Page 119
1 Tuesday, 6 May 2008
2 [Status Conference]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 10.08 a.m.
6 JUDGE PARKER: Good morning to everybody. The Chamber has
7 convened today to determine the status of this matter and the course of
8 its preparation for trial.
9 Now, Mr. Stanisic, are you able to hear me in a language you
10 understand?
11 He hasn't a microphone.
12 Are you able to hear me in a language that you understand?
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I am.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you. It's important that you be able to
15 follow the proceedings this morning.
16 Now, appearances. For the Prosecutor.
17 MS. RICHTEROVA: Good morning, Your Honours. My name is
18 Anna Richterova; to my left is Karen Beausey; and to her left is
19 Sooraya Gareeboo; to my right is Crispian Smith, case manager. Thank
20 you.
21 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.
22 Mr. Bezbradica.
23 MR. BEZBRADICA: Good morning, Your Honour. My name is
24 Stevo Bezbradica, and still official counsel for Mr. Mico Stanisic, who
25 is present in this courtroom this morning. Thank you.
Page 120
1 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.
2 The matter we're dealing with, of course, has not been formally
3 called and it might be useful for the record if that were now done.
4 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honours. Good morning,
5 everyone in and around the courtroom. This is case number IT-04-79-PT,
6 the Prosecutor versus Mico Stanisic. Thank you, Your Honours.
7 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
8 Now, since the last time that there was a Status Conference in
9 this matter, which was on the 9th of January, there have been
10 developments particularly recently which caused the Chamber to have
11 considerable concern as to the potential for this case not to be ready
12 for trial. Let me make it clear that this is one of three cases that
13 will be commenced during the second half of this year and could be called
14 upon to commence as early as late July. The situation, of course, is
15 that three trials are in their final stages, and when those trials
16 finish, the next three cases will necessarily have to be ready to
17 proceed. And this one is one that has been waiting for some time, it's
18 important that it proceed, and we want to be sure that things are in
19 order for that to happen.
20 What particularly caused the Chamber concern is the issue of the
21 representation of the accused, Mr. Stanisic. There have been
22 difficulties with the present Defence counsel and his payment, and then
23 there was a formal notification by the accused that he wished to
24 represent himself and not to continue with the present representation.
25 The position that concerns the Chamber is that while that is happening
Page 121
1 the capacity of Mr. Bezbradica to properly and adequately represent the
2 accused is obviously being adversely affected. He is not currently
3 receiving the normal instructions that he would receive, and there is
4 apparently not the normal communication that there would be between
5 counsel and the accused.
6 Given the need to ensure that certain critical matters which
7 remain to be dealt with in the final preparation of this case are dealt
8 with and dealt with properly so that the trial is ready and the accused's
9 Defence in particular is ready for trial, the Chamber felt it important
10 that we look closely at this issue of the representation of the accused.
11 To that end, it appeared to the Chamber essential that the
12 accused be present here for these proceedings and orders were made for
13 his return to The Hague
14 that had previously been in place.
15 The Chamber is informed that following yesterday's hearing before
16 the principal Legal Officer that Mr. Stanisic had discussions yesterday
17 with representations of the Office of Legal Aid and with the Deputy
18 Registrar of the Tribunal.
19 Can we take this moment, Mr. Stanisic, if I address you fairly
20 directly to point out to you the very great significance that there is
21 for you in ensuring that you are adequately represented and that your
22 defence is properly prepared and properly presented. I don't think we
23 need to emphasize to you the importance of the issue of whether you are
24 found guilty or not guilty of the charges that are being brought against
25 you. It is obvious that if you have a significant defence, that should
Page 122
1 be properly prepared and presented during the trial. It's also the case
2 that the trial can be expected to take many months. It will not be, we
3 hope, one of the enormously long trials that can occur in this
4 jurisdiction; but it is still a trial that can be expected to take in the
5 order of a year. It may finish more quickly than that if all parties are
6 well prepared and the issues are focused on clearly, but it's going to
7 be, even with that, a trial of some length in which you will be called on
8 to be in court normally five days a week, which is the sitting practice
9 of this Chamber, for example; and that means that witness after witness
10 will come, you will need to be prepared to deal with that witness, to
11 present what needs to be put to that witness, and to prepare your own
12 witnesses and have them ready when the time comes.
