. And was it then the prosecutor's decision whether,
19 based on the documents or the evidence produced, that there was
20 sufficient evidence to -- for the police to charge the person with a -- a
22 A. Yes, exactly. The prosecutor would consider the evidence
23 enclosed with the criminal report and then decide whether to refuse it or
24 launch an investigation. In case of less serious offences, there was the
25 possibility of skipping the investigation stage and going directly to an
2 Q. All right. Now, can I come now to the -- the question of this
3 known and unknown perpetrator.
4 If the police sent up a file that said, "perpetrator unknown,"
5 what further steps could the prosecutor take?
6 A. Well, there weren't many options. Mostly it boiled down to an
7 order to the police to continue collecting evidence and engage in
8 activities necessary to identify the perpetrator. Such cases were filed
9 as criminal reports against unknown perpetrators, and we would wait for
10 information to come in about the perpetrator. That information would
11 come from the police, of course.
12 Q. Now, from your own experiences in Teslic in 1992 - and I'm
13 limiting the question to 1992 - what view did you form about the number
14 of unknown perpetrator cases that came to you as the prosecutor?
15 A. I think that a smaller number of those was filed. Most
16 perpetrators were not reported. Here, I rely on a report that I made in
17 that period, in which I stated that many perpetrators remained
18 unidentified. It was my suspicion that the police did not report all
19 perpetrators of crimes who were known, and that is why I demanded from
20 the police and other institutions that all cases be processed.
21 I based this upon what I was able to hear in the -- in that
22 period. There was a large number of criminal offences for which it could
23 be supposed that the police did know the perpetrator was never reported.
24 Such as planting explosive devices, breaking and entering, theft of
25 automobiles, and other criminal offences.
1 I believe I stated all that in my report --
2 Q. Yes --
3 A. -- and it was my position that this situation cannot be
4 tolerated. I insisted that the police do their work the way they are
5 expected to.
6 Q. Yes. Well, we're going to have a look at your report a little
7 later because it came in September of 1992.
8 So if the police gave you a file which had an unknown
9 perpetrator, there was nothing further that you, the prosecutor, could do
10 other than presumably tell the police to carry on investigating?
11 A. The prosecutor had absolutely no way of doing anything
12 independently from the police, and that was the problem with that system.
13 The police could simply say, Based on available information, we're unable
14 to identify the perpetrator. And the prosecutor had no resources of his
15 own to conduct an independent investigation.
16 Q. You've said that was the problem with the system then. Has
17 the -- just so that we can see the contrast. Has the system changed
18 since then? Since 1992?
19 A. The system changed after 2000 when the -- when the criminal
20 legislation was reformed. Under the new system the public prosecutor
21 runs the investigation; he has just authority.
22 Q. All right. Yes, thank you. All right. That's all for the
23 moment I want to ask you about the general picture of the judicial
25 We're going to look at some files and your log-books a little
2 Can I ask you now, please, to deal, however, with the
3 jurisdictional overlap, as it were, between -- sorry, between cases that
4 came within the civilian courts and those that came within the military
6 MS. KORNER: Could we have up on the screen - and it's your tab
7 1, please - the Law on Military Courts, which is P1284.07.
8 And could we go in that, please, to Article, please, 15 which is
9 on the third -- third page in English, and, in B/C/S, it is the third
10 page as well.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes.
12 MS. KORNER:
13 Q. Now, Article 15 deals with the respective jurisdictions of the
14 military court and civilian court. And there we see, it says that:
15 "If a serviceman and a civilian exclusive of persons under
16 Article 13," which deals with the various crimes that are excluded, and
17 we've been through those with another witness, "had committed a crime as
18 accomplices, and if the trial of the civilian falls within the
19 jurisdiction of another regular court, this court will also try the
21 In your experience and your knowledge, where there was a mixed
22 group - for example, the Mice, which were mixed members of the civilian
23 police and the military, would the civilian court have jurisdiction?
24 A. I think that in the relevant period, we had authority. That is,
25 the regular jurisdiction -- or, rather, judiciary. Because the military
1 court did not function. I cannot remember now when it was established
2 and started functioning. For a while, I believe they existed but they
3 didn't have any judges except for the president. I think his name was
4 Mile Vignjevic as far as I remember. But I cannot say when it started
5 discharging its authority.
6 In case of the Mice, if we were to adhere to the law strictly,
7 the military court would have jurisdiction. But that question never
8 arose because -- probably because the military court was not functioning
10 Q. All right. But as far as Article 15 is concerned, could -- from
11 your experience, could the civilian courts also try where there was a
12 crime that had been committed by both civilians and members of the
13 military, could the civilian courts try both? That is to say, the
14 civilian and the military person.
15 A. I believe so. The question of jurisdiction could arise in the
16 course of the proceedings, but here it did not arise. There were a large
17 number of civilian persons, that is, from the police, and the conclusion
18 was that this falls under the jurisdiction of the regular judiciary.
19 Q. Right. Now, as far as the question of war crimes is concerned,
20 and that's Article 13, which is on -- begins on the second page of the
21 English version of this, and I believe also in the B/C/S. Yep.
22 Did the civilian courts have jurisdiction over war crimes which
23 were committed by civilians obviously with the exception of prisoners of
24 war, which is excluded specifically?
25 A. I believe that military courts had the jurisdiction over war
2 Q. But is that all war crimes; or did the civilian courts have
3 jurisdiction over war crimes when they were committed, as we see in
4 Article 13, by civilians who didn't come within any of the -- as you call
5 it -- I suppose -- yes, subsections of that Article?
6 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I believe that the
7 witness is being shown something that may lead him to a wrong conclusion.
8 In Article 13, war crimes are not mentioned. So the witness
9 should first be asked which crime -- criminal offences are dealt with in
10 Article 13 and only then ask him about war crimes specifically.
11 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I cannot answer your question
12 completely with full responsibility. I wouldn't know which offences were
13 encompassed by Article 13, and I also don't know whether the war crimes
14 fall exclusively under the jurisdiction of military courts. And based on
15 these basic provisions, I cannot conclude what the answer should be.
16 MS. KORNER:
17 Q. All right. Judge, I thought you had taken through this when you
18 were seen. But if you haven't, rather than go through because the time
19 is limited that I have with you, all of the various sections that are
20 enumerated, we'll leave that.
21 Are you aware of any prosecutions against civilians who were
22 Serbs for any war crimes committed against the non-Serb population in
23 Teslic, other than the Mice Group, which we'll come onto.
24 A. No, I don't know of such cases, and I don't think there were any.
25 Q. All right. That deals with that aspect.
1 Now, can I move, please, to look at the Mice saga.
2 You dealt with this again in your interview at some length, and
3 it's the second interview from page 33 onwards. But I want you to have a
4 look at some of the documents that you weren't shown at the time of the
6 Can I just ask you this. We -- we know that the Mice Group was
7 arrested by Predrag Radulovic who came from Banja Luka together with a
8 group of men in order to affect that arrest.
9 Do you have any recollection now of whether or not you attended a
10 meeting in Banja Luka with Mr. Perisic, president of the municipality,
11 and others, about dealing with the Mice?
12 A. Yes, I do remember attending such a meeting, together with the
13 president of the court, the president of the municipality, Mr. Perisic,
14 and I think Mr. Radulovic was also present at the meeting.
15 Q. And can I just ask you this, because it's a question that's come
16 up before, do you know where the name "Mice" came from?
17 A. I have heard stories, allegedly, that was the diminutive version
18 of Milan Ninkovic's name who was the leader in Doboj, and so Milan
19 nickname Mica, and then hence Mices. That's what I heard but I cannot
20 claim it as truth. It does sound logical though.
21 Q. All right. Well, let move straight, shall we, then, please, to
22 the file -- well, actually let's start with the -- oh, no documents.
23 MS. KORNER: Could we have a look, please, at -- well, first of
24 all, at document 10361.
25 Your Honours, it's not obviously on our 65 ter list and I'm not
1 going ask for it to be exhibited at this stage. Sorry, tab 10.
2 Q. This is a report dated the 5th of June from someone called Milos
3 You'll see it on the back of it.
4 And I just want to ask you about this. It says in this report:
5 "About 50 Muslims and Croats have been arrested in Teslic. There is
6 information that they were responsible for the organisation and creation
7 of enemy military formations and the organisers of weapons procurement
8 and distribution."
9 From your own knowledge of what happened in Teslic, does that
10 refer to arrests by members of the Mice Group or to some other arrests?
11 A. No, I think this must be about some other persons, not about
12 members of Mice.
13 Q. All right. So -- no. Yeah, this 5th of June, do you know
14 whether, were the police or other authority --
15 A. Yes, I believe that this may refer to the action in the village
16 of Stenjak.
17 Q. All right. Okay. Well, I'll come back to it, because, as I say,
18 I want to deal with Stenjak separately.
19 All right. Next, can we move, please, then, to the next document
20 which is at your tab 11, and it's P702. It is already exhibited.
21 Now, this is a military report of the 1st of July, but I want to
22 ask you about a couple of things in it, if you can assist us.
23 At page 3 in English, and, in B/C/S, it is the second page,
24 there's a paragraph that says:
25 "A special unit for combatting DTG," which appears to be sabotage
1 groups, "and securing vital buildings of some 60 men was formed as part
2 of a CJB in February 1992. As a large number of the delinquents became a
3 part of the unit immediately after its formation, there were reactions
4 from the locals in Teslic regarding the inappropriate behaviour of its
6 Now, do you know anything about that, about this special unit?
7 A. I think there were people who were in charge of securing
8 communications, bridges, and some facilities. I assume this refers to
9 the people like that who also conducted searches at check-points on
10 communications route -- communications. I know for a fact there were
11 check-points on roads --
12 Q. Right --
13 A. -- held or manned by armed people, and I assume that this refers
14 to the people like that.
15 Q. All right. And it says: "A large number of delinquents and so
16 there were reactions from locals in Teslic."
17 Do you recall that people reacted badly to delinquents being part
18 of this group?
19 A. No, no, I really don't have any recollection on that. But I
20 would allow for the possibility that there were a large number of people
21 there who did have a criminal record of some sort.
