071210ED

Page 8

1 Monday, 10 December 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 3.04 p.m.

5 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon, Madam Registrar. Could you call the

6 case, please.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is the

8 contempt case against Dragan Jokic, case number IT-05-88-R77.1-T.

9 JUDGE AGIUS: For the record, the accused is present, as assisted

10 by Madam Isailovic, who is also present.

11 Ms. Isailovic, I understand you have some -- good afternoon to

12 you, first. I understand that you have some evidence that you wish to

13 produce. Which witness would you like to call first?

14 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Mr. President,

15 Your Honours.

16 I would like, first of all, to announce what I have already put in

17 my motion of the 28th of November last, with the exception that I have

18 some alteration to bring to the text. And I would have preferred to do

19 this in a closed -- in private session, because my motion -- in my motion,

20 I had requested some witnesses to be called with the appropriate measures

21 to protect their private life, two witnesses, and I would like to talk

22 about these questions in private session, after which I would have one

23 technical and administrative question to ask, in particular to know how I

24 could organise my examination of these witnesses.

25 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session for a short while,

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1 please.

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11 Pages 10-13 redacted. Private session.

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2 [Open session]

3 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, we are in open session now.

4 Go ahead, Madam Isailovic.

5 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, as we are in open

6 session, would you like me to repeat the name of the expert in question?

7 So I will now call to testify Mrs. Ana Najman, an expert. And

8 prior to that, before her testimony, I would like to ask you a question of

9 an administrative nature, because I intend, during her testimony, to now

10 and again ask for private session. Precisely when the question relating

11 to privacy issues or -- of Mr. Jokic's life, I shall therefore refer to

12 Rule 79 of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence. When I feel that a

13 particular question could have an impact on Mr. Jokic's privacy, then I

14 will ask to move into private session.

15 JUDGE AGIUS: Yes, thank you, Madam Isailovic.

16 [The witness entered court]

17 JUDGE AGIUS: Good afternoon to you, Madam Najman, and welcome to

18 this Tribunal. You have been summoned as an expert witness by the accused

19 in this case, Mr. Jokic, and before we proceed any further with your

20 testimony our Rules require from you to enter a solemn declaration to the

21 effect that in the course of your testimony, you will be speaking the

22 truth and nothing but the truth.

23 The text is going to be handed to you now. Please read it out

24 loud, and that will be your solemn undertaking with us.

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

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1 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

2 WITNESS: ANA NAJMAN

3 [Witness answered through interpreter]

4 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Thank you, madam. Please make yourself

5 comfortable.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.

7 JUDGE AGIUS: You have had an opportunity to visit and talk to the

8 accused, following which you have made available a report, a detailed

9 report, which includes, in its final part, your assessment of the

10 situation, of his condition in particular.

11 The report itself is not in the records as yet, in the sense that

12 it hasn't been tendered by the Defence. We have, however, had an advance

13 copy of it, both in the original language in which it is written and also

14 in English, because we made sure that it was translated in good time

15 before the weekend so that we could study it and be prepared for your

16 testimony today.

17 So the way we suggest we proceed, Madam Isailovic, is as follows:

18 That you tender this report through the witness. Also, her CV I don't

19 think we need because it is attached already to one of your filings, but

20 of course you may inquire about that with the witness. The report itself

21 is pretty much technical, so what I would suggest to you, rather than

22 going into specific details or going through the various parts of the

23 reports, you go straight to the conclusion, you ask the witness to explain

24 to us what her findings are, what her conclusions are, and then of course

25 you will have every opportunity to ask her to explain each and every one

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1 of those conclusions based on her report or on other observations that she

2 may have made.

3 Is that agreeable to you?

4 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

5 I have prepared an outline for my examination, which is very

6 similar to what you have just suggested. Precisely, I wish to avoid too

7 many technical questions, because none of us are experts, we are lay

8 people, and we need explanations for some parts of the report so as to be

9 able to understand what this report is all about.

10 My outline was somewhat different to what you have suggested,

11 because I wanted to, first of all, talk about the resume of the expert and

12 the field of expertise of Mrs. Najman. I would like to show her two

13 documents which are connected to --

14 JUDGE AGIUS: Go ahead.

15 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] And I will talk to Mrs. Najman in

16 B/C/S and address you in English to avoid too many translations getting

17 into the way of each other.

18 Examination by Ms. Isailovic:

19 Q. Good afternoon, Mrs. Najman. At the outset, I will begin with

20 your CV, and I will read for the record the following: Your name is

21 Ana Najman. Can you please confirm that?

22 A. Yes, my name is Ana Najman.

23 Q. You were born on the 25th of March, 1951, in Subotica and you

24 currently reside in Belgrade?

25 A. Yes.

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1 Q. You graduated from the Faculty of Philosophy in Belgrade in 1976.

2 The duration of the studies was four years?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. And then in 1992, you completed your specialist studies in

5 Belgrade at the School of Medical Studies in the field of clinical

6 psychology, and these studies lasted for three years?

