1 Wednesday, 11th July 2007

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 --- Upon commencing at 2.16 p.m.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good afternoon to everybody today.

6 Can we have the appearances for today.

7 I beg your pardon. Can we call the case first.

8 THE REGISTRAR: Thank you.

9 Good afternoon, Your Honours. This is case IT-04-83-T number, the

10 Prosecutor versus Rasim Delic.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

12 Thank you, Mr. Mundis.

13 MR. MUNDIS: Good afternoon, Your Honours, Counsel, and everyone

14 in and around the room. For the Prosecution, Daryl Mundis, Aditya Menon,

15 and our case manager, Alma Imamovic.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: For the Defence?

17 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honours.

18 Vasvija Vidovic and Mr. Nicholas Robson on behalf of the Defence

19 of General Delic, with our assistants, Lejla Gluhic and Asja Zujo.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

21 Mr. Mundis.

22 Before you start, Mr. Mundis, can I just say that we've agreed on

23 the Bench that we will sit for one and a quarter hours, that is, from now

24 until half past 3.00, and then take a 30-minute break, and it will go on

25 like that; one and a quarter hours, 30 minutes' break.

1 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you very much, Your Honour.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: You're welcome.

3 MR. MUNDIS: The Prosecution calls Sinan Begovic.

4 [The witness entered court]

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the witness read the declaration.

6 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will speak

7 the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.

8 WITNESS: SINAN BEGOVIC

9 [Witness answered through interpreter]

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. You may be seated, sir.

11 Mr. Mundis.

12 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Your Honours.

13 Examination by Mr. Mundis:

14 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Begovic.

15 A. Good afternoon.

16 Q. For the record, sir, could you please state your name, date of

17 birth, and place of birth?

18 A. My name is Sinan Begovic. I was born on the 9th of January, 1966.

19 Q. And your place of birth, sir?

20 A. Suhi Dol, Travnik Municipality.

21 Q. Mr. Begovic, to the best of your recollection, when did the war

22 begin in Bosnia and Herzegovina?

23 A. Well, in our area, which is that of Central Bosnia, that was more

24 or less -- I mean, these problems cropped up around April; whereas, in

25 other places, there had been problems before that, in 1992.

1 Q. And, sir, in April 1992, where were you living?

2 A. I was living in my village, the village of Suhi Dol.

3 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber, sir, what steps, if any, the

4 villagers of Suhi Dol took in order to defend themselves in April 1992?

5 A. Well, we were in a place where there were no combat operations at

6 all in that period. I'm not quite sure of what month this was in, but the

7 only thing which happened was that the MUP of Travnik and the reserve

8 police force were maintaining the relay up there on Vlasic. And the VRS

9 forces took it from them by force, and this was all as far as fighting was

10 concerned in that period in that area.

11 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, just for purposes of clarification, can you

12 please tell the Trial Chamber what the MUP was or is?

13 A. It was the police.

14 Q. And, sir, you've made reference to the VRS forces. Can you,

15 again, explain what the VRS forces were?

16 A. Well, the Serbs. We called them the Serbian forces, the Serb

17 forces.

18 Q. Were these Serb forces from Serbia or from Bosnia?

19 A. I don't know.

20 Q. Okay. And, again, one last clarification. When you make

21 reference to Vlasic, can you tell the Trial Chamber what Vlasic refers to?

22 A. That is a mountain which is -- rises above our village, and this

23 relay was the most salient feature on Mount Vlasic.

24 Q. Do you know what kind of relay it was?

25 A. It was a relay for communication purposes.

1 Q. Now, moving, sir, into the summer of 1992 --

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I interrupt you just before you go into the

3 summer of 1992, Mr. Mundis, and I'm sorry to do this for you, but for my

4 own clarification: What is meant by a relay in this context?

5 MR. MUNDIS: Would you like the witness to answer that, Your

6 Honours?

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please.

8 MR. MUNDIS:

9 Q. Sir, if you can, can you explain what a relay -- a communications

10 relay is?

11 A. It was both for communication and for television purposes, a

12 relaying device through which the signal went.

13 Q. Mr. Begovic, would it be correct to say that there's a large

14 antenna complex on the top of Mount Vlasic which served as this relay,

15 this communication relay platform?

16 A. Yes. Yes, probably something like that. It was for television

17 and also for communications generally.

18 Q. Moving, Mr. Begovic, to the summer of 1992, can you tell us what

19 steps, if any, were taken at that point in time among the villagers of

20 Suhi Dol to defend yourselves?

21 A. Well, we were not attacked. Our village was not attacked, but the

22 other villages that were in the area surrounding Vlasic were.

23 Q. And what steps, if any, were taken in Suhi Dol as a result of the

24 attacks in the surrounding villages?

25 A. Well, we were afraid for our safety, and we started to

1 self-organise. We organised some guards initially.

2 Q. During the course of the second half of 1992, did this local guard

3 evolve into any other type of organised unit?

4 A. We received, from someone from Travnik, instructions, I believe,

5 that we were supposed to make a list of all the able-bodied men and to

6 make some sort of -- compose some sort of a company.

7 Q. And, in fact, did you create such a company among the villagers of

8 Suhi Dol?

9 A. Yes. We did form a company, but it was more on paper than in

10 practice.

11 Q. Can you tell me, Mr. Begovic, or tell the Trial Chamber what the

12 Ljuta Greda Detachment was?

13 A. Well, the Ljuta Greda Detachment was formed later, comprising

14 three companies. It was formed off three companies: The Suhi Dol, the

15 Dub, and the Visnjevo companies. They were actually directed towards the

16 area of Vlasic.

17 Q. Approximately, when was the Ljuta Greda Detachment formed?

18 A. I don't know the exact date.

19 Q. Can you give an approximation in terms of the month or month and

20 year?

21 A. I'm not sure whether it was at the end of 1992 or in the beginning

22 of 1993. I really cannot recall.

23 Q. Mr. Begovic, can you explain to the Trial Chamber the geographic

24 area known as the Han Bila Valley?

25 A. Well, up there, up to Vlasic, there were five or six villages

1 which were purely Muslim; then down from Mehurici, there were mixed

2 villages. There was Haman, a Muslim village, and then there was another

3 one which was a Croat village, inhabited by Croats, I mean.

4 Q. Mr. Begovic, where, if you could tell us, where is the Han Bila

5 Valley in relation to these locations you've just mentioned?

6 A. I did not understand the question.

7 Q. Where is the Han Bila Valley?

8 A. That is the part which I just described. So we belong to that

9 valley, the name of which was Han Bila Valley, and it was named after the

10 River Bila which flows through that part.

11 Q. Returning, sir, to the Ljuta Greda Detachment, do you recall who

12 was the commander of that unit?

13 A. It was Munir Kadic, I think.

14 Q. Can you recall for how long the Ljuta Greda Detachment was in

15 existence?

16 A. No. Not with precision, no.

17 Q. Did the Ljuta Greda Detachment later become incorporated into

18 another unit?

19 A. Well, yes. Later, when the 306th Brigade was formed, it came to

20 be incorporated into that brigade, the 306th Brigade.

21 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber about the structure of the 306th

22 Mountain Brigade, or Brigade?

23 A. It was established of two or three detachments. I know that the

24 negotiations with the view to the forming of that brigade were quite

25 lengthy, because some wanted it and some did not want it, and there was

1 some haggling over that.

2 Q. Do you know approximately when the 306th Brigade was formed?

3 A. No, I don't know the exact period.

4 Q. Can you give us --

5 A. It was certainly 1993.

6 Q. Can you give us an approximate time period in 1993 when the 306th

7 Brigade was formed?

8 A. Well, sometime around mid-year. I can't be sure.

9 Q. Do you know, sir, who was the commander of the 306th Brigade?

10 A. The commander of the 306th Brigade was Commander Sipic, I think.

11 I'm not quite sure what his last name is.

12 Q. Can you tell us, sir, if you know, where the 306th Brigade was

13 headquartered?

14 A. The headquarters of the 306th was on Rudnik.

15 Q. Did the 306th Brigade have any battalions as part of that brigade?

16 A. Well, it should have had battalions. Yes, that must have been the

17 case.

18 Q. Do you know how many battalions the 306th Brigade had in 1993?

19 A. I don't know exactly.

20 Q. Do you know where any of the battalions of the 306th Brigade were

21 located in 1993?

22 A. The battalions did not have a permanent place. The people would

23 stay at their homes, and only when they were supposed to go to the front

24 would they meet at a meeting point about which they would agree

25 beforehand.

1 Q. Are you familiar, sir, with the primary school in the village of

2 Mehurici?

3 A. Yes. Yes, I am.

4 Q. In the first half of 1993, were any military units located in the

5 primary school in the village of Mehurici?

6 A. Well, there were some segments of the 306th Brigade and perhaps

7 some sort of a command, I don't know what; and then there was a group of

8 Arabs in the school.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I ask a question?

10 What was the name of the primary school?

11 THE WITNESS: Mehurici, it was also called, the Mehurici Primary

12 School. I don't know of any other name.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

14 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Your Honour.

15 Q. Mr. Begovic, how many primary schools were located in the village

16 of Mehurici?

17 A. There was just this one.

18 Q. Now, you've mentioned a group of Arabs in the school. Do you

19 recall, Mr. Begovic, the first time you saw any Arabs in or around the

20 primary school in Mehurici?

21 A. Well, it was perhaps May or June 1992. I'm not quite sure of the

22 exact date or the exact month, but I'm sure it was in 1992.

23 Q. Do you know, approximately, how many Arabs were in the school in

24 Mehurici in May or June 1992?

25 A. Between five and ten, or perhaps not even that many. Five or six.

1 Q. Moving into the first half of 1993, Mr. Begovic, were there still

2 Arabs in and around the school in Mehurici?

3 A. Well, there were still some at the school, but there was also a

4 group near Mehurici in two or three abandoned Serb houses.

5 Q. We'll get to those Arabs in the abandoned houses in just a moment,

6 sir, but let me ask you: With respect to the first half of 1993, do you

7 know, approximately, how many Arabs were in the school in Mehurici in

8 early 1993?

9 A. I don't know exactly. I don't know the exact number. They were

10 still there, but I don't know the exact number.

11 Q. What were the Arabs who were in the school in Mehurici doing in

12 late 1992 and early 1993?

13 A. I don't know concretely what they did at the school. I know that

14 on a couple of instances there was a training for some persons; and

15 thereafter, after ten or 15 days of training, they distributed weapons to

16 some people without any obligations.

17 Q. When you say "training," Mr. Begovic, can you tell the Trial

18 Chamber what type of training?

19 A. It was, you know, fitness training or perhaps also some religious

20 instruction, but there was nothing very specific in the beginning.

21 Q. What type of clothing did the Arabs who were in the school in

22 Mehurici wear in late 1992 and early 1993?

23 A. Well, some wore Afghan caps or suits --

24 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter is not quite sure.

25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- and then there were also some

1 others who were in camouflage garb.

2 MR. MUNDIS:

3 Q. Did any of the Arabs that you saw in and around the school in

4 Mehurici in late 1992 and early 1993 carry weapons?

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I apologise for

7 interrupting. It is the translation. Asked by the Prosecutor what kind

8 of clothes they were wearing, the witness said, "Afganke," which means

9 suits, not caps. It is a type of uniform. It is a type of attire. So I

10 should like this question to be clarified with the witness, because this

11 interpretation is obviously incorrect.

12 MR. MUNDIS:

13 Q. Let's return, then, Mr. Begovic, to the type of clothing that the

14 Arabs were wearing that you saw in the Mehurici school or in the immediate

15 area in late 1992 and 1993. What type of clothing were they wearing?

16 A. Well, what I called "Afganke," this was a loose attire with quite

17 a loose shirt up, and in the bottom are loose pants. I hope you

18 understood me.

19 Q. You also told us there were others in camouflage garb. Can you

20 describe what you meant by "camouflage garb"?

21 A. Well, this was camouflage attire which only started to appear at

22 that time. Some people had bought them -- bought it themselves because we

23 didn't have it before that. Nobody had it before that.

24 Q. Were any of the Arabs that you observed in or in the immediate

25 vicinity of the Mehurici school in late 1992 and early 1993 carrying

1 weapons?

2 A. I don't remember. I don't know.

3 Q. Let's turn, then, Mr. Begovic, to what you told us was two or

4 three abandoned Serb houses and focus our attention on that location.

5 Can you tell the Trial Chamber when you first became aware that

6 there were Arabs in these abandoned Serb houses?

7 A. I don't know the exact date when I found that out, but it was

8 quite near Mehurici, so that we were aware of that fact. But I don't know

9 the exact date.

10 Q. Do you know if it was 1992 or 1993?

11 A. Well, perhaps early 1993.

12 Q. Now, the Arabs who were in the area of Mehurici, in the school and

13 these abandoned Serb houses that were nearby, do you know who their leader

14 was in 1992 and 1993?

15 A. I don't know what the command structure was when I was down there.

16 I didn't go to see them then, and I don't know who was in charge.

17 Q. Did there later come a time, Mr. Begovic, when you became aware of

18 who the first emir of these Arabs in Mehurici was?