22 Q. And final question on this then is, do you know under whose
23 authority this special unit came, who were securing communications,
24 bridges, and the like?
25 A. I don't think that they arrived Teslic. I think they were
1 established in Teslic, but I don't know who they were established by, in
2 what way, at what time, how many men did they have among their ranks.
3 Q. All right. And then it goes on to deal with the Mice, the
4 military aspect of the Mice, in the paragraph after that that
5 Captain First-Class Ljubisa Petricevic, former head of the Doboj military
6 section, was sent from Doboj to Teslic at the end of May 1992 ... brought
7 military police with him.
8 And Petricevic and this group carried out a successful
9 mobilisation in several days.
10 Was mobilisation part of what this group were doing, from what
11 you could see?
12 A. I wouldn't know, I didn't have information to that effect, namely
13 that they've come there for the purpose of mobilisation. What was
14 obvious was the other part, the other side of the coin, the criminal
15 element. I do not know of any mobilisation.
16 Q. Thank you, that's all I ask about that document.
17 And now can we look, please, at the whole of the Mice file. You
18 will find it at your tab 14, please.
19 MS. KORNER: I'm not going to go through the whole of it, but
20 we'll just go through some of it. Oh, sorry, it's Exhibit 65 ter 2485.
21 Q. You've had a chance to look through this, Judge Peric, before.
22 Can you confirm that this is the file on the Mice Group?
23 A. Yes, it is.
24 MS. KORNER: Then, Your Honours, may I ask that this now be
25 admitted and marked.
1 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked.
2 MS. KORNER: Thank you.
3 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P1363, Your Honours.
4 MS. KORNER:
5 Q. Now, it contains a number of documents, the majority of which, I
6 think, are statements taken from the persons, some of the persons who
7 were arrested, and also statements from potential witnesses.
8 Is that right?
9 A. Yes, it is.
10 Q. And some of them - is this right? - are -- some of the
11 statements, not all of them are there, but some of the statements taken
12 were from victims of this Group's crimes?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And others who were in a position to know them.
15 Now, I want to look, please, just at the statement of one of the
16 people who was actually arrested, and that's Mr. Tekic. You will find
17 that in, I think, page 17 of the file. I hope. Oh, it's all going one
18 towards -- but quite difficult. It's 17 pages in and it's page 24 in the
19 English and 17 of B/C/S.
20 MS. KORNER: Oh, sorry. I'll give you the ERN number at the top,
21 that's the easiest. It's -- if you look at the top, the numbers, it's
22 0211-7022. Yep.
23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Slobodan.
24 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: We couldn't hear the
1 MS. KORNER:
2 Q. Could you just repeat the surname for the interpreter, Judge?
3 A. Slobodan Tekic.
4 Q. And is this a statement made to an authorised official of the
5 Banja Luka CSB, and it says regarding his stay in Teslic. And he says:
6 "I'm not a member of any military formation. I arrived Teslic at
7 the beginning of July of this year as a member of the group sent by the
8 Doboj CSB, or more precisely, by Chief Bjelosevic and his deputy, Savic,
9 in order to restore order and discipline in the police and town."
10 Now, from your inquiries into this case, Judge Peric, the
11 statement that he was sent by Andrija Bjelosevic and his deputy,
12 Milan Savic is that something that was confirmed by other evidence?
13 A. I do not think so. As far as I can recall, they all had official
14 police IDs and in the final analysis it would be strange to have
15 Andrija Bjelosevic to be sending civilians together with the police to
17 Q. All right. Again, from your investigations into this matter,
18 what role did you conclude had been played by Bjelosevic and Milan Savic,
19 his deputy?
20 A. According to what we have determined in the course of the
21 investigation, they were the ones who had organised the group, who sent
22 them to Teslic, and gave them authorisation. I think all of them had
23 official IDs, military uniforms, weapons. I don't think there was one
24 single exception to this. There were even people in that group, among
25 them a man I knew from before the war, who was a police -- who had been a
1 police inspector in Brod before that, but there were also people who were
2 criminals who had had criminal records. I knew one of them as well, so I
3 was astonished to see that they were part of the police group. They were
4 certainly organised by Andrija Bjelosevic and Savic. We determined that
5 during the investigation.
6 JUDGE DELVOIE: Ms. Korner, I'm a little bit puzzled. Is this
7 answer not directly in contradiction with the previous one and, if so,
8 could you clarify with the witness.
9 MS. KORNER: Yes, I think it may be the way I asked the question
10 originally that wasn't ...
11 MR. PANTELIC: I do apologise. I think in -- it's page 27, line
12 17, starting with Ms. Korner, I think it should be deleted -- not deleted
13 but to make another line but there is no mention that Judge Delvoie posed
14 that question in line 17, yes.
15 MS. KORNER: Yes. Sorry. Your Honours' intervention hasn't been
16 recorded at all in the transcript. It may be because he was still
17 speaking and I over-spoke or you over-spoke. It's quite difficult with
18 the video.
19 Q. Judge, can I just ask you this: My original question when we
20 were reading the statement of this chap, Tekic, was to you, did you
21 conclude that what he -- I have to look at my own question, I suppose.
22 I asked you whether the statement made by Tekic, that he been
23 sent by Andrija Bjelosevic and his deputy Milan Savic, is something that
24 was confirmed by other evidence. And you said I don't think so. As far
25 as can I recall they all had official police IDs, and in the final
1 analysis it would be strange to have Andrija Bjelosevic to be sending
2 civilians together with the police.
3 And then you said later in answer the question I then asked you,
4 what role did you conclude had been played by Bjelosevic and Savic, was
5 that they effectively had organised all of this and sent the Mice. And
6 there is an apparent contradiction between those two answers. Could you
7 just explain? As I say, it may be the way I asked the question.
8 A. I do not see any contradiction. This man was a member of a
9 police formation that was organised, that was set up by this Bjelosevic.
10 Both of my answers point to that.
11 So Tekic was part of a formation. Here it's stated military but
12 it was a police formation. He arrived armed, together with this group,
13 with police ID. He told us that he had been sent by Bjelosevic and
15 received an assignment, a police assignment.
16 Q. [Microphone not activated] Your original answer meant -- it was
17 dealing with the fact that this civilian should not have had -- if he was
18 a civilian and not a member of the police, should not have had a police
19 identification card supplied by Bjelosevic.
20 A. That was my conclusion; namely, that he couldn't have been a
21 civilian, that he must have been a member of reserve of police forces,
22 who was mobilized back into the police, armed, and sent to Teslic.
23 Q. All right.
24 A. I had never come across a situation where police would issue
25 weapons, IDs, uniforms without that person being either part of the
1 reserve police or someone with an assignment.
2 Q. All right.
3 JUDGE HALL: Ms. Korner, if you're about to move on, it is time
4 for the break.
5 MS. KORNER: I am, yes -- well, I'm still on the same topic,
6 but ...
7 JUDGE HALL: Judge Peric, we are at the point where we would take
8 our first break. The Court will rise now, and we will resume in 20
10 [The witness stands down]
11 --- Recess taken at 3.43 p.m.
12 --- On resuming at 4.09 p.m.
13 [Trial Chamber confers]
14 JUDGE HALL: If we could go into closed session before the -- we
15 resume the testimony of the witness. Private session, I'm sorry.
16 [Private session]
21 [Open session]
22 MS. KORNER:
23 Q. Judge, sorry about that small digression?
24 MS. KORNER: I think we're back in open session.
25 THE REGISTRAR: We're back in open session, Your Honours.
1 MS. KORNER: I just want to continue on the theme for a moment on
2 the responsibility for bringing the Mice to Teslic.
3 Q. In 1999, after the discovery of the bodies of victims of the
4 Mice's activities, I think there was flurry of publicity and articles in
5 a number of different newspapers within Bosnia and the Republika Srpska.
6 In one of them you gave an interview, and that was to "Nezavisne Novine";
7 is that right?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. And in the course of that interview, and I want to ask you about
10 this part of it.
11 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, I'm not seeking to put the interview
12 in, but it's at tab 56 of Your Honours' bundles or whatever, and for the
14 Q. You said this: "When I told Municipal President Nikola Perisic
15 that he would pay for these crimes sooner or later, he just smiled
16 naively believing that no one would be responsible."
17 First, did you -- did you say that to the newspaper?
18 A. Yes, I did.
19 Q. From your investigations, what role did you conclude that
20 President -- municipal President Perisic had played in -- in this
21 scenario of the Mice coming to Teslic?
22 A. My conclusion was that his role was crucial, both in bringing
23 them over, as well, I believe, in what they did in Teslic.
24 Q. And in what way "crucial"?
25 A. Well, he was the president of the municipality. He was in charge
1 of the Crisis Staff, at its head. He was the one who influenced and had
2 the crucial role in adopting the decisions by -- by the Crisis Staff.
3 Q. Yes. And how -- how did -- sorry. How did that impact on --
4 on -- on the bringing to Teslic of the Mice?
5 A. The decision to bring them was adopted by the Crisis Staff.
6 Based on that decision, two people went to Doboj to arrange their
7 arrival. They spoke to Andrija Bjelosevic and Ljubisa Petricevic. We
8 found that out during the investigation. I believed that
9 Vid Stojanovic [phoen], too, who took part in those talks was interviewed
10 during the investigation, so I believe it was him who spoke about that.
11 It was my conclusion that Nikola Perisic had the -- played the key,
12 crucial role. He was the kind of man who wanted to have the main say in
13 all things military and civilian, and, hence, his arguments and strife
14 with many people. There was him on one side and on the other side were
15 the military structures of both Doboj and Teslic and so on.
16 Q. All right. Now, in this file of the Mice it contains Official
17 Notes made by the head of the police in the SJB in Teslic,
18 Mr. Kuzmanovic.
19 JUDGE DELVOIE: Ms. Korner, may I just --
20 MS. KORNER: Yes, of course.
21 JUDGE DELVOIE: A small question. The witness said two people
22 went to Doboj to ask for assistance and to ask the Mice Group to come in.
23 Who were those two people.
24 MS. KORNER:
25 Q. Judge, did you hear the question? Who were the two people who
1 went to Doboj?
