Page 66
1 Friday, 4 April 2003
2 [Further Appearance]
3 [Open session]
4 [The accused entered court]
5 --- Upon commencing at 10.02 a.m.
6 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Good morning to everyone. I
7 would first of all like to ask Madam Registrar to call the case number.
8 THE REGISTRAR: Good morning, Your Honour. This is the case
9 number, IT-96-23/2-PT, the Prosecutor versus Radovan Stankovic.
10 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. I'm now going to
11 address the parties for the appearances for the sake of the transcript.
12 First of all, it's the turn of the Prosecution, please.
13 MR. WUBBEN: Good morning, Your Honour.
14 THE INTERPRETER: Microphone, please.
15 MR. WUBBEN: My name is Jan Wubben, senior trial attorney on
16 behalf of the Prosecution team. At my side, Daryl Mundis, attorney, and
17 Djurdja Mirkovic, case manager.
18 JUDGE EL MAHDI: Thank you very much.
19 [Interpretation] And now I will turn to Defence counsel, please.
20 MR. RADOVIC: [Interpretation] I am Milenko Radovic from Foca. I
21 am Defence counsel for Mr. Radovan Stankovic.
22 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you very much.
23 Pursuant to the order of the 12th of March, 2003, the hearing of
24 today will be dedicated to a further Initial Appearance of the accused,
25 further to the modification of the amendment -- of the indictment by the
Page 67
1 Trial Chamber dated the 28th of February, 2003. I'd like to remind the
2 parties that during the last appearance held on the 6th of March, 2003 and
3 having read the indictment, the accused stated that he wasn't in a
4 position to express himself with regard to the indictment. He was,
5 therefore, granted 30 days in order to enter a plea pursuant to Rule 62 of
6 the rules.
7 This hearing will, therefore, be dedicated to the further Initial
8 Appearance of the accused. I would also like to remind you that following
9 objections made by the Defence on the 12th of March, 2003 with regard to
10 the amended indictment, the Trial Chamber rendered its decision dated the
11 2nd of April, 2003, and its objections were rejected by the Trial Chamber.
12 I would now like to turn to Mr. Stankovic. Good day. And I would
13 like to ask you: Are you ready --
14 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Good day.
15 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. I would like to ask
16 you whether you are ready to enter a plea for each count today, and I
17 would like to remind you that this hearing is dedicated to -- concerns
18 entering a plea of guilty or not guilty, regardless of all the Defence
19 case, all the Defence issues that you could develop and expand on before
20 this Trial Chamber.
21 Yes, please. Go ahead.
22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Yes, I do want to enter a plea
23 today. But Mr. El Mahdi, Judge el, why should I enter a plea on two
24 occasions, since I have already entered a plea with regard that this
25 indictment when I appeared for the first time last year? I don't see
Page 68
1 anything new here. You see here it says, "Enslavement and rape" here.
2 "FWS-75, -87 -- A.S. -- J.B., J.G., and other women in Karaman's house."
3 And then it says the, "Expanded indictment --"
4 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Mr. Stankovic, just a minute,
5 please. Just a minute. Could you please follow me. I am now asking
6 you - and this is my sole question - whether you're going to enter a plea
7 for each count, a plea of guilty or not guilty. These counts are going to
8 be read out to you, only the counts because you have become very familiar
9 with the indictment that was read out to you in its entirety at the last
10 hearing. So please, in accordance with the rules, I would like to ask
11 Madam Registrar now to read out each count and only each count and you
12 should enter a plea of guilty or not guilty. Please.
13 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Could I just express what my
14 position is with regard to the entire indictment? Could I just enter a
15 plea with regard to the entire indictment, rather than go through each
16 count individually?
17 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] So that I can be sure that you
18 have understood the significance of your plea and to be sure that for each
19 count you are entering a plea that you consider to be the right one, the
20 result would be the same. But according to the rules, if you -- we should
21 read out each count and then you can enter the plea that you like. That's
22 how we should proceed.