19 A. Later, when I was attached to the detachment, the emir was Abu

20 Haris. I don't know who performed that duty before that time.

21 Q. Mr. Begovic, have you ever heard of anyone by the name of Abu

22 Abdel Aziz?

23 A. I did.

24 Q. Who is Abu Abdel Aziz?

25 A. He was one of the first to arrive at the school. I don't know who

1 he was, though. I don't know much about him.

2 Q. Okay. Let's return, then, to the abandoned Serb houses. Can you

3 tell the Trial Chamber where these houses were in relation to Mehurici?

4 A. Those houses were close to Mehurici, perhaps 500 metres or up to

5 one kilometre away.

6 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask if the witness could be shown the

7 electronic version of Map 10 from the Court binder, which bears ERN number

8 0618-6705. For the benefit of the usher, I'm going to ask the witness to

9 make some markings electronically, so perhaps she could get ready to

10 assist the witness with that.

11 Q. And while that's being done, Mr. Begovic: Did the location where

12 the abandoned Serb houses were located have a name?

13 A. We called it Zapode. I don't know whether it had any other name.

14 MR. MUNDIS: Perhaps, if the usher could be of assistance, we

15 actually need to go to the top of the map, please. I'm going to ask the

16 witness to make some markings electronically.

17 Yeah, that's fine.

18 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see a map in front of you on the screen?

19 A. I do.

20 Q. The usher is going to hand you an electronic pen, and I would ask

21 you, sir, if you see on this map, if you can mark the location where the

22 school in Mehurici is located, if you see it.

23 A. I cannot be precise. The school is right next to the road.

24 Q. Do you see the letters "SK" on the map?

25 A. I do.

1 Q. The building that's immediately below the letters "SK," is that

2 the location of the school in Mehurici?

3 A. I cannot be precise concerning the school location.

4 Q. Okay. Can you please, if you see it, mark the location -- circle

5 the location where the abandoned two or three Serb houses were located?

6 A. Again, I cannot be precise, but I can draw a circle. [Marks]

7 Approximately, around here.

8 Q. And if you could please place the number "1" next to the circle

9 that you have just drawn, indicating the location of these abandoned Serb

10 houses.

11 A. [Marks]

12 Q. And if you could then, sir, mark, to the best of your ability, the

13 approximate location of the school in Mehurici. And if you need to circle

14 several of the buildings, that's fine, but if you can mark the approximate

15 location of the school in Mehurici with a circle.

16 A. [Marks]

17 Q. And please place the number "2" next to the circle.

18 A. [Marks]

19 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you very much.

20 Your Honours, we would ask that a screen shot of this be taken.

21 I'm not sure if this Trial Chamber wants the witness to date and sign the

22 map. Some Chambers have a preference for that.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: It's not necessary, as long as it is tendered in.

24 MR. MUNDIS: We would ask that that be given an exhibit number and

25 that it be admitted into evidence.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic.

2 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, no objection.

3 Perhaps, Your Honours, we could save some time by me getting up

4 every time I have an objection, so as not to have to do it each and every

5 time yet again.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Madam Vidovic. Yes. Thank

7 you very much.

8 The map is admitted into evidence. May it please be given an

9 exhibit number.

10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit 63.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

12 MR. MUNDIS: And just for the record, Your Honours, I will note

13 that the very sensible suggestion of Mrs. Vidovic will be applied by the

14 Prosecution as well. In the event of silence, we will -- you can take

15 that as no objection. We will object only if we have -- we will rise only

16 if we have an objection.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

18 MR. MUNDIS:

19 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, let's turn to the period of the first six months

20 or seven months, actually, the period from 1 January until 31 July 1993.

21 What military unit were you serving in during this time period?

22 A. I was with the 306th Brigade.

23 Q. And in this time period, the first seven months of 1993, where

24 were you staying? Where were you living? Where were you billeted, if you

25 will?

1 A. I lived in my home, in my house.

2 Q. During the first seven months of 1993, can you tell the Trial

3 Chamber if you and the unit you were assigned to were engaged in any

4 combat or combat operations?

5 A. Yes, I did. I was.

6 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber briefly where you were engaged in

7 combat and against which armed force or armed forces?

8 A. We fought the HVO. I don't know what month it was, though;

9 perhaps May or June 1993.

10 Q. And, sir, again, for the benefit of the Trial Chamber, the HVO

11 refers to the Croatian Defence Council; is that correct?

12 A. Yes, the Croats. I don't know how else to call that.

13 Q. And the Croats that you were fighting, sir, were they local

14 Croats?

15 A. I don't know the people who were at their positions. There were

16 probably some locals. As for any foreigners, I don't know.

17 Q. I'd like to turn your attention, sir, to the 8th of June, 1993.

18 On that day, was the unit you were assigned to engaged in any military

19 operations?

20 A. I don't know about a date, but I was at Percin in that particular

21 operation. If that is the date, then that is all right.

22 Q. Can you give us an approximate time period, sir, to the best of

23 your recollection, when you were at the location Percin?

24 A. I did not understand the question. Are you asking me for a date

25 or a time?

1 Q. Well, let's start with the date. If you're not certain it was the

2 8th of June, 1993, can you tell us approximately when, to the best of your

3 recollection, you were at the location Percin?

4 A. Most likely it was in June. I don't know on what date, though.

5 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask that the witness be shown the electronic

6 version of Map 9 from the Court binder. This map bears ERN number

7 0618-6704.

8 We can zoom in a little bit more. That's fine. Thank you.

9 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, again, I'm going to ask if the usher can assist

10 you with the electronic pen. And before you make any markings, I'm going

11 to ask you if you can, on this map, draw a line from where your unit went

12 in June 1993 to the location that you've told us is known as Percin.

13 A. Here, more or less, but there's a winding road there. [Marks]

14 However, it was in this general direction.

15 Q. Can you please circle Percin, and next to the line you've drawn

16 mark the number "1"?

17 A. [Marks]

18 Q. Now, before we finish with this map, let me ask you, sir: On this

19 day in June 1993, were you aware of the presence of any Arabs in the

20 immediate vicinity of where your unit was located on Percin?

21 A. The rumour had it that they were to the left of us, but that's all

22 I know.

23 Q. Are you familiar, sir, with the location known as Borje?

24 A. We call it Borovi, Borje or Borovi, as it is known as in that

25 area.

1 Q. Were you aware, sir, whether there were any Arabs in that area in

2 June 1993?

3 A. I didn't understand the question. Located where, at Borje or

4 somewhere else?

5 Q. Yes.

6 A. There are no buildings or facilities that they could have been

7 located in. When there was an attack, this is where HVO mortar positions

8 were, and we just went through without stopping.

9 Q. Well, Mr. Begovic, do you remember providing a statement to the

10 Office of the Prosecutor in September 2005?

11 A. I do.

12 Q. And do you remember, in that statement, indicating that there were

13 Arabs to the left of the location where your unit was on Percin?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. When you made that statement, sir, what area were you referring to

16 where the Arabs were located or where they were on that day?

17 A. I have this place in mind. We were told that the Arabs were

18 moving towards Borje. Later on, we heard, when coming back from our

19 operation, that they were in the village of Radonjici and that they spent

20 some time there. I don't know how long, exactly.

21 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, can you please draw a circle around the area

22 that you have referred to as Borje?

23 A. [Marks]

24 Q. And please place the number "2" next to that circle.

25 A. [Marks]

1 Q. Now, on this day in June 1993, are you aware of how the Arabs got

2 to the location that you've just circled with the number "2"?

3 A. They also participated in the attack. That's what we were told.

4 Q. Well, I'll get to that in just a moment, please. But if you could

5 tell me, if you know, how the Arabs got to the location Borje or Borovi

6 that you've circled with the number "2." Where did they come from? How

7 did they get there?

8 A. You mean from what direction?

9 Q. Yes.

10 A. They came from the direction of Simulje.

11 Q. Can you please circle Simulje and place the letter or the number

12 "3" next to that location?

13 A. Simulje. [Marks]

14 Q. So if I understand, they went from Simulje to Borje. Is that

15 correct?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Can you please draw an arrow in the direction they went if Simulje

18 to Borje?

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes.

20 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour. This is an

21 extremely leading question. How can the witness know that unless he was

22 with them?

23 THE WITNESS: First of all, I don't know their direction of

24 movement, that is correct.

25 MR. MUNDIS:

1 Q. Well, I had asked you, sir, if you knew, and you --

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can we deal with the objection first? Are you

3 dealing with the objection?

4 MR. MUNDIS: I am trying to deal with the objection.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I ask - I'm not quite sure how it's done

6 here - usually when an opposite number stands up, you sit down, in my

7 jurisdiction. So we don't sort of stand up as if we are fighting

8 physically.

9 MR. MUNDIS: I will keep that in mind, Your Honours.

10 In response to the question on page 19, lines 5 through 8, I asked

11 the witness if he could tell us, if he knew; and the witness answered that

12 question on line 11 of page 19. That was the basis for asking the witness

13 the additional questions and asking him to make the markings on the map.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Exactly it came from the direction of --

15 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon.

17 He's answered the question that you put forth at those lines, that

18 they came from the direction of Simulje. That's right.

19 MR. MUNDIS: And as a result of that, I asked him to make some

20 markings, which he started to do. He made the circle. I then asked him

21 to draw a line, if he knew, where they went from, and that's how we got to

22 this point with respect to the objection.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. And where did he say they were moving to?

24 To Borje?

25 Madam Vidovic, did you still have an objection?

1 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Precisely, Your Honours.

2 The Prosecutor put a question, asking how they arrived there. I

3 read it as asking the witness to identify the itinerary, the road that

4 they took.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well, the question that's on the screen, as I see

6 it, is: "Where did they come from? How did they get there?"

7 And the answer was from the witness: "You mean from what

8 direction?"

9 The Prosecutor said: "Yes."

10 He says, "They came from the direction of Simulje."

11 He made those circles, and the question was: "So if I understand,

12 they went from Simulje to Borje; is that correct?"

13 The witness said: "Yes."

14 "Can you please draw an arrow in the direction they went, if

15 Simulje to Borje"? I guess it's supposed to be "From Simulje to Borje."

16 I'm not quite sure that's a very difficult thing to make. Once

17 you've circled Simulje and you've circled Borje, and you say they moved

18 from Simulje to Borje, certainly you couldn't go in any direction, except

19 the direction of Borje.

20 Yes.

21 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, in the field in

22 Central Bosnia, it is possible in that terrain, in general, for various

23 reasons. I don't want to testify here, but I objected to the question

24 because the question was how they arrived there, from one location to the

25 other. That was the gist of my objection.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Your objection is how they arrived there. I'm

2 not -- would you like to deal with that, Mr. Prosecutor?

3 MR. MUNDIS: My question was simply to put on the record in this

4 exhibit, in a graphic manner, the direction that they travelled from one

5 point to the other and not necessarily the specific route that they might

6 have gone or past which feature or location on the map, simply to enable

7 us, three or six or eight months from now, to make more sense out of this

8 map in terms of an arrow indicating that they went from one place to the

9 other. If that's not helpful, I will move on.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do you have any response to that, Madam Vidovic?

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I can clarify that

12 with the witness during cross-examination.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

14 For purposes of the record, the objection is overruled.

15 MR. MUNDIS:

16 Q. Mr. Begovic, again, can you simply draw an arrow in the direction

17 the Arabs went from Simulje to Borje?

18 A. I don't know whether you want me to draw a straight arrow. I

19 don't know exactly how they moved about.

20 Q. I understand that, and that's exactly why I've asked you simply to

21 draw a straight arrow, so that in the future we can understand the

22 direction they went.

23 A. Perhaps we didn't move the way I depicted here, in a straight

24 line. As the madam from Defence said, Bosnia is more specific. There are

25 winding roads. You have to go around a hill in order to reach a certain

1 location. Therefore, we don't move in straight lines, but this was just

2 for ease of reference.

3 Q. Exactly. And for ease of reference, sir, I'm asking you if you

4 could draw a similar line with arrowheads indicating the direction from

5 Simulje to Borje.

6 A. I can draw a line, but I don't know whether they moved exactly

7 that way. There you go. [Marks]

8 Q. And can you draw arrowheads indicating the direction that they

9 went from one place to the other?

10 A. An arrow like this? [Marks]

11 Q. Thank you very much.

12 Now, Mr. Begovic, do you know or do you have information or did

13 you observe how the Arabs got to the location Simulje, marked as number

14 "3"?

15 A. No.

16 Q. Do you know where the Arabs who were at Simulje on their way to

17 Borje came from, in the sense of where they were immediately before they

18 were at Simulje?

19 A. I don't know where they used to be. We were in Suhi Dol. They may

20 have been at their camp down at Zapode. I don't know.

21 Q. So you don't know if the Arabs who were at Simulje came from the

22 location at Zapode?

23 A. I don't know.

24 Q. So from your location, sir, at Percin --

25 JUDGE LATTANZI: [Interpretation] Witness, please. You spoke about

1 Percin. How do you know that this group went from Simulje to Borje? It

2 was a rumour, was it a rumour only, or did you have firsthand evidence of

3 this movement?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The rumour was such --

5 [French on English Channel]

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Maybe before you go, can I just also ask the

7 witness to make a similar arrow on the Suhi Dol-Percin line, to indicate

8 the direction of movement.

