1 Thursday, 29 August 2002

2 [Open session]

3 [The accused entered court]

4 [The witness entered court]

5 --- Upon commencing at 9.40 a.m.

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Very good morning to everybody. May we first

7 hear the case?

8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning. This is case number IT-97-24-T, the

9 Prosecutor versus Milomir Stakic.

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And may we hear the appearances of day 65?

11 MR. WAIDYARATNE: Thank you, Your Honour, good morning to you.

12 Kapila Waidyaratne with my colleagues Nicholas Koumjian and Ruth Karper

13 appearing for the Prosecutor.

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And for the Defence, please?

15 MR. LUKIC: Good morning, Your Honours, Branko Lukic, John Ostojic

16 and Danilo Cirkovic for the Defence.

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask you, please, to proceed with the

18 cross-examination?

19 WITNESS: JUSUF ARIFAGIC [Resumed]

20 [Witness answered through interpreter]

21 Cross-examined by Mr. Lukic: [Continued]

22 MR. LUKIC:

23 Q. [Interpretation] Good morning.

24 A. Good morning.

25 Q. Did you get enough rest?

1 A. Yes, a little.

2 Q. I will not take long today. We just have several minor points to

3 clarify, and then I will, in a manner of speaking, hand you over to the

4 Trial Chamber.

5 Did you have the impression that the preparations that were taking

6 place in Kozarac to defend Kozarac were part of a wider plan?

7 A. I had no such impression. In Kozarac there could not have been

8 any wider plan. Everybody was about Kozarac itself because Kozarac was

9 not physically connected with a wider area.

10 Q. Do you know whether, in the meetings held in Kozarac, persons from

11 other regions also participated? Such as Kemal Alagic, nicknamed

12 Divljak?

13 A. No, I'm not familiar with anything like that.

14 Q. Do you know that Kemal Alagic, also known as Divljak, with his

15 group, took part in an attempt to take Kozarac back?

16 A. No.

17 Q. Were you aware of the decision of the Presidency of the Republic

18 of Bosnia-Herzegovina reported by the Minister of the Interior, Alija

19 Delimustafic, and sent by him to all public security centres and public

20 security stations to put up roadblocks on all roads throughout Bosnia and

21 Herzegovina, which the JNA were using to evacuate the military and

22 technical equipment?

23 A. I did not know that. First thing I hear of it.

24 Q. Now, I would like to ask you something about your father. The

25 certificate he was issued by the civilian authorities, that he could move

1 about freely after he had been released from one of the camps, you say

2 that when he showed this certificate to the soldiers, they told him in a

3 rude way that they would not recognise that certificate.

4 A. Yes. Actually that was a certificate he had obtained from the

5 Serbian Red Cross in Trnopolje and that certificate only permitted him to

6 go with his family to the next village and that he could continue to live

7 at my grandfather's place, my mother's father's place. When the soldiers

8 knocked at his door, he produced the certificate hoping that he would

9 thereby prove that he was -- that he had been legally released from the

10 camp but they just cut the certificate up, they tore it up, and they took

11 him away.

12 Q. Do you know whether Sead Cirkin, ex-JNA captain, is still alive

13 today?

14 A. Yes, he is.

15 Q. You did see him in the Keraterm camp during your detention there,

16 didn't you?

17 A. Yes, I did.

18 Q. During your stay in Kozarac prior to the breakout of the conflict,

19 were you familiar with the existence of such groups as Kole's group or

20 Ramiz's group?

21 A. I used to know both Kole and Ramiz, not very well but I did not

22 know anything about any groups related to them. Those were not people I

23 was spending much of my time with.

24 Q. Did you not by any chance hear from other people that they were

25 organising military groups?

1 A. I used to see Kole in Kozarac during that period but whether he

2 was organising any groups, I couldn't tell. There are always people whom

3 one decides to spend more time with than other people one just knows but

4 does not spend much time with.

5 Q. Thank you. Were you a member of the Territorial Defence of

6 Kozarac?

7 A. If you're referring to the period after the general call-up by the

8 government in Sarajevo, and the mobilisation, well, yes, in that case, I

9 did it take part as a citizen who tried to protect his family. But I was

10 not a member of any uniformed unit wearing any sort of insignia or

11 anything like that.

12 Q. Did you sign up to become a member of the Kozarac TO?

13 A. No, I didn't.

14 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could the usher please show the

15 witness the document marked as D11? And to show him page A/1/90?

16 Q. On the ELMO, you can see a page which is part of a document

17 listing all members of the Kozarac TO. Under number 92, we can see the

18 name Jusuf Arifagic. I would now like to ask the usher to please show the

19 witness the statement given by him on the 21st and 22nd October, 1994, to

20 the investigators of the Tribunal. This is your own statement from 1994.

21 It's in English, and what we need this statement for now is for you to

22 tell us whether, at the bottom of the page, there is your signature?

23 A. Yes, that is my signature.

24 Q. Do you also recognise the signature next to the name Jusuf

25 Arifagic under number 92 as your own signature also?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. Can you now recall the fact that in fact you signed up to become a

3 member of the TO?

4 A. For us, this had nothing to do with membership of the TO. This

5 was just a list of persons who took part in the guard duty around Kozarac.

6 So this is not a full list of TO members. This is a different thing. I

7 know that I signed down on a list containing the names of people who stood

8 guard around Kozarac. In any sense of active service, wearing uniform,

9 commanding or anything like that, I was not a member of the TO.

10 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Could the usher please put the

11 document D11 back on the ELMO? And could you just pull it up a bit higher

12 so that we can see the stamp?

13 Q. The bottom of the page, there is typewritten "the TO staff of

14 Kozarac".

15 A. No. I think when these lists were drawn up, we just signed. I

16 don't think they were even typewritten. I know that lists of people were

17 made who would stand guard around Kozarac. This TO and the rest, when it

18 was added I really don't know.

19 Q. You say you signed this without the names being typewritten?

20 A. Yes, I think that's possible. We just put our name down as people

21 who would stand guard around Kozarac. What was done with these lists

22 later on --

23 Q. Doesn't it seem obvious to you that first the names were

24 typewritten and then the lines were drawn because the lines were added

25 after the names had been typewritten obviously?

1 A. That sounds possible.

2 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] Thank you, usher, we no longer require

3 this document.

4 May I just have a moment, please?

5 Q. When the attack began on the 24th of May, 1992, the attack against

6 the guard post at which you were, we explained yesterday how you gave

7 instructions to the people there to shoot in pairs, two by two. However,

8 I forgot to ask you -- you then continued and that's on page 6, paragraph

9 4, of your statement from 1994, B/C/S version, in the English version page

10 6, paragraph 6, the last two sentences: "This continued for about ten to

11 15 minutes. The Serbs at our defence line then withdrew into Balte

12 proper." Does this mean that, at first, you were able to repulse the

13 attack by the Serb army?

14 A. This may be a mistranslation. There was no attack and thee was no

15 combat there, but I think this needs to be connected with the fighting in

16 Jakupovici because after the attack began, the attacks which were coming

17 from Balte and Jankovici, we were told that we had enough time to evacuate

18 and that area was about to fall and people were starting to withdraw

19 towards the centre of Kozarac so that's what the whole situation was

20 about.

21 Q. So you were able to hold them at bay for a while and even repulse

22 them back?

23 A. Actually we were not holding them at bay. We had just opened fire

24 and we simulated the firing, the attack. We thought that they would

25 perhaps withdraw. This turned out to be true, and the people in Kamicani,

1 for instance, the civilians there, had enough time to withdraw towards the

2 centre of Kozarac.

3 Q. Thank you. On page 6, paragraph 6 of the B/C/S version of your

4 statement, given the same year, or page 6, paragraph 8 of the English

5 version of this statement, you make mention of a motel or a hospital in

6 the forest by which you passed on the 26th of May, 1992, about noon, with

7 the intention to contact Captain Cirkin. Do you know by any chance when

8 this motel was converted into a hospital? When did this become a

9 makeshift hospital?

10 A. It was never converted into a hospital. It was simply a facility

11 which was away from Kozarac in the direction of Mrakovica, not far from

12 the last village in the outskirts of Kozarac. It was located towards the

13 forest. It was not actually finished and the people who were wounded were

14 taken there. Also, the patients from the local hospital, the health

15 centre in Kozarac, they were transferred there, together with the

16 equipment that they were able to take from the hospital. It was never

17 really converted into a hospital. It was not possible to receive any kind

18 of proper treatment there.

19 Q. Do you know when the medical supplies were initially taken to this

20 facility with the purpose of using them there?

21 A. No.

22 Q. When Captain Cirkin issued his order to the person manning the

23 checkpoint that he should let the tanks come close enough so that they

24 could destroy them with zoljas, is it true that prior to that, he had said

25 that things should finally start, that there can no longer be any

1 stalling?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. Let us try to clear up one more issue concerning Keraterm and I

4 will try to complete my cross-examination after that. I am referring to

5 the night of the massacre in Room 3 in Keraterm. Do you know whose shift

6 was on duty on that night?

7 A. According to my knowledge, it was Kole's shift.

8 Q. Did Simo Drljaca arrive after the first day or the second day?

9 A. I believe it was after the second massacre.

10 Q. How long were the shifts in Keraterm, if you know?

11 A. I think that they lasted 12 hours. They would start in the

12 morning and last until the evening and then there would be the following

13 shift starting in the evening and until the morning. We were not familiar

14 with the way it worked and how the guards were rotated.