2 A. One was Bosko Misic, a people's deputy, and the other was the
3 chief of All People's Defence, his name was Vid Stojanovic.
4 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you.
5 MS. KORNER:
6 Q. To return to what I was asking you, this file contains statements
7 made by the chief of the SJB in Teslic, Mr. Kuzmanovic. And also by the
8 commander, Mr. Markovic. From your investigations, what did you conclude
9 about the police's attitude in Teslic, those who were already there, the
10 SJB heads, in respect of the Mice?
11 A. What we were able to conclude was that -- that they had accepted
12 the Mice and surrendered all police authority to them. They really had
13 no influence over that group. I would dare to call that the suspension
14 of authority of the local police.
15 Q. All right. At that stage, when the -- sorry. Go on.
16 A. I think that they only serviced certain people with information
17 about some operations they planned and so on.
18 So they were not completely marginalised. They had a certain
19 role, they met them daily, there was communication and contact, but
20 during that period, I believe that it was the Mice who were the sole
22 Q. At that stage, when the Mice came in at the beginning of
23 June 1992, roughly how many active and reserve police officers were there
24 in Teslic?
25 A. I think there were about 200 to 300 of them. I don't know a
1 precise figure, but certainly more than 200.
2 Q. All right. Mr. Kuzmanovic and Mr. Markovic, when Predrag
3 Radulovic came in, what happened to them?
4 A. After that operation, they were removed from their positions. I
5 believe that they were discharged from the police. Possibly they were
6 employed by the Doboj police. I don't remember anymore.
7 Temporarily people from Banja Luka had taken over the positions
8 of chief and commander of police, and the chief of the crime
9 investigation department. After that, another man was appointed chief of
10 police. I believe his name was Jokic.
11 Q. Do you know -- because the Court has seen documents complaining
12 about them -- the -- Mr. Markovic and Mr. Kuzmanovic being reinstated.
13 Do you know if they were reinstated at any stage; in other words, went
14 back to the SJB in Teslic?
15 A. I think that they returned to the police structures, and I know
16 that there was a problem with that at the political level.
17 Q. And what sort of problem was that?
18 A. There was no agreement about their return. In the military
19 structures, and I believe in political circles, there was opposition
20 because they were not in the same political party. Markovic was a
21 radical whereas Perisic was a member of the SDS, and there was some sort
22 of conflict that arose over that, between them. Perisic did not agree
23 with their return, which was imposed.
24 Q. Yes. And, again, from your investigations, you've talked about
25 effectively military police and political cooperation on this. What was
1 the purpose of this whole operation, of bringing in the Mice into Teslic?
2 A. I can only assume what it was about. I didn't see any real need
3 for people to come in from outside for purposes of mobilisation as it had
4 been put in their statements. They said that they been called in to
5 assist in the mobilisation process. I wasn't aware of any problems
6 related to that.
7 So my conclusion was that they had come to create an atmosphere
8 of fear and, thus, exert pressure to bring about voluntary departures and
9 removal. That may not have been the original objective but to my mind,
10 this was exactly their role. For some 20 day, their activity was
11 tolerated until Nikola Perisic risked being arrested himself. There was
12 even talk about killing him. So I believe that what ensued was a
13 consequence of that conflict.
14 Q. And it may -- obviously it may be obvious, but who was it that
15 they were trying to bring about the voluntary departure of? What
16 sections of the population.
17 A. The Bosniaks and Croats. Finally, two operations of the
18 so-called cleansing of those villages were a implementation of that idea.
19 Q. All right. Can we just finish the -- with the -- the topic of
20 the Mice. I mean, the Court has heard a fair amount about it.
21 Can we look next please at --
22 JUDGE HARHOFF: Ms. Korner, there is just one little problem or
23 question that I would wish to kick in, namely, in relation to the
24 witness's explanation that the reinstatement of Markovic and the other
25 guy was imposed.
1 And my question would be imposed by whom. It's in page 35, line
2 25 in the transcript on the screen.
3 MS. KORNER: Yes.
4 Q. Judge, did you hear the question from Judge Harhoff. You said
5 that the reinstatement of Markovic and, Kuzmanovic, I think it is, was
6 imposed. And the question is: By whom?
7 A. I think it was the police structures and military structures from
8 Doboj who imposed that.
9 JUDGE DELVOIE: Ms. Korner, I have a small question to, if you
10 want, as we are leaving the topic of the Mice now --
11 MS. KORNER: We're not, Your Honour. I'm going through some of
12 the things that happened, but certainly.
13 JUDGE DELVOIE: No, that's okay. Then I'll wait.
14 MS. KORNER: Well, if you like, why don't you ask now?
15 JUDGE DELVOIE: Well, the witness said - and this is, if I'm not
16 wrong, not in his prior statement - that he was at a meeting in
17 Banja Luka when Perisic and someone else came to ask to do something
18 about the Mice Group.
19 My question is: How did it came about that he was there; and
20 what was discussed there? What was ... what was the purpose -- the
21 purpose and the content of the meeting.
22 MS. KORNER: Yes. Your Honour is quite right. I skipped rather
23 over that.
24 Q. Judge, you told us you do now remember, you had been asked about
25 this before, and you said you couldn't remember, but you now recall going
1 to a meeting in Banja Luka together with Perisic and, I think, the judge
2 at the Teslic court; is that right?
3 A. Perisic was there.
4 Q. And was the judge of the Teslic court also with you, whose name -
5 I apologise - I --
6 A. Yes, the president of the court also came with me. I think that
7 Predrag Radulovic insisted that we go to tell Mr. Zupljanin about the
8 situation. That was our only role to confirm what Radulovic, I suppose,
9 had earlier informed Mr. Zupljanin about as a problem. And as far as I
10 remember, the conversation was only about that.
11 Q. Who suggested the meeting, that you go? Mr. Radulovic?
12 A. I think it was Mr. Radulovic. I cannot be certain, but I think
13 that he invited us. We took some small roads for safety reasons --
14 Q. All right.
15 A. -- my conclusion was that it was his idea and his plan, that he
16 was the organiser.
17 Q. And did you -- at the meeting, when you -- did you -- did you
18 speak to Stojan Zupljanin?
19 A. I don't remember the details of the conversation. There was
20 several people. I'm not sure who presented the situation or what I said.
21 I don't remember that. I remember that there were people from the corps,
22 the military. Then people from military security. There was the
23 President of the Banja Luka court and the prosecutor from the Banja Luka
24 prosecutor's office. So several people were present.
25 Q. All right. Did you know a Colonel Stevilovic from the 1st
1 Krajina Corps, the intelligence officer?
2 A. I think that he attended the meeting.
3 Q. And what about a gentleman named Nedeljko Kesic, head of the SNB
4 in Banja Luka. Was he there?
5 A. Nedeljko Kesic, yes, I believe that he was there. I'm almost
6 certain that he was.
7 Q. I agree, I can see that it's not something that you remember that
8 clearly. But can you remember how matters were left at the end of the
9 meeting; in other words, was anything said to you by Mr. Zupljanin that
10 he would help, or wouldn't help, or what would happen?
11 A. I'm not sure that any decision was communicated to us then. I
12 suppose that the decision was taken after the meeting. I cannot confirm
13 that though.
14 Q. All right. Thank you very much. That's all I want to ask.
15 All right. Can we just move through quickly the documents that
16 show what happened in this case.
17 Could you have a look, please, at your tab 15.
18 MS. KORNER: And that's P837.
19 Q. Is that the report to the investigating judge in Teslic, which
20 was -- went out under Mr. Radulovic's name?
21 A. Yes, it is.
22 Q. And was that -- is that the sort of standard report that would
23 come from the police when they had made arrests for crimes?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. It is a very bad copy and we'll see the names more clearly later
1 on, but at no stage does it appear that Milan Savic was ever arrested; is
2 that right?
3 A. Yes. Really, he wasn't covered by this criminal report, and he
4 was not apprehended.
5 I checked that in the meantime. I mistakenly believed that he
6 was in hospital because one of the Mice was so badly beaten up that he
7 was in hospital rather than in detention. But it was for Dobrivoje
8 Culibrk, but Milan Savic wasn't affected by this operation and he was not
10 Q. And do you know why that was? Did you ever make inquiries as to
11 why Milan Savic, who everybody said was in charge of all of this, or part
12 of it, was never arrested or interviewed?
13 A. I cannot explain that. Predrag Radulovic probably knows that.
14 Both were state security men. I suppose that it has to do with their
15 relations. Ljubisa Petricevic wasn't arrested either, although he was
16 also involved. Allegedly, however, the military police apprehended him
17 and took him to Banja Luka and I don't know what happened later, but he
18 wasn't covered by this criminal report either. The two of them were
19 omitted by the police.
20 Q. We'll see in a moment the documents from the military and police
21 side requesting the release of various people.
22 From what your experience of what happened then and what was
23 happening, could the military and police structures have had any bearing
24 on the fact that the two leaders weren't arrested? Any influence, I
25 should say, really.
1 A. I think that's possible.
2 Q. All right. All right. Thank you. That's all.
3 MS. KORNER: Can we then look, please, at document, next tab for
4 you, 168, P703 for us.
5 Q. Yes. This is a --
6 MR. PANTELIC: I do apologise, Ms. Korner. It's just a
7 correction to the transcript. Page 39, line 16, instead of "alleged him"
8 should be "arrested him."
9 MS. KORNER: Thank you.
10 Q. This is -- it starts off. It's a report, again, from
11 Mr. Radulovic, who is at this time is temporary chief of Teslic SJB, and
12 he says about 40 Muslims and Croats have been massacred in the Teslic
13 municipality by a group of criminals from Doboj. And then he goes on to
14 say that there was damage, rape, amongst girls and women of all
15 nationalities, which has caused fear among the citizens.
16 First of all, is that right, that effectively it wasn't just
17 non-Serbs who were frightened, it was also Serbs, by the activities of
18 this group?
19 A. That is correct. A very significant number of Serbs was affected
20 by their activities of robbery, stealing cars, and the like. There were
21 even allegations of rape, although I never got any hard evidence about --
22 about that.
