Page 23551
1 Wednesday, 25 January 2012
2 [Open session]
3 [The accused entered court]
4 [The witness takes the stand]
5 --- Upon commencing at 9.01 a.m.
6 JUDGE KWON: Good morning, everyone. Good morning,
7 Mr. Blaszczyk.
8 THE WITNESS: Good morning, Your Honours.
9 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Robinson.
10 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, good morning, Mr. President. I'd like to
11 introduce to the Chamber John Tso, from China, who is one of our legal
12 interns who will be joining us this session. Thank you.
13 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Nicholls, please continue.
14 MR. NICHOLLS: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning,
15 everyone. Just before I start, if I could give an update on the
16 schedule.
17 We have tried to bring Professor Haglund back as soon as
18 possible. As you know, before the break he had to go home, and we plan
19 on having him testify on Monday. He will be available this coming
20 Monday. I'm not sure exactly where we will be with Mr. Ruez at that
21 point, but our plan would be to call Mr. Haglund on Monday morning and
22 have him start and finish because he needs to get back to his other
23 duties, and he had a window here where he could come and I've informed my
24 friends of that.
25 We would then, I anticipate, continue with Mr. Ruez, some
Page 23552
1 cross-examination likely. Following him we would be calling
2 Mr. Todorovic, KDZ351. He does not have protective measures. Followed
3 by KDZ333, who I won't say the name because he does have protective
4 measures. And lastly, it seems likely that we will not have a witness
5 available today after Mr. Blaszczyk should he finish early.
6 JUDGE KWON: Meaning that Mr. Ruez can only start tomorrow.
7 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes. I believe that is the case. I can check
8 later in the day, but he came in, I believe, late last night.
9 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
10 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
11 JUDGE KWON: Thank you for that information. I take the Defence
12 would appreciate it as well.
13 MR. ROBINSON: We do, Mr. President. Thank you.
14 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Tieger.
15 MR. TIEGER: And as long as we're dealing with such matters, if
16 we could move briefly into private session for another housekeeping
17 matter.
18 JUDGE KWON: Is it okay to proceed in the presence of
19 Mr. Blaszczyk?
20 MR. TIEGER: Oh, that's -- you're quite right. We can deal with
21 this at the beginning of the session before -- beginning the next session
22 before the witness comes in. Thank you, Mr. President.
23 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Nicholls.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
25 WITNESS: TOMASZ BLASZCZYK [Resumed]
Page 23553
1 Further Examination by Mr. Nicholls: [Continued]
2 Q. Good morning, Mr. Blaszczyk.
3 A. Good morning, sir.
4 Q. What I want to do now is as -- as efficiently as we can is move
5 through the road book and the video and explain where the different
6 places are.
7 MR. NICHOLLS: And I'll say for Your Honours and the Registry to
8 make it -- it's a bit complicated because we will be showing videos and
9 showing the road book at the same time. So Mr. Reid will bring up the
10 pages of the road book rather than in e-court, because he is able to do
11 that. So that's the way we plan on -- on proceeding now.
12 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
13 MR. NICHOLLS:
14 Q. All right. We left off yesterday, you explained where we -- the
15 OTP obtained the Petrovic Pirocanac raw video, which is the subject of
16 the road book.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: I'll ask Mr. Reid to please bring up -- we'll just
18 go through the first few pages. This would be page 2 in e-court, the
19 first map. And if we can quickly go to page 3, the next page, and
20 page 4, the next page.
21 Q. Now, quite simply, Mr. Blaszczyk, do these maps and the
22 highlighted regions show the areas contained in the road book and on the
23 video?
24 A. Yes. This map contains the area when the video was recorded.
25 This is area of Potocari, of course, Srebrenica, Zeleni Jadar and
Page 23554
1 Kravica, Sandici, and Pervani. There is -- this map depicts the eastern
2 part of Bosnia-Herzegovina, including Bratunac.
3 Q. Thank you. If we can go to the next page, which would be page 5
4 in e-court. If I'm right, this is simply an aerial image of the same
5 areas?
6 A. Yeah. This is correct. This is the aerial image on the same
7 area. If we look at the map before, we see that it's covering the same
8 area.
9 JUDGE KWON: What does a star represent?
10 THE WITNESS: Sorry, Your Honour. You are referring to which
11 star?
12 JUDGE KWON: Can we go back to -- you see a star in Srebrenica,
13 and then shall we go back to the previous page.
14 THE WITNESS: No. This is -- represents the city, the towns.
15 Ljubovija, Bratunac, Srebrenica.
16 JUDGE KWON: Han Pijesak. Shall we go back to one page.
17 Vlasenica, Han Pijesak, Zvornik. With stars.
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, yes, yes.
19 JUDGE KWON: What do those stars represent? We can go back one
20 page further.
21 THE ACCUSED: If I may help, this is seats of municipalities.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes. Mr. President, he's right. They represent
23 municipalities.
24 JUDGE KWON: So in Eastern Bosnia or, I don't know, Drina region,
25 we have Bratunac, Srebrenica, Zepa. They are all municipalities.
Page 23555
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, it's correct. Sarajevo, then you have --
2 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Thank you, Mr. Karadzic.
3 Let's continue, Mr. Nicholls.
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
5 THE ACCUSED: With just one correction. Zepa was not
6 municipality but is ...
7 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
8 MR. NICHOLLS:
9 Q. And on page 5, Mr. Blaszczyk, simply this is an aerial image of
10 the same highlighted regions?
11 A. Yes, it's correct.
12 Q. We can go to the next page, page 6. It says chapter 1, Potocari.
13 Can you tell us how you divided -- when you made this book, how you
14 divided it into chapters, which chapters you picked?
15 A. This book is divided for five chapters. First chapter, this is
16 Potocari. Then we have the second chapter, this is on the road. Area
17 Sandici, Kravica, Pervani. Then we are -- we on chapter number 3, this
18 is -- let me check. I believe this is Srebrenica chapter. Srebrenica
19 town chapter. Number 4, this is Zeleni Jadar chapter, and number 5 this
20 is Mosque Azemina chapter. It's on the suburb of Srebrenica if we are
21 going towards Bratunac. I divided this book, you know, for these
22 chapters because Mr. Petrovic during his travel in this area on the
23 13 and 14 of July 1995, he was on all this area -- areas. And from the
24 video we are going to play we see -- we see these -- these particular
25 areas.
Page 23556
1 Q. Thank you. If we can go to the next page, page 7. Can you tell
2 us what you -- what this page represents that you've created.
3 A. This is more detailed map of -- of Potocari and -- Potocari area,
4 and in this map you see that I plotted on this map few dots, just yellow
5 dots with black dot inside, you know, and just marked them with number 1,
6 1A, 2A, 2B. This is the location. If we go to the following --
7 following pages we see the picture, you know, and the frames or just
8 stills from the Petrovic video I located on this particular area and
9 using GPS readings I spotted on the map.
10 Q. Okay. Can we go to the next page, page 8. And here where it's
11 hard to show both pages at once, but could you explain before we get to
12 the video, Mr. Blaszczyk, how this photo works. If we look at page 8 on
13 the left and page 9 on the right we see a still from the Petrovic video
14 on the left and a photo taken on the right. Can you just explain how you
15 put it together in this manner.
16 A. Yes. I try to organise this book --
17 Q. Sorry, one moment. Can we show page 9 on the screen now. We can
18 bring up both. Please continue.
19 A. I organise this book in this way, mostly in this way, that on the
20 left-hand side of the book -- left-hand side page we have the still
21 capture from the video, from the Petrovic video, and the right -- on the
22 right-hand side page we have the picture taken by us of the same location
23 spotted by us during our mission in May 2006. And as you see,
24 Your Honours, I marked on -- on the page on the left-hand side, you know,
25 just on the page 8 of the book I marked the picture as picture number A.
Page 23557
1 And on the -- our picture on the page 9, I marked the same location what
2 is depicted on the picture 8 as A. And below on the left-hand side,
3 below the still capture from the Petrovic video, I marked the location --
4 I marked the location I mean the name -- name of the location and the
5 position on the map, the map we saw the page before with this yellow
6 circle with the black dot in. This position on the map is number 1. And
7 we see on this picture on the frame and on my picture we see the same --
8 the same premises. This is DutchBat UNPROFOR base in Potocari.
9 JUDGE KWON: Yes. We can blow-up the bottom on the left side.
10 Yes.
11 THE WITNESS: And also -- also below the still captured from the
12 video Petrovic I -- we put the time --
13 JUDGE KWON: Just a second. Yes, the position on map number 1
14 depicts the position 1 in the previous map.
15 THE WITNESS: Yes, it's correct, Your Honour.
16 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Nicholls.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
18 Q. So then, yes, as His Honour said, if we looked at the map on
19 page 7 - we don't need to bring it up again - we see position 1 marked,
20 and we look at page 8, the DutchBat base, we see that this is position on
21 map number 1.
22 Just before we move on, Mr. Blaszczyk, we see that the counter on
23 the left-hand side, page 8, underneath the still photo is 00:37:13. What
24 does that counter represent? What does that come from?
25 A. This is counter of the time-code. This is time-code from the
Page 23558
1 counter of -- of device we use to copy this -- this particular Petrovic
2 raw video.
3 Q. And is it right that this counter is from the actual raw
4 video-tape you provided to us at 37 seconds, in this case, frame 13 of
5 that second?
6 A. Yes, this is correct.
7 Q. Now, finally you said you used GPS. How were you able -- how
8 familiar are you with this area? How often have you been to the areas in
9 the map book and on the video, and how were you able to precisely locate
10 and GPS these locations? What did you do to make sure you had the right
11 places?
12 A. I've been in this area -- area many times and before -- before
13 this mission in -- in May 2006, and -- and I'm quite familiar with this
14 area, well familiar, I would say.
15 Q. And --
16 A. And even before -- before we decided to -- to spot it, all these
17 locations, and get the GPS readings and get a proper photo of this
18 location, I had a rough idea of where the location were, in fact. Before
19 we went on the mission we just in May 2000 -- 2006, together with video
20 assistant, we made the stills from the Petrovic video interested for us
21 stills. We -- we printed out the stills. We took -- we brought a
22 portable device to play the video itself, a good quality copy of the
23 video, and we went to these places. We compared the stills from the
24 Petrovic video, we compared the features of the terrain, you know, the
25 make-up of the roads, the buildings, the location of the buildings, and
Page 23559
1 looking at -- at these features we spotted the places. As soon as we
2 spotted the place we took the GPS readings. We had a GPS with us.
3 Q. And did you use two GPS devices in order to make sure you had the
4 locations correct?
5 A. Yes. This is correct. We have -- as far as I remember, we had
6 two. I had one, my own GPS, and my colleague had another one.
7 Q. And I believe did you have a portable video player so you could
8 play the video while you were at the locations?
9 A. Yes, yes, we did have.
10 Q. And final question on that: Was I present for part of that
11 mission?
12 A. Yes, correct. You were present in part of this mission.
13 Q. All right.
14 MR. NICHOLLS: Now I'll ask Mr. Reid -- what I'd like to do now
15 is start playing the raw video footage, P00667, and I'll ask you to stop
16 when we get to the appropriate place. So we need to bring that up in
17 Sanction, please.
18 Sorry, just before that, Your Honours, the Sanction counter is
19 about 4 seconds past what we see as the counter number in the video book.
20 That is because the raw data video we captured was digitised and this was
21 as precise a match as it was possible to achieve. If you put -- we found
22 any video on a different DVD or CD player, it's often off by one or two
23 seconds. So the numbers we see on Sanction will be consistently
24 approximately 4 seconds past what we see in the book.
25 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
Page 23560
1 MR. NICHOLLS: Start playing, please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS:
4 Q. All right. We stopped at 41.2 seconds in the Sanction
5 presentation, which matches just about the photo depicted on page 8,
6 photo A that we were talking about of DutchBat, the UNPROFOR base. Can
7 you please tell us, Mr. Blaszczyk, where -- where is Mr. Petrovic
8 Pirocanac and Mr. Borovcanin, in which direction are they travelling now?
9 Where are they going?
10 A. Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac and Mr. Ljubisa Borovcanin, together with
11 their driver, they're travelling towards Srebrenica. They're passing by
12 UN DutchBat now. We see the UN DutchBat location. It's almost reflect
13 the same picture in my book, but on my book, on page 9, I mark the same
14 location but with a little bit bigger perspective.
15 Q. Thank you. And just again, you've marked the directions of
16 travel in each photo on the road book; correct?
17 A. Yes, correct. Below -- below the stills from Petrovic video I
18 mark in red arrows direction of Bratunac and Srebrenica, and we see when
19 Mr. Petrovic and Mr. Borovcanin are passing by, they're driving from
20 Bratunac towards Srebrenica.
21 Q. And just again, what is the date?
22 A. This is 13 of July, 1995.
23 Q. If we could continue playing, please.
24 [Video-clip played]
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. We've stopped at 54.2 in Sanction.
Page 23561
1 And I'll ask Mr. Reid if he can also bring up page 10 of the book so we
2 can compare. All right. And I'll ask Mr. Reid if he could pull up
3 page -- yes. He's got it without me saying the photo.
4 Q. All right. There we see the still of the men walking as you've
5 got it in the book, and in the video how were you -- sorry, if we could
6 now go to page -- the next page of the book, page 11. And you've marked
7 the area below A and B and C where these photos were taken. How were you
8 able to determine this location? Tell us where we are when this photo is
9 taken.
10 A. We are right now in -- in -- in the front of the main gate of the
11 DutchBat and in the front of so-called white house. And this photo was
12 taken from -- from the location exactly where Mr. Petrovic is standing in
13 front of the white house in Potocari. It was very easy to -- to locate
14 this place, because we see also the features and all of the features
15 here, and if -- if we follow the video, we see what Mr. Petrovic and
16 Mr. Borovcanin stop the car, at least when Mr. Petrovic started to record
17 his -- his material.
18 Q. Okay. Let's keep playing then.
19 JUDGE KWON: Just a second. Can we see page 10.
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes.
21 JUDGE KWON: I'm sorry. Yes. The right arrow says that's the
22 Feros building. Is it near white house?
23 THE WITNESS: This is across the road from the white house,
24 Your Honour. This is -- we called it Feros building.
25 JUDGE KWON: Just across the white --
Page 23562
1 THE WITNESS: Yes, exactly. If -- later on if we come to this
2 digital presentation, I will really show it more closely.
3 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
4 THE WITNESS: It will be more visible for you.
5 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Please proceed, Mr. Nicholls.
6 MR. NICHOLLS: Could we keep playing the video, please, Mr. Reid.
7 [Video-clip played]
8 MR. NICHOLLS:
9 Q. And sorry, let's -- a little bit more. Stop. Thank you. We're
10 at 1:02.9, a little bit past photo B on page 10. We can see the building
11 behind where the civilians are walking, the women on one side, the men on
12 the others.