9 THE WITNESS: [Marks]

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 You may proceed, Mr. Mundis.

12 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you. Thank you, Your Honours.

13 Q. Mr. Begovic, a few moments ago - and this is reflected on page 18,

14 lines 17 and 18 - you said, in response to a question concerning Borje:

15 "We were told that the Arabs were moving towards Borje." Do you remember

16 who told you that, sir?

17 A. No.

18 Q. At any point prior to your unit going to Percin, did your

19 commander or anyone else inform you that the Arabs would be involved in

20 operations on that day?

21 A. The rumour was that they were going to participate in the

22 operation.

23 Q. From the location that you were at, sir, on Percin, were you able

24 to observe Simulje? Could you see Simulje from Percin?

25 A. In terms of altitude, it is far away. We couldn't see it. Well,

1 we might have been able to see it, but if you mean by that whether we were

2 able to observe anyone in particular, well, no.

3 Q. Okay. And can you see from Percin to the location Borje?

4 A. Yes. We could see Borje because this is a forest, in fact.

5 Q. Again, Mr. Begovic, do you remember being interviewed by an

6 investigator of the Tribunal on the 14th of September, 2005?

7 A. Yes, I do.

8 Q. And in that statement that you provided, do you remember telling

9 the investigator that the Mujahedin were on "our left side. Their AOR,"

10 or area of responsibility, "was Simulje"?

11 A. Yes. I said then, and I say now, that they were to our left. As

12 regards the area of responsibility, I was just a simple, ordinary soldier,

13 so whether it was their AOR or not, I don't know that.

14 Q. I guess, sir, what I'm trying to clear up is whether there were

15 rumours that the Mujahedin were there or whether they were actually there.

16 And I want to give you the opportunity to clarify that or to explain that.

17 A. They were there. That's unequivocal. They were in action.

18 Q. And when you say, "They were in action," can you tell us or tell

19 the Trial Chamber where they were in action on this day in June 1993?

20 A. I said, again, that they were to the left of us, approximately in

21 this direction which I drew in on the map.

22 Q. And can you refer to the number or numbers on the map when you

23 say, "in this direction which I drew on the map," can you tell us which

24 number or numbers you're referring to?

25 A. Well, approximately the numbers "3" and "2."

1 Q. Mr. Begovic, during the period of June 1993, was this the only --

2 this day that you've told us about that you were on Percin, was this the

3 only day, that you're aware of, of combat operations in the vicinity of

4 Suhi Dol, Maline, and Radonjici?

5 A. After that day, the unit in which I was had no more combat

6 operations. We spent that one night at Percin, then we descended on the

7 next day and passed through the village of Bukovica. And we were at a

8 hill called Kukuljika down below Bukovica, and we stayed there another

9 three or four days on the line at our positions.

10 Q. But again, sir, my question was: The day that you were on Percin

11 in June 1993, other than that day, other than that day, were there

12 military operations in the vicinity of Suhi Dol, Gornje Maline, Radonjici,

13 or was that the only occasion in June 1993 where there were such military

14 operations?

15 A. To the best of my knowledge, these were the only combat activities

16 during that period. There was nothing else around Suhi Dol at that time.

17 Perhaps there was some incident, but I don't know that. I can't recall

18 any.

19 Q. Now, sir, you told us just a moment ago that you went down to

20 Bukovica and stayed there three or four days. After returning from

21 Bukovica, where did you go? Or after staying in Bukovica, where did you

22 go?

23 A. No, we just through Bukovica. Bukovica had been abandoned, the

24 population had fled. So we passed by or through Bukovica and we were at

25 the Kukuljika Hill for three days.

1 Q. And after being at the Kukuljika Hill for a few days, where did

2 your unit go?

3 A. We went back home then.

4 Q. And which route did you take or through which villages did you go

5 in returning home?

6 A. We returned home here above Radonjici and above Borje, and this

7 way via Lazine, and in then in this direction to Suhi Dol.

8 Q. And on the way you returned by way of Radonjici, did you observe

9 any foreigners in that --

10 A. We passed by Radonjici, not through Radonjici.

11 Q. As you passed by Radonjici, did you observe any foreign fighters

12 or Arabs in the vicinity of that village on that day?

13 A. Well, there were two or three Arabs near the village. We saw

14 them, and then later we heard stories that they would not let anyone enter

15 the village and things like that.

16 Q. Mr. Begovic, at any point in time in June 1993, did you become

17 aware of prisoners of war being kept in the Mehurici school?

18 A. Yeah. Rumour had it that there were some POWs, civilians, women,

19 and children there.

20 Q. Did you ever receive any official information about prisoners of

21 war and civilian detainees in the school?

22 A. No.

23 Q. Sir, can you tell us when you left the 306th -- actually, before

24 we turn to that, I would ask that the map which the witness marked with

25 the numbers "1," "2," "3" be captured and be given an exhibit number,

1 please.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: That will be admitted into evidence. May it please

3 be given an exhibit number.

4 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit 64.

5 MR. MUNDIS:

6 Q. Just a few more questions before our first break.

7 Did there come a time, sir, when you left the 306th Mountain

8 Brigade?

9 A. Yes.

10 Q. When was that, sir?

11 A. That was around the 1st of August, 1993.

12 Q. And what did you do or where did you go, what military unit did

13 you join, on or about the 1st of August, 1993?

14 A. Well, we joined these Arabs in Mehurici. Whether the detachment

15 had been recognised or not at that time, I don't know, but we joined them.

16 Q. And when you say "we joined these Arabs," can you tell us who you

17 were referring to when you say "we joined these Arabs"?

18 A. There were four or five of us then, lads not from the village, but

19 four or five of us lads who joined the Arabs.

20 Q. Can you explain to the Trial Chamber, sir, the steps, if any, that

21 you took to go from the 306th Mountain Brigade to joining the Arabs in

22 Mehurici?

23 A. No. As far as the paperwork is concerned, the papers, I took no

24 measures at all. I did nothing about those.

25 JUDGE HARHOFF: Excuse me. It may have slipped my mind, but why

1 were you transferred from the 306th Brigade to the Muslim -- to the Arab

2 detachment? Did you do so by your own will or were you ordered over

3 there?

4 THE WITNESS: Of my own will. I wasn't transferred. I just

5 joined them of my own volition.

6 JUDGE HARHOFF: Would you care to explain why?

7 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, at that time, I was of the

8 view that this unit that we were part of was not really organised as

9 properly as they should have been. They were just in their infancy, and

10 also I was prompted by some religious reasons of mine to join this

11 detachment.

12 JUDGE HARHOFF: Thank you.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you for that clarification.

14 When you did this of your own volition, did you ask for permission

15 or did you just walk across?

16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Well, I just simply went there.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: And was there any reaction from your superiors

18 within the 306th Brigade to this just walking away like that?

19 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I don't think so. I don't think

20 there was any. I don't know. Later, I found out that we received some

21 sort of permit or permission, sometime later.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Permission to do what?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Every time when we left, we didn't

24 ask anyone; but later, we found out that this move of ours had been

25 approved by the 306th Brigade in papers, by documentation, approving our

1 leaving.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: And were you given that documentation?

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No. We were never given it. We

4 just heard this, because we were quite nearby and the people from -- we

5 knew the people from the 306th Brigade. We knew the people who were

6 working in its personnel department, so we got this news -- this

7 information from them.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

9 MR. MUNDIS: And if I could just tie up a couple of loose ends on

10 this issue, and then we can break.

11 Q. So, Mr. Begovic, did you seek any oral authorisation from your

12 commander to move from the 306th Mountain Brigade to the Arabs in

13 Mehurici?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Were you ever subjected to any disciplinary action as a result of

16 switching from the 306th Mountain Brigade to the Arabs in Mehurici?

17 A. No, I wasn't.

18 Q. Were you ever questioned by anyone from the military police or the

19 security administration about switching from the 306th Mountain Brigade to

20 the Arabs in Mehurici?

21 A. No, I was not.

22 MR. MUNDIS: I think this would be a proper time for the break.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. We will break, and we will

24 adjourn and come back at 4.00.

25 --- Recess taken at 3.29 p.m.

1 --- On resuming at 4.00 p.m.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Mr. Mundis.

3 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President.

4 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, shortly before the break, you told us how you

5 came to join the El-Mujahedin Unit, or the Arabs in Mehurici, as you

6 called it, and that there were a few others who left the 306th Mountain

7 Brigade with you at that time.

8 Do you recall the identities of any of those individuals who

9 joined the Arabs in Mehurici with you from the 306th on or about the 1st

10 of August, 1993?

11 A. Yes. I could mention a couple of names that I do remember.

12 Q. Please.

13 A. Shall I? Alija Hodzic, Zikret Causevic, Safet Sarevic.

14 JUDGE LATTANZI: [In English] I have a question.

15 [Interpretation] Witness, when you left the 306th Brigade to join

16 Arabs' unit, as you said, you felt that you were leaving behind the

17 Bosnian Army?

18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

19 JUDGE LATTANZI: Thank you.

20 MR. MUNDIS:

21 Q. Mr. Begovic, in a couple of moments I'm going to show you a couple

22 of documents. But before I do that, you told us earlier today about

23 training in the Mehurici school, and I'd like to briefly return to that

24 subject.

25 When you joined the Arabs in Mehurici, where was that unit located

1 at that point in time when you joined on or about the 1st of August, 1993?

2 A. Near Mehurici in Zapode [Realtime transcript read in error

3 "Zapolje"].

4 Q. And this is the location you marked earlier the two or three

5 abandoned Serb houses; is that correct?

6 A. That's right.

7 Q. And I see that the transcript reads "Zapolje." Could you please

8 spell "Zapode" for the record?

9 A. Just one second. Z-a-p-o-d-e.

10 Q. Thank you.

11 Now, sir, at the time you joined the Arabs in Mehurici or in

12 Zapode, what type of training, if any, was that unit conducting?

13 A. After we had just only arrived, we had training comprising fitness

14 training, handling weapons training, and definitely there was the

15 religious segment of the instruction, of training. Of course, I don't

16 mean literally training, but familiarisation with Islam, to a somewhat

17 greater extent.

18 Q. We'll return to the issue of training in greater detail later this

19 afternoon. But for now, can you tell us, was the unit in Zapode training

20 only members of that unit or was the training extended to anyone else?

21 A. It was just confined to members of that unit.

22 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask now that the witness be shown document

23 PT1505 -- PT01505. And if we could please go to the second page of that

24 document in the original, and that would be the second page of the

25 document also in the English translation.

1 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see this document on the screen in front of

2 you?

3 A. Yes, I do.

4 Q. And do you see your name on this document, sir?

5 A. Yes, I do.

6 Q. Which number is next to your name, sir, on this document?

7 A. The number "7."

8 Q. And you mentioned a few moments ago the names of some other

9 individuals who left the 306th with you and joined the Arabs. Do you see

10 their names on this list; and if you do, can you please tell us the

11 numbers next to their names?

12 A. I see, under number 16, Zikret Causevic; under number 28, Alija

13 Hodzic; 32, Safet Jasarevic.

14 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you know any of the other individuals listed on

15 this document, PT1505?

16 A. Yes, I do.

17 Q. Which other individuals do you know that are on this list?

18 A. Number 1. Do I have also to say the name?

19 Q. I think it's sufficient if you just give the numbers, since this

20 document is in front of us.

21 A. So number 1, number 3, 4, 13, 17, 18, 19, 35. That would be it.

22 Q. And, sir, can you tell us how you know these people whose names

23 you've recognised on this document?

24 A. There are some neighbours of mine among them. So we used to know

25 each other prior to joining the unit, because these are adjacent villages.

1 So we were neighbours, and we knew each other as such.

2 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, did you know any of these people during the time

3 period that you were in the El Mujahedin Detachment?

4 A. I did not quite get your question.

5 Q. During the time period, sir, that you were in the El Mujahedin

6 Detachment, were these people that you've just mentioned, or the numbers

7 that you've indicated, were they in that unit with you?

8 A. Yes, they were.

9 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honours, I'd ask that PT1505 be admitted into

10 evidence and be given an exhibit number, please.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: PT015 --

12 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, Your Honour, please.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: I beg your pardon, sorry. PT01505 is admitted into

14 evidence. May it please be given an exhibit number.

15 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit 65.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

17 MR. MUNDIS: I would now ask that the witness be shown what was

18 previously marked PT01538. 1538. Similarly, I would ask that we go to

19 page 2 in the B/C/S version and page 2 in the English version as well,

20 please.

21 Q. Again, Mr. Begovic, do you see the document in your language on

22 the screen in front of you?

23 A. I do.

24 Q. And, sir, the same question I asked you before: Do you see your

25 name on this list?

1 A. Yes, I do.

2 Q. And which number is next to your name?

3 A. It is number 7.

4 Q. And this list seems to contain the same names as the previous

5 list, but I'll ask you, again, individuals that you know that are listed

6 on this document?

7 A. Well, it's more or less the same list. So what I said a minute

8 ago applies to this list as well in terms of the people that I knew.