23 Q. All right. And he is asking, it says on the basis of an
24 agreement with political bodies in Teslic, representatives of the army,
25 the president, and the lower court - this is the third paragraph - and
1 the public prosecutor, it was decided that an exhumation be conducted of
2 the 40 people who had been killed. And -- he asked for a forensic team.
3 Now, was any kind of an exhumation conducted then?
4 A. I made a proposal to the investigating judge to conduct an
5 exhumation and he decided in favour.
6 Q. But did he --
7 A. The cost of the exhumation should be covered from the budget.
8 But there the problem arose. The minister of justice, I believe, told
9 the President of the court that the government had no Monday for that and
10 that it must wait; that for the government this was financial problem.
11 Radulovic, however, exaggerates here there. There has never
12 been -- there had never been talks with the politicians about the
13 exhumation. That was an exclusively -- that was under the exclusive
14 jurisdiction of the court, and we never spoke to politicians about that.
15 Q. And the minister of justice in July, was that Momcilo Mandic?
16 A. I cannot confirm that, whether it was Momcilo Mandic or -- or
17 whether it was Ostojic. The president of the court would know that
18 better. I got the information from him.
19 Q. All right. Thank you. I don't think we need -- we've got a
20 criminal report but you've seen that. Because of time, that's the
21 next -- then there's a further request from -- I think -- we can skip
22 that one, actually.
23 Yes, can we look, please, at document at your tab 20, P1312,
24 please, just for a moment.
25 This is the decision of the investigating judge, Mr. Kovacevic,
1 who -- the person you mentioned went to this meeting in Banja Luka
2 saying that the investigation should be carried out.
3 Is that an order to the -- to you or to the police, or to both of
5 A. It's a decision of the investigating judge to accept the
6 prosecutor's application and provided the evidence applied for. So this
7 is merely the decision to launch an investigation and an acceptance of
8 the prosecutor's application. It refers exclusively to what the
9 prosecutor had applied for.
10 Q. All right. And now can we look, please, at another report, which
11 is at your tab 21, and it's 2837.
12 You told -- this is a report by Milos, which I don't imagine you
13 saw before you were asked to look through various documents. But in the
14 first paragraph, he's talking about the overall trend in the broader area
15 of Doboj. Two currents in the SDS party: One is more moderate and has a
16 relatively realistic human and rational stand on the issue of the
17 resolution of issues of ethnic groups living in areas where the Serbs are
18 a majority; the second current, which has currently been able to impose
19 itself more in certain areas, is developing the idea of an ethnically
20 cleansed environment, republic of -- ethnically cleansed Republic Bosnia
21 and Herzegovina
22 resort to whatever means to attain this goal.
23 And then it goes on to say that the killing of civilians in
24 Doboj, Teslic, and Kozarac are not in favour of Serbian dignity and the
25 honour of the Serbian army and so on.
1 Does this report, as it were, go with what you have just told the
2 Court about the reason that the Mice came into Teslic, that what was
3 proposed here or what is stated here is that there was a strain of the
4 SDS that wanted an ethnically cleansed Serbian republic?
5 A. I don't know whether we can speak about two strains within the
6 SDS, but there certainly were extremist individuals in the SDS and there
7 were some in Teslic. One of them was Sava Knezevic, a public deputy and
8 an Orthodox priest. So these extreme trends were not at all alien to us;
9 they were not abstract. But on the whole, within the party, I don't
10 think that there were two groups that significantly differed in their
11 political attitudes.
12 Q. Right. So over all, this say there are two groups, one that
13 wants to ethnically cleanse, one that is more moderate on the issue of
14 ethnic groups other than Serbs living in -- in these areas. How, from
15 your experience, would you have put the overall aim of the SDS in Teslic?
16 A. I think that the policy of the SDS essentially boiled down to
17 ethnic cleansing and that the extreme current, to call it that
18 conditionally, was able to assert itself in the SDS. And it was finally
19 implemented, and that was the result of this policy during the war.
20 Q. And is that -- are you now talking about just Teslic or overall?
21 A. I'm talking about Teslic because I'm familiar with the situation
23 Q. Yes, thank you. All right.
24 Now can we move, please -- well, let's just ... sorry. I just
25 want to check ...
1 Yes. Can you just look, please, for a moment at document 10362,
2 your tab 22.
3 MS. KORNER: Again, Your Honours, I'm not seeking to make this an
4 exhibit because it is not on our 65 ter.
5 Q. But I think you have had a chance to look at it. It's a long
6 description from the military point of view, 1st Krajina Corps
7 effectively, of the -- the Mice and the Teslic [sic].
8 Can you turn to the -- yes, it's the second page in B/C/S and
9 it's the third page in English. There's -- is it up? No, third page?
10 [Prosecution counsel confer]
11 MS. KORNER: Yep.
12 Q. It says in the third para:
13 "Aside from the same individuals," that's Petricevic and the
14 others, "committed several threats, blackmail, robberies, and rapes and
15 up until now it has been confirmed that it's been around 80.500
16 Deutschemarks, et cetera, as well larger amounts of gold and luxurious
17 cars were taken from certain persons and citizens of Teslic.
18 Those are fairly high figures. From your investigations, are
19 those figures reasonably accurate?
20 A. I believe that the figures were mentioned in the course ...
21 Q. All right. And then it says in the next paragraph: "On the 1st
22 of July, information about the situation in the area of Teslic
23 municipality was put together which was then sent by General Talic to
24 Mr. Karadzic with specific suggestions on measures to be taken."
25 Now, were you aware that a report went all the way up to
1 Mr. Karadzic, apparently, on this matter?
2 A. No, I was not aware. But I assumed that Karadzic did have such
3 information from several sources. I am sure that Karadzic must have
4 known about the events, but I did not know about this document.
5 Q. And why do you say you're sure that Mr. Karadzic must have known
6 about these events?
7 A. Because he had his deputies, people's deputies, who were also
8 members of the Main Board of the SDS. He was at the head of the
9 Main Board. I think they were exchanging such information. I simply
10 believed it couldn't have remained a secret.
11 Q. Yes, thank you. That's all I want to ask you about that
13 Could you look now, please, at -- it's already an Exhibit. No --
14 yes, can we look at the two requests for release, please, first one at
15 your tab 25, 3571 -- 65 ter 3571.
16 The -- this is to the -- from the Operations Group Command at
17 Doboj to Teslic investigating judge, asking for the release, immediate
18 release so they can take part in combat operations. And all of those
19 men, I think, if -- the document we looked at, the report, Mr. Sljuka was
20 number 9, Mr. Sljivic number 8, Gavranovic number 13, Kezunovic is number
21 14, Momic 12, Slavuljica, whatever, they are all on the list anyhow.
22 Did you see this request at the time?
23 A. Yes, I did. The investigative judge did show me the request,
24 because, at the time, we had some other information -- or, rather,
25 threats from Doboj, lawyers from Doboj who were representing some of the
1 persons mentioned here openly told us that we are living dangerously,
2 that Teslic will be bombarded from Ozren mountain, so that because of the
3 verbal threats we paid more attention to this very document as well.
4 Q. All right. Had had happened before, that there had been a
5 request from military officials, senior military officers for the release
6 of people who had been lawfully arrested for criminal offences?
7 A. We haven't had cases of pressure excerpted by the army in other
8 cases. There was one case when the president of the municipality,
9 Mr. Perisic, asked a group of people from a village to ask us to release
10 one of the people from the village, but never from the army.
11 Q. Yes.
12 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, may that please be admitted and
14 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked.
15 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P1364, Your Honours.
16 MS. KORNER: And then if we look, please, at your document 27,
17 tab 27, it's already exhibited, 1342 -- P1342, sorry, not the 65 ter.
18 Q. Same kind of request by Mr. Bjelosevic. Again, was this
19 something that the investigating -- in fact, I think dated exactly the
20 same day, yes, both of them dated the 17th of July.
21 Again, did Mr. President Kovacevic show you this document at the
23 A. Yes, yes. I -- I am aware of this document as well.
24 Q. Had you requests from senior officers, police officers before, to
25 have members of the police who had been -- or alleged police who had been
1 lawfully arrested, released?
2 A. No. We never had that kind of pressure exerted by the police.
3 Q. Yes. All right. And just hopefully to go through this a bit
4 more quickly now.
5 I think that, if we look, please, at P1314, Exhibit P1314.
6 And it's the next tab for you, Judge, at tab 28.
7 This is the President of the Doboj High Court, Mr. Neskovic, who
8 is saying that the individuals who had been sent to Banja Luka
9 think, should be transferred to Doboj; is that right?
10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Why had they originally been sent to Banja Luka prison?
12 A. Because in our assessment, their stay in Doboj could have
13 obstructed the investigation.
14 Q. All right.
15 A. Bearing in mind how these people arrived. And, therefore, it was
16 arranged with the warden of the Banja Luka prison for them to be
17 accommodated in Banja Luka, although the Banja Luka prison, according to
18 the prison system, people from Teslic shouldn't have been sent to
19 Banja Luka, but I think it was the investigative judge who held talks in
20 relation to this issue and, eventually, these people were accommodated in
21 the District Prison in Banja Luka.
22 Q. And as a result of this order by Mr. -- by Judge Neskovic were
23 they, in fact, transferred to Doboj?
24 A. Yes. Pursuant to this fax, they were transferred to Doboj. We
25 found out about their transfer from the media or maybe someone informed
1 us about it. And then, at least I believe we went to the president of
2 the high court in Banja Luka who told us that he knows nothing about that
3 and later on told us that, after having asked a prison warden in
4 Banja Luka, that they were actually released on the basis of this fax.
5 So it was even without the knowledge of the President of the High
6 Court which was the supervisory organ that these people were transferred
7 to Doboj. That's the information we received.
8 But this fax was addressed, as we can see here, to the president
9 of the high court in Banja Luka which leads me to believe that he must
10 have known about the request and approved of it, at least verbally, if
11 not in writing.