13 MR. NICHOLLS: If we could perhaps bring up the photo, Mr. Reid,
14 photo B.
15 Q. Just very simply, can you tell us what building that is just
16 behind the woman we see with the headscarf.
17 A. This is Feros administration building. Behind this building
18 we -- we called it sometimes Blue Factory, but in the same compound.
19 Feros Factory, but this is administration building of Feros company.
20 Q. And if we could keep playing, please, to 1:23, approximately.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. NICHOLLS:
23 Q. All right. Mr. Blaszczyk, we've stopped at photo C, 1:23.1.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: And I think it may be easier, Mr. Reid, if we just
25 have the still from the video we're playing, if we just have the Sanction
Page 23563
1 video.
2 Q. You've marked it as the woman is walking towards Bratunac; is
3 that right? Can you just tell us briefly how you can tell which
4 direction the people are walking in this video? I'm talking about the
5 civilians, people in civilian clothing.
6 A. Yeah. We see here that Mr. Petrovic with his camera, he pass the
7 road from -- from nearby the white house and he's on the -- in front of
8 this Feros administration building and he's capturing -- he's recording
9 the people who are walking on the left-hand side of the road, you know,
10 just road leading from Bratunac to Srebrenica.
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. And if we could continue playing.
12 [Video-clip played]
13 MR. NICHOLLS:
14 Q. Thank you. The photo we now have -- the still we're at in the
15 Sanction video at 1:38.1 corresponds to photo D. This is the same
16 location, is that right, Mr. Blaszczyk, that you've plotted?
17 A. Yes. This is the same location on the left-hand side of the road
18 leading from Bratunac to Srebrenica.
19 Q. Thank you.
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Just to help get an overview, if I could have now
21 in e-court 65 ter 03199. E-court page 16. All right.
22 Q. There we have an overview of Potocari, an aerial overview.
23 Without you marking it, you see the Feros building marking and a spot
24 marked the white house with a circle. Can you just tell us where -- and
25 we see buses in this aerial. Where the people we just saw walking after
Page 23564
1 Mr. Petrovic had stopped and gotten out of the car, which area was that?
2 A. This is area near to Feros building and to the white house. He
3 was one -- one point he was on the -- on the hand right side of the road,
4 you know, just near the white house, and then he passed the road and he's
5 in the front of this Feros building.
6 Q. Thank you. And just -- actually, could we -- I would like
7 Mr. Blaszczyk to mark one point on this aerial.
8 Not that -- if you wait a sec. We're going to get to an area in
9 a minute called the Blue Building. Is that the same as the Blue Factory
10 or a different building?
11 A. Your Honour, this is a different building. We called it
12 Blue Factory. This belongs to this Feros company. And there is another
13 building, we call it Blue Building. It at that time was coloured by
14 blue -- is blue, in fact, but this is -- distance between these two --
15 two compounds is about 150, 200 metres, less even.
16 Q. And if you can, can you just circle the area you called the
17 Blue Building.
18 A. [Marks]
19 Q. All right. And you've marked that with a red circle, and we'll
20 get to that building in a minute. Could we save that --
21 A. In fact, I think I didn't locate this building inside the circle
22 but --
23 Q. Could we erase --
24 A. -- can I mark it again here?
25 Q. Could we erase that and start again, please.
Page 23565
1 A. [Marks]
2 Q. Thank you. And it's that rectangular building we can see inside
3 the red circle?
4 A. Yes, it's correct.
5 Q. Perhaps could you just write "Blue Building" next to that so it
6 will be very clear when we look at this in the future what you've marked.
7 A. [Marks]
8 JUDGE KWON: Shall we ask Mr. Blaszczyk to -- to date and initial
9 on this aerial image.
10 THE WITNESS: [Marks]
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. I tender that, please, Your Honour.
12 JUDGE KWON: That will be admitted as next Prosecution Exhibit.
13 THE REGISTRAR: Exhibit P4268, Your Honours.
14 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. Now, sorry, it's a bit complicated.
15 If we could go back to Sanction, we'll keep playing the video. If could
16 you play, please, Mr. Reid.
17 [Video-clip played]
18 MR. NICHOLLS:
19 Q. Thank you. We've stopped at 5:08.2. A few -- and if we could go
20 to page 12 of the road book.
21 All right. The still we're now at in the video 5:08.2
22 corresponds to photo B on page 12 approximately. This is position 2 in
23 the photo book, Potocari, 50 metres north of the Express Bus Compound.
24 First, can you just tell us who are the two men we see in the
25 foreground, the man on the right wearing the blue UNPROFOR cap and the
Page 23566
1 man on the left in a camouflage uniform.
2 A. The man with the blue cap, this is Dutch soldier, Dutch Officer
3 van Duijn, and the man talking to him on the left-hand side, this is
4 Mane Djuric. This is commander of the 1st Company of Jahorina Unit from
5 Special Police Brigade of Republika Srpska.
6 Q. And if we could just keep playing for a moment. Sorry, go ahead.
7 A. And to be more clear, Your Honours, I noted here that this
8 location is located 50 metres north of the Express Bus Compound, but a
9 few minutes ago we talk about this Blue Building. This is exactly the
10 Blue Building we have on the right-hand side if we're looking towards
11 Srebrenica. This is in front, not in there, because Blue Building has
12 this only yard and this is on the main road leading from Bratunac to
13 Srebrenica. These two men, they are discussing exactly in this location
14 in front of the yard of the Blue Building.
15 Q. Thank you. If we could keep playing for a moment.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 MR. NICHOLLS:
18 Q. Thank you. We've now stopped at 5:23.3 on video we're playing,
19 which is photo D on page 12.
20 You've got the location mapped out on page 13 of the road book,
21 the photo you took on mission.
22 MR. NICHOLLS: If I could bring that up, please, Mr. Reid.
23 Q. All right. Now if you could just describe how you were able to
24 tell that this is the correct location for the video segment we've just
25 seen with Mr. Van Duijn and with this woman walking towards us in the
Page 23567
1 picture we have now.
2 A. If you notice, Your Honour, this is on the picture D from the
3 page 12 of my book. We see the check-point of -- of Dutch APCs over
4 there, and we see the small -- small bridge. We can call it the small
5 bridge, just small stream is coming behind -- under the bridge over
6 there. On my photo on the page 13 I located this bridge, I mark here
7 this bridge, and the building on the left-hand side on this photo from
8 the page 13, this is new building. It not existed at that time in
9 July 1995. It's a little different view. And, yes, and also the hill
10 behind, in front of us, you know, is visible on the picture from the
11 page 13 is not very clear on this picture D, but it is the same location.
12 Q. Thank you. And if we could continue playing now, please.
13 [Video-clip played]
14 MR. NICHOLLS:
15 Q. Thank you. We've stopped at 6:16.1 on the video. If we could
16 show page 14 of the book. This corresponds closely to photograph C on
17 that page. You've marked this the Blue Building. We've just seen
18 Major Kingori walking here and this DutchBat officer. Just quickly, this
19 is the same Blue Building, not Blue Factory that you circled a minute
20 ago; is that right?
21 A. Yes, this is correct. This is Blue Building I referred to just a
22 few minutes ago, and yard of this building, and, yes, we cannot mistake
23 with Blue Factory which is located next to DutchBat. That Blue Factory
24 is located -- is across the road about 100, 150 metres from this
25 Blue Building.
Page 23568
1 Q. And if we could bring up page 15 now, the recent photo you used
2 to determine this location. That's from your mission to create the road
3 book. Is that the same building we see in photo 1 on page 15, it's the
4 one we were just looking at?
5 A. Yes, this is correct. This is the same building. We can compare
6 in the still from Petrovic video and this photo and we see that this is
7 exactly the same building. It -- how this building looked in 2006. Now,
8 it has been reconstructed and totally it looks different.
9 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. If we can keep playing the video and
10 see what Mr. Petrovic has filmed when he has now walked to the
11 Blue Building location with Mr. Borovcanin.
12 [Video-clip played]
13 MR. NICHOLLS:
14 Q. All right. We've stopped at 6:33.6, quite close to photo D on
15 page 14 of the road book. The man in the foreground in the camouflage
16 uniform with the black patch on his left arm, just for the record who's
17 that?
18 A. This is Ljubisa Borovcanin, deputy commander of the
19 Special Police Brigade of Republika Srpska, at that time the commander of
20 the police forces in this area.
21 Q. We could continue, please.
22 [Video-clip played]
23 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We can't see much where I've stopped
24 it at 7:52.3, but just to try to keep the route clear, we just saw the
25 scene at the Blue Building where Major Kingori was discussing the place
Page 23569
1 that was too crowded, where the men were sitting on each other, and now
2 we see that he is walking with his camera and going somewhere else. Can
3 we play, please.
4 [Video-clip played]
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Maybe go another frame or two until we get a
6 clearer picture. Okay. We're now at 8:03.5 on the video. If I could
7 bring up page 16 of the road book, please. Picture A. That's the still
8 we have.
9 Q. Which location -- where are we now, Mr. Blaszczyk?
10 A. Right now we are in the front of the white house. I marked this
11 location when Mr. Borovcanin with -- with Dutch officer over there and
12 interpreter is standing, and my picture from -- on the page 17 A and C,
13 and in the background we -- on the left-hand side of this picture,
14 picture 1 from the page 17, we see the white house.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: And let's just keep playing a little bit.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We've stopped at 8:34.5.
18 Q. Again, kind of across -- across the road from the white house; is
19 that right? Not the Bratunac-Konjevic Polje road but the small access
20 road.
21 A. Yeah. This is across the small access road, this gravel road,
22 narrow road.
23 Q. And --
24 A. Literally about 10 metres or 15 metres from -- from the gate of
25 the white house.
Page 23570
1 MR. NICHOLLS: And that corresponds to photo C on page 16. If we
2 can keep playing now.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. We stopped at 8:51.2 on the video with the
5 still image of the white house with a lot of bags in front and you can
6 see part of the balcony. It's approximately the same as -- still as
7 photo D on page 16.
8 Just to be clear now can we bring up page 17, please, Mr. Reid,
9 and just the whole page.
10 Q. Okay. Just very simply this helps point out what you were
11 discussing a minute ago. On page 17 of the road book, photos A and C
12 which you've marked, that's the location - excuse me - where
13 Mr. Borovcanin and Mr. Kingori and others were standing talking just
14 across from the white house.
15 A. Yes, this is correct. And on the page -- page 2 -- on page 17,
16 picture 2, we see the photo taken from the position of -- of where
17 Mr. Borovcanin, Kingori, and others are standing in front of the
18 white house. This is Feros building.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. If we could keep playing the video
20 now, please.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. NICHOLLS: We need to go back, Mr. Reid. All right. We're
23 starting at 8:50.7. If we could play now.
24 [Video-clip played]
25 MR. NICHOLLS: And stop at 9:05.
Page 23571
1 Q. Now, during that segment, this is what is depicted as we received
2 the raw video from Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac; is that right?
3 A. Yes, this is correct. This is the segment from -- from the raw
4 material given to us by -- by Mr. Pirocanac.
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Could we go back a little bit, Mr. Reid, to the --
6 keep going. Keep going. Stop. Forwards. Okay.
7 Q. At 8:51.8 we see a big shell casing. Have you seen that shell
8 before in this scene we see here?
9 A. Yes. I saw this shell. This shell was shown to me by
10 Mr. Petrovic in -- in February 2006 when we conducted interview with him.
11 The shell was located at his -- his home, on the balcony of his home. In
12 fact this is shot from his house.
13 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. Now let's play -- I'm going to now play,
14 Your Honours, a bit of video not from the raw footage but from the
15 Studio B documentary, which is P01193.
16 JUDGE KWON: Could you tell me the exhibit number again.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: I had the --
18 JUDGE KWON: P --
19 MR. NICHOLLS: If you give me one minute, Your Honour. This is
20 actually in the trial video. Sorry. I need one moment.
21 [Prosecution counsel and Case Manager confer]
22 JUDGE KWON: Yes. I confirm that the number you have given,
23 i.e., P1193, is that Studio B footage.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: [Microphone not activated] Yes, Your Honour. It's
25 just we're trying to find it in Sanction. I'll play P0666. And if we
Page 23572
1 can go back and just get that ready. That is a split screen. You can
2 stop for one second.
3 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, I think you helped create this video. If you can
6 explain it to us, please, which shows footage of the white house that was
7 obtained from the Studio B documentary on one side and Mr. Petrovic's raw
8 video that he provided to us on the other side. Before we play it, can
9 you just tell us a little bit what we're going to see?
10 A. Yes. Together with my colleague video assistant we tried to
11 create exactly the location on the raw footage where -- where this -- the
12 frames from the Studio B were recorded, and we compared to part of -- one
13 part -- two part of the videos, one from the Studio B and another one
14 from -- from the raw material. We were able to -- to spotted the places
15 where -- where the material from -- when the footage from raw material
16 was over-recorded. And if we play these two footages together, we will
17 see exactly where -- where was -- where and how it was over-recorded, you
18 know, on the raw material.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay.
20 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Now I understood. This P666 was one of the
21 associate exhibits that we admitted into evidence together with
22 Petrovic's 92 bis statement.
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour.
24 JUDGE KWON: Yes, thank you.
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. If we could play that, please,
Page 23573
1 Mr. Reid.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS: And I've just stopped for a moment at 11.1.
4 Q. And we can see -- it's a little bit hard to see, but is that the
5 Studio B logo we see on the left frame, Mr. Blaszczyk?
6 A. Yes, this is correct. This is logo of Studio B television in
7 Belgrade.
8 Q. And the words running below on the left, that's actually
9 advertising from when this documentary was broadcast in Belgrade; is that
10 right?
11 A. That is correct. It is Serbian language, some advertising not
12 connected to this particular video.
13 Q. And on the right-hand side, that's the raw video from
14 Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac that he provided us.
15 A. Yes, on the right-hand side we have the footage from the raw
16 material from Mr. Pirocanac.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: If we can play now, please.
18 [Video-clip played]
19 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Can we have this transcript,
20 please?
21 JUDGE KWON: I see the transcript in hard copy, page -- last
22 four digits 7892 in the transcript, but I don't know where we can find it
23 in e-court.
24 Can you help us, Mr. Nicholls?
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes.
Page 23574
1 JUDGE KWON: What I said is last four digits.
2 It's just simple. It reads as it is written here:
3 "There were some people who tried to smuggle themselves onto a
4 convoy and who are registered criminals."
5 MR. NICHOLLS: It's e-court page 274, please.
6 JUDGE KWON: I don't know whether -- where is the Serbian
7 version. It's -- it should be there.
8 Shall we continue, or shall we begin from the -- from the
9 beginning?
10 MR. NICHOLLS: We could play it one more time, Your Honours.
11 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
12 MR. NICHOLLS: I should say that P01193, which is admitted,
13 unfortunately we had trouble bringing it up, that I intended to play does
14 have the transcript synced with it. So it's available there.