15 Q. Do you know whose shift was on duty on the second night, the night

16 of the second massacre?

17 A. I don't remember.

18 Q. Just one more thing. In your statement you said that when you

19 were transferred, when you were taken to the Prijedor hospital from

20 Keraterm after you had been badly beaten, you were admitted and treated by

21 a Bosniak doctor. Do you know what his name is?

22 A. No. I just stated in my statement that on the way to hospital, we

23 encountered a doctor of Bosniak ethnicity. We talked briefly and then he

24 left. After that, we were taken to the surgery department, at least I

25 think it was the surgery department. I was taken care of by a nurse. She

1 helped me as much as she was able to help me, and we also briefly spoke to

2 another doctor who worked in this hospital.

3 Q. Do you know his name?

4 A. No, I don't know his name. It happened at the entrance to the

5 hospital, in the corridor. It was a very brief conversation. He didn't

6 dare talk to us very long, and we continued on our way after this

7 conversation.

8 Q. Thank you very much for having answered my questions. I wish you

9 all the best in the future, wherever you may be.

10 A. Thank you, too.

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. I have to come back to about five

12 issues where some clarity still is needed.

13 Questioned by the Court:

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I beg your pardon already in advance if I missed

15 something during your statement. I recollect that on page 47 of your

16 statement, you described the story of your father being brought to the

17 camp, first to Trnopolje, then to Keraterm, and then page 47, this story

18 ends at line 19, when you confirmed that your father was retransferred to

19 the Trnopolje camp again. Could you please tell us about the fate of your

20 father after this retransfer to Trnopolje?

21 A. After this retransfer to Trnopolje, as he was leaving Trnopolje,

22 and this is the reason maybe why I need to give you a longer explanation,

23 this was actually the departure between a father and a son, he didn't know

24 where he would go. He didn't know about the fate of his other son, and I

25 wanted to tell him that if -- that he should try and find my wife and my

1 children once he reaches the free territory, which is what he did. And

2 after he arrived in Slovenia as a refugee, he underwent a surgery which he

3 had to undergo as a result of the beating he had sustained in the camp.

4 It was a surgery in the nose area. It didn't really work well so he had

5 to do another one. He's not a very healthy person. If the weather is

6 bad, his health condition is such that he experiences severe problems.

7 The doctors told him that he should install an alarm at home in case he

8 runs out of breath or has any problems. But we, his children, are trying

9 to do our best to take care of him. But he is a disabled person.

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. A second issue is related to

11 Keraterm. In your testimony of 1994, page 22, first paragraph, I quote a

12 full paragraph. You said the following: "I remember about two nights

13 after the second shooting in Room 3, Kajin came to the front of room 2 and

14 was standing squeezing the bars with his hands. He was drunk and he was

15 crying. He told us that the shootings had been in retaliation for what

16 occurred in World War II. He also told us that one or two Serb soldiers

17 were killed in Hambarine and that was another reason for the shootings.

18 He told us that he did not agree with Chetnik politics, he had lost many

19 of his friends and he then threw his pistol away. A number of guards then

20 came and took him away." The first question is: Is this also your

21 testimony of today?

22 A. Yes. That's exactly what he said. And this is what I emphasised

23 in my previous testimony and in my statement. He did not wish to torture

24 people. He was in favour of fair trials. I don't know why I remember

25 this to this date. I liked him for that. I liked what he said, because

1 of all the torture that he had sustained and this is exactly what he said.

2 I have reported his exact words. He was drunk. He was crying. And the

3 large number of people in Room 3 were people whom he knew very well. The

4 guard who came and tried to take him away didn't manage to. He continued

5 talking and eventually he discarded his pistol and was finally taken away

6 by others. I think that many people in room 1 were also able to hear

7 this. It was not very far from them as well. Those were his word.

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Did you meet Mr. Kajin later?

9 A. Later, during my detention, of course, we saw him from time to

10 time in the camp.

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: In the years after your detention in the camp,

12 did you ever meet him again?

13 A. Here, in the courtroom. First time after my detention in the

14 camp, and his service there as a guard, we met him -- I met him here for

15 the first time in a proceedings against him.

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Thank you for this additional

17 confirmation. Then I have to turn to the question of the helicopters

18 coming in. It's a twofold question. In your testimony of 1994, page 3,

19 last paragraph and page 4, first paragraph, you stated the following: "On

20 one occasion, I saw a helicopter land in Balte. Balte is about one

21 kilometre from my home. I cannot recall the date but it was between 10

22 p.m. and 11 p.m. I first heard the helicopter and then I saw it in the

23 air and shortly after, saw it landing near the house of Duro Kozomara, a

24 Serb." Is this correct?

25 A. Yes.

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1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: "He was active in the SDS but I'm unaware what

2 function he held. I heard the engine being cut. I did not pay any more

3 attention to the helicopter. This was the only occasion I saw a

4 helicopter in Balte." Is this correct?

5 A. Yes.

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And then let's turn to -- I'm afraid the

7 question was still open after the examination and the cross-examination --

8 page 3, second-last paragraph, you stated in 1994, "In February or March,

9 1992, I saw and heard helicopters in the air during the night around

10 Kozarac. It was very rare for helicopters to be in this area during the

11 night. I heard the helicopters on almost nightly basis. I never saw a

12 helicopter land in Kozarac but it is my belief that they landed in Serb

13 villages surrounding Kozarac. I did not see any emblems on the

14 helicopters and I am unable to say for what they were being used." This

15 is your written statement in English. Please understand that I have to

16 ask you how do you yourself regard it as possible that during your

17 testimony yesterday, you were able to tell us that in these helicopters,

18 there were weapons and weapons were unloaded? Yes, please, first of all

19 try yourself to find an explanation for this distinction.

20 A. There are two aspects of the issue. There were frequent flights

21 of helicopters in this area. The military activity generally speaking had

22 intensified and then in the second part of this portion of my statement, I

23 was referring to a helicopter that I saw landing in the village of Balte.

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right. But wouldn't you agree that it would be

25 normal that if you saw, indeed, that in the helicopters there were weapons

1 and weapons were unloaded, that at that time you would have mentioned this

2 instead of saying, in general that you are unable to say for what they

3 were being used?

4 A. I never said that I had directly seen weapons being unloaded. In

5 order to reach the village of Balte, you have to pass through the entire

6 town of Kozarac and Muslim villages. No one ever observed any convoy of

7 vehicles or trucks carrying weapons in the direction of Balte. However,

8 when the attack on Kozarac started from the direction of the village of

9 Balte, the fire that was opened was mortar fire and fire opened from

10 various kinds of infantry weapons which means that those weapons could

11 reach Balte only by helicopter, not by land, and in my statement that I

12 gave after the war, I said that those helicopters had brought the weapons

13 in Balte and had armed the population, the Serb population in Balte,

14 including the one that I saw.

15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this. And then finally, I'm fully

16 aware that already yesterday the Prosecutor asked you several times about

17 names of persons being responsible in the area of Kozarac, Prijedor, and

18 you mentioned names of Mr. Drljaca, Kovacevic and others. Now to start

19 the other way around, just to be quite clear and on the safe side, for the

20 transcript, did you ever before the 30th of April or later in 1992, have

21 heard the name of Dr. Stakic, being in his capacity of a physician or in

22 another capacity?

23 A. I don't think so.

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Any other questions? Judge Fassi

25 Fihri? Judge Vassylenko? No, are there any additional questions

1 emanating from this line of questions of the judges or any questions by

2 the OTP?

3 MR. WAIDYARATNE: No, Your Honour.

4 MR. LUKIC: [Interpretation] No, Your Honour.

5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This is not the case. Then I have to thank you

6 for all your efforts, not only for coming here, for also answering our

7 questions patiently and it's also for the judges to wish you all the best

8 and to try to overcome as soon as, and as far as it is possible, that what

9 you have experienced at that time, and we all hope that this can be one

10 small brick in the wall building up a better and safer society in your

11 home country. Thank you. You are excused finally for this case.

12 THE WITNESS: [Interpretation] Thank you too, Your Honours.

13 [The witness withdrew]

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: If I remember correctly, the Office of the

15 Prosecutor has offered us now a video.

16 MR. KOUMJIAN: I promised that, but it turns out that the video,

17 the -- in order to get a good quality of those 15 minutes to get copies

18 for the Court, it will not be ready today. Possibly this afternoon. As I

19 mentioned to the legal officer this morning, we have some severe

20 scheduling problems I'd like to discuss with both the Defence and the

21 court, particularly regarding the translations of expert reports and I

22 would request a conference on that.

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This request for a 65 ter conference.

24 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, also Mr. Inayat, we can address this

25 at the conference but while he's here and is available and we have the

1 lists available that he can testify to the sourcing, ideally, it was my

2 intent to have one document prepared covering all of the exhibits, rather

3 than the six lists which also do not cover, I think, a few documents that

4 were obtained from witnesses outside of the lists but that would not be

5 ready today. So we can discuss it at the conference what would be the

6 best time for him to testify. He's available to testify today but we have

7 problems next week also with getting witnesses, which I will explain to

8 you. We may have holes in the schedule next week.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: No good news but let's face the problem

10 immediately. What is the most appropriate to have the 65 ter conference

11 in this courtroom? Can you agree with this?

