Page 5561
1 Friday, 5 June 2009
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.03 a.m.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. Mr. Behar.
6 MR. BEHAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Our next witness is
7 Hysni Kryeziu.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
9 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]
10 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Good morning, Your Honours. I
12 have an administrative issue to raise as the first thing of the morning.
13 In the OTP's pre-trial brief they put forth the witnesses to be
14 heard under 92 bis proposing that there be no cross-examination. In that
15 brief, they stated all of the statements that fall within Rule 92 bis per
16 witness. Since this is the end of the week and we only have one witness
17 left, Mr. Stamp sent an e-mail yesterday with certain proposals that were
18 accepted by Defence, and that part of it is fine.
19 But again there's something I noticed, it is the following:
20 Certain statements that were in the 92 bis package in the pre-trial brief
21 are now missing from the list. And we said whatever was on the list was
22 part of the package, and what is not does not need to be made part of the
23 package. Everything that was contained in the pre-trial brief under 92
24 bis should be contained on this list as well.
25 If you had not allowed those witnesses to be cross-examined, all
Page 5562
1 of those statements would have made it in anyhow. Therefore, those
2 statements should not be omitted as the Prosecutor is seeking to have now
3 because they were part of the earlier package.
4 That was my objection concerning their conduct.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Behar, this is not the first time this issue
6 has arisen.
7 MR. BEHAR: Yes, and, Your Honours, I'm not sure exactly of the
8 nature of the specific complaint in this case.
9 JUDGE PARKER: The complaint is that you are not tendering some
10 of the statements or past transcript of this witness which was put
11 forward in the motion that the witness be a 92 bis witness.
12 MR. BEHAR: And is that relating to Mr. Kryeziu, or is that
13 relating to future witnesses? I'm not sure what the reference is.
14 JUDGE PARKER: It must be to the present witness, as I understand
15 it.
16 MR. BEHAR: Perhaps then if I could have a moment to review it.
17 I'm not sure actually which exhibit my friend is referring to.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Can you tell us, Mr. Djurdjic, which statement or
19 past transcript is not now included?
20 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I opened the
21 pre-trial brief package relating to the next witness, Hani Hoxha, I
22 believe, and the Milutinovic transcript --
23 JUDGE PARKER: Can you identify the missing statement or
24 transcript?
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] The Milosevic transcript.
Page 5563
1 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Enough said. Not your baby,
2 Mr. Behar.
3 MR. BEHAR: Yes, thank you. And I thank my friend, I think that
4 clears it up.
5 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, we will ask whichever of your colleagues we
6 can expect next to look at it before we finish this witness so that we
7 can be advised specifically about the reason, if any, for the omission of
8 the transcript in the Milosevic trial.
9 MR. BEHAR: Yes, thank you.
10 JUDGE PARKER: Because normally, documents were put forward for
11 admission under 92 bis, we've allowed that, but subject to
12 cross-examination in the case of this coming witness; and normally,
13 therefore, the documents you put forward would be part of the evidence
14 once tendered.
15 MR. BEHAR: Yes, I appreciate that. Thank you.
16 JUDGE PARKER: We'll move on then, Mr. Behar, and have something
17 looked at before the witness arrives. Now, your witness is not that one,
18 but Mr. Kryeziu.
19 MR. BEHAR: Yes. Thank you.
20 [The witness entered court]
21 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning. If you wish, you can be seated
22 straightaway, but we would ask you to read aloud the affirmation shown to
23 you. Sorry, you can be seated straightaway, if you wish, but we would
24 also ask you to read aloud an affirmation. Thank you.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
Page 5564
1 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
2 WITNESS: HYSNI KRYEZIU
3 [Witness answered through interpreter]
4 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much. Please sit down.
5 Mr. Behar has some questions for you.
6 MR. BEHAR: Thank you, Your Honours.
7 Examination by Mr. Behar:
8 Q. Good morning, sir, thank you for joining us this morning. If you
9 could please state your full name and your date of birth for the record.
10 A. Good morning. My name is Hysni Kryeziu. And I was born on the
11 12th of April, 1949, in Reti village, Rahovec municipality, and I live in
12 the ex-Dushanove village.
13 Q. Thank you, sir, and I understand that you are currently living in
14 Switzerland
15 A. Yes, that's correct.
16 Q. I understand, sir, that you gave an initial statement to the
17 Office of the Prosecutor on the 14th of May, 1999, about the events that
18 you experienced in Kosovo; is that correct?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. I understand as well that you provided a very brief additional
21 statement to the Office of the Prosecutor on the 19th of September, 2001
22 is that correct?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Have you had the chance to read those statements before coming to
25 court today?
Page 5565
1 A. Yes, I had.
2 Q. I understand, sir, that you did make a number of corrections to
3 your statement of the 14th of May, 1999, when you testified in the
4 Milutinovic case; but I wanted to ask you, with the exception of those
5 changes, are you satisfied that the information that's contained in the
6 two statements that I've just mentioned is true and accurate to the best
7 of your knowledge and belief?
8 A. Yes, I am.
9 Q. Thank you.
10 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I would seek to tender those two
11 statements. I can indicate they are both under 65 ter number 02514.
12 JUDGE PARKER: The statements of the 14th of May, 1999, and the
13 19th of September, 2001, will be admitted.
14 MR. BEHAR: Thank you.
15 THE REGISTRAR: 14th of May, 1999, Your Honours, will be signed
16 P00876; and the 19th of September, 2001 will be assigned P00877,
17 Your Honours.
18 MR. BEHAR:
19 Q. Sir, do you recall testifying at the trial of Mr. Milutinovic on
20 the 29th and the 30th of November, 2006?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. And have you had a chance to review the transcript of your
23 testimony in that trial, or more specifically, to go through it with a
24 language interpreter?
25 A. Yes.
Page 5566
1 Q. Does that transcript accurately reflect your evidence, and would
2 you testify to the same facts today?
3 A. Yes.
4 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I would seek to tender that transcript
5 at 65 ter number 05030, please.
6 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
7 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned P00878, Your Honours.
8 MR. BEHAR: Just before we move on, I can indicate, Your Honours,
9 there was an exhibit that was referred to by the Prosecution at page 7546
10 of the transcript in which Mr. Kryeziu identified a number of vehicles
11 that were used by Serb forces. I can indicate that exhibit was P01325 in
12 Milutinovic. It's already been admitted in this case as P00318.
13 I can now provide a brief summary of Mr. Kryeziu's evidence for
14 the Court.
15 Mr. Kryeziu describes activities by Serb forces in Dushanove, a
16 neighborhood of Prizren, from spring 1998 to March 1999. He explains
17 that the area was often surrounded by Serb police and VJ with tanks and
18 are armoured vehicles. He also describes how in August of 1998, the Serb
19 police commander, Milos Scekic, came to his house while collecting
20 weapons and threatened to burn down houses in the village as he had done
21 in other villages.
22 Soon after, Serb police in dark blue uniforms and camouflage
23 uniforms surrounded the village and then physically beat Mr. Kryeziu and
24 his son.
25 Mr. Kryeziu also describes the events of the 28th of March, 1999
Page 5567
1 At that time, large numbers of Serb police and VJ again surrounded his
2 village and started to fire their weapons. They shouted at the residents
3 to go to Albania
4 belong to Albania
5 THE INTERPRETER: Kindly slow down when reading, thank you.
6 MR. BEHAR: Mr. Kryeziu describes the whole village moving into a
7 convoy. He and his family left the village with the convoy, in their
8 car. He describes being stopped by police about 500 metres away and
9 recognising police commander Scekic who had a stocking over his head.
10 Police took away the family's car, jewellery, money, and documents.
11 Mr. Kryeziu describes walking in the convoy of villagers for
12 about 40 kilometres. He describes how the villagers were mistreated
13 along the way, being robbed and beaten. And he describes arriving at the
14 Albanian border check-point, recognising a Serb policeman from Dushanove
15 called Nebojsa. He saw police taking money from the refugees,
16 confiscating their cars, documents, and removing their vehicle
17 registration plates.
18 That is the end of the summary.
19 Q. Sir, I do have some very brief questions for you in the time we
20 have remaining. In your statement you describe, of course, some of the
21 events that took place on the 28th of March, 1999, and I know that you
22 described that the village was surrounded by police and military, they
23 were shooting and yelling at people to go to Albania and that the village
24 then formed into a convoy. I have some questions for you about that
25 convoy. And the first question is: Can you tell us the ethnicity of the
Page 5568
1 people who were in that convoy?
2 A. They were Albanian. There were also some Roma or Ashkali as we
3 call them. They were turned back with their families after travelling
4 for about 2 or 3 kilometres. They were told that you don't need to go to
5 Albania
6 Goranies [Realtime transcript read in error "grannies"] as well who were
7 likewise returned. Therefore it was only us Albanians that were forced
8 to leave.
9 Q. Can you tell us, sir, who turned those people back?
10 A. Police. Police, the military. They were in mixed groups. We
11 couldn't tell exactly who was who, but we saw it with your own eyes. A
12 neighbour of ours was asked to go back, but they were also -- were also
13 mistreated, but they were turned back. This is something I
14 eye-witnessed.
15 Q. Sir, I know that in your answer you just described two groups.
16 The first was Roma that were turned back, and then there was a second,
17 I'm not sure it came through. Can you explain to us what the second
18 group was, who these people were?
19 A. Yes, we call the Romas sometimes Egyptians, Ashkali, but usually
20 we call them gypsies. They were the same people.
21 Q. And was there another group that you referenced? I can see in
22 the English translation it says there were some "grannies" as well who
23 were likewise returned. I'm just wanting to clarify who that other group
24 who was returned was?
25 A. They were Goranies, but they were not forced to leave.
Page 5569
1 Q. Okay. Thank you. Sir, am I correct that that's a group of
2 non-Albanian Muslims you are referring to?
3 A. That's correct.
4 Q. Thank you. I think that's clearer. In your statement, sir, you
5 also refer to the conditions briefly in the convoy when you were forced
6 to walk for 40 kilometres after your car was taken away. You describe
7 soldiers maltreating you, grabbing jewellery from women, at one point
8 grabbing a baby and throwing it into the mud. Can you tell us who those
9 forces were who were doing that?
10 A. They were Serb, Serbian Yugoslav police and military forces. And
11 on the 28th of March at about 1700 hours, first there was a Lada Niva
12 vehicle, a white one, that entered the village, and they started to
13 shoot. We went inside the houses, and then we started to hear the
14 shelling. We started to see tanks, armoured cars coming into the
15 village, and heard yelling and shouting like, "you do not belong here.
16 Kosova is not yours, go to Albania
17 Q. Sorry, sir, I'll stop you there if I can because we have that
18 from your statement already, and I know you've been quite clear in
19 describing that. I just have a couple of other very specific questions,
20 and I know I don't have much time remaining.
21 I wanted to ask you, sir, as you were proceeding again in this
22 convoy when you were on foot, did you observe these Serb forces that you
23 saw using any vehicles as you proceeded in the convoy?
24 A. Yes. There were vehicles but, as I said earlier, we were forced
25 to form a convoy, and we had to walk straight without daring to see on
Page 5570
1 the right or on the left for about 2 kilometres up to the end of the
2 village to the road that goes to Prizren.