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Mr. El Mahdi, I don't want to
24 express my position, enter a plea with regard to the amended indictment at
25 all. I am guilty because I am a Serb. That is something that I already
Page 69
1 said at the last appearance, the last time I had to enter a plea. I am
2 guilty because I am a Serb and because I was defending my Serbian people
3 and my state, the Greater Serbia which was formerly and legally called
4 Yugoslavia, and as such was internationally recognised.
5 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Mr. Stankovic, I'm going to
6 repeat this. This is a matter for Defence. And I would like you to
7 follow carefully, when each count is being read out, and you are to enter
8 a plea having given this due consideration. Please do not be impulsive,
9 do not be rash, reflect about the matter, and enter the plea that you
10 consider to be the right one in your opinion. So I'm going to ask
11 Madam Registrar to read out --
12 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] Excuse me. Do I have the right not
13 to express a position, not to enter a plea with regard to the indictment?
14 JUDGE EL MAHDI: Madam Registrar, please proceed.
15 THE REGISTRAR: Count --
16 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] You are absolutely right. You
17 can enter any plea that you like.
18 Madam Registrar, could you please read out the counts in the
19 indictment.
20 THE REGISTRAR: Count 1: Enslavement, a crime against humanity
21 punishable under Article 5(c) of the Statute of the Tribunal.
22 JUDGE EL MAHDI: How do you plea, Mr. Stankovic?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't want to enter a plea with
24 regard to this indictment.
25 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Very well. Very well. I would
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1 like to inform you that if you don't enter a plea, it will be my duty, I
2 will be obliged, to enter a plea of not guilty in your name. That is what
3 is specified in the rules.
4 So the second count, please, Madam Registrar.
5 THE REGISTRAR: Count 2: Rape. Rape, a crime against humanity
6 punishable under Article 5(g) of the Statute of the Tribunal.
7 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] How do you plea, Mr. Stankovic?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't want to enter a plea.
9 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you.
10 Yes, madam, please proceed.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Count 3: Rape. Rape, a violation of the laws or
12 customs of war, punishable under Article 3 of the Statute of the Tribunal.
13 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. Stankovic, how do you
14 plea?
15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't want to enter a plea.
16 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Madam, the fourth count, please.
17 THE REGISTRAR: Count 4: Outrages upon personal dignity, a
18 violation of the laws or customs of war, punishable under Article 3 of the
19 Statute of the Tribunal.
20 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes, Mr. Stankovic, how do you
21 plea, please?
22 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't want to enter a plea.
23 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Madam, please
24 proceed.
25 THE REGISTRAR: Count 5: Enslavement, a crime against humanity
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1 punishable under Article 5(c) of the Statute of the Tribunal.
2 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes. Mr. Stankovic, how do you
3 plea?
4 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] This is something that you read out
5 in count 1 already, so I would have to enter a plea on two occasions with
6 regard to the same indictment. That's what I said a minute ago.
7 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] But please, how do you plea?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I don't want to enter a plea.
9 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Madam Registrar,
10 please proceed.
11 THE REGISTRAR: Count 6: Rape, a crime against humanity
12 punishable under Article 5(g) of the Statute of the Tribunal.
13 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes. Mr. Stankovic, how do you
14 plea?
15 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] This is also repetition, and I don't
16 want to enter a plea.
17 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Yes, Madam Registrar,
18 please proceed.
19 THE REGISTRAR: Count 7: Rape, a violation of the laws or customs
20 of war, punishable under Article 3 of the Statute of the Tribunal.
21 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Mr. Stankovic, how do you plea,
22 please?
23 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have already expressed my
24 position. I did so a minute ago. And I don't want to express it again.
25 I don't want to enter a plea again.
Page 73
1 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes. Thank you.
2 Madam Registrar.
3 THE REGISTRAR: Count 8: Outrages upon personal dignity, a
4 violation of the laws and customs of war, punishable under Article 3 of
5 the Statute of the Tribunal.
6 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Yes. Mr. Stankovic, how do you
7 plea?
8 THE ACCUSED: [Interpretation] I have already stated what my
9 position is and I won't repeat it. I won't enter a plea.
10 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Very well then. So
11 in your name and according to Rule 62 of the Rules of Procedure and
12 Evidence, I will enter a plea of not guilty and I will do so in your name.
13 I would like to ask Madam Registrar to go into private session,
14 please.
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8 [Open session]
9 JUDGE EL MAHDI: [Interpretation] Thank you. Thank you very much.
10 I do not think that there is anything else on this agenda, and
11 therefore, the session is adjourned. Thank you very much.
12 --- Whereupon the Further Appearance adjourned at
13 10.31 a.m.
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