7 A. Correct.

8 Q. You have been working since 1978 as a psychologist?

9 A. Since 1976.

10 Q. Yes. And at one point in time, you worked at the Prison Hospital

11 in Belgrade?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Now, just tell me, please, where are you currently employed?

14 A. I have -- I worked in the Prison Hospital for ten years, and I'm

15 currently employed at the clinic for psychiatry called "Dragisa Misovic"

16 in Belgrade. I worked there for ten years. I diagnose all psychiatric

17 states: Neurosis, psychosis, personality disorders and organic disorders.

18 And I do all this within the Clinic for Neurology which also exists in

19 Dragisa Misovic Hospital.

20 Q. In your CV, it says that you served as an expert on a number of

21 occasions, both before The Hague Tribunal and before various courts in

22 Serbia. Could you first confirm this?

23 A. Yes, that's correct. Since 1988, I have served as a permanent

24 forensic expert. I have worked for a number of municipal, district

25 courts, and also the special court in Belgrade, and I have also served as

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1 an expert before this Tribunal in a number of cases.

2 Q. And now I come to the following: Could you please tell us, what

3 is the exact specialty of yours?

4 A. My expertise, my psychological expertise, is in the domain of

5 psychological research of intellectual abilities and personality, and I'm

6 also an expert in assessing to which degree a patient fits in. Also, if

7 the Court so requires, I also place all this in a forensic context.

8 Q. Now, please tell me, when you perform your work, do you do that on

9 your own or do you work within a team?

10 A. I work in a team with one or two psychiatrists, depending on a

11 court order, and in some cases I work on my own, because I don't need a

12 psychiatrist to work. I can work as an independent forensic expert.

13 In more complicated cases, usually psychiatric expertise is

14 required as well, together with a psychological one.

15 Q. Can I conclude, based on that, that you are familiar with various

16 psychiatric illnesses as well as medications for them? Do you have

17 contact with that type of information within the scope of your work?

18 A. Yes, certainly. Teamwork involving a psychiatrist and a

19 psychologist also involves exchange of information that I receive, as a

20 psychologist, including information about illnesses and medication used by

21 a psychiatrist. So this is a sort of interdisciplinary work. I am

22 normally always informed as to whether a patient receives therapy, what

23 kind of therapy, and likewise, I always inform a psychiatrist that I work

24 with about my findings.

25 Q. I'd like to turn to a different topic now which has to do with the

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1 writing of your expert report. I would like you to tell the Trial Chamber

2 what were my requirements of you and what information I provided to you

3 when we first met.

4 A. When we first met, you asked me to write -- or to conduct a

5 psychological expertise, to research the issue of intellectual ability of

6 Mr. Jokic. You also informed me about his current situation; namely, the

7 fact that he's charged with contempt of court. I was not given any other

8 information or any other requests from you on that occasion.

9 Q. Did I perhaps suggest to you to check with the DU prison, what

10 kind of therapy Mr. Jokic received, if any?

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10 JUDGE AGIUS: Okay. Let's redact from line 24 on page 26 right

11 through basically where we stand now. That's line 21 on page 27.

12 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

13 JUDGE AGIUS: If we are continuing on this, Madam Isailovic, we

14 need to go into private session. I don't know what your next question is

15 going to be, but it's up to you to decide.

16 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour. I will ask a

17 few questions, but we don't have to move into private session yet.

18 Q. Mrs. Najman, I don't want you to be confused by this. This was a

19 procedural issue. We will continue. It is very important for the Chamber

20 to know how our cooperation unfolded.

21 Could you please describe it to the Chamber briefly?

22 A. Our cooperation unfolded in the following way: You introduced me

23 to Mr. Jokic at the Detention Unit, and on that occasion I gained a

24 certain impression of him, and I attempted to portray this in my

25 expertise. I can't tell you exactly on which page, but that was in the

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1 beginning of my report. That was a spontaneous interview that we had, and

2 I tried to convey it in -- as closely as possible. And following that, I

3 received information about therapy that he was receiving that was quite

4 increased. Then I had further contacts with Mr. Jokic, and I wrote my

5 psychological expertise report. I sent to you a first draft following

6 that. It was still in the form of a draft. It wasn't finalised, in terms

7 of its form. And then once all of that was completed, I received specific

8 questions from you.

9 Q. And to conclude with this part concerning our cooperation, did I

10 suggest to you what methodology to apply?

11 A. No.

12 Q. Did I suggest to you any possible findings or opinion that you

13 were to give to the Chamber?

14 A. No, absolutely not.

15 MS. ISAILOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, now I have an

16 impression that one should go to private session, because I would like to

17 have these documents shown to the expert witness, and which will be

18 presented under seal.

19 JUDGE AGIUS: Let's go into private session.

20 [Private session]

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11 Pages 36-68 redacted. Private session.