3 Q. And after you reached that point and continued on, can you
4 explain what the -- what, if any, the police presence was like at that
5 time, as you continued past those two kilometres?
6 A. There was a group of policemen at the place where the road turns
7 towards Albania
8 to Putnik, there were police there and cars, vehicles pass by with
9 Albanian families. They escorted them and with automatic rifles they
10 broke their windows, car windows, and shouted at the people intimidating
11 them.
12 I wanted to mention that between the Printex factory and another
13 place, I saw, everybody saw it, that they caught a baby and threw him or
14 her on the ground. This is all we could see because, as I said, we were
15 very scared. They -- we put the young men and women in our middle
16 because we were afraid they would take away them from the column.
17 Q. Thank you, sir. And as you proceeded on foot, do you recall
18 passing any check-points? And if so, can you explain that to us?
19 A. Yes. When we passed Zhur, I don't know how many kilometres it is
20 far from the border, there was a police check-point. There were sand
21 sacks there, many people were stopped there and taken out of the convoy.
22 When we went to the border with Albania
23 was my neighbour with whom I had been living for about 40 years. And he
24 asked me in Albanian, Where is your car? I told him what had happened,
25 how the police commander had taken it away from me, and I told him about
Page 5571
1 everything that had happened, how we were robbed of our documents, of our
2 precious possessions, jewellery, and so on.
3 I saw that most of the people were stripped of their documents.
4 The women were taken away their jewellery, that they were maltreated,
5 there were many instances of maltreatment on the way.
6 Q. Thank you, sir.
7 MR. BEHAR: Those are my questions for you. And my learned
8 friend from the Defence will have some questions for you now. Sorry,
9 Your Honours, just before I continue, I realise with the second
10 statement, I may have misspoken about the date. I think it was recorded
11 as 2001 it was tendered.
12 JUDGE PARKER: It should be 2004?
13 MR. BEHAR: Yes, thank you.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
15 Mr. Djurdjic. We leave the prospect before you that we might
16 finish two witnesses today, Mr. Djurdjic. We just raise that prospect
17 for you to keep in mind.
18 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I will, but I'm afraid it doesn't
19 depend on me but on the witness and the answers I receive. As you
20 witnessed yesterday, if a witness provides brief and accurate answers,
21 then we move on quickly.
22 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:
23 Q. Good morning, Mr. Kryeziu. My name is Veljko Djurdjic, a team
24 member of the Defence team of the accused Mr. Djordjevic. With me is
25 Ms. Marie O'Leary, another Defence team member. I have a few questions
Page 5572
1 for you in order to clarify some details from your statements which I
2 read.
3 Firstly, did you know Rexhep Krasniqi in 1999?
4 A. Yes, if we are talking about the same person, namely my
5 neighbour.
6 Q. Thank you. Yesterday or the day before, did you see this
7 neighbour of yours here in The Hague, that is to say, Rexhep Krasniqi?
8 A. Yes, yes, I saw him on the street. I think yesterday it was.
9 Q. Thank you. Therefore we are talking about that person that you
10 saw yesterday. In Dusanovo, where is his house located?
11 A. It is in the transit road, we call it. From my house as the crow
12 flies, it is about 50 metres away.
13 Q. Thank you. If I understand correctly, his house is along the
14 main road, the road between Prizren and Djakovica?
15 A. No, no. It's the transit road which goes towards the villages
16 where the German KFOR was based. It's that road, and it's about 150
17 metres away from the main road.
18 Q. Thank you. Where is your house located?
19 A. On the side of the transit road, and it's about 150 metres away
20 from the Prizren-Gjakove road, main road.
21 Q. Thank you. Are your house and Mr. Krasniqi's house on the same
22 street?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. Thank you. On the 28th of March, 1999, did you see Mr. Krasniqi?
25 A. I didn't see him then.
Page 5573
1 Q. Thank you.
2 A. Didn't know where my son was, let alone Rexhep, where he was.
3 But I've seen many people being chased out of their homes from the Serb
4 police and military, but I didn't know where my son and daughter was, let
5 alone Rexhep.
6 Q. Thank you. Can you tell me what was or is your father's name?
7 A. Shaip.
8 Q. Was he alive in 1999?
9 A. My father died in 1963 in Reti village where I was born. That's
10 in the Rahovec municipality.
11 Q. Thank you. What was your father's occupation?
12 A. My father was a farmer.
13 Q. Thank you. When did you move to Dusanovo?
14 A. In 1963 we bought the house. In fact, in 1964 we moved with all
15 the family to Dushanove.
16 Q. Thank you. Who were your family members when you moved?
17 A. We were about 22 members of the family. We lived in one house.
18 Although my father had died in 1964, my mother died too, and we buried
19 her in the village where she was born. So we lived for a long time with
20 her uncles and the sons of my uncles.
21 Q. Thank you. How many brothers and sisters did you have in 1964?
22 A. With three brothers and we have one sister.
23 Q. How many of your uncles moved with you to Dusanovo?
24 A. I had an uncle who in fact we called father because he brought us
25 up, and the same applied to his wife. She was our mother. And we lived
Page 5574
1 in the same house with them.
2 Q. Thank you. Do you recall who you bought the plot of land from?
3 A. I can't remember exactly. He worked in the finance department of
4 the land registry. I cannot give you any further details. I can't
5 remember because I was young and it's about over 50 years ago, more than
6 that that it happened.
7 Q. Thank you. Which Serb families do you know of having lived in
8 Dusanovo?
9 A. Our neighbour was Slobodan Petkovic, Stanisa Petkovic,
10 Peta Tasic, although he later moved to Prizren. We had Nebojsa. But
11 there was some Plaskic, Estanic [phoen] who worked in hospital but later
12 moved to Serbia
13 moment that the war broke out.
14 Q. You don't know his last name but where did he live?
15 A. I can't remember. I knew where his house was, that's on the road
16 Prizren-Gjakove. I cannot remember his family name.
17 Q. Thank you. Yes, so next to the road Prizren-Djakovica. What
18 about Milos Scekic, where did he live?
19 A. He was living closer to my house, about 5 to 600 metres away, and
20 he was near the Prizren-Gjakove Road. They had some land there and he
21 lived in an old house. There were two brothers. His father, Slavko
22 [Realtime transcript read in error "Slatko"] worked in the railway
23 company.
24 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you. It should be "Slavko"
25 in the transcript. Not "Slatko."
Page 5575
1 Q. Witness, what was Milos Scekic's job with the police?
2 A. Milos Scekic was a police commander, but I do not know any
3 further details, because I wasn't working with him.
4 Q. If I understood correctly, you were a barber? You probably still
5 are a barber?
6 A. I also worked in the vineyard in the plant which processed grapes
7 and exported them. And in 1992 I was sacked. We were 16 of us who were
8 sacked then, and I had worked there for a long time, but then after I was
9 sacked, I had to set up my own business and worked as a barber.
10 Q. Thank you. And where was your barber's job?
11 A. It was in the courtyard of my own house.
12 Q. Thank you. Do you know the building where Milos Scekic worked?
13 A. Yes, at the police station in Prizren.
14 Q. Would you be able to tell me where the police station is in
15 Prizren?
16 A. Yes. The police station in Prizren is closer to the courthouse,
17 close to the Prizren-Gjakove Road, and it's a few hundred metres from the
18 road which goes towards the Albanian border.
19 Q. Have you ever been in that building, and have you ever been in
20 the office of Mr. Scekic?
21 A. Yes, I was there as well as the headmaster of the school of the
22 village.
23 Q. Sorry, I didn't get that part. Headmaster of the school in the
24 village, does that mean that both of you went to his office or what did
25 you mean?
Page 5576
1 A. Yes, because a few days before that, Milos Scekic came dressed in
2 civilian clothes, and he had a bandaged left arm. He was together with
3 another policeman but dressed in civilian clothes. He was called Denic.
4 And Scekic asked me to call the headmaster and both with him to collect
5 the weapons in the village. And I told him that I'm not in charge of the
6 village, and I cannot command my own children, let alone the villagers.
7 And he said I'm going to sends one of my children to go and call the
8 headmaster, but they didn't allow him to go there.
9 So we went there together. I was accompanied by them, and the
10 name of the headmaster is Liman Thaqi. He wasn't in the house, so we
11 were told to go there in the evening. And in the evening, I told him
12 what the police Scekic had told us. And we called on the LDK leader -- a
13 local leader Hysni Hoxha and also discussed the issue with him.
14 Q. Thank you. Please focus on my question. I asked you if you had
15 been to the office of Mr. Scekic. You said yes, and you mentioned the
16 headmaster of the school in that context. So I asked you then if he was
17 with you at the office of Mr. Scekic. And now before we clear that up,
18 you began your answer by saying "because a few days before ..." Before
19 what? Which time-period do you mean?
20 A. A day before that, I remember it was as if yesterday, that is the
21 following day in the morning, I went to the police station together with
22 the headmaster. We had been asked to report to him, to go to his office.
23 Q. Thank you. What time was it?
24 A. I cannot remember the dates, but I had kept a record of the dates
25 in my home, but the Serb police and military took every documentation
Page 5577
1 that we had in the house. But it's approximately in August or September.
2 I cannot exactly say what the date was. I cannot remember that.
3 Q. Talking about 1998?
4 A. In 1998.
5 Q. Thank you. And now tell me, how did you come into the office in
6 were you able to simply walk into the police station and go to
7 Milos Scekic's office, just like that?
8 A. We travelled by bus to Prizren. It's about 4 kilometres. We
9 went there, reported to the police station. We told them that we've been
10 asked to by Scekic. There we met some villagers who were being detained
11 at the police station. We also met Dragan who was working at the police
12 station. I can't remember his other name. And we told him that we had
13 been asked by Scekic to go to his office.
14 Q. Are you aware that Scekic was the third highest ranking man in
15 SUP
16 A. I don't know. I knew he was a commander. That's what they
17 called him, but what post he held, I don't know.
18 Q. And how do you explain that he addressed you in relation to arms
19 and that he put you in touch with the headmaster?
20 A. I don't know what to say. Up until that moment, Scekic and his
21 brother had been to my shop several times. As to why he addressed me, I
22 don't know. And he told us that if you don't collect the weapons, then
23 we'll set the whole village on fire, just like we've done in other
24 villages.
25 And when we went the next day to his office, he repeated the same
Page 5578
1 words.
2 Q. And had he spoken to you before, and had you been to the police
3 station before that?
4 A. No, I had never been there before. That was the first time that
5 I had been to that police station. First and the last time.
6 Q. Did you have any weapons with a licence?
7 A. No, I've never carried any weapons.
8 Q. Did anyone in your extended family have a licensed weapon?
9 A. Never. We've never had any weapons.
10 Q. Very well. You said you used to work in PIK Progress. Does
11 PIK
12 A. No.
13 Q. When you go on the Djakovica-Prizren Road in the direction of
14 Prizren, does PIK
15 A. Yes, and there was also the headquarters of the building and the
16 offices for the agriculture, for the vineyards, and for the management of
17 the company. The offices were there; that's where I worked.
18 Q. Yes, but I'm interested in these barns. How far are they from
19 your house?