12 Q. And then I think it's right, we can deal with that quite quickly,
13 that they were, in fact, released by Judge Neskovic; is that right? He
14 ordered their release?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. And if we look very quickly at the next document because it's s
17 already an exhibit. That's P1353.09, your tab 30.
18 As you say, this received a great deal of publicity or --
19 probably it's because there's a long article in "Glas" headed: "The
20 notorious Mice are free."
21 Now, I said there was a great deal. Was there, in fact,
22 publicity not only in "Glas" but in other newspapers about the release of
23 these men?
24 A. I don't know whether other media covered it as well, because, at
25 the time, I think "Glas" was the only local media that reached Teslic. I
1 haven't noticed any publicity elsewhere.
2 Q. All right. As a matter of interest, can I just ask you, did you
3 know anything about "Glas"? In other words, its relationship to the SDS
4 and the -- and the government of the Serbian Republic
5 If you didn't, say so.
6 A. I believe they were -- these were all newspapers of the SDS.
7 There were no independent newspapers until after the war. Media were
8 controlled by the SDS; let me put it like that.
9 Q. Thank you. All right. When we look at your log-book, the Teslic
10 log-book, we'll just look at the Mice then. But that's the end of, I
11 think, all that I want to ask you about -- let me just check, if I may,
12 on my note.
13 Well, yes, I think when you saw the investigator and the lawyer
14 in Banja Luka you had a look -- you looked at the Doboj register for the
15 prison, is that right, and you were able to identify the names of the
16 people in -- in the Doboj prison.
17 Do you remember that? When you were seen a few weeks ago.
18 A. I didn't understand your question.
19 Q. All right. I think it's self-evident. So don't worry, Judge.
20 It's my fault.
21 Now, can I just deal before we look at the log-books with a
22 couple of other matters.
23 You've mentioned now and again the attacks on the -- or the
24 disarming operations, perhaps that's a better way of putting it, on the
25 villages of Stenjak and Rankovici, and you talked about that in your
1 interview at pages 71 and following. I want to show you a couple of
2 documents in relation to those.
3 Is that right -- you told us -- you told the OTP in your
4 interviews that these disarmament operations took place shortly after the
5 Mice arrived, around the 8th of June; is that correct?
6 A. Yes. I think the first operation was Stenjak; and then, on the
7 8th of June, Rankovici, if my memory serves me well.
8 Q. And the population of those villages, what was that -- what
9 nationality were they?
10 A. Bosniaks, or Muslim.
11 Q. Do you -- yes. Can I ask you to look, please, at a record of an
12 exhumation that was done a great deal later, in 1999, which is, please,
13 at your tab 41. And it's document 65 ter 2517. And in English, can we
14 go to the seventh page; and in the -- in the B/C/S version -- just a
15 moment. I'm sorry, I forgot to mark that.
16 It will be at the bottom of -- it starts at the bottom of page 3,
17 paragraph 2 or whatever.
18 It's up. Thank you.
19 It says:
20 "The first grave which we began the planned exhumation work in
21 the Bosniak cemetery of Stenjak
22 "According to preliminary information, staging an attack by the
23 Bosniaks, the Teslic Serbs in fact attacked the Bosniaks in the village
24 of Stenjak between the 3 and 10 June 1992" --
25 Sorry, we need to go to the next page, I think, of this in -- in
2 And "killed about 17 unarmed Bosniak civilians whose bodies were
3 collected in the village much later ..."
4 And then, [indiscernible]. Did -- from your understanding at the
5 time, were unarmed people killed during the operation at Stenjak?
6 A. I really don't know. I cannot give any comment on that, because
7 I don't know what the outcome of the operations were in relation to
8 civilians, whether they were armed or unarmed people. I have no
9 first-hand information. I don't even know about them. I've never heard
10 about this mass grave in Stenjak.
11 Q. All right. Can I ask you this: What was your understanding then
12 of the purpose of the operations that were carried out against Stenjak
13 and Gornji Rankovici?
14 A. I think the purpose was to mop up or cleanse the settlements, and
15 it was a part of a plan. In the final analysis, the same was happening
16 to the Serbian villages on the other side, so some of the people who fled
17 from there were accommodated in Stenjak and Rankovici.
18 Q. Can I just check one other document on this topic, and then I
19 want to ask you about your report.
20 [Prosecution counsel confer]
21 MS. KORNER: Yes, now, I don't think, in light of your answers, I
22 can ask you about that.
23 Q. All right. Can we now look, please, at the report you told us
24 you compiled and which is part of your 65 ter package.
25 It is it -- in fact, it has been exhibited before, P1353.15.
1 Sorry, it's tab 84 for you, Judge.
2 Was this report prepared by you for a meeting of the Municipal
3 Assembly in Teslic?
4 A. Yes. I did -- I did do -- I did do prepare this report. It was
5 sent to the municipality. It was a report. I think they were legally
6 bound to inform the parliament about trends related to crimes or
7 perpetration of crimes.
8 I took the opportunity to inform the politicians about the
9 situation regarding the crime. The report show what my information was
10 and what the situation was like.
11 Q. Can we look, please, at paragraph 3, after you deal with the
12 statistics of what happened. You look -- you set out something a
13 paragraph headed: "Actual Crime Situation." And you said:
14 "Recorded crime is a refraction of the real crime existing in
15 society today. Most criminal acts remain undiscovered and many crimes
16 are tolerated by the authorities for various reasons. The prosecutor's
17 office has knowledge of day-to-day looting of property, houses, and
18 business premises being set on fire and destroyed. Armed robbery and
19 murder being committed for base motives, socially owned flats and private
20 houses being occupied unlawfully, the stealing of forest timber, and
21 other forms of wilful acts. There is no criminal prosecution for most of
22 these acts. In ten days alone, there were three murders for base motives
23 and several cases of arson and armed robbery. In only one cases were the
24 perpetrators arrested and criminal proceedings initiated against them.
25 The perpetrators of the other two murders have not been arrested to the
1 present day. Public prosecutor and the president of the court personally
2 demanded that the command of the Teslic Serbian Brigade arrest one
3 accomplice on suspicion of murder. It is inexplicable why these people
4 have not been arrested."
5 And is that what you were speaking about earlier, Judge, when you
6 said that the police were not - and I'm summarizing - carrying out their
8 Sorry, did you hear the question? Is there a problem?
9 A. Yes, that is precisely that. A large number of crimes that even
10 the public knew about and about which we had information were not
11 processed by the police.
12 Q. And then you go on to say this:
13 "The destruction of religious buildings is a war crime against
14 civilians because of the way and the circumstances in which it was
15 perpetrated. The Serbian people will carry a heavy burden of historical
16 responsibility until the perpetrators of these and similar criminal acts
17 are brought to justice."
18 Is that a view that you held at the time and still hold today?
19 A. Of course. As can you see, I was trying to warn, inform people
20 in the political leadership, people in the power that these were war
21 crimes. I was telling that to various people like that, both privately
22 and at meeting and from this, you can see what -- how I viewed these type
23 of crimes. I could not explain. I could not see how it is possible for
24 religious facilities to be destroyed and then no criminal report to reach
25 us and to have police simply remain silent about it. And my conclusions
1 were that this was done with the approval of the Crisis Staff.
2 Q. And then you go on to say:
3 "The state and its law enforcement organs must urgently answer
4 the following question: What are the causes of these serious crimes and
5 why are they not being disclosed? An answer to this question should be
6 sought from the command of the Teslic Serbian Brigade and interior
7 ministry organs. Otherwise, the impression will be created that this
8 state of crime in the army ranks is tolerated and that no one tries to
9 prevent it, whilst the interior ministry organs will be placed in an
10 unenviable professional situation."
11 And then you go on to suggest whatever it is. And you talked
12 about the religious destruction that you personally knew about in your
13 interview, and I'm not going to ask you about that again.
14 Now, finally, Judge, can I deal with the log-books that were
15 maintained at the Teslic court and about which you were asked to provide
16 various statistics, and we're going to look at some of the cases.
17 Were you able to -- you provided the statistics, we made a note,
18 and we sent you a copy translated of that note.
19 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, that's the one that appears at the end
20 of the proofing note headed: "Statistical Data from the Teslic
22 Q. And are able to confirm that those figures are accurate?
23 A. Yes. I perused this register and my assumption is that the
24 figures are correct.
25 Q. We're going to go through some of the entries in the KT book.
1 So, first of all, I think you were able to confirm that between
2 April -- or you gave us the figures between the 1st of April and the 31st
3 of December, 1992 the police -- the police submitted to the basic
4 prosecutor's office in Teslic criminal reports against 395 people. And
5 for approximately ten of these cases, it's impossible to determine that
6 the originator was the police, because the remarks in the book state they
7 were transferred from other log-books; that is to say, the KTA which is
8 the -- effectively the file which keeps documents, which relate to
9 potential cases; and the KTN, which records unknown perpetrators.
10 Is that right?
11 A. Yes, that is correct.
12 Q. All right. Now, according to the KT log-book, 1992 to 1993, the
13 police filed criminal reports in seven cases during 1992 and no cases in
14 1993 for crimes committed between the 1st of April and the 31st of
15 December, 1992 by Serb perpetrators where the aggrieved parties were
16 Muslims or Croats. So only seven cases all together. And I think we
17 better look at those cases in a little detail, please.
18 MS. KORNER: So can we have up the --
19 Q. You've got in front of you I think your -- your KTN -- your KT
20 book. And the -- it's right at the end. I think we need to have up
21 first 0 -- 65 ter 1546. And it's tab -- sorry. No, it's not tab -- it
22 won't be a tab. You should have the whole book.
23 MS. KORNER: He's got the whole book. Yeah.
24 And now I need to get it.
25 Will Your Honours forgive me for a moment while I just get the
2 Q. Now the first case, could we look at is, at -- it's number 126 in
3 the register. And it's -- it should be on page 05049809 in the original
5 Now, we can -- if we can get the right pages up for -- it's the
6 first page in the English translation.
7 Sorry, this is not -- this is actually cases of -- I'm doing the
8 whole book, actually, because it's easier that way. We'll come to the --
9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] 100?
10 MS. KORNER:
11 Q. If you look at entry 126. Sorry, I just want to look at some of
12 the cases of armed rebellion as well. While we're at it, we'll do the
13 whole book together.