15 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
16 MR. NICHOLLS: Let's play this one more time, this clip, please.
17 [Video-clip played]
18 MR. NICHOLLS:
19 Q. We can stop there. Mr. Blaszczyk, we saw a two-second blank on
20 the one side. That was also as the original as we received it; is that
21 right?
22 A. Yes, it's correct.
23 Q. Now, what was -- did you ask Mr. Petrovic about his explanation
24 for why the scene of the balcony with the men on it now had a -- on the
25 raw material we had a shell casing from his balcony?
Page 23575
1 A. Of course I did ask him. We did ask him during our interview
2 why -- why it happened. He explained situation that he was very
3 unexperienced to operate the camera and coincidentally and not
4 intentionally he over-recorded this material when he returned to home.
5 And he doesn't know exactly. He -- his explanation was that he's not
6 able to tell, you know, how it happened and why it happened.
7 Q. But the scene of the men on the balcony, just to be clear, is
8 completely absent from the raw material he gave us.
9 A. Yes, it's correct. This footage is not -- not -- not on the raw
10 material handed over to us, and if we compare the time-code from the raw
11 material, we see that originally there is missing about 11 seconds of
12 recordings.
13 Q. Thank you. What I'd like to do now is have you show to us and to
14 the Trial Chamber the interactive CD presentation that was created which
15 shows this chapter, Potocari. If we could go through it quickly and let
16 me know if you need a minute to set that up.
17 A. Your Honour, this is presentation we prepared just for better
18 understanding of Petrovic video of location where that video was
19 recorded. I will try to explain how we can operate with this
20 presentation and how we go in. If we -- on the -- on the bottom of this
21 picture we have few -- few buttons over here. We can zoom button here.
22 We can blow-up little bit the picture. Zoom out and go -- this one is
23 go -- is back to the -- the previous page, if we need to use that one.
24 This one which mark the places which is the linkage to another page or
25 photo or photos or image from Petrovic video.
Page 23576
1 If we open this first page, if we go to the first page we see
2 again the map of Bosnia-Herzegovina, and if you like -- would like to go
3 to the area -- the Eastern Bosnia area, to Bratunac/Srebrenica area, we
4 can press this -- this field, and we again we are in the next map.
5 Coming closer, we are in -- in much detail map of area of Srebrenica,
6 Bratunac, Konjevic Polje, but before I go in, I would like to tell that
7 this presentation contains only two segments of Petrovic video, the most
8 significant segments. This is segment of Potocari and segment of
9 Kravica, Sandici, and Pervani area. Right now we passed -- we -- we were
10 through the Petrovic video of chapter 1 of Potocari. Then let's go to
11 Potocari. And we have map -- more detailed map of the area of Potocari.
12 We're marked some -- some arrows here.
13 And again if you'd like to get in to linkage to the photos from
14 my trip to Bosnia or to the image from Petrovic video, we have to go
15 to -- to these fields, but knowing where the fields are can be
16 activated -- we can use this button.
17 Q. If you could maybe just take us through quickly and show us the
18 different places that we've just seen on video, how you can find them in
19 this presentation.
20 A. Yes. Let's go to the first place. We are in the front of the
21 white house now. We can move around. We can see entire area.
22 If we go -- if we mark this -- the field here where the -- if you
23 remember, Your Honours, where Mr. Kingori, Borovcanin, and others were
24 talking in -- near, we see the image from Petrovic video. And also if
25 you would like to zoom in, we can do that. Going back --
Page 23577
1 JUDGE KWON: Could you go back to the first page again, kindly.
2 Cover page.
3 THE WITNESS: Cover page. Of course, Your Honour.
4 JUDGE KWON: Could you tell me again how you turn the page?
5 THE WITNESS: Just pressing the button of the mouse. You know,
6 just -- if you --
7 JUDGE KWON: Oh, yes. Okay. Yes.
8 THE WITNESS: Yes. Your Honour, if you want to know where to
9 press the button, it's perfect if you use this help button here, marking
10 the area when -- when you have linkage to another photos, map, or other
11 Petrovic video.
12 MR. NICHOLLS:
13 Q. But it's correct that in the beginning if you just click anywhere
14 on the cover page, it brings you into the presentation and then into
15 highlighted area.
16 A. Yes. I think it's only the first page. You know, the cover page
17 is linkage to the presentation itself.
18 Let's go back to the area of -- we are again in front of the
19 white house. We saw already Mr. Borovcanin and Mr. Kingori talking in
20 front of the white house. This is the footage from raw material of
21 Mr. Petrovic. We are coming back. We can enter. We can go in here.
22 Also if you like to see which area we need to click to be linked to
23 another picture or photo we can use this button.
24 We are in the front house. You know, this is also image from
25 Petrovic video, it's from his raw material, and the picture taken in
Page 23578
1 2006. If we click on the balcony here, we are getting image from -- from
2 Studio B's -- mark of the Studio B is very visible here on the right-hand
3 side on the top of this picture. We can close-up to the balcony. We see
4 the people sitting on the balcony. One more time, we have the closest
5 view of these people.
6 Q. All right. Thank you.
7 A. We are back to the picture from 2006. And as I said, if we would
8 like to see the view from -- from the Feros building, let's go to the
9 other side of the road using this button. In fact, we see the
10 Feros building from -- from this location. This is the Feros building
11 here.
12 Q. Seen from the white house?
13 A. Yes, exactly. We have the Feros building, the blue -- we call
14 this Blue Factory but belonged to Feros company behind. And DutchBat and
15 road leading towards Bratunac. Here at that time it was the main gate of
16 and check-point of DutchBat.
17 Again we have a linkage here to the photo from Petrovic raw
18 material. We see the Feros building behind, the Feros administration
19 building behind.
20 If we move up, we are in direction to Srebrenica now. If we --
21 yeah. This is -- this is also footage from Petrovic video.
22 Approximately it was taken in this -- this location on the right-hand
23 side of the road leading from Bratunac to Srebrenica. You see the man
24 working on the right, right side of the road.
25 Q. And again, Mr. Blaszczyk, if I could stop you for a minute. If
Page 23579
1 you go back one frame to the overview. You were able to determine, I
2 think you said, the location of these photos by the Feros building on the
3 one side where the people are walking, and if you turn the other -- keep
4 scrolling to the right, the topography of the mountains you can see
5 behind in some of the videos; is that right?
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Thank you. If you could just show us the other links in the
8 Potocari part.
9 A. Uh-huh. This is another side of the road also, road leading --
10 if we look straight we are faced towards Srebrenica and we see people
11 walking on the left-hand side of the road.
12 And we can move closer to the blue -- Blue Building and the
13 check-point containing -- check-point of DutchBat APCs. You should
14 remember, Your Honours, this picture from the book but more wider picture
15 in panorama picture.
16 This building is -- this was built after the war. It didn't
17 exist in July 1995. Behind this new building we see the part of the bus
18 compound here.
19 We see the footage from July 1995 recorded by Mr. Petrovic.
20 Q. And again that -- what you just showed us, if you can scroll
21 back, is the area with that small bridge or drainage ditch and the
22 check-point we saw.
23 A. Yes, it's hard really to see it, but I'm standing probably on
24 this bridge now taking the photo.
25 Q. All right.
Page 23580
1 A. And again, Your Honour, if -- these arrows mark the area or the
2 field, you can link to another photos, but if you would have -- or if
3 anybody would have a problem to find additional linkage fields, you can
4 use this button and this mark here.
5 Let's go back. We are in the map, map of Potocari. Now we are
6 in front of -- in the yard of the Blue Building. We see the
7 Blue Building. This building is located about 100 metres from the
8 white house, and on the same side of the road. The white house is not
9 visible here, but it's visible Feros administration building and the
10 blue -- Blue Factory, Feros company behind is, as I said, about 100,
11 150 metres.
12 I check the linkage here. If you remember, we see the APC, part
13 of the APC and the Dutch soldiers. And behind we also see the DutchBat
14 and part of the Blue Factory.
15 Another linkage, we see here Mr. Beara and Mr. Kingori. They are
16 on the yard of Blue Factory exactly in this location.
17 Q. Can I stop you one second. I think I heard you say that last --
18 could you bring that --
19 A. Yes, I realised. That's not Blue Factory, of course. This is
20 Blue Building.
21 Q. And I think I heard you say Mr. Beara.
22 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
23 MR. NICHOLLS:
24 Q. Could you bring up the photo you just showed us of the men with
25 Mr. Kingori. Yeah. Who is that, with the black patch?
Page 23581
1 A. Did I say Mr. Beara? No, this is Mr. Borovcanin.
2 Mr. Borovcanin, of course.
3 Q. Thank you. Please continue, just show us the rest of the links
4 here.
5 A. We are again in the yard of the Blue Factory -- Blue Building.
6 And behind this Blue Building here we see -- we see power plant,
7 electrical station of -- of -- behind this electrical station is also
8 behind of -- of white house.
9 Let's go to the footage from July 1995, 13 July 1995. We are
10 again in the yard of the Blue Building. We see the tractor with water
11 tank.
12 One more general view of the area. Let's go back to the view. I
13 think we were here already.
14 And we're again in the front of the white house. Across the road
15 we have the Feros building. And this is presentation regarding Potocari
16 and events in Potocari from July 13, 1995.
17 Q. Thank you. And we can --
18 JUDGE KWON: [Microphone not activated]
19 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. We can leave that now. And just to be
20 clear, these -- the photographs used in the presentation you've just
21 shown us are the same ones used in the road book, stitched together,
22 taken at the same time.
23 A. Yes. Yes. This is -- I think each photograph is taken during
24 our mission in -- in May 2000 -- 2000 -- 2006. The photograph in -- of
25 Potocari, yeah, yeah. And also we -- you see the same photos or very
Page 23582
1 similar photos in our road book.
2 Q. So then just to confirm what we saw in this segment of video and
3 in the book was Mr. Pirocanac coming in past the UN DutchBat base,
4 stopping and being out of the car by the Feros building, walking by the
5 check-point --
6 A. Yes.
7 Q. -- being at the Blue Building and then going to the white house.
8 Is that the correct sequence?
9 A. Yes, this is correct sequence. The first footage of
10 Mr. Pirocanac being in Potocari, not driving in Potocari but being in
11 Potocari we have in the front of the white house, in front of the Feros
12 building. He's entering the bus with the people in, and he's walking
13 towards Blue Building, recording some events and some conversation or --
14 in -- in front of -- at the check-point place, then on the yard of the
15 Blue Building, returning again to the white house. Location of the white
16 house.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. If we could go back to playing the video
18 now, please. The raw video. We can start just about where we left off
19 at 9:04.6, and if we can play.
20 [Video-clip played]
21 MR. NICHOLLS: And stop, please.
22 Q. Now, just before we -- that is the end of the Potocari segment we
23 just saw on the 13th of July; is that right?
24 A. Yes, that is correct. This is the end of the Potocari segment.
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Could I now have - we can do this before the
Page 23583
1 break - page 20 of the road book, chapter 2. And go to the next page,
2 please, page 21.
3 Q. This is the next sequence of footage we're coming to that was
4 shot by Mr. Pirocanac at that day. We've got the map here of the
5 locations that you plotted with the GPS from your trip. Just before we
6 begin watching the video, can you tell us what this -- what this area is
7 that -- that appears on video we're about to see, the locations, and just
8 quickly tell us which way the car was travelling and when it turned
9 around.
10 A. This is area of Sandici, Pervani, and Lolici, and Kravica. We
11 see the footage -- the first footage that Mr. -- Mr. Pirocanac together
12 with Mr. Borovcanin, they are in Sandici, in Sandici meadow, and then are
13 driving towards Konjevic Polje. They are following two APCs -- in fact,
14 one APC and one BOV and one Praga, and they are returning to Sandici
15 meadow and they are driving towards Kravica.
16 Q. And can we just -- before we begin playing the video, I think it
17 would be helpful go to the next page of the book, please, page 22. We'll
18 start off near Sandici meadow when we watch the video. It's a little bit
19 of a complicated scene so can you just tell us about this large picture
20 you took which set it out and the locations you've marked.
21 A. Yes. This is overview picture of the area of Sandici meadow. We
22 took this picture from the hill above the Sandici meadow, and I plotted
23 here -- I just connected -- I showed here the location of destroyed
24 white house opposite the road of the Sandici meadow and destroyed house
25 in Sandici meadow itself.
Page 23584
1 On the right -- left-hand side of the picture on the top we have
2 the -- the close-up of the picture of the destroyed white house across
3 the road, and on the right-hand side on -- on the top we have destroyed
4 house in Sandici. These houses -- these two houses would be visible on
5 the Petrovic video. When we play the Petrovic raw material we see these
6 houses and -- in this video. And we have general view of the
7 Sandici meadow. We see the road leading from -- I marked the direction
8 here Konjevic Polje and Kravica-Bratunac, and somebody who never been
9 there can -- can see, you know, which direction we are going to.
10 Q. All right. Thank you.
11 A. On the ...
12 Q. Continue, please. Continue, please, if you had something.
13 A. And opposite like in the previous pages, you know, I didn't --
14 this page didn't follow by the -- in fact, this page on the left-hand
15 side is not the -- not the picture from Petrovic video, but I tried to --
16 to make it as easy as possible to understand the area over there. And on
17 the page 23 we have close-up of -- of destroyed white house. We have
18 Sandici meadow and we have also panorama picture of the road including
19 the destroyed white house.
20 Q. All right. And that's page 23. If we could bring it up for
21 one minute for the public to see what you've just described.
22 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours. I see it's almost the
23 break. I'm going to play some video now but I'd rather just start
24 playing it and play it through rather than play two minutes and stop, if
25 I may.
Page 23585
1 JUDGE KWON: Yes, please.
2 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. But I just wonder if we could take the
3 break now rather than start the video.
4 JUDGE KWON: Yes, we'll do that.
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
6 JUDGE KWON: We'll take a break for half an hour and resume at
7 11.00.
8 --- Recess taken at 10.27 a.m.
9 --- On resuming at 11.00 a.m.
10 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Nicholls.
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours. Now we're going to start
12 with chapter 2 of the book entitled "On the road." It begins at Sandici.
13 I'll just say for the record, in the trial video book, P04202, there are
14 some stills from this beginning at page 98 of the hardcover, page 137 in
15 e-court, which identifies some of the people we're see on the video. I
16 don't propose to stop and identify each person as we go along, but that's
17 where it can be found. The transcript for this section begins in the
18 same exhibit at e-court page 274.
19 Q. Now, to begin with, could we just -- before we start playing,
20 just show page -- the next two pages of the road book, pages 24 and 25,
21 to orient ourselves. That's up on the screen now.
22 And, Mr. Blaszczyk, the still from the video on the left, which
23 is from page 24, shows a man in camouflage uniform standing in front of
24 the small destroyed house, and on the photo at the right, the one taken
25 on your mission, there's a man, I believe it's you, standing in front of
Page 23586
1 the same destroyed house, and an image on right showing where we are. So
2 just to be clear, and correct me if I am wrong, but this image where we
3 begin is now kind of right in the middle of Sandici meadow; is that
4 right?
