Tribunal Criminal Tribunal for the Former Yugoslavia

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 1                           Thursday, 10 March 2011

 2                           [Open session]

 3                           [Status Conference]

 4                           [The appellants entered court]

 5                           --- Upon commencing at 2.57 p.m.

 6             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Good afternoon to everyone.  We are

 7     now in session.

 8             Madam Registrar, could you kindly call the case of the current

 9     hearing.

10             THE REGISTRAR:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  Good afternoon to

11     everyone in and around the courtroom.

12             This is case number IT-98-32/1-A, The Prosecutor versus

13     Milan Lukic and Sredoje Lukic.

14             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15             Mr. Milan Lukic, can you hear and follow the proceedings in a

16     language that you understand?

17             THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

18             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

19             Mr. Sredoje Lukic, can you understand the proceedings in a

20     language that you understand?

21             THE APPELLANT SREDOJE LUKIC: [Interpretation] Yes.

22             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

23             May I have may have the appearances, please, starting with the

24     OTP.  Please.

25             MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Good afternoon, Your Honour.

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 1     Virginie Monchy and Matthew Cross for the OTP, with Mrs. Lourdes Galicia,

 2     our case manager.

 3             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 4             I now turn to the Defence counsel for Mr. Milan Lukic.

 5             MR. IVETIC:  Good afternoon, Your Honour.  Dragan Ivetic,

 6     appearing on behalf of the Defence of Mr. Milan Lukic.  Thank you.

 7             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 8             Thank you.  And I now turn to the Defence counsel of

 9     Mr. Sredoje Lukic.

10             MR. CEPIC:  Good afternoon Your Honour.  On behalf of the

11     Sredoje Lukic Defence team, myself, Djuro Cepic as Defence counsel.  On

12     my left-hand side is my learned friend Mr. Jens Dieckmann, as co-counsel,

13     and behind me is our assistant, Jacob Nuebel.

14             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

15             This Status Conference was convened pursuant to Rule 65 bis (B)

16     and (C) of the Rules of Procedure and Evidence of the Tribunal which

17     requires that a Status Conference be convened within 120 days following

18     the filing of the notice of appeal and, thereafter, within 120 days after

19     the last Status Conference.

20             The main purpose of a Status Conference is to give any person in

21     custody pending appeal the possibility to raise issues in relation

22     thereto, including the physical and mental condition of that person.

23     This is our fifth Status Conference, as part of the appeals procedure, in

24     the -- in the present case.  The last Status Conference took place on the

25     11th of November, 2010.

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 1             I would like to recall the parties that the Appeals Chamber is

 2     still seized of four confidential motions submitted by Mr. Milan Lukic,

 3     in which he requests to be granted a possibility to introduce additional

 4     evidence in appeal.  I would also like to inform the parties that the

 5     Appeals Chamber will issue its decision on these motions before the

 6     appeals hearing.

 7             And, lastly, I am currently unable to give the parties a specific

 8     date for the appeals hearing.  Nevertheless, my aim is to be able to set

 9     a hearing date towards the end of the month of May 2011, whilst taking

10     into account the workload of the Appeals Chamber which has to manage ICTY

11     and ICTR cases.  I noted that the parties would like to be informed of

12     the date of the hearing date and of the questions put forward by the

13     Appeals Chamber at least six weeks in advance.  However, I note that the

14     hearing date has been somewhat postponed, which, in my view, gives extra

15     preparation time to the parties.  The Appeals Chamber will set officially

16     the hearing date in due time and will determine the time granted to each

17     party to present the submissions.

18             I would like to turn to Mr. Milan Lukic now, as well as to

19     Mr. Sredoje Lukic.  I would like to ask them to inform me about their

20     detention conditions and state of health.

21             First of all, I would turn to Mr. Milan Lukic.

22             Mr. Milan Lukic, do you wish to inform me about any particular

23     detention -- any particular concerns with regard to your detention or

24     state of health?

25             Mr. Milan Lukic.

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 1             THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you,

 2     Your Honour.

 3             As I don't know if I will be alive by the time I'm due to appear

 4     in the courtroom next time, I need to say a couple of really important

 5     things, by your leave.

