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1 Thursday, 21st January, 1999
2 (Further Appearance)
3 (Open session)
4 --- Upon commencing at 3.04 p.m.
5 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let the Registrar call the
6 case.
7 THE REGISTRAR: Good afternoon, Your
8 Honours. Case number IT-95-9-PT, the Prosecutor versus
9 Blagoje Simic, Milan Simic, Miroslav Tadic, Stevan
10 Todorovic and Simo Zaric.
11 JUDGE MAY: The appearances?
12 MS. PATERSON: Yes, Mr. President. My name
13 is Nancy Paterson. I am appearing for the Office of
14 the Prosecutor. Unfortunately the senior trial
15 attorney assigned to this case, Anne Haslund, is out
16 ill today, and hopefully she will be able to join us
17 for the next appearance. With me is our case manager,
18 Carmela Annink-Janvier, and I will let my colleague
19 introduce herself.
20 MS. MacFADYEN: I am Mary MacFadyen appearing
21 for the Office of the Prosecutor. I will be replacing
22 John Michelich on the record.
23 JUDGE MAY: Yes. For the Defence, beginning
24 with counsel for Milan Simic, I think.
25 MR. AVRAMOVIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour,
Page 300
1 my name is Branislav Avramovic, Defence counsel for
2 Mr. Milan Simic.
3 JUDGE MAY: It should be noted that, of
4 course, Mr. Simic is not here with the leave of the
5 Trial Chamber.
6 Yes? Mr. Pantelic, I think you're next.
7 MR. PANTELIC: Your Honours, I am Igor
8 Pantelic, Defence counsel acting on behalf of
9 Mr. Miroslav Tadic.
10 JUDGE MAY: For Mr. Todorovic?
11 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
12 Microphone, please.
13 JUDGE MAY: Could you say it again, please,
14 with the microphone on?
15 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone is still not on.
16 MR. BRASHICH: I'll do it a third time, Your
17 Honour. My name is Deyan Brashich, and I appear on
18 behalf of Mr. Stevan Todorovic.
19 JUDGE MAY: Yes? And if you would like to
20 introduce yourself.
21 MR. PISAREVIC: (Interpretation) My name is
22 Borislav Pisarevic, Defence counsel for the accused
23 Mr. Simo Zaric. Thank you.
24 JUDGE MAY: Turning to the accused, I want to
25 ensure that they can all hear what is being said in a
Page 301
1 language which they understand. First of all,
2 Mr. Tadic, can you hear?
3 THE ACCUSED TADIC: (Interpretation) Yes.
4 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. Mr. Todorovic?
5 THE INTERPRETER: The microphones are not
6 switched on. We apologise.
7 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Yes,
8 I hear. I understand you, Your Honour.
9 JUDGE MAY: And Mr. Zaric?
10 THE ACCUSED ZARIC: (Interpretation) I hear
11 you, Mr. President.
12 JUDGE MAY: Thank you. The first part of
13 this hearing is concerned with a further appearance in
14 the case of Stevan Todorovic in order to plead to
15 counts in a second amended indictment to which he has
16 not yet pleaded. There are various preliminary matters
17 which I must deal with, and they concern, if I may
18 address Defence counsel, Mr. Brashich, just these
19 matters. First of all, can you confirm that the
20 accused has had a copy of the indictment in a language
21 which he understands, and you have had the opportunity
22 of going through it with him?
23 MR. BRASHICH: I can confirm that, Your
24 Honour, that he has had a copy in the Serbian language
25 and that I have conferred with him with regard to the
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1 first amendment.
2 With regard to the superseding amendment, I
3 was under court order to take depositions in Belgrade
4 and in Rome, and I arrived only this morning from New
5 York, and I have not been able to go through the
6 superseding indictment with him.
7 JUDGE MAY: Well, since the purpose of this
8 hearing is for him to plead to the various counts, is
9 there any reason why he shouldn't enter a plea today?
10 MR. BRASHICH: No, Your Honour.
11 JUDGE MAY: He's in a position to do that and
12 he understands the counts?
13 MR. BRASHICH: Yes, Your Honour. I have
14 discussed the charges against him, and we are prepared
15 to enter a plea of not guilty at this particular time.
16 JUDGE MAY: Finally, he does have the right
17 to have the indictment read to him, but he can waive
18 that right.
19 MR. BRASHICH: On behalf of my client, so
20 waived, Mr. President.