13 I see that you did graduate in law some years ago, but I gather
14 that you've not been practicing law. Your interests have been mainly
15 elsewhere. And frankly, the task of keeping up with the pace of a normal
16 hearing is simply too much for one person. If you were to be
17 representing yourself, the consequence would be that some of the things
18 that you would want to do in the preparation and presentation of your
19 defence could not adequately be done because you would just not have
20 enough time and energy to be able to do them as well as they ought to be
21 done.
22 Now, if you were representing yourself, the Trial Chamber would
23 do what it could to try and ensure that your case was being adequately
24 presented. But in the end, the responsibility of the Chamber is to do
25 two things: To give you an opportunity to present your case properly,
Page 123
1 but also to ensure that the trial is finished as efficiently and as
2 quickly as possible. We can't just let the case drift on at a pace that
3 you find comfortable. This Tribunal has had to conduct a number of
4 trials where accused people have sought to represent themselves, and
5 we've been learning from each one of those cases how better to deal with
6 the problems that they often present. No two cases are the same, that's
7 obvious, but one thing that we have learnt is that it is just not fair to
8 anybody, least of all the accused, but certainly not to the other accused
9 waiting to be tried, to allow the case to just go at a pace that is so
10 slow that one accused can adequately present the defence.
11 So it cannot be the case that you can expect to be able to handle
12 the case in your own time, in your own way, and we want you to be very
13 aware of that. You want and you need and you ought to be able to ensure
14 that your case is presented as adequately and soundly as possible, and
15 that is obviously very much in your interests. It's also in the
16 interests of this Tribunal to try and ensure that the trial is fair and
17 the issues are fully presented, and it's also in the interests of
18 everybody to ensure that that can be done as quickly and efficiently as
19 possible so that the trial can be shorter and a final decision, whether
20 it be not guilty or guilty, is reached as quickly as possible.
21 For that reason, the Chamber would suggest to you very, very
22 firmly that it would not be in your interests to be representing yourself
23 and trying to take the load of conducting your own defence alone
24 throughout the trial. You need competent assistance. You will be busy
25 but with others doing some of the work as well, it is in that way
Page 124
1 possible to keep up with the pace of the trial, to be prepared for each
2 of the witnesses, and to have your own case ready.
3 Therefore, the Chamber was very gravely concerned at your advice
4 that you wished to conduct your own defence. We would urge you to
5 consider that position very carefully, and we would put to you that
6 really you are putting yourself at risk of not being able to put your
7 case properly, no matter how the Trial Chamber tries to help if you do
8 not have legal representation to help you.
9 Now, you are aware and it's common knowledge that you have been
10 provided with counsel to assist you under the legal aid scheme of this
11 Tribunal. One issue is whether you wish to change counsel at this time.
12 It is getting very near the end of the preparation of your defence and
13 there are obviously problems about changing counsel at this point, and
14 this Chamber has to look carefully at any proposal that you have. It is
15 the case, though, that it could be open to you if your mind, for whatever
16 reason, is clear that you would like to have other counsel assigned, that
17 it would be possible for you to choose other counsel from the lengthy
18 list that is available of counsel who are able to appear here who are
19 experienced counsel. Now, the Chamber does not want to go into the
20 questions of your relationship with the counsel who's represented you now
21 for, I think, over two years and who has been conscientiously performing
22 that responsibility. But if it is the situation that you are clear in
23 your mind now, for whatever reason, that you want some other counsel to
24 represent you, well then that needs to be dealt with quickly and
25 decisions made in fairness to the preparation of your defence, in
Page 125
1 fairness to your present counsel who has been carrying on with great
2 difficulty in recent months, and in fairness to whoever you choose to be
3 your new counsel because they must now pick up a case and under some time
4 pressure get prepared themselves and become fully familiar with your
5 case.