5 A. Yes, this is correct. This is right in the Sandici meadow.
6 Q. All right. And you've marked that as position 5 on the map for
7 this chapter?
8 A. Yes, correct. If you go back to the map, it's marked as
9 number 5.
10 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. Mr. Reid, if we could now start
11 playing the video.
12 [Video-clip played]
13 MR. NICHOLLS: Can we stop, please. Go back one frame.
14 Q. All right. We've stopped at 10:22.6. I just wanted to stop
15 here, Mr. Blaszczyk, because we've got the date stamp 13 July 1995 on the
16 original raw video. Just to ask you, is that the right date?
17 A. Yeah, this is the right date. 13 July 1995.
18 Q. And we don't need to bring them up now, but you've marked this
19 man who is calling out to his son and the location on pages 26 and 27 of
20 the road book; is that right?
21 A. Yes, it's correct. On the page 26 we have stills from
22 Petrovic video. And on page 27 we have my photos with marked location or
23 spotted location where the man was standing.
24 JUDGE KWON: How do we know he's calling his son, Mr. Nicholls?
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Perhaps I shouldn't have said that. I believe
Page 23587
1 that's from some other evidence, Your Honours. I'll strike that.
2 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
3 MR. NICHOLLS: If we could continue playing, please.
4 [Video-clip played]
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop.
6 Q. All right. Can you just tell us what that part we saw is,
7 Mr. Blaszczyk, with no picture but just a recording of Mr. Petrovic
8 talking about himself?
9 A. This is -- according to Mr. Petrovic, this is his conversation
10 with somebody on the phone, and it was recorded at his -- his apartment
11 or house in Belgrade. It's over-recorded for the original material.
12 Q. All right. So again, he's recorded over a portion there that we
13 don't have.
14 A. Yes, it's correct.
15 Q. Now, if we could keep playing, please. We're at 11:16.6.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop, please. We stopped at 11:50.4, after seeing
18 Mr. Borovcanin speaking with two armed men about swapping pistols. I'll
19 ask Mr. Reid if we can now bring up pages 30 and 31 of the road book.
20 Q. And we saw the camera at the end pan from Mr. Borovcanin and
21 these two men back to Sandici meadow. Can you tell us how you determined
22 where they are? Where is this conversation taking place with
23 Commander Borovcanin?
24 A. If we would play this video again in slow motion, we could see
25 even the part of the destroyed white house which is located across the --
Page 23588
1 the road from Sandici meadow, and watching carefully the move of the
2 camera, I easily could -- could -- could locate the place where
3 Mr. Borovcanin is talking to these two -- two men. One is from the --
4 from the Special Police Brigade, another one from PJP Company.
5 Q. All right. And on page 31 of the map book, you've marked A and
6 B, the location where this conversation took place?
7 A. Yes. This is correct. I can be wrong, but my mistake would be
8 in one matter, two matters, maybe, but no -- no more.
9 Q. All right. I'll -- since you suggested it, I'll ask Mr. Reid to
10 play that clip again. I don't know that we can play it in slow motion,
11 but we'll just play it to show the proximity of Mr. Borovcanin and these
12 men to the prisoners.
13 [Video-clip played]
14 THE WITNESS: It was a little bit early.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: Go back again, Mr. Reid, sorry.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 THE WITNESS: Could you stop here? Yeah. This is --
18 MR. NICHOLLS: If we can go back two frames. Yes.
19 THE WITNESS: You -- just above Mr. Borovcanin's head we see -- I
20 believe this is the part of the wall of white house, destroyed white
21 house. And later on when we -- you follow the move of the camera, you --
22 you could see the road, the main road, and also part of the
23 Sandici meadow. And just taking into consideration all this movement and
24 this feature, I located this spot.
25 MR. NICHOLLS:
Page 23589
1 Q. All right. And we're at 11:34.7, where you say there's a small
2 portion of the white house we can see.
3 MR. NICHOLLS: If we can play, please, again.
4 [Video-clip played]
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop there, please.
6 Q. And we'll just do this quickly. If we could look at page 32 and
7 33 of the road book. Yeah. Here you've marked just the section of
8 Sandici meadow where these men were gathered just before the camera once
9 again went black; is that right?
10 A. Yes. This is correct. This is on page 33. We have the panorama
11 picture of Sandici meadow, and I marked the location where the men were
12 gathered.
13 Q. And the photo on page 33 is approximately taken with the
14 photographer's back to the white house. Is that about right?
15 A. Yes. This is correct. The photos was taken on the side of the
16 road where the destroyed white house is located. Just -- we do the photo
17 from -- it was several photos, just matched together.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. And, Your Honours, on page 32,
19 photo B, there's a typo in the counter code. It should be 11:44.10, not
20 11:54.10. I apologise for that.
21 If we could continue playing the video now.
22 [Video-clip played]
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. We don't need to go back to the still. We
24 can stop. We don't need to go back to the still. This area's on page 34
25 and 35 of the road book, marked as map position 9.
Page 23590
1 Q. Can you just tell us approximately where this is taking place in
2 relation to Sandici meadow and what we saw in this picture of the guns
3 firing into the woods.
4 A. This footage was recorded about 200 -- 2.800 metres from Sandici
5 meadow, on the road leading towards Konjevic Polje, and we see on this --
6 this footage we see one Praga and one BOV, the armed vehicles of
7 Special Police Brigade, Sekovici Detachment.
8 Q. And just quickly, how were you able to determine this location
9 heading towards Konjevic Polje now from Sandici meadow?
10 A. Again, it wasn't difficult. Just looking at the features of the
11 terrain especially of the road and the hills, surrounding hills, we could
12 easily determine the place where the footage was recorded.
13 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We'll keep playing now.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 THE WITNESS: Could you stop here?
16 MR. NICHOLLS:
17 Q. We stopped at 13:23.9.
18 A. And it's not mentioned here in my road book, but it's visible on
19 the video. If you look at the smoke coming out from the forest after the
20 shelling, we see the people moving around. We just see the shape of the
21 men, probably of the men. If you look very carefully on it. But we
22 should play it again. It's not visible now. The quality is not so good
23 now in this version, but if you play, we see that these men is -- or
24 whoever it is just moving.
25 [Video-clip played]
Page 23591
1 MR. NICHOLLS: Can you go back just a tiny bit, Mr. Reid. Yeah.
2 We're at 14:13.1 in the video. That picture approximately is shown on
3 page 36 of the road book in picture B. It's off by a tiny amount. And
4 if we look at page 37 of the road book, if we could, Mr. Reid, picture
5 A1. And we see a house and a sloping hill behind it.
6 Q. Were you able -- just tell us how -- where we are now in this
7 location still and how you were able to tell where we are.
8 A. We see that these two -- two vehicles moved towards
9 Konjevic Polje about 300 metres. It's also Pervani, Pervani area. And,
10 yes, I spotted the houses, which is also recorded by Mr. Pirocanac here.
11 If you look at my picture from the page 37, it is -- maybe it doesn't
12 look the same, but is -- is the same house re-builded after the war, and
13 looking also at the features of the terrain, as I said, at the hills and
14 the road and the location of the houses and their relation to the other
15 houses, we could easily spot the place where the -- the footage was
16 recorded.
17 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Blaszczyk, did you say page 57 or it's 37?
18 THE WITNESS: Thirty-seven. Sorry, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE KWON: I'm sorry?
20 THE WITNESS: Thirty seven, Your Honour, 3-7.
21 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honour.
22 Q. Picture A on page 37. Correct, Mr. Blaszczyk?
23 A. Yes, it's correct. This is picture A on the page 37. We have
24 the same -- the same house depicted on the still from Petrovic video on
25 the page 36 as marked here as -- as still A.
Page 23592
1 Q. So what we're seeing is Mr. Petrovic and Mr. Borovcanin have left
2 Sandici meadow, heading along the road towards Konjevic Polje, stopping
3 occasionally and filming this firing into the woods.
4 A. It is quite correct. Just we see that Mr. Borovcanin and
5 Mr. Pirocanac, they are following these two APCs along the road. In
6 Pervani. This place is located, according to our measurement, about 3 --
7 3.000 metres from Sandici meadow.
8 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. If we could continue playing the
9 video, please.
10 JUDGE KWON: Just a second.
11 Mr. Blaszczyk, did you say Mr. -- Mr. Pirocanac was following
12 these two APCs along the road?
13 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honour, because we -- we hear the voice
14 even coming from -- in fact, we know that it's coming from the car of
15 Mr. Borovcanin and -- and Mr. Pirocanac, and we know also from other
16 witnesses, including Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac, that they -- they follow
17 these two APCs at the beginning.
18 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honour. If we could play now,
20 please.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We've stopped now at 16:39.2. This is
23 a shot -- a still from video which was clearly filmed from inside of the
24 car, from the front passenger side, while the car was being driven.
25 If we could look, Mr. Reid, at pages 38 and 39 of the road book.
Page 23593
1 For now just page 39.
2 Q. On page 38 we've got the stills A and B which correspond to where
3 we stopped the video. This is map position 11 you've marked on your map
4 on page 21 of the road book. And I can see from the way you've marked
5 the road directions in -- on pages 38 and 39 that the car now appears to
6 be heading back towards Sandici and Bratunac. In other words, the
7 opposite direction of the video we saw up to this point. Is that -- it's
8 a long summary. Is that -- is that correct? Which direction now are
9 Mr. Petrovic and Mr. Borovcanin travelling?
10 A. Yes. You are right. The car is now heading towards
11 Sandici meadow again. This is the first footage which we see that the
12 car made a U-turn and heading towards Sandici meadow.
13 Q. And were you able to determine the precise location of the U-turn
14 from watching the video or not?
15 A. No. I wasn't able to do it, because I -- as you see here, the
16 images on this page 38, the stills from Petrovic video, these two houses
17 are located about 1.000 metres, you know, just from the previous location
18 when we saw the Praga and BOV shooting towards the hills, but as far as I
19 remember from interview of Mr. Petrovic, they drove towards
20 Konjevic Polje. They made a U-turn, I think, in Konjevic Polje, but I
21 was not able to determine the place where they made this U-turn on this
22 video.
23 Q. All right. Thank you. And so just to be clear for the map book,
24 from Sandici meadow up to map position 10, which we saw on the previous
25 pages, the direction of travel is towards Konjevic Polje. At some point
Page 23594
1 there's a U-turn, and from map position 11 as we continue now it's back
2 towards Sandici meadow. They've made a -- they're returning to where we
3 started.
4 A. Yes. This is -- this is correct. From -- from -- from 11 on the
5 map this is direction towards Sandici and Kravica, in fact.
6 Q. And very simply, we see some houses on page 38 and 39. Did that
7 assist you in locating where we see this conversation taking place in the
8 car as you've marked it on the map book.
9 A. Yes, this house, especially this one help me to locate -- spotted
10 this location, and this is the house marked here as house B here. This
11 is the house -- I believe this is that one from the -- from the picture,
12 from the still from Petrovic video. And at the beginning I wasn't so
13 sure, you know, just whether this is the proper house or not, but I
14 talked to the owner of this house and renovated house next to this
15 destroyed house, and I showed him the footage, the stills from the
16 Petrovic video and he confirmed that these two houses belonged to his
17 family.
18 Q. All right. Thank you.
19 A. And, of course, the features of the -- the terrain and the road.
20 Which is another confirmation.
21 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. And now if we'll continue playing now
22 the footage as we return to Sandici meadow direction.
23 [Video-clip played]
24 MR. NICHOLLS:
25 Q. Sorry, just a quick question. We see Mr. Borovcanin speaking
Page 23595
1 here about stopping the traffic, and we saw a reference to Bor. Whose's
2 nickname is Bor, if you know?
3 A. Yes, Mr. Borovcanin, Ljubisa Borovcanin, he used the nickname
4 Bor. Or the other people used to call him as Bor on the radio.
5 MR. NICHOLLS: You can play, please.
6 THE WITNESS: And --
7 MR. NICHOLLS:
8 Q. Yes? Continue.
9 A. And I think we have confirmation because when we saw the previous
10 footage, they went to these two brothers who were dealing with the
11 pistol, showing the pistol to Mr. Borovcanin, one of them called him also
12 Bor, if I could remember.
13 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes. If we could play, please.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 MR. NICHOLLS: This one is very hard to capture. We stopped at
16 17:06.3. On page 40 of your book, we see the still at photo A, and if we
17 were to continue for just a few seconds, in position A we see a man with
18 a rifle and another man. We can see actually where we stopped at
19 17:06.3, further down, two soldiers. Again this is map position 12 on
20 pages 40 and 41. We'll keep playing, but how were you able to determine
21 this location?
22 A. This is again, like in the previous cases, just looking at the --
23 at the features of the terrain. But looking at this retaining wall, in
24 this area near Sandici meadow there are two retaining walls from Sandici
25 meadow towards the direction of Konjevic Polje. This is one of these --
Page 23596
1 these retaining walls. Later on we should see another one.
2 Q. And how far now is Mr. Petrovic and Borovcanin from Sandici
3 meadow?
4 A. We are about 900 metres from Sandici meadow. Mr. Borovcanin
5 heading from Konjevic Polje direction towards Bratunac and, of course,
6 Sandici meadow.
7 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. Keep playing, please.
8 [Video-clip played]
9 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We stopped at 17:48.7.
10 Q. This still we've stopped at, the frame corresponds to page 42 of
11 your road book, photo C, again filming from the car. We can see a
12 soldier crouching just over the mirror, the rear-view mirror of the car.
13 These are positions on your map, 13, 14, 15. The other soldiers I didn't
14 stop at. How far are we now from -- or we're getting closer to Sandici
15 meadow; correct?
16 A. Yes, this is correct. We are getting closer to Sandici meadow.
17 We about 400 matters from Sandici meadow.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: I ask Mr. Reid to bring up page 43 of the road
19 book. And if we can perhaps make that larger, the road book page.
20 That's good. And I think in hard copy it's easy to see.
21 Q. You've marked -- just so we can see, does this show us where
22 these soldiers are lined up along the road, the same road where we saw
23 firing into the hills coming from earlier in relation to Sandici meadow,
24 the destroyed white house, and you've also marked in the small inset
25 photo the Kravica warehouse. Can you confirm that and tell us just a
Page 23597
1 little bit about how far these distances are from here to the Kravica
2 warehouse?
3 A. Yes, I can confirm it. It's not visible here on this picture, of
4 course, it's too small one, but if we zoom -- zoom in this picture, you
5 know, we can -- we could see also Kravica warehouse. It's very visible
6 from Sandici meadow. It's -- the location of Kravica warehouse in
7 relation to the Sandici meadow, the distance is about 900 metres,
8 1 kilometre at the most. 900 metres, I would say.