21 JUDGE MAY: Thank you, Mr. Brashich.
22 Mr. Todorovic, would you stand, please?
23 You have heard what your counsel said and you
24 are prepared, are you, today to enter pleas to this
25 indictment?
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1 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Yes.
2 JUDGE MAY: Very well. I will read out the
3 counts to you, the new counts, and will you reply in
4 each case guilty or not guilty?
5 Count 1, persecutions on political, racial,
6 and religious grounds, a crime against humanity,
7 punishable under Article 5(h) of the Statute of the
8 Tribunal.
9 How do you plead?
10 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
11 guilty.
12 JUDGE MAY: Count 2, deportation, a crime
13 against humanity, punishable under Article 5(d) of the
14 Statute. How do you plead?
15 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
16 guilty.
17 JUDGE MAY: Count 3, unlawful deportation or
18 transfer, a grave breach of the Geneva Conventions of
19 1949, punishable under Article 22(g) of the Statute.
20 How do you plead?
21 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
22 guilty.
23 JUDGE MAY: Count 13, inhumane acts, a crime
24 against humanity punishable under Article 5(i) of the
25 Statute. How do you plead?
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1 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
2 guilty.
3 JUDGE MAY: Count 14 --
4 MS. PATERSON: Mr. President, if I may
5 interrupt? Are you skipping Count 4 or are you going
6 out of order? Count 4 and 5 and 6 of the indictment
7 apply to Mr. Todorovic.
8 JUDGE MAY: No, they've already been put.
9 MS. PATERSON: Thank you.
10 JUDGE MAY: Count 14, cruel treatment, a
11 violation of the laws or customs of war punishable
12 under Article 3 of the Statute and recognised by
13 Article 3(1)(a) of the Geneva Conventions. How do you
14 plead.
15 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
16 guilty.
17 JUDGE MAY: Count 15, wilfully causing great
18 suffering, a grave breach punishable under Article 2(c)
19 of the Statute. How do you plead?
20 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
21 guilty.
22 JUDGE MAY: Rape, including other forms of
23 sexual assault, a crime against humanity punishable
24 under Article 5(g) of the Statute. How do you plead?
25 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
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1 guilty.
2 JUDGE MAY: Count 20, humiliating and
3 degrading treatment, a violation of the laws or customs
4 of war punishable under Article 3 of the Statute of the
5 Tribunal and recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the
6 Geneva Conventions. How do you plead?
7 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
8 guilty.
9 JUDGE MAY: Count 21, torture or inhumane
10 treatment, a grave breach punishable under Article 2(b)
11 of the Statute. How do you plead?
12 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
13 guilty.
14 JUDGE MAY: Rape -- Count 22, I should say,
15 rape, including other forms of sexual assault, a crime
16 against humanity punishable under Article 5(g) of the
17 Statute. How do you plead?
18 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
19 guilty.
20 JUDGE MAY: Count 23, humiliating and
21 degrading treatment, a violation of the laws or customs
22 of war punishable under Article 3 of the Statute and
23 recognised by Article 3(1)(c) of the Geneva
24 Conventions. How do you plead?
25 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
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1 guilty.
2 JUDGE MAY: Count 24, torture or inhumane
3 treatment, a grave breach punishable under Article 2(b)
4 of the Statute. How do you plead?
5 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation) Not
6 guilty.
7 JUDGE MAY: If you would sit down?
8 THE ACCUSED TODOROVIC: (Interpretation)
9 Thank you.
10 JUDGE MAY: Ms. Paterson, we had in mind that
11 there are various other matters to be settled. There
12 are a number of motions which have been filed. There
13 are also matters concerned with the timetabling of this
14 case. It may be more appropriate to deal with all
15 those matters by way of a Status Conference.
16 MS. PATERSON: Whatever is your preference,
17 Your Honour. We are prepared to discuss all those
18 issues today.
19 JUDGE MAY: Yes. Let me turn to the
20 Defence. Those are the issues we have to deal with,
21 timetabling motions and also timetabling the case
22 insofar as we can. Are there any submissions as to why
23 we shouldn't do that in a Status Conference? Does
24 anybody want to raise anything?
25 MR. BRASHICH: No objections on behalf of the
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1 Defendant Todorovic, Your Honour.
2 MR. AVRAMOVIC: (Interpretation) Your Honour,
3 we stand guided by your decision.
4 MR. PANTELIC: Your Honours, it's fine with
5 me.
6 JUDGE MAY: Very well. The Chamber will go
7 into a Status Conference.
8 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at
9 3.20 p.m., to be followed by a
10 Status Conference
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