9 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, I see a reference in the second sentence of this

10 document that, in the English, reads: "There is a group among them who

11 are not a member of the detachment but are currently on training with us."

12 Do you know what that might refer to?

13 A. I don't know. Perhaps it was us. It may have been us. But this

14 is probably correspondence between the units, and we perhaps had not been

15 given authorisation yet. But I'm not quite sure. I can't say. I never

16 saw this before.

17 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honours, we would ask that PT1538 be admitted

18 into evidence and be given an exhibit number.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: PT01538 is admitted into evidence. May it please

20 be given an exhibit number.

21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 66.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

23 Mr. Mundis.

24 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you.

25 Q. Mr. Begovic --

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis, does the document have a date?

2 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honour, if you look at the first page of the

3 document, or perhaps if we can pull up the first page, which is the

4 transmission of this document to a number of other units, that -- the

5 covering page does, in fact, have a date.

6 JUDGE HARHOFF: And who was the sender? I didn't get that.

7 MR. MUNDIS: The sender of the cover page?

8 JUDGE HARHOFF: No, of the document. I see, on the English

9 version of the last exhibit, that it is addressed to - oh, there comes a

10 new document - but it was addressed to the 306th Brigade, so I just

11 wondered, when was it sent and from whom?

12 MR. MUNDIS: The document, at the bottom of the page, both in the

13 English and the B/C/S versions, indicates the Emir, Dr. Abu Haris, was the

14 sender of this list, which then has the covering document from Vezir

15 Jusufspahic.

16 JUDGE HARHOFF: So I understand it was from the Arab detachment to

17 the 306th.

18 MR. MUNDIS: And then the covering document -- on both of these

19 documents, the covering letter is sending that list other units or up the

20 chain of command, as well as down the chain of command.

21 JUDGE HARHOFF: So I suppose that provides the answer to the

22 question that you just put to the witness.

23 MR. MUNDIS: Yes.

24 JUDGE HARHOFF: I see. Thank you very much.

25 MR. MUNDIS:

1 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, let's return to the issue of the El Mujahedin

2 Detachment. Can you tell us, sir, how that unit, at the time you joined

3 on or about 1 August 1993, how that unit was structured?

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

5 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Objection. Your Honour, the

6 witness said that on the 1st of August, he joined a group of Arabs. He

7 did not mention any detachments or their names.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis.

9 MR. MUNDIS: I can ask some questions to clarify that of the

10 witness. Clearly, the document we just were looking at indicated that

11 unit detachment on the letterhead, but I can certainly ask the witness

12 that question.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please.

14 MR. MUNDIS:

15 Q. Mr. Begovic, the Arabs in Mehurici that you joined --

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sorry. Your learned friend is still on her feet.

17 Yes, Madam Vidovic.

18 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, it has to do with the

19 date. The witness said that the 1st of August was when he joined the

20 group of Arabs. This document bears a date in September, the 9th of

21 September. It is an important difference, and I maintain that the witness

22 mentioned no detachment, at least not in reference to the 1st of August.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Do you understand that?

24 MR. MUNDIS: Absolutely. I can ask the witness to explain that.

25 Q. Mr. Begovic, at the time you joined the Arabs in Mehurici on or

1 about the 1st of August, 1993, can you tell us whether that group of Arabs

2 in Mehurici had a name?

3 A. There was no official name, but the locals called it El Mujahed.

4 As far as I know, there was no official title, name. The people there

5 used to call it that way, that group of people.

6 Q. And when you say "that group of people," who are you referring to?

7 A. The people who were there in the camp in Zapode.

8 Q. And, sir, did that unit that the locals or the people in the camp

9 called El Mujahed, did that later have any other name?

10 A. Later on, when it got organised, although I don't know when the

11 detachment was recognised as such, it was given the name of El Mujahed,

12 the El Mujahedin Detachment.

13 Q. Now, sir, at the time you joined this unit, the Arabs in Mehurici

14 or El Mujahed, can you tell us about the structure of that formation?

15 A. When I joined the unit, first, I underwent one-month training --

16 well, between 30 and 40 days of it. I wasn't familiar with the structure

17 until we went into our first operation, then we were divided into groups.

18 Up until that time, I don't know what the structure was. I can only refer

19 to the period that followed.

20 Q. Okay. Let's then -- again, I'll ask you more detail about

21 training in a few minutes. But when you say that you weren't familiar

22 with the structure until you first went into -- or your first operation,

23 can you tell us approximately when that was that you became aware of the

24 structure of that unit?

25 A. After the training, when we were sent to Kruscica for combat

1 action, we were then deployed into different groups. This was the first

2 time I learned about the structure within the detachment. I don't know

3 what month it was exactly, though, when we went to Kruscica.

4 Q. You told us, sir, that you joined on or about the 1st of August,

5 and then went to 30 or 40 days of training. So it would be sometime at

6 least in September, if not thereafter?

7 A. September, shortly after the training, then there was the combat

8 activity.

9 Q. And this is 1993, for the record; is that correct?

10 A. I think so.

11 Q. Now, at that point in time, September 1993, can you tell us about

12 the structure of the El Mujahedin Unit?

13 A. There were two or three combat groups, at the most, within the

14 unit, and some Arabs that were there. This is it, more or less.

15 Q. And at the time, this time we're talking about now, September

16 1993, approximately, how big was the overall El Mujahedin Detachment? How

17 many people? How many men?

18 A. Up to 50 men, not more.

19 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, can you give an approximate breakdown as to the

20 number of those 50 men who were from Bosnia and Herzegovina and the

21 approximate number of men who were foreigners in the El Mujahedin

22 Detachment?

23 A. In that period, there were more Bosniaks than Arabs.

24 Q. Mr. Begovic, again, August/September 1993, when you first joined

25 the unit, do you remember any of the Bosniaks who were in that unit with

1 you? Do you remember the names of any of them?

2 A. The names I mentioned from the list, those are the people I

3 remember; the document we saw a little while ago on the screen.

4 Q. Now, can you tell us a little bit about -- you told us that there

5 were two or three combat groups. How many men were in each of these two

6 or three combat groups?

7 A. In the initial period, ten to 15 people per combat group; later,

8 subsequently, the combat groups had up to 20 people each, but not more

9 than that.

10 Q. And who was in charge of each of these combat groups?

11 A. They were Bosniaks.

12 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, were you assigned to one of these two or three

13 combat groups?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. Who was the leader of your combat group in the August/September

16 1993 period?

17 A. Amir Puric.

18 Q. Do you recall, sir, the leaders of any of the other combat groups

19 in that time period?

20 A. No.

21 Q. Within your combat group, sir, were there Bosniaks and Arabs or

22 foreigners?

23 A. Bosniaks were separate.

24 Q. So I take it, from that answer, there were no Arabs or foreigners

25 in your combat group in August/September 1993.

1 A. No.

2 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber, please, about the leadership of

3 the El Mujahedin Detachment in August/September 1993, above the level of

4 these two or three combat groups?

5 A. The emir of the detachment, if I may call it that, at the time was

6 Abu Haris, Dr. Abu Haris. In terms of structure, there was a military

7 emir --

8 THE INTERPRETER: Could the witness please repeat the name? The

9 interpreter did not hear.

10 MR. MUNDIS:

11 Q. Sir, for the record --

12 A. Vahidin.

13 Q. Other than Dr. Haris and Vahidin, do you remember any of the

14 leaders in the El Mujahedin Detachment in this time period

15 August/September 1993?

16 A. No.

17 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask now the witness be shown the document

18 PT01462.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: If I might just intervene, before you leave this

20 topic, the witness says that the emir of the detachment was Abu Haris; and

21 then in terms of structure, there was a military emir, Vahidin. What was

22 Abu Haris an emir of? If the other one was a military one, what was this

23 other one, Abu Haris?

24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Vahidin took care of military

25 issues; training, weapons. As for any other duties of Abu Haris, I don't

1 know about that.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: But you say he was the emir of the detachment?

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. He was the main person.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: What did he do?

5 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Vahidin was his subordinate. I

6 don't know if you can grasp the concept.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: No, I don't, unfortunately. I would like to know

8 if Vahidin looked after military issues, weapons and training, what did

9 Abu Haris look after?

10 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I don't know that.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

12 Mr. Mundis.

13 MR. MUNDIS: If we could please have PT1462, page 3 in both

14 English and B/C/S, please.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Is it 1462 or is it 01462?

16 MR. MUNDIS: 01462.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

18 MR. MUNDIS: And I should indicate that the English version simply

19 contains the translation of the headings of the document, simply because

20 it's a list and the CLSS quite often does this in order to save time.

21 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see your name on this document?

22 A. Not on this page.

23 MR. MUNDIS: Could we then please go to page 5 in the B/C/S

24 version of the document, towards the bottom of the document, but we need

25 to capture the lower half of the page.

1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I can see it now. The number 105.

2 MR. MUNDIS: 105.

3 Q. And, sir, on the far right-hand column, we see dates, and it would

4 indicate a large number of persons with the same date of entry. Do you

5 see that?

6 A. Here, you mean? [Indicating]

7 Q. On the far right-hand side, the far right-hand column.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: The column with dots below certain numbers.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes, I can see it. What about it?

10 MR. MUNDIS:

11 Q. This, sir, would seem to indicate that you joined the unit on the

12 31st of July, 1993, rather than the 1st of August, 1993. I'm just

13 wondering if you can comment on that.

14 A. A day or two this way or that. I don't know about the date. The

15 1st or the 31st. I don't think it is that important.

16 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, you were shown this document yesterday

17 afternoon; is that correct?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And other than your own name, did you recognise the names of

20 anyone else on this list?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Do you recall approximately how many names you recognised?

23 A. Not exactly. Ten, fifteen, twenty maybe.

24 MR. MUNDIS: Could we please go to page 3 of this document in

25 B/C/S.

1 Q. Sir, if you could look down this list and indicate the numbers

2 next to the names of the people that you know and people that served in

3 the El Mujahedin Detachment with you.

4 A. 1, 4 -- 1, 3, 4, 5, 7, 9, 10, 11, 13, 15, 17, 24, 26, 27.

5 Q. If we go to the next page, please.

6 A. 11 -- is it 11?

7 Q. I believe it's 31, continuing from --

8 A. 31, yes. 33, 37, 43, 51, 56, 58, 64, 66.

9 Q. Next page, please.

10 A. 71, 78, 86, 90, 93, 98, 102, and then there's my name.

11 Q. The next page, please.

12 A. 111, 131, 139, 140, 141. That is it.

13 Q. And, finally, the last page of the document, please.

14 A. 159, 172, 186.

15 MR. MUNDIS: And, finally, if we could go to page 2 of this

16 document, which does have a corresponding English translation, or should.

17 It should also be page 2. Yes.

18 Q. Mr. Begovic, a few moments ago I asked you about the leadership,

19 and you gave us some answers. Do you recognise any of the other people

20 listed under numbers 1 through 11 on this document?

21 A. Dr. Abu Haris; Abu Maali; number 5 [as interpreted]; number 4;

22 again, number 5. There are some names here which are listed more than

23 once. They were on the other list as well. Number 7; number 11.

24 Q. Perhaps I misunderstood something, but could you -- how about the

25 person listed under number 3?

1 A. From the top? Yes, Vahidin.

2 MR. MUNDIS: Okay. Your Honour, I would ask that PT01462 be

3 admitted into evidence and be provided with an exhibit number.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: PT01462 is admitted into evidence. May it please

5 be given a number.

6 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, a remark.

7 This document does not contain the full translation of the

8 relevant page. It can be seen that there is a notation made by hand at

9 page 03642917. I will clarify this with the witness later on. I will

10 have some questions concerning this, and that's why I believe it is

11 important to have a full translation.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Madam Vidovic, do I understand you to be asking for

13 a translation of this handwritten note?

14 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, Your Honour, and it should be

15 tendered only as such, with a full translation. It might be marked for

16 identification for the time being, pending the full translation.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis.

18 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Your Honours.

19 Perhaps I'm misunderstanding what my learned colleague is

20 referring to; but if it's the handwritten note on the current page, it is

21 translated at the very bottom of the English, where it indicates

22 handwritten notes. And I'm not sure if she's challenging the --

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Can we have the very bottom of the English page

24 come up.

25 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I apologise. We

1 couldn't see it on the screen. I omitted to see that.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, madam. Do you now withdraw

3 your objection, madam?

4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Yes, I do. Yes, I do.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. Then PT01462 is admitted into

6 evidence. May it please be given an exhibit number.

7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 67.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

9 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Mundis, what is the provenance [Realtime

10 transcript read in error "providence"] of this? Who made this overview?

11 Where does it stem from, and what credibility does it have?

12 For the stenographer, I said, "What is the provenance."

13 Where does it come from?

14 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honour, I haven't got that information at hand.

15 I can certainly get it at the next break; and rather than misspeak or

16 provide inaccurate information, I would prefer to wait. If you would like

17 to hold off on a decision on the document until I can provide that, that's

18 fine. I can certainly have it at the next break.

19 The first page of the document, though, is a receipt that we

20 received in obtaining this document.

21 JUDGE HARHOFF: No, that's fine. Just if you would be kind enough

22 to inform the Chamber of the provenance of this document. Thank you.