12 MR. KOUMJIAN: My preference would be to do it in chambers, and

13 also the Defence. I think the informality would aid the resolution of

14 some of the issues and I also would like to have, ask one investigator to

15 be present who has been doing the scheduling of witnesses and she can

16 explain, and I'd also rather not do that publicly. She can explain some

17 of the problems various witnesses have in altering their schedule. One of

18 the problems is that at the end of the case we are very, very limited in

19 our choices of our witnesses and those remaining generally have scheduling

20 problems.

21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Fine. How can we then proceed? Could we meet

22 in my office at 11.00 sharp and I would ask for the presence of two French

23 interpreters, because, no doubt, it will take us longer than half an hour.

24 But then we should try to use -- to make use of the afternoon, and let's

25 try to do as if it would be an ordinary day. This would mean that we

1 could restart at 2.00. I am myself surprised by this development,

2 therefore I would ask all the other participants, also the interpreters to

3 protest immediately if there are some obstacles when we restart, say, at

4 2.00 and then proceed until 4.30 or 5.00. I think we have numerous

5 problems we can resolve only in courtroom. It's difficult to look through

6 the glass. Okay? I can see no open protest.

7 THE INTERPRETER: English interpretation says okay.

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Okay. Thank you. Then let's proceed this way.

9 11.00 sharp in my office, as a formal 65 ter meeting in the presence of

10 the representative of the Registry and then the trial stays, as such,

11 stays adjourned until 2.00 sharp.

12 --- Break taken at 10.30 a.m.

13 --- On resuming at 2.05 p.m.

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: It's a long time ago. I think it was the 1st of

15 August, 2002, Witness Sivac gave us the entire video, and it is ready to

16 be played now?

17 MR. KOUMJIAN: Correct. But just for clarification, 15 minutes of

18 the videotape that Mr. Sivac gave us has been copied. As you recall,

19 there was a tape of a trip of a group and other matters that were

20 extraneous with the 15 minutes relevant to events in Prijedor is prepared.

21 I guess the booth has a copy. I'm tendering now the copies for the Court

22 and Defence. And for the record, that's ERN number V0004001.

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Did we attach it already to the one minute and

24 eight seconds an exhibit number?

25 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes.

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Shouldn't we maintain the same exhibit number

2 for the entire video or put a -1 to it?

3 MR. KOUMJIAN: That would make sense. Also this transcript and

4 video includes the minute and ten seconds or so of the accused speaking.

5 So we could substitute it or we could simply attach it an additional

6 number.

7 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. I think it's appropriate to give to the

8 video as such -1, and to the transcript -2.

9 Can we start the video?

10 [Videotape played]

11 THE INTERPRETER: [Voiceover]

12 "REPORTER: People from the Hambarine settlement located five

13 kilometres in the direction of Ljubija held up a vehicle with the Serbian

14 Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina army members. They killed two soldiers and

15 injured four. Rade Lukic and Radovan Milojica were killed and Ratko

16 Milojica and Sinisa Mijatovic were severely injured. The police were

17 prevented from pulling out the dead and injured and the army was forced to

18 open fire without destroying any facilities.

19 SINISA MIJATOVIC: I was sitting with another four comrades of

20 mine at the back seat of the vehicle. Then they cocked the rifle, which

21 he took from them and it fired. Then they opened fire at us from all

22 sides. The slaughter started. Ratko and I somehow managed to get out of

23 the vehicle. I sustained a number of injuries in the arms, legs, and

24 stomach area. Then I was lying behind the car, fearing that the car would

25 explode. They couldn't see that those two were dead, the dead bodies

1 there. They left towards (inaudible) report.

2 REPORTER: Who was firing at you.

3 SINISA MIJATOVIC: The so-called TO of that place was firing. They

4 were mostly Muslims, my school friends.

5 REPORTER: The Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality requested the

6 people from Hambarine to surrender former policeman Aziz Aliskovic and his

7 group, who carried out the attack on soldiers. The twelve o'clock

8 deadline was not observed. Half an hour after the deadline expired the

9 army of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina launched an artillery

10 attack on Hambarine and cleaned up the area where the Green Berets had

11 been concentrated. The militant wing of the Party for Democratic Action

12 obviously did not wish to preserve peace in Prijedor.

13 SIMO MISKOVIC: There had been interparty agreements prior to this

14 incident and in all talks that were conducted between the SDS and the SDA,

15 the SDS mainly sent a strong message to all party leaderships in the

16 Prijedor municipality reminding them of their obligation and

17 responsibility to take care primarily of this town, these people, and not

18 to leave our children and the descendants with the traumas that were left

19 by our parents. However, the militant wing of the SDA most probably

20 didn't wish this to be implemented and it most likely had its own plans,

21 goals to realise and ambitions that had been realised in Sarajevo, Mostar,

22 Kupres, and so on. They also cautioned that this would not happen in the

23 area of Prijedor, but we have used all possible means, through talks, both

24 party talks and talks with people and prominent citizens, delegations were

25 coming two days before this incident or this conflict. A great number of

1 talks were held in all areas, with Muslim population, with the goal of

2 securing peace in this region and preventing any sort of conflict from

3 breaking out, regardless of solutions which will definitely come about at

4 the level of this local commune.

5 REPORTER: Sunday, May 24th. The reason -- reason has prevailed

6 in many local communes of Prijedor municipality. People are returning

7 illegally acquired weapons, either individually or in an organised manner.

8 The local communes of Donja Puharska, Rizvanovici, Biscani and the village

9 of Rakovcani can confirm this.

10 HAMZA KAPETANOVIC: We are talking about some 4 machine-guns. 50

11 per cent of the 49 barrels we have are automatic weapons. Those weapons

12 used to belong to the TO and the reserve police force and part of them was

13 acquired by citizens on an individual basis. We were informed today at

14 10.30 that these weapons ought to be returned to the barracks by 12.00 but

15 the deadline was extended to 1.00 and we collected everything and brought

16 it there. People brought them to the local commune and we brought them

17 here. Ever since this citizens' forum was established in Donja Puharska,

18 after the takeover of power, we have been doing everything in cooperation

19 with the local commune. We haven't done anything. We have even recently

20 kept guard together so nobody is missing a hair in Donja Puharska or in

21 the settlement with Serbian population which is bordering on ours with

22 predominantly Muslim population.

23 DZEVAD KADIRIC: We are in the local commune of Biscani. I am

24 Dzevad Kadiric.

25 REPORTER: I can see you are wearing a military uniform.

1 DZEVAD KADIRIC: I also think so. I don't mind it.

2 REPORTER: Tell us how the collection of weapons went and how many

3 barrels you have brought from the village.

4 DZEVAD KADIRIC: I have brought into the establishment amount I

5 was issued with, ammunition and how shall I put it, rifles and so on.

6 REPORTER: These are all weapons and ammunition of a unit,

7 detachment of the former TO.

8 DZEVAD KADIRIC: The unit, TO platoon, yes, independent platoon of

9 the Biscani local commune which is under the command of the Prijedor

10 municipal Territorial Defence.

11 REPORTER: Can you tell us what the situation like with other

12 weapons? There is information that there is a great number of illegally

13 acquired weapons and military equipment.

14 DZEVAD KADIRIC: What can I tell you? Firstly, I can assure you

15 that the information is not accurate. I cannot guarantee a hundred per

16 cent, nor would I want to, maybe someone does possess a small number of

17 weapons but they are a great minority, and this could only be the case for

18 quite light weapons like pistols and similar, if there is any, but I doubt

19 that there are any heavy weapons in the local commune of Biscani.

20 REPORTER: What is the amount? How many rifles and other weapons

21 have been brought into the barracks, and is that all from all those local

22 communes that were given the ultimatum until yesterday at 1800 hours?

23 CAPTAIN MILAN BARUDZIJA: These are not all the weapons, that is,

24 not from all the local communes. So far 54 rifles with ammunition and

25 other equipment that comes with them have been surrendered from the local

1 communes of Rakovcani and Rizvanovici. However, later, with the arrival of

2 the reserve platoon of the Territorial Defence and the police from the

3 Biscani local commune with the total number of 39 barrels and also with

4 the necessary number of other equipment that comes with these weapons.

5 Donja Puharska representatives have arrived just now, and from them we

6 shall take over the rest. To recapitulate, the total number of weapons

7 that have been surrendered so far is, as I said, 54 rifles from Rakovcani

8 and Rizvanovici and 39 barrels from Biscani.

9 REPORTER: While the handing over of weapons in the Prijedor

10 barracks strengthens optimism, armed conflict has occurred in Kozarac, a

11 settlement 10 kilometres away from Prijedor in the direction of Banja

12 Luka. Infiltrated groups of Green Berets with local extremists obstruct

13 the handover of weapons. Around 1400 hours, fire was opened at the

14 Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Hercegovina Army members from the village of

15 Jakupovici. Fighting continues in the afternoon and through the night.

16 Monday, May 25th, severe fighting is going on around Kozarac. Heavy

17 pressure exercised by the Serbian army and artillery fire forces numerous

18 extremists to withdraw. Hundreds of Green Beret members have surrendered

19 in the villages of Donji Jakupovici, Kevljani, Kozarusa, and the

20 surrounding hamlets. The local hodza in Kevljani organised the surrender

21 of all weapons in the village. The villagers were treated very correctly.