14 A. Yes, Rifan Sakic was reported, criminal offence under Articles
15 119 and 124. Those are two offences.
16 Q. Yes, and, Your Honours, I do have, as part of the law library,
17 which seems to go ever further back in being produced.
18 But that is of the -- the old Yugoslav law, is it not, and
19 Article 119 is?
20 A. Yes, yes, I think that the offences in question are armed
21 rebellion and serving in an enemy army.
22 Q. That's right. Okay. So let's just look at those. We see there
23 that there were three people, is that right -- no, more than that.
24 Three -- if we go to page 3 of the English --
25 A. Yes.
1 Q. -- 4 of the English, rather. We'll see that some --
2 A. Six persons.
3 Q. -- six persons charged with armed rebellion and serving in the
4 enemy's forces, which is 119.
5 And does the log show what happened to them?
6 A. It should show a request to launch an investigation. Now this
7 says "ceded." Ceded to the higher. Probably higher prosecutor's office.
8 Hmm, let me check.
9 I can't really find my way in these log-books.
10 Q. All right. Don't worry. I don't think it matters much anyhow.
11 So that's the first case of armed rebellion. I should have --
12 fax said that the book show all together, and you checked, there is a
13 total of 20 persons being reported for armed rebellion.
14 The next one that -- can we go to is 120 --
15 JUDGE HALL: Ms. Korner, since you're about to go on to a new
16 book, perhaps we should take the break at this point?
17 MS. KORNER: I'm not, I'm just going straight through this book,
18 but I'm going through the entries that are relevant.
19 JUDGE HALL: And I would alert you that, according to our
20 calculations, you have about 20 minutes left.
21 MS. KORNER: Yes, well, I'm going deal with the entries in the
22 book, and that's it.
23 JUDGE HALL: So we take the break at this point.
24 [The witness stands down]
25 --- Recess taken at 5.24 p.m.
1 --- On resuming at 5.51 p.m.
2 MS. KORNER: Yes.
3 Q. Judge, can we go on with the -- can we go on as quickly as we can
4 because I have very little time left with the log-book. Number 127 which
5 you will find on page -- it's the fourth page in the English translation
6 and in the B/C/S it's got 05049811. Which is page 6.
7 127, we've got a number of Muslims, is that right, apparently
8 from the Gornji Rankovic operation, who were charged under Article 213,
9 this time of the Bosnian Criminal Code, and I think we'll find that's
10 illegal possession of weapons.
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. All right. Then can we move, 148, which you will find on page
13 6 -- sorry, the English, but it's 05049817 in B/C/S, which is page 12
14 in -- in the actual log-book charged under the SFRY code with
15 Article 124.
16 A. SFRJ.
17 Q. Yeah. Which is armed rebellion again. I should say that you --
18 the statistics you worked out for armed rebellion cases were a total
19 of -- sorry. Forgive me, I have lost my sheet of paper with those
20 figures on it, which is very unhelpful of me. 20 persons all together?
21 MS. KORNER: Then can we go, please, because there's a lot of
22 people involved in this one, it goes on for pages, to entry number 149 in
23 the log, 10th of July, 05049825. It's page 14 in English and page 20 in
25 Q. And this is one of the ones where Serbs were charged. And I
1 think here we see, is this right, the Mice? Entry 149.
2 A. Just a moment.
3 Q. You should have at the top, page 05049825 stamped. It's page 14
4 in English.
5 A. Yes, 149. Correct. It's about the Mice.
6 Q. All right. I can't see if it is up on the screen. It is.
8 They're charged with a number of different offences. I think 52
9 is under the Bosnian Code false imprisonment, 151 is robbery, 148 is
10 aggravated theft, and 160 is extortion and murder.
11 Now, if we go, please, in the next page in English, and I think
12 to the next page in -- we see it goes on and on and on.
13 Does the file show that in fact there was no criminal proceedings
14 at all against any of these men, were actually brought to any conclusion?
15 A. You mean with regard to the Mice?
16 Q. I do, yes.
17 A. Yes. So far, none has been concluded.
18 Q. Are the people who were charged and recorded in this book still
19 at large? In other words, are they still wondering the streets?
20 A. Yes, they're at large. I think that proceedings were launched
21 only against one. But, no, he was -- he belonged to -- he didn't belong
22 to the Mice; he was from the Teslic police.
23 No other criminal proceedings were launched against the Mice
24 anywhere, as far as I know.
25 Q. All right. Can we move to the second book, please.
1 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, I'm going to ask that both books be
2 exhibited together. I mean, they've been translated together.
3 So it's page 20 in the English translation.
4 Q. Second book for you, and can we go for you to 157. And it's page
5 05 -- 05049625 is stamped at the top.
6 It's 28 in the B/C/S.
7 Now, again, this is one of the seven examples you found of a Serb
8 being charged in relation to an offence apparently committed against a
9 Muslim. And I think 148 is the charge of aggravated theft?
10 Do you remember anything about the details of this case?
11 A. As far as I remember, this was a group of three or four persons
12 who had committed several criminal offences of aggravated theft in
13 several areas. I think that there were both Serbs and Muslims among the
15 Q. All right. And then --
16 A. Yes, as the harmed party.
17 Q. All right. Then can we go to 160. It's on the same page in the
18 English. I think it may be in the same page in the B/C/S. It is.
19 Again, is that a case where Serbs, a number of them, were charged
20 with -- with murder. And this time defamation. Do you remember about
21 that case? This is a whole group. The one before that was a single one.
22 160, there are four of them it looks like?
23 A. No, I spoke about a number 160. And which one were you referring
24 to earlier?
25 Q. 157. Somebody called Mile Stanojevic?
1 A. Yes, yes. This is also about aggravated theft.
2 Q. Right. So the one you were talking about was the one involving
3 four. If we look at the result for each of these cases, we need to go to
4 the next page in English, page 21, we see that in respect of
5 Mr. Stanojevic, the investigation appears to have been terminated; is
6 that right?
7 A. I can't find the box.
8 Q. On the box, I think, 46.
9 A. Yes this is what it says: "Investigation terminated," as a
11 Yes, the remark is that the investigation was terminated.
12 Q. And for the other, the group one, does it look -- they were given
13 although they were sentenced apparently in 1998, nothing happened until
14 then. They were given an amnesty?
15 A. I can't explain what happened. Obviously, this was after I was
16 relieved of my duties. So I don't know the outcome.
17 It is possible, since this involves persons who were soldiers.
18 Q. All right.
19 A. Members of military units, they may have gone to battle-fields
20 and were not available throughout the war. This could happen, and we did
21 have such problems who -- with people who committed crimes and, due to
22 the war operations, we could not get at them.
23 Q. And if they were soldiers, then why were they dealt with by the
24 civilian court? This is in September of 1992.
25 A. Possibly the military court didn't function in that period
1 either. We launched these proceedings because we thought that we were
2 more efficient and that there would be no objections based on
4 Q. All right.
5 MS. KORNER: Can we move then, please, as quickly as we can to
6 166 in your book, page 22 in English, 05049627 in the original, page 30.
7 Q. It's page -- sorry, Judge, when I say 30 it's our purposes, not
8 yours. You need to look at the number at the top.
9 A. Which entry?
10 Q. 166, 15th of September, 1992. The perpetrators appear to be
11 Serbs, and indeed there seems to be a woman with them, Natasa Petkovic?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. And the victim is Muharem Demir, charged, amongst other things,
14 with aggravated theft. Are you able to confirm whether the facts were
15 that these -- they broke into the garage of a non-Serb and stole a
17 A. Yes, this is theft. Mostly these are -- these instances of
18 breaking and entering.
19 Q. And is right that it shows here that the proceedings were
20 suspended under column 29?
21 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, unfortunately it's gone slightly odd
22 in the translation, but I think the original does show that.
23 A. I can't see it in the log-book here, so I'm not sure.
24 Q. All right. I'm told I've got very little time left, so we need
25 to really go through this at speed. 170?
1 A. Yes, it says ...
2 Q. Could we have a look, please, very quickly, and I think I will
3 just have to list the other ones because we won't have enough time.
4 At 170, do we see further people charged -- which is page 24 in
5 English; 05049629 in your copy.
6 A. Bruno Pajunovic, yes.
7 Q. Further armed rebellion case against -- is this right? Are they
8 Croats here?
9 A. Yes, they are the Croats from the village of Slatina
10 other village is Donja Komusina.
11 Q. There is another armed rebellion at 173. Can we go to 178,
12 please, page 28 in English and it's 36 in B/C/S for the e-court. But
13 it's page 05049633 for you.
14 Is that again a case where a Serb was charged but the victim was
15 a Muslim. And does the charge show in 153 is --
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. -- that a -- is that theft of a car?
18 A. I think so. Yes. Stealing a car. Probably this is a stolen
19 passenger car.
20 Q. All right. And then 182, please, at page 30; 05049635. 3rd of
21 November. Is that, again, a Serb perpetrator? Doesn't actually show the
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. All right.
25 A. Entry 182, right?
1 Q. Yep. And does that -- it is illegible in our copy that's why it
2 has not been translated. Does it, in fact, show that the victim was a
3 Muslim? Are you able to read it? Apparently the translator couldn't.
4 A. Judging by the surname, Hadzijusic [phoen] or something, I can't
5 really tell.
6 Q. All right. And, as I say, I'm going have to list the rest.
7 Except 185, I think we'll see slightly more serious. Page 32 in English,
8 05049637, and it's page 40 for the e-court, B/C/S.
9 Again, was that a Serb perpetrator?
10 A. Yes, a Serb.
11 Q. And -- and a Muslim victim?
12 A. The victim was a Bosniak.
13 Q. Bosniak. And was this, in fact, a house fire, and the charge was
14 of that endangering public safety.
15 A. Yes, I think it is.
16 Q. All right. I don't think we've got enough time to go through the
17 other entries.