23 MR. MUNDIS: Absolutely. We'll have that information at the

24 commencement following the next break.

25 I would ask now that the witness be shown the photo book, which

1 was previously marked as PT06157. And what I would propose to do is

2 simply run through that entire exhibit and see which, if any, of those

3 photographs the witness is able to identify.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis, the Registry suggests that if you have

5 a hard copy, you use that also, because the system is a bit slow with

6 photographs. Maybe you can move a little faster if you have hard copies,

7 but the rest of us will look at the system.

8 MR. MUNDIS: I do, in fact, have a hard copy set of the

9 photographs; and, perhaps, in light of doing that, it might also be

10 helpful if the witness were simply to mark the names of those persons that

11 he does recognise on them here in the courtroom, which then when they're

12 scanned in will have the names as well.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: If you can just pass them to your learned

14 colleagues to see that, in fact, no name is already written on them.

15 I beg your pardon. The suggestion is they be put on the ELMO.

16 Good. Sorry.

17 MR. MUNDIS:

18 Q. Okay. Mr. Begovic, you now have, I believe, about 22 photographs

19 in front of you on the ELMO, the machine to your right, and I would ask

20 you, sir, if - and I stress the word "if" - you recognise any of these

21 photographs, if you would please tell us who is depicted in the photograph

22 and how you know who that person is; and then we'll ask you to write the

23 name of that person on -- underneath the photograph.

24 Do you understand what I'm asking you to do, sir?

25 A. Yes, I do.

1 Q. The first photograph that you see in front of you, can you

2 recognise that person?

3 A. Yes, I can.

4 Q. And who is it, sir?

5 A. Sheikh Enver.

6 Q. And does Sheikh Enver have a last name or a family name, to the

7 best of your knowledge?

8 A. I believe it was Saban.

9 Q. And, sir, how do you know Sheikh Enver Saban?

10 A. Well, we saw him in our unit.

11 Q. Did he have a role or a function in your unit?

12 A. Well, he certainly did.

13 Q. And what role or function was that?

14 A. He was among the people who were in charge of the detachment, if

15 not the person in charge. I cannot remember.

16 Q. Can you write his name, please, underneath the photograph?

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: You want the name on the hard copy or do you want

18 it on the screen?

19 MR. MUNDIS: On the hard copy, since he's got that in front of

20 him, Your Honour.

21 A. [Marks]

22 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask for some direction from perhaps the Court

23 Officer or the Trial Chamber. I'm going to ask that all the photographs

24 that he recognises be admitted, and I'm not sure if we want to do that one

25 by one or if you want them to go in as a bundle.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Let him mark them and then we can scan them in.

2 MR. MUNDIS: So they'll go in as one exhibit?

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes.

4 MR. MUNDIS: That's fine.

5 Q. Sir, if you could then turn to the next photograph, and I would

6 ask you, again, if you recognise the person in these three photographs.

7 A. It is the same person, Sheikh Enver.

8 Q. Could you again write his name, Sheikh Enver Saban, on the bottom

9 of that photo photograph?

10 A. [Marks]

11 Q. And this photograph, sir?

12 A. The same person.

13 Q. Would you, again, please write his name on that photograph?

14 A. [Marks]

15 Q. Do you recognise this person, Mr. Begovic?

16 A. This is Abdul Aziz.

17 Q. Could you please write his name on that photograph?

18 A. [Marks]

19 Q. Do you recognise this person?

20 A. It is the same person.

21 Q. Could you please write his name on the photograph?

22 A. [Marks]

23 Q. Do you recognise this person, sir?

24 A. Not, I don't.

25 Q. Could you go to the next photograph, please?

1 A. No.

2 Q. Next photograph, please?

3 A. No.

4 Q. Next photograph, please?

5 A. No.

6 Q. Next photograph, please? Do you recognise anyone --

7 MR. MUNDIS: Let's focus first on the top photograph.

8 Q. Do you recognise anyone in that photograph, sir?

9 A. [No interpretation] [Indicating]

10 THE INTERPRETER: The interpreter did not hear the witness.

11 MR. MUNDIS:

12 Q. The interpreters did not hear you, sir. Could you repeat the name

13 of that person?

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Repeat what he said.

15 A. Nusret Abdibegovic.

16 Q. Could you put a circle around the person that you've identified in

17 the top photograph?

18 A. Like this. [Marks]

19 Q. Just a circle right around his image in the photo, so that you're

20 not circling anybody else.

21 A. [Marks]

22 Q. And on the margin on the left-hand side, if you could write his

23 name?

24 A. Here, under the photograph? [Indicating]

25 Q. That's fine. If you could write his name, please.

1 A. [Marks]

2 Q. Now, can you please just draw a line from that name up to the

3 circle, so that there's no confusion as to what it is you've labelled?

4 A. [Marks]

5 Q. Thank you very much. Can you tell the Trial Chamber Nusret

6 Abdibegovic is?

7 A. He is currently the Mufti in Travnik.

8 Q. And, sir, do you know what function he was holding or what

9 position he was in, in the period 1993 to 1995?

10 A. I don't know that.

11 Q. In the top photograph, do you recognise any of the other

12 individuals standing in front of or beside or behind Mufti Abdibegovic?

13 A. No.

14 Q. And in the lower photograph, do you recognise any of the people?

15 A. Just him; no one else.

16 Q. Just Mufti Abdibegovic who appears in both photos.

17 MR. MUNDIS: Could we go to the next picture, please?

18 Q. And, again, the top photograph, do you recognise anybody in the

19 top photograph?

20 A. Sakib Mahmuljin. [Indicates]

21 Q. If you could please draw a line from the person you've indicated

22 as Sakib Mahmuljin, to the right-hand side, and then write his name over

23 on the right-hand margin, please.

24 A. [Marks]

25 Q. If you could just draw a line from that name to the person that

1 you've --

2 A. I had drawn a line, but you can see it quite well. [Marks]

3 Q. I see it now. Do you see anybody else in that photograph?

4 A. Abu Aiman.

5 Q. Would you please draw a circle around Abu Aiman and write his name

6 at the bottom, and then connect the circle to the name, please.

7 A. [Marks]

8 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, can you tell the Trial Chamber who Abu Aiman is

9 or was?

10 A. He was an interpreter. As far as I know, this is what he did most

11 often.

12 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, what unit, if you know, what unit was Abu Aiman

13 in, in 1993 to 1995?

14 A. He was with the El Mujahed Detachment.

15 Q. Do you recognise anyone else, sir, in the top photograph?

16 A. Here. [Indicating] We again have Nusret, Efendi Abdibegovic.

17 Q. If you could, again, sir, draw or write his name on the left-hand

18 margin, and draw and arrow to the person you have indicated as Mufti

19 Abdibegovic; and perhaps an arrow, again, as well, please.

20 A. [Marks]

21 Q. Do you recognise anyone else in the photograph?

22 A. No.

23 Q. And in the bottom photograph, sir?

24 A. No.

25 Q. Next photograph, please.

1 A. This is Abu Haris and Abdul Melik. [Indicating]

2 Q. Again, sir, same procedure, if you could draw circles and then

3 draw arrows to the person that you've identified.

4 A. [Marks]

5 Q. And can you tell the Trial Chamber -- we've already talked about

6 Abu Haris. Abdul Melik, can you tell the Trial Chamber who Abdul Melik

7 was?

8 A. He was an interpreter.

9 Q. Where was he from; do you know?

10 A. I don't know for sure. I think some place around Donji Vakuf.

11 Q. But just so the record is clear, Abdul Melik was a Bosnian, isn't

12 that correct, a Bosniak?

13 A. Yes, that's correct.

14 Q. And when you say he was an "interpreter," what language or

15 languages did he interpret in? What languages did he speak other than

16 Bosnian?

17 A. He could speak Arabic and, of course, Bosnian, and he interpreted

18 from Arabic into Bosniak.

19 MR. MUNDIS: Can we have the next photograph, please?

20 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you recognise anybody in this photograph?

21 A. It is Abu Haris on both photographs, but I don't know who this

22 other person is.

23 Q. Again, sir, if you could please write "Abu Haris" in the margin

24 and draw an arrow to the person you recognise as Abu Haris.

25 A. [Marks]

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I ask the witness to please try and write

2 legibly, something that we can be able to read. That "S" in "Haris" that

3 that is now on the screen doesn't look like an "S" at all; neither does

4 the "U." You know, try to write clearly, sir. We are going to be reading

5 these documents months after today.

6 Thank you.

7 MR. MUNDIS:

8 Q. Next photograph, please. Do you recognise anyone in these photos?

9 A. Abu Haris, Abdul Melik.

10 Q. Again, if you could, just perhaps one time -- it's stills from a

11 from a videotape. So if you could identify them once, I think that would

12 be sufficient.

13 A. [Marks].

14 Q. The next photograph, please. Do you recognise this individual?

15 A. This is a person I know from television. He's Abu Hamza, and half

16 of Bosnia knows him. I never saw him in the detachment. I've never met

17 him, and I didn't know him before, but I knew him in later times.

18 Q. Could you please write "Abu Hamza" underneath his photograph,

19 please.

20 A. [Marks]

21 Q. The next photograph, please. Do you recognise this individual?

22 A. Abu Aiman.

23 Q. Could you please write his name under the photograph?

24 A. [Marks]

25 Q. Next photograph, please. Do you recognise this person, sir?

1 A. Abdul Melik --

2 Q. Could you please write his name under the photograph?

3 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: "Abu Maali."

4 MR. MUNDIS:

5 Q. Next photograph, please. Do you recognise that individual, sir?

6 A. Abu Maali, also.

7 Q. The next photograph, please. Do you recognise this individual?

8 A. Again -- again, it's Abu Maali.

9 Q. Again, could you please write his name on the photograph?

10 A. [Marks]

11 Q. The next photograph, please. Do you recognise this individual?

12 A. No.

13 Q. The next photograph, please. Do you recognise this individual?

14 A. Muatez.

15 Q. Would you please write his name on the photograph, please?

16 A. [Marks]

17 Q. Next photograph. Do you recognise this individual?

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Excuse me. Do you know Muatez's other name, first

19 name or second name, depending on what "Muatez" is?

20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No, I don't.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

22 MR. MUNDIS:

23 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you recognise this individual?

24 A. No.

25 Q. And, finally, do you recognise this individual?

1 A. No.

2 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honour, we would ask that at least the bundle of

3 photos that the witness was able to identify, perhaps we can do it that

4 way. At this point, there's no need to admit the ones he doesn't

5 recognise, but certainly the ones he does recognise, we would ask that

6 those be placed into either one bundle, one exhibit; or if it's more

7 convenient, that they be individually numbered as exhibits.

8 JUDGE MOLOTO: The photographs that the witness has been able to

9 identify are admitted into evidence. May they please be admitted as a

10 bundle and be given a single exhibit number.

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 68.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

13 MR. MUNDIS: Next, I would ask that the witness be shown what was

14 previously marked as PT06166.

15 And perhaps this would be one that might be easier to do with the

16 electronic pen. I would ask if the usher could assist.

17 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you recognise anyone in this photograph?

18 A. Yes, I do.

19 Q. And can you please tell us who you recognise in this photograph?

20 A. Sheikh Enver Rahmetulali [as interpreted]; Abu Maali; Alija

21 Izetbegovic, the late Alija Izetbegovic; and Sakib Mahmuljin.

22 Q. I would ask you, sir, the transcript says Sheikh Enver

23 "Rahmetulali," and I'm not sure if the translators were able to hear you.

24 The "Sheik Enver" that you've made reference to, what was his full name,

25 if you know?

1 A. I just know that he was Sheikh Enver Saban. I don't know about

2 any other names.

3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

4 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if I can be of

5 assistance, he is saying "the late," "the late," every time he refers; and

6 that's what he says, "the late Sheikh," and that's what should have been

7 said.

8 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you very much.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Madam Vidovic.

10 Now, is it not possible for the witness to, again, identify these

11 people and link them?

12 MR. MUNDIS: Yes. I'm going to ask him to do that, Your Honour.

13 Thank you very much.

14 Q. Sir, Sheikh Enver Saban in this photograph, can you please place

15 the number "1" on the person -- or if you could draw a large number "1" on

16 the person you recognise at Sheikh Enver Saban.

17 JUDGE MOLOTO: This doesn't look like a "1" for later reading.

18 Can't he circle the head of the person and give a name on the side?

19 MR. MUNDIS: We could do that as well.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: That would be much more helpful.

21 MR. MUNDIS:

22 Q. Could you please circle the head of Sheikh Enver Saban?

23 A. [Marks]

24 Q. And maybe in the upper right corner, draw a line and write

25 "Saban."

1 A. [Marks]

2 Q. And the next person, I believe, that you identified, sir, was Abu

3 Maali. Could you please circle Abu Maali?

4 A. Yes. [Marks]

5 Q. And write his name, please.

6 A. [Marks]

7 Q. And the next person you recognised was the late Alija Izetbegovic.

8 Could you please circle him and write his name on the photograph, please.

9 A. [Marks]

10 Q. And, finally, Mr. Begovic, you indicated that you recognised Sakib

11 Mahmuljin. Could you please circle him and write his name.

12 A. [Marks]

13 Q. And, sir, I neglected to ask you earlier. Who is Sakib Mahmuljin?

14 A. He was the commander of the 3rd Corps. That much I know.

15 Q. And do you know in what time period he was the commander of the

16 3rd Corps, in which year or months or time frame?