9 Q. And there's one -- on page 43, one area marked with a white X.
10 It's not a -- can you just tell us what that location indicates.
11 A. In such way I marked the position or the location when -- where
12 the Bosnia Federal Commission for Missing Persons made exhumation of
13 70 bodies. It was June 2004. The bodies were dumped behind this
14 barrier. There is a small stream going along this road.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. Let's continue playing. From 17:48.7
16 we'll continue playing.
17 [Video-clip played]
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing.
19 [Video-clip played]
20 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We've stopped at 18:06.08.
21 Q. This is shown on photo B of page 46 of the map book, and you've
22 marked it as position 17, 17A. On page 47 of the map book, A and B,
23 you've marked where this man calling for people to come out of the woods
24 is. If you just tell us now how -- how close is this to -- well, we
25 could -- how close is this to Sandici meadow? We can see on the photo on
Page 23598
1 page 47 the approximate location.
2 A. This place is visible from Sandici meadow itself and is located
3 about 200 metres from Sandici meadow. On page 47 I tried to -- to make
4 it clear as much as possible, you know, just to -- to point out this --
5 this particular location and relation to Sandici meadow.
6 Q. All right. So this just shows us the location of where some of
7 the soldiers are arranged along the road by Sandici meadow where they're
8 calling out to the prisoners to surrender.
9 A. Yes, exactly. They are members of Special Police Brigade,
10 Jahorina Unit.
11 Q. And just if I can look at the bottom photo, photo 2 on page 47.
12 That's that big panoramic photo. The way the road is so curved there, is
13 that accurate or is that distorted a bit from putting the pictures
14 together?
15 A. This picture, in fact, is a little bit distorted, and we tried to
16 merge this picture, you know, as much as possible to reflect the real
17 situation, but it's a little bit distorted, you know. The road is more
18 straight. If you are planning to visit this area it would be very
19 visible.
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing now, please.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 THE WITNESS: Could you stop here?
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Stopped at 19:31.8.
24 Q. You asked us to stop, Mr. Blaszczyk.
25 A. Yes, Your Honour, if you pay attention to the hill, you will see
Page 23599
1 the people moving.
2 Q. Which people?
3 A. I mean Muslim population.
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Can we back up just a bit, Mr. Reid, and we'll
5 play again. Okay.
6 [Video-clip played]
7 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. I stopped us at 20:13.1 on the video.
8 The photo there, it's a little bit blurry on the frame we're on, but it
9 corresponds to photo C on page 48 of the map book.
10 Q. You've marked this as position map 18. Again, now about
11 150 metres from Sandici meadow; is that right?
12 A. Yes, this is correct. In the vicinity of Sandici meadow.
13 Q. And they've stop the car and are walking around, obviously. And
14 just again, it's a bit blurry on the frame, but is this Mr. Borovcanin we
15 see on the screen on the far left?
16 A. Yes, this is correct. On the left-hand side I see Mr. Borovcanin
17 here. And these two men on the right-hand side, they're members of
18 1st Company of PJP, CJB Zvornik.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. And I won't bring it up to save time,
20 but I'll just say on page 49 of the road book, with these photos we can
21 see that this is just up the curve of the road, nearly now back to
22 Sandici meadow and the white house where we started this -- seeing this
23 section of the film by Mr. Petrovic.
24 We can keep playing now.
25 [Video-clip played]
Page 23600
1 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We're at 21:03:7. That corresponds
2 nearly identically to photo B on page 50 of the map book, now a hundred
3 metres or just a little bit closer to Sandici meadow.
4 Q. Do you know who these men are?
5 A. Yes. These two men, they are members of Jahorina Company of the
6 Special Police Brigade.
7 Q. Okay. And we saw them pointing their rifles down, downwards, and
8 Mr. Petrovic filmed just down towards the ground through some trees and
9 we heard some running water. What's down there, and why are they -- what
10 is in that direction from this part of the road?
11 A. Mr. Petrovic filming here little bit stream and they're waiting
12 for -- expecting some Muslims coming down from -- from the hills through
13 these bushes towards the -- the road how they were called by -- by the
14 Serbs.
15 Q. All right. Thank you. And I won't bring it up to save time, but
16 you've marked this clearly on page 51 of the road book.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: Let's keep playing, please.
18 [Video-clip played]
19 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We've stopped now at 21:12.9 in the
20 video. This corresponds to photo B on page 52 of the road book. The
21 location's marked as now about 50 metres from Sandici meadow, getting
22 closer.
23 Q. You've marked it on page 53 as well. I just wanted to stop here.
24 Is that Mr. Borovcanin we see talking to the soldier wearing the blue
25 helmet?
Page 23601
1 A. Yeah, this is correct. This is Mr. Ljubisa Borovcanin talking to
2 this soldier with the blue helmet, but we see that this is member of
3 Special Police Brigade. If you look at the left arm is visible -- I
4 believe this is visible badge of Special Police Brigade. We saw this
5 similar badge on the arm of one of the brothers with the gun.
6 Q. And which force would these blue helmets belong to?
7 A. The blue helmet itself, not to the Serb forces but definitely
8 this is not Serbian equipment. It belonged, I believe, to UNPROFOR. And
9 we see also the man next to the car, just looking by the white car. This
10 is the car used by Mr. Borovcanin, Mr. Pirocanac Petrovic, and the man
11 just getting in the car or getting something from the car, he's his
12 driver Nedjo Jovicic, I believe.
13 Q. All right. Thank you. And again what you've just described we
14 can see on page 52 of the road book. It's the same in e-court, page 52.
15 Photograph B.
16 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing.
17 [Video-clip played]
18 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. We're at 21:56.8 of the video. It's
19 an almost perfect match with photo C on page 54. Just before this man
20 with the back-pack and the dark jacket, we saw a man in a white shirt and
21 two men, one of them helping the other, walking up this path uphill
22 towards where this man is.
23 Q. Could we go to page 55, please, of the road book where you have
24 marked out the path or route taken by these Muslim men as they come out
25 of the woods up towards Sandici meadow. Can you just tell us how you
Page 23602
1 figured it out.
2 A. Yes. This is correct. I tried to -- I tried to establish the
3 pattern of how the people were coming out from the woods and from the
4 hills to -- to Sandici meadow, and also looking at the features of the
5 terrain, looking at the white house, destroyed white house behind the
6 road and checking out the features of this house, and checking how the
7 people were getting the road, it's visible that this is this location,
8 exactly this location.
9 Q. All right.
10 A. If we play later on we see more details of the destroyed white
11 house including the pillars. And entire white house, I believe.
12 Q. Okay. And if we look at where we stopped, the men rounding a
13 corner, which is photo C on page 54, you've marked that -- it's hard to
14 see on the screen we've got. On page 55, as he's just at the corner of
15 the white house; is that right?
16 A. Yes, this is correct. It is on the bottom -- on the page 55, the
17 picture number 3, I've marked as his position C here and also on the
18 first picture from the same page 55, and C, where the man is passing by
19 the corner of this building.
20 Q. All right. And just to be clear, if I can go back one second,
21 the hills we see behind the white house on the right side of the road if
22 you're heading towards Kravica/Bratunac, that's the same side of the road
23 or is it a different side of the road that we saw the Pragas and the
24 firing going on into the woods?
25 A. This is the same side of the road.
Page 23603
1 MR. NICHOLLS: Let's keep playing, please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS: Sorry, can we back up a bit to -- I should have
4 told you, Mr. Reid. Thank you.
5 Q. We're at 23:05.9, approximately the same as photo F on page 56 of
6 your book. You talked about the white columns. These men who were
7 coming up, walking up the hill and rounding this white pillar, can you
8 tell us where this is and how you were able to determine it.
9 A. Yes. These -- these pillars, this is the western part of the
10 destroyed white house. I reconstructed the path of these men, how they
11 were walking, and we see this on page 57, and the pillars are the same.
12 I think they're more visible on the page before even.
13 Q. Thank you.
14 MR. NICHOLLS: And could we bring up page 56, please, Mr. Reid.
15 And just make that larger. We'll leave it as it is.
16 Your Honour, could we go into private session for one moment?
17 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
18 [Private session]
19 (redacted)
20 (redacted)
21 (redacted)
22 (redacted)
23 (redacted)
24 (redacted)
25 (redacted)
Page 23604
1 (redacted)
2 (redacted)
3 (redacted)
4 (redacted)
5 (redacted)
6 (redacted)
7 (redacted)
8 (redacted)
9 (redacted)
10 (redacted)
11 [Open session]
12 JUDGE KWON: Yes. We are now in open session.
13 MR. NICHOLLS: Let's keep playing, please.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 MR. NICHOLLS: And stop. I need to go back to it. We just saw a
16 one-second photo from Mr. Karadzic on TV.
17 Q. Do you know why that's there -- was there?
18 A. Yes. As Mr. Petrovic explained during his interview, he says
19 that it was over-recorded or even it's possible that he used the old tape
20 and this very short footage of Mr. Karadzic is -- is just from another
21 event, another interview, whatever, just that he says that
22 [indiscernible] this is not the part of -- of this trip.
23 Q. He said that was -- inadvertently that he has that piece on
24 there?
25 A. Yes, correct.
Page 23605
1 MR. NICHOLLS: Play, please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. We stopped at 23:50.4. Corresponds a
4 little bit zoomed in to page 58 of the road book, photo C.
5 Q. The point I wanted to see if you can make clear here,
6 Mr. Blaszczyk, is the man we saw in the black leather jacket who walked
7 up out of the woods, asked for some water and crossed the road. He's
8 coming, we saw, around the corner from the white house. Where is he
9 going now across road?
10 A. He's crossing the road and going to Sandici meadow.
11 Q. All right.
12 A. And on page 59 I just reconstructed the path he used.
13 Q. Thank you. And so just to be clear, behind this group we see
14 here picking up a man who is either injured or dead or something, picking
15 somebody up, is that the slope which leads up to Sandici meadow?
16 A. Yes, correct. And I believe we see these people taking this man
17 also in the previous footage.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. We can keep playing, please.
19 [Video-clip played]
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. Can we stop? We're at 24:20.3. We'll keep
21 playing, but we see "French Army NATO approved" box and we'll play in a
22 minute. Just on the transcript we see the portion we just finished. I
23 won't go back to it, but what we heard coming through on the tape was an
24 unknown man saying, "Laser 2 is calling you." Do you remember -- do you
25 know who Laser 2's call-sign was, who that belonged to?
Page 23606
1 A. I don't remember right now whose -- whose code-name it was. I
2 think it was Borovcanin's code game, but I'm -- I believe this is
3 Borovcanin. I believe this is Borovcanin code-name.
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please.
5 [Video-clip played]
6 MR. NICHOLLS:
7 Q. Now, the video we just saw of the food rations box, do you have
8 any -- do you know why that is suddenly there on the video? It has
9 nothing to do with Sandici meadow.
10 A. Yeah, this part of the video has nothing to do with Sandici
11 meadow. This part was recorded over after that. According to the
12 explanation of Mr. Pirocanac, it wasn't intentionally, but anyway, it was
13 over-recorded. We later on just sure that this part of the video should
14 also contain the footage we saw in Studio B, the footage of Kravica
15 warehouse and bodies in the front of Kravica warehouse.
16 And this ration portion, the French ration portion, it's also
17 visible that it was recorded over at -- it was recorded at the house of
18 Mr. Pirocanac, because I recognise the typing machine, I think, I believe
19 I saw at his house.
20 Q. Thank you. Do you know of any explanation from him about why -
21 just while we're here - about why that box appears?
22 A. It was coincidence. According to Mr. Petrovic, of course.
23 Q. All right.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: What I'd like to do now is play a portion of the
25 Studio B video. This is not from the raw footage. This is from the
Page 23607
1 documentary Studio B. It's on our trial video at P4 --- P4201. For our
2 record, this is part 3 of the trial video. It should be at 36 to 37:05.
3 If we could play that, this Studio B section, Mr. Reid.
4 [Video-clip played]
5 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. And we'll now play that again just in slow
6 motion because it is such a quick little clip. If you could play that,
7 Mr. Reid.
8 [Video-clip played]
9 MR. NICHOLLS: I'll stop that at 36:36.3.
10 Q. As you said, Mr. Blaszczyk, you'd already said this is not on the
11 raw video footage shot by Mr. Pirocanac that he provided to us. This is
12 on the Studio B broadcast. Do you know where this location is? Do you
13 have any doubt about where this location is that we see in front of us,
14 the bodies in front of this building?
15 A. I am sure that we are in front of Kravica warehouse and we see
16 the bodies in front of the Kravica warehouse. We see the western door of
17 the first Kravica warehouse.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Let's keep playing, please.
19 [Video-clip played]
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop, please. Stopped at 36:48.8. Now if we can
21 look at pages 60 and 61 of the road book. I don't know, Mr. Reid, if you
22 can also bring up -- can you bring up page 60 on the left? Is that
23 possible? If we leave the video.
24 Q. All right. So on the left we have page 60 of the road book with
25 the two stills from Studio B. You've marked this as map position 20 in
Page 23608
1 Kravica. And on the right we have the photos taken on your visit there,
2 on page 61, and you've marked the directions of the road, Bratunac and -
3 excuse me - Sandici, Konjevic Polje. Can you just tell us how these
4 photos match up?
5 A. I take it it's my photos or our photos from the road leading from
6 Bratunac towards Sandici-Konjevic Polje. I took the picture of the
7 western door of Kravica warehouse. If you look at the, let's say,
8 pillars -- no, just maybe not pillars, but the strips along the door, we
9 see that they're the same strips.
10 Q. Sorry, you mean the vertical concrete strips?
11 A. Yes, yes, correct. Correct. If we look at the general picture
12 of the Kravica warehouse and we compare with the footage from Studio B,
13 it's visible that this is the same house. I believe the next witness,
14 also an investigator, will explain more about the investigation related
15 to this Kravica warehouse.
16 Q. All right. Thank you. That, I think, about --
17 JUDGE KWON: Could I see the slow-motion video again?
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE KWON: And I wonder whether you also have a split
20 comparison video for this part?
21 MR. NICHOLLS: We do not have a split video, Your Honour.
22 THE WITNESS: May --
23 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Blaszczyk.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: But I will --
25 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Please go on. I'm asking.
Page 23609
1 THE WITNESS: It's very difficult to make this comparison part
2 like we did with the white house. I will explain why. Because --
3 because in the raw footage, raw material, this is about 24 seconds
4 recorded over, but, in fact, the footage of Studio B we have only few
5 seconds, one or two seconds of Kravica warehouse and the bodies in front
6 of it, but we couldn't locate exactly in which part. Definitely it was
7 the part, these 24 seconds, recorded over in the raw footage where we see
8 the ration package and the blank portion.
9 JUDGE KWON: The scene with people moving around, with music,
10 it's already in the raw clipping, raw tape, and they are not ones that
11 were -- the ones that have been recorded over.