22 Serif Velic, from the village of Kevljani.

23 SERIF VELIC: On behalf of the Kevljani local commune I would like

24 to say and stress the fair conduct of these soldiers who have come here.

25 First they distributed bread and pates and then juices to the children and

1 in the end there was military bean stew for the young, women, and

2 children.

3 REPORTER: Word has it that more than 1.000 Green Beret members

4 and their accomplices from the region of the Cazin Krajina and Croatia

5 have gathered in Kozarac proper. They are under the command of Becir

6 Medunjanin, of Albanian origin, whose group is preventing the ceasefire

7 and the surrender of weapons either going into battle or getting a bullet

8 in the head. There is no exact information regarding the losses on the

9 side of the Muslim armed formations but all estimates suggest that

10 casualties are numerous. May 26th, armed formations of the Muslim

11 extremists are completely surrounded. They do not show their willingness

12 to surrender weapons. At night they open sniper fire from Kamicani,

13 Kozarac, Trnopolje, Trnjine. The village of Jakupovici, until yesterday

14 one of the strongest Muslim strongholds, has been mopped up.

15 RADENKO DELIC: The situation after two days of negotiating and

16 persistent talks with them, they still refuse to surrender the weapons.

17 They have requested buses to take out the population, women, and children,

18 which means they are preparing themselves for heavier fighting than so

19 far.

20 REPORTER: [Inaudible]

21 RADENKO DELIC: Women and children are, buses are ready to

22 transfer them.

23 OSTOJA MIODRAG: Muslims should be forced to respect the

24 authority, to respect the more powerful, their own children, because 1941

25 is long gone. Here along this street a 16-year-old Muslim escorted 50

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1 people, people who were sent to and killed and slaughtered there. I think

2 that those times shall never come back. My son and the generation of

3 today, you, the young, shall never let anyone persecute you, kill you and

4 slaughter you.

5 REPORTER: Let this statement of Ostoja Miodrag, WWII veteran and

6 a gusle player from Potkozarje, be a message and a lesson. Today, May

7 27th, fighting still continues in and around Kozarac. Alija Izetbegovic's

8 policy and Zagreb's strong influence, which significantly intensified in

9 this Muslim settlement since political turmoil in Croatia began, have led

10 the population of Kozarac and its surroundings into the most horrifying

11 drama from which many shall not emerge. Unfortunately, the victims shall

12 also be those who are not to blame for the events happening in

13 Potkozarje.

14 RADE MUTIC: In the uniforms of the Green Berets, Serbian Republic

15 of Bosnia-Herzegovina army overpowered the leadership, entered the town

16 and forced the remaining dismembered formations of Muslim extremists to

17 change clothes and put on dimije, Turkish trousers, and run to the forests

18 of Kozara, while a considerable number of them have been captured. The

19 information regarding the fighting in Hambarine, Kozarac, Kozarusa, and

20 Kamicani is accessible only through the announcements of the Crisis Staff

21 and the secretariat of information, which are being broadcast on an hourly

22 basis on the local radio station. This way the public has been informed

23 that a considerable number of hirelings from other parts of the country,

24 who had already fought in the HOS Croatian Defence Forces and ZNG,

25 National Guard Corps, have been fighting on the side of Muslim extremists,

1 as well as a number of former officers and non-commissioned officers of

2 the former Yugoslav People's Army, who've had the most responsible

3 commanding positions and duties in those battles. The announcements also

4 inform the public that the members of the Green Berets have used all means

5 at their disposal to force local population into the fight until

6 extinction, using the innocent local population, women, and children, as a

7 human shield. The army, however, managed to pull part of the population

8 out of the encirclement and house them, and also to put out the fire,

9 which Muslim extremist had set around their own camp in the Kotlovaca

10 mountain lodge. Once the resistance of the Muslim paramilitaries in

11 Kozarac was quelled, many things became evident and many assumptions came

12 true regarding the long and fateful preparations for the war of

13 extermination into which Alija Izetbegovic first called up his own people,

14 encouraged by the support of the numerous European and world

15 administrators for churning out states. This way several large

16 underground shelters and depots were discovered, equipped with radio

17 stations and supplied with huge provisions of food and beverages, in

18 addition to more than a ton of medication, sufficient for one year of

19 warfare have not been on the market for several years.

20 PREDRAG LAKETA: We are talking with Milomir Stakic, president of

21 the Prijedor municipal Crisis Staff. Mr. President, please describe to us

22 the situation in the territory that is under your control.

23 MILOMIR STAKIC: Well, I can tell you and the viewers that the

24 whole territory of Prijedor municipality is under our control, which I can

25 confirm following the liberation of Kozarac. The town, Serbian

1 settlements and smaller enclaves with Muslim population have been under

2 our control since the takeover on the 30th of April, and now, after the

3 fall of Kozarac, the entire municipality is under our control. In Kozarac

4 itself, the operation of "cleansing," as the military call it, is still

5 going on, because those who have now stayed behind are the most extreme

6 ones and the professionals.

7 PREDRAG LAKETA: In the territory of Bosanska Gradiska

8 municipality, 127 Muslim extremists have been caught who tried to escape

9 to Croatia. In the settlement of Brdjani near Kozarac, there are about

10 1.000 members of the Green Berets and HOS who are sending word that they

11 do not intend to surrender. All the locals who had illegally possessed

12 weapons in the villages of Hrnici and Trnopolje handed them over to the

13 Crisis Staff of the Prijedor municipality except for the Trnopolje hamlet

14 of Karalici. However, they are completely surrounded by the armed

15 formations of the Serbian Republic of Bosnia-Herzegovina so that the

16 liberation of these places is soon expected.

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. A special thanks for the booth for

18 this very marathon, one can see.

19 Let's now turn to --

20 MR. KOUMJIAN: I would formally offer the video and transcripts,

21 if it hasn't yet been formally admitted.

22 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Could we please have the original number

23 of the one minute and eight seconds? The exhibit number at that time

24 was --?

25 THE REGISTRAR: The one minute tape was S240. This tape will be

1 numbered S240-1, and the transcripts S240-1A and B.

2 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Objections? No objections. Therefore admitted

3 into evidence.

4 May I then ask Madam Registrar to read out from the Official

5 Gazette number 1, page number 1.

6 THE REGISTRAR: "Official Gazette of Prijedor municipality, 2001,

7 1-92, Wednesday, 20 May, 1992, number 1. Pursuant to article 12 of the

8 constitutional law on the implementation of the constitution of the

9 Serbian Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina, (Official Gazette of the

10 Serbian people in BH) number 3-92, the Prijedor Municipal Assembly, at its

11 session held on 20 May 1992 adopted the following decision on

12 implementation of decisions and other regulations of Prijedor

13 municipality.

14 Article 1. Until adoption of new decisions and other regulations,

15 the decisions and other regulations of Prijedor municipality adopted so

16 far that are in accordance with the constitution of the Serbian Republic

17 of Bosnia and Herzegovina, and are not in contradiction with the laws and

18 other regulations adopted by the Assembly of the Serbian people in Bosnia

19 and Herzegovina or the National Assembly will be applied.

20 Article 2. This decision becomes effective on the day of its

21 adoption. Number 01-023-26/92. Prijedor assembly, date 20 May 1992.

22 President of the municipal -- Dr. Milomir Stakic."

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could you then please be so kind to round up --

24 to read out number 17 on page 55 and 56.

25 THE REGISTRAR: "17. At its session held on 20 May 1991, the

1 Prijedor Municipal Assembly considered the request of EnergoPetrol,

2 Prijedor operational unit, as the legal representative of the federal

3 directorate for industrial products reserves, for assessment of general

4 interest pursuant to Article 15 of the law on expropriation, (Official

5 Gazette of the SRBH, number 12/87) and made the following ruling:

6 1: It is found to be of general interest to set up a protection

7 fence for the piping on Brezicani cadastral district land, to which end

8 total expropriation of the following cadastral plots can be carried out.

9 Cadastral plot number 2694/5 Zajednica community/field 5/?KL./ of an area

10 of 416 square metres, registered in plan number 595 of Brezicani

11 cadastral district (formerly cadastral plot 511/78) entered into cadastral

12 register number 186 of Brezicani cadastral district under possession of

13 Mina Kulasic and Hamdija Kulasic and others.

14 2: No appeal or administrative proceedings can be initiated

15 against this ruling. 06-473-35/91, Prijedor assembly, 20 May 1992.

16 President of the municipal blank Dr. Milomir Stakic/handwritten/PSI-40,

17 012-017.

18 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: And finally, from this volume, please, number

19 15. This is on page 53 to 54.

20 MR. LUKIC: Excuse me, Your Honour. Would it be possible for us

21 to check what the title on the original? Because the translation said

22 that Milomir Stakic was president of the municipal, and it shouldn't say

23 on the original that way. It should be the president of the Municipal

24 Assembly.

25 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Madam Registrar.