17 A. No. No, I don't know that. It was towards the end of 1995 that

18 he was on that post; but when he assumed it, I don't know.

19 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask that this photograph be captured and that

20 it be given an exhibit number, please.

21 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just before we do that. Do you recognise nobody

22 else in this photograph, sir?

23 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] No.

24 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. The photograph is admitted

25 into evidence. May it please be captured and given an exhibit number.

1 THE REGISTRAR: Yes, Your Honour. That will be Exhibit number 69.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

3 MR. MUNDIS: And, perhaps, one last photograph before we take the

4 next break, PT06170. 06170.

5 Q. And, again, Mr. Begovic, do you recognise any of the people in

6 this photograph?

7 A. Yes, I do.

8 Q. I would ask you, sir, if you could tell us who you recognise, and

9 then we'll go through the same drill and have you circle their heads and

10 write their names on the photograph.

11 A. The late Alija Izetbegovic.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Circle his head and write his name, sir, please.

13 THE WITNESS: [Marks]

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.

15 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Sakib Mahmuljin; Abu Maali; Abu

16 Aiman. [Marks]

17 MR. MUNDIS: Again, Your Honours, I would ask that this image be

18 captured and be given an exhibit number and admitted into evidence,

19 please.

20 JUDGE MOLOTO: This picture is admitted into evidence. May it

21 please be captured and be given an exhibit number.

22 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 70.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

24 MR. MUNDIS: I'm looking at the clock, Your Honour.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: You don't have anything that you can do in two

1 minutes?

2 MR. MUNDIS: I don't think so. Perhaps we could shave off on the

3 other end and come back at 20 minutes to 6.00, give us a 27-minute recess

4 instead of 30.

5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Thank you very much. We will take recess

6 now and come back at 20 to 6.00.

7 Thank you very much.

8 --- Recess taken at 5.14 p.m.

9 --- On resuming at 5.41 p.m.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis.

11 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Mr. President.

12 Before I continue, I did promise the Trial Chamber I would provide

13 brief information on the provenance of Exhibit 67.

14 This document, at least based on a facial reading of page 3, was

15 produced by the El Mujahedin Detachment of the 3rd Corps of the Army of

16 the Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina. This document was seized by an

17 investigator of the Tribunal on 20 January 2005 from CSB Zenica, that's

18 the Security Services Centre in Zenica, on January 20, 2005. That's where

19 we got the document from.

20 I hope that satisfies Judge Harhoff.

21 JUDGE HARHOFF: It does. Thank you very much.

22 MR. MUNDIS: And before I proceed, I did speak with the Defence at

23 the break concerning this. With respect to Exhibit 69, which was about

24 two photos back that we looked at with the witness, in the event there's

25 any confusion in anyone's mind, the Prosecution will state for the record

1 that the accused is not depicted -- is not shown on that photograph, in

2 the event that there was any dispute or confusion about that.

3 The Prosecution, having spoken to the Defence, wants to alert the

4 Chamber to that fact, that the accused is not in any of the photographs

5 that we've been shown today.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Mundis.

7 We don't know the secret to the source of that; but if it was an

8 issue between the Prosecution and the Defence, that's fine.

9 I see Madam Vidovic smiles approvingly. Madam Vidovic, do you

10 have any comments to make?

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour. And I would like

12 to thank Mr. Mundis.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

14 You may proceed, Mr. Mundis.

15 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you, Your Honours.

16 Q. Mr. Begovic, let me just return to a topic we were speaking about

17 a little bit earlier, and that is training. And you told us, when you

18 first joined the El Mujahedin Detachment, that you underwent some

19 training. Can you tell the Trial Chamber where this training took place?

20 A. The training was in Orasovac --

21 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's correction: Orahovac.

22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] -- and it was in a village where

23 Croats used to live. They left after the military operation. And while

24 undergoing the training there, we were billeted in a couple of houses.

25 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: The village name is Orasac.

1 MR. MUNDIS:

2 Q. Other than this period when you were in Orasac, did you undergo

3 any additional training during the time period you were with the El

4 Mujahedin Detachment?

5 A. No.

6 Q. And, perhaps, I should have asked you this earlier, sir, but for

7 how long did you remain a member of the El Mujahedin Detachment after

8 joining the end of July, beginning of August, 1993?

9 A. Until the end of the war, or rather, until the Dayton Accords were

10 signed.

11 Q. And can you give the Trial Chamber a date that you were

12 demobilised or at least a month and year that you left that unit?

13 A. 1995, the time of the Dayton Accords. I don't know the exact

14 date.

15 Q. Do you remember what month of 1995 you left the unit?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Now, are you familiar with a location or a building known as

18 Vatrostalna?

19 A. Yes.

20 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber where this building is located?

21 A. The building is in the outskirts of Zenica. It is in the

22 territory of Zenica Municipality.

23 THE INTERPRETER: Can the witness speak a bit closer to the

24 microphone for the interpreters, please.

25 MR. MUNDIS: Sir, they're asking if you can perhaps move a little

1 bit closer to the microphones or perhaps speak a little louder for the

2 benefit of the interpreters.

3 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very well.

4 MR. MUNDIS:

5 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber, Mr. Begovic, why you are familiar

6 with the Vatrostalna building?

7 A. For a while, our command was moved there; the detachment command,

8 that is.

9 Q. Do you know, approximately, when the detachment command was

10 located in this building?

11 A. In 1994, I think, although I cannot be more precise.

12 Q. And how long did the detachment command remain in the Vatrostalna

13 building after moving there?

14 A. Until the end of the war.

15 Q. Can you tell us, sir, other than the location at Orasac and Zapode

16 and Vatrostalna, whether there were any other locations where the El

17 Mujahedin Detachment had camps or headquarters or training locations?

18 A. No.

19 Q. Are you familiar, sir, with a location known as the 13-kilometre

20 camp?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Did you ever go to that location?

23 A. Yes.

24 Q. Do you recall, approximately, how many times you went to that

25 location?

1 A. I don't know. On several occasions. I don't know how many,

2 though.

3 Q. Again, can you approximate? Was it five, ten, fifteen, thirty,

4 more than a hundred? Can you give us a rough approximation?

5 A. Perhaps, around ten times, I would pass by that; probably, I would

6 spend the night there on that occasion; and then move on.

7 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you recall --

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Do you recall the approximate time period when that location was

10 established, when that camp was established?

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Have we established that it is a camp?

12 MR. MUNDIS:

13 Q. Mr. Begovic, how would you characterise the 13-kilometre

14 installation or facility?

15 A. The Prosecutor mentioned the word "camp." I would call it a place

16 where we slept occasionally. There were tents. We would spend the night.

17 I think that would be a better description of it.

18 Q. Well, this 13-kilometre location, do you know approximately when

19 the El Mujahedin Detachment began using this location?

20 A. In 1995, when we received certain assignments at Vozuca [Realtime

21 transcript read in error "Vozuka"], perhaps, March or April 1995 --

22 THE INTERPRETER: Interpreter's note: The location name is

23 "Vozuca."

24 MR. MUNDIS: I wonder ask if the witness could be shown Map 21 in

25 the binder. This map bears ERN 0618-6716.

1 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, in a moment, I'll show a close-up map of this

2 area. But on this general map, if you're able to do so, could you

3 indicate the approximate location - and, again, using the electronic pen -

4 mark the approximate location of the 13-kilometre facility or location?

5 A. This map is not large enough for me to be able to see it.

6 MR. MUNDIS: Could we then go to Map 22, 0618-6717. Map 22,

7 0618-6717.

8 JUDGE HARHOFF: Mr. Mundis, is that an excerpt of 6716?

9 MR. MUNDIS: I don't believe -- if memory serves me, I don't

10 believe it's an excerpt. It's from a different-scale map of the same

11 location, if I'm not mistaken.

12 I will note, perhaps, by way of reference for the Trial Chamber,

13 at the top of Map 22, you can see the village of Borovnica; and if you

14 look at Map 21, Borovnica is in the centre, approximately two-thirds of

15 the way down on that map. So, yes, it is actually an excerpt.

16 JUDGE HARHOFF: I was just looking for that. Thank you.

17 MR. MUNDIS: Borovnica is a reference point on comparing the two

18 maps.

19 Q. Mr. Begovic, on this map, do you see the approximate location of

20 the 13-kilometre facility or location?

21 A. It says here the "12-kilometre," so if the scale is 1 to ..., it

22 should be somewhere here. [Indicating] There was a bridge behind it.

23 It's probably somewhere in the middle of this square.

24 Q. If you could please take the marker and indicate that by circling

25 the approximate location, to the best of your recollection.

1 A. This is a rather large circle, but somewhere there. [Marks]

2 Q. That's fine. If you could please write next to that the number

3 "13" and the letters "KM."

4 A. [Marks] "13," and what else?

5 Q. "KM."

6 A. [Marks]

7 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you very much. We ask this to be captured and

8 be admitted into evidence and given and exhibit number, please?

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much. May the map be captured and

10 be admitted into evidence, and may it please be given an exhibit number?

11 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that would be Exhibit number 71.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: While we are there, Mr. Mundis, Exhibit number 71

13 is a document 6717. You had placed earlier 6716. Are you going to do

14 anything about that one?

15 MR. MUNDIS: Well, perhaps, if the witness is able to make any

16 markings on that map, I'm not sure if he's able to do so, in light of his

17 earlier answer, but we don't need -- we don't need to have a blank map.

18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

19 MR. MUNDIS: We'll try that with other witnesses, perhaps.

20 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, you mentioned earlier that this location --

21 there were tents at this location. Can you tell the Trial Chamber whether

22 there were any other structures, or facilities, or buildings, or anything

23 else at this 13-kilometre location?

24 A. There were two or three demolished houses; nothing else.

25 Q. And on those occasions, when you went into that location, what

1 were the primary reasons you went there? Why did you go into that

2 location? What were you doing there?

3 A. Occasionally, we would sleep there. I think it was some sort of a

4 transit centre. We would assemble there before any action, when we would

5 be issued with weapons. It was a bit further away from the enemy lines,

6 and it was safe. That's why the location was probably chosen.

7 Q. Did you, sir, ever attend any meetings or any -- where any

8 discussions were held concerning operations or military operations?

9 A. No, I don't know of that.

10 Q. Do you know, sir, who was in charge of that location?

11 A. One of the Arabs, but they kept rotating. I cannot say exactly.

12 Q. Let me turn your attention, sir, to operations in -- military

13 operations in 1995.

14 Can you tell the Trial Chamber whether you were personally

15 involved in any military operations in 1995?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. Let's focus our attention, sir, on what might be considered more

18 major or important military operations. How many such military operations

19 were you personally involved in, in 1995?

20 A. At Vozuca, there were three operations that I participated in, or

21 action. I would call it an action. This is usually referred to as

22 "operation." However, I believe an operation is a larger thing than a

23 simple military action.

24 Q. Okay. Can you give the Trial Chamber rough approximations, then,

25 these three actions you were involved in, the time periods? When was the

1 first action, approximately?

2 A. Approximately, in May of 1995.

3 Q. And the second action, the approximate time period?

4 A. In June -- no, in July 1995.

5 Q. And the third action?

6 A. The third one was in September 1995.

7 Q. Okay. In a few moments, I'll ask you more specific questions

8 about these three actions.

9 MR. MUNDIS: But before we do that, I would ask that the witness

10 be shown Map 11 from the Court binder bearing ERN number 0618-6706.

11 That's Map 11, 0618-6706.

12 Q. Now, Witness, do you see the map in front of you?

13 A. Yes, I do, but I can't make out anything on it. It's far too

14 small.

15 Q. Okay.

16 MR. MUNDIS: If we could perhaps start with the left-hand side of

17 the map, if we could just blow that up for a moment, please.

18 Your Honours, in order to save time, this map, in effect, serves

19 as an overview for what we'll be discussing with the witness for the rest

20 of the day. And I'm going to ask him, with the Court's permission, to

21 mark a number of locations, even though we haven't gotten in the testimony

22 to those locations, simply so that we have an overview map of all the

23 things he'll be talking about for the rest of the day, if that's

24 acceptable to the Trial Chamber.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's acceptable if there's no objection.

1 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour, none.

2 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

3 MR. MUNDIS: If we could then go up a little bit on the map,

4 please.

5 Q. Now, Witness, again, if you could take the electronic pen and

6 circle, if you see it on the map, can you circle Zavidovici?

7 A. Should I encircle only the letters, "Zavidovici," or the entire

8 city -- the town?

9 Q. The town, please.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis, before the witness marks, I'm advised

11 that once you've made the markings, you'll not be able to move the map

12 around.

13 MR. MUNDIS: Okay. Then we'll do it in two bits, if that's

14 acceptable.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. Maybe mark what you can mark on this one and

16 then we will --

17 MR. MUNDIS: Exactly.

18 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you also see the village of Brezik?