18 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, the cases of, just for the purposes of
19 the record, [indiscernible] of Serb perpetrators, are those which are
20 listed as entries or the ones we've been through, 149, 157, 160, 166,
21 178, 182, and 185. And as I've said already, the statistics as confirmed
22 by Judge Peric are that in the KT log-book a total of 20 persons reported
23 for the crime of armed insurrection, Article 124, in 1992; one person in
24 1993; 81 persons reported for the crime of service in the enemy army,
25 Article 119 in 1992; and four persons in 1993 for the crimes committed in
2 Then I think a total of 92 persons were reported for illegal
3 possession of fire-arms, Article 213 in 1992 and 24 persons in 1993, but
4 the crime is committed in 1992.
5 And according to the KTN log-book, the police filed criminal
6 reports against 21 unknown perpetrators in 1992. Five unknown
7 perpetrators in 1993 for crimes committed in 1992. And in six of the
8 unknown perpetrator cases reported in 1992, the victim was a non-Serb.
9 And only two of the unknown perpetrator cases reported in 1993 was the
10 victim -- again, crimes committed in 1992, was the victim a non-Serb.
11 No criminal charges against Serbs for war crimes committed in
13 Q. And those are the statistics you found from going through the
14 books, are they, Judge Peric?
15 A. Yes, that's correct. I perused all the log-books and the result
16 was as we've seen.
17 Q. Right.
18 MS. KORNER: Your Honours, may I ask that the two KT books --
19 registers, rather, should be exhibited together.
20 JUDGE HALL: Admitted and marked.
21 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P01365. Thank you, Your Honours.
22 MS. KORNER:
23 Q. Now, finally, Judge Peric, this. We've seen that there -- there
24 are some cases where there were Serb perpetrators and it involved
25 non-Serb victims where there prosecutions, investigations and
1 prosecutions. Are you able to say why that was? I mean, the crimes that
2 we've seen are, I suppose, in terms of what you've described happening in
3 Teslic in your report much less, but why were these people prosecuted and
4 others not?
5 A. I think that the people processed were criminals of classical
6 type so to speak, and in the case where the people weren't prosecuted,
7 those were the people either that were under the control of the police or
8 the case was that maybe police didn't want them to be prosecuted. That's
9 the only conclusion I can reach.
10 Q. Yes. Thank you very much, indeed Judge. That's all I ask you.
11 JUDGE HARHOFF: Ms. Korner, before you complete your
12 examination-in-chief, I just sat with one question in relation to the
13 entry that you showed to Judge Peric in respect of the persons who were
14 not prosecuted in 1992 or 1993 but finally were prosecuted and sentenced
15 in 1998 and then subsequently given an amnesty.
16 And my question was, and I apologise for not having picked it up
17 while Judge Peric was giving his testimony, but my question is whether
18 these people who were finally sentenced in 1998 and subsequently given an
19 amnesty were members of the Mice Group.
20 MS. KORNER: Yes. It's entry 160, Your Honour, at page 20 in
22 Q. And Judge, if can you go back to that, 05049625 --
23 JUDGE HARHOFF: You don't have to do that. Just let me confirm
24 with Judge Peric that, indeed, these people who were not prosecuted in
25 1992 or 1993 but were finally prosecuted in 1998, and then subsequently
1 given an amnesty, that they were indeed members of the Mice Group.
2 Judge can you confirm this.
3 MS. KORNER: I don't think so.
4 Q. Judge, were these people at 160, were they members of the
5 Mice Group? Maybe they were actually. I have to go back to the name.
6 A. No. The men under 160 were not members of the Mice. This is a
7 group of criminals who were registered as habitual offenders. So common
8 criminals. They were not in any way related to the Mice Group.
9 JUDGE HARHOFF: Thank you, Judge.
10 MS. KORNER:
11 Q. Thank you again, Judge.
12 JUDGE HALL: Cross-examination.
13 Cross-examination by Mr. Cvijetic:
14 Q. [Interpretation] Mr. Peric, good day to you.
15 A. Good day.
16 Q. My name is Slobodan Cvijetic. I represent, among others,
17 Mr. Mico Stanisic, the accused here.
18 Before we start discussing specific issues, I would like to start
19 by asking you a few questions concerning your appointment to the position
20 of public prosecutor.
21 Could you please tell us, based on which decision by which organ
22 you became the public prosecutor in Teslic?
23 A. It was a specific situation. It was not according to the law. I
24 left Brod on the 3rd or the 4th of March, because I lived in
25 Bosanski Brod, and with the start of the war, I moved to Teslic, because
1 I was born in the surroundings of Teslic. And at about 20th of May a
2 prosecutor from Teslic left and the prosecutor's office was left without
3 a prosecutor. The president of the executive board who knew me and who
4 knew that I was in Teslic asked me to take over this position. He
5 explained that the institution suddenly didn't have a prosecutor and that
6 the government need to do something about it. He asked -- he told me
7 that they would make an appointment and that he will arrange it with the
8 parliament that the parliament later approves of my appointment.
9 So it was on the basis of a decision by the Executive Board that
10 I became the prosecutor there. I don't know whether I was also given
11 some kind of work obligation or assigned a work assignment, because
12 everyone in Teslic did have. But I was appointed based on a decision by
13 the Executive Board, and I was appointed only later, in August, by the
14 National Assembly and according to the legal procedure at the time.
15 Q. It was a situation that was not in keeping with the law and that
16 was forced by the circumstances of Teslic at the time. Am I not right?
17 A. Yes, you're right.
18 Q. I'm saying this and what I mean by it is that there was no
19 communication with a central authority. Are you -- do you agree with me?
20 A. What central organs do you refer to? We did have communications
21 with Banja Luka and with Pale, but the connection with -- the
22 communication with Doboj, I think, at the time, was not functioning.
23 Q. I can show you a document and then we can elaborate.
24 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I would like to ask
25 for 1D03-3322 to be put on the screen.
2 Q. I apologise, Mr. Peric. Do you have the
3 registrator [as interpreted]? It's in this binder, can you find it under
5 A. What we have here is a 1996 document. It's a decision on the
6 termination of my post.
7 Q. Just give us a moment. We'll try and find it. I don't think
8 we've -- it's the right document in the B/C/S version.
9 THE REGISTRAR: Can counsel please repeat the number again,
10 please. Thanks.
11 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] 1D03-3322.
12 Q. I think that we have the right document now.
13 Mr. Peric, in this document, we can see it's a decision stating
14 that your employment in the public prosecutor's office is terminated; is
15 that correct?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. And in the statement of reasons, we can see that you were
18 appointed on the 21st of May, 1992, by the --
19 A. Executive Committee.
20 Q. And in the second paragraph of the statement of reason, one can
21 read that the National Assembly, at its session of 14 June 1995, adopted
22 a decision relieving you of this duty; is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And below that, you can see the answer to your query whether you
25 were also under work assignment, because here we can see that you had
1 your work assignment or work obligation and that it was in the
2 prosecutor's office.
3 A. Yes, it says here so.
4 Q. What we cannot see from this decision is the following. Whether
5 you were, were you at all, appointed formally to this position of public
6 prosecutor. Would you agree with me that it cannot be seen from this
8 A. Yes it cannot be seen in this document. I do know that I was
9 appointed, I think it was in August. It was by the decree of the Serbian
10 Presidency of Bosnia and Herzegovina. I remember having taken my oath in
11 the district court in Doboj.
12 Q. Let me assist with you this. So you agree that, throughout this
13 period, we have had a legally irregular situation with you. From the
14 time of your appointment by the Executive Committee until the time you
15 were appointed by the relevant state organ?
16 A. If one views it formally, yes. My appointment wasn't done
17 according to the law.
18 Q. Since we're discussing this Executive Committee, could you please
19 tell me what power the local authorities had at the time, and I
20 specifically mean Crisis Staffs. What were their powers?
21 A. I think they had the crucial power. I think they had the main
22 power vested in them.
23 Q. Thank you. You will then agree with me that the result of such a
24 role of this was your appointment for public prosecutor in the
25 municipality of Teslic?
1 A. Yeah. Well, this was their decision.
2 Q. Thank you. Let us now resolve this issue of when was it that you
3 were actually appointed so that the Trial Chamber is informed of that as
5 Let us go back to document 872.
6 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] That's from 65 ter list of the
7 Prosecutor. It is tab number 84, I apologise; but 84 from the binder of
8 Prosecutor's materials. I apologise, I failed to switch my mic on.
9 I would like to ask the Court Officer whether you've managed to
10 find this document, number 84? Okay.
11 Q. Mr. Peric, this is a report you've discussed with the Prosecutor
12 a moment ago. This is your report on the crime situation; is that
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. You're stating in the second paragraph, referring to a decision
16 of appointment by the Presidency of the Serbian Republic
17 the number and the date. And yes, you're right, the date is the 23rd of
18 August, 1992.
19 Can you see that?
20 A. Yes, that's correct.
21 Q. Thank you. So we've resolved that issue. Yet I think you would
22 agree with me, the appointment of -- by the Presidency is, again, a
23 result of the situation; namely, the immediate threat of war, because at
24 times like that, at times when the Assembly cannot convene, the
25 Presidency was the organ that took over some of the Assembly's duties.
1 Do you agree?
2 A. No I don't think that is correct. I think the Assembly was the
3 body appointing or electing the officials and then the Presidency would
4 be actually just appointing them.
5 Q. Fine. But it was in August 1992?
6 A. Yes, that's correct.
7 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, before we move to
8 the next document, this previous document, since the witness identified;
9 namely, it's the document concerning his appointment, I would like to ask
10 for it to be entered into evidence. It's 1D03-3322.
11 JUDGE HALL: This hasn't been previously exhibited?
12 Yes, well, admitted and marked.
13 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit 1D00274. Thank you, Your Honours.
14 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Thank you.
15 Q. Mr. Peric, since we have this report which is still on the
16 screen, and before we remove it, could you help me just with one issue.
17 I cannot see from this report whom it was addressed to? I don't see a
18 date, the date of its drafting?
19 A. This is a separate document. There was another cover page. It
20 would include my KTA number and the date of submitting.
21 Q. So you would agree with me that one cannot conclude from the
22 document itself, neither to whom it was addressed, nor the date when it
23 was drafted?