6 So we are putting to you the situation I hope very clearly. A,
7 that if you really want to represent yourself you would be doing yourself
8 harm, you would not be putting forward your best case. And we would have
9 to consider very carefully as a Chamber whether we could allow that to
10 happen. We would urge on you the view that you really do need to be
11 represented in the conduct of your trial because that way there is the
12 best chance that all the matters favourable to you will be put forward in
13 the best way. If it is the case that what you want to do is to be
14 represented but by some other counsel, that should be dealt with - we
15 would suggest - during this week; it can't just run on as it is at the
16 moment.
17 So we would take the position that we would ask the -- you've
18 lost the translation, have you? Is it back again? Thank you.
19 We would take the position that we would ask the Deputy
20 Registrar, Mr. Hocking, to continue discussions with you with the head of
21 the legal aid office of this Chamber, with a view to resolving in the
22 next days of this week finally whether your present counsel is to
23 continue or whether you wish another person to be assigned or what it is.
24 And the Chamber will, if necessary, reconvene this Status Conference
25 later in the week to deal with the matter further. We would like you to
Page 126
1 consider your position in light of what we have been saying now, in the
2 hope that you can reach decisions which will enable your case to be
3 properly presented with the assistance of counsel that you are happy to
4 have go forward to present your case through the assistance of the legal
5 aid scheme that is available here. And we want you to reach your
6 decisions, taking into account what we've tried to indicate to you
7 briefly about the difficulties and disadvantages of the sort of course
8 you were contemplating. It's not right to ask you now to make decisions.
9 You ought to have some time to think about it further, and we will
10 arrange for the Deputy Registrar and the legal aid office head,
11 Mr. Petrov, to speak to you again and discuss possible arrangements. And
12 because of that we would also invite Mr. Bezbradica to remain in The
13 Hague during the next few days of this week, with a view to the matter
14 being finalised. It may be that there will be a clear decision that you
15 continue; it may be there will be a clear decision that some other
16 counsel be appointed, and we would hope that that can be arranged, even
17 in the course of today, if not then in the course of tomorrow. The
18 Chamber will be here sitting in another case and we'll be able to convene
19 at short notice, if necessary, to assist further in that matter.
20 Have you been able to follow what we've been suggesting so far to
21 you, Mr. Stanisic, about the need for some final decisions to be made
22 about what you wish to do, and depending on those decisions the Chamber
23 may have to consider further particular orders. But we'll look at that
24 after you've had time to reflect.
25 [Trial Chamber confers]
Page 127
1 JUDGE PARKER: It's been pointed out to me, Mr. Stanisic, that
2 you nodded that you had understood what we were saying and that you would
3 give the matter consideration, but you didn't say so and so the record
4 doesn't reveal. If you have understood what we are saying and will think
5 about the matter, perhaps you could just indicate yes, you will do that.
6 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honours, first of all I would
7 like to thank the Trial Chamber which showed understanding three years
8 ago and issued a decision on my provisional release, and thus allowed me
9 to adequately prepare for the upcoming trial. All the changes that have
10 occurred in the meantime I claim will not have a bearing on any of the
11 dead-lines in preparing my defence because I've been actively working for
12 three and a half years now with a team of advisors who are in Belgrade
13 and we have also taken Mr. Bezbradica on board occasionally through
14 e-mail. We have not been able to contact him in any other way.
15 I can promise you at this point that I will reflect on my
16 position and the option whether to represent myself or to take another
17 counsel, but as far as Mr. Bezbradica is concerned I don't want to waste
18 any of your time but my final conclusion is that I cannot accept him as
19 my Defence counsel. Maybe there will be an opportunity to go into the
20 detail of that decision, but maybe this is not a good time.
