Page 19914
1 Wednesday, 23 July 2003
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.02 a.m.
5 JUDGE AGIUS: So, Madam Registrar, could you call the case,
6 please?
7 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. Good morning, Your Honours.
8 This is the case number IT-99-36-T, the Prosecutor versus Radoslav
9 Brdjanin.
10 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, madam. Mr. Brdjanin, can you follow
11 the proceedings in a language that you can understand?
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good morning. Yes, I can follow in
13 a language I understand.
14 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you.
15 Appearances for the Prosecution.
16 MR. KOUMJIAN: Good morning, Your Honours. Nicholas Koumjian and
17 Denise Gustin.
18 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you.
19 Appearances for Radoslav Brdjanin.
20 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Good morning, Your Honours. David Cunningham
21 with Aleksandar Vujic.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: I thank you, and good morning to you too.
23 Any preliminaries? Yes.
24 MR. KOUMJIAN: I would just advise Your Honours, I did not
25 interview, but I spoke briefly to the witness yesterday.
Page 19915
1 JUDGE AGIUS: You are withdrawing him?
2 MR. KOUMJIAN: No. I don't know if we need to go into private
3 session for this.
4 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session.
5 [Private session]
6 (Redacted)
7 (Redacted)
8 (Redacted)
9 (Redacted)
10 (Redacted)
11 (Redacted)
12 (Redacted)
13 (Redacted)
14 (Redacted)
15 (Redacted)
16 (Redacted)
17 (Redacted)
18 (Redacted)
19 (Redacted)
20 (Redacted)
21 (Redacted)
22 (Redacted)
23 (Redacted)
24 (Redacted)
25 (Redacted)
Page 19916
1 (Redacted)
2 (Redacted)
3 (Redacted)
4 (Redacted)
5 (Redacted)
6 (Redacted)
7 (Redacted)
8 (Redacted)
9 (Redacted)
10 (Redacted)
11 (Redacted)
12 (Redacted)
13 (Redacted)
14 (Redacted)
15 (Redacted)
16 (Redacted)
17 (Redacted)
18 (Redacted)
19 (Redacted)
20 [Closed session]
21 (Redacted)
22 (Redacted)
23 (Redacted)
24 (Redacted)
25 (Redacted)
Page 19917
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 Pages 19917 to 19935 – redacted – closed session.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 19936
1 (Redacted)
2 (Redacted)
3 (Redacted)
4 (Redacted)
5 (Redacted)
6 (Redacted)
7 (Redacted)
8 (Redacted)
9 (Redacted)
10 (Redacted)
11 (Redacted)
12 [Open session]
13 JUDGE AGIUS: -- Or give any indications as to who he could be.
14 Yes, Mr. Koumjian.
15 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, I want to bring to the attention of
16 the Trial Chamber what I feel are inappropriate gestures by the accused,
17 Mr. Brdjanin, when the witness is testifying. I see him several times
18 making a gesture with his hands similar to what I've just done, which
19 would indicate to me that he is indicating some objection to what the
20 witness is testifying to, which I think is -- well, any gesture is
21 inappropriate in this context.
22 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes.
23 Mr. Cunningham, to be truthful, I was not watching your client, so
24 I cannot confirm or pass any judgement on what Mr. Koumjian has just
25 stated. However, there were previous occasions when I did notice some
Page 19937
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 Blank page inserted to ensure pagination corresponds between the French and
13 English transcripts.
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 19938
1 kind of reaction, similar reactions, from your client on other days, so I
2 wouldn't be surprised at all if this is precisely what is happening. In
3 the past I have always asked Mr. Ackerman to address himself straight to
4 the witness -- to the client, and I will leave it entirely in your hands.
5 I mean, you know how to do it, because you are a trained lawyer with a lot
6 of experience behind you, so I'm not interfering with that.
7 MR. CUNNINGHAM: No. I understand that, Your Honour, and I'd like
8 just a minute, if the Court pleases, to do that right now.
9 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes. Thank you.
10 Mr. Vujic, you need to help him, I think.
11 [Defence counsel confer]
12 [Trial Chamber confers with registrar]
13 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Your Honour, I'm in the same position as you. I
14 didn't see any gestures, but what I am told is that he was not trying to
15 make any gestures towards the witness but rather trying to make gestures
16 towards Mr. Vujic. But I've counselled with the accused to --
17 JUDGE AGIUS: It's okay. I'll take your word and your client's
18 word.
19 Mr. Cunningham, I take it that your client will be more careful in
20 trying to attract the attention of Mr. Vujic.
21 MR. CUNNINGHAM: Judge, I've advised him, and I'm not giving away
22 anything with respect to attorney-client privilege, but I've advised him
23 to avoid any gesture that might be interpreted as inappropriate towards
24 the witness or this Court.
25 JUDGE AGIUS: Actually, in this courtroom there is one advantage
Page 19939
1 which you don't find in other courtrooms and that is the proximity of the
2 accused to counsel, which is ideal, right? In other words, Mr. Brdjanin,
3 I'm sure, can call Mr. Vujic, and Mr. Vujic will pay attention or give him
4 attention. But otherwise, any gestures which are uncalled for, please try
5 to avoid, because we can review the video recording and it would involve
6 us in a waste of time, unnecessary waste of time, and possibly undesirable
7 measures that will need to be taken if this is the case. So let's bring
8 the witness in, and I am going to explain -- closed session. Let's go
9 into closed session first.
10 [Closed session]
11 (Redacted)
12 (Redacted)
13 (Redacted)
14 (Redacted)
15 (Redacted)
16 (Redacted)
17 (Redacted)
18 (Redacted)
19 (Redacted)
20 (Redacted)
21 (Redacted)
22 (Redacted)
23 (Redacted)
24 (Redacted)
25 (Redacted)
Page 19940
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12 Pages 19940 to 19996 – redacted – closed session.
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
Page 19997
1 (Redacted)
2 (Redacted)
3 (Redacted)
4 (Redacted)
5 (Redacted)
6 (Redacted)
7 (Redacted)
8 (Redacted)
9 (Redacted)
10 (Redacted)
11 (Redacted)
12 (Redacted)
13 (Redacted)
14 (Redacted)
15 (Redacted)
16 (Redacted)
17 (Redacted)
18 (Redacted)
19 (Redacted)
20 [Open session]
21 JUDGE AGIUS: I wish to once more thank, in open session, the
22 members, the staff members of the interpretation unit and the technical
23 staff, and everyone else who is present in this courtroom. Once more, you
24 have given a very valid contribution to enable a witness to return home
25 earlier than expected and to save this Tribunal valuable resources. And
Page 19998
1 this, by overstaying beyond your contractual time. I wish that this is
2 communicated, both to the head of the unit, respective units, as well as
3 to the President of this Tribunal. I thank you.
4 We stand adjourned until tomorrow morning at 9.00. The idea is
5 now to try to make -- do your best, both of you, to have the next witness
6 finished by Friday, because the next witness was scheduled to go
7 on -- continue on Monday. So if we can send him back home on Friday or
8 Saturday, that would be also a very valid, positive step. Okay?
9 MR. KOUMJIAN: I don't want to take up your time, but I understand
10 that would not help much because we don't have a witness for Monday. But
11 we'll deal with that tomorrow.
12 JUDGE AGIUS: Get the witness or Monday or get something else for
13 Monday. Thank you.
14 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.39 p.m.
15 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 24th day of
16 July 2003, at 9.00 a.m.
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25