24 A. I can confirm that it was sent to the Municipal Assembly and most
25 probably in early October, because it was for the two-months period.
1 Q. You mean the Municipal Assembly of Teslic? Am I right?
2 A. Yes, of course.
3 Q. Thank you very much.
4 Mr. Peric, let us move to a different topic. Let us briefly
5 discuss constitutional and legal position of the public prosecutor as a
6 member of the judicial system within Republika Srpska at the time, and
7 maybe the best starting point for this exercise would be to take a look
8 at how the constitution of the Republika Srpska defines your position.
9 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have Exhibit P181.
10 Q. You will find it under tab 24 in the binder that you have there.
11 Just tell me when you have the document in front of you.
12 A. Yes, yes, please. Which article?
13 Q. A bit of patience, please. I first must inform the Trial Chamber
14 where it is.
15 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Could we please go to page 10 of
16 the B/C/S and page 21 of the English version.
17 Q. Specifically, we are interested in Article 133. I believe we
18 have it already.
19 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Just scroll down in the English
21 Q. Mr. Peric.
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. This says literally that:
24 "The office of the public prosecutor is an independent state
25 agency prosecuting perpetrators of criminal offences and other punishable
1 acts specified by law, and applies legal remedies in order to protect...
3 Is that correct?
4 A. Yes.
5 Q. So the constitution briefly but effectively defines the role of
6 the public prosecutor, tasking him or her with taking action against
7 perpetrators of criminal and other offences.
8 A. I believe this is pretty unclear what is meant by taking action
9 against or persecuting, as it says here in the English, because if we
10 look at the Law on -- on Interior Affairs.
11 Q. Mr. Peric, please allow me to ask my questions. We are now
12 interpreting the constitution and we are arguing that this is not precise
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. Then let us look at the decision on the basic organisation and
16 the seats of public prosecutor's offices.
17 Let us see document 1D03-3318.
18 MS. KORNER: Sorry, Your Honours before -- before we come off
19 this document, Judge Peric wanted to say something about the Law on
20 Internal Affairs and was cut off. I think he ought to be allowed to
21 answer it if it's on the point of the question he was being asked.
22 JUDGE HALL: Yes. We would have -- this issue would have arisen
23 yesterday. Yes, the witness should be permitted and -- complete his
24 answer, Mr. Cvijetic.
25 Judge Peric --
1 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] With your leave Your Honours, the
2 Law on Internal Affairs is an exhibit on my list already, and I will
3 discuss it with the witness but in a way and at the time I decide in my
4 cross-examination. I will proceed in my sequence, and I will reach the
5 Law on Internal Affairs yet. It is it contained in the binder which is
6 in front of the witness.
7 MS. KORNER: It may be so --
8 JUDGE HALL: Except, Mr. Cvijetic, that if either in
9 examination-in-chief or in cross-examination, a witness is asked a
10 question and gives an answer, unless he is wondering off into
11 irrelevancies, and that is something to which the Chamber would be alive,
12 he should, as a matter of courtesy, be permitted to complete his answer.
13 And to cut off a witness in mid-sentence is simply not proper. And I
14 think that is the point that Ms. Korner was making. As I said, it is
15 with which -- which arose yesterday, as recently as yesterday.
16 I was about to ask the witness whether he remembers now the
17 question that he was seeking to answer when the -- when this interruption
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I wanted to explain the
20 position of the public prosecutor's office and the bodies of the Ministry
21 of Interior, that is, the police.
22 It says here in the constitution that the public prosecutor's
23 task is to prosecute the perpetrators of crimes --
24 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please slow down and start
1 JUDGE HALL: Judge Peric, the interpreters are having difficulty
2 keeping up with you, so if you would be so kind as to slow down in your
3 response. Thank you.
4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I will repeat.
5 I wanted to explain the position of the public prosecutor and the
6 bodies of the -- of Internal Affairs, that is the police.
7 Under the Law on Criminal Procedure, the bodies of Internal
8 Affairs were duty-bound to identify perpetrators of crimes and collect
9 evidence and that is their crucial role; whereas, the prosecutor was
10 duty-bound to launch a judicial proceedings based on that, and that is
11 the distinction between the prosecutor and the police.
12 JUDGE HALL: Thank you.
13 Yes, Mr. Cvijetic, please continue.
14 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, both pieces of
15 legislation that the witness mentioned, I was going to put to him anyway.
16 But you have anticipated my questions. Very well.
17 I asked for document 1D03-3318 to be displayed. That's under
18 tab 26.
19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, all right. You can ask your
21 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation]
22 Q. Just bear with us. We have to see it on our screens first.
23 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] I know that the translation of
24 this document was pending. I'm not sure whether it is finished. Let us
25 just check whether we have an English version available.
1 If this is the English version, please show us the heading of the
2 document. Let's scroll up. Is it this document? Yes. Well, we're
3 interested in Article 2. We can see it on both versions?
4 Q. Mr. Peric, the constitutional position of the public prosecutor's
5 office is also defined by the decision on the main principles of the
6 organisation, seat, and it's the territory of the public prosecutor's
7 offices in the very way I said. But it is an autonomous state body which
8 prosecute the perpetrators of crimes and other offences punishable by
9 law -- by law, et cetera. Are you saying that --
10 THE INTERPRETER: Could counsel please repeat his last question.
11 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Cvijetic, the interpreters did not get your
12 last question. So if you would be good enough to repeat it.
13 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation]
14 Q. Mr. Peric, it seems to me that this decision and Article 2
15 defines the position of the public prosecutor's office rather clearly. I
16 fail to see what is unclear here.
17 A. I suppose that this definition was taken over. This isn't any
18 matter of organisational nature, so I don't see your point, but possibly
19 this is a definition from the law. I am not denying that it is contained
20 in this decision.
21 Q. It was taken over from the Law on Public Prosecutor's offices of
22 the Socialist Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina which was applied based on
23 the Constitutional Law for the Implementation of the Constitution of the
24 Republika Srpska in which there was a provision, and you know that, to
25 the effect that, in the RS until the adoption of relevant laws and other
1 pieces of legislation, the laws and regulations of the Socialist Republic
2 of Bosnia-Herzegovina are to be applied if they are in accordance with
3 the constitution, et cetera.
4 You know of this provision of the constitutional law by which the
5 laws and regulations of the former Socialist Republic of BiH were taken
6 over; right?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Well, then you have to agree with me when I say that the
9 constitutional position of the public prosecutor in the RS is defined in
10 the same way as it was in the Socialist Republic of BiH; correct?
11 A. I can agree to that.
12 JUDGE DELVOIE: Mr. Cvijetic, this line of question, has it a
13 special -- a specific purpose in regard to this witness, or is this just
14 a repetition of what we heard over and over again, in the -- in the
15 recent past?
16 JUDGE HALL: And before you attempt to answer Judge Delvoie's
17 question, I would add a subquestion of my own: Is there no -- is --
18 there's no controversy, is there, as to the fact that the witness was in
19 post in this legal public office performing the duties at the relevant
21 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, so far, we've only
22 had the Constitutional Law About the Implementation of the Constitution,
23 and we are referring to it often. But, now, for the first time, we meet
24 regulations dealing with the work of the public prosecutor, which has not
25 been the case so far, and we haven't had a public prosecutor yet either,
1 so it's important for us define the position of the public prosecutor and
2 the relations between him and the Internal Affairs; that is, the police.
3 That is a relevant fact in this trial. Because the Defence does not
4 fully agree with the definition of the relationship existing between the
5 police and the public prosecutor's office as it was defined by the
6 witness in his statement given to the Prosecution, which is part of the
7 OTP set of evidence.
8 JUDGE HALL: May I suggest, Mr. Cvijetic, that it would be more
9 helpful to the Trial Chamber if you were to proceed directly with your
10 challenge to the witness as to how, as I understand what you have just
11 said, he misapprehended or misappreciated the nature of his work in
12 relation to other relevant agencies. Because otherwise it appears that
13 we're heading down a -- either a -- into a purely academic exercise or
14 the Chamber is being drawn into making a ruling on different
15 interpretations of Bosnian law which we are certainly not competent to
17 So if I understand your right, perhaps you should proceed
18 directly to your challenge of the witness as to how he did perform his
19 duties while he was in post.
20 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I want to do all
21 that, but I cannot before I provide references and show the laws and
22 regulations, to set a foundation for the position of the Defence.
23 I would first like to tender this decision into evidence because
24 the witness clearly recognised the document establishing the organisation
25 of the public prosecutor's offices.
1 So let me repeat, 1D03-3318.
2 [Trial Chamber confers]
3 JUDGE HALL: Wouldn't this be a matter for the law library rather
4 than being tendered as an exhibit, as a specific exhibit, Mr. Cvijetic?
5 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, this is a very brief
6 decision, and it is -- it's a fact that only Article 2 is relevant on
7 occasion of this testimony.
8 I will also volunteer my personal opinion. I'm a pessimist with
9 regard to the outlook of establishing this law library, so I would really
10 prefer this to be tendered or admitted into evidence.
11 JUDGE HALL: As you say, it's a short decision so we'd mark it as
12 an exhibit, Mr. Cvijetic.
13 THE REGISTRAR: As exhibit number 1D00275. Thank you, Your
15 MR. CVIJETIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, the following
16 document is an exhibit I wanted to show to the witness. He has already
17 referred to it. It requires more time for me to deal with it, so with
18 your leave, I propose that I continue with this document tomorrow.
19 Because I might be able, just to finish one paragraph, and that is, I
20 believe, not a good approach.
21 We're nearing 7.00 anyway.
22 JUDGE HALL: Judge Peric, the Chamber is about to conclude its
23 sitting for the day. We will resume, as I indicated to you earlier, at
24 9.00 our time tomorrow morning. And I am obliged to caution you,
25 although having regard to your own profession you will readily appreciate
1 this, but having been sworn as a witness you cannot discuss your
2 testimony with anyone outside -- your testimony before the Tribunal
3 with -- with other persons.
4 So thank you, sir. We will resume at 9.00 tomorrow morning.
5 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 6.55 p.m.
6 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 20th day of May,
7 2010, at 9.00 a.m.