21 JUDGE PARKER: It is not a good time, and the Chamber would make
22 clear to you, Mr. Stanisic, that it will be for the Chamber to make that
23 decision because you are in a position where you're receiving legal
24 assistance. And we have to try and ensure that your trial is conducted
25 fairly to you, and the step of simply saying, I want to represent myself,
Page 128
1 has such potential adverse implications for your defence that this
2 Chamber would have to give very careful consideration to whether it would
3 allow that move. And that's why we have been, A, trying to make you
4 understand some of the difficulties that lie ahead for you if you were to
5 want to go down that course; and also why we have been very genuinely
6 interested in urging upon you the course of considering, if it is that
7 you wanting to change counsel, to make that decision and have some other
8 counsel appointed as quickly as possible because that will then enable
9 this Chamber to accept that your defence is again being adequately
10 prepared and will be ready to be properly presented. So I hope that's a
11 little more clear to you now.
12 It's not the case at this stage, in the last stages of
13 preparation for trial, that you can simply say without more, No, I'm
14 going to represent myself, because our responsibility is to ensure for
15 you a fair trial and an efficient and speedy trial. It might preclude us
16 from agreeing to that course.
17 Well, if you could look at that question of counsel in the next
18 day or so as soon as you're contacted again, we would be very grateful.
19 And what we will now do is to move on to quickly canvass some other
20 matters and -- yes, Mr. Bezbradica.
21 MR. BEZBRADICA: [Microphone not activated]
22 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone for the counsel, please.
23 MR. BEZBRADICA: [Microphone not activated]
24 JUDGE PARKER: Could you turn on the microphone. Yes, thank you.
25 MR. BEZBRADICA: Your Honour, I apologise, because I interrupt
Page 129
1 you, but you mentioned a few minutes ago that I need to stay a few days
2 further in The Hague
3 JUDGE PARKER: Does this create a problem for you?
4 MR. BEZBRADICA: Yes, Your Honour, because when I came in I
5 didn't know for your -- for this new point that I need to stay here. I
6 already booked only for three days here, and tomorrow I'm going back. I
7 have my obligations there in Melbourne
8 me to book few days to stay here before I know for this
9 Status Conference; it's really hard for me to do that now because I
10 really need to go back there.
11 JUDGE PARKER: What time tomorrow is your flight?
12 MR. BEZBRADICA: Departure time is 12.00 a.m. you know, at this
13 moment I'm really doing really hard work because at this stage I have to
14 cover up everything, and I did that. It is really hard to stay here
15 because I have to go there to finish some necessary job for me who is --
16 which is a connection with my office there. Thank you.
17 [Trial Chamber confers]
18 JUDGE PARKER: We have a notice from your written communications,
19 Mr. Bezbradica, that you have been experiencing some difficulty gaining
20 instructions about various matters. Would you be in a position to
21 indicate to the Chamber how you feel the relationship is at that moment?
22 Are you in a position to continue, as it were, to conduct the defence of
23 the accused or is this a matter which you find has become impractical or
24 impossible?
25 MR. BEZBRADICA: Yes, Your Honour. As you are aware, I am in
Page 130
1 this case since the 5th of May, 2006, and two days two years. On the 5th
2 of March, Mr. Stanisic asked for my withdrawal from the case, and already
3 my submission to the Tribunal, and the Registry already explained reasons
4 why I thought that accused -- that Mr. Stanisic's allegations are not
5 correct to me and I did explain that. From the beginning we had really
6 good communication to each other -- especially I have really good
7 communication with him. Now something is coming back. And my intention
8 is not to repeat everything what's happening and my --
9 JUDGE PARKER: No, we're not asking you to do that.
10 MR. BEZBRADICA: No, that's right.
11 JUDGE PARKER: We just want to know where you find yourself at
12 the moment.
13 MR. BEZBRADICA: At the moment I don't like, Your Honour, to
14 represent him before the Tribunal for -- I think that our relationship,
15 because of his allegation, there is already broken and cannot be
16 reconciled under any condition. I don't know what will be your decision.