12 THE WITNESS: It's correct, Your Honour. This is the -- the
13 clips where people are moving around, you know, on the horses, there are
14 clips but recorded day after, it means on the 14th, and we have this
15 material on -- on -- on raw -- on the raw material received from
16 Mr. Pirocanac. We -- I believe if we played the raw material, we see the
17 same clips later on.
18 JUDGE KWON: Very well. Shall we --
19 THE WITNESS: But --
20 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
21 THE WITNESS: -- the Studio B material is, of course, edited
22 material. This was not possible to ...
23 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Yes, Mr. Nicholls.
24 MR. NICHOLLS:
25 Q. And just to be clear, on the -- on the Studio B which is edited
Page 23610
1 material, this Kravica warehouse clip appears -- I think you were saying
2 it appears to be on the 14th of July, the next day of video shooting, not
3 on the 13th when the -- when these killings took place.
4 A. Could you repeat your question, please?
5 Q. Yes.
6 A. I'm a bit confused.
7 Q. Yes. It was a bad question. If one looks at the Studio B
8 footage which has been edited, the brief clip that's there of the Kravica
9 warehouse is mixed in with video -- other video that was shot on the
10 14th of July --
11 A. Yes.
12 Q. -- is that right?
13 A. Yes. This is correct. Before -- before Kravica clip we have the
14 footage from the 14th July, and after -- just after we have the footage
15 also from the 14th July.
16 Q. Thank you. What I'd like you to do now is --
17 JUDGE KWON: Could we play the slow video part again.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Sorry, yes. Let's play that again, please,
19 Mr. Reid. It's easier, I think, to play the whole clip than to find just
20 the slow, the rapid first. It won't take long.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Mr. Blaszczyk, was this part filmed from
23 inside the car, in your opinion?
24 THE WITNESS: Yes. Yes, Your Honour. In my opinion it was -- it
25 was done from inside the car.
Page 23611
1 JUDGE KWON: And the car was moving from which to which
2 direction?
3 THE WITNESS: The car was moving from Sandici towards
4 Kravica/Bratunac.
5 JUDGE KWON: Although from Konjevic Polje to Bratunac.
6 THE WITNESS: Yes, is correct. Just with the last footage we saw
7 the raw material is recorded on Sandici meadow and the car is moving from
8 direction of Sandici-Konjevic Polje towards Bratunac, and Kravica is
9 located about 900 metres from Sandici towards Bratunac. And definitely
10 it has been recorded from the car.
11 JUDGE KWON: Can I see once again, if you don't mind.
12 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour, of course.
13 [Video-clip played]
14 JUDGE KWON: Thank you, Mr. Nicholls.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: Your Honours, I'll ask my -- I'll ask the Defence
16 this, we have a -- which may be helpful. We have a composite photo put
17 together of the Kravica warehouse, the front of it, from the pan of the
18 Studio B footage. In other words, we've taken the stills from the
19 Studio B footage and pasted them together so you can see it all in one
20 panoramic photo. It's not listed for use with Mr. Blaszczyk. I don't
21 believe it has a 65 ter number, but I could bring that up. I think it
22 might be helpful if there's no objection.
23 MR. ROBINSON: We don't object, Mr. President.
24 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Yes, we grant it.
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours. Thank you, Mr. Robinson.
Page 23612
1 This is a photo with ERN number 07041106 and this was created by
2 the OTP from the Petrovic/Studio B stills, and you can see that's why it
3 has several Studio B logos on it. But that shows you what you see in the
4 clip if you were able to see it not in a pan but in one photo, from the
5 man in military uniform, police uniform on the far right, you can't quite
6 see his face, to the back of the bus. This is what was shot from the
7 moving car.
8 And if I could tender that, Your Honour, if there's no objection.
9 It would be --
10 JUDGE KWON: We didn't hear the confirmation from the witness.
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Oh, I'm sorry. I shouldn't be testifying.
12 Q. Can you tell us what this is, Mr. Blaszczyk?
13 A. Yes, this is a picture created by -- by us. This is compilation
14 of the footage -- the stills from the Studio B segment.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. That will be admitted.
17 THE REGISTRAR: As Exhibit P4269, Your Honours.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: And for the record, the 65 ter number for this
19 would be 23585.
20 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, before the break if you could now, and I think
21 this is also helpful for the location of the warehouse and the
22 surroundings, if we could go to the interactive CD as we call it, and if
23 you could start off with Kravica and then show some of the other places
24 we've seen in this clip, in this chapter of your book.
25 MR. NICHOLLS: I think we may need to switch the feed, whatever
Page 23613
1 that means, to allow him to use the laptop.
2 THE WITNESS: I have problem. Okay. Okay. Your Honour, we are
3 again in detailed map of the area of Bratunac and Srebrenica and
4 Konjevic Polje. We are going to the segment related to Sandici portion
5 of this -- our raw material and Studio B material.
6 We are in more detailed map here. I marked here the several
7 locations we can get in, and I marked also Kravica warehouse. As I said,
8 if you would like to know which -- which part is linked to other photos
9 and other stills you can always use the "Help" button. This is entire
10 road where the action took place, in fact, in July 1995. Now we are
11 going to Kravica warehouse. You did ask me about Kravica warehouse, yes?
12 MR. NICHOLLS:
13 Q. Because we were just on Kravica warehouse, yeah, let's please
14 start there and then we can look at some of the -- go along the road from
15 Sandici where the film started. But let's begin at Kravica warehouse.
16 A. Okay. We are in Kravica. That's getting in Kravica area. We
17 have 360-degree view of Kravica warehouse.
18 Q. Could you spin all the way around, please, so we can see how
19 close the road is?
20 A. Yes. This is road leading us to -- okay. From the right-hand
21 side to the left this is -- to the left this is Sandici meadow. On the
22 right-hand side this is direction of Bratunac. This is the main road
23 from where this footage from Studio B had been recorded.
24 We are -- we are in the front of the western door of -- western
25 part of the Kravica warehouse. We can get -- let's check first because
Page 23614
1 it's not marked here, my mistake, but I should mark it. The activated
2 field. It can be helpful. Not always. I put these -- unfortunately I
3 put these yellow arrows. If we click on the door of the warehouse we see
4 the picture from Studio B, the still from Studio B. The same location.
5 Q. The west door.
6 A. Yes, yes. This is west door. Western part of the Kravica
7 warehouse, exactly this.
8 Before we go -- get in, also in this location we see in the
9 footage from 1995, July 1995, 13 July 1995, we have the footage of the
10 bus and the men walking along the bus.
11 If we would like to go inside the Kravica warehouse to the west
12 part of the Kravica warehouse, you have to click here and we are inside.
13 We can move around.
14 This is how it looked in 2006 in -- during our mission in
15 May 2006.
16 Q. Was there a shed or kind of small building in this area in
17 July 1995?
18 A. One second. If you go closer it would be more visible, you know,
19 because we are closer to the eastern part of this -- this part of
20 premises.
21 Your Honour, here we see the marks of small - how to say? -
22 guarding house inside the -- this, this warehouse. One of the witness, I
23 believe, is going to describe how he was hidden during the execution.
24 And it does not exist anymore, you know, this guarding house, but we
25 still see the marks of this guarding house. Very small one used by the
Page 23615
1 guards who were by the counter.
2 Q. And just so we get an idea of the scale, have you measured the
3 inside of this portion of the warehouse?
4 A. Yes, I did. I did it by myself and also it was done in 1996 by
5 our forensic team, I believe. This part, as far as I remember, is about
6 260 metres -- square metres, and another part, the eastern part of the
7 Kravica warehouse had about -- has still about 300 square metres.
8 We can go back to outside or going to the previous spot where we
9 entered the Kravica in front of entrance. Then you can go out. We can
10 check the view of the Kravica warehouse from different perspective, I
11 mean, rather, from the eastern part.
12 Here is the eastern part of the Kravica warehouse where the other
13 people were kept also, the other group of the prisoners were kept.
14 Further down. We are on the edge of the Kravica warehouse. We
15 see entire -- not entire, but most of the compound of Kravica.
16 Q. And just so we could see, if you pan back, the entrance would be
17 behind this building from the main road; correct?
18 A. Yes. You are facing towards direction of Sandici. We are
19 walking down. We are closer again. Sandici's not very visible here, but
20 white destroyed house opposite the road it could be visible if we would
21 have a better picture or better resolution of this picture. Somewhere
22 here.
23 Q. Thank you. And then if Their Honours have no questions, maybe
24 now we could, just before the break, go to Sandici meadow and you can
25 show us how the 360-CD works there.
Page 23616
1 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
2 THE WITNESS: We are again at the map. Would you like me to
3 start with Sandici meadow or with --
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. You could perhaps start with Sandici meadow and just quickly go
6 through the sequence of the spots that are marked in the order we saw
7 them in the video. In other words, heading towards Konjevic Polje and
8 then coming back.
9 A. Let's have the general view of Sandici meadow and surrounding
10 areas.
11 Your Honour, we are on the hill above Sandici meadow. We see
12 Sandici meadow in front of us. We see the white -- white destroyed house
13 across -- located across the road from Sandici meadow. And I would like
14 to show now the same location but also from the hill but from another
15 hill, from the direction of Konjevic Polje. Just a second ago we were
16 here. Let's go back again to the other hill and to have the overview of
17 Sandici meadow surroundings.
18 Then we can go to Sandici meadow. This is Sandici meadow. This
19 is footage, of course, from raw material of Mr. Petrovic.
20 General view again. We are on the west part of the destroyed
21 white house across the road from Sandici meadow. We can follow the path
22 used by the people who are surrendering to the Bosnian Serbs army.
23 JUDGE KWON: So, Mr. Blaszczyk, Mr. Pirocanac filmed at Sandici
24 meadow twice, on the way to the direction of Konjevic Polje and on his
25 way back to the direction of Bratunac.
Page 23617
1 THE WITNESS: It's correct, Your Honour. It's correct. It's
2 correct. Would you like me to follow the sequences of --
3 JUDGE KWON: Oh, yes, please. Yes.
4 THE WITNESS: Let's come back here. I think the first footages
5 we have that one. May I use the help of the book if you don't mind,
6 Your Honour.
7 MR. NICHOLLS:
8 Q. And that's right, Mr. Blaszczyk. This is really the first frame
9 of this portion of the Petrovic video. It shows --
10 A. Yes, this is exactly -- [Overlapping speakers]
11 Q. -- this man.
12 A. I'm sorry. This is Sandici meadow. Here we have entire still
13 from raw material of Mr. Petrovic. We see here member of Special Police
14 Brigade, Sekovici Detachment. How this place looks now, how it looked in
15 2006.
16 JUDGE KWON: Do these people, Mr. Blaszczyk, appear in the second
17 clip taken at the Sandici meadow?
18 THE WITNESS: You're referring to which -- sorry.
19 JUDGE KWON: It's people appearing on page 32 in the book.
20 THE WITNESS: Yes, yes, Your Honour.
21 JUDGE KWON: That's the first shot filmed at Sandici meadow.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, yes, yes. It's correct.
23 JUDGE KWON: Do they appear in the second clip at Sandici meadow?
24 THE WITNESS: On the second portion of Sandici meadow?
25 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
Page 23618
1 THE WITNESS: I think -- I have to check.
2 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
3 THE WITNESS: But, yes, I think we have the -- yeah. At least we
4 have the portion of this. It was captured, you know, the part of this
5 group kept in Sandici meadow.
6 JUDGE KWON: So they are still there.
7 THE WITNESS: Yes. They are still there.
8 JUDGE KWON: I note the time. Shall we take a break, or if you
9 could show me that portion after the break.
10 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honour, I will.
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. We can --
12 JUDGE KWON: Shall I allow the witness to communicate with
13 Mr. Nicholls to show us that -- that clip?
14 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President. We don't mind.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
16 THE WITNESS: Your Honour, maybe this is not exactly the same
17 clip, but the same area the people are visible in the meadow.
18 JUDGE KWON: I would like to see that portion after the break.
19 We'll break for an hour and resume at 1.30.
20 --- Luncheon recess taken at 12.30 p.m.
21 --- On resuming at 1.31 a.m.
22 JUDGE KWON: Yes, Mr. Robinson.
23 MR. ROBINSON: Yes, Mr. President. I would like to make an oral
24 motion to strike a pleading that was filed today. If I could have a few
25 minutes at the close of the day today to be heard on that.
Page 23619
1 JUDGE KWON: Are you referring to the Prosecution's response to
2 your supplemental submission?
3 MR. ROBINSON: Yes.
4 JUDGE KWON: I think our staff forgot to copy the e-mail to the
5 Prosecution, but it was triggered by the Chamber's invitation. The
6 Chamber wanted to hear from the Prosecution.
7 MR. ROBINSON: I see. Okay. If we could be informed of that in
8 the future we would appreciate that --
9 JUDGE KWON: Yes.
10 MR. ROBINSON: -- but that's fine. Then in that case I won't
11 make a motion. My point was that it appeared --
12 JUDGE KWON: If it was filed, you are minded to withdraw it then.
13 MR. ROBINSON: Yes. I didn't file any --
14 JUDGE KWON: No. Thank you.
15 MR. ROBINSON: -- motion. Thank you very much.
16 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
17 Yes, Mr. -- Mr. Nicholls, please continue.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honours.
19 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, what I'd like to do now is just to make it very
20 precise about the filming, and clear, the filming on the 13th of July of
21 Sandici meadow. Let's play the first clip again, where Mr. Petrovic
22 began filming on the 13th, when he then headed towards Konjevic Polje,
23 and then play the clip, the second clip, on the way back. Okay?
24 A. Yes.
25 Q. So I'll ask Mr. Reid to start playing right at the beginning of
Page 23620
1 what we call chapter 2, "On the road," at 9 -- which begins on page 24 of
2 the book.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. All right. I've stopped there at 09:58.3. This again is the
6 scene we see on page 26 now of the road book. It's quite close to the
7 photograph marked C. Just to be clear, this is the beginning at Sandici
8 meadow. Do I have that right?
9 A. Yes, this is correct. First we have the picture of -- yes.
10 Q. Now I ask Mr. Reid to move ahead to show this - we only see a
11 part of the men here - to the second shot we have of Sandici meadow which
12 is just after we see Mr. Borovcanin talking about swapping pistols. If
13 we could go there, please.
14 [Video-clip played]
15 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. We're now at page 32, around photograph B.
16 Q. Again, can you just confirm where this is and when this was
17 taken, this group of men, which we also see in the interactive CD
18 presentation.
19 A. This is -- this picture, this shot is taken on Sandici meadow
20 itself. We see the group of the prisoners, we see the group of the
21 prisoners here.
22 Q. All right. Now I'd like to play this again in slow motion
23 starting from when the camera sweeps from Mr. Borovcanin and his
24 companions to Sandici meadow and the men on the field. And,
25 Mr. Blaszczyk, I'd like to ask you to focus on the very top left portion
Page 23621
1 of the screen and see what you see there, something happening that -- I
2 want to see your comment on it.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. And can we go back a few frames.