19 A. I don't. Here it is. Is this what you had in mind? [Indicating]

20 Q. If you could circle Brezik, please.

21 A. [Marks]

22 Q. Thank you. Now, if you see the village of Livade on this map, I

23 would ask you to circle that as well.

24 A. I don't see it.

25 Q. Perhaps in the upper right-hand corner?

1 A. I really don't see it. Perhaps you can direct me.

2 Q. That's okay. Do you see Stog on this map?

3 A. Here it is. [Indicating] Is this it?

4 Q. Go ahead and circle Stog if you see it.

5 A. [Marks]

6 Q. Do you see the feature known as Paljenik?

7 A. Yes. Here it is. [Indicating]

8 Q. If you could circle that, please.

9 A. [Marks]

10 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask that this image be captured and it be

11 given an exhibit number, please.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: This map will be admitted into evidence --

13 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.

14 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit number 72.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much for doing that. I was not on

16 the microphone. I was going to say, "This map is admitted into evidence.

17 May it please be given an exhibit number."

18 Thank you for having done so.

19 MR. MUNDIS: And if we could then perhaps take that same map, a

20 blank copy of that same map.

21 If we could please have the upper -- yeah, if we could capture the

22 kind of middle-upper part of the map. Perhaps a little bit up and a

23 little bit to the right. That's fine.

24 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see the map in front of you now?

25 A. Yes.

1 Q. Are you now able to locate the village of Livade?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Could you please circle Livade on this map.

4 A. [Marks]

5 Q. Are you able, sir, on this map to see the village of Krcevine; and

6 if so, could you circle that.

7 A. Yes. [Marks]

8 Q. And if you're able, sir, to see the village of Kesten, could you

9 please circle that.

10 A. [Marks]

11 Q. And, finally, if you're able to see the feature known as

12 Podsjelovo. Podsjelovo. Do you see that feature on the map?

13 A. I do.

14 Q. Could you please circle that feature?

15 A. [Marks]

16 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask, Your Honours, that this image be

17 captured and be given an exhibit number and admitted into evidence,

18 please.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: This picture is admitted into evidence. May it

20 please be given an exhibit number.

21 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 73.

22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

23 Sorry. Mr. Registrar, what was Exhibit 72?

24 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit 72 was the first part of the same map.

25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Oh, I beg your pardon. Okay. Thank you very much.

1 MR. MUNDIS:

2 Q. Mr. Begovic, I'd now like to turn your attention to what you

3 described as the first action, which you told us took place in May 1995.

4 Can you briefly tell the Trial Chamber, sir, what preparatory

5 steps your unit took in the period immediately preceding this first action

6 in May 1995?

7 A. We came to the territory of Zavidovici. At first, we were housed

8 in the houses at Livade. I think it was during the winter right after New

9 Year's. It was cold. There were no leaves on the trees; therefore, we

10 were unable to conduct any military activities. One could see everything.

11 Right after our arrival, we had a simulated attack in the area of

12 Podsjelovo. One of our soldiers was killed there, and two got wounded.

13 Q. Let me just interrupt. What was the purpose of this simulated

14 attack? Why did you simulate an attack in the area of Podsjelovo?

15 A. I don't know exactly. It was right upon our arrival. I don't

16 know what the purpose was.

17 From that time until May, we were preparing for the action. We

18 were doing reconnaissance, preparing the roads. We did physical

19 preparation, religious preparation, and everything that was necessary for

20 us to successfully carry out that action.

21 Q. And against what military force or forces was that action to be

22 directed?

23 A. Against Serb forces.

24 Q. Against the VRS?

25 A. Well, yes.

1 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber when this action commenced?

2 A. In May 1995; in the second half of 1995, after trees began

3 sprouting leaves.

4 Q. Immediately prior to this action starting, did you have any

5 occasion to be in the 13-kilometre location?

6 A. Yes, I did.

7 Q. For what purpose?

8 A. We were there before the action. We were being assigned to our

9 respective combat groups, being issued with weapons, and so on and so

10 forth. And from there, we proceeded to our starting points.

11 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, for this action in May 1995, what combat group

12 were you assigned to?

13 A. I was in a reserve group for this action, and my emir was Fikret

14 Murtic.

15 Q. And can you briefly tell us what action the reserve group was to

16 carry out in this action in May 1995?

17 A. Well, the reserve groups were to be fed into the line positions

18 after the first initial stormers had charged the line and had penetrated

19 it, and they were there then to possess it.

20 Q. And can you tell us about the day the action commenced? What

21 happened on that day, from the time you woke up until the action began?

22 A. I don't know exactly at what time we set out towards Paljenik; but

23 as we were approaching it, that is to say, before Podsjelovo, most of us

24 were saying our morning prayers, the Sabah Namaz, and then we approached

25 as far as we could the enemy's trenches.

1 Q. From where did you start on that day? Where did you -- where did

2 you say your morning prayers? Where had you slept the night before?

3 A. I don't remember exactly where we were, but the morning prayers

4 were conducted just in front of the line.

5 MR. MUNDIS: Can the witness please be shown Map 18 from the Court

6 binder. It bears ERN number 0618-6713. Map 18, 0618-6713.

7 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, I understand it was a long time ago, but can

8 you, on this map, identify and draw a line at the approximate location

9 where the VRS forces were when this May 1995 action began?

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Yes, Madam Vidovic.

11 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Objection, Your Honour. Of course,

12 if the witness knows that.

13 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis.

14 MR. MUNDIS: Yes. I completely agree, if the witness knows. If

15 he doesn't know, I'm sure he will tell us that he doesn't know.

16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Begovic.

17 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] The army of the Republika Srpska was

18 around Podsjelovo, where it says here on the map "Podsjelovo." I could

19 not mark their exact location. I'm unable to do that.

20 MR. MUNDIS:

21 Q. Can you give us an approximate location of the line as it existed

22 when the May 1995 action commenced?

23 A. Well, I'm no expert on maps. I couldn't. I'm not able to do

24 that.

25 MR. MUNDIS: That's fine.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Mr. Mundis, if I can just ask the witness.

2 On this Exhibit 6713, you're saying they were around Podsjelovo.

3 Can you mark Podsjelovo there on the map?

4 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Yes. I can only encircle here where

5 it says "Podsjelovo" on the map.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Please do.

7 THE WITNESS: [Marks]

8 MR. MUNDIS:

9 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, on the day the May 1995 action began, where was

10 your combat group in the morning? Where did you start from?

11 A. We set out from Livade. There was a road leading from Livade to

12 Podsjelovo.

13 Q. Would you please, if you see it on the map, underline the name of

14 the village Livade?

15 A. Shall I encircle it?

16 Q. That's fine.

17 A. [Marks]

18 Q. Now, you indicated that there was a road leading from Livade to

19 Podsjelovo. What was the significance of --

20 A. A road, which is to say a pedestrian path, rather, a dirt road.

21 Q. And what is the significance of this pedestrian path or dirt road

22 with respect to what happened on this day in 1995?

23 A. We executed some repairs on this road so that these four-by-fours

24 could use it, in order for us to be able to pull out our wounded, but it

25 was of no particular significance either before or after that particular

1 action.

2 Q. And can you tell the Trial Chamber approximately how long this

3 action required? How long was the action on that day?

4 A. At most, half an hour, and the forces of the Bosnian Serbs were

5 then pushed away from the area of Podsjelovo. They were repelled.

6 Q. And after these Bosnian Serb forces were repelled, where did your

7 combat group go? What did you do?

8 A. We were there in the field around Podsjelovo, perhaps in the

9 centre of Podsjelovo. We stayed there for about six days. We dug

10 trenches, we fortified our positions, and so ...

11 Q. And then where did you go after you were there for about six days?

12 A. After having spent six days there, we were supposed to go to our

13 respective homes for a rest, because we had spent some 30 to 40 days out

14 in the field.

15 Q. And, Mr. Begovic, these positions that you fortified, what -- did

16 any military unit take up the positions which you fortified on Podsjelovo?

17 A. When we set out to go home for our furloughs, a unit arrived there

18 to take up a part of the line, but also some of our own people, our own

19 people, remained there. Now, whether it was the Zavidovici Brigade, I am

20 not sure.

21 Q. And what, sir, was your role in this first action?

22 A. I was, as I told you, an ordinary soldier, and I was on the

23 reserve force. So I have nothing to add to that or to take away from

24 that.

25 Q. Let's turn now, Mr. Begovic, to the second action, which you told

1 us was in July 1995.

2 What was your role in the July 1995 military action?

3 A. The emir of my group was killed in this action at Podsjelovo,

4 after which I was appointed emir of that group.

5 Q. And when you say, Mr. Begovic, you were "appointed emir of the

6 group," do you remember or recall who appointed you the emir of the group?

7 A. I'm not sure. Probably Muatez, the people in charge of the

8 detachment. At any rate, after I had returned from the rest, I was just

9 informed that thereafter I would be the emir of that group.

10 Q. And at that point in time, when you were appointed the emir of

11 that combat group, how many men were in your combat group?

12 A. Between 15 and 20, not more.

13 Q. And with respect, Mr. Begovic, to the July 1995 action, what task

14 was your combat group assigned to carry out?

15 A. We were assigned with the duty of penetrating the enemy lines at a

16 certain spot and to reach a certain place.

17 Q. Do you recall where you were to penetrate the enemy lines and what

18 place you were to reach?

19 A. The place was called Trigonometre or something like that. I don't

20 know the exact name. We were supposed to reach the area after the village

21 of -- we were supposed to reach the villages of Krcevine and Kesten.

22 Q. I'll ask you about that in just a moment, and we'll we look at

23 another map. But first I would like to ask you how it was -- who gave you

24 the assignment to reach the area of Krcevine and Kesten.

25 A. It was Muatez, our emir, who issued us these tasks.

1 Q. And where were you when these tasks were assigned to you?

2 A. I did not understand the question.

3 Q. When Muatez assigned this task or these tasks to your combat

4 group, to you, where were you?

5 A. I was with my people. I was with the group.

6 Q. How was this tasking given to you?

7 A. We reconnoitered the area before the action. We were preparing

8 the action like we did the time before, when we were doing it in respect

9 of Podsjelovo. And I went many times to this place where we were supposed

10 to carry out our attack and did some reconnoitering and preparatory action

11 of that kind.

12 Q. Okay. Let me try to make myself clear about what I'm asking you.

13 When you got this tasking, were you in the field, were you at the

14 13-kilometre? Where were you when Muatez gave you this assignment to go

15 to Krcevine and Kesten?

16 A. Muatez?

17 Q. Muatez, yes.

18 A. It was from the 13th that we were getting ready to go. That is

19 where we were being issued with weapons and assigning people to their

20 respective groups. It was from there that we set out. That's where we

21 were during the night. But from which exact point we set out, I cannot

22 remember with precision.

23 Q. And when you were at the 13th kilometre, being issued weapons and

24 assigning people, were there only soldiers of the El Mujahedin Detachment

25 at the 13-kilometre, or were there any soldiers from any other units there

1 immediately before the July 1995 action?

2 A. There may have been some soldiers there, but they did not

3 participate in the actual action with us. They may have been assigned to

4 pull out the wounded or later to take up the line, but I don't know that.

5 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask now that the witness be shown Map 19 from

6 the Court binder, 0618-6714. Oh, yes. Sorry.

7 If we could capture the map on the screen, I would ask that that

8 be admitted into evidence.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: The map on the screen is admitted into evidence.

10 May it please be given an exhibit number.

11 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit number 74.

12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

13 MR. MUNDIS: And, now, if we could please have Map 19, which bears

14 ERN 0618-6714.

15 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, do you see the map on the screen in front of

16 you?

17 A. Yes.

18 Q. Can you please tell us, on the July 1995 second action, where your

19 combat group started from on that day?

20 A. Probably from Svinjasnica, over here in the direction of Kesten.

21 Q. And can you, please, if you see it on the map, underline or circle

22 Svinjasnica.

23 A. [Marks]

24 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, can you please tell the Trial Chamber what

25 happened with respect to the action that was undertaken in July 1995 by

1 the combat group of which you were the emir?

2 MS. VIDOVIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, if something did

3 happen. That is my objection.

4 MR. MUNDIS: Let me try this.

5 Q. Mr. Begovic, in July 1995, this second action, did it actually

6 take place? Did it actually start?

7 A. Yes, it did.

8 Q. Can you tell us approximately when in July, whether it was

9 beginning, middle, end?

10 A. I don't know exactly what part of the month it was.

11 Q. You told us a few minutes ago, as reflected on page 80, line 6,

12 that there was a location known as Trigonometre, "or something like that,"

13 you said. Do you see that location on this map?

14 A. No.

15 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber what your combat group did and

16 where it went in July 1995 while undertaking this action?

17 A. There were still combat groups penetrating the line in a number of

18 places, which we managed to penetrate in about half an hour. And we

19 advanced, that is to say, my group advanced as far as the village of

20 Kesten.

21 Q. Can you please, sir, circle the village of Kesten?

22 A. [Marks]

23 Q. Do you remember, Mr. Begovic, the approximate route that your

24 combat group took in going from Svinjasnica to Kesten?

25 A. I cannot say that with precision. I can just draw a straight

1 line, but not the actual route through the field.