17 If you decide that I must go there and that -- you know, I will obey your
18 decision, but it will not be my free will.
19 JUDGE PARKER: We're grateful for that indication,
20 Mr. Bezbradica.
21 MR. BEZBRADICA: Thank you.
22 JUDGE PARKER: It's one of the factors the Chamber must take into
23 account as it deals with the decisions reached by Mr. Stanisic as he
24 reflects on this matter. We're grateful for that. We will work on the
25 basis that you will be departing tomorrow on a flight at noon and it may
Page 131
1 be that some final indication of your position can be given by then,
2 otherwise that communication to you will be in your office in Melbourne
3 So thank you for your preparedness to be here and for the indication
4 you've given.
5 If the Chamber could now move on, there is a motion for leave to
6 amend the indictment from the Prosecution which was one of a number of
7 motions which for a time this Chamber had thought better left for the
8 actual Trial Chamber that would conduct the trial, when it appeared
9 likely that that would be another Trial Chamber. Circumstances have
10 changed with the progress of other cases and the availability of
11 Chambers, and it's clear now that we need to deal with these final
12 matters relevant to the preparation of the case for trial, even though at
13 this moment it's not possible to be certain exactly when this case will
14 begin and before which Chamber. So we are giving attention now to those
15 matters which have been held. And the question of the amendment of the
16 indictment has come back into sharp focus.
17 We did give a decision early in April, which called upon the
18 Prosecution to reconsider the indictment with a view to limiting its
19 scope, that is, to lessening the range of allegations in the indictment.
20 The Prosecution has made, as we requested, a response to that, in which
21 it proposes the removal of some particular allegations but does not in
22 any way diminish the charges that are brought and the essential range of
23 what is alleged in what the Prosecution now proposes is substantially
24 that that was there before. There has been the identification of some
25 particular sites or locations that could be removed, but they still
Page 132
1 leave, even if those changes were made, a very wide-ranging indictment.
2 And because of that, the Chamber is of the view that it should look fully
3 and carefully at the question of whether an order should be made by the
4 Chamber pursuant to Rule 73 bis, which would be more effective in
5 lessening the range and scope of the present indictment.
6 For that reason, Ms. Richterova, the Chamber would ask that in 14
7 days from now, within 14 days from now, that you might present formal
8 submissions pursuant to Rule 73 bis about the indictment. We would make
9 it clear that the Chamber has no fixed or final view about this matter,
10 but we are concerned that what is presently alleged is very wide-ranging
11 and it may be that the essential issues of the case from the point of
12 view of the Prosecution can be adequately dealt with in the smaller, more
13 confined indictment. And therefore, we must ask you to put in more
14 detailed submissions so that the Chamber can reach a view whether it
15 ought to order the reduction of the indictment more than was proposed in
16 your response made a couple of weeks ago.
17 There will be a formal order published to that effect, but it
18 will be with a view to submissions being made by the Prosecution within
19 the next fortnight. Is that time, do you think, adequate for your
20 purposes? We fixed on it, having in mind that you have just looked at
21 the indictment and come up with proposals so that a lot of the work and
22 thought has already been dealt with and we were of the view that probably
23 a fortnight then was a fair and adequate time for you.
24 Is that the case?
25 MS. RICHTEROVA: I think two weeks could be adequate time;
Page 133
1 however, if Your Honour allow me to address just very briefly few points.
2 I think it is important to consider our 24th April submission in
3 combination with our previous submission, our submission in relation to
4 presentation of evidence pursuant to 92 bis, 92 ter, also on 29 of
5 February we filed our amended list of witnesses. And we have reduced the
6 time of presentation of our case quite significantly. We reduced it from
7 243 hours to 175 hours, and if you take into consideration our proposal
8 from 24th of April when we suggested, first, to remove completely certain
9 seven of crime sites or incidents plus we proposed not to lead any
10 evidence on 76, approximately 76 other crime sites and incidents.