1 THE REGISTRAR: 15. Pursuant to Article 28 of the law on primary

2 schools (Official Gazette of the SRBH, number 39/9?) and Article 36 of the

3 law on secondary schools (Official Gazette of the SRBH number 39-/9?8),

4 the Prijedor Municipal Assembly, at its session held on 20 May 1992,

5 adopted the following decision on discontinuation of instruction in

6 primary and secondary schools of Prijedor municipality:

7 Article 1: Primary and secondary schools. In Prijedor

8 municipality, will discontinue instruction of the academic year 1991 to

9 1992 on 20 May 1992.

10 Article 2: This decision becomes effective on the day of its

11 adoption. Number 01-023-33/92. Prijedor. President of the Municipal

12 Assembly. Dr. Milomir Stakic. Date, 20 May 1992.

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Mr. Koumjian, you wanted to comment?

14 MR. KOUMJIAN: Just this, Mr. Lukic, we do have and counsel should

15 have the original, and he is correct. The original, which I believe is

16 marked 273 or 4B, whatever number we're at, indicates on the last

17 decision, "Predsnjednik Skupstina Opstina". So I could stipulate, if

18 counsel is willing to, that it does indicate president of the Municipal

19 Assembly. 276B.

20 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: As regards the school, the last decision number

21 15, there was no translation problem you could identify immediately?

22 MR. LUKIC: That's right, Your Honour. No problems.

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Okay. Thank you.

24 Then --

25 MR. KOUMJIAN: Also, the translations, though, I do have one

1 complaint on my part, is that they don't make any notation of the SR

2 following the name of Dr. Stakic, and you'll see in the originals all of

3 the decisions have "Dr. Milomir Stakic SR", and we've had testimony that

4 that means in his own hand, a common phrase used in Bosnia at the time.

5 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Now the question goes to Madam

6 Registrar. How shall we proceed with the following documents? Should it

7 be read out in B/C/S, which would be preferable, because by doing so, we

8 could immediately point out what is added in handwriting. Could we do,

9 for this time, once again the same procedure? I see a nodding from the

10 B/C/S booth. Thank you for that. If the parties have no problem -- thank

11 you. If the parties agree, we can limit the reading out of the document

12 to the framework and not the listing up of all the enactments passed on

13 each and every day. No objections? Okay. Let's do it this way.

14 [Trial Chamber and registrar confer]

15 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We just discussed, please read out only the

16 framework, but emphasise what you can identify as handwriting, in special.

17 It was 65 ter number 297, which is - please help me - S number --?

18 MR. KOUMJIAN: 250.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: 250. It's distributed all to the courtroom.

20 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Serbian Republic of

21 Bosnia-Herzegovina, Autonomous Region of Krajina, Prijedor municipality.

22 Reference number 01-023-, number illegible, 92-3. Presumably 28th of

23 July, 1992.

24 To: Municipal Assembly of Prijedor. Prijedor. Subject,

25 confirmation of decisions within the competence of the Municipal Assembly,

1 adopted by the Crisis Staff.

2 At its session of the 20th of May, 1992, the Municipal Assembly of

3 Prijedor adopted decision number 01-023-24/92 on the organisation and work

4 of the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality. Article 2 of the above

5 decision stipulates that the Crisis Staff shall decide on matters within

6 the jurisdiction of the Municipal Assembly if the assembly cannot meet,

7 but has the duty to submit every decision it adopts for confirmation by

8 the Assembly as soon as the Assembly can meet. By Decision number

9 01-023-53/92, dated the 14th of July, 1992, the Crisis Staff was renamed

10 the War Presidency, retaining the same members and powers.

11 In the period between the 29th of May and the 24th of July, 1992,

12 the Crisis Staff and the War Presidency passed enactments, decisions,

13 orders, decisions and conclusions which are hereby submitted to the

14 Assembly for confirmation, as follows:

15 I - enactments passed on the 29th of May, 1992."

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: We said it's not necessary to read out all these

17 enactments. Please continue, then, on -- I don't know which is the B/C/S

18 page number, but in English you find, in the English version you find 6

19 stars. The same is true evidently in the B/C/S version, on page 13.

20 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] Last page in the B/C/S.

21 "The War Presidency hereby proposes to the Municipal Assembly that

22 it adopt a decision confirming all enactments (decisions, orders,

23 decisions and conclusions) made by the Crisis Staff of Prijedor

24 municipality and the War Presidency during the period between the 29th of

25 May and 24th of July, 1992, as follows:

1 On the basis of Article 3 of the Decision on the Organisation and

2 Work of the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality (Official Gazette of

3 Prijedor municipality number 2/92), the Municipal Assembly of Prijedor, at

4 its session held in 1992, adopted the following decision:

5 1: All the enactments (decisions, orders, decisions and

6 conclusions) passed by the Crisis Staff of Prijedor municipality and the

7 War Presidency during the period between the 29th of May and 24th of July

8 1992 are hereby confirmed.

9 2: This Decision shall come into effect on the day of its

10 adoption, and it shall be published in the Official Gazette of Prijedor

11 municipality.

12 Number 01-023-(blank)/92.

13 Prijedor.

14 Date: (Blank) 1992.

15 President of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Milomir Stakic."

16 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May we now turn to 65 ter number 314, which is

17 Exhibit S --?

18 THE REGISTRAR: S253.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Once again, please, -2 in the B/C/S version with

20 all handwriting attachments and remarks, as far as possible -- as

21 readable.

22 MR. KOUMJIAN: Just to clarify, because we have two B/C/S

23 versions --

24 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I think we said yesterday the one is -1 and the

25 second is -2. Let's turn to -2, please.

1 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] In the upper right corner we

2 read, in handwriting, illegible, the last word Ranko.

3 Bishop's Diocesan office in Banja Luka.

4 78101 Banja Luka, PO box 93. Petra I. Karadjordjevica 64.

5 Telephone/fax: 07835984.

6 Written in hand on the right-hand side is the date, the 19th of

7 June, 1992, and underneath, the 6th of August, 1992. There is a signature

8 underneath. The first word reads Simo. The second one is illegible.

9 Mr. Simo Drljaca, chief of public security station Prijedor,

10 number 576/92, date August 11th, 1992.

11 Dear Sir, first of all, I would like to thank you for the

12 discussion I had in your company on the 4th of August, 1992, with

13 Mr. Stakic, president of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Kovacevic, chairman

14 of the executive committee of the Municipal Assembly, and Colonel Arsic,

15 regarding the situation of Catholics in Prijedor municipality.

16 You promised me on that occasion that the reprisals against the

17 Catholic residents in your municipality, who, as you know, are very

18 peace-loving, would stop.

19 Since at the time you were not able to grant my request to visit

20 my priest, Father Stipo Sosic, the parish priest from Ljubija who has been

21 in the Omarska camp since the 15th of June, 1992, you promised to call me

22 within two days and let me know how he was and why he was in the camp at

23 all. Even though General Talic, the 1st Krajina Corps commander,

24 expressly promised to me on the 2nd of August this year that my priest

25 would be released immediately, I haven't to date, the 11th of August,

1 1992, received any information from you or any other competent authority

2 in your municipality about the detained, and, according to our

3 information, badly tortured priest.

4 I expect you, sir, to fulfil the promise given to me as soon as

5 possible and let me know what is happening to Father Sosic and when you

6 intend to release him from detention in the camp in which he has been

7 held, under the worst of conditions, for almost two months, although he

8 has not been found guilty of any crime.

9 Yours respectfully.

10 Signature handwritten.

11 Franjo Komarica."

12 Underneath we read Dr. Franjo Komarica, bishop of Banja Luka.

13 There is a stamp on the left-hand side, "bishop Diocesan office in

14 Banja Luka."

15 "Copies: Addressee, president of the Prijedor Municipal Assembly,

16 Milomir Stakic, General Talic, Banja Luka, Papal Nunciature Belgrade."

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. We discussed during the admission

18 into evidence, this document briefly yesterday. May I ask the Defence

19 whether the content of this document is in fact contested or not to leave

20 the Trial Chamber the discretion to call Dr. Franjo Komarica as a witness

21 during the Prosecution's case, to confirm or not confirm what he has laid

22 down in this letter?

23 MR. OSTOJIC: Good afternoon, Your Honour. We will be able to

24 provide the Chamber with a definitive answer on that once we are able to

25 consult with our client, Dr. Stakic, which we anticipate will be done

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1 tomorrow. So with all due respect, if we can delay in answering that

2 question on Monday, we'd be willing and able to provide you an accurate

3 answer on Monday morning, at the commencement of these proceedings.

4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. Thank you for this. Because if not, no

5 doubt the principle of directness could bring us to the conclusion that

6 it's necessary to hear this bishop in person on this issue. Thank you.

7 Let's now proceed to document 341. And 65 ter number?

8 THE REGISTRAR: 65 ter number 341, numbered S259. We have two

9 versions of B/C/S.

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: But here we have the same -- we had identical

11 ones, so therefore please start with -1.

12 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Abridged minutes of the session

13 of the Prijedor Municipal Assembly held on the 27th of August, 1992 in the

14 hall of the Ljubija iron ore mine, starting at 0900 hours.

15 The session was chaired by Dr. Milomir Stakic, the president of

16 the Municipal Assembly.

17 The session was attended by 72 assemblymen, so the assembly was

18 able to hold valid debates and make valid decisions.