 6             As for the personnel at the detention unit, everybody is acting

 7     properly.  There are two professionals.  I have not had a single problem

 8     in the last six years, and they have not had a single problem with me

 9     either.  However, I have received confirmed information that fascists

10     Branimir Savovic and Risto Perisic are preparing to get rid of me while

11     in detention unit.  They were the masters of life and death in Visegrad

12     during the war.  I appealed to this Court asking that they be arrested

13     since they are criminals without precedent in Bosnia-Herzegovina.

14     Savovic and Perisic acquired huge wealth by way of looting during the

15     war.  They have on their payroll service personnel, security personnel of

16     Bosnia and Herzegovina and Republika Srpska.

17             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Could you please slow down because

18     we cannot really follow you.

19             THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation]  Thank you.

20             I received information that my life is in danger from the

21     detainees who know personally Savovic and Perisic.  They used to know

22     them during the war as well.  During the war, Savovic and Perisic used to

23     work for security services and they continued to do that to this day.

24     The security services have them under their protection.  They are

25     currently residing in Serbia, in the town of Cacak.

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 1             To tell you straight away, I'm not afraid of dying.  I could have

 2     been killed during the war thousands of times.  I am a fighter.  I always

 3     fought for justice and truth.  The only battle I have before me now is to

 4     uncover the truth about the crimes committed in Visegrad against the

 5     innocent Muslim people.  There were various kidnappings in Severin.

 6     Lists were drawn of innocent persons, Muslims who need to be arrested or

 7     killed --

 8             THE INTERPRETER:  Microphone, please, Your Honour.

 9             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Mr. Milan Lukic, I'm sorry to

10     interrupt you, but you do know that this is a Status Conference which has

11     been convened in order for you to tell us about your detention conditions

12     or your state of health.  What you have just told us is not relevant for

13     this Status Conference, but could you please conclude without too much

14     delay.

15             THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation] I will continue so

16     that everybody can conclude what this is about.

17             There is evidence showing that the monsters Savovic and Perisic

18     organised the kidnapping of Muslims in Strpci and Severin.  There is

19     evidence showing that Muslims who had fled Visegrad during the war were

20     arrested on the beaches of Montenegro and sent back to the police station

21     in Visegrad.  There is evidence showing that criminal Savovic and Perisic

22     drew lists of Muslims who need be to arrested and killed so that they

23     could benefit themselves from it.  However, those same criminals

24     overnight turned coats and they became humanists accusing others of their

25     crimes so that innocent people, insignificant people are rotting away in

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 1     jails in Sarajevo and in The Hague while they, the actual criminals, are

 2     at liberty.

 3             I request that you order the Prosecution to ensure that these

 4     criminals stand trial, that they are arrested for the sake of the

 5     families of the victims.  We ask that subpoenas be issued --

 6             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] [Previous translation

 7     continues] ... would you please conclude now.

 8             THE APPELLANT MILAN LUKIC: [Interpretation]  Very well.

 9             I request -- I am telling you that my life is in danger.  I

10     request that they be arrested.  They are paying people for the killings.

11     They are paying people to keep silent about their names.  That is the

12     main thing.  My life is in danger.  They committed a lot of crimes in

13     Visegrad during the war, and they now live in Serbia.  They were masters

14     of life and death and they remain so now.  So the main message is that

15     the people who paid for murders to be committed be arrested.

16             I have received reliable information, while in detention, that

17     they are openly offering money for people to be killed.  Their goal --

18     and to poison me.  These are monsters.  I urge you to take all measures

19     to stop them from doing that.  You need to do that only until we learn

20     the truth.  Once we learn the truth, they can be left to do what they

21     want.

22             There is nothing else I need to tell you.

23             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Mr. Milan Lukic.

24             Of course, we all wish for you to be alive at the next

25     Status Conference and at the Status Conference afterwards.  Having said

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 1     that, I take note of the -- of your concerns, but I would like to remind

 2     to you, that pursuant to Articles 81, 80 and 81 of the rules of

 3     detention, you can always put forward a request or a grievance to the

 4     commander of the detention unit or to the Registrar.