11 Together it is already over 100 sites for which we don't intend to lead
12 any evidence, which is half of the case.
13 JUDGE PARKER: Um --
14 MS. RICHTEROVA: Half of the incidents, yeah. So --
15 JUDGE PARKER: We've looked at that, and of course what you're
16 now doing is possibly part of the submissions you would make under 73
17 bis. We're aware of it, but we feel that it is a case where we should
18 explore fully whether the indictment can sensibly and properly be reduced
19 further, and we would therefore like your full and reasoned submissions
20 about that. We don't lightly see it as our role to step in and limit the
21 indictment just arbitrarily; we want to give you a proper scope for
22 presenting your case. But when we look at what your case presently is,
23 what you propose your reduced case should be, we think we have reason to
24 look more closely and fully at whether it can be reduced even further.
25 So we'd be grateful if you would do that.
Page 134
1 MS. RICHTEROVA: Of course we will try to do our best. We -- I
2 only would like to know whether Your Honour suggest that we file a
3 proposed amended indictment in which we would incorporate all suggested
4 changes. Because at this moment we have our 9 May motion, 14 February
5 motion to amend the indictment. Now we proposed another scope --
6 reduction of the scope of the indictment.
7 [Trial Chamber confers]
8 JUDGE PARKER: We have a rough working document which probably
9 does that, but as Judge Thelin points out there may be some
10 misunderstandings or uncertainties about that and it would be a wise
11 precaution if you were to file a -- your understanding of what you want.
12 MS. RICHTEROVA: I think --
13 JUDGE PARKER: So, yes, it is a useful and helpful suggestion,
14 we're grateful for it. Yes.
15 MS. RICHTEROVA: Okay. Thank you, Your Honour. And we will file
16 it within two weeks.
17 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
18 Can I make it clear, Mr. Stanisic, so that you're aware with
19 Mr. Bezbradica as to what is happening. The Chamber has called on the
20 Prosecution to think of reducing its indictment, making it smaller,
21 removing some of the allegations against you. The Prosecution about two
22 weeks ago made some proposals to make the indictment smaller. The
23 Chamber has said to the Prosecution, We, the Chamber, wants to look more
24 closely at that to see whether the indictment can be made even more
25 smaller, whether we can reduce the indictment more. From your point of
Page 135
1 view, any reduction in the indictment will be to your advantage. The
2 Chamber is doing it from the point of view of trying to ensure that the
3 essential case against you is presented but not with unnecessary breadth
4 of allegations and range of issues. We want to get down to what really
5 is the essential case, and for that reason we are asking the Prosecution
6 now within another 14 days from now to look again to see what matters
7 might or might not be further reduced out of the indictment. The Chamber
8 will then decide whether the indictment should be further reduced or not
9 in light of those submissions.
10 So understand that's what's happening. We're seeing whether the
11 indictment can be made smaller, which will lessen your task in defending
12 if that should happen.
13 [Trial Chamber confers]
14 JUDGE PARKER: The Chamber is also now looking at a new third
15 motion by the Prosecution for judicial notice of previously adjudicated
16 facts to be taken. The Chamber has given some decisions about these
17 matters already, and the Prosecution has now moved firstly a third motion
18 on the 25th of January this year and then a fourth motion on the 24th of
19 April this year, proposing further adjudicated facts and those motions
20 will be now considered and dealt with by this Chamber. There is a
21 proposal to amend the witness list by the Prosecution. It removes some
22 witnesses, proposed the addition of some others, and of course that is
23 affected by the actual indictment. If the indictment were to be reduced,
24 that list may have to be further amended. But the Prosecution has
25 proposed presently, at present, that there be a change to it Rule 65 ter
Page 136
1 witness list; and we have had responses from the Defence about that and
2 we will give consideration to that. And that applies not only to its
3 motion of the 29th of February but also its further motion of the 25th of
4 April.
5 There is a motion for protective measures for certain witnesses
6 which the Chamber will deal with, and there are also motions for the
7 Prosecution to be able to present part of its case from a number of
8 witnesses pursuant to Rule 92 bis, 92 ter, and 92 quater, which are forms
9 of written evidence with or without cross-examination, and also pursuant
10 to Rule 94 bis, which deals with expert witnesses. Now, those matters
11 are also now to be dealt with by the Chamber.
