1 Wednesday, 28 January 2004
2 [Further Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 11.53 a.m.
6 JUDGE ORIE: Mr. Registrar, could you please call the case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. This is case number
8 IT-03-72-I, the Prosecutor versus Milan Babic.
9 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you very much, Mr. Registrar.
10 First of all, good morning to everyone in this courtroom and also
11 to those who are assisting us just outside this courtroom.
12 Mr. Babic, can you hear me in a language you understand?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour.
14 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, Mr. Babic.
15 May I have the appearances for the Prosecution first.
16 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Good morning, Your Honours. For the
17 Prosecution, Ms. Bauer, Ms. Walpita, and my name is Hildegard
19 JUDGE ORIE: Thank you, madam.
20 For the Defence?
21 MR. MUELLER: Good morning, Your Honours. Mr. Robert Fogelnest,
22 co-counsel, Mr. Danilo Cirkovic, case manager, and Peter Michael Mueller.
23 JUDGE ORIE: Yesterday we have heard a guilty plea on Count 1
24 entered by Mr. Babic, and the Chamber has taken a short while to consider
25 that guilty plea. We have considered whether the guilty plea has been
1 made voluntarily, whether the guilty plea was informed, whether the
2 guilty plea was not equivocal, whether there was a sufficient factual
3 basis for the crime and the participation of you, Mr. Babic, in that
5 This Chamber accepts your plea. It is a plea entered on Count 1
6 only, but on the basis of the plea agreement the Chamber expects the
7 Prosecution now the plea has been accepted to withdraw Counts 2 and
9 Could you confirm that.
10 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Yes, Your Honour. The Prosecution withdraws
11 the other counts in the indictment.
12 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Of course, we'll deal with that in a more
13 formal way in the days to come, but the Chamber gives its consent to the
14 withdrawal of the other counts.
15 That means that only Count 1 remains at this moment on which the
16 Chamber will decide.
17 And may I invite you, Mr. Babic, to stand.
18 [The accused stands up]
19 Mr. Babic, this Chamber finds you guilty on Count 1 of the
20 indictment issued on the 6th of November, 2003, persecutions on
21 political, racial, and religious grounds, a crime against humanity
22 punishable under Articles 5(h) and 7(1) of the Statute of this Tribunal.
23 The Chamber adds to it that this crime was within the objective of the
24 joint criminal enterprise of which you were a co-perpetrator.
25 Please be seated.
1 [The accused sits down]
2 The next steps to take is to instruct the registrar to set a day
3 for sentencing. The registrar will do so after having consulted the
4 Chamber. A provisional schedule for that has already been discussed. I
5 do understand that the parties would agree on a sentencing hearing on the
6 1st and 2nd of April and the filing of sentencing briefs on the 22nd, if
7 I'm not mistaken, of March.
8 I'd just like to seek confirmation by the parties that two days
9 for a sentencing hearing would be sufficient. The 1st and the 2nd of
10 April is a Thursday and a Friday, and the Chamber would avoid to have to
11 adjourn on Friday in the afternoon and to continue Monday morning. So,
12 therefore, I'd like to hear from the parties how much time they would
13 need for the sentencing hearing and the presentation of the evidence they
14 would like to present at that moment.
15 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honours, for the Prosecution -- the
16 Defence and the Prosecution have actually identified two joint witnesses
17 and -- which is one for the witness -- the victim's impact and the other
18 one is actually the investigator who dealt with Mr. Babic. These are the
19 two witnesses that we have identified. The Prosecution would not present
20 any more witnesses. We would file a few 92 bis witnesses from the crime
22 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
23 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: That's all. So these two witnesses, it's
24 hard to estimate it right now, but I think it would only take about one
1 JUDGE ORIE: One session for the witnesses. Of course, 92 bis,
2 would there be any request for cross-examination for these 92 bis
4 MR. MUELLER: I don't think so, Your Honour.
5 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
6 MR. MUELLER: I don't think so, Your Honour.
7 May I add to that?
8 JUDGE ORIE: Yes, please.
9 MR. MUELLER: I find myself in a very difficult position to
10 predict how much time we would like to have and we would need. But
11 let's -- let me say it the other way around. I would think that we
12 should not exceed two sessions as envisaged by this time schedule. And
13 if you are satisfied with that message, then I would appreciate it for
14 the time being, because I'm really not ready yet to tell you precisely
15 what we envisage. And my personal idea is that it cannot be excluded
16 that we have to approach Prosecution again and say there is a witness
17 which we would like to present to the Tribunal, and in case of we try to
18 do that, perhaps as a joint witness.
19 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. That means that for the time being there's no
20 necessity to schedule for more than two days. And as the parties have
21 been aware of in this case, that sometimes if needed a scheduling order
22 can be changed or amended. But then I'd like to hear from the party who
23 wishes to take more time to give notice well in advance so that the new
24 scheduling order could be issued.
25 Yes, Mr. Mueller.
1 MR. MUELLER: Thank you, Your Honour. Of course we will stick
2 with that.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
4 MR. MUELLER: And it's a matter of self-understanding that as far
5 as we know something, we will communicate that to the Tribunal, of
7 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. Thank you.
8 Is there any other issue at this moment that the parties would
9 like to raise?
10 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: Your Honours, I just want to mention that we
11 had actually this morning filed a joint motion with the materials that
12 you requested yesterday.
13 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. I --
14 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: And that's all. Thank you.
15 JUDGE ORIE: The Chamber has received copies of that material,
16 although not with the formal confirmation of filing, but orally we were
17 informed that they were filed. And it would -- oh, I see now that
18 there's the confirmation of the filing as well. But under the present
19 circumstances, the Chamber looked into the materials. We have perhaps
20 not read every single letter of it, but we got an impression. And when
21 we asked to present this material, it was already in the back of our
22 minds that it might well serve for sentencing as well.
23 Any other issue to be raised?
24 MS. UERTZ-RETZLAFF: No, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE ORIE: Yes.
2 MR. MUELLER: No, Your Honours.
3 JUDGE ORIE: Yes. We then stay adjourned and in due course a
4 scheduling order, presumably for the 1st and the 2nd of April, will be
6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.03 p.m.