19 Before the agenda was adopted, assemblyman Bozo Maric reminded the

20 chairman that before the Assembly started work, suitable symbols of the

21 Serbian Republic should be obtained.

22 The following took part in the discussion preceding the adoption

23 of the agenda: Dragan Sidjak, Vinko Kos, Bosko Mandic, Dusko Vujinovic,

24 Dragan Savanovic, Milan Pilipovic, Dusan Kurnoga, Zdravko Jovic, Dragan

25 Mikanovic, Radoljub Glusac, Boro Babic, Dusko Baltic, Mile Mutic, Milan

1 Babic, Marinko Coric, Cedo Vila, Milan Andzic, Simo Miskovic, and Milan

2 Kovacevic.

3 The following agenda was adopted with 54 votes in favour and two

4 against.

5 Agenda.

6 1: Draft decision on the confirmation of decisions issued by the

7 Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime presidency, in the period from the 29th

8 of May to the 24th of July, 1992;.

9 2: "

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: May I ask for clarification? The translation,

11 one can read on line 14, issued by the Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime

12 presidency. In our version, it reads: Crisis Staff and the wartime

13 presidency." What would be the accurate translation? Could we please

14 hear it for the transcript?

15 THE INTERPRETER: Your Honour, both are acceptable. It can also

16 be "and/or".

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: How can we come to a better solution? Because

18 this can be of some importance for a decision.

19 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, perhaps for the record we can just put

20 in the original B/C/S. But if I could add an editorial comment --

21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Please.

22 MR. KOUMJIAN: The evidence is, and perhaps Mr. Corin, who is our

23 linguist, can also, and historian, can expand on this. The Crisis Staff

24 and War Presidencies were the same bodies in Prijedor. There simply was a

25 change in name. So whether it is Crisis Staff or War Presidency or War

1 Commission, which it had that name, although not formally adopted for a

2 couple of days, it is the same body, simply different names for the same

3 rose, so to speak.

4 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: I'm aware, because we heard this immediately

5 beforehand, when other decisions were confirmed. I was only surprised to

6 hear and to read "Crisis Staff and wartime presidency" and what was

7 apparently translated correctly now, Crisis Staff. That is wartime

8 presidency. I think we can live with this letter translation. Thank you.

9 So sorry for having interrupted you.

10 The Defence wants to comment on this?

11 MR. LUKIC: What I'm discussing, Your Honour, with my co-counsel

12 is that War Commission is actually not the same body.

13 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Sorry. I didn't understand you.

14 MR. LUKIC: War Commission is not the same body as Crisis Staff

15 and War Presidency. There is some difference in, and that's obvious from

16 the documentation.

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: But from former documents, I think we can,

18 without any problem, conclude that the Crisis Staff later was called War

19 Presidency. Is this correct?

20 MR. LUKIC: War Presidency, yes. But War Commission is different.

21 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Right. Thank you.

22 May we then continue, please.

23 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] I believe we stopped at item 2.

24 "2. Draft decision on declaring abandoned property the property

25 of the state;

1 3. Draft decision on the allocation for temporary use of real

2 estate declared the property of the state;

3 4. Draft decision on the appointment of a commission for the

4 allocation for temporary use of real estate declared the property of the

5 state;

6 5. Draft decision on material provisions for and other rights of

7 soldiers, disabled war veterans and civilian war invalids from the

8 military operations since the 17th of August, 1991;

9 6. Draft decision on the conditions and procedure for the

10 allocation of housing, granting of loans and other rights of participants

11 in the war since the 17th of August, 1991;

12 7. Draft decision on amendments to the decision on the conditions

13 and procedure for allocating for use housing at the disposal of the

14 municipality of Prijedor;

15 8. Draft decision on the election of the chairperson and members

16 of the commission for matters concerning soldiers and disabled war

17 veterans;

18 9. Draft decision on local offices;

19 10. Draft decision on the budgets of the municipality of Prijedor

20 for 1992;

21 11. Draft decision on a municipal tax on persons employed abroad;

22 12. Draft decision on exempting from taxes and contributions

23 taxpayers who are reservists in the army;

24 13. Draft decision on appointing an Elections and Appointments

25 Board;

1 14. Draft decision on the election of judge-jurors at the Lower

2 Court in Prijedor;

3 15. Draft decision on appointing acting directors of primary

4 schools;

5 16. Draft decision on appointing a Commission to assess the

6 market value of land;

7 17. Draft decision on appointing a Commission to assess the

8 market value and the material value of buildings;

9 18. Information on the political and security situation on the

10 territory of the Municipality of Prijedor.

11 Before the Assembly proceeded according to the adopted agenda,

12 Simo Drljaca, the chief of the public security station, informed those

13 present of the content of a telex sent from the Banja Luka public security

14 station.

15 I: Draft decision on the confirmation of decisions issued by the

16 Crisis Staff, that is, the wartime presidency, in the period from the 29th

17 of May to the 24th of July, 1992.

18 The president of the Municipal Assembly made some introductory

19 remarks, and Dusan Baltic, the secretary of the Municipal Assembly,

20 explained the reasons for the decision.

21 The following took part in the debate: Vinko Kos, Milomir Stakic,

22 Milan Pilipovic, Ranko Travar, Dragan Sidjak, Zdravko Jovic, Ratko Joves,

23 Milan Babic, Dragan Mikanovic, Boro Babic, Dusan Kurnoga, Srdjo Srdic,

24 Dragan Savanovic, Dusan Baltic, Simo Drljaca, and Milorad Panic.

25 The assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision on the

1 confirmation of decisions issued by the Crisis Staff and the wartime

2 presidency in the period from 29 May to 24 July 1992.

3 II: Draft decision on declaring abandoned property the property

4 of the state.

5 The president of the Municipal Assembly made some introductory

6 remarks and Slobodan Radulj, the public attorney, explained the reasons

7 for the decision.

8 The following took part in the debate: Dusan Kurnoga, Dusan

9 Baltic, Dr. Milomir Stakic, Zdravko Jovic, and Dragan Sidjak. After this,

10 the assemblymen unanimously adopted the Decision on declaring abandoned

11 property the property of the state.

12 III: Draft decision on the allocation for temporary use of the

13 real estate declared the property of the state.

14 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks.

15 The following took part in the debate: Vinko Kos, Milomir Stakic,

16 Dragan Savanovic, Milorad Zrnic, Slobodan Radulj, Zdravko Jovic, Bosko

17 Mandic, Dusko Baltic, and Bozo Maric. After this, the assemblymen reached

18 a unanimous decision on the draft text, with the proviso that in Article

19 2, the words "who did not participate in the armed rebellion" to be added

20 after the words "the Municipality of Prijedor".

21 IV: Draft decision on the appointment of a commission for the

22 allocation for temporary use of real estate declared the property of the

23 state.

24 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks.

25 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Savanovic, Dusan

1 Baltic, Milomir Stakic, Vojo Pavicic and Vinko Kos. After this, the

2 assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision.

3 The following were appointed to the commission:

4 1. Mirko Utjesanovic, chairman of the commission, Ostoja Skrbic,

5 deputy chairman.

6 2. Radmila Djudic, graduate lawyer, member. Nada Gurlan,

7 graduate lawyer, deputy member.

8 3. Dijana Petkovic, surveyor, land surveyor, member. Milada

9 Jelicic, surveyor, deputy member.

10 4. (blank)." On the right side we read the following. "An

11 assemblyman from the territory of the local commune on whose territory the

12 real estate to be assigned is located.

13 5. (blank)." On the right we read: "A representative of the

14 local community on whose territory the real estate to be assigned is

15 located.

16 V: Draft decision --"

17 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Could we immediately proceed to point X.

18 THE INTERPRETER: "Draft decision on the budgets of the

19 municipality of Prijedor for 1992.

20 Ranko Travar, the secretary of the municipality approximately

21 secretariat for the economy and social services, made some introductory

22 remarks. The following took part in the debate: Dusko Vujinovic, Dr.

23 Milomir Stakic, Dragan Savanovic, Milorad Zrnic, Ranko Travar, Dragan

24 Sidjak, and Milan Pilipovic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously

25 adopted the decision on the budget of the municipality of Prijedor for

1 1992, with the conclusion that 'funds earmarked for the work of the SDP

2 and SRSJ may not be remitted to these parties for their use until they

3 disavow the standpoints of their leaderships in Sarajevo and until they

4 are constituted in Republika Srpska.

5 XI: Draft decision on a municipal tax on persons employed abroad.

6 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks, and Boro Babic,

7 the director of the municipal public revenue administration, explained the

8 reasons for the decision.

9 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Sidjak and Boro

10 Babic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously adopted the decision on a

11 municipal tax on persons employed abroad, with the conclusion that the

12 director of the municipal public revenue administration is to investigate

13 the possibility of payments being made in German marks.

14 XII: Draft decision on exempting from taxes and contributions tax

15 payers who are reservists in the army and police force.

16 Boro Babic, the director of the municipal public revenue

17 administration, made some introductory remarks and explained the reasons

18 for the decision.

19 The following took part in the debate: Dragan Sidjak and Dr.

20 Milomir Stakic. After this, the assemblymen unanimously adopted the

21 decision on exempting from taxes and contribution tax payers who are

22 reservists in the Army and police force.

23 XIII: Draft decision on appointing an Elections and Appointments

24 board.