20 A. Approximately, I haven't measured, but about a kilometre away.
21 Q. I never expect you to give me exact distances. I'm interested in
22 what you can tell me approximately.
23 Is it true that a heap of weapons was left standing next to those
24 barns in September of the year you are talking about?
25 A. I haven't heard that, and I don't think that's true. That's all
Page 5579
1 speculation.
2 Q. That's what you think. And did you hear a public appeal to
3 everyone in Kosovo and Metohija in September 1998 that they may hand in
4 weapons, and they would be exempted from Prosecution for possessing
5 weapons they have no licence for or possessing weapons for which licences
6 are not issued at all?
7 A. Yes, I heard because they came with loud-speakers and armoured
8 vehicles, the Serb police, I mean, and they called on the population to
9 surrender their weapons, and the dead-line passed. It was one evening.
10 And that evening all of the village left their homes, especially the
11 women and children, and they left and they went to Prizren where they
12 stayed for about ten days. And that was because they feared for their
13 lives.
14 Q. Thank you. And what were the men doing?
15 A. I couldn't see everyone, but my -- I had to stay with my brother
16 in the house because he was handicapped. We stayed, both of us, in the
17 house.
18 Q. Thank you. Tell me, did you do your military service?
19 A. Yes. I had my military service in Srem Mitrovica. I served in
20 the Yugoslav army and that was for 18 months.
21 Q. What was your specialty? Your military specialty?
22 A. I wasn't part of the infantry or any other force. I worked as a
23 barber.
24 Q. And tell me, what schools did you finish?
25 A. I finished four years of regular schooling in Reti village. And
Page 5580
1 at the time, we didn't have any books or any notebooks or any pens.
2 After that, we moved to what was Dushanove village, and I had another
3 four years of schooling there, and then I had another two years in the
4 high school. And that was a private school because we didn't have other
5 possibilities. So it's ten years altogether.
6 Q. You mean to tell me that until 1970, the year until which you
7 were in school, you attended private schools? Or were you learning a
8 trade?
9 A. No, there was four elementary, four eighth-year school. And then
10 we had another two years in the medical college, the high school college
11 in Prizren. We had to pay to attend that. I can't remember how much we
12 paid for that because it was a private school.
13 Q. A private secondary medical school in Prizren?
14 A. It was called the medical high school, but in fact it was a
15 general high school. It was closer to the fountain and the Catholic
16 church. Whether it exists there today, I don't know.
17 Q. Thank you. But that's a state-run secondary medical school?
18 That's why I'm asking you.
19 A. It -- then it was state owned, and probably today, if it exists.
20 Q. Thank you. But that country was called the socialist country, at
21 least it called itself a socialist country and private schools did not
22 exist until the 1990s of the past century?
23 A. I do not want any provocations. I didn't exactly want to say
24 that it was a private school, but we went there privately. We paid to
25 attend those courses. And it was the same rights to go to school whether
Page 5581
1 one was a Serb or an Albanian or a Turk. We were entitled to go to
2 school and do it on a part-time basis.
3 Q. Thank you. Tell me now about this column of people you told me
4 about when you talked about the 28th of March. Were there any Turks in
5 it?
6 A. No, there weren't any Turks.
7 Q. Thank you. And when you served in the army, what kind of uniform
8 did you have?
9 A. One solid colour, SMB colour.
10 Q. I see from the statement you had two sons. One was 19 in 1999,
11 and your eldest son, how old was he?
12 A. My elder son was Bekim, he was about 20, 21 years old.
13 Q. Thank you. Did your sons do their regular military service?
14 A. No.
15 Q. I've already asked you in which way Scekic put you in contact
16 with the headmaster of the school. Were you perhaps politically active
17 in 1998, 1999?
18 A. No, I was never involved in any political activity, but maybe
19 thought because I had that barber's shop there I was the right person to
20 get to the village and ask the people to surrender the weapons. Because
21 they told me, you are the main person in the neighbourhood to which I
22 responded I was not.
23 But then we did call on the people to collect to the mosque and
24 informed them that the police had told us that everyone should hand in
25 their weapons otherwise we'd fare consequences. But I didn't hear that
Page 5582
1 anyone had a weapon, actually, and I don't know whether someone handed it
2 -- I think they didn't have any weapons, and they didn't surrender any
3 weapons as far as I know.
4 Maybe I couldn't guarantee 100 percent for each and every one,
5 but in general I believed, and I still believe that people didn't have
6 weapons.
7 Q. Thank you. And did you hear that in the summer of 1998 there was
8 some fighting in Kosova-Metohija?
9 A. Yes, I heard. And I saw with my own eyes it in many places. If
10 you want me, I can explain.
11 Q. No, I'm only interested in how this fighting was conducted, with
12 what.
13 A. I said even earlier when I worked in the vineyards at Progress
14 export Prizren for many years, the place called Landovica was a place
15 where the Serbian army was stationed. They shelled from there in the
16 direction of Vrini village which comprises, Hoqe, Lez, Belus, and some
17 other villages above Prizren. In Suhareke municipality we saw they fired
18 at the school.
19 I have forgotten about the actual casualties, but I believe that
20 some kids were killed in another village which was 2 kilometres away from
21 ours. Cani [phoen] it was called which was, as the crow flies, not more
22 than one, one and a half kilometres. The Serbian military tanks were
23 stationed there.
24 Q. You are giving me very extensive answers, and I can't interrupt
25 you. My question was with what kind of weapons was this fighting
Page 5583
1 conducted, because you said there was fighting, that was the question.
2 You haven't answered it. But tell me then, do you know if the KLA
3 entered Orahovac on the 17th, 18th, July 1998.
4 A. I don't know this.
5 Q. Tell me then about June 1998, did you go to Pristina?
6 A. I don't remember for what reason. I don't know why you are
7 asking me about Prishtina, I don't understand.
8 Q. Because if you went to Pristina, I wanted to ask you which road
9 did you take?
10 A. The road to Prishtina goes through Rahovec-Malisheve but also
11 through Suhareke to Stimlje, Lipjan, and then you go to Prishtina.
12 There's other two ways you can go to Prishtina, but I don't recall to
13 have been to Prishtina.
14 Q. Obviously you don't remember that you couldn't take that road at
15 the time you had to go via Strpce and take the partisan road via
16 Strecka [phoen] and Nerodimlje to get to Pristina; but since you didn't
17 go to Pristina, it's no use talking about it.
18 You also haven't heard, have you, that the Pristina-Pec Road
19 blocked in 1998?
20 A. I don't remember that because, as I said, I didn't go there
21 myself, so I don't want to say something that I didn't see or experience
22 myself.
23 Q. You've said many things that you have not seen or experienced
24 yourself but only heard from others. Tell me, how did you know who
25 headed the DSK in your village?
Page 5584
1 A. When the LDK branch, LDK for Kosova was founded, headed by the
2 late Ibrahim Rugova, there was a party called LDK. And we voted in our
3 village for Hysni Hoxha as the chairman of the LDK branch there.
4 Q. Thank you. And when was this voting?
5 A. I don't recall exactly, but I think it was about 1992.
6 Q. Could you vote for anyone else except for the DSK?
7 A. Maybe there would have been other persons eligible for that, but
8 we believe that he was the best choice because he had had a legal
9 background. And so we found him to be the best candidate for the LDK in
10 our village.
11 Q. Thank you. What was the DSK's platform?
12 A. Briefly, I would say it was a peaceful platform.
13 Q. Why?
14 A. I believe that you can't reach anything resorting to bad means
15 and to violence. I think you can do everything through a peaceful way.
16 Q. What was their goal, irrespective of the means?
17 A. I don't understand your question, I'm afraid.
18 Q. You started explaining that one needs to use peaceful means to
19 reach one's goal, in this case the party platform and its objectives.
20 And I was asking you about that; what was their goal?
21 A. The goal of this party was that everyone resort to a peaceful way
22 and that war it averted. But Kosovars couldn't avoid the war because, as
23 you know, we were subjected to a lot of maltreatment. You know very well
24 that even during the Yugoslav army time, many Albanian soldiers were
25 killed. I don't want to go into this kind of debate because I'm not a
Page 5585
1 politician, but your question made me give this answer.
2 Q. I'm kindly asking you to answer briefly. What was the goal of
3 the DSK? You keep on discussing the means, but you did not answer -- you
4 didn't tell me what the goal of the party was.
5 A. LDK and the entire Albanian people who embrace and supported LDK
6 wanted to resort to a peaceful road. I don't know what kind of other
7 answer you expect from me.
8 Q. I expect of you to tell me where that peaceful road was supposed
9 to take you.
10 A. I'm afraid I don't understand you.
11 Q. Very well. When was it that you heard of the KLA for the first
12 time?
13 A. It was about sometime in 1998.
14 Q. Can you tell us what was it that you heard about the activities
15 of the KLA?
16 A. I heard that the Liberation Army of Kosova was formed which would
17 strive for Kosova's independence, but I didn't see any of its activities
18 with my own eyes.
19 Q. Thank you. Of course, you were in no position to see what their
20 activities were, since you did not participate in them. I'm asking you
21 this though: What means did the KLA use in order to reach their
22 objective?
23 A. I don't know, and I didn't see what means they had. Because in
24 my village Dushanove, which is no longer called so, there were no KLA
25 soldiers. So I can't give you any further answer to that.
Page 5586
1 Q. How do you know that there were no KLA soldiers there?
2 A. There weren't because I didn't see any in my village.
3 Q. Do you know what KLA members look like?
4 A. Yes, I saw them through television.
5 Q. Could you describe them?
6 A. Like an army, they had camouflage uniforms. They had the logo of
7 the Kosova Liberation Army with an eagle.
8 Q. Thank you. Which TV station did you see that on?
9 A. I saw it on Belgrade
10 channel.
11 Q. What was broadcast about KLA activities and the way they
12 operated?
13 A. The Belgrade
14 terrorists, but in fact, it was a liberation army of Kosova by liberated
15 Kosova also thanks to the assistance of the international community and
16 NATO liberating all its people irrespective of the ethnicities.
17 When we were driven out of Kosova and after their intervention,
18 we could return back to our homes. And this was done in cooperation with
19 the KLA.
20 Q. Thank you. Around what time did you see the information you
21 refer to as having seen it on television?
22 A. Sometime in 1998.
23 Q. Thank you. How did you find out that your younger son attended
24 training with the KLA?
25 A. There is a misunderstanding or misinterpretation. I don't know
Page 5587
1 whether it was my fault or the interpreters. He was not a member of the
2 KLA, but he was in the part where the army was because he was sought by
3 the police. And he went to find shelter with his aunt in Drenac.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have P876 in the
6 Albanian and English versions, para 2.
7 Q. Witness, please read out paragraph number 2 on this page of the
8 statement out loud.
9 A. Yes.
10 "The only person from my family who was involved with the KLA was
11 my younger son Agrim Kryeziu, 19 years old, who was exercising/training
12 with the KLA for a few days last year when the Serb attack started last
13 spring, 1998. From September 1998, he decided to leave the country and
14 go to Germany
15 Dusseldorf
16 calls me from a post office there."
17 Q. Thank you. When you provided this statement it was read back to
18 you in Albanian; am I correct?