5 [Video-clip played]
6 MR. NICHOLLS:
7 Q. And what I'd ask you to look for is a man who appears to be
8 falling down rapidly on the top left screen.
9 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop.
10 Q. Did you notice what I was directing you to?
11 A. Yes. Yes, I do.
12 Q. Have you noticed that before in this segment?
13 A. I remember watching it, and we had some discussion, but it's
14 difficult to say exactly what was going on there.
15 Q. And we don't hear any sound on this part of the video, do we,
16 just where that happens?
17 A. No, we don't.
18 Q. Thank you.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: And I'd now like to ask Mr. Reid to show us the
20 clip of Sandici meadow again, this time now on the return trip from the
21 Konjevic Polje road, and this is at approximately the same section as at
22 page 54 of the road book.
23 [Video-clip played]
24 MR. NICHOLLS: I'll just say now for the record we're starting at
25 23:28.5, yes. The man in the black jacket walking. You can play it,
Page 23622
1 please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS: If you could stop. We've stopped at 23:52.
4 Q. That's the Sandici meadow bit of film we have on the way back.
5 So can you tell us, Mr. Blaszczyk, again, if you answer the question
6 His Honour the Presiding Judge asked you about, do we see the same --
7 what groups of men do we see going and coming back?
8 A. Yes, Your Honour. I was mistaken. You know, just we don't see
9 the same group of the men standing in Sandici meadow because that camera
10 didn't capture the Sandici meadow itself, the centre of Sandici meadow.
11 We see only the men walking towards Sandici meadow carrying wounded or
12 body of one of the men, or woman, man, and we can come to the conclusion
13 that people were still gathering at Sandici meadow. Why? Because in
14 previous footages we see that lot of people still coming down from the
15 forest and going -- crossing the road and going across to Sandici meadow.
16 But we don't see this footage of Sandici meadow in this -- in this raw
17 material.
18 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
19 THE WITNESS: I mean we don't see the prisoners on the Sandici
20 meadow on the way back when Mr. Pirocanac, together with Mr. Petrovic
21 [sic], went back again to Sandici meadow.
22 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. But we see that certain -- some people
23 were still surrendering at this point of time.
24 THE WITNESS: Yes, Your Honour. We see that some people still
25 are surrendering at this point of time, but we don't see people gathering
Page 23623
1 on the Sandici meadow. I believe this is because simply camera didn't
2 catch this part of Sandici meadow.
3 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Mr. Nicholls.
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
5 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, now I'm done with those clips. If you could try
6 to take us through on the video presentation starting at Sandici meadow.
7 We already did Kravica, we don't need to do that again, but going through
8 the trip that Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac and Borovcanin drove on that
9 13th July.
10 A. May I start?
11 Q. Yes.
12 A. Okay. We are again in the detailed map of the area of Sandici.
13 Let's go to overlook on Sandici meadow itself and the surrounding areas.
14 We remember that first foot -- footage in Sandici meadow is the footage
15 of -- of Cop. I mean -- I'm referring to Cop because the nickname of the
16 officer who is standing in front of us right now, bandanna man, his
17 nickname is Cop.
18 Next link showing us the area where Petrovic did his recording.
19 Unfortunately I made again mistake. I didn't put the arrow here, but,
20 Your Honour, if you -- if somebody would like to operate with this
21 presentation, please click just in case this "Help" button here. You
22 see, this is the blue -- blue field. This is linkage page to -- linkage
23 to the still from Petrovic video.
24 Again, it was somewhere here. Okay, I can be mistaken by 1,
25 2 metres, but no more.
Page 23624
1 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, can I ask you to please just leave on that "Help"
2 button while you're going through this so we can see where all those
3 fields are.
4 A. The other fields are okay. You can see. Would you like me to
5 keep this blue field?
6 Q. No. If that's the only one you can remove it.
7 A. And the next action recorded by Mr. Pirocanac is Mr. Borovcanin
8 together with two brothers and swapping his pistols with them. Just
9 watching the pistol.
10 And here we have also the still from Petrovic raw material. We
11 see -- we see here the tank, which was located on Sandici meadow, and we
12 see also another part of the road, on another side of the road the BOV.
13 I believe this is BOV used by the Special Police Brigade, and I believe
14 this is also here, the car, the passenger car here, this is car belong to
15 Mr. Borovcanin. This BOV is much better visible on -- I believe on the
16 page 28 on the picture B, on the still from Petrovic raw material B,
17 marked here as B.
18 This is the same BOV that we see that Mr. Borovcanin and Petrovic
19 following on the roads towards Pervani, Konjevic Polje.
20 And then we see that the next -- next -- and, of course, we have
21 the footage of the group of the people gathered at Sandici meadow. This
22 is almost -- this is the same, in fact, picture from -- still from the
23 page 32, picture, still, A. And also we see the roof of the car, the
24 passenger car, with antenna on it. I believe this is the car of
25 Mr. Borovcanin. We saw in the previous picture.
Page 23625
1 We are coming to the most recent picture and now I would like to
2 show you, Your Honour, the way which Mr. Borovcanin and Mr. Petrovic
3 together with the driver, they followed the APCs. They went towards
4 Konjevic Polje. We are coming -- we are about 200 metres down from
5 Sandici meadow towards -- we are heading now towards Konjevic Polje.
6 Let's go back to the map now. And the first footage of -- of
7 APCs recorded by Mr. Petrovic, this is in the area of Pervani. Again you
8 can link to the image from Petrovic video.
9 Q. Can I just say then -- can I just say that, Mr. Blaszczyk, the
10 link you've just shown us in Pervani, that's on -- those images are on
11 page 34 of the road book; correct?
12 A. Yes, this is correct. This is image from the page 34. And
13 the -- these two APCs moved for a while towards Konjevic Polje, about
14 300 metres. To get this place we have to get it on to the map. It's
15 exactly here. We are again on this place. Buildings to -- the picture
16 from 1995. We see the footage from Petrovic video. This is the same
17 footage as on page 36, footage -- image, sorry, D.
18 And, Your Honour, at this point we have no more footage recorded
19 behind this point towards Konjevic Polje. The first footage recorded by
20 Mr. Pirocanac Petrovic on the way back, this is closer to Sandici meadow.
21 I am back to the map. It's about 1.000 metres closer than the
22 location at that time, these two APCs. This is one of the first footage
23 recorded on the way back by Mr. Pirocanac Petrovic. This --
24 Q. Sorry, continue.
25 A. This entire page, you know, we don't see again here --
Page 23626
1 unfortunately, it's my mistake. We don't see again this arrow leading us
2 to -- linking us to the footage from 1995, but this -- you can use the
3 "Help" button or I can say, of course, that this entire picture is linked
4 to this footage. And we can't get in.
5 Q. And just here we're at pages 38 and 39 of the map book; is that
6 right? Of the road book?
7 A. Yes, correct. You will see if you -- if we get to the footage
8 from 1995, Petrovic footage, we see the same picture. This is on the
9 page 38.
10 And then we see that Mr. Petrovic and Borovcanin, they are
11 driving back to Sandici meadow. They're passing by the first wall. They
12 are linked to the same location, but from 1995, July. This is direction
13 to Sandici meadow. Another image of Petrovic video. And we are getting
14 closer to -- to Sandici meadow.
15 Q. Thank you. And the portion you've just described is on pages 40
16 and 41, is that right, of the road book?
17 A. Yes, this is correct. This portion was on the page 40 and 41.
18 Let's go back to the map. This is again overview of Sandici meadow and
19 its surroundings. Let's go back. And if we are here, Mr. Borovcanin,
20 Mr. Petrovic, they are using this road to getting Sandici meadow.
21 Again, we are closer to Sandici. I would refer to -- to page 43
22 from the -- from my book. I believe this is the same picture.
23 If we link to the -- to the picture from 1995, we see the same
24 picture as is depicted on the page 42 as picture A.
25 This man standing on the right-hand side of the road if you are
Page 23627
1 heading towards Sandici.
2 Mr. Borovcanin passing more soldiers crouching behind the
3 barrier. This is also the same picture we have on the page 42,
4 picture B.
5 And next soldier visible on the page 42, picture C.
6 And the last footage when he's coming out from the bench, in
7 fact, is his picture D from page 42.
8 Let's go back to the map.
9 Your Honour, we were here exactly. If we go to this road, this
10 road is leading to Konjevic Polje. We are exactly on opposite side of --
11 of this retaining wall.
12 Let's go back.
13 If we go to page 44, this is link to the footage from 1995,
14 Petrovic footage. It's again one soldier standing behind a barrier
15 looking forward, hills. And we know that Mr. Petrovic stopped here.
16 He -- he recorded -- he recorded members of Jahorina Unit here. From the
17 book this is page 46. This particular picture, this is picture A from
18 page 46.
19 JUDGE KWON: Sir, it's apparent from this video, according to
20 your explanation, that Pirocanac made a stop before they reached the
21 Kravica warehouse.
22 THE WITNESS: It's correct. It's correct, Your Honour, yes.
23 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
24 THE WITNESS: He stopped -- in fact, he stopped just about
25 200 metres from Sandici meadow. He walked towards Sandici meadow. He
Page 23628
1 stand behind the white destroyed house across the road from Sandici
2 meadow, and they drove to -- towards Kravica.
3 JUDGE KWON: Thank you. Yes, Mr. Nicholls.
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. If you could just -- I think we're almost done. If you could
6 just continue with the last couple links to show Their Honours what else
7 is available on the CD.
8 A. Of course this is another link. Another Jahorina Unit member.
9 We -- we are getting closer to Sandici meadow. Immediately we
10 went to the footage from -- from Petrovic video, but let's go back little
11 bit. It's more visible here.
12 We have here link from the page -- I believe this is page --
13 picture from the page 52, the picture B. Just opposite of the road from
14 Sandici meadow.
15 Okay. Let's go back little bit.
16 If, Your Honour, you remember probably the two members of the
17 Jahorina Unit looking down to the screen -- to the creek, watching down.
18 This is also footage from page 50, footage B.
19 Let's go back to the overview of Sandici meadow and white
20 destroyed house. And now we see that Mr. Petrovic is recording the
21 events surrounding the destroyed white house across -- across the road.
22 Q. Across the road from Sandici meadow?
23 A. Yes, yes, of course, this is across the road from Sandici meadow.
24 We are looking at the west wall of the destroyed white house. We are
25 across the road from Sandici meadow. We see the general view of the path
Page 23629
1 used by the prisoners coming down from the hills and from the forest,
2 passing the road and going to Sandici meadow. And if I zoom in a little
3 bit, it's very hardly too visible, but from this location if we would be
4 there, it's visible Kravica warehouse. It's somewhere here where I point
5 now. And I mark here some links to the picture from -- from Petrovic
6 video.
7 The first one, I believe this is on page 56, still A. We see
8 this man is coming using this path down here. And the footage was
9 recorded just in front of him.
10 We have next one. We have -- we have the group of the prisoners
11 passing by the west wall of this destroyed white house, and it's very
12 visible here are pillars -- one pillar of this white destroyed house.
13 If we come closer to my picture, we see the same pillar here.
14 And this is a picture from Petrovic video depicted on the page 56
15 of this road book as picture F.
16 We have a link near the corner of destroyed white house, and
17 this -- this is Petrovic footage image and is depicted in -- in my road
18 book on the page 54.
19 And we are back to -- we are back to the map, and -- yeah. We
20 were already in Kravica, but we see -- we analyse and we are sure that -
21 what was confirmed, by the way, by Mr. Petrovic as well - that they drove
22 from this location towards Kravica.
23 Q. Thank you. What I'd like to do now, Mr. Blaszczyk, - this will
24 go a little more quickly - is go through the remainder of the Petrovic
25 video and chapters in your book.
Page 23630
1 MR. NICHOLLS: So I'll ask Mr. Reid to start playing where we had
2 left off, which was just after the end of the Sandici meadow return trip
3 segment at around 23:48 or so.
4 And think we need to switch a feed, please.
5 All right. So we're starting again with the man in the black
6 jacket who has just come around the corner of the white house, and we'll
7 start playing there, please.
8 [Video-clip played]
9 THE WITNESS: Can we stop here, please?
10 Your Honour, this is not depicted in my road book, but this is
11 obvious. We know it from Mr. Pirocanac and from other witnesses that we
12 in the following day, on the 14th of July, 1995, and right now
13 Mr. Borovcanin together Petrovic and his driver, of course, they are
14 entering the enclave, Srebrenica enclave, and they are passing by
15 UN check-point known for us as check-point Papa. I think.
16 Q. Let me say we're at 24:58.9.
17 A. This is UN check-point when we are approaching enclave from
18 Bratunac. It's near Zuti Most.
19 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. Continue, Mr. Reid.
20 [Video-clip played]
21 THE WITNESS: Could you stop --
22 MR. NICHOLLS:
23 Q. I was going to stop you. It's 26:01.5. Mr. Blaszczyk, you had
24 something to say about this point?
25 A. Yes. Your Honour, if you pay attention, this is footage depicted
Page 23631
1 in the Studio B broadcast as the footage connected with Kravica warehouse
2 incident. And it is visible that it was recorded on the following day,
3 on the 14, not on the 13th [Realtime transcript read in error "15th"].
4 Q. So just to be clear, if I understand you, this video from the
5 14th of July that we're watching here, in the Studio B edited footage,
6 it's at this point that we get to the Kravica warehouse clip with the
7 bodies, which is absent from the raw footage.
8 A. Yes. This is correct.
9 THE PROSECUTOR: You can keep playing, please.
10 [Video-clip played]
11 MR. NICHOLLS: I've just stopped. It's at 27:25.7.
12 Q. This is not contained, this stop, in your road book. Can you
13 just tell us who the big man is on the right side in the short-sleeved
14 camouflage shirt?
15 A. This is Tomislav Kovac. He's Deputy Minister of Interior of
16 Republika Srpska.
17 Q. And do you know where this location is in Srebrenica -- or I
18 should just say, where this location is?
19 A. Yes, yes, this is in Srebrenica. Unfortunately we don't have the
20 photo of this location. We've decided that it's not so important, but
21 this is in the centre of Srebrenica, and in the front of the police
22 station -- at that time police station in Srebrenica.
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. Keep playing.
24 [Video-clip played]
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. Can I ask you to go back a bit. And play.
Page 23632
1 [Video-clip played]
2 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop.
3 Q. At 27:38.9, that's a little bit fuzzy, but who is the man who
4 just walked in front of Tomo Kovac?
5 A. This man is Dragomir Vasic. He was the head of CJB of Zvornik.
6 THE PROSECUTOR: Keep playing, please.
7 [Video-clip played]
8 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop.
9 Q. I won't go back, but at 27:47.7, we just saw Mr. Borovcanin as
10 well; is that right?