2 Q. Okay. That would be perfect, then, under these circumstances. If

3 you could draw a straight arrow, simply indicating the direction that your

4 unit, your combat group went in the July 1995 action.

5 A. [Marks]

6 Q. And please put arrowheads on there to indicate which direction you

7 went, so that we can later make sense of this map.

8 A. [Marks]

9 Q. And if you could please put a number "1" next to that arrow.

10 Right below it, if you could write the number "1."

11 A. [Marks]

12 Q. Now, approximately, how long did your combat group remain in

13 Kesten on that day?

14 A. We were there, not in the village proper, but at a hill after the

15 village for some four to five days, staying at the line, also digging

16 trenches, fortifying positions.

17 Q. During this time period, when this action took place, and in the

18 four or five days afterwards, at any point in time did you have any

19 communication with Muatez?

20 A. Well, there were some others there, too. There were some Bosniak

21 lads that we liaised with, had communication with. I don't remember

22 whether I actually talked to Muatez as well.

23 Q. Who were these "Bosniak lads" that you liaised with and had

24 communication with?

25 A. Well, we were often in touch with Adnan Pezo and with Muatez as

1 well.

2 Q. And for the benefit of the Trial Chamber, who is Adnan Pezo?

3 A. Well, he was a Bosniak who was slightly more higher ranking than

4 the rest of us in the detachment were. What his actual duty was, however,

5 I don't know.

6 Q. Mr. Begovic, after your unit or your combat group, excuse me,

7 remained in the Kesten vicinity for a few days, where did you go next?

8 A. After that, we went to Livade by way of Krcevine again; and then

9 from Livade, we went to -- we went home.

10 Q. Okay. Could you please circle Krcevine on the map?

11 A. [Marks]

12 Q. And, again, draw an approximate arrow from Kesten to Krcevine,

13 indicating the direction that your unit went in leaving Kesten, and place

14 the number "2" next to that arrow, please.

15 A. [Marks]

16 Q. And I understand that Livade is not on this map, but if you could

17 please draw an arrow from Krcevine in the general direction of Livade, and

18 then place a number "3" next to that arrow, please.

19 A. Well, I don't see well enough to be able to indicate the

20 direction. I don't know the exact direction. I don't see Livade on the

21 map, and I can't do it.

22 There were so many roads here in this area that one could take,

23 that one could walk on.

24 Q. Okay. Let's turn our attention, then, to the third action, as

25 you've described it, which you told us was September -- well, before I do

1 that, Mr. Begovic, were you aware of any -- other than this July 1995

2 action that we've talked about right now, to your knowledge, were there

3 any other military actions in the vicinity of Krcevine and Kesten after

4 the action you've told us about in July 1995?

5 A. No, I don't know that. I know nothing about anything of the kind.

6 Q. Let's turn, then, sir, to the third action.

7 JUDGE HARHOFF: Before we do so, Mr. Mundis, I'm not exactly sure

8 if we have heard a lot of what happened, actually, in Kesten. We heard

9 that the witness's combat group took off from Svinjasnica and moved

10 towards Kesten, but what happened there? Was there actually combat

11 activities? Was there Serb resistance in Kesten, and did you drive them

12 out? What happened?

13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Those villages were empty. There

14 were no troops there, there were no villagers there; and then they were

15 small, it was just five or six houses. And the same goes for Krcevine, it

16 was just a matter of five or six houses; not more than that.

17 JUDGE HARHOFF: Maybe I was misled to expect that there would have

18 been some real combat activities, but that was not the case, I understand.

19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Proceed, Mr. Mundis.

20 MR. MUNDIS: Thank you.

21 Q. Before I turn to September 1995, Mr. Begovic, do you know the

22 location that you told us, that you remained around Kesten for four or

23 five days, what location or feature were you at during that time period

24 when you remained in the vicinity of Kesten?

25 A. I don't know exactly what the name of the locality was. It was

1 right outside Kesten.

2 Q. Do you see or can you mark with an "X" the location just outside

3 Kesten where you were for these four days or so?

4 A. I'm not able to do that. I don't know where we were exactly.

5 MR. MUNDIS: I would ask that this map be captured and admitted

6 into evidence.

7 JUDGE MOLOTO: The map is captured, and it is admitted into

8 evidence. May it please be given an exhibit number.

9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 75.

10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

11 Yes, Mr. Mundis.

12 MR. MUNDIS:

13 Q. Let's turn now, Mr. Begovic, to the September 1995 action.

14 What was your role with respect to that military action in

15 September of 1995?

16 A. The same. I was the emir of a combat group. I participated in

17 the action at Paljenik.

18 Q. And, again, Mr. Begovic, with respect to this military action,

19 September 1995, how many men were in your combat group?

20 A. Up to 20, the same. The number remained.

21 Q. And were the 20 men in your combat group Bosniaks, or Bosniaks and

22 Arabs? What was the makeup of your combat group?

23 A. Before any action, an Arab or two would be added to the groups.

24 Otherwise, when there were no combat actions, there would only be Bosniaks

25 in the groups.

1 Q. Do you know, Mr. Begovic, why an Arab or two would be added to the

2 groups before action?

3 A. Or more than two. I don't know.

4 Q. With respect to the September 1995 action, what was the tasking or

5 assignment given to your combat group?

6 A. My group was tasked with breaking through the lines at Paljenik

7 and to take control of it.

8 Q. And, again, sir, who gave you that assignment or task?

9 A. Muatez.

10 Q. Where was he when he gave you that tasking?

11 A. I don't remember.

12 MR. MUNDIS: Perhaps, if the witness can be shown Map 12 from the

13 Court binder, 0618-6707, please.

14 Q. Mr. Begovic, while that's coming up onto the screen, can you

15 please tell the Trial Chamber where your combat group was -- well, let me

16 ask a preparatory question: This September 1995 action, did it actually

17 take place? Did it actually occur?

18 A. Yes.

19 Q. And on the day -- do you remember the date of that combat action

20 or military action?

21 A. No.

22 Q. On the day that this action began, where was your combat group

23 first thing in the morning? Where did you start from?

24 A. Again, from Svinjasnica.

25 MR. MUNDIS: Now, perhaps, if we could have this map enlarged in

1 the centre part of the map.

2 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see the location Svinjasnica, where your unit

3 started from?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Can you please circle that location using the electronic pen?

6 A. [Marks]

7 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, you told us that your task was to go to the

8 location known as Paljenik. Do you see that on the map?

9 A. I do.

10 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber what happened on that day with

11 respect to the tasking that you had been given?

12 A. My group successfully carried out the assignment given to it. We

13 pushed the enemy back away from the area of Paljenik.

14 Q. Can you please circle Paljenik on the map, if you see it?

15 A. [Marks]

16 Q. And, again, can you please draw an arrow and place the number "1"

17 next to it, to indicate the general direction your unit went in on that

18 day in reaching Paljenik?

19 A. Do you want a straight line again?

20 Q. Exactly, please.

21 A. [Marks]

22 Q. And if you could draw little arrowheads and the number "1" next to

23 that, please.

24 A. [Marks]

25 Q. Now, how long did it take your combat group to take the Paljenik

1 feature?

2 A. Half an hour, maybe less.

3 Q. And how long after taking that feature did your combat group

4 remain on Paljenik?

5 A. We stayed for about two or three hours, sometime after noon.

6 Q. During the time period that you were on this feature, Paljenik,

7 did you have any communication with the emir or military emir of the El

8 Mujahedin Detachment?

9 A. I did.

10 Q. And can you tell the Trial Chamber what you were told to do and by

11 whom?

12 A. Once we managed to occupy the Paljenik elevation, we went to the

13 other side of the hill, and Emir told us to stay there for a while, until

14 further notice.

15 Q. And when you say "Emir," which emir told you that?

16 A. Muatez.

17 Q. And how long did you stay on the other side of the hill, pending

18 this further communication?

19 A. We stayed for about an hour or two, and then the emir, Muatez,

20 ordered that we continue further down towards the road.

21 Q. And when you say "down towards the road," was there any particular

22 point at the road that you were directed to go towards?

23 A. Later, I found out that the place was called Stog, but at first I

24 didn't know where we were heading to.

25 Q. If you see the place called Stog on this map, could you please

1 circle it?

2 A. The letters are very small. I think this is it. [Marks]

3 Q. And, again, could you please draw a straight arrow and place a

4 circle and a "2" on it, to indicate the general direction your combat unit

5 went in from Paljenik to Stog?

6 A. [Marks]

7 Q. And place the number "2" next to that, please.

8 A. [Marks]

9 MR. MUNDIS: Mr. President, I would ask that this image be

10 captured, given an exhibit number, and be admitted into evidence, please.

11 JUDGE MOLOTO: This image is admitted into evidence. May it

12 please be captured and be given an exhibit number.

13 THE REGISTRAR: That will be Exhibit number 76.

14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.

15 MR. MUNDIS:

16 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic, do you know why your combat group was ordered to

17 go to Stog?

18 A. I don't know why we got the order then. It was only logical for

19 us to come down the hill and to the road.

20 Q. At any point on that day in September 1995, did you see your

21 military emir, Muatez?

22 A. I did. I saw him in Stog.

23 Q. Did you speak to him in Stog on that occasion?

24 A. No.

25 Q. How long did you remain in Stog on that day?

1 A. We arrived in Stog in the afternoon. We were told - I don't know

2 by whom - that Alija Izetbegovic was to come to visit us, together with

3 Sakib Mahmuljin. However, we waited there until it got dark, and it

4 didn't happen. We were then told to go home to rest. It was usually like

5 that. After every action, we were allowed to go home to rest.

6 Q. And did you, in fact, on that evening, go home to rest?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Where did you go? When you say "home," where did you go?

9 A. Home, my home.

10 Q. Suhi Dol?

11 A. Yes, Suhi Dol.

12 MR. MUNDIS: Okay. Now, I would ask, with the assistance of the

13 usher, the witness be shown document PT02152. PT02152.

14 Q. Mr. Begovic, do you see this document in front of you? You see

15 the document on the screen in front of you, sir?

16 A. Yes.

17 Q. You were shown this document yesterday, and that was the first

18 time you had ever seen it; is that correct?

19 A. Yes, I never saw it before that.

20 Q. Do you see your name on this document, sir?

21 A. Yes.

22 Q. Can you tell the Trial Chamber the number that's next to your

23 name, and for the record?

24 A. 37 -- 36. 36, "Begovic."

25 Q. Now, Mr. Begovic --

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Wait a minute. Is that 36? I see 36 is "Begovic,

2 Mehmedalija."

3 MR. MUNDIS: That is the father's name, Your Honour.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Sinan.

5 MR. MUNDIS: Sinan.

6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.

7 MR. MUNDIS: The column in the middle is the father's name, and

8 then the name of the actual person.

9 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's fine. Thank you.

10 MR. MUNDIS:

11 Q. Mr. Begovic, could you indicate, as in the earlier list - and this

12 will be the last document we show you today - could you please indicate

13 the numbers next to the corresponding names of individuals whom you served

14 with in the El Mujahedin Detachment during the period you were with that

15 unit, please? Just the numbers.

16 A. The people I know; is that what you mean?

17 Q. Exactly, the names of the people you know.

18 A. Very well. 4, 9, 10, 11, 13, 14, 22, 27, 32, 45, 50.

19 Q. If you could go to the next page, please.

20 A. 77, 78, 87, 94, 95, 98, 112.

21 Q. Next page, please.

22 A. 116, 130, 141, 157, 172.

23 Q. Next page, please.

24 A. There are no numbers here.

25 Q. If you could indicate the names of anyone that you know who's

1 contained on this page.

2 A. Raif Omerovic, Abdumelik Basic, Ishak Aganovic, Adil Bosnic, Omer

3 Basic, Dzevad Rujanac, Mirna Sagic [phoen], Ramiz Hodzic, Azir Begonovic,

4 Enver Kozlic. That's it.

5 Q. Finally, the last page of the document, please.

6 MR. MUNDIS: And for the record, this is the document bearing ERN

7 number 0416-0654, simply because some of the numbers may be the same from

8 the previous pages.

9 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Number 1, number 6, number 12, 13,

10 17, 24, 28, 31. That's it.

11 MR. MUNDIS: Your Honour, I note the time. I have two more

12 documents to show the witness, which I would propose we do tomorrow. It

13 shouldn't take me more than ten minutes to complete the direct

14 examination. I apologise for going longer than I had anticipated.

15 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Mundis.

16 Mr. Begovic, you are still going to come back here tomorrow, and

17 you are still under oath, so make sure that you don't communicate with

18 anybody about the case.

19 The Court will adjourn until tomorrow at quarter past 2.00 in

20 Courtroom I, not here.

21 MR. MUNDIS: If I could, Your Honour, before you rise, I would

22 tender this document into evidence. I don't want to leave that.

23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Okay. You've been turning pages here. Is it the

24 one document?

25 MR. MUNDIS: It is indeed.

1 JUDGE MOLOTO: May this document be admitted into evidence and be

2 given an exhibit number, please.

3 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, that will be Exhibit number 77.

4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.

5 Court adjourns.

6 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 7.04 p.m.,

7 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 12th day of

8 July, 2007, at 2.15 p.m.

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