19 A. Yes, that's correct.
20 Q. You signed it afterwards, signing the English version?
21 A. At that time we were in Albania
22 son and daughter were. When I gave this statement, I'm sure that they
23 may have misunderstood me when I said in the part of the KLA. Actually,
24 I didn't pay much attention to it, because I was very worried about my
25 family members, but he was not a member. I would have wished he was a
Page 5588
1 member because it was a regular liberation army, but he was not in fact.
2 And that's why I'm saying a mistake may have been made here.
3 Either it's my fault or the interpreters fault, but I simply said where
4 the KLA is exercising, in that part he is. He went there for security
5 reasons, I mean, because he felt safer there. He was sought by the
6 police.
7 Q. You said you would have been happy had he been a member of the
8 KLA, since the KLA was a regular liberation army. Can you tell me
9 something about the way that liberation army operated?
10 A. I said earlier, I was not a member. And I was never in that part
11 where it operated to see what it was doing.
12 Q. Since you were not a member of theirs and you were not in any
13 area where they were active, perhaps you can still tell me something
14 about the things you heard about the way they operated?
15 A. I heard that they fought with the police or the army of Serbia
16 and Yugoslavia
17 Q. Thank you. Did you hear that they possessed any weapons?
18 A. I heard and I also saw on television that they had some automatic
19 rifles.
20 Q. Thank you. Was that the reason why people were being invited in
21 September 1998, announcing it over loud-speakers in Kosovo that people
22 should surrender their arms and that in that case they would not be
23 prosecuted?
24 A. The people in general didn't have weapons. The army had. The
25 liberation army of Kosova had to fight with the army of the former
Page 5589
1 Yugoslavia
2 90 years old, or our kids of 7 or 8 or so years old. It's always the
3 case that an army fights another army, not against the civilian
4 population.
5 Q. Thank you. Witness, we are now discussing P877. On the
6 19th of September, 2004, you gave a statement to the Prosecutor's Office
7 of The Hague Tribunal. Do you recall that?
8 A. Yes. They must have been in my home.
9 Q. Do you recall that you corrected certain things from the
10 statement you had given on the 14th of May, 1999?
11 A. I don't remember what change you are referring to. Maybe you can
12 explain to me?
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Could we please have P877.
14 Q. Witness, this is the front page of the statement. It says the
15 19th of September, 2004. I don't think you have it in hard copy; you'll
16 have to follow on the screen.
17 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I would kindly ask the court clerk
18 to display page 2.
19 Q. Did you see the date of the statement?
20 A. Is it on the left or on the right-hand side?
21 Q. Very well, we'll go back to it. But look at the body of the
22 statement. It is rather short. What was the correction that you made?
23 A. Probably it was the correction about the number of the houses.
24 From 120, it should be about 1.200.
25 Q. And you did not enter any other corrections. Having given the
Page 5590
1 original statement five years prior to that, the only correction you had
2 to make concerned the number of houses in Dusanovo; am I correct?
3 A. Yes, that's correct.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honours, I think it is time
6 for the break.
7 JUDGE PARKER: We adjourn now for the first break and resume at
8 11.00. We'll have a break now, and the court officer will assist you
9 during the break.
10 --- Recess taken at 10.29 a.m.
11 --- On resuming at 11.06 a.m.
12 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Mr. Djurdjic.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
14 Q. Witness, on the right-hand side of the screen you see you said at
15 the time it was all stated to the best of your knowledge and
16 recollection?
17 A. That is correct.
18 Q. Thank you. And that was five years after the first statement.
19 Let me ask you now, where is the Denj village?
20 A. The Denj village is on the road Prizren-Gjakove somewhere beyond
21 the Xerxe village. There is Gradishte, Rakoc [phoen], and then you go to
22 Denj.
23 Q. Do you turn off to the right from the road to Djakovica in the
24 direction of Orahovac?
25 A. No, in Xerxe you turn right to go to Rahovec, then you travel
Page 5591
1 another kilometre and then you turn right to Gradishte before you go to
2 the holy bridge and then the first village is Gexhe.
3 Q. This that village, where was the KLA training camp?
4 A. I don't know that. In Denj there was a KLA base, I don't know
5 about that.
6 Q. Believe me, I know the area very well, but I have never heard of
7 Denj village until I read the supplemental information you gave to the
8 Prosecution in 2006. And you mentioned this village Denj saying that
9 there was a KLA training camp there.
10 A. That's not true that I've said that, and it's not true that there
11 was a training camp of the KLA there.
12 Q. Witness, I always trust the Prosecution, especially when they
13 give me things in writing. It was an interview with you on the
14 23rd of November, I suppose here in The Hague. On the eve of your
15 testimony in the Milutinovic case, that was a correction you made. And
16 it's on the record. You have to take my word for it. It's now on the
17 record in this case and in that one.
18 But let me ask you, did you have a relative in that camp when
19 your son was leaving regardless of whether he was in the KLA or not?
20 A. No, there was no camp in my village, and I did not have -- I did
21 not have any relatives there in Denj, but I've always described how we
22 were maltreated. You always avoid asking me questions about how people
23 were maltreated, how they were killed, and how they were fired upon. But
24 you should ask me questions about what I've said in the statement. I
25 don't know that there was such a camp of the KLA in Denj, and I haven't
Page 5592
1 touched on that.
2 Q. Witness, please believe me, I may get things wrong sometimes, but
3 I never deliberately tell untruths. I have already explained this.
4 Let's move on, and we'll come to your statement.
5 You keep repeating things from your witness statement, that's why
6 I'm not asking you about it. You always keep telling me the same thing
7 over and over again regardless of what my question is. But please focus
8 on my questions, answer them briefly and to the point so that we finish
9 quickly.
10 You have experience with prior trials. This Trial Chamber will
11 allow me as much time as I need in view of your answers. The same rules
12 as before will not necessarily apply.
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can I now call up P318.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Will you allow me to say something?
15 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
16 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can I go on?
17 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
18 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] As long as I live, what I have
19 experienced I have said and I will say every time I'm given the
20 opportunity to say what I've experienced and what I've seen with my very
21 own eyes. And I still see that as something which is going through my
22 mind's eye, all the time.
23 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
24 Now, Mr. Djurdjic, if you would carry on. Thank you.
25 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation]
Page 5593
1 Q. Witness, on this picture, can you recognise anything?
2 A. Number 1, it's a tank; an armoured vehicle at number 2. And the
3 third and the fourth, I cannot identify them very well. But -- but I can
4 very well remember number 1 and number 2.
5 Q. Thank you. Who had the vehicle under number 1?
6 A. It was also the police had such armoured vehicles, but number 2
7 was specifically used by the police.
8 Q. Thank you. And what colour is number 1?
9 A. We call it green.
10 Q. Can you tell me the colour of the uniform of the soldier
11 protruding from the turret?
12 A. It's a mono-colour uniform, this one.
13 Q. Which colour?
14 A. It's the same colour as the armoured vehicle.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Can we see page 2 now.
17 Q. What do you see on this picture, Witness?
18 A. Number 6 is the military tanks. And number 5 were police
19 vehicles. And number 7 is a Pinzgauer. And I haven't seen the number 8.
20 Q. Thank you. Which colour is number 7?
21 A. That was the colour of the Pinzgauers.
22 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Next page, please.
23 Q. Is any of these vehicles familiar to you?
24 A. I can't remember very well. I'm focusing on the 10, but I cannot
25 see very well what kind of vehicle it is. Some police forces used
Page 5594
1 similar vehicles, but I cannot be sure.
2 Q. And what is the colour of these vehicles?
3 A. In the picture you mean?
4 Q. Yes, yes.
5 A. A kind of green in this particular picture. It's a kind of green
6 colour.
7 Q. Thank you. Witness, tell me, where was the house of Haki Cuni?
8 A. Haki Cuni's house was about a hundred metres further away from my
9 house. It was in front of my house.
10 Q. Is it along the road Prizren-Djakovica?
11 A. No, it's in the entrance of the Dushanove village. It's on the
12 transit road, and it's about 2- to 300 metres away from the main road.
13 Q. Thank you. What was Haki Cuni's occupation?
14 A. He was the driver of the director of PIK Progress, export
15 Prizren, the company where I worked. He was a colleague of mine.
16 Q. You stated that you had heard he had been killed.
17 A. I heard from his family when I paid a visit there. The police
18 had told them that he was killed, but fortunately, he was found alive and
19 released on the 12th or 13th of September when the NATO troops moved in.
20 He was -- he was tied hand and feet and his mouth was also taped, and
21 when they found him in a lorry, at the back of a lorry. And he was part
22 of a group of another 20 people.
23 Q. [Previous translation continues]... that he was killed?
24 A. It was from one of his brothers, a member of his family. That's
25 what the police, the Serb police had told them, that he was killed.
Page 5595
1 Q. Please listen to my question carefully. When -- at what time did
2 you hear he had been killed?
3 A. I heard before we were forced to leave our houses and go towards
4 Albania
5 Q. Thank you. Does that mean before the 28th of March, 1999
6 A. I made my statement, and I said there that it was a month before
7 that. But when we came back from Albania
8 then I heard that he was released and he was alive, and on the
9 19th of March, I saw him with my very own eyes.
10 Q. Did I understand correctly that in June 1999 you heard he was
11 alive?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Thank you. And then you made a correction to your statement, as
14 we have seen before, on the 19th of September, 2004, and you did not
15 execute that correction.
16 A. [Previous translation continues] ... that regarding Haki Cuni?
17 Is that regarding Haki Cuni? That there have been corrections?
18 Q. Yes.
19 A. Yes, it was confirmed that Haki Cuni was alive on the
20 12th or 13th of June when NATO moved in. He was released from the back
21 of a lorry where he was tied hands and feet, and his mouth was taped.
22 And it was the German KFOR forces that released him and another group of
23 people. And he was alive.
24 I returned on the 17th of June --
25 Q. Please --
Page 5596
1 A. -- from Albania
2 Q. The interpretation you are receiving is excellent. Please answer
3 my question. I just put it to you that in 2004 you made a supplemental
4 statement. We've seen that statement. You made only one correction in
5 that supplemental information regarding the number of houses in Dusanovo.
6 I'm telling you that in 2004, you did not make a correction regarding
7 this gentleman we are discussing, Haki Cuni.
8 A. If I was asked, I will have corrected it just like you are asking
9 me. But you have the example of my wife who died in -- around about that
10 time, so I wasn't very much focused because I had that grievance in my
11 family, that bereavement in my family. And if I was asked, I would have
12 corrected the facts, put the facts straight.
13 Q. I understand what you are saying, but was it the most important
14 thing to make a corrigendum to your statement from 1999 as to whether
15 there were 120 houses in Dusanovo or more?
16 A. Yes, there were about 1.200 houses, and not 120 houses.
17 Q. Thank you. Witness, will you agree with me that when you heard
18 the testimony of Mr. Ognjenovic, Nebojsa Ognjenovic, that he had talked
19 on the phone with Haki Cuni, that's when you decided to make a
20 corrigendum, and that's how you testified in the Milutinovic case?