11 A. Yes, this is correct. We saw just Mr. Borovcanin again.
12 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. Play, please.
13 [Video-clip played]
14 THE WITNESS: Could you stop here. Could you go back little bit.
15 Yeah. Could you stop.
16 Okay. We don't have the picture of this police station in our
17 road book here, but we see here also the department store in Srebrenica.
18 It's called Srebrencanka at that time, and we have the picture of this --
19 this -- the same department store is depicted on page 64 of my road book.
20 But we see [indiscernible] picture of the town, I believe.
21 Q. Thank you.
22 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please.
23 THE WITNESS: We see the distance how far it is from the police
24 station in Srebrenica. In fact, the picture does not reflect the exact
25 distance, but it's more or less.
Page 23633
1 MR. NICHOLLS: And before we move on, let me just say we were at
2 approximately 28:10. We can play now.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS: Just stop for a minute at 30:54.4.
5 Q. Nothing to do with this frame, but, Mr. Blaszczyk, do you recall
6 whether Mr. Petrovic said that during this time in Srebrenica on the
7 14th of July that for a time he walked around by himself without
8 Mr. Borovcanin and shot some video downtown?
9 A. Could you repeat, please?
10 Q. At some point on this trip on the 14th, do you know did
11 Mr. Petrovic on his own take some video in Srebrenica when he wasn't with
12 Mr. Borovcanin?
13 A. Yes. This is one of the situation when he walk around Srebrenica
14 without Mr. Borovcanin. At least we don't see Mr. Borovcanin. We don't
15 see any -- we don't hear any conversation with Mr. Borovcanin.
16 JUDGE KWON: Mr. Nicholls, could you check whether we have the
17 transcript of this part in evidence. You can come back later.
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Yes, Your Honour.
19 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Please continue.
20 MR. NICHOLLS: It's P667, Your Honour. It's attached to the
21 video. It should be in evidence. It was admitted as an associated
22 exhibit with Mr. Petrovic's evidence.
23 JUDGE KWON: Together with the transcript.
24 MR. NICHOLLS: I believe so, Your Honour.
25 JUDGE KWON: I was asking because I couldn't find it from this
Page 23634
1 Srebrenica trial video book.
2 MR. NICHOLLS: We can continue playing, please.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. We're at 35:37.8. Just tell us what this image is, which is at
6 page 64 of your map book, position 24 and 23.
7 A. We are in the centre of Srebrenica. We see the department store
8 located in the centre of Srebrenica in front of us. It's called
9 Srebrencanka. At that time, on the right-hand side we see part of the
10 municipality building in Srebrenica.
11 Q. And from the video footage we've seen the apartment buildings.
12 Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac was talking to some people outside the apartments,
13 on the balconies. From your trips to Srebrenica, are you able to tell
14 what vicinity we were in in relation to the department store and
15 downtown?
16 A. It's not -- not far away, just 100 metres, 150 metres, maybe.
17 Q. Okay. So what we've been seeing is downtown Srebrenica?
18 A. Yes. We can say it's downtown Srebrenica. Srebrenica is very
19 small town and just to reach each place in Srebrenica we need only few
20 minutes by walk.
21 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please.
22 [Video-clip played]
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop there, please.
24 Q. Can you just tell us, it's not in your book, but what building is
25 that, if you know?
Page 23635
1 A. I don't know what exactly was there, but I see that is written
2 there "Energoinvest Srebrenica," but this is building located next to
3 municipality building of Srebrenica.
4 Q. Thank you.
5 MR. NICHOLLS: I stopped us at 36:22.2. Could we keep going.
6 [Video-clip played]
7 MR. NICHOLLS: Stop. Could we go back a little bit.
8 Q. All right. We're at 37:42.2. We've stopped, and we'll play the
9 video a bit more, but there's a corpse here, a dead man, and we'll see
10 that there are a couple of other men here with him. Do you know this
11 location in Srebrenica? Are you able to describe it?
12 A. Yes. I know this location very well. This is in -- also in the
13 centre of Srebrenica, also located about 100, 150 metres maybe from the
14 municipality building but from another side, not the same side like
15 department store. And in this footage there are depicted three bodies,
16 and we see the footage of one of the bodies. I believe we see the same
17 body on the footage from recorded on the 12th of July, 1995, by the press
18 centre officer in the centre of Srebrenica but in different -- different
19 location, not far from -- from this location but little bit different
20 location further down to -- to the south, in front of one house,
21 storehouse, something like that. And this is -- this is the body, I
22 believe, you know, just lying on the 12th in the centre of Srebrenica,
23 near mosque.
24 Q. Okay. Well, just a minute. Let me get to that. But you see
25 here this man, the colour of his greying hair, the jacket and the blue
Page 23636
1 jeans.
2 A. Yes. That is correct.
3 Q. I'd like to play another --
4 A. We have to remember, of course, that this -- this -- this footage
5 was recorded on the 14, and the first footage of these men, I believe, we
6 have on the 12th.
7 MR. NICHOLLS: All right. I'd like to play a clip from the trial
8 video from 12 July. This is P40201 coming up. It's from part 2 of the
9 trial video, at the beginning of part 2. If Mr. Reid could play that.
10 [Video-clip played]
11 MR. NICHOLLS:
12 Q. We've stopped here at 27.5, photo of a man with a lot of blood
13 lying on his stomach, face down. Is this -- is this the video you were
14 referring to? Do I have it right?
15 A. Yes, this is correct. You know, this is the video I referred
16 just few seconds ago, and this is also I believe the man who we see on
17 the Petrovic raw footage. If we look at his jacket, at his jeans, at his
18 hair, I believe it's the same man.
19 Q. And can you just tell us where we got this bit of video from
20 that's shot from the 12th?
21 A. I think right now this is the part of the trial video, but video
22 itself we got -- we got from the seizure -- was seized at the apartment
23 of Mr. Ratko Mladic. I don't remember whether it was the first search in
24 2008 or the second one, but I'm pretty sure.
25 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please. We'll just finish this
Page 23637
1 clip.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS: We stopped at 51.4. We can see a mosque with a
4 minaret. Can you just tell us where we are in Srebrenica now
5 approximately. If you can describe the location.
6 A. Yes. We are in the centre -- central square in Srebrenica in
7 front of the central mosque.
8 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. We'll keep playing, we'll just finish
9 this clip.
10 [Video-clip played]
11 THE WITNESS: Could you stop here, please. And, Your Honour, the
12 same body and together with two other bodies we see on the Petrovic raw
13 material exactly behind this building visible on that right-hand side.
14 This is, I think, ten-floors building over there and little bit deep over
15 there and the bodies were visible there.
16 MR. NICHOLLS: We're at 1:15.2. Keep playing, please.
17 [Video-clip played]
18 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you. You can stop. Now, if we can just go
19 back to the Petrovic raw video footage. We're at the same point.
20 Keep playing.
21 [Video-clip played]
22 THE WITNESS: May I say something, Your Honour?
23 JUDGE KWON: Yes. Yes. By all means, yes.
24 THE WITNESS: And, Your Honour, we believe that this body is the
25 body of the man who was killed on 11 of July, 1995, in the centre of
Page 23638
1 Srebrenica. These killings have been described by one of our witness, I
2 believe. For sure this is Drazen Erdemovic. We believe this is the body
3 of --
4 JUDGE KWON: I think this is not the subject of his evidence. We
5 can continue.
6 [Video-clip played]
7 MR. NICHOLLS:
8 Q. It's hard to stop on exactly the right frame. We're at 39:35.2.
9 Mr. Blaszczyk, did you notice the patch, the black patch on the left arm
10 of the man in the middle as we were playing? We can play it a bit more.
11 A. Yes, yes, I did, of course. I watched this video several times
12 and this is patch of Drina Wolves unit.
13 Q. You're familiar with that patch?
14 A. Yes, I am.
15 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please.
16 [Video-clip played]
17 MR. NICHOLLS: I'm not sure if there's an error in the
18 transcript. No. It's all right. My mistake, sorry. Keep playing.
19 [Video-clip played]
20 MR. NICHOLLS:
21 Q. And just to point out, Mr. Blaszczyk, 41:06.8, the date stamp has
22 appeared, 14 July 1995. Just to ask again, is that the correct date when
23 this footage was taken based on all of the evidence?
24 A. Yeah. This is correct date. This is the date when this
25 recording was done.
Page 23639
1 MR. NICHOLLS: Continue, please.
2 [Video-clip played]
3 MR. NICHOLLS:
4 Q. Mr. Blaszczyk, I wanted to ask you one question about the road,
5 but before we continue to the next chapter, to Zeleni Jadar and the wood
6 factory, on page 66 of your book there are two photos, A and B, that
7 occur -- that were taken, I believe, later on in sequence on the video on
8 the way back from Zeleni Jadar towards Bratunac. Can you tell us why
9 you've put them in here at this spot?
10 A. Yes. It was created this -- these photos, they are stills from
11 the footage recorded on the way back from Zeleni Jadar by Mr. Pirocanac.
12 I put this photo of Srebrenica in one place. I didn't want to create
13 additional chapters, whatever. I didn't want to make this book quite
14 complicated. And I put these photos in one chapter.
15 Q. Thank you.
16 MR. NICHOLLS: We can continue now, and we'll get to the next
17 chapter, just getting closer to the end. Play, please.
18 [Video-clip played]
19 THE WITNESS: Can we stop here? Your Honour, we are
20 approaching -- in fact, Mr. Pirocanac is approaching Zeleni Jadar
21 factory, wood factory, and if you notice some sandbags over there, this
22 is check-point OP Echo, UN check-point, UN observation point.
23 MR. NICHOLLS: And we'd stopped at about 42:36. If we can
24 continue.
25 [Video-clip played]
Page 23640
1 MR. NICHOLLS: We're at 42:46.8.
2 Q. It's not exactly the same photo, but now this goes to page 70 of
3 your map book in Zeleni Jadar. This is a closer-up photo of the building
4 at page -- of photo A, page 70, map position 22. Can you just tell us
5 where we are now and what this building is?
6 A. We are in Zeleni Jadar, and this is a wood factory in
7 Zeleni Jadar. On the left -- on the page 70 we see the footage from
8 Petrovic video depicting this factory, the same factory, the same, in
9 fact, part of the wall over there. And we have the picture of the same
10 factory from -- taken in 2006 on page 71.
11 MR. NICHOLLS: Keep playing, please.
12 [Video-clip played]
13 MR. NICHOLLS:
14 Q. We stopped now at 45:45.0. Nearly the same exact still we have
15 before us is on page 70, B, in Zeleni Jadar. Just for the record, who
16 are these three men now together that have now travelled to Zeleni Jadar
17 from -- we saw earlier in Srebrenica that Mr. Petrovic is filming? Who
18 are these three in the frame?
19 A. The first man is Tomo Kovac, the Deputy Minister of Interior.
20 The second man is Dragomir Vasic, the head of Zvornik CJB; and the last
21 one is Ljubisa Borovcanin, the Deputy Commander of the Special Police
22 Brigade.
23 MR. NICHOLLS: Can it be played, please.
24 [Video-clip played]
25 THE WITNESS: Can we stop here? This is observation -- OP Echo,
Page 23641
1 the former Dutch OP.
2 MR. NICHOLLS: And we're at 46:31.5. Continue, please.
3 [Video-clip played]
4 MR. NICHOLLS:
5 Q. All right. We were -- I stopped us at 48.24.5. We're getting
6 close to the end of his raw -- of Mr. Petrovic's raw footage. Can you
7 tell us now, Mr. Borovcanin and Mr. Petrovic Pirocanac are back in the
8 car driving, where are they going and what is this we see where they've
9 stopped for a minute?
10 A. They are driving towards Srebrenica. We see the view of
11 Srebrenica, of the hill above Srebrenica.
12 MR. NICHOLLS: Continue, please.
13 [Video-clip played]
14 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you.
15 Q. We're at 49:46.3. Could you tell us where we are here?
16 A. We are coming to the centre of Srebrenica, and this photo
17 reflects the photo from my road book, from the page 66. This is
18 two photos recorded by Mr. Pirocanac on the way back from Zeleni Jadar to
19 Srebrenica.
20 MR. NICHOLLS: Okay. And just to be clear, these are the ones
21 which are slightly out of sequence because now coming back from
22 Zeleni Jadar. If we could continue.
23 [Video-clip played]
24 THE WITNESS: Can we stop here. Your Honour, on the left-hand
25 side we are passing by UN compound, Company B compound in Srebrenica.
Page 23642
1 JUDGE KWON: How much more would you need to conclude,
2 Mr. Nicholls?
3 MR. NICHOLLS: Well, Your Honour, there's, I think, a little bit
4 less than 10 minutes of video and then I have one discrete topic which is
5 the -- talking a little bit about the Drina Corps collection and where it
6 came from, what it is, which I think that part will take me 15 minutes or
7 less, so in total about 25 minutes.
8 JUDGE KWON: Very well. Why don't we continue tomorrow.
9 MR. NICHOLLS: Thank you, Your Honour.
10 JUDGE KWON: Can I draw your attention to transcript page of
11 today 77, line -- from 2 to 5, referring to the footage recorded in
12 Srebrenica town. This is Mr. Blaszczyk's response:
13 "This is footage depicted in Studio B broadcast as footage
14 connected with the Kravica warehouse. It is visible that it was recorded
15 on the following day, the 14th, not on the 15th," but the transcript
16 should read 13th, not 15th.
17 MR. NICHOLLS: I think that is right, Your Honour, and I was
18 going ask Mr. Blaszczyk about that later, but maybe he can tell us now if
19 that's --
20 JUDGE KWON: I noted he's nodding, but could you answer that
21 question, Mr. Blaszczyk.
22 THE WITNESS: Yes, this is correct, Your Honour. It should be
23 read 13, not 15.
24 JUDGE KWON: Yes. And I have to correct myself, Mr. Robinson.
25 It is not that our staff e-mailed the Prosecution but had a phone
Page 23643
1 conversation when it is minded to respond.
2 And on a separate note, the Chamber is seized of the accused's
3 motion to compel the United Kingdom to produce certain documents. Given
4 the novelty of the issue raised in that motion, the Chamber would
5 appreciate if it could have the response from the Prosecution. Thank
6 you.
7 Can I ask how long it would take you to respond to that motion.
8 MR. TIEGER: Your Honour, I can get back to you. I appreciate
9 that that is a question that asks us to get back in the earliest possible
10 time, but I'll give you a more realistic appraisal if I can check our
11 resources against our ongoing obligations, and I wouldn't want to promise
12 anything right now unfairly to our staff as they're working on other
13 matters.
14 JUDGE KWON: Thank you.
15 We'll adjourn until tomorrow morning at 9.00. We will be sitting
16 in regular format tomorrow, i.e., until 1.45.
17 The hearing is now adjourned.
18 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 3.02 p.m.,
19 to be reconvened on Thursday, the 26th day
20 of January, 2012, at 9.00 a.m.
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