12 The only motion from the Defence which the Chamber presently has
13 is one concerning remuneration of assigned counsel which was filed on the
14 9th of April and which we will give consideration to.
15 The Chamber has asked the parties to explore agreed facts. We
16 understand that the position is that there has been no agreement reached,
17 proposals having been made by the Prosecution; the Defence has not
18 responded positively. This was dealt with last in the Status Conference
19 in -- on the 9th of January this year. At the moment, from the point of
20 view of the Chamber, that is a matter which will have to await a
21 resolution of the Defence counsel position because this does call for
22 positive decision by the Defence whether to agree certain facts and at
23 the moment change of counsel will perhaps affect the approach taken to
24 that. So at the moment the Chamber is working on the basis that there is
25 no present prospect of agreement being reached on any of the proposed
Page 137
1 facts.
2 The point of all this, if I can make it clear, Mr. Stanisic, is
3 that there are often matters which can be agreed because there are facts
4 that the Prosecution wants to be accepted and there are facts that the
5 Defence doesn't dispute. If they can be agreed, it means that some
6 witnesses don't have to be called and can speed up the trial. So it's a
7 matter that is useful for focusing on what really is in dispute in the
8 trial and ensuring the trial can proceed as quickly and efficiently as
9 possible. So once there's been resolution of the Defence counsel
10 position, we would ask that there be a sensible look at proposals for
11 agreed facts because it's in your interests, as well as the Prosecution,
12 that if there are facts that aren't disputed to have them formally
13 agreed.
14 I wonder --
15 MS. RICHTEROVA: Your Honour, if I --
16 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
17 MS. RICHTEROVA: -- address this issue. I would like to clarify
18 certain points. There are some agreements. If Your Honour remember in
19 your decision from December in relation to adjudicated facts, certain
20 facts were transformed into agreed facts. In addition to these facts,
21 there was communication between the Prosecution and the Defence about
22 additional agreed facts, and we managed to reach a limited number of
23 agreed facts. However, when we proposed a consolidated list of these
24 agreed facts, the negotiation was stopped and the Defence refused to
25 communicate any further. So this is one clarification which I wanted to
Page 138
1 make.
2 [Trial Chamber confers]
3 JUDGE PARKER: Well, thank you for that. I think you had
4 proposed some 60 facts, and it was thought that perhaps 26 facts might
5 have been agreed. But it -- all of that, as we understand it, is now not
6 moving forward and we think resolution of Defence counsel issue first may
7 then enable the issue of agreed facts to be looked at again.
8 MS. RICHTEROVA: That's correct, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you very much.
10 I was about to turn to you, Ms. Richterova, to ask whether there
11 are any difficulties now being experienced with disclosure and how that
12 is progressing.
13 MS. RICHTEROVA: This issue was addressed yesterday during 65 ter
14 conference. I do not have any problem -- or better say I hope
15 Mr. Bezbradica expressed that he has received all our disclosure. And if
16 he was missing something, he always addressed first the Prosecution. So
17 I think the disclosure -- there is no problem regarding the disclosure.
18 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you.
19 Is that your understanding of the position, Mr. Bezbradica?
20 MR. BEZBRADICA: Yes, Your Honour. Everything is correct what
21 Ms. Richterova said. In due time -- at the moment I'm receiving all CDs
22 necessary for this procedure, but only now at the moment because this
23 situation is a little bit confused because of my request for my
24 withdrawal. I don't know how can I provide Mr. Stanisic with everything.
25 In -- since the 5th of March, when I received official -- his request for
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1 my withdrawal, in the two occasions I mailed by express post from
2 Melbourne
3 I have been confirmed by Australia
4 The third parcel -- yesterday I spoke with Belgrade it has not been
5 received by him because in the meantime he came back to The Hague now.