 5             Having said this, the Appeals Chamber has been seized of

 6     a motion -- or, rather, of four motions.  A decision about these four

 7     motions will be delivered just before the appeals hearing.

 8             I now turn to Mr. Sredoje Lukic.  Do you wish to inform me about

 9     any particular concerns with regard to your detention or your state of

10     health?

11             THE APPELLANT SREDOJE LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you for

12     allowing me to speak, Your Honours.  Everything is fine.  It has been so

13     far.  I have nothing new to report.

14             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

15             And, lastly, I would like to ask the parties if they have at this

16     juncture any issues which they would like to raise as we sit in this

17     Status Conference.  Starting with the Office of the Prosecutor.

18             MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Your Honour.

19             Very briefly, I would like to tell you that the OTP would like to

20     talk about the disclosing of any element or any point regarding

21     Article 98 bis [as interpreted].  I would like to say that we have

22     recently discovered new details about the death of four [as interpreted]

23     victims.  This information have been disclosed to us according to Article

24     70 of the Rules of Procedure, and, therefore, we cannot communicate this

25     to the Defence counsel before asking permission to the body who -- that

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 1     give us -- that has given us this information.  We have requested this to

 2     this body, and we have asked them to deal with this matter as a very

 3     urgent matter.  Obviously, we will keep the Defence informed as soon as

 4     we get an answer from them.

 5             In any case, the OTP is confident that the disclosure procedure of

 6     potential exculpatory material will be completed before the appeals hearing.

 7             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.  I take note of the

 8     information that you have just given us and I take note of the fact that

 9     you have -- you will give us information about this communication before

10     the appeals hearing.

11             Having said that, I would like to know if the Defence counsel of

12     Mr. Milan Lukic wish to tell us anything.

13             MR. IVETIC:  Your Honour, at this time, we have nothing further

14     to raise before the Pre-Appeals Chamber.  Thank you.

15             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.

16             As far as I'm concerned, I have no other questions to raise.

17                           [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]

18             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I'm so sorry.  I'm so sorry.  I now

19     turn to Mr. Sredoje Lukic, or, rather to the Defence counsel for

20     Mr. Sredoje Lukic.

21             Do you wish to inform us of anything?  Do you have any question

22     to raise at this juncture?

23             MR. CEPIC:  [Microphone not activated] ... for this opportunity.

24     Just for the record that we stay on our position for the oral

25     presentation by Professor Knoops [phoen] which is authorised by

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 1     Scheduling Order from 21st of July, 2010.  Thank you very much.

 2             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you.

 3             As far as I'm concerned, I have no other questions to raise.

 4             MS. MONCHY: [Interpretation] Your Honour, just a slight

 5     correction to the English transcript, if I might, we're just looking for

 6     the specific line.  It was said that it was about the death of four

 7     victims, but I said that we had new information about the death of six

 8     victims.

 9             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] Thank you, Ms. Monchy.  We took

10     note of your correction and the transcript will be duly corrected.

11             As I was saying, I have no other questions to raise, and I

12     believe that we can now adjourn for today.  I would like to thank the

13     parties for their participation --

14                           [Trial Chamber and Legal Officer confer]

15             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] You have the floor.

16             MR. CEPIC:  Thank you very much, Your Honour.

17             Problem is another mistake in transcript, page 7, line 19.  My

18     learned friend from OTP mentioned the Rule 98 bis regarding to those

19     victims, so probably I'm not quite confident that it has to be in

20     accordance with the truth.

21             Thank you.

22             MS. MONCHY:  Well, I don't know which line you refer to, but that

23     should have been Rule 68.  Yes.  Thank you.

24             JUDGE GUNEY: [Interpretation] I have no other questions to raise,

25     so I believe that we can now adjourn for today.

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 1             I would like to thank the parties for their participation, and I

 2     would also like to thank the staff of the Tribunal for helping us in

 3     organising this Status Conference.

 4             The hearing is adjourned.

 5                           --- Whereupon the Status Conference adjourned

 6                           at 3.20 p.m.