25 Dr. Milomir Stakic made some introductory remarks, and Dusan

1 Baltic, the secretary of the Municipal Assembly, explained the reasons for

2 the decision. The following took part in the debate: Dr. Milomir Stakic,

3 Simo Miskovic, Dragan Savanovic, and Ranko Gnjatovic. Then the

4 assemblymen adopted, with nine votes against and seven abstentions, the

5 decision on appointing the commission.

6 The following were appointed to the commission:

7 1. Dragan Savanovic, chairman of the commission. 2. Milan

8 Pilipovic. 3. Slobodan Balaban. 4. Slavko Antonic. 5. Brane Koncar.

9 6. Vinko Kos. 7. Mirko Sarac. 8. Miljenko Jelisavac. 9. Cedo Vila."

10 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Then can we finally come to 18 and

11 until the end of the document.

12 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "XVIII: Information on the

13 political and security situation on the territory of the municipality of

14 Prijedor.

15 After some introductory remarks by Colonel Vladimir Arsic and the

16 chief of the public security service, Simo Drljaca, the following took

17 part in the debate: Dr. Milomir Stakic, Dragan Sidjak, Dusan Kurnoga,

18 Dusko Vujinovic, Vinko Kos, Ratko Joves, Dragoje Jelicic, Milorad Zrnic,

19 Dragan Mikanovic, Colonel Arsic, Simo Drljaca, Ranko Nikic, Ranko

20 Gnjatovic, Ninoslav Maric, Simo Miskovic, and Marinko Coric.

21 After the debate, the following conclusions were reached:

22 1. That the regional staffs submit information about any

23 occurrences of looting or other irregularities in their areas;

24 2. That an item on the agenda of the next session of the assembly

25 be devoted to the political and security situation in the area of the

1 municipality of Prijedor.

2 The chairperson concluded the work of the session at 2000 hours.

3 President of the Municipal Assembly, Dr. Milomir Stakic.

4 SR, the accuracy of the copy is certified by secretary of the

5 Municipal Assembly, Dusan Baltic."

6 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. May we now to Kozarski Vjesnik of 25

7 September 1992, which was 65 ter number 363 and that's now S --?

8 THE REGISTRAR: S264, Your Honour.

9 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Yes. We have already the readable version.

10 Please, only the article "the police is not the army".

11 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "The police is not the army."

12 THE REGISTRAR: Just a minute, because the booth does not have a

13 readable version. Can somebody lend an extra copy? The French booth

14 needs a B/C/S version. Thank you.

15 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "The police is not the army.

16 Dissatisfaction with the unit's commanding personnel was given as

17 the pretext, but the real reasons surfaced later on. What did the

18 policemen ask for, and what did the municipal authorities offer?

19 Displeased with command of their unit, 127 members of a recently

20 formed police battalion returned without authorisation from the Han

21 Pijesak front on Thursday, the 17th of September. The very next day,

22 Friday, the policemen met representatives of both the civilian and

23 military municipal authorities and presented their demands, which were

24 listed as eight items. This was the reason why the Municipal Council of

25 the People's Defence planned to convene on Monday, take a position, and

1 propose a solution. The same topic was the subject of yet another meeting

2 on Tuesday, where many of the same people were present.

3 The assembled policemen were informed about the fate of their

4 demands by the president of the Assembly and the chairman of the executive

5 board of Prijedor municipality. The president of the SDS municipal board,

6 Dr. Milomir Stakic, was also present. The president of the municipal

7 parliament explained to the policemen present that their first demand, an

8 urgent session of the Municipal Assembly, was denied because the assembly

9 does not discuss such matters. Actually, such matters are under the

10 jurisdiction of the People's Defence Council, which, in any case, had

11 immediately adopted a position. The second demand, placing all the

12 policemen who deserted the front on stand-by status, was accepted. The

13 third demand was to bring back all the rest of the police battalion from

14 Han Pijesak. Stakic explained that such things were not under the

15 jurisdiction of either the municipal civilian or military authorities

16 because the decision on the formation of the police battalion had been

17 issued by the Government of Republika Srpska and thus only the Cabinet

18 could decide on its deployment to or its withdrawal from the front. A

19 similar response was given concerning the fourth demand, that in future,

20 no more than 10 per cent of the population fit for military service from

21 Prijedor municipality should be assigned to areas of military operations

22 in the former BH. Having remarked that such a decision exceeds the

23 authority of the municipality, Milomir Stakic informed those present that

24 the Prijedor civilian government had already addressed the republican

25 government with the idea of having each municipality proportionately

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1 represented in the military, based on the number of people of Serbian

2 nationality in each municipality.

3 The answer to the fifth demand, the removal of Captain Slijepcevic

4 from his commanding post, was that the civilian authorities could not

5 interfere with the staffing policy of the army, but that Colonel Arsic had

6 been asked to reassess the commanding performance of the aforementioned

7 officer. In their sixth demand, the policemen wanted to know why the

8 prisoners from Keraterm, Omarska, and Trnopolje had been released. Stakic

9 indicated the two key reasons which had motivated the government in Pale

10 to make such a decision: Pressure from international public opinion and

11 official policy, and the steep cost of maintaining the prisons. The last

12 demand, for a definition of the relationship between the civilian

13 authorities, the army, and the police, received comment from the President

14 of the Municipal Assembly. He said that legislative regulation already

15 did exist, but that one should not expect from a state, such as Krajina,

16 still in the process of forming, to resolve everything ideally from the

17 start. Mico Kovacevic, president of the municipal government,

18 supplemented the explanations given by Dr. Milomir Stakic, and this part

19 of the meeting concluded with a proposal that the policemen who had

20 deserted the front should choose one of the commanders at the Gradacac

21 front and join his forces.

22 In the course of the discussion and comments concerning positions

23 taken by the municipal authority, a great deal of what had been obvious at

24 first, but which was at the heart of the problem, which ended with their

25 leaving Han Pijesak, suddenly became clear. The police is not the army,

1 and should not go to the front but should stay to do its own job, this

2 being a common opinion of the summoned members of the police battalion.

3 Requests were heard for an explanation concerning the method of selection

4 of which policemen were to stay in town and which were to be sent to the

5 front. The opinion was also voiced that intolerance between the civilian

6 and the military police, as well as between the police and the army, had

7 already been smouldering for quite some time. The army apparently

8 believed that the police had a privileged position and a less difficult

9 and dangerous role in this war. A proposal cropped up that the Military

10 Prosecutor should determine to what extent the decision to reassign the

11 policemen to the army had been based on legal grounds. There was also an

12 isolated opinion that the only way for these policemen to avoid being

13 labelled as cowards and deserters was to return to Han Pijesak. Simo

14 Miskovic, SDS leader, reminded those present that sacrifices had to be

15 made for the Serbian cause and that there was no turning back from the

16 road they had taken. In Prijedor, we will continue struggling to ensure

17 that the burden of creating a new state is shared equally by all of its

18 future citizens, said Miskovic, and appealed to the policemen not to allow

19 their action to become a source of conflict among Serbs.

20 Despite all the bitterness, distrust, and divisiveness in

21 perceptions of the same problem, and significant disagreement concerning

22 desires and ambitions even among the very policemen who had deserted the

23 front, the meeting ended with a conclusion accepted by a close vote of

24 those present. All 127 newly recruited soldiers of the Republika Srpska

25 Army will turn to Han Pijesak."

1 MR. KOUMJIAN: Your Honour, I'd request just one clarification on

2 the translation. It's come up before, but in the second paragraph,

3 referring to a body that's translated in this article as the People's

4 Defence Council, in the English translation, the seventh line, going over

5 to the eighth. I would ask again the booth to confirm that this can also

6 be translated as the National Defence Council. In some of our documents

7 it's translated as National Defence Council, in some the People's Defence

8 Council, but I believe it's the same word in B/C/S that we're talking

9 about.

10 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, that's true.

11 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this clarification.

12 May we then finally come to 65 ter 391, and here we can limit

13 ourselves to the first part, because we are, of course, interested in

14 crime in general, and so on, but not on the crime dates of Prijedor and

15 other municipalities at that time. From page 1 to 8, first paragraph,

16 please, in the English version.

17 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "Republika Srpska, ministry of

18 internal affairs, Security Services Centre, Banja Luka, public security

19 station, Prijedor.

20 Report on the work of the Prijedor public security station during

21 the last nine months of 1992.

22 Prijedor, January 1993.

23 A) creation of conditions for the functioning of the public

24 security station.

25 After the last multiparty elections, the SDA party assumed power

1 in Prijedor and held, in addition to a large number of departments in the

2 municipality, the most important positions in the public security station.

3 In these circumstances, it proved very difficult to work on the

4 organisational structure and preparation of personnel for the Serbian

5 ministry of internal affairs. In view of the fact that the chief of the

6 public security station in Prijedor and commander of the police station

7 for the control and safety of traffic were both SDA people, these

8 activities had to be covert and involve a very limited number of

9 personnel. The work was carried out outside the station premises, often

10 using the premises of the cultural centre in Cirkin Polje. The focus of

11 the work was on the covert organisation and formation of "shadow" police

12 stations and the arming and equipping of the personnel. In this manner,

13 13 police stations were established, with a total staff of about 1.500.

14 Weapons, ammunition, and other materiel were acquired from various

15 sources. The army was the primary source, and secretly, mostly at night,

16 collected, transported, stored, and distributed to personnel for

17 homekeeping and use.