21 A. That's not true. I don't know that Nebojsa has spoken to
22 Haki Cuni, and I haven't stated any such thing.
23 Q. I'm saying that from the testimony of Nebojsa Ognjenovic you
24 heard he had talked to Haki Cuni and that the latter was alive. And you
25 corrected yourself in the Milutinovic case accordingly. That's when you
Page 5597
1 said for the first time that Haki Cuni was alive?
2 A. No. I didn't know whether Nebojsa had spoken to Haki Cuni, I
3 only heard from Haki Cuni's family. And for the duration of the time
4 that we were in Albania
5 Q. Very well. You obviously do not wish to answer my question in
6 any case.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic, that's not a fair comment. You have
8 one view of the facts. The witness is trying to tell you another. You
9 are not accepting his answer. So it's not proper for you to say, You are
10 not wanting to answer my question.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, I put to him the 1999
12 and 2004 statements and for the first time --
13 JUDGE PARKER: There's no dispute about that. The only issue is
14 why he didn't make a change in 2004. You have one version that it's
15 because of evidence that was given later. His answer is:
16 I wasn't asked about it in 2004. Because of the death of my wife
17 I wasn't worried about these things. I made an alteration to the number
18 of houses increasing it from 120 to 1.200 because I was asked about it.
19 I wasn't asked about anything else.
20 Now, that may be right or it may be wrong. You've put to him
21 that that is wrong and there's another reason. He says no.
22 I think you better move on, Mr. Djurdjic.
23 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I will, Your Honour.
24 Q. Witness, do you recall when Prizren was bombed for the first
25 time?
Page 5598
1 A. No, not Prizren. It was the military barracks that was bombed on
2 the 24th of March about 2000, 2015, on the 24th of March, 1999.
3 Q. Thank you. Where is the barracks that was bombed?
4 A. The barracks of Serbia Yugoslavia in Prizren is located on the
5 road Prizren-Suhareke at the exit of Prizren where now is the German
6 KFOR; other forces, I don't know. That was the place where it was
7 stationed, on the right-hand side.
8 Q. Thank you. From that moment until when you departed, was there
9 any fighting around Prizren?
10 A. Yes, I know and I stated earlier that from the vineyard where I
11 worked for many years called Landovice where the forces of the Serbian
12 army were stationed and from where they bombed -- shelled Vrinje, set
13 fire to the houses, the part of Suhareke, Rahovec, from there they
14 shelled. These fightings I saw myself.
15 Q. When?
16 A. It happened from 1998 until 28th of March at 1700 hours where we
17 were -- when we were forced to flee from our own homes by the Serbian
18 forces. And on the way to Albania
19 other villages like Zhur, Nebrusht. When we was walking, it was night.
20 We had a blanket over our shoulders. We saw people being beaten up,
21 maltreated, warn out from walking and from what was going on. But
22 everyone was worried to save his life.
23 Q. Between the 24th and the 28th of March of 1999, whether you know
24 if there was any fighting around Prizren?
25 A. We heard that on the 24th of March we heard the NATO strikes
Page 5599
1 against the Yugoslav barracks at 2000 hours or so that I mentioned, but
2 the shelling by the Yugoslav army continued all day long against these
3 villages that I mentioned.
4 Q. Thank you. On the 24th of March as you say, were you in
5 Dusanovo?
6 A. Yes, together with my family.
7 Q. Thank you. What is the distance from Dusanovo to Landovica?
8 A. Dushanove is near from the transit road where my house is about 5
9 kilometres, I would say, from the village.
10 Q. And how far is it from Dusanovo to Suva Reka?
11 A. From Dushanove to Suhareke it is about 18 kilometres.
12 Q. Thank you. In your statement you say that the KLA was not in the
13 vicinity of Dusanovo. How do you know that?
14 A. I know this because I didn't see them with my eyes, by this I
15 mean that there was no fighting between the Serb military forces or
16 police forces and them. There was no fighting around that area.
17 Q. As far as I understand your answer, on the 24th, you were in your
18 home in Dusanovo?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did you leave Dusanovo at any point?
21 A. No.
22 Q. What about the 25th, did you leave Dusanovo then?
23 A. We didn't dare leave the village for fear of the Serb forces
24 because every time we were stopped by them, we were maltreated, beaten
25 up, or taken away.
Page 5600
1 Q. Did you leave Dusanovo on the 26th?
2 A. No.
3 Q. On the 27th of March?
4 A. No.
5 Q. How can you say then that you know there was no fighting with the
6 KLA?
7 A. There was no fighting I said because I saw with my own eyes the
8 tanks of the Serb Yugoslav army in the place called -- vineyard in
9 Landovice. And I also saw them shelling because as the crow flies the
10 place was not more than one or one and a half kilometres from where I
11 lived. I could see from my own house everything that was going on.
12 Q. You saw the tank, but was it engaging anyone?
13 A. I already said, the tanks were simply shelling the villages,
14 Vrinje which comprises Hoqe, Belus, Lez, some villages which I can't
15 remember the names of now. The part of Rahovec -- we could see the
16 flames coming out of the houses or the smoke from where we lived.
17 Q. Thank you. And you say you saw shells land in all of these
18 villages?
19 A. When they shelled, we could see the flames or the smoke coming
20 out of the houses. They didn't fight with the KLA, they fought with the
21 Kosova innocent, unarmed inhabitants. The same of the police and Army of
22 Yugoslavia
23 that they yelled at us, they slandered our -- cursed our mothers, they
24 said go to Albania
25 Kosova is Serbia
Page 5601
1 Q. How do you know that there was no KLA presence in the villages
2 you mentioned?
3 A. I don't know because I was not a member myself and I didn't see
4 any fighting between the Serb military or police and the KLA, but I only
5 saw the military and police tanks shelling, bombing. Because we saw, as
6 I said, the flames, the fire coming out. And through the information
7 outlets, we heard that such and such number of people were injured or
8 killed and so on.
9 Q. Correct me if I'm wrong, but if one goes from Dusanovo to
10 Djakovica you have to go across a hill following which there is
11 Landovica; am I correct?
12 A. Yes, that's correct. There was a monument of Boro
13 the time of the former Yugoslavia
14 you are correct. Yes that road goes to Gjakove, and this is where
15 Landovice is.
16 Q. Thank you. Am I correct that both Dusanovo and the Prizren
17 depression or field --
18 A. That's correct.
19 Q. -- is towards Prizren itself? In your statement it says you went
20 to your cousin's house. His name is Agim. Did I understand correctly
21 that it was actually your own brother rather than a cousin of yours?
22 A. When the Serb forces entered on the 28th of March at about 5.00
23 in the afternoon, the road is about 8 metres wide and 2 kilometres long;
24 there are several intersections there. I couldn't go to my house. I
25 entered the house of Agim Kryeziu who is my first cousin and at that
Page 5602
1 moment the Serb military and police forces entered his house with masks
2 and they took away some money from his mother. And there I saw these
3 forces beating people, and I saw Nebi Bucaj taken away because we all
4 live in the same area close by to each other.
5 And the women were being maltreated. I heard shots being fired
6 from all over the place with all sorts of weaponry. And as I said, they
7 kept yelling at us, cursing us, leave your houses, go to Albania. They
8 curse our mothers. I saw Abdurrahman Ahmetaj which -- who lived near
9 Shukac [phoen] being beaten by the police together with his son Besnik
10 was covered in blood until he fainted.
11 Q. No one did anything to you; am I right in saying that?
12 A. Me personally, no. But my wife, yes.
13 Q. Thank you. We are still in the house and the yard of
14 Agim Kryeziu?
15 A. Yes, yes.
16 Q. Your wife was not in his yard?
17 A. No. She was at home, in the house we lived together, about 20,
18 30 metres away from Agim's. We were in the same courtyard.
19 Q. The yard of your house, was it enclosed by a wall? Was there a
20 wall?
21 A. Yes, we had a wall, but it was not a tall wall.
22 Q. What was it made of?
23 A. It was made of concrete blocks.
24 Q. Thank you. Did you have a gate?
25 A. Yes.
Page 5603
1 Q. What was the height of the gate, and what was the gate made of?
2 A. The door was made of iron. It was about 2 metres, 2 metres and
3 20 centimetres high, and 4 metres wide.
4 Q. Thank you. Before you arrived in your cousin's yard, where were
5 you?
6 A. I was in the street near my house and Agim's house. There is a
7 transformer there, and we were talking among ourselves. Because of the
8 27th of March in the afternoon, the police forces had driven out of
9 Mamushe village all the people -- all its population, and we could see
10 them passing by in tractor, walking on foot, women crying with children.
11 Among them were also my sister and her brother, and she said, Where are
12 they? I don't know where they are taking us. And I said, I don't know.
13 And this happened on the 27th of March, 1999. So we were there
14 for a couple of minutes.
15 On the 28th then a white jeep or Niva came near the house of
16 Fadil and Safet Kryeziu, and we entered Agim's house. In a minute, I
17 don't know, as if they sprang up from the ground, the house was filled
18 with military and police forces. And they broke down the doors and fired
19 at the houses in all directions.
20 Q. Thank you. Can I conclude then, that on the 28th of March, that
21 is to say before that morning, you did not leave your house or the yard?
22 A. I didn't leave the house because we didn't dare leave the house
23 because there were so many check-points maybe every 100 metres or so.
24 Q. I apologise, I said that morning, but I meant to say before 4.00
25 p.m. on the 28th of March, you did not leave your house, did you?
Page 5604
1 A. That's correct, but I went out to the street and met neighbours
2 or friends and talked. But whenever we saw forces coming by, we went
3 inside because they always directed their weapons to us and cursed our
4 Albanian mothers as if that was the most normal thing to do.
5 Q. Thank you. The transformer station you mentioned is quite close
6 to your house; am I correct?
7 A. That's correct. It is closer to my cousin's house, but also
8 close to my house. 50, 60 metres away from my house.
9 Q. Thank you. Did you wear the traditional Albanian head-gear?
10 A. No.
11 Q. And the people you spoke to, did they wear it?
12 A. Some did, especially the elderly people. Some of them do even
13 now, and they will always wear these skull caps because it's part of our
14 national costume. Usually the young people don't wear them.
15 Q. I'm familiar with that. It is usually the elderly from rural
16 areas that wear such caps, but younger people and people living in urban
17 areas usually do not; am I correct?
18 A. There are some persons who wear them, some don't. I never wore
19 it. No one in my family wears such a cap.
20 Q. Thank you. In Dusanovo there were Serb families, as you
21 mentioned, and you specified several Serb last names. If one went down a
22 street in such an environment, how could you tell one person from the
23 next in terms of their ethnic background?
24 A. I gave my statement, and I abide by it, that about 20 Serbian
25 households, I couldn't know all of them, they were Serbs and
Page 5605
1 Montenegrins. Until that time before the war started in Kosova, we got
2 on well together with the Serbs. We didn't have any problems. We
3 respected each other. If there were 200 Albanians and 2 Serbs working in
4 the same place, we used to speak Serbian even though they knew Albanian
5 but they never spoke Albanian, but we did speak Serbian. We respected
6 them as a minority.
7 Q. Thank you, Witness. Please listen carefully to my questions.
8 Everything you said so far in all the statements and transcripts is
9 something we have before us. We are familiar with those. I simply want
10 to put questions to you which had not been asked of you until now. I'm
11 not interested in anything else, the rest is before the Chamber.
12 My question is, how could someone like the police or the forces
13 that were in your village tell which nationality or of which ethnic
14 background you are?
15 A. Yes, because all the Serbs in the village of former -- called
16 Dushanove now Urbana
17 Serbia
18 because they knew that something was going to happen. So they expected
19 fighting, but we, being unarmed, being in a position to do nothing, were
20 forced to leave the house being subjected to beating, maltreatment,
21 robbing, and all this. And all this happened -- was done by the Serb
22 police and army.
23 Q. You are trying to tell me that Milos Scekic and
24 Nebojsa Ognjenovic did not live in their houses?
25 A. During those days they must not have lived there because they
Page 5606
1 knew what was going to happen. Because we too as I said were afraid to
2 leave our houses even some days prior to what happened. And we saw many
3 neighbours dressed in police uniforms. People whom we knew.
4 Q. Thank you. Can I conclude then that it is your presumption that
5 Scekic and Ognjenovic moved out?
6 A. I cannot say with certainty because those two lived further down,
7 but Petkovic was -- lives closer to me, and he left with his house. His
8 son too was mobilised in the police. Stanisa Petkovic also. Because I
9 saw them in police uniforms, all my neighbours were mobilised in the
10 police.
11 Q. Thank you. The police were tasked with the regular policing
12 duties, but in their spare time they must have lived in their homes?
13 A. I already said that they were not regular police. They were
14 police who wanted to beat Albanians, to kill them, to force them to flee
15 their territories. We see policemen everywhere, but they behave in a
16 normal way. Of course they have their policing duties, but it's not part
17 of their duties, I suppose, to beat people, to violate people, to rob
18 people.
19 Q. Am I correct that when you discuss those policemen, you do not
20 have in mind regular active-duty policemen in Prizren?
21 A. I already said these were civilians, and were drafted, mobilised
22 by the government of Serbia
23 so, and they were used against Albanians.
24 Q. Thank you. What kinds of uniforms did you see on the 20th while
25 you were still in Dusanovo?
Page 5607
1 A. We saw dark blue police uniforms. We saw SMB colour uniform and
2 camouflage uniform. I saw people dressed in black uniforms, people
3 wearing beards, long hair, with those caps called "sajkaca," with
4 Chetniks' kokards, with long bloody knives. And this reminded me the
5 movie of Draza Mihailovic, and I thought that the Chetniks were back in
6 Kosova.
7 Q. Thank you. The people in black uniforms, were you able to see
8 their insignia?
9 A. I saw only the kokards. Their black kokards, the kokardas of
10 Chetniks, long beards, long hair, and the bloody knives.
11 Q. Will you please describe of what material this cockade was made
12 of and what it looked like?
13 A. Haven't worked in that factory where they are produced, I never
14 managed to touch it. They were very sad to see on those people's heads.
15 They were terrifying us. They were putting knives to our throats. Ask
16 experts in those factories where they were produced, they will tell you
17 exactly what they were made of. There are people in Serbia to this day
18 that wear them.
19 Q. When you were in the army, what kind of cap did you wear?
20 A. Used to wear the caps of the former Yugoslav army. They were
21 normal army caps, and there was a star on the cap.
22 Q. Witness, I've never heard of any factory making cockades. But
23 please describe the cockade to me, because I can't understand what kind
24 of cap you are talking about. I also watched movies like you did, I know
25 what they looked like during the World War II. But tell me, what did
Page 5608
1 those caps look like, and what is it that you call cockade?
2 A. I've seen that cockade earlier in the film by Draza Mihailovic.
3 They had exactly the same uniform, the same cockades, the same uniforms;
4 and I thought that Draza Mihailovic was back in Kosovo.
5 Q. What kind of insignia did you see on those uniforms?
6 A. As I said, I wasn't focused to watch the details, what signs,
7 what emblems were on those cockades; but I knew that those black cockades
8 were part of the Chetnik uniforms. I said, I remember that it was
9 exactly the same as the cockades and uniforms that I saw in the field. I
10 haven't had the opportunity to handle that cockade. To see what it feels
11 like and what it looks like.
12 Q. I stopped asking you about cockades. I'm not asking you about
13 cockades anymore, I'm asking you about insignia.
14 Are there any differences between the cockade and the uniform?
15 A. Wearing black uniforms, long beards, cockades.
16 Q. Witness, you mentioned seeing several uniforms, I'm asking you if
17 you had seen -- noticed some insignia on those uniforms, and if you did,
18 what kind?
19 A. I saw on the left-hand side they had the writing Beli Orlovi,
20 White Eagles.
21 Q. Very well. Did you see any other insignia?
22 A. Maybe I've seen, but it's ten years since I last saw them, and I
23 can't remember anything else other than Beli Orlovi, which I've seen
24 myself. And I wasn't any more interested in the detail, but how to save
25 myself, the life of my family, my brother, my nieces and nephews, and so
Page 5609
1 on.
2 Q. When you left the yard of this relative of yours, what happened
3 then?
4 A. I took my car and my brother who is handicapped, and his son, and
5 the whole family; and we set out. I popped out of the car to lock the
6 doors of my house, but the police put the weapons to my head and said
7 don't lock the doors to your house. And then they got into the house and
8 looted everything.
9 Q. Please, let's go step by step when you answer my questions. You
10 left the house of your relative and got to your own house. Did you go
11 into your own house? Just answer yes or no, I have to finish this.
12 A. I told my wife, let's get out and leave. She started crying and
13 the children were crying, the women were crying. I told them, Don't cry,
14 we will slowly get out of here. Nothing will happen to us. But then we
15 heard gun-shots, and as I wanted to lock the doors into my house, I was
16 not allowed to.
17 Q. Were there any police in your yard when you arrived?
18 A. There were police everywhere. They broke the gates of the houses
19 with tanks, armoured vehicles, whatever they had.
20 Q. Please answer my questions straightforwardly. When you came to
21 your own yard, were there any police there or soldiers, whoever?
22 A. At that moment, no, but the doors were open. They came to the
23 door, they were calling names on us. But in the courtyard of the
24 Kryeziu, yes, they were there. It was in the courtyard of Agim Kryeziu.
25 We lived in the same compound, although we had our separate households as
Page 5610
1 of 1975. However, there are about seven houses in the same compound. We
2 share the same property, the same land.
3 Q. Do you and Agim share the same yard?
4 A. It was a territory of 42 acres, and Agim Kryeziu had his own
5 courtyard and we had ours; and it was like 50 metres distance between the
6 two.
7 Q. Was there a wall between your yard and Agim's?
8 A. Yes.
9 Q. Thank you. So we finally established that the police did not --
10 or rather, these forces, these troops who were there, did not enter your
11 yard?
12 A. They were at the gates of my courtyard because we share the same
13 alleyway, the three brothers. The gates were open, and they were out
14 there calling names on us and shouting and yelling, telling us, Get out,
15 go to Albania
16 Q. Is your garage within your yard?
17 A. The garage is at the entrance by the main road as you enter into
18 the house.
19 Q. Who else got into the car with you?
20 A. I didn't know where my son Bekim was and his wife. I didn't know
21 where my daughter was. It was my wife who got on, my mother-in-law, and
22 there were some other people from Bellacerke, they were friends who had
23 come over, they were mostly women and children.
24 Q. How many of you got into that car?
25 A. I can't remember exactly whether it was four or five.
Page 5611
1 Q. Thank you. And you set out in that car; right?
2 A. Yes.
3 Q. And when you got the car out of the yard, you stopped?
4 A. So went on to the main transit road. I popped out of the car to
5 close the gates and the doors into the house, but I was threatened not
6 to. Then I went back into the car. And within 500 metres, the police
7 stopped us. That's where we were threatened, our cars were taken.
8 Q. Thank you.
9 A. My brother's car as well was taken away.
10 Q. Where were your sons and daughter and your daughter-in-law?
11 A. My son and his wife went to their uncle's in Prizren. There was
12 a fear. Whereas my daughter who was married, she is in Ortokol -- she
13 was in Ortokol. When they took my car, they also asked me about the --
14 where my son was, Bekim.
15 Q. Where is the check-point where you were stopped?
16 A. It wasn't a check-point. I told you that the road is about 2
17 kilometres, and it's 18 metres wide. On both sides there were masked
18 policemen and soldiers; and near the house of Milos Scekic, there where
19 we were also beating Ahmetaj, Abdurrahman Ahmetaj. There they stopped
20 us.
21 Q. Please, did you go out on to the main road, Prizren-Djakovica,
22 with your car?
23 A. We were not allowed to get there. We were not allowed to get to
24 the Prizren-Gjakove road, but we were stopped on the road which is the
25 transit road that goes towards Prizren.
Page 5612
1 Q. And you say you were stopped by the police there? Or it wasn't
2 the police. Who stopped you?
3 A. Everybody was masked, policemen and soldiers, as well as those
4 that I -- the Chetniks I described earlier with the cockades and the
5 black uniforms and the long beards.
6 Q. What kind of uniform was on those men in camouflage? What
7 colour?
8 A. Are you talking about the Serb police and army uniforms?
9 Q. I'm talking about the camouflage uniforms you just mentioned.
10 I'm asking you what colour they were. I don't know who was wearing them.
11 A. There were people wearing camouflage uniforms.
12 Q. Can you tell me what was the design on them?
13 A. I haven't touched them, and I don't know about the design or who
14 made them. All I know is that they were camouflage uniforms. You can
15 ask those who produced them about the design.
16 Q. Thank you. And did you see any insignia on those uniforms?
17 A. Maybe there were symbols, there were insignia. I saw some which
18 were the Beli Orlovi. But there was no time for us to think and watch
19 and observe these details because we were fearing for our lives, we were
20 being beaten up, we were being looted, and we had no time to focus on
21 what insignia they were wearing.
22 Q. Am I right in thinking that you did not even dare look sideways
23 in fear of these people?
24 A. We didn't dare to turn our heads and look behind us for a long
25 time, but obviously we could see around us who was there and what they
Page 5613
1 were wearing.
2 Q. Thank you. But you were not able to distinguish the colour of
3 the uniform or the insignia.
4 Tell me, why did you stop after 500 metres?
5 A. We were stopped by the police. They had pointed the gun to my
6 brother's head and his son. I stopped there, and I addressed the
7 Milos Scekic who was wearing a stocking -- a lady's stocking on his head
8 and told him, Please, commander, leave us -- allow us to have a car
9 because my brother is handicapped, and he cannot walk. And my wife
10 opened the boot to take something, and they hit her with the butt of
11 their automatic weapons, and she fainted.
12 I was lucky to have a bottle of water in the car, and some people
13 there helped us to revive her. And my brother who was handicapped was
14 taken to Prizren in a car. He had only one leg. And then we carried on
15 with our journey and travelled all night long, all night through until we
16 reached Albania
17 Q. Thank you. Did your brother have his own family? Was he married
18 with children?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Did he have his wife and children with him?
21 A. Yes. His elder brother -- his elder son, a nephew, his
22 daughter-in-law, and there was also a young child who we had to carry all
23 the way up until we reached Albania
24 Q. Thank you. Was your brother's wife in the car with you?
25 A. No.
Page 5614
1 Q. From your house to the border, you said there were 40 kilometres.
2 How long did it take you to cover that distance?
3 A. That's exactly what I've said, but I haven't measured the
4 distance. We walked all the night from 5.00 in the afternoon until the
5 next morning. And it's roughly about 40 kilometres, and that's according
6 to the assessment of people who have travelled that road before. So we
7 walked for about 40 kilometres.
8 Q. You confused me a bit now. Did you reach the Prizren-Djakovica
9 road at all?
10 A. Your Honour, we didn't -- I didn't confuse you, but you confused
11 yourself. We came out to the school of the village, that's where we were
12 allowed to take the road towards Prizren.
13 Q. Did you get out onto the main road at all, the Prizren-Djakovica
14 road?
15 A. I don't know whether you are understanding me. We went to the
16 school of the village then. Then we were allowed to go to the main road
17 towards Prizren.
18 Q. That's what I'm asking you. So you did come to the main road.
19 Now, going on the main road, how did you continue? Did you turn right
20 into the industrial zone and use the roundabout way to get to the
21 intersection with Putnik Hotel on it?
22 A. We continued on the main road because we did not dare to divert
23 our road. And there is an industrial zone there, and there are some
24 companies there, Printex, Famipa [phoen]. There there was a group of
25 policemen, and we saw them maltreating people. And they stopped the
Page 5615
1 cars, and they beat people up. And up until Zhur we saw the police on
2 both sides and they were travelling on the opposite side. In Zhur there
3 was the check-point. And the next one was on the border with Albania
4 Vermice.
5 Q. Thank you. How wide is the Prizren-Djakovica road?
6 A. I haven't measured, but around 6 metres.
7 Q. How wide is the road in the industrial zone?
8 A. I haven't measured, but it's about 7 to 8 metres, or 6. I don't
9 know. I'm not sure.
10 Q. Thank you. The road from Prizren to Vrmnica, the border
11 crossing, is it the same width?
12 A. I don't know. I already said that I am not an expert and I
13 haven't measured the roads. But I can tell you about where I lived, so
14 that's where I have better knowledge.
15 Q. Were you driving?
16 A. I drove the car.
17 Q. Did you ever go by car on this road towards the border?
18 A. Maybe we've been out to Vermice to have the fish. There was a
19 place that cooked very good fish in Vermice. We had the money, of
20 course.
21 Q. Okay. Did you drive on that road?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. That column you were in, did it occupy the whole road?
24 A. Yes, the column occupied the whole road. They were all elderly,
25 women, children. They were older people, up to 100 years old, and there
Page 5616
1 were people who needed assistance. This does not appear to have happened
2 anywhere else in the world. I hope it doesn't.
3 Q. Thank you. And from Zur, did you go the same way to the border
4 crossing from the intersection towards Zur or towards Vrmnica? Did you
5 move in the same way in?
6 A. We followed the same road from Zhur to Vermice. But along the
7 way, they had put up large concrete blocks, so we had to go through --
8 some people were saying that we had better not cross over that -- to the
9 other area behind the concrete blocks because the Serbs will have mined
10 that area, so we were all in a dilemma.
11 Q. And you went on that road towards the border crossing?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Tell me this, you recognised Milos Scekic although he was wearing
14 a stocking on his head?
15 A. Yes. I recognised him, and I spoke to him personally.
16 Q. And the commander of the Prizren police station confirmed to you
17 that it was him wearing a stocking on his head?
18 A. I knew him very well because I had lived with him in the same
19 village for 40 years. Some soldiers and some other persons with beards
20 said to me, Shut up or else you will be executed. Get off your car. But
21 I said I could recognise him because he was wearing this lady's stocking,
22 brown in colour. I could tell his face. I could recognise his voice.
23 Even nowadays if I see him, I would be able to recognise him because, as
24 I said, we've lived together for 40 years in the village.
25 Q. Did he have anything on his head?
Page 5617
1 A. Most probably a head-gear on top of the stocking.
2 Q. My last question: What kind of uniform was Nebojsa Ognjenovic
3 wearing?
4 A. Nebojsa had a police uniform. I saw him at the customs office on
5 the border with Albania
6 about my car, where my car was. And at the border, I saw how they
7 confiscated cars, identification documents. They would throw these
8 documents on some bins or tear them apart.
9 Q. Thank you. What was the colour of that uniform?
10 A. They are normal police uniform, in one solid colour.
11 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.
12 Thank you, Witness, I have no more questions.
13 I have completed my cross-examination, Your Honours.
14 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, sir.
15 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.
16 Yes, Mr. Behar.
17 MR. BEHAR: Your Honours, I can just indicate I have no further
18 questions. Thank you.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Behar, thank you.
20 You'll be pleased to know that completes the questioning. The
21 Chamber would like to thank you for coming to The Hague and for the
22 assistance that you've been able to give us. We know it's not your first
23 visit; we are grateful that you've come more than once. You may now, of
24 course, return to your normal activities, and we will study your evidence
25 in due course. Thank you, sir. The court officer will --
Page 5618
1 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honours. Thank
2 you, everybody in the courtroom.
3 [The witness withdrew]
4 JUDGE PARKER: This is obviously an appropriate occasion for the
5 second break. We will resume at 5 minutes past 1.00. We now adjourn.
6 --- Recess taken at 12.34 p.m.
7 --- On resuming at 1.08 p.m.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Nilsen.
9 MS. NILSEN: Good afternoon, Your Honours. The next witness will
10 be Mr. Hani Hoxha. Your Honours, while we are waiting, I can just
11 mention, I know an issue has been raised regarding the Milosevic
12 transcript which was not in the notification list, the exhibits to the
13 Defence.
14 [The witness entered court]
15 MS. NILSEN: The transcript is now added to the list, and I will
16 seek to tender it, and the Defence counsel has already been notified.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Your prayers are answered.
18 Good afternoon, Mr. Hoxha. Will you please read aloud the
19 affirmation shown to you now.
20 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] I solemnly declare that I will
21 speak the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth.
22 WITNESS: HANI HOXHA
23 [Witness answered through interpreter]
24 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. Please sit down.
25 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you.
Page 5619
1 JUDGE PARKER: Yes, Ms. Nilsen.
2 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
3 Examination by Ms. Nilsen:
4 Q. Good afternoon, Witness. Could you please state your full name
5 and birth date for the record?
6 A. My name is Hani Hoxha. I was born on the 16th of May, 1937, in
7 Gjakove.
8 Q. Before we start, I understand that you are wearing those dark
9 glasses out of medical reasons; is that correct?
10 A. That's correct.
11 Q. You said you were born in Djakovica. Do you still live in this
12 village?
13 A. Yes.
14 Q. And did you provide a statement to the Office of the Prosecution
15 on the 22nd of April, 1999?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. Did you have a chance to read through this statement before you
18 came to court today?
19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Are you satisfied that the information in the statement is a
21 correct reflection of what you remembered happened in 1999?
22 A. Yes, I am.
23 MS. NILSEN: Then I seek to tender this statement from
24 22nd of April, 1999, with the 65 ter number 02230 into evidence,
25 Your Honours.
Page 5620
1 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
2 THE REGISTRAR: And that will be assigned P00879, Your Honours.
3 MS. NILSEN:
4 Q. Mr. Hoxha, did you also testify in the Milosevic trial on the
5 3rd July, 2002
6 11th of August, 2006?
7 A. Yes, I did.
8 Q. And have you been given a chance to review those transcripts with
9 a language assistant before you came to the court?
10 A. Yes, I did.
11 Q. If you were asked the same questions as you were back then, would
12 you provide the same answer today?
13 A. Yes, I think so. Yes.
14 MS. NILSEN: Then I seek it to tender those transcript into
15 evidence, Your Honours.
16 JUDGE PARKER: They will each be received.
17 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, 65 ter numbers 02231 for the Milosevic
18 transcript.
19 THE REGISTRAR: That will be assigned P00880, Your Honours.
20 MS. NILSEN: And the transcript of the Milutinovic et al. case is
21 65 ter number 05059.
22 THE REGISTRAR: And that will be assigned P00881, Your Honours.
23 MS. NILSEN: I will now read out the court summary for this
24 witness.
25 The witness has testified that the local Serb villagers in
Page 5621
1 Djakovica and surrounding areas formed a civic defence unit 1 to 2 months
2 prior to the NATO bombing in March 1999. This civic defence which
3 harassed and intimidated the local Albanian residents was, according to
4 the witness, not formed by local initiative, but by the Yugoslavian
5 government. The civic defence unit wore slightly different blue uniforms
6 than the MUP.
7 On or about 27th of March, 1999, the witness observed houses
8 being burned and shots fired in his neighbourhood, Culak quarter. The
9 Serb police tried to enter his gate, but they did not succeed and instead
10 they entered his neighbour's house, killed the owner of the house
11 Shefqet Pruti and then set the house on fire.
12 The police then went to another neighbour of the witness,
13 Avni Ferizi, broke through his gate and shot the owner of the house dead.
14 Ferizi's family went to the local police to report the murders and were
15 told to go and complain to NATO. The police retrieved and buried the
16 bodies.
17 The witness moved his family to the basement of the Vejsa home at
18 Milos Gilic street
19 On the night of the 1st of April, the Serb police began breaking the gate
20 of this house. The men decided to flee, thinking the women and children
21 would not be harmed.
22 The witness stayed in the area long enough to see 8 to 10 armed
23 attackers, some wearing masks. He heard gun-shots and saw houses being
24 burned.
25 On 2nd of April, he went back to Vejsa home where he had fled
Page 5622
1 from, and he found the house burned to the ground. He also found the
2 witness Dreni Caka, 12 years old at that time, who told the witness that
3 the attackers had killed all the women who were staying in the house, his
4 own and the witness's female family members included.
5 Later that day, the witness left Djakovica in a 3 kilometre long
6 convoy of Kosovar Albanian civilians. The VJ transported the elderly and
7 the infirm to the border by tractor. The witness was forced to give up
8 his identity documents by MUP.
9 And this is the end of the court summary.
10 While we are waiting for the translation to be completed, could
11 we please have up 65 ter number 00275 on the screen, which is an aerial
12 photo of Djakovica. It's supposed to be a picture with the
13 65 ter number 00275. Thank you. If you can just zoom in a little bit.
14 Q. Mr. Hoxha, in your statement from 1999 you have explained how you
15 took your family to the basement of the Vejsa home of the
16 Milos Gilic Street
17 there.
18 I would now like you to circle around the house that you moved
19 into where you stayed with several other people in this street. And the
20 usher will assist you with a pen.
21 A. This house here with this white wall and this window was the bar
22 of my son-in-law Lulzim Vejsa. In the basement of this house were
23 sheltered 21 persons, my late wife and two daughters. In this other part
24 here --
25 Q. I'll stop you there, Mr. Hoxha. Could you please draw a larger
Page 5623
1 circle around this house so it's easier for us to see.
2 A. [Marks]
3 Q. Thank you, if you could just put a number 1 in that, and then you
4 can continue with what you are about to explain.
5 A. In this facility here in the basement, the entrance is from
6 behind, were sheltered 21 persons on the night of the event. I, my
7 son-in-law Luli and his son-in-law Behar stayed in this house within the
8 same yard. You cannot see that house here because it was taken after
9 that house was burnt. We stayed here trying to keep guard, so to say,
10 because I believe you have read my statement and some events had taken
11 place before which gave us the impression the situation was not a good
12 one. It was in fact a serious one.
13 It was night, there was no electricity. At about 12.00 midnight
14 my son-in-law came. I was lying fully dressed, and he woke me up and
15 said that the situation seemed very grave. I woke up my son-in-law Luli
16 and Behar, went in a direction that I don't know.
17 Q. Thank you, Mr. Hoxha. I'm going to stop you there.
18 So the house that you have circled, is it correct that this -- in
19 this basement was the bar or the shop that you have explained in your
20 statement also?
21 A. This is where the store is. It's a store; it's not a house.
22 It's a pool place. There are two shops here, whereas the dwelling house
23 is this one.
24 Q. The dwelling house, could you please also mark a circle on that
25 one.
Page 5624
1 A. The dwelling house used to be here. You can't see it in this
2 picture; I'm putting a 2 here. This is where I stayed, in that dwelling
3 house where I spent that critical night. The night where this tragedy
4 occurred.
5 Q. And is it correct that the other one -- other people spent the
6 night in the basement of the number 1 circle?
7 A. That's correct.
8 Q. How many people were there approximately, or maybe you remember
9 accurate, how many people spent the night there?
10 A. The number of people who spent the night there was exactly 21.
11 Q. And were there other people except your family who spent the
12 night there?
13 A. Yes, there were. My wife, my daughter -- unmarried daughter.
14 There was my married daughter Tululi with her five kids, her
15 mother-in-law. There was Fetije's daughter, the owner of the house with
16 her three children. There was another woman with three children. There
17 was Fetije's brother Hysen Gashi was his name. And another family, a
18 woman from Caka family with her three daughters and a son.
19 Q. Thank you. Then I would also like you to draw a circle around
20 the place that you were hiding during the attack of this house as you
21 have described also in your statement.
22 A. I don't remember the exact place but approximately, if I'm not
23 mistaken, must be somewhere here. I'll put a question mark here to
24 indicate that I'm not certain because it was night, and I never went back
25 to that place. Because each time I go past that place, I feel very bad
Page 5625
1 because you can -- very uncomfortable. You can imagine how one can feel
2 after losing the wife and the children. So it's not with pleasure that I
3 walk past this place. I may err on the side of 2 or 3 metres, but
4 approximately this circle here shows the place where I was hiding on that
5 critical night.
6 Q. And for how long did you hide in this place?
7 A. We stayed there until dawn. When it dawned, I came out of that
8 place, there were two walls and a narrow gap between the two. I thought
9 it would lead me somewhere out; but when I found another wall at the end
10 of the alley, I stayed there for another six hours. I can't remember
11 exactly. But when the security forces who conducted the massacre left,
12 then I came out of that place. And there I was joined by a neighbour
13 from the same area.
14 And then we went to the house we were in initially, and when I --
15 when we went back there, I noticed that Luli's house was burned to the
16 ground. Then I went to the basement where I saw the bodies of my -- I
17 went to find my wife and daughters and other people who were in there,
18 but I didn't find anyone. I thought they had left and then went to
19 another room where another uncle of Luli's lived. There I saw the body.
20 And at that point, I started thinking of the worst.
21 And when we came to the house where we lived, as it was burned to
22 the ground, the neighbour who joined me, they saw a part of a human
23 flesh. And at that point, I started thinking of the worst. I didn't
24 touch the area because I wanted to remember the good memories of my wife
25 and my daughters. And at that point, I knew nothing of what had really
Page 5626
1 happened.
2 When we moved two blocks further away, we went to the house where
3 the young boy escaped the massacre. I met him, and he explained to me in
4 detail what had happened. He is an eye-witness to what happened, and you
5 can ask him for the detail of that tragic event.
6 Q. Thank you, Mr. Hoxha. I'm just going to go back to the house
7 that you have circled, the white house, number 1. You said it was 21
8 people staying there overnight while you were staying in the house next
9 to it or the vicinity of that marked with number 2. How many people
10 stayed with you in this -- where you have circled around with number 2?
11 A. The house marked number 2, it was me, my son-in-law, and a cousin
12 of him, Gani Hoxha, and Luli Vejsa.
13 THE INTERPRETER: And another one, interpreters couldn't get his
14 name.
15 MS. NILSEN:
16 Q. Can you repeat the last name of the person you stayed there with?
17 A. Behar Haxhiavdija.
18 Q. Amongst these 21 people staying in the house circled with
19 number 1, were there any men among these people?
20 A. There was a 50-, 55-year-old man, but he had mental problems.
21 Q. Thank you.
22 MS. NILSEN: If we could please have up 65 ter number -- sorry.
23 I would like to seek to tender this annotated picture into evidence,
24 Your Honours.
25 JUDGE PARKER: It will be received.
Page 5627
1 MS. NILSEN: Thank you.
2 THE REGISTRAR: And that will be assigned P0082 [sic],
3 Your Honours.
4 MS. NILSEN: And then if we could have up 65 ter number 02230.
5 And the last page of the English version, I believe it's page number 11
6 in e-court.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Djurdjic.
8 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] I'm sorry, is this point in the
9 transcript correct, it says P0082. Isn't it P00882, this picture?
10 JUDGE PARKER: P00882. Thank you.
11 MS. NILSEN: I'd like to have this sketch over the whole screen,
12 usher. It would be nice. Are you able to zoom it in a little bit more?
13 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Can you zoom in a little bit so
14 that I can read better?
15 MS. NILSEN:
16 Q. How is it now, Mr. Hoxha, are you able to read the names now, or
17 would you like it to be zoomed in even further?
18 A. If it's possible, let's zoom in a little bit further.
19 Q. Mr. Hoxha, would you please explain to the Court what this sketch
20 is, what is it showing?
21 A. This sketch has been drafted in Tirana by me and another young
22 man where I lived. This shows the names of all the victims except for my
23 name here at the top, Hani Hoxha. This is my wife, Shahindere Hoxha.
24 Q. [Microphone not activated] ... would read out what you would
25 like to describe?
Page 5628
1 A. Shahindere Hoxha, it's my wife. 56 years old. My late daughter
2 Flaka Hoxha, born in 1983. This is my close family. So I have lost my
3 wife and my daughter Flaka.
4 Q. Who made this list [Microphone not activated]?
5 A. This was drafted by me and a young man in Tirana who helped me do
6 this. I told him the names, and he helped me design this.
7 Q. There are in total 23 names on this list, and there are three
8 names saying "alive" underneath?
9 A. Yes.
10 Q. Would you be able to list those three names that you explained on
11 the sketch --
12 A. The people who were alive, it's Hani Hoxha, myself;
13 Lulezim Vejsa, my son-in-law; and the son-in-law of my son-in-law,
14 Behar Haxhiavdija. I do not see here the name of the one who escaped the
15 massacre, but it seems it's not here.
16 Q. What would be the name of the person who escaped?
17 A. I mentioned his name, it's Drini Caka.
18 Q. I think you are correct in that, it's not mentioned in the list.
19 Is it then correct that the rest of the people on this list were present
20 in this house and got killed under the attack?
21 A. That's correct.
22 Q. And would all of these 20 people -- were all of these 20 people
23 women except from this 55-year-old man you were talking about?
24 A. No. The son of my daughter was there, five-year-old
25 Arlind Vejsa. He is male. There is also a another boy, the son of Behar
Page 5629
1 or somebody else, I can't remember. I think it's Behar's son. He was
2 five year old too, a male. And the boy who is alive, who escaped, there
3 was also Hysen Gashi the brother of Fetije Vejsa. The rest were all
4 women.
5 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, Mr. Hoxha. Your Honours, I have no
6 further questions for this witness, and the sketch is already there in
7 the statement. Thank you.
8 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.
9 Mr. Djurdjic.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Your Honour, shall I begin?
11 JUDGE PARKER: You have nearly 10 minutes, is that less than
12 practical, would you prefer to commence again on Monday?
13 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] It's Friday, we are already tired
14 and there are only seven or eight minutes left, but I can do the
15 introductions. I think we'll deal with this witness very briefly and
16 quickly.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
18 Cross-examination by Mr. Djurdjic:
19 Q. Good afternoon, Mr. Hani Hoxha. My name is Veljko Djurdjic, I'm
20 a member of the Defence team for the accused Mr. Vlastimir Djordjevic.
21 And I'm assisted by Ms. Marie O'Leary, a member of our team.
22 I have a few points to clear up with you, certain things you have
23 said in your statement. I have read all your statements and all the
24 transcripts of your testimony, and I'm familiar with your evidence. I
25 will try to concentrate only on those things that nobody has asked you so
Page 5630
1 far.
2 To begin with, would I be right in saying that you are not an
3 eye-witness to any of the events you testified to? I mean, the events
4 and incidents you spoke about. You did not see any of them?
5 A. That's correct. I haven't seen the executions. I was there.
6 Q. Thank you.
7 A. But that does not mean that there are no eye-witnesses to that
8 tragedy. And the eye-witnesses that I have spoken to, they are prepared
9 to come and testify if they are required to do so.
10 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Hoxha. I have no
11 further questions for you.
12 Thank you, Your Honours, I have completed my cross-examination.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much, Mr. Djurdjic.
14 Do you have any re-examination?
15 MR. DJURDJIC: [Interpretation] Is the microphone working? It's
16 on.
17 Mr. Hoxha, I wish to express my very sincere condolences on
18 behalf of my client and on behalf of our team. Thank you.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Ms. Nilsen.
20 MS. NILSEN: Thank you, Your Honours. The Prosecution do not
21 have any further questions for this witness. Thank you.
22 JUDGE PARKER: Mr. Hoxha, you will be pleased to know that
23 because we are conscious that you need to be away, there is no need for
24 any further questions of you. The Chamber has received your statement
25 and the transcript of the evidence you've given twice now. I think once
Page 5631
1 in the Milosevic trial, and once in the Milutinovic trial. And the
2 Chamber will give some serious attention to that as we come to consider
3 the evidence. And the Chamber has also the opportunity now to study at
4 some length the very helpful chart that has been prepared, setting out
5 the people of your family and others who were killed that night and which
6 you've been able to set out very carefully for us.
7 All of that has been of great assistance, and we are very
8 thankful to you for what you've been able to do, and thankful to you
9 that you've been prepared once again to come to The Hague to assist
10 us.
11 But given the circumstances, we are pleased to be able to say
12 that you do not have a need to answer any more questions and that you
13 are free to go back to your home or as you wish from now. We wish you
14 well on your journey home, and we hope that you manage to continue to
15 find a suitable way of having a satisfactory life.
16 Thank you, sir, and you may now go.
17 THE WITNESS: Thank you.
18 [The witness withdrew]
19 JUDGE PARKER: We are very grateful for the tact shown in respect
20 of the last witness. This seems an appropriate time now, of course, to
21 conclude for the day. We resume on Monday at 2.15.
22 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 1.44 p.m.
23 to be reconvened on Monday the 8th day of
24 June 2009, at 2.15 p.m.
25