6 Now I don't know how can I provide him with everything. Is it good that
7 Prosecution directly provide him with that CDs or not. Maybe in the
8 space of time they are going to mail directly to me to Melbourne and I
9 have mail back to The Hague
10 JUDGE PARKER: You're posing a couple of issues there. The first
11 one is to ensure that anything you have presently received is
12 communicated to Mr. Stanisic. And it seems there is one bundle still in
13 the mail that hasn't been received by Mr. Stanisic. We will --
14 MR. BEZBRADICA: Yes, it is correct, and I understand -- I have
15 been advised yesterday that when I'm coming back to home I have to make
16 official request back to Melbourne
17 mail to him here. I haven't tried to provide him with two last CDs
18 because I know that they can't reach him -- he is already here.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Have you brought them with you or are they in
20 Melbourne
21 MR. BEZBRADICA: I have it here, it is copies I have here with
22 me.
23 JUDGE PARKER: I would expect it would be practical for you to
24 make those available to Mr. Stanisic here so that you wouldn't have to
25 trouble about mailing them, and we would expect that the one that you
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1 have mailed that have not yet been received you will be able to ensure is
2 received by Mr. Stanisic.
3 The second limb of your question is for the future, what happens
4 about future disclosure to you. And I believe that will be resolved this
5 week by decisions about the future representations and conduct of
6 Mr. Stanisic's case. Because if it is the case that you do not continue
7 as counsel, if that's the outcome, there will be no point in any further
8 service made on you. It will be service on the newly appointed counsel
9 or whatever is the arrangement. Okay. So that problem should resolve
10 itself in the course of this week.
11 The -- I know this week you've been inconvenienced, Mr. Stanisic,
12 by coming to The Hague
13 release reordered. The Chamber will look at that, but we really need to
14 get resolved this representational issue; and if things are then back on
15 the rails we can look at the resumption of your provisional release. I
16 take it you see no problem with your health, do you, at the moment with
17 the trial continuing?
18 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] No.
19 JUDGE PARKER: You shook your head very firmly saying, No
20 problem; is that right?
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Problems with health is something I
22 fear most.
23 JUDGE PARKER: We share that problem.
24 Very well. Well, the Chamber will look forward to hearing from
25 you, Mr. Stanisic, progress in the consideration of this question of your
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1 representation, and we hope all of that can be finalised in the course of
2 this week.
3 Yes, Mr. Bezbradica.
4 MR. BEZBRADICA: I apologise, I made mistake, my departure time
5 tomorrow is 12.00 noon
6 JUDGE PARKER: I understood that, you're travelling probably
7 Singapore
8 MR. BEZBRADICA: Malaysia
9 JUDGE PARKER: Malaysia
10 Very well. Now, is there any other matter that you feel needs to
11 be raised, Ms. Richterova?
12 MS. RICHTEROVA: Thank you, Your Honour. There are no other
13 issues.
14 JUDGE PARKER: Yes.
15 Mr. Bezbradica.
16 MR. BEZBRADICA: Your Honour, you already mentioned that
17 Mr. Stanisic asked for his release from the detention, also from my side
18 I also filed my motion on the 2nd of May. Thank you.
19 JUDGE PARKER: Yes. They will be considered and dealt with.
20 Is there any other matter you want to bring up, Mr. Stanisic?
21 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Your Honour, except for putting in
22 additional effort to resolve this problem, I don't have anything else I
23 would like to raise right now.
24 JUDGE PARKER: Thank you, Mr. Stanisic.
25 Well, I hope that by the end of this week we'll have got
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1 everything resolved and the whole of the case back on track to be ready
2 for trial hopefully even by the end of July.
3 We will now adjourn. We would thank all parties for their
4 attendance and assistance today.
5 --- Whereupon the Status Conference
6 adjourned at 11.10 a.m.
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