18 In these circumstances, and at a time when ethnic maps were being

19 drafted which were placing Prijedor in Cazinska Krajina, activities were

20 launched to prepare for a takeover by force. These activities gained

21 momentum in April, and the actual date of the takeover was forced upon us

22 by the Presidency of the then Socialist Republic of BH, when they issued

23 the order to attack military installations and convoys. As a result, in

24 the night between the 29th and 30th of April, 1992, following very

25 detailed preparations and pursuant to the relevant decision of the

1 Executive Committee of the Serbian municipality of Prijedor, an organised

2 takeover of power was embarked upon. About 400 policemen assembled in the

3 cultural centre of Cirkin Polje, and at 0400 hours they took control of

4 the important sites in the town, which made possible the takeover of all

5 leading functions in the Municipality, the municipal administration

6 organs, and the important companies.

7 After the takeover, all personnel of Croatian and Muslim ethnicity

8 were summoned to interviews by the Chief of the SJB, and the option of

9 signing declarations of allegiance to Republika Srpska was explained to

10 them. They were all given a reasonable time limit, and in response to

11 various requests - mostly from the police squads of Ljubija and of Kozarac

12 - this time limit was extended twice. Additionally, interviews were also

13 conducted with a number of Serbian members of the staff who had not been

14 explicit enough in defining their future work engagement. Through these

15 interviews, and talks with representatives of the local authorities and

16 political leaders in areas populated mostly by Muslims and Croats, a

17 process of differentiation took place so that it became evident who among

18 the staff would be willing to sign a loyalty oath, and on the other hand,

19 a number of Serbian staff were given a period of three or six months

20 respectively, to show that they can work well and prove their worth in

21 this new situation, which would secure their further engagement within the

22 Public Security Station.

23 These activities were interrupted by the outbreak of conflict,

24 which started on the 22nd of May, 1992, when Muslim extremists attacked

25 five military conscripts in the village of Hambarine, and gained intensity

1 when a military convoy was attacked in the village of Jakupovici on the

2 24th of May, 1992. The conflict escalated and the policemen of Muslim

3 ethnicity engaged fully on the Green Berets' side in the area of Kozarac,

4 while many others who had been working in the town or in Ljubija and

5 living in the areas populated primarily by non-Serbs made their services

6 available to the enemy, or returned the equipment and weapons they had

7 been issued by this Public Security Station. Three police employees

8 signed the loyalty oath to Republika Srpska: one Ukranian and two persons

9 from mixed marriages. These three are working in the Public Security

10 Station in Prijedor to this very day. In addition to them, two police

11 reservists of Croatian ethnicity signed the loyalty declaration, but one

12 of them left his unit when it was fighting at Orasje and was subsequently

13 discharged from the reserve police force.

14 Until the 4th of April, 1992, a total of 453 people were employed

15 in the Public Security Station in Prijedor: 145 on the active force and

16 308 on the reserve force.

17 After the 4th of April, 1992, an organisational and functional

18 restructuring of the Public Security Station was carried out with the

19 active involvement of about 20 people, for the most part executives from

20 the crime police and other services in the station. The number increased

21 significantly in May, since with the takeover of the 29th of April, 1992,

22 the covert mode of operation could be completely abandoned. The number of

23 employees in the public security station of Prijedor fluctuated as

24 follows:

25 April: 145 active, 308 reserve, a total of 453

1 May: 145 active, 1.447 reserve, a total of 1.663

2 June: 148 active, 1.607 reserve, a total of 1.755

3 July: 153 active, 1.459 reserve, a total of 1.612

4 August: 171 active, 1.383 reserve, a total of 1.554

5 September: 177 active, 1.396 reserve, a total of 1.573

6 October: 180 active, 995 reserve, a total of 1.175

7 November: 185 active, 1.004 reserve, a total of 1.199

8 December: 184 active, 950 reserve, a total of 1.134

9

10 B) Participation of the members of the station in combat

11 operations

12 In our Municipality, combat operations commenced on the 22nd of

13 May, 1992. Employees of this Station actively participated in these

14 operations, primarily members of both the active and the reserve forces of

15 the police. Combat activities were at their most intense in the areas of

16 Kozarac, Kozarusa, Trnopolje, Kamicani, Rizvanovici, Biscani, Hambarine,

17 Zecovi, Carakovo, Kurevo, Raljas, Cela, and the town of Prijedor

18 itself. Eleven policemen were killed in combat, and 25 were lightly or

19 seriously wounded. After these operations, the policemen engaged

20 in intensive mopping-up activities, apprehending and debriefing certain

21 individuals who could be connected to enemy activity in this area. Once

22 the situation stabilised and the focus of combat shifted to other areas,

23 police officers were dispatched to other battlefields, including: Kotor

24 Vares, between the 24th of August and the 24th of September, 1992, 5

25 policemen.

1 Below there is a sign. It's an "X." It reads as follows:

2 Radenko Djapa on the 30th of April, 1992; Rajko Bilbija on 9th of

3 May, 1992; Zeljko Gnjatovic on 30th of May; Dusko Lukic on the 30th of

4 May; Mladen Vlacina on the 30th of May; Branko Djuricic on the 30th of

5 May; Dario Davidovic on the 31st of May; Borislav Zujic, the 23rd of July;

6 Milan Curguz on the 23rd of July; Milenko Gojic on 23rd of July; and

7 Milenko Katana on 10th August, 1992."

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: For the purposes of the transcript, it should be

9 fixed that this is a footnote to the sentence saying that 11 policemen

10 were killed in combat.

11 I think we can proceed immediately on page 5, to the last

12 paragraph, starting with "three collection centres."

13 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] Page 4 of the B/C/S version.

14 "Three collection centres were established in the territory of our

15 municipality, that is, Keraterm, Trnopolje, and Omarska. Several

16 thousands people passed through these centres, and about 6.000 informative

17 interviews were conducted with them. Until the 21st of August, 1992, 187

18 police employees were involved in guard duties in these centres. Except

19 for Trnopolje, all other reception centres were dismantled on the 21st of

20 August, 1992, as there were no further security requirements for them.

21 The Trnopolje reception centre, however, remained in place until

22 November. In addition to women and children, there was a large

23 concentration of Muslim men fit for military service there, including

24 persons who had spent some time in Omarska and Keraterm because of their

25 direct or indirect involvement in armed rebellion. As several convoys

1 were organised for the transportation of these persons in the direction of

2 Skender Vakuf, Bugojno, Karlovac, and Gradiska, our policemen took part

3 in the escort and security details provided for the convoys.

4 The following data reveal how important the participation of

5 policemen employees and other authorised employees of the Public Security

6 Station in Prijedor was for the combat operations:

7 - 2 active and 11 reserve policemen were killed, or a total of 13

8 - 5 active and 20 reserve policemen were seriously wounded, or a

9 total of 25

10 - 6 active and 36 reserve policemen were lightly wounded, or a

11 total of 42.

12 Total casualties: 13 active and 67 reserve policemen, a total of

13 80.

14 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Finally, to conclude, this last paragraph of the

15 version ... [Microphone not activated] [Court reporter's note: Last

16 paragraph of page 6 in the English version]

17 THE INTERPRETER: [Interpretation] "In addition to Croatian and

18 Muslim employees who did not sign the declaration of loyalty to Republika

19 Srpska during the last two months of 1992, four authorised employees were

20 also removed from the service: one for taking part in the commission of a

21 crime and three for abandoning their positions on the front without

22 permission."

23 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you for this. This concludes the

24 reading out of documents for today. I have seen that there is some

25 surprise from the side of the OTP, some new documents to be distributed

1 today?

2 MR. KOUMJIAN: Yes. Well, there is the spreadsheet that was

3 created by one of our team members, which concerns documents that we

4 contend contain the signature of Dr. Stakic. However, this was done on a

5 computer in colour, and I'm going to try to obtain colour copies. If Your

6 Honours like, I can give the Court and the Defence the copies we have now,

7 but I'm going to ask that colour copies be made.

8 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: This would be kind. Thank you.

9 MR. KOUMJIAN: I also wanted to inform the Defence that -- they

10 asked about Mr. Inayat had said something in his previous testimony about

11 an index of documents seized. I asked him about that index, and he

12 indicated that he would estimate 600 or 700 pages. We could print that

13 out or, perhaps if the Defence would prefer, I might see about obtaining

14 that electronically for them.

15 MR. OSTOJIC: We'll accept it in any form. Electronically would

16 be preferred, but whichever form is available.

17 MR. KOUMJIAN: I'll try to have that available, and I'll call the

18 Defence tomorrow whether we can pass that on electronically.

19 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: Thank you. Let's call tomorrow labour day,

20 meeting the parties, try to overcome obstacles, to find some resolutions

21 on problems in preparation of the statement, the testimony, and the

22 cross-examination of Mr. Inayat, which will be held on Monday.

23 MR. KOUMJIAN: One more document arriving. That's the French

24 translation of the diagram is now available, of the diagram of the

25 Keraterm camp. That's S277C.

1 JUDGE SCHOMBURG: The trial stays adjourned until Monday, 9.30.

2 --- Whereupon the hearing adjourned at 4.01 p.m.,

3 to be reconvened on Monday, the 2nd day of

4 September, 2002, at 9.30 a.m.

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