Page 2123
1 Friday, 25 November 2011
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 --- Upon commencing at 9.05 a.m.
5 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good morning to everybody in and around the
6 courtroom.
7 Mr. Registrar, please, call the case.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours.
9 This is case number IT-04-84bis-T, The Prosecutor versus
10 Ramush Haradinaj, Idriz Balaj, and Lahi Brahimaj.
11 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
12 Could we have the appearances for the day, starting with the
13 Prosecution.
14 MS. KRAVETZ: Good morning, Your Honours. Daniela Kravetz, for
15 the Prosecution, together with Priya Gopalan, our legal intern,
16 Andrej Micovic, and our Case Manager, Line Pedersen. Thank you.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
18 And for Mr. Haradinaj.
19 MR. EMMERSON: Good morning, Your Honour. Ben Emmerson for
20 Ramush Haradinaj, together with Rodney Dixon, Annie O'Reilly, and
21 Andrew Strong.
22 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Emmerson.
23 And for Mr. Balaj.
24 MR. GUY-SMITH: Good morning. Gregor Guy-Smith, Chad Mair,
25 Gentian Zyberi, on behalf of Idriz Balaj.
Page 2124
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: For Mr. Brahimaj.
2 MR. HARVEY: Good morning, Your Honours. Richard Harvey,
3 assisted by Mr. Paul Troop, and Mr. Luke Boenisch for Mr. Brahimaj.
4 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much, Mr. Harvey.
5 And may the Chamber please move into closed session.
6 [Closed session]
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15 [Open session]
16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are in open session. Thank you.
17 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
18 Yes, Mr. Emmerson.
19 MR. EMMERSON:
20 Q. Witness, you told the Judges yesterday that all of your troubles
21 began when you made statements against a particular named individual in
22 another criminal investigation in Kosovo.
23 Do you remember telling us about that?
24 A. I do.
25 Q. Can we move into private session, please.
Page 2126
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
2 [Private session]
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15 [Closed session]
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23 [Open session]
24 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session. Thank
25 you.
Page 2160
1 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
2 We'll take a break and come back at quarter to 11.00.
3 Court adjourned.
4 --- Recess taken at 10.24 a.m.
5 --- On resuming at 10.46 a.m.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just before I forget, Exhibit D204, may it please
7 be kept under seal.
8 May the Chamber please move into closed session.
9 [Closed session]
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16 [Open session]
17 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session. Thank
18 you.
19 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
20 Yes, Mr. Emmerson.
21 MR. EMMERSON: Could I please tender the document that have
22 previously been on the screen. That's 1D120328 in the English and
23 1D120321 in the Serbian.
24 JUDGE MOLOTO: That's admitted. May it please be given an
25 exhibit number under seal.
Page 2161
1 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, 1D120328 shall be assigned
2 Exhibit D205 under seal. Thank you.
3 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
4 MR. EMMERSON:
5 Q. Witness, the judgement that we've just been looking at --
6 [Trial Chamber confers]
7 MR. EMMERSON: Yes, we should in be in private session.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
9 [Private session]
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9 [Open session]
10 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session. Thank
11 you.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
13 Yes, Mr. Harvey.
14 MR. HARVEY:
15 Q. Witness, I am going to be asking you some questions on behalf of
16 Lahi Brahimaj.
17 First of all, it's right, isn't it, that you have given all of
18 your testimony here in court in B/C/S and not in Albanian?
19 A. Correct.
20 Q. You're not really comfortable speaking Albanian, are you?
21 A. That is not correct.
22 Q. For example, when you gave your first statement to the
23 Prosecution in this case, you indicated that Lahi Brahimaj was addressed
24 by Ramush Haradinaj using the word "dajko"; is that correct?
25 A. Yes, correct.
Page 2187
1 Q. And you told the Prosecution that "dajko" is the Albanian word
2 for a maternal uncle; correct?
3 A. Correct.
4 Q. In fact, the word for maternal uncle is "dajit" [phoen] in
5 Albanian, isn't it, or don't you now?
6 A. It's not "daja" [phoen] it's "daj" [phoen]. Perhaps that would
7 be better. It's not "daja." It's "daj."
8 Q. It's certainly not "dajko," is it?
9 A. "Dajko" is a form of respect, a term of respect. I've already
10 said why it was "dajko." Just like "bace."
11 Q. You're using a Serbian word and not an Albanian one, aren't you?
12 A. I didn't understand this. Could you please be a little clearer?
13 Q. I'm just giving an example, Witness, of the fact that you are not
14 comfortable speaking Albanian. You're much more comfortable speaking
15 Serbian, aren't you?
16 A. No, that is not so.
17 Q. And you don't know Kosovo at all, do you?
18 A. How do you mean, I don't know Kosovo at all?
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4 JUDGE MOLOTO: May I interrupt a little?
5 MR. HARVEY: Please.
6 JUDGE MOLOTO: Are we okay saying all this in open session?
7 MR. HARVEY: I was just trying to stop the witness because I
8 thought we were possibly getting to a point where we should --
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
10 MR. HARVEY: -- go into private.
11 [Private session]
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14 [Open session]
15 [Trial Chamber confers]
16 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session. Thank
17 you.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
19 We'll take a break and come back at half past 12.00.
20 Court adjourned.
21 --- Recess taken at 12.03 p.m.
22 --- On resuming at 12.31 p.m.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into closed session.
24 [Closed session]
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Page 2196
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6 [Open session]
7 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are back in open session. Thank
8 you.
9 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Registrar.
10 Yes, Mr. Harvey.
11 MR. HARVEY: Your Honours, after further consideration of the
12 record so far, and discussion with my colleagues, I've decided that there
13 are no further questions that I need to put to this witness.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much, Mr. Harvey.
15 Madam Kravetz, any re-examination?
16 MS. KRAVETZ: No, Your Honour, I have no re-examination for this
17 witness. Thank you.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you very much.
19 Judges?
20 [Trial Chamber confers]
21 Questioned by the Court:
22 JUDGE DELVOIE: I have one question for the witness.
23 Mr. Witness, on Tuesday, you were asked about the incident with
24 the two Roma boys and the Serb boy, what happened once they arrived at
25 hospital with these three men -- with these three young men.
Page 2197
1 Your answer was:
2 "We waited outside. The local soldiers carried them in. After a
3 quarter hour, maybe, they took them out again."
4 And then the question was:
5 "Were the three young boys still alive when they were taken out
6 of the hospital again?"
7 Your answer is:
8 "They were no longer alive."
9 You remember all that?
10 A. I do remember.
11 JUDGE DELVOIE: My question is this: Were you told or did you
12 hear what happened to them for all three of them to die within a quarter
13 of an hour after arriving at what seems to be a hospital? Were they in
14 such a bad shape when arriving at that hospital, or did something bad
15 happen to them inside? Do you know?
16 A. I do know, yes.
17 JUDGE DELVOIE: Could you explain what you know, or tell us what
18 you know?
19 A. I told you then, and I will repeat now. I can provide an
20 explanation, if I may.
21 When they were taken in, as I've already told you, one of them
22 had his ear cut off. They were black and blue because they had been
23 beaten. They were barely breathing when they were brought in. That's
24 how badly beaten they were.
25 JUDGE DELVOIE: So you don't know of what -- what happened
Page 2198
1 inside, and you took it as normal that quarter an hour afterwards, they
2 were dead, all three of them?
3 A. As I have already told you, Your Honour, I was outside. They
4 were taken in, and I don't know what happened inside, as a matter of
5 fact.
6 JUDGE DELVOIE: Thank you very much.
7 No further questions.
8 JUDGE MOLOTO: Any questions arising from the questions by the
9 Judge.
10 Madam Kravetz?
11 MS. KRAVETZ: No, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just place it on record, Mr. Emmerson.
13 MR. EMMERSON: So sorry. No, Your Honour.
14 MR. GUY-SMITH: None.
15 MR. HARVEY: No, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
17 Sir, that brings us to the end of your testimony. Thank you so
18 much for coming to testify. You are now excused. You may now go back
19 home. Don't go stand up yet. We've got to go into closed session before
20 you get out.
21 May the Chamber please move into closed session.
22 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] May I be heard, Your Honour?
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Well --
24 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Very briefly.
25 JUDGE MOLOTO: Just hold it.
Page 2199
1 [Closed session]
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20 [Open session]
21 [Trial Chamber confers]
22 THE REGISTRAR: We're in open session, Your Honours.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you.
24 MR. EMMERSON: Just two brief matters of housekeeping, if I may,
25 in relation to the last witness.
Page 2200
1 Firstly, there remain the two statements that were put to the
2 witness in cross-examination as to which there is an issue between the
3 parties as to whether they ought to be admitted, and, if so, on what
4 terms. May we consider our position and potentially liaise with the
5 Prosecution and return to the Trial Chamber in relation to them?
6 Secondly, a significant though not, I hope, undue amount of this
7 witness's testimony took place in private session. Given the nature of
8 the evidence, and its importance, we are going to invite the Trial
9 Chamber to release most of what took place in private session subject to
10 careful redactions, and so we will in due course - and I hope sooner
11 rather than later - be filing with the Trial Chamber an application to
12 release into open session a large part of what took place in private
13 session with names and places redacted.
14 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you, Mr. Emmerson.
15 Madam Kravetz?
16 MS. KRAVETZ: We'll deal with those matters when -- when counsel
17 raise them.
18 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
19 Madam Kravetz, what are we going to do next?
20 MS. KRAVETZ: Mr. Rogers will be addressing Your Honours on that
21 matter. Thank you.
22 MR. ROGERS: Your Honours, good afternoon.
23 JUDGE MOLOTO: Good afternoon to you, Mr. Rogers.
24 MR. ROGERS: Your Honours, as you know, there remains one
25 witness, Witness 80. There are no other live witnesses that presently
Page 2201
1 will be called by the Prosecution. Your Honours have before you an
2 application to amend the 65 ter list in relation to one additional
3 witness. Subject to that ruling, there will be no further live evidence
4 in this case.
5 Your Honours, perhaps it's appropriate to go into private session
6 briefly whilst we deal with the situation concerning Witness 80.
7 JUDGE MOLOTO: May the Chamber please move into private session.
8 [Private session]
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8 [Open session]
9 THE REGISTRAR: Your Honours, we are in open session. Thank you.
10 JUDGE MOLOTO: Thank you so much.
11 Given the situation in which we find ourselves, the Chamber will
12 stand adjourned to the 13th of February, unless we hear sooner about
13 Witness 80, in which case a hearing will be scheduled.
14 Court adjourned.
15 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 12.58 p.m.,
16 to be reconvened on Monday, the 13th day of
17 February, 2012, at